OT: Jury Convicts Libby On Four of Five Counts

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"Michelle Malkin"
Date:	06 Mar 2007 11:24:36 AM
Object:	OT: Jury Convicts Libby On Four of Five Counts

Jury convicts Libby on four of five charges
Verdict in CIA leak case reached on 10th day of deliberations
BREAKING NEWS
AP Associated Press
Updated: 2 minutes ago
WASHINGTON - Former White House aide I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby was convicted
Tuesday of obstruction, perjury and lying to the FBI in an investigation
into the leak of a CIA operative's identity.
Libby, the former chief of staff to Vice President ***** Cheney, was accused
of lying and obstructing the investigation into the 2003 leak of CIA
operative Valerie Plame's identity to reporters.
He was acquitted of one count of lying to the FBI.
The verdict came on the 10th day of deliberations by a panel of seven women
and four men. The announcement was made by Randall Samborn, a spokesman for
special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald. It was read in the courtroom where
jurors heard 19 witnesses during the five-week trial.
Libby is the only person charged in the case, which grew out of an
investigation into the 2003 leak of CIA operative Valerie Plame's identity.
Plame is married to former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, who emerged in mid-2003
as an outspoken critic of the Bush administration's case for the Iraq war.
Fitzgerald says Libby learned about Plame from Cheney and other officials in
June 2003 and relayed it to reporters. Libby's defense team argued that
Libby recalled his conversations to the best of his ability. Any
inaccuracies he made to the FBI or a federal grand jury were the result of a
faulty memory, attorneys said.
Key to several charges were Libby's recollections of conversations he had
with Tim Russert of NBC's "Meet the Press" and former Time magazine reporter
Matt Cooper.
Following are the individual charges and their corresponding verdicts:
a.. Obstruction of Justice: GUILTY
b.. False statements to FBI investigators (about Russert conversation):
GUILTY
c.. False statement to FBI investigators (about Cooper conversation): NOT
GUILTY
d.. Perjury to the Grand Jury (about Tim Russert conversation): GUILTY
e.. Perjury to the Grand Jury (about the Matt Cooper conversation): GUILTY
Please check back for more on this developing story
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: OT: Jury Convicts Libby On Four of Five Counts	06 Mar 2007 12:28:30 PM

"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote in
news:O4CdnR8mwLJKPnDYnZ2dnUVZ_rOqnZ2d@comcast.com:
Consider what we now know about the case:
1. Richard Armitage was the leaker. He and Colin Powell were disloyal to
the President by not revealing this fact immediately.
2. Joe Wilson lied to the press and to the nation about the President's
Niger Yellowcake claim. In fact his report *supported* the claim that
Saddam was seeking to purchase Yellowcake from Niger, since their only
other exports were of no economic value to Iraq.
3. Joe Wilson also lied when he claimed that his wife was the victim of an
Administration plot to retaliate against him.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"The Bush critics' position is that we must believe without reservation or
criticism any intelligence that can be used to argue against military
action and that we should never believe any intelligence, however
plausible, that can be used to argue for it. That's not very
intelligent." - Michael Barone
.

User: "Geoff"
Title: Re: OT: Jury Convicts Libby On Four of Five Counts	06 Mar 2007 02:24:44 PM

"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns98EB89A4566C5freddybear@194.177.96.26...

What makes you so sure that Bush didn't know? Certainly Cheney did and since
he's the man behind the curtain, that belies your tantrum about disloyalty.

2. Joe Wilson lied to the press and to the nation about the President's
Niger Yellowcake claim. In fact his report *supported* the claim that
Saddam was seeking to purchase Yellowcake from Niger, since their only
other exports were of no economic value to Iraq.

Wow, I didn't know that. In fact, this is the first time I've heard anything
like this. I was under the impression that his report debinked the
administration's claims. Can you show me where I can find this?

3. Joe Wilson also lied when he claimed that his wife was the victim of an
Administration plot to retaliate against him.

That has not been unequivocally determined as far as I know. This trial
would seem to support that they were targeted for revenge.
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: OT: Jury Convicts Libby On Four of Five Counts	06 Mar 2007 06:37:03 PM

"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:cIudnf2rXqyRU3DYnZ2dnUVZ_ragnZ2d@giganews.com:

"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns98EB89A4566C5freddybear@194.177.96.26...

What makes you so sure that Bush didn't know? Certainly Cheney did and
since he's the man behind the curtain, that belies your tantrum about
disloyalty.

If Bush knew he would have ended the whole farce years ago. So would
Cheney.

2. Joe Wilson lied to the press and to the nation about the
President's Niger Yellowcake claim. In fact his report *supported*
the claim that Saddam was seeking to purchase Yellowcake from Niger,
since their only other exports were of no economic value to Iraq.

Wow, I didn't know that. In fact, this is the first time I've heard
anything like this. I was under the impression that his report
debinked the administration's claims. Can you show me where I can find
this?

It's in the 9/11 Commission report. It's been public knowledge for
*years*.

3. Joe Wilson also lied when he claimed that his wife was the victim
of an Administration plot to retaliate against him.

That has not been unequivocally determined as far as I know. This
trial would seem to support that they were targeted for revenge.

No, it wouldn't. Fitz already said that there was no crime. He won't be
bringing any further charges.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"The Bush critics' position is that we must believe without reservation
or criticism any intelligence that can be used to argue against military
action and that we should never believe any intelligence, however
plausible, that can be used to argue for it. That's not very
intelligent." - Michael Barone
.

User: "A. Bolmarcich"
Title: Re: OT: Jury Convicts Libby On Four of Five Counts	07 Mar 2007 10:53:12 AM

On 2007-03-07, Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:cIudnf2rXqyRU3DYnZ2dnUVZ_ragnZ2d@giganews.com:

"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns98EB89A4566C5freddybear@194.177.96.26...

[snip]

2. Joe Wilson lied to the press and to the nation about the
President's Niger Yellowcake claim. In fact his report *supported*
the claim that Saddam was seeking to purchase Yellowcake from Niger,
since their only other exports were of no economic value to Iraq.

Wow, I didn't know that. In fact, this is the first time I've heard
anything like this. I was under the impression that his report
debinked the administration's claims. Can you show me where I can find
this?

It's in the 9/11 Commission report. It's been public knowledge for
*years*.

Exactly where is it in the 9/11 Commission report? A page number in
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/pdf/fullreport.pdf would be sufficient.
The report does not mention Joseph Wilson. The report does not
mention yellowcake.
The report mentions obtaining uranium on page 60:
"His [Bin Ladin's] business aides received word that a Sudanese
military officer who had been a member of the previous government
cabinet was offering to sell weapons-grade uranium. After a number
of contacts were made through intermediaries, the officer set the
price at $1.5 million, which did not deter Bin Ladin. Al Qaeda
representatives asked to inspect the uranium and were shown a
cylinder about 3 feet long, and one thought he could pronounce it
genuine. Al Qaeda apparently purchased the cylinder, then
discovered it to be bogus."
The reports mentions Niger only on page 58 as being one of the
countries with extremist groups with which al Qaeda had established
cooperative relationships.
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: OT: Jury Convicts Libby On Four of Five Counts	07 Mar 2007 11:14:35 AM

"A. Bolmarcich" <aggedor@earl-grey.cloud9.net> wrote in
news:slrneutrfn.170n.aggedor@earl-grey.cloud9.net:

On 2007-03-07, Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:cIudnf2rXqyRU3DYnZ2dnUVZ_ragnZ2d@giganews.com:

"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns98EB89A4566C5freddybear@194.177.96.26...

[snip]

2. Joe Wilson lied to the press and to the nation about the
President's Niger Yellowcake claim. In fact his report *supported*
the claim that Saddam was seeking to purchase Yellowcake from

Niger,

since their only other exports were of no economic value to Iraq.

Wow, I didn't know that. In fact, this is the first time I've heard
anything like this. I was under the impression that his report
debinked the administration's claims. Can you show me where I can

find

this?

It's in the 9/11 Commission report. It's been public knowledge for
*years*.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39834-2004Jul9.html

The report mentions obtaining uranium on page 60:

"His [Bin Ladin's] business aides received word that a Sudanese
military officer who had been a member of the previous government
cabinet was offering to sell weapons-grade uranium. After a number
of contacts were made through intermediaries, the officer set the
price at $1.5 million, which did not deter Bin Ladin. Al Qaeda
representatives asked to inspect the uranium and were shown a
cylinder about 3 feet long, and one thought he could pronounce it
genuine. Al Qaeda apparently purchased the cylinder, then
discovered it to be bogus."

The reports mentions Niger only on page 58 as being one of the
countries with extremist groups with which al Qaeda had established
cooperative relationships.

--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"The Bush critics' position is that we must believe without reservation
or criticism any intelligence that can be used to argue against military
action and that we should never believe any intelligence, however
plausible, that can be used to argue for it. That's not very
intelligent." - Michael Barone
.

User: "A. Bolmarcich"
Title: Re: OT: Jury Convicts Libby On Four of Five Counts	07 Mar 2007 12:01:39 PM

On 2007-03-07, Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

"A. Bolmarcich" <aggedor@earl-grey.cloud9.net> wrote in
news:slrneutrfn.170n.aggedor@earl-grey.cloud9.net:

On 2007-03-07, Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:cIudnf2rXqyRU3DYnZ2dnUVZ_ragnZ2d@giganews.com:

"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns98EB89A4566C5freddybear@194.177.96.26...

[snip]

2. Joe Wilson lied to the press and to the nation about the
President's Niger Yellowcake claim. In fact his report *supported*
the claim that Saddam was seeking to purchase Yellowcake from

Niger,

since their only other exports were of no economic value to Iraq.

Wow, I didn't know that. In fact, this is the first time I've heard
anything like this. I was under the impression that his report
debinked the administration's claims. Can you show me where I can

find

this?

It's in the 9/11 Commission report. It's been public knowledge for
*years*.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39834-2004Jul9.html

The article at that URL does not provided page numbers or quotes from
the 9/11 Commision report. The article is about the Senate Select
Committee on Intelligence's Report on the U.S. Intelligence Community's
Preware Assessment of Iraq.
I'll repeat my question, where in the 9/11 Commission report is the
the support for the claim that "Joe Wilson lied to the press and to the
nation about the President's Niger Yellowcake claim. In fact his report
*supported* the claim that Saddam was seeking to purchase Yellowcake
from Niger, since their only other exports were of no economic value to
Iraq."?
According to the article: "Wilson's reports to the CIA added to the
evidence that Iraq may have tried to buy uranium in Niger, although
officials at the State Department remained highly skeptical, the
report said."
That is from Conclusion 13 of the Senate Select Committee on
Intelligence's report, the end of which is: "State Department Bureau
of Intelligence and Research (INR) anaylsts believed that the report
supported their assessment that Niger was unlikely to be willing or
able to sell uranium to Iraq."
Conclusion 16 of the report was: "The language fo the October 2002
National Intelligence Estimate that 'Iraq also began vigorously trying
to procure uranium ore and yellowcake' overstated what the Intelligence
Community knew about Iraq's possible procurement attempts."
Those interested should read the Niger section of the report available
at http://www.gpoaccess.gov/serialset/creports/pdf/s108-301/sec2.pdf
[snip]
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: OT: Jury Convicts Libby On Four of Five Counts	07 Mar 2007 01:11:09 PM

"A. Bolmarcich" <aggedor@earl-grey.cloud9.net> wrote in
news:slrneutvg3.170n.aggedor@earl-grey.cloud9.net:

On 2007-03-07, Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

"A. Bolmarcich" <aggedor@earl-grey.cloud9.net> wrote in
news:slrneutrfn.170n.aggedor@earl-grey.cloud9.net:

On 2007-03-07, Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:cIudnf2rXqyRU3DYnZ2dnUVZ_ragnZ2d@giganews.com:

"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns98EB89A4566C5freddybear@194.177.96.26...

[snip]

2. Joe Wilson lied to the press and to the nation about the
President's Niger Yellowcake claim. In fact his report
*supported* the claim that Saddam was seeking to purchase
Yellowcake from

Niger,

since their only other exports were of no economic value to Iraq.

Wow, I didn't know that. In fact, this is the first time I've
heard anything like this. I was under the impression that his
report debinked the administration's claims. Can you show me where
I can

find

this?

It's in the 9/11 Commission report. It's been public knowledge for
*years*.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39834-2004Jul9.html

My mistake.

I'll repeat my question, where in the 9/11 Commission report is the
the support for the claim that "Joe Wilson lied to the press and to
the nation about the President's Niger Yellowcake claim. In fact his
report *supported* the claim that Saddam was seeking to purchase
Yellowcake from Niger, since their only other exports were of no
economic value to Iraq."?

According to the article: "Wilson's reports to the CIA added to the
evidence that Iraq may have tried to buy uranium in Niger, although
officials at the State Department remained highly skeptical, the
report said."

I must say that you've got the selective quoting down.
"Wilson's assertions -- both about what he found in Niger and what the
Bush administration did with the information -- were undermined
yesterday in a bipartisan Senate intelligence committee report.
The panel found that Wilson's report, rather than debunking intelligence
about purported uranium sales to Iraq, as he has said, bolstered the
case for most intelligence analysts. And contrary to Wilson's assertions
and even the government's previous statements, the CIA did not tell the
White House it had qualms about the reliability of the Africa
intelligence that made its way into 16 fateful words in President Bush's
January 2003 State of the Union address.
Yesterday's report said that whether Iraq sought to buy lightly enriched
"yellowcake" uranium from Niger is one of the few bits of prewar
intelligence that remains an open question. Much of the rest of the
intelligence suggesting a buildup of weapons of mass destruction was
unfounded, the report said.
The report turns a harsh spotlight on what Wilson has said about his
role in gathering prewar intelligence, most pointedly by asserting that
his wife, CIA employee Valerie Plame, recommended him.
Plame's role could be significant in an ongoing investigation into
whether a crime was committed when her name and employment were
disclosed to reporters last summer.
Administration officials told columnist Robert D. Novak then that
Wilson, a partisan critic of Bush's foreign policy, was sent to Niger at
the suggestion of Plame, who worked in the nonproliferation unit at CIA.
The disclosure of Plame's identity, which was classified, led to an
investigation into who leaked her name.
The report may bolster the rationale that administration officials
provided the information not to intentionally expose an undercover CIA
employee, but to call into question Wilson's bona fides as an
investigator into trafficking of weapons of mass destruction. To charge
anyone with a crime, prosecutors need evidence that exposure of a covert
officer was intentional."
and...
"The report also said Wilson provided misleading information to The
Washington Post last June. He said then that he concluded the Niger
intelligence was based on documents that had clearly been forged because
"the dates were wrong and the names were wrong."
"Committee staff asked how the former ambassador could have come to the
conclusion that the 'dates were wrong and the names were wrong' when he
had never seen the CIA reports and had no knowledge of what names and
dates were in the reports," the Senate panel said. Wilson told the panel
he may have been confused and may have "misspoken" to reporters. The
documents -- purported sales agreements between Niger and Iraq -- were
not in U.S. hands until eight months after Wilson made his trip to
Niger."

That is from Conclusion 13 of the Senate Select Committee on
Intelligence's report, the end of which is: "State Department Bureau
of Intelligence and Research (INR) anaylsts believed that the report
supported their assessment that Niger was unlikely to be willing or
able to sell uranium to Iraq."

Conclusion 16 of the report was: "The language fo the October 2002
National Intelligence Estimate that 'Iraq also began vigorously trying
to procure uranium ore and yellowcake' overstated what the
Intelligence Community knew about Iraq's possible procurement
attempts."

"Still, it was the CIA that bore the brunt of the criticism of the Niger
intelligence. The panel found that the CIA has not fully investigated
possible efforts by Iraq to buy uranium in Niger to this day, citing
reports from a foreign service and the U.S. Navy about uranium from
Niger destined for Iraq and stored in a warehouse in Benin."

Those interested should read the Niger section of the report available
at http://www.gpoaccess.gov/serialset/creports/pdf/s108-301/sec2.pdf

When your case is as flimsy as yours is, Bolmarcich, you might as well
not even bother trying to spin it. Selective quoting from publicly
available material just won't cut it. The MSM can't hide the source
material any more.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"The Bush critics' position is that we must believe without reservation
or criticism any intelligence that can be used to argue against military
action and that we should never believe any intelligence, however
plausible, that can be used to argue for it. That's not very
intelligent." - Michael Barone
.

User: "A. Bolmarcich"
Title: Re: OT: Jury Convicts Libby On Four of Five Counts	07 Mar 2007 02:10:43 PM

On 2007-03-07, Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
[snip]

Here is a recap.
You claimed that "Joe Wilson lied to the press and to the nation about
the President's Niger Yellowcake claim. In fact his report *supported*
the claim that Saddam was seeking to purchase Yellowcake from Niger,
since their only other exports were of no economic value to Iraq."
"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> asked: "Can you show me where I can
find this?". You replied: "It's in the 9/11 Commission report. It's
been public knowledge for *years*."
My involvement in this thread began when I asked: "Exactly where is
it in the 9/11 Commission report? A page number in
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/pdf/fullreport.pdf would be sufficient."
You replied with the URL
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39834-2004Jul9.html
I replied that the article was not about the 9/11 Commission report but
about the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence's Report on the U.S.
Intelligence Community's Preware Assessment of Iraq. If I wanted to
"spin it" I suppose that I could have called it the Republican
controlled Senate committee.
You now appear to realize the the 9/11 Commission does not support
your claim. As I previously wrote: "Those interested should read the
Niger section of the report available at
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/serialset/creports/pdf/s108-301/sec2.pdf".
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: OT: Jury Convicts Libby On Four of Five Counts	07 Mar 2007 06:04:45 PM

"A. Bolmarcich" <aggedor@earl-grey.cloud9.net> wrote in
news:slrneuu723.1bra.aggedor@earl-grey.cloud9.net:

On 2007-03-07, Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
[snip]

Here is a recap.

<snip>
You're pathetic.
Not only do you not acknowledge that I admitted my mistake, you don't
acknowledge your *own* mistakes. You're a gutless piece of *****,
Bolmarcich.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"The Bush critics' position is that we must believe without reservation or
criticism any intelligence that can be used to argue against military
action and that we should never believe any intelligence, however
plausible, that can be used to argue for it. That's not very
intelligent." - Michael Barone
.

User: "Free Lunch"
Title: Re: OT: Jury Convicts Libby On Four of Five Counts	06 Mar 2007 06:59:22 PM

On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 01:37:03 +0100 (CET), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns98EBC821AFC4Ffreddybear@194.177.96.26>:

"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in
news:cIudnf2rXqyRU3DYnZ2dnUVZ_ragnZ2d@giganews.com:

"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns98EB89A4566C5freddybear@194.177.96.26...

What makes you so sure that Bush didn't know? Certainly Cheney did and
since he's the man behind the curtain, that belies your tantrum about
disloyalty.

If Bush knew he would have ended the whole farce years ago. So would
Cheney.

Have you really ever seen Bush do _anything_ to give you confidence that
he has a clue?

2. Joe Wilson lied to the press and to the nation about the
President's Niger Yellowcake claim. In fact his report *supported*
the claim that Saddam was seeking to purchase Yellowcake from Niger,
since their only other exports were of no economic value to Iraq.

Wow, I didn't know that. In fact, this is the first time I've heard
anything like this. I was under the impression that his report
debinked the administration's claims. Can you show me where I can find
this?

It's in the 9/11 Commission report. It's been public knowledge for
*years*.

That would be the report that Bush blew off, much like he blew off the
Iraq Study Group.

3. Joe Wilson also lied when he claimed that his wife was the victim
of an Administration plot to retaliate against him.

That has not been unequivocally determined as far as I know. This
trial would seem to support that they were targeted for revenge.

No, it wouldn't. Fitz already said that there was no crime. He won't be
bringing any further charges.

That's almost what he said.
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: OT: Jury Convicts Libby On Four of Five Counts	07 Mar 2007 08:04:12 AM

Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in
news:lg3su2pn1vj1cj80cf56q916rt9rar66fe@4ax.com:
<snip the complete non-answers>

2. Joe Wilson lied to the press and to the nation about the
President's Niger Yellowcake claim. In fact his report *supported*
the claim that Saddam was seeking to purchase Yellowcake from
Niger, since their only other exports were of no economic value to
Iraq.

Wow, I didn't know that. In fact, this is the first time I've heard
anything like this. I was under the impression that his report
debinked the administration's claims. Can you show me where I can
find this?

It's in the 9/11 Commission report. It's been public knowledge for
*years*.

That would be the report that Bush blew off, much like he blew off the
Iraq Study Group.

And that would be *YOU* blowing it off too.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"The Bush critics' position is that we must believe without reservation
or criticism any intelligence that can be used to argue against military
action and that we should never believe any intelligence, however
plausible, that can be used to argue for it. That's not very
intelligent." - Michael Barone
.

User: "Free Lunch"
Title: Re: OT: Jury Convicts Libby On Four of Five Counts	07 Mar 2007 06:11:15 PM

On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 15:04:12 +0100 (CET), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns98EC5CD7CCAF1freddybear@194.177.96.26>:

Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in
news:lg3su2pn1vj1cj80cf56q916rt9rar66fe@4ax.com:

<snip the complete non-answers>

2. Joe Wilson lied to the press and to the nation about the
President's Niger Yellowcake claim. In fact his report *supported*
the claim that Saddam was seeking to purchase Yellowcake from
Niger, since their only other exports were of no economic value to
Iraq.

Wow, I didn't know that. In fact, this is the first time I've heard
anything like this. I was under the impression that his report
debinked the administration's claims. Can you show me where I can
find this?

It's in the 9/11 Commission report. It's been public knowledge for
*years*.

That would be the report that Bush blew off, much like he blew off the
Iraq Study Group.

And that would be *YOU* blowing it off too.

I like Bush's mock anger about how our soldiers are treated at various
Army hospitals. It appears that the only anger he has is that his
disastrous foray into outsourcing was made available for all to see.
George W Bush has shown that he does not give a damn about our soldiers.
Support the troops? Impeach Bush.
Hate the troops? Vote Republican.
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: OT: Jury Convicts Libby On Four of Five Counts	07 Mar 2007 06:58:21 PM

Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in
news:n0luu2ptqflvnmiqaen3scck6nnipk7g2j@4ax.com:

On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 15:04:12 +0100 (CET), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns98EC5CD7CCAF1freddybear@194.177.96.26>:

Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in
news:lg3su2pn1vj1cj80cf56q916rt9rar66fe@4ax.com:

<snip the complete non-answers>

2. Joe Wilson lied to the press and to the nation about the
President's Niger Yellowcake claim. In fact his report
*supported* the claim that Saddam was seeking to purchase
Yellowcake from Niger, since their only other exports were of no
economic value to Iraq.

Wow, I didn't know that. In fact, this is the first time I've
heard anything like this. I was under the impression that his
report debinked the administration's claims. Can you show me where
I can find this?

It's in the 9/11 Commission report. It's been public knowledge for
*years*.

That would be the report that Bush blew off, much like he blew off
the Iraq Study Group.

And that would be *YOU* blowing it off too.

Oh, I must reiterate my apology, that was the First Senate Intelligence
Commitee report, not the 9/11 Commission report. My mistake.

I like Bush's mock anger about how our soldiers are treated at various
Army hospitals. It appears that the only anger he has is that his
disastrous foray into outsourcing was made available for all to see.
George W Bush has shown that he does not give a damn about our
soldiers. Support the troops? Impeach Bush.

Hate the troops? Vote Republican.

Hate America? Vote Democrat.
"Outsourcing" wasn't the problem, it's just a convenient excuse for the
blame-shifters.
Lunchie, what's needed is to throw out the entire Federal bureaucracy,
top to bottom. FEMA, State, CIA, they all put more priority on playing
CYA and turf wars than in doing their jobs right, and then "blame
somebody else" is the name of the game when the hammer comes down.
You can complain about how Bush is responsible all you want, but if you
don't purge the bureaucrats, Bush's successor will inherit the same
impossible unwieldy mess. Bush won't be there after 2008 anyway.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"The Bush critics' position is that we must believe without reservation
or criticism any intelligence that can be used to argue against military
action and that we should never believe any intelligence, however
plausible, that can be used to argue for it. That's not very
intelligent." - Michael Barone
.

User: "Free Lunch"
Title: Re: OT: Jury Convicts Libby On Four of Five Counts	07 Mar 2007 07:05:39 PM

On Thu, 8 Mar 2007 01:58:21 +0100 (CET), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns98ECCBC28E367freddybear@194.177.96.26>:

Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in
news:n0luu2ptqflvnmiqaen3scck6nnipk7g2j@4ax.com:

On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 15:04:12 +0100 (CET), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns98EC5CD7CCAF1freddybear@194.177.96.26>:

Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in
news:lg3su2pn1vj1cj80cf56q916rt9rar66fe@4ax.com:

<snip the complete non-answers>

2. Joe Wilson lied to the press and to the nation about the
President's Niger Yellowcake claim. In fact his report
*supported* the claim that Saddam was seeking to purchase
Yellowcake from Niger, since their only other exports were of no
economic value to Iraq.

Wow, I didn't know that. In fact, this is the first time I've
heard anything like this. I was under the impression that his
report debinked the administration's claims. Can you show me where
I can find this?

It's in the 9/11 Commission report. It's been public knowledge for
*years*.

That would be the report that Bush blew off, much like he blew off
the Iraq Study Group.

And that would be *YOU* blowing it off too.

Oh, I must reiterate my apology, that was the First Senate Intelligence
Commitee report, not the 9/11 Commission report. My mistake.

I like Bush's mock anger about how our soldiers are treated at various
Army hospitals. It appears that the only anger he has is that his
disastrous foray into outsourcing was made available for all to see.
George W Bush has shown that he does not give a damn about our
soldiers. Support the troops? Impeach Bush.

Hate the troops? Vote Republican.

Democrats seem capable of running the Federal bureaucracy. Too bad
Republicans are unable to do it.
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: OT: Jury Convicts Libby On Four of Five Counts	07 Mar 2007 07:43:58 PM

Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in
news:5aouu2p22ltq2p8quuv42ometl1gpjmut6@4ax.com:

On Thu, 8 Mar 2007 01:58:21 +0100 (CET), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns98ECCBC28E367freddybear@194.177.96.26>:

Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in
news:n0luu2ptqflvnmiqaen3scck6nnipk7g2j@4ax.com:

On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 15:04:12 +0100 (CET), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns98EC5CD7CCAF1freddybear@194.177.96.26>:

Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote in
news:lg3su2pn1vj1cj80cf56q916rt9rar66fe@4ax.com:

<snip the complete non-answers>

2. Joe Wilson lied to the press and to the nation about the
President's Niger Yellowcake claim. In fact his report
*supported* the claim that Saddam was seeking to purchase
Yellowcake from Niger, since their only other exports were of
no economic value to Iraq.

Wow, I didn't know that. In fact, this is the first time I've
heard anything like this. I was under the impression that his
report debinked the administration's claims. Can you show me
where I can find this?

It's in the 9/11 Commission report. It's been public knowledge for
*years*.

That would be the report that Bush blew off, much like he blew off
the Iraq Study Group.

And that would be *YOU* blowing it off too.

Oh, I must reiterate my apology, that was the First Senate
Intelligence Commitee report, not the 9/11 Commission report. My
mistake.

I like Bush's mock anger about how our soldiers are treated at
various Army hospitals. It appears that the only anger he has is
that his disastrous foray into outsourcing was made available for
all to see. George W Bush has shown that he does not give a damn
about our soldiers. Support the troops? Impeach Bush.

Hate the troops? Vote Republican.

Democrats seem capable of running the Federal bureaucracy. Too bad
Republicans are unable to do it.

Yeah, the media doesn't get all huffy when Clinton fires all the Federal
prosecutors, but let Bush fire just a few and they get all "conspiracy
theory" on him. Same with every other department.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"The Bush critics' position is that we must believe without reservation
or criticism any intelligence that can be used to argue against military
action and that we should never believe any intelligence, however
plausible, that can be used to argue for it. That's not very
intelligent." - Michael Barone
.

User: "Dave Fritzinger"
Title: Re: OT: Jury Convicts Libby On Four of Five Counts	07 Mar 2007 07:51:10 PM

On Mar 7, 3:43 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com> wrote:

Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote innews:5aouu2p22ltq2p8quuv42ometl1gpjmut6@4ax.com:

On Thu, 8 Mar 2007 01:58:21 +0100 (CET), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns98ECCBC28E367freddyb...@194.177.96.26>:

Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote in
news:n0luu2ptqflvnmiqaen3scck6nnipk7g2j@4ax.com:

On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 15:04:12 +0100 (CET), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns98EC5CD7CCAF1freddyb...@194.177.96.26>:

Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote in
news:lg3su2pn1vj1cj80cf56q916rt9rar66fe@4ax.com:

2. Joe Wilson lied to the press and to the nation about the
President's Niger Yellowcake claim. In fact his report
*supported* the claim that Saddam was seeking to purchase
Yellowcake from Niger, since their only other exports were of
no economic value to Iraq.

Wow, I didn't know that. In fact, this is the first time I've
heard anything like this. I was under the impression that his
report debinked the administration's claims. Can you show me
where I can find this?

It's in the 9/11 Commission report. It's been public knowledge for
*years*.

That would be the report that Bush blew off, much like he blew off
the Iraq Study Group.

And that would be *YOU* blowing it off too.

Oh, I must reiterate my apology, that was the First Senate
Intelligence Commitee report, not the 9/11 Commission report. My
mistake.

I like Bush's mock anger about how our soldiers are treated at
various Army hospitals. It appears that the only anger he has is
that his disastrous foray into outsourcing was made available for
all to see. George W Bush has shown that he does not give a damn
about our soldiers. Support the troops? Impeach Bush.

Hate the troops? Vote Republican.

Hate America? Vote Democrat.

"Outsourcing" wasn't the problem, it's just a convenient excuse for
the blame-shifters.

Lunchie, what's needed is to throw out the entire Federal bureaucracy,
top to bottom. FEMA, State, CIA, they all put more priority on playing
CYA and turf wars than in doing their jobs right, and then "blame
somebody else" is the name of the game when the hammer comes down.

You can complain about how Bush is responsible all you want, but if
you don't purge the bureaucrats, Bush's successor will inherit the
same impossible unwieldy mess. Bush won't be there after 2008 anyway.

Democrats seem capable of running the Federal bureaucracy. Too bad
Republicans are unable to do it.

Yeah, the media doesn't get all huffy when Clinton fires all the Federal
prosecutors, but let Bush fire just a few and they get all "conspiracy
theory" on him. Same with every other department.

Couple of questions for you, Fred.
1. When did Clinton fire all the Federal prosecutors?
2. When did Clinton have a law put in place that the prosecutors could
be appointed permenantly without Senate approval?
3. When did Clinton fire a prosecutor so he could install the sidekick
of his political guru?
4. When did Clinton fire prosecutors and lie about the reason (Justice
said it was for performance related reasons, even thoug, IIRC, 7 of 8
had excellent reviews)?
OK, it was really 4 questions...
--
Dave Fritzinger
Honolulu, HI
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: OT: Jury Convicts Libby On Four of Five Counts	07 Mar 2007 08:05:44 PM

"Dave Fritzinger" <dfritzin@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1173318670.125973.219820@n33g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

On Mar 7, 3:43 pm, Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com> wrote:

Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote
innews:5aouu2p22ltq2p8quuv42ometl1gpjmut6@4ax.com:

On Thu, 8 Mar 2007 01:58:21 +0100 (CET), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns98ECCBC28E367freddyb...@194.177.96.26>:

Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote in
news:n0luu2ptqflvnmiqaen3scck6nnipk7g2j@4ax.com:

On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 15:04:12 +0100 (CET), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fston...@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns98EC5CD7CCAF1freddyb...@194.177.96.26>:

Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote in
news:lg3su2pn1vj1cj80cf56q916rt9rar66fe@4ax.com:

2. Joe Wilson lied to the press and to the nation about the
President's Niger Yellowcake claim. In fact his report
*supported* the claim that Saddam was seeking to purchase
Yellowcake from Niger, since their only other exports were
of no economic value to Iraq.

Wow, I didn't know that. In fact, this is the first time I've
heard anything like this. I was under the impression that his
report debinked the administration's claims. Can you show me
where I can find this?

It's in the 9/11 Commission report. It's been public knowledge
for *years*.

That would be the report that Bush blew off, much like he blew
off the Iraq Study Group.

And that would be *YOU* blowing it off too.

Oh, I must reiterate my apology, that was the First Senate
Intelligence Commitee report, not the 9/11 Commission report. My
mistake.

I like Bush's mock anger about how our soldiers are treated at
various Army hospitals. It appears that the only anger he has is
that his disastrous foray into outsourcing was made available for
all to see. George W Bush has shown that he does not give a damn
about our soldiers. Support the troops? Impeach Bush.

Hate the troops? Vote Republican.

Hate America? Vote Democrat.

"Outsourcing" wasn't the problem, it's just a convenient excuse for
the blame-shifters.

Lunchie, what's needed is to throw out the entire Federal
bureaucracy, top to bottom. FEMA, State, CIA, they all put more
priority on playing CYA and turf wars than in doing their jobs
right, and then "blame somebody else" is the name of the game when
the hammer comes down.

Democrats seem capable of running the Federal bureaucracy. Too bad
Republicans are unable to do it.

Yeah, the media doesn't get all huffy when Clinton fires all the
Federal prosecutors, but let Bush fire just a few and they get all
"conspiracy theory" on him. Same with every other department.

Couple of questions for you, Fred.

1. When did Clinton fire all the Federal prosecutors?

When he took office.

2. When did Clinton have a law put in place that the prosecutors could
be appointed permenantly without Senate approval?

So what's the problem, it's legal.

3. When did Clinton fire a prosecutor so he could install the sidekick
of his political guru?

When did it become an issue about when a political *appointee* was
replaced anyway?

4. When did Clinton fire prosecutors and lie about the reason (Justice
said it was for performance related reasons, even thoug, IIRC, 7 of 8
had excellent reviews)?

When did past reviews become relevant when insubordination was the
issue?

OK, it was really 4 questions...

Who gives a *****? Clinton gets a pass because he was a Democrat.
Bush doesn't because he's a Republican.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"The Bush critics' position is that we must believe without reservation
or criticism any intelligence that can be used to argue against military
action and that we should never believe any intelligence, however
plausible, that can be used to argue for it. That's not very
intelligent." - Michael Barone
.

User: "David Fritzinger"
Title: Re: OT: Jury Convicts Libby On Four of Five Counts	07 Mar 2007 10:56:07 PM

In article <Xns98ECD72F622D7freddybear@194.177.96.26>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote: