| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"atheist@home" |
| Date: |
26 May 2005 05:49:47 PM |
| Object: |
OT Lawmakers busted |
Three dirty Tennesse democrat <And one republican> lawmakers busted
for taking bribes.
The feds finally got John Ford and for many of us it's almost as
exciting as winning the lottery.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7994310/
atheist@home#1554
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: OT Lawmakers busted |
27 May 2005 06:06:58 AM |
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"atheist@home" <atheist@home.com> wrote in message
news:20rc91d664gms4ovieu40cuj4jl05ionce@4ax.com...
Three dirty Tennesse democrat <And one republican> lawmakers busted
for taking bribes.
The feds finally got John Ford and for many of us it's almost as
exciting as winning the lottery.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7994310/
atheist@home#1554
Only 3?
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: OT Lawmakers busted |
29 May 2005 06:51:37 PM |
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On Thu, 26 May 2005 22:49:47 GMT, "atheist@home" <atheist@home.com>
wrote:
Three dirty Tennesse democrat <And one republican> lawmakers busted
for taking bribes.
The feds finally got John Ford and for many of us it's almost as
exciting as winning the lottery.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7994310/
Understandable. And there's a lot more sleaze out there.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "Yang, AthD h.c, Kicking AWOLs Cocaine Snorting Ass" |
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| Title: Re: OT Lawmakers busted |
26 May 2005 10:10:53 PM |
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On Thu, 26 May 2005 22:49:47 GMT, "atheist@home" <atheist@home.com>
wrote:
Three dirty Tennesse democrat <And one republican> lawmakers busted
for taking bribes.
The feds finally got John Ford and for many of us it's almost as
exciting as winning the lottery.
If there guilty, then let them face the consequences. Just like Tom
DeLay...
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7994310/
atheist@home#1554
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Sorcery Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec (aka aka Yang's little poltregeist *****)
The Bush 'balanced' budget: 1.6 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: 12 million FEWER jobs than Clinton and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -1652 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
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| User: "atheist@home" |
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| Title: Re: OT Lawmakers busted |
27 May 2005 05:08:44 PM |
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On Thu, 26 May 2005 20:10:53 -0700, "Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's
Cocaine Snorting *****" <eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 26 May 2005 22:49:47 GMT, "atheist@home" <atheist@home.com>
wrote:
Three dirty Tennesse democrat <And one republican> lawmakers busted
for taking bribes.
The feds finally got John Ford and for many of us it's almost as
exciting as winning the lottery.
If there guilty, then let them face the consequences. Just like Tom
DeLay...
Don't hold your breath on DeLay.
Politicians at that level are too difficult to get to.
There may be ethics charges, then perhaps a fine but they write the
laws and create the loopholes.
They also control the purse strings and investigative agencies know
that all too well.
King George and his Parliment were laughable lightweights compared to
the American Federal government and it's arrogance and control over
the people.
atheist@home#1554
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7994310/
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Sorcery Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec (aka aka Yang's little poltregeist *****)
The Bush 'balanced' budget: 1.6 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: 12 million FEWER jobs than Clinton and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -1652 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
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| User: "Yang, AthD h.c, Kicking AWOLs Cocaine Snorting Ass" |
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| Title: Re: OT Lawmakers busted |
28 May 2005 01:19:51 AM |
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On Fri, 27 May 2005 22:08:44 GMT, "atheist@home" <atheist@home.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 26 May 2005 20:10:53 -0700, "Yang, AthD (h.c), Kicking AWOL's
Cocaine Snorting *****" <eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 26 May 2005 22:49:47 GMT, "atheist@home" <atheist@home.com>
wrote:
Three dirty Tennesse democrat <And one republican> lawmakers busted
for taking bribes.
The feds finally got John Ford and for many of us it's almost as
exciting as winning the lottery.
If there guilty, then let them face the consequences. Just like Tom
DeLay...
Don't hold your breath on DeLay.
Politicians at that level are too difficult to get to.
Didn't they get Rostenkowski for his own shady dealing?
There may be ethics charges, then perhaps a fine but they write the
laws and create the loopholes.
They also control the purse strings and investigative agencies know
that all too well.
King George and his Parliment were laughable lightweights compared to
the American Federal government and it's arrogance and control over
the people.
atheist@home#1554
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7994310/
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Sorcery Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec (aka aka Yang's little poltregeist *****)
The Bush 'balanced' budget: 1.6 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: 12 million FEWER jobs than Clinton and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -1652 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Sorcery Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec (aka aka Yang's little poltregeist *****)
The Bush 'balanced' budget: 1.6 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: 12 million FEWER jobs than Clinton and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -1654 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: OT Lawmakers busted |
26 May 2005 06:26:11 PM |
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TV's atheist@home wrote:
Three dirty Tennesse democrat <And one republican> lawmakers busted
for taking bribes.
The feds finally got John Ford and for many of us it's almost as
exciting as winning the lottery.
Throw the book at all of them. Including the Dems.
Now if we could get them to throw the book at DeLay and Bush...
--
Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning.
A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing.
- Maynard James Keenan
The belief in the Christian god... is an appalling nightmare. I reject
the notion that the whole universe was created by this kind of evil
creature who would create such a thing. - Anthony Flew, March 22, 2005
aa #2133
ap #19
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| User: "atheist@home" |
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| Title: Re: OT Lawmakers busted |
27 May 2005 05:13:21 PM |
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On Thu, 26 May 2005 18:26:11 -0500, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
wrote:
TV's atheist@home wrote:
Three dirty Tennesse democrat <And one republican> lawmakers busted
for taking bribes.
The feds finally got John Ford and for many of us it's almost as
exciting as winning the lottery.
Throw the book at all of them. Including the Dems.
Now if we could get them to throw the book at DeLay and Bush...
Which specific charges would you bring against Bush and how would you
go about doing it?
Criminal charges as defined by law I mean.
atheist@home#1554
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: OT Lawmakers busted |
27 May 2005 07:21:06 PM |
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TV's atheist@home wrote:
On Thu, 26 May 2005 18:26:11 -0500, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
wrote:
TV's atheist@home wrote:
Three dirty Tennesse democrat <And one republican> lawmakers busted
for taking bribes.
The feds finally got John Ford and for many of us it's almost as
exciting as winning the lottery.
Throw the book at all of them. Including the Dems.
Now if we could get them to throw the book at DeLay and Bush...
Which specific charges would you bring against Bush and how would you
go about doing it?
Criminal charges as defined by law I mean.
How much time you got buddy?
--
Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning.
A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing.
- Maynard James Keenan
The belief in the Christian god... is an appalling nightmare. I reject
the notion that the whole universe was created by this kind of evil
creature who would create such a thing. - Anthony Flew, March 22, 2005
aa #2133
ap #19
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| User: "atheist@home" |
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| Title: Re: OT Lawmakers busted |
28 May 2005 02:30:25 AM |
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On Fri, 27 May 2005 19:21:06 -0500, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
wrote:
TV's atheist@home wrote:
On Thu, 26 May 2005 18:26:11 -0500, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
wrote:
TV's atheist@home wrote:
Three dirty Tennesse democrat <And one republican> lawmakers busted
for taking bribes.
The feds finally got John Ford and for many of us it's almost as
exciting as winning the lottery.
Throw the book at all of them. Including the Dems.
Now if we could get them to throw the book at DeLay and Bush...
Which specific charges would you bring against Bush and how would you
go about doing it?
Criminal charges as defined by law I mean.
How much time you got buddy?
All the time you need.
Are you going to answer the question?
atheist@home31554
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: OT Lawmakers busted |
28 May 2005 02:55:16 AM |
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TV's atheist@home wrote:
On Fri, 27 May 2005 19:21:06 -0500, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
wrote:
TV's atheist@home wrote:
On Thu, 26 May 2005 18:26:11 -0500, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
wrote:
TV's atheist@home wrote:
Three dirty Tennesse democrat <And one republican> lawmakers busted
for taking bribes.
The feds finally got John Ford and for many of us it's almost as
exciting as winning the lottery.
Throw the book at all of them. Including the Dems.
Now if we could get them to throw the book at DeLay and Bush...
Which specific charges would you bring against Bush and how would you
go about doing it?
Criminal charges as defined by law I mean.
How much time you got buddy?
All the time you need.
Are you going to answer the question?
For starters, illegally invading a sovereign nation. Breaking international
treaties. Intentionally lying to public about reasons for said war.
--
Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning.
A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing.
- Maynard James Keenan
The belief in the Christian god... is an appalling nightmare. I reject
the notion that the whole universe was created by this kind of evil
creature who would create such a thing. - Anthony Flew, March 22, 2005
aa #2133
ap #19
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| User: "atheist@home" |
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| Title: Re: OT Lawmakers busted |
28 May 2005 02:19:02 PM |
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On Sat, 28 May 2005 02:55:16 -0500, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
wrote:
TV's atheist@home wrote:
On Fri, 27 May 2005 19:21:06 -0500, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
wrote:
TV's atheist@home wrote:
On Thu, 26 May 2005 18:26:11 -0500, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
wrote:
TV's atheist@home wrote:
Three dirty Tennesse democrat <And one republican> lawmakers busted
for taking bribes.
The feds finally got John Ford and for many of us it's almost as
exciting as winning the lottery.
Throw the book at all of them. Including the Dems.
Now if we could get them to throw the book at DeLay and Bush...
Which specific charges would you bring against Bush and how would you
go about doing it?
Criminal charges as defined by law I mean.
How much time you got buddy?
All the time you need.
Are you going to answer the question?
For starters, illegally invading a sovereign nation.
The first thing you will need is a list of which laws were actually
broken.
Vague accusations won't help.
And even if you do believe laws were broken the government has access
to a multitude of attorneys who will argue against you.
American presidents have far too much power imo but that's the fault
of congress.
They could shut any president down in a heartbeat.
*They* control the money he needs to carry out his plans.
Breaking international treaties.
I've heard and read the claim from partisan commentators but can't
find anything specific and concrete.
But then I haven't really been looking all that hard because frankly
there isn't anything we can do about it if he did.
Intentionally lying to public about reasons for said war.
I don't think he intentionally lied.
He did have bad information and there is a difference.
But he was justified in attacking Iraq because Hussein violated
agreements he made after the first Gulf War and fired on American and
allied planes on numerous occasions which is in itself an act of war.
Even if Bush did lie which laws did he break by doing so?
There isn't a snowballs chance in Hell that any American president is
going to be arrested and tried no matter what he does.
I can't find anything to indicate that the rape charges against
Clinton were ever investigated by any law enforcement agency <Except
for one> or congressional committe and that infuriates a large number
of people.
At any rate you may as well give it up and learn to live with it.
After Bush other presidents will do things we believe to be immoral or
illegal and there isn't a damned thing we can do about it.
atheist@home#1554
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: OT Lawmakers busted |
28 May 2005 02:32:05 PM |
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TV's atheist@home wrote:
For starters, illegally invading a sovereign nation.
The first thing you will need is a list of which laws were actually
broken.
I'm not a prosecutor, I won't "need" anything.
Breaking international treaties.
I've heard and read the claim from partisan commentators but can't
find anything specific and concrete.
But then I haven't really been looking all that hard because frankly
there isn't anything we can do about it if he did.
With that attitude, then you're right.
Intentionally lying to public about reasons for said war.
I don't think he intentionally lied.
He did have bad information and there is a difference.
He was determined to attack Iraq come hell or high water. He had good
information and he chose to ignore and/or silence it.
Face it, he lied.
At any rate you may as well give it up and learn to live with it.
I'm not going to bend over for anybody.
After Bush other presidents will do things we believe to be immoral or
illegal and there isn't a damned thing we can do about it.
There's always something we can do about it. You sound like you've already
given up.
--
Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning.
A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing.
- Maynard James Keenan
The belief in the Christian god... is an appalling nightmare. I reject
the notion that the whole universe was created by this kind of evil
creature who would create such a thing. - Anthony Flew, March 22, 2005
aa #2133
ap #19
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| User: "atheist@home" |
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| Title: Re: OT Lawmakers busted |
28 May 2005 05:24:16 PM |
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On Sat, 28 May 2005 14:32:05 -0500, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
wrote:
TV's atheist@home wrote:
For starters, illegally invading a sovereign nation.
The first thing you will need is a list of which laws were actually
broken.
I'm not a prosecutor, I won't "need" anything.
You are making accusations that he violated the law yet providing no
evidence of it.
Breaking international treaties.
I've heard and read the claim from partisan commentators but can't
find anything specific and concrete.
But then I haven't really been looking all that hard because frankly
there isn't anything we can do about it if he did.
With that attitude, then you're right.
History backs me up.
Intentionally lying to public about reasons for said war.
I don't think he intentionally lied.
He did have bad information and there is a difference.
He was determined to attack Iraq come hell or high water. He had good
information and he chose to ignore and/or silence it.
There is credible evidence that he was supplied with faulty
information regarding certain matters but despite that, Hussein did
everything he could to convince the world that he was a threat to his
neighbors as well as the rest of the world.
That is not the least bit complicated.
Face it, he lied.
I won't accept that until someone provides credible evidence that he
did.
Given the fact that I've been leaning more to the right for the past
couple of years and that I absolutely detest Bill Clinton I could just
accept the claims that he did indeed commit rape and have people
murdered to protect himself from certain things that would have harmed
him politically and I could insist the claims are true and that only a
fool would refuse to accept it but I would be lowering myself to the
moral level of a professional politiian or true believer if I did so.
I refuse to do that.
At any rate you may as well give it up and learn to live with it.
I'm not going to bend over for anybody.
Sure you will.
You may not realize it but like most of us you can unknowlingly serve
the wrong master simply by spreading the flasehoods you have been
spoon fed by politicians, political pundits and the press.
When we do that it doesn't mean that we are being deliberately
dishonest, just that we have been had.
Of course that doesn't mean that everything we believe is a lie or
that we are stupid for believing the well structured lies but we are
far more easily manipulated than we like to believe.
After Bush other presidents will do things we believe to be immoral or
illegal and there isn't a damned thing we can do about it.
There's always something we can do about it. You sound like you've already
given up.
Again, history backs me up.
I'm just not going to waste any more of my time entertaining the
foolish notion that Americans on the whole have any kind of real
control over the federal government in most things.
The realization of that fact was sort of liberating actually.
It was a bit like the Christian who has the sudden realization that
his faith and loyalty were misplaced all those years and that there
really isn't a god.
That the things he was taught from the time he was a child and the
things he read and heard that shored up his beliefs were all lies.
I am no more responsible for the things the U.S. federal government
does in the future than I am for what it did one hundred years go.
I will however in part pay a price for what they do and there's
nothing fair about that.
atheist@home#1554
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: OT Lawmakers busted |
29 May 2005 12:50:07 AM |
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TV's atheist@home wrote:
After Bush other presidents will do things we believe to be immoral or
illegal and there isn't a damned thing we can do about it.
There's always something we can do about it. You sound like you've
already
given up.
Again, history backs me up.
Actually the history of your own country backs **me** up. What led to the
creation of this country? Doing something about a bad situation. If the
founding fathers had thought like you, we'd still be a British colony.
--
Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning.
A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing.
- Maynard James Keenan
The belief in the Christian god... is an appalling nightmare. I reject
the notion that the whole universe was created by this kind of evil
creature who would create such a thing. - Anthony Flew, March 22, 2005
aa #2133
ap #19
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| User: "atheist@home" |
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| Title: Re: OT Lawmakers busted |
29 May 2005 03:14:49 PM |
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On Sun, 29 May 2005 00:50:07 -0500, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
wrote:
TV's atheist@home wrote:
After Bush other presidents will do things we believe to be immoral or
illegal and there isn't a damned thing we can do about it.
There's always something we can do about it. You sound like you've
already
given up.
Again, history backs me up.
Actually the history of your own country backs **me** up. What led to the
creation of this country? Doing something about a bad situation. If the
founding fathers had thought like you, we'd still be a British colony.
You've misread me.
I feel the legislatures of all fifty states should call for a
constitutional convention, bypassing the U.S. Congress which they have
the legal power to do and amend the Constitution to reign in the
federal government including and especially the federal courts.
An overwhelming number of presidents beginning with John Adams and
Thomas Jefferson have violated the constitution and they along with
the U.S. congress have assumed powers not granted by the document.
Even the founders themselves assumed powers not delegated by the
states when they chose to write a constitution.
Confederate delegates did the same and even went so far as to appoint
Jefferson Davis interim president.
The point is that politicians almost invariably assume powers above
and beyond those assigned them.
Tell me, when Clinton invaded Bosnia were you disturbed and did you
feel he had broken any laws?
Certainly there was no direct threat to America there.
What is the difference in what he did and what Bush is doing?
atheist@home#1554
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: OT Lawmakers busted |
29 May 2005 03:49:53 PM |
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TV's atheist@home wrote:
On Sun, 29 May 2005 00:50:07 -0500, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
wrote:
TV's atheist@home wrote:
After Bush other presidents will do things we believe to be immoral or
illegal and there isn't a damned thing we can do about it.
There's always something we can do about it. You sound like you've
already
given up.
Again, history backs me up.
Actually the history of your own country backs **me** up. What led to
the
creation of this country? Doing something about a bad situation. If the
founding fathers had thought like you, we'd still be a British colony.
You've misread me.
I feel the legislatures of all fifty states should call for a
constitutional convention, bypassing the U.S. Congress which they have
the legal power to do and amend the Constitution to reign in the
federal government including and especially the federal courts.
I agree. Flush them all out, Dem and Repub alike. Start over from scratch.
An overwhelming number of presidents beginning with John Adams and
Thomas Jefferson have violated the constitution and they along with
the U.S. congress have assumed powers not granted by the document.
Even the founders themselves assumed powers not delegated by the
states when they chose to write a constitution.
Confederate delegates did the same and even went so far as to appoint
Jefferson Davis interim president.
The point is that politicians almost invariably assume powers above
and beyond those assigned them.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
What we need is a true system of checks and balances. Not a Republican
Congress overseeing a Republican White House being watched by a
majority-Republican Supreme Court. And I'd say the same if they were all
Democrats.
Tell me, when Clinton invaded Bosnia were you disturbed and did you
feel he had broken any laws?
I didn't personally know anybody who was wounded/killed in Bosnia. Bosnia
wasn't a quagmire with no end in sight. I didn't think about it as much
because Clinton didn't ramble on about how he was a "war president" and
didn't pass any draconian laws because of the Bosnian conflict. Clinton did
some bad things, but Bush has done many more bad things and the consequences
have been and will be much greater..
Certainly there was no direct threat to America there.
What is the difference in what he did and what Bush is doing?
Magnitude and scope.
--
Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning.
A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing.
- Maynard James Keenan
The belief in the Christian god... is an appalling nightmare. I reject
the notion that the whole universe was created by this kind of evil
creature who would create such a thing. - Anthony Flew, March 22, 2005
aa #2133
ap #19
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: OT Lawmakers busted |
30 May 2005 10:36:17 AM |
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"towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:zYCdnZ0F2fKltgffRVn-hQ@centurytel.net:
TV's atheist@home wrote:
On Sun, 29 May 2005 00:50:07 -0500, "towelie"
<bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
TV's atheist@home wrote:
After Bush other presidents will do things we believe to be
immoral or illegal and there isn't a damned thing we can do about
it.
There's always something we can do about it. You sound like
you've already
given up.
Again, history backs me up.
Actually the history of your own country backs **me** up. What led
to the
creation of this country? Doing something about a bad situation.
If the founding fathers had thought like you, we'd still be a
British colony.
You've misread me.
I feel the legislatures of all fifty states should call for a
constitutional convention, bypassing the U.S. Congress which they
have the legal power to do and amend the Constitution to reign in the
federal government including and especially the federal courts.
I agree. Flush them all out, Dem and Repub alike. Start over from
scratch.
I'll vote for the flush them out part. I don't know about the starting
from scratch bit though.
An overwhelming number of presidents beginning with John Adams and
Thomas Jefferson have violated the constitution and they along with
the U.S. congress have assumed powers not granted by the document.
Even the founders themselves assumed powers not delegated by the
states when they chose to write a constitution.
Confederate delegates did the same and even went so far as to appoint
Jefferson Davis interim president.
The point is that politicians almost invariably assume powers above
and beyond those assigned them.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
What we need is a true system of checks and balances. Not a
Republican Congress overseeing a Republican White House being watched
by a majority-Republican Supreme Court. And I'd say the same if they
were all Democrats.
Except that even with their majority, the Republicans don't seem to have
anything resembling a rubber-stamp Congress.
Tell me, when Clinton invaded Bosnia were you disturbed and did you
feel he had broken any laws?
I didn't personally know anybody who was wounded/killed in Bosnia.
Bosnia wasn't a quagmire with no end in sight.
Really? Tell that to the "peacekeepers" who are still there.
I didn't think about
it as much because Clinton didn't ramble on about how he was a "war
president" and didn't pass any draconian laws because of the Bosnian
conflict. Clinton did some bad things, but Bush has done many more
bad things and the consequences have been and will be much greater..
Clinton's major bad things were the things he *didn't* do.
Certainly there was no direct threat to America there.
What is the difference in what he did and what Bush is doing?
Magnitude and scope.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Even if the grass is greener on the other side,
they still have to cut it.
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| User: "atheist@home" |
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| Title: Re: OT Lawmakers busted |
30 May 2005 02:33:39 PM |
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On Mon, 30 May 2005 15:36:17 GMT, Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com>
wrote:
"towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:zYCdnZ0F2fKltgffRVn-hQ@centurytel.net:
TV's atheist@home wrote:
On Sun, 29 May 2005 00:50:07 -0500, "towelie"
<bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
TV's atheist@home wrote:
After Bush other presidents will do things we believe to be
immoral or illegal and there isn't a damned thing we can do about
it.
There's always something we can do about it. You sound like
you've already
given up.
Again, history backs me up.
Actually the history of your own country backs **me** up. What led
to the
creation of this country? Doing something about a bad situation.
If the founding fathers had thought like you, we'd still be a
British colony.
You've misread me.
I feel the legislatures of all fifty states should call for a
constitutional convention, bypassing the U.S. Congress which they
have the legal power to do and amend the Constitution to reign in the
federal government including and especially the federal courts.
I agree. Flush them all out, Dem and Repub alike. Start over from
scratch.
I'll vote for the flush them out part. I don't know about the starting
from scratch bit though.
An overwhelming number of presidents beginning with John Adams and
Thomas Jefferson have violated the constitution and they along with
the U.S. congress have assumed powers not granted by the document.
Even the founders themselves assumed powers not delegated by the
states when they chose to write a constitution.
Confederate delegates did the same and even went so far as to appoint
Jefferson Davis interim president.
The point is that politicians almost invariably assume powers above
and beyond those assigned them.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
What we need is a true system of checks and balances. Not a
Republican Congress overseeing a Republican White House being watched
by a majority-Republican Supreme Court. And I'd say the same if they
were all Democrats.
Except that even with their majority, the Republicans don't seem to have
anything resembling a rubber-stamp Congress.
Tell me, when Clinton invaded Bosnia were you disturbed and did you
feel he had broken any laws?
I didn't personally know anybody who was wounded/killed in Bosnia.
Bosnia wasn't a quagmire with no end in sight.
Really? Tell that to the "peacekeepers" who are still there.
I didn't think about
it as much because Clinton didn't ramble on about how he was a "war
president" and didn't pass any draconian laws because of the Bosnian
conflict. Clinton did some bad things, but Bush has done many more
bad things and the consequences have been and will be much greater..
Clinton's major bad things were the things he *didn't* do.
Strange thing about presidents.
They are always concerned about their legacy but behave as though they
believe their propaganda will be accepted by historians the way it is
accepted by their followers.
I think maybe the body count is going to be too high for history to
smile on Clinton.
atheist@home#1554
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: OT Lawmakers busted |
30 May 2005 03:08:37 PM |
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TV's atheist@home wrote:
Clinton's major bad things were the things he *didn't* do.
Strange thing about presidents.
They are always concerned about their legacy but behave as though they
believe their propaganda will be accepted by historians the way it is
accepted by their followers.
I think maybe the body count is going to be too high for history to
smile on Clinton.
I honestly don't think history will look very highly upon any President
since Kennedy. Johnson was a disaster. Nixon, well, he was Nixon. Ford
has already been forgotten. Carter had his heart in the right place, but
his timing was terrible. 1977-1981 would have been a bad time for any
President. Reagan and Clinton both had their moments, but also had glaring
faults and made some horrible decisions. Bush 41's presidency was largely
forgettable. Bush 43's presidency has been an abyssimal failure from the
very beginning.
Discussing politics with you and with, say, Fred Stone is like night and
day. While I disagree with you on lots of things, you're always polite and
courteous. Fred always resorts to name-calling and character assassination,
and frankly makes himself look like an *****. Thanks for not being like that.
--
Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning.
A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing.
- Maynard James Keenan
The belief in the Christian god... is an appalling nightmare. I reject
the notion that the whole universe was created by this kind of evil
creature who would create such a thing. - Anthony Flew, March 22, 2005
aa #2133
ap #19
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| User: "atheist@home" |
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| Title: Re: OT Lawmakers busted |
01 Jun 2005 10:03:13 PM |
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On Mon, 30 May 2005 15:08:37 -0500, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
wrote:
TV's atheist@home wrote:
Clinton's major bad things were the things he *didn't* do.
Strange thing about presidents.
They are always concerned about their legacy but behave as though they
believe their propaganda will be accepted by historians the way it is
accepted by their followers.
I think maybe the body count is going to be too high for history to
smile on Clinton.
I honestly don't think history will look very highly upon any President
since Kennedy. Johnson was a disaster. Nixon, well, he was Nixon. Ford
has already been forgotten. Carter had his heart in the right place, but
his timing was terrible. 1977-1981 would have been a bad time for any
President. Reagan and Clinton both had their moments, but also had glaring
faults and made some horrible decisions. Bush 41's presidency was largely
forgettable. Bush 43's presidency has been an abyssimal failure from the
very beginning.
Kennedy left the world a far more dangerous place, <So many of them
do> Johnson was evil in his arrogance, Carter and his people were so
arrogant that they ruined any chance they had of doing anything
worthwhile, Reagan gets far too much credit for the collapse of the
Soviet Union, Clinton shamed us, was a very weak commander in chief
and there are valid arguments that his weakness emboldened bin Laden,
Bush senior was mediocre in most things, and while it's too close to
events to honestly judge Juniors impact on the world we do know that
he wants to have every citizen's children tested for mental illness
and there is no justifiable reason for the state doing such a thing.
Wilson was totally ignorant about world affairs and helped to deliver
WWII.
Teddy Roosevelt killed a Spaniard during hand to hand combat and wrote
to a friend expressig his joy at having killed a man.
Grover Clevland paid a man to take his place in the Union army.
Abraham Lincoln wrote to Grant and asked him to see to it that his own
son stayed behind the lines and wasn't placed in a dangerous
situation.
Stalin threatned to have his own daughter arrested and sent to the
gulags, Robespiere sent his best friend Danton <If he truly had such a
thing> to the guillotine when he got in the way.
Murder of family members wasn't uncommon in ancient Rome.
It's silly in the extreme to trust or believe anything anybody with a
political agenda says because it's all about power.
<How can you tell when a politician is lying? His lips are moving>
Discussing politics with you and with, say, Fred Stone is like night and
day. While I disagree with you on lots of things, you're always polite and
courteous. Fred always resorts to name-calling and character assassination,
and frankly makes himself look like an *****. Thanks for not being like that.
I think Fred catches too much hell sometimes.
I agree with him on a number of things.
But I've also learned quite a bit from people I've disagreed with on
the front end.
And while I try not to be an ***** anymore I do slip up sometimes.
Usenet can be very frustrating when trying to express a complete
perspective on things.
I'm afraid we lose some very bright people because of the contentious
nature of the medium and that's a shame.
atheist@home#1554
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: OT Lawmakers busted |
02 Jun 2005 02:18:07 AM |
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TV's atheist@home wrote:
Discussing politics with you and with, say, Fred Stone is like night and
day. While I disagree with you on lots of things, you're always polite
and
courteous. Fred always resorts to name-calling and character
assassination,
and frankly makes himself look like an *****. Thanks for not being like
that.
I think Fred catches too much hell sometimes.
I agree with him on a number of things.
But I've also learned quite a bit from people I've disagreed with on
the front end.
And while I try not to be an ***** anymore I do slip up sometimes.
Usenet can be very frustrating when trying to express a complete
perspective on things.
While Fred tries to be the biggest ***** he can. Every time he make an
assholish statement, it lessens my chance of ever voting GOP again, and I'm
sure I'm not the only one.
--
Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning.
A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing.
- Maynard James Keenan
The belief in the Christian god... is an appalling nightmare. I reject
the notion that the whole universe was created by this kind of evil
creature who would create such a thing. - Anthony Flew, March 22, 2005
aa #2133
ap #19
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: OT Lawmakers busted |
30 May 2005 03:00:17 PM |
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TV's Fred Stone wrote:
You've misread me.
I feel the legislatures of all fifty states should call for a
constitutional convention, bypassing the U.S. Congress which they
have the legal power to do and amend the Constitution to reign in the
federal government including and especially the federal courts.
I agree. Flush them all out, Dem and Repub alike. Start over from
scratch.
I'll vote for the flush them out part. I don't know about the starting
from scratch bit though.
We should review every law that is on the books, and get rid of the bad
ones.
An overwhelming number of presidents beginning with John Adams and
Thomas Jefferson have violated the constitution and they along with
the U.S. congress have assumed powers not granted by the document.
Even the founders themselves assumed powers not delegated by the
states when they chose to write a constitution.
Confederate delegates did the same and even went so far as to appoint
Jefferson Davis interim president.
The point is that politicians almost invariably assume powers above
and beyond those assigned them.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
What we need is a true system of checks and balances. Not a
Republican Congress overseeing a Republican White House being watched
by a majority-Republican Supreme Court. And I'd say the same if they
were all Democrats.
Except that even with their majority, the Republicans don't seem to have
anything resembling a rubber-stamp Congress.
They did up until the last few months. Finally, Congress seems to be
standing up against him. Hopefully this will continue.
Tell me, when Clinton invaded Bosnia were you disturbed and did you
feel he had broken any laws?
I didn't personally know anybody who was wounded/killed in Bosnia.
Bosnia wasn't a quagmire with no end in sight.
Really? Tell that to the "peacekeepers" who are still there.
How many US soldiers are in Bosnia today compared to the number in Iraq?
Hell, how many are in Afghanistan compared to Iraq?
I didn't think about
it as much because Clinton didn't ramble on about how he was a "war
president" and didn't pass any draconian laws because of the Bosnian
conflict. Clinton did some bad things, but Bush has done many more
bad things and the consequences have been and will be much greater..
Clinton's major bad things were the things he *didn't* do.
He should have pushed harder for health care reform, for one thing. Then
again, Congress wouldn't let him do anything, especially after 94.
--
Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning.
A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing.
- Maynard James Keenan
The belief in the Christian god... is an appalling nightmare. I reject
the notion that the whole universe was created by this kind of evil
creature who would create such a thing. - Anthony Flew, March 22, 2005
aa #2133
ap #19
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| User: "atheist@home" |
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| Title: Re: OT Lawmakers busted |
30 May 2005 03:58:19 AM |
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On Sun, 29 May 2005 15:49:53 -0500, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
wrote:
TV's atheist@home wrote:
On Sun, 29 May 2005 00:50:07 -0500, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
wrote:
TV's atheist@home wrote:
After Bush other presidents will do things we believe to be immoral or
illegal and there isn't a damned thing we can do about it.
There's always something we can do about it. You sound like you've
already
given up.
Again, history backs me up.
Actually the history of your own country backs **me** up. What led to
the
creation of this country? Doing something about a bad situation. If the
founding fathers had thought like you, we'd still be a British colony.
You've misread me.
I feel the legislatures of all fifty states should call for a
constitutional convention, bypassing the U.S. Congress which they have
the legal power to do and amend the Constitution to reign in the
federal government including and especially the federal courts.
I agree. Flush them all out, Dem and Repub alike. Start over from scratch.
We already tried that.
We formed a new nation with a new constitution limiting the powers of
elected officials.
Shortly afterwards Mr. John Adams, having been elected president
signed into law the clearly unconstitutional Alien and Sedition Acts.
And shortly after that Mr. Thomas Jefferson, having been elected
president agreed to the Louisana Purchase without consulting congress
which he admitted he didn't have the legal authority to do.
<Jefferson, the man who openly stated that political parties were very
dangerous also formed the first American political party when it
suited his purposes>
Supreme court chief justice John Marshall <Jefferson's cousin> decided
without any real constitutional basis that the federal courts had the
right to judicial review.
Mr. Andrew Jackson, having been elected president threatened to hang
anyone who so much as mentioned secession at a time when it was
generally agreed among many that dissolving the union was a legal
option of the states.
And Mr. Abarham Lincoln having been elected God Almighty set the tone
for the federal government we have today.
The list goes on, from congress to congress, president to president
and court to court.
Even if we agreed to flush them all <Which partisan politics will not
allow> we would just end up electing a different brood, though not a
different breed of politicians.
An overwhelming number of presidents beginning with John Adams and
Thomas Jefferson have violated the constitution and they along with
the U.S. congress have assumed powers not granted by the document.
Even the founders themselves assumed powers not delegated by the
states when they chose to write a constitution.
Confederate delegates did the same and even went so far as to appoint
Jefferson Davis interim president.
The point is that politicians almost invariably assume powers above
and beyond those assigned them.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
The federal government is pretty near having absolute power over us
now.
In the not too distant future they won't even have to be deceptive or
clever when exercising it.
What we need is a true system of checks and balances. Not a Republican
Congress overseeing a Republican White House being watched by a
majority-Republican Supreme Court. And I'd say the same if they were all
Democrats.
The Democratic party created the situation.
The leaders will never face that fact however.
The childish cop out is that they just didn't get their message across
to the American people.
I disagree.
I think they got it across perfectly, that the American people heard
it loud and clear and rejected it.
It's counter productive for party leaders to deny it.
Democrats are basically preaching to the choir when they talk about
policy <Which other than the constant need to raise taxes they are
worse than vague on> and mainstream America blames them for the
decline of civilized society.
And attacking a sitting president on a personal level during a time of
war was about as naive and stupid a thing as they could have done.
It's also stupid to attack Condoleezza Rice, Colin Powell and Clarence
Thomas on a personal level.
And then the party chose John Dean, a man that mainstream America had
already rejected as a left wing nut to lead the party.
I am awed by their political naivety.
<Please don't take any of this as a personal affront. It isn't
intended that way. I'm referring to the leadership>
Tell me, when Clinton invaded Bosnia were you disturbed and did you
feel he had broken any laws?
I didn't personally know anybody who was wounded/killed in Bosnia. Bosnia
wasn't a quagmire with no end in sight. I didn't think about it as much
because Clinton didn't ramble on about how he was a "war president" and
didn't pass any draconian laws because of the Bosnian conflict. Clinton did
some bad things, but Bush has done many more bad things and the consequences
have been and will be much greater..
I agreed with Clinton on Bosnia.
I agree with Bush on Iraq.
Funny thing about propaganda..we have a tendency to think it's all or
mostly generated by government and that we are somehow immune to it.
Both assumptions are wrong.
We can only protect ourselves by becoming familiar with the
techniques, catch phrases and key words that make it effective.
And a good solid obsession with the history of political movements,
revolutions and uprisings is an eye opener.
The language regarding propaganda doesn't really change much from
society to society and generation to generation.
It's amazing how easily we buy into it.
Btw, I'm currently reading Stolen Valor.
It's a really good book if one is interested in seeing how the press
and popular media can create a myth that affects society as a whole in
a very negative way.
It's also a page turner and difficult to put down.
Certainly there was no direct threat to America there.
What is the difference in what he did and what Bush is doing?
Magnitude and scope.
There are very positive things coming from what Bush is doing.
I would not however expect the mainstream press or partisan, leftest
pundits to tell anyone about them.
Did you know that after we bailed on South Vietnam, North Vietnamese
military leaders admitted publicly that they would have surrendered
years before had the protestors and leftest political pundits in
America not been on their side?
That the Tet offensive was a terrible military defeat for the North
but that the American press and political commentators told the
American people that it was a loss for America and South Vietnam?
Our retreat lead to the murders of thousands of South Vietnamese and
enabled Pol Pot to kill better than two million innocent, defenseless
human beings.
Men, women and children.
Propaganda is a dangerous thing and those who buy into it and openly
support it are partly responsible for the terrible things that happen
as a result.
But they can never be convinced of that because they are so convinced
they are always right.
atheist@home#1554
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| User: "atheist@home" |
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| Title: Re: OT Lawmakers busted |
30 May 2005 02:20:58 PM |
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On Mon, 30 May 2005 08:58:19 GMT, "atheist@home" <atheist@home.com>
wrote:
<snip>
And then the party chose John Dean, a man that mainstream America had
already rejected as a left wing nut to lead the party.
Lol!
John Dean?
Didn't you mean Howard Dean?
Uh...
Yeah...
Old man Dean's boy..Howard.
atheist@home#1554
<snip>
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