| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"maff" |
| Date: |
05 May 2005 04:15:48 PM |
| Object: |
OT: Lifting the Censor's Veil on the Shame of Iraq |
Lifting the Censor's Veil on the Shame of Iraq
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/05/opinion/05herbert.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.8223
By BOB HERBERT
Photographs from the Iraq war show the extreme horrors of warfare.
The Price of Polarization
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/04/AR2005050402049.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1791.6244
By Jim Hoagland
Thursday, May 5, 2005; Page A25
Whenever politicians proclaim that it is time for a great national
debate on Issue X, it usually means they have no idea what to do about
X. Over to you, John Q.
But deflection carries risk in an era when the international political
zeitgeist is dominated by paradox and backlash. At home and abroad, the
tribalization of modern politics makes debate-mongering an
unpredictable enterprise.
The Road to Riches
http://tinyurl.com/55nzo
China / Meiguo
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/772524fe8bf033d4
Is the wakening giant a monster?
http://tinyurl.com/iws6
A Blueprint for the Future
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/59c28cd6dfe6f60f
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| User: "Ray Martinez" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Lifting the Censor's Veil on the Shame of Iraq |
05 May 2005 04:32:42 PM |
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MAFF:
Photographs from the Iraq war show the extreme horrors of warfare.
RAY M:
What war is not horrific ?
Whats your point ?
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Lifting the Censor's Veil on the Shame of Iraq |
05 May 2005 05:08:17 PM |
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On 5 May 2005 14:32:42 -0700, "Ray Martinez" <pyramidial@yahoo.com> wrote:
MAFF:
Photographs from the Iraq war show the extreme horrors of warfare.
RAY M:
What war is not horrific ?
Whats your point ?
He's trying to be popular.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Lifting the Censor's Veil on the Shame of Iraq |
06 May 2005 04:50:32 AM |
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duke wrote:
On 5 May 2005 14:32:42 -0700, "Ray Martinez" <pyramidial@yahoo.com>
wrote:
MAFF:
Photographs from the Iraq war show the extreme horrors of warfare.
RAY M:
What war is not horrific ?
Whats your point ?
He's trying to be popular.
Of course, it's always popular to bash DuKKKe.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Lifting the Censor's Veil on the Shame of Iraq |
05 May 2005 05:17:20 PM |
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maff wrote:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.8223
By BOB HERBERT
Photographs from the Iraq war show the extreme horrors of warfare.
I have news for you. The purpose of war is to kill your enemies and bust
up their *****.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Lifting the Censor's Veil on the Shame of Iraq |
05 May 2005 05:21:08 PM |
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In article <3dvkbpFfcfpU7@individual.net> "Robert J. Kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.com> writes:
maff wrote:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.8223
By BOB HERBERT
Photographs from the Iraq war show the extreme horrors of warfare.
I have news for you. The purpose of war is to kill your enemies and bust
up their *****.
Which is horrific. Which therefore dicates that declaring
someone to be The Enemy should not be done lightly, let
alone while using insufficient information.
-- cary
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| User: "No 33 Secretary" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Lifting the Censor's Veil on the Shame of Iraq |
05 May 2005 05:40:28 PM |
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(Cary Kittrell) wrote in
news:d5e68k$ngn$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu:
In article <3dvkbpFfcfpU7@individual.net> "Robert J. Kolker"
<nowhere@nowhere.com> writes:
maff wrote:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.8223
By BOB HERBERT
Photographs from the Iraq war show the extreme horrors of warfare.
I have news for you. The purpose of war is to kill your enemies and
bust up their *****.
Which is horrific. Which therefore dicates that declaring
someone to be The Enemy should not be done lightly, let
alone while using insufficient information.
Indeed. Iraq shouldn't have pissed us off in such a cavalier fashion.
--
Terry Austin
www.hyperbooks.com
Campaign Cartographer now available
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Lifting the Censor's Veil on the Shame of Iraq |
06 May 2005 04:36:24 AM |
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No 33 Secretary wrote:
cary@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell) wrote in
news:d5e68k$ngn$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu:
In article <3dvkbpFfcfpU7@individual.net> "Robert J. Kolker"
<nowhere@nowhere.com> writes:
maff wrote:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.8223
By BOB HERBERT
Photographs from the Iraq war show the extreme horrors of warfare.
I have news for you. The purpose of war is to kill your enemies and
bust up their *****.
Which is horrific. Which therefore dicates that declaring
someone to be The Enemy should not be done lightly, let
alone while using insufficient information.
Indeed. Iraq shouldn't have pissed us off in such a cavalier fashion.
By getting rid of their WMD's.
Yeah, just like they were asked to.
No wonder Bush was ***** !
--
Jez, MBA.,
Country Dancing and Advanced Astrology, UBS.
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Lifting the Censor's Veil on the Shame of Iraq |
05 May 2005 05:37:41 PM |
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Cary Kittrell wrote:
Which is horrific. Which therefore dicates that declaring
someone to be The Enemy should not be done lightly, let
alone while using insufficient information.
Better to be safe than sorry. Do unto others, before they do unto you.
If thine enemy smite thee on thy cheek, rip his head off and ***** down
his neck. Then kill his family and friends.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Lifting the Censor's Veil on the Shame of Iraq |
06 May 2005 04:35:24 AM |
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Robert J. Kolker wrote:
Cary Kittrell wrote:
Which is horrific. Which therefore dicates that declaring
someone to be The Enemy should not be done lightly, let
alone while using insufficient information.
Better to be safe than sorry.
Sorry for what ? Iraq was no threat to the US.
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=426&row=0
'Bush wanted to remove Saddam through military action justified by the
conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were
being fixed around the policy.'
You support being lied to do you ?
Do unto others, before they do unto you.
If thine enemy smite thee on thy cheek, rip his head off and ***** down
his neck. Then kill his family and friends.
Sick fucking idiot.
--
Jez, MBA.,
Country Dancing and Advanced Astrology, UBS.
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Lifting the Censor's Veil on the Shame of Iraq |
05 May 2005 07:10:34 PM |
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Robert J. Kolker wrote:
Cary Kittrell wrote:
Which is horrific. Which therefore dicates that declaring
someone to be The Enemy should not be done lightly, let
alone while using insufficient information.
Better to be safe than sorry. Do unto others, before they do unto
you.
If thine enemy smite thee on thy cheek, rip his head off and *****
down
his neck. Then kill his family and friends.
Bob Kolker
By your logic, Japan was justified in attacking Pearl Harbor, Germany
and Russia were doing OK when they carved up Poland, and Pol Pot was
making the smart move by finishing off the refugees created by the US
bombing in Cambodia.
You're a real bottom-feeder, Robert Kolker.
Chris
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Lifting the Censor's Veil on the Shame of Iraq |
05 May 2005 07:55:54 PM |
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<chris.linthompson@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1115338234.646141.265500@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Robert J. Kolker wrote:
Cary Kittrell wrote:
Which is horrific. Which therefore dicates that declaring
someone to be The Enemy should not be done lightly, let
alone while using insufficient information.
Better to be safe than sorry. Do unto others, before they do unto
you.
If thine enemy smite thee on thy cheek, rip his head off and *****
down
his neck. Then kill his family and friends.
Bob Kolker
By your logic, Japan was justified in attacking Pearl Harbor, Germany
and Russia were doing OK when they carved up Poland, and Pol Pot was
making the smart move by finishing off the refugees created by the US
bombing in Cambodia.
And Osama Bin Laden is justified...
And Saddam was justified...
And Mao-tse tung was justified...
And Stalin was justified...
Etc., etc....
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Lifting the Censor's Veil on the Shame of Iraq |
06 May 2005 04:57:01 AM |
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Geoff wrote:
<chris.linthompson@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1115338234.646141.265500@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Robert J. Kolker wrote:
Cary Kittrell wrote:
Which is horrific. Which therefore dicates that declaring
someone to be The Enemy should not be done lightly, let
alone while using insufficient information.
Better to be safe than sorry. Do unto others, before they do unto
you.
If thine enemy smite thee on thy cheek, rip his head off and *****
down
his neck. Then kill his family and friends.
Bob Kolker
By your logic, Japan was justified in attacking Pearl Harbor,
Germany
and Russia were doing OK when they carved up Poland, and Pol Pot
was
making the smart move by finishing off the refugees created by the
US
bombing in Cambodia.
And Osama Bin Laden is justified...
And Saddam was justified...
And Mao-tse tung was justified...
And Stalin was justified...
Etc., etc....
You left out
And Adolf Bush was justied....
And Benito Blair was justified...
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| User: "scooter" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Lifting the Censor's Veil on the Shame of Iraq |
05 May 2005 08:14:45 PM |
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Robert J. Kolker wrote:
maff wrote:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.8223
By BOB HERBERT
Photographs from the Iraq war show the extreme horrors of warfare.
I have news for you. The purpose of war is to kill your enemies and
bust
up their *****.
Bob Kolker
Not really, no. That may have been true in ancient times but modern war
is not necessarily about "killing the enemy" nor "busting up their
*****"-- quite the contrary. The ideal scenario/goal of war is to keep
the infrastructure intact but change the culture of the people. Force
the enemy to submit, destroy their culture, colonize and re-insert a
new culture.
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| User: "Robert Grumbine" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Lifting the Censor's Veil on the Shame of Iraq |
06 May 2005 11:36:09 AM |
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In article <1115342085.868812.156130@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
scooter <kwills@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
Robert J. Kolker wrote:
maff wrote:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.8223
By BOB HERBERT
Photographs from the Iraq war show the extreme horrors of warfare.
I have news for you. The purpose of war is to kill your enemies and
bust
up their *****.
Bob Kolker
Not really, no. That may have been true in ancient times but modern war
is not necessarily about "killing the enemy" nor "busting up their
*****"-- quite the contrary. The ideal scenario/goal of war is to keep
the infrastructure intact but change the culture of the people. Force
the enemy to submit, destroy their culture, colonize and re-insert a
new culture.
Sounds something like a virus.
--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Lifting the Censor's Veil on the Shame of Iraq |
05 May 2005 05:30:50 PM |
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Robert J. Kolker wrote:
maff wrote:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.8223
By BOB HERBERT
Photographs from the Iraq war show the extreme horrors of warfare.
I have news for you. The purpose of war is to kill your enemies and
bust
up their *****.
Disagreement. There is no single "purpose" of war (there have been
many different purposes; to get rid of an undesirable ruler, to acquire
resources from another nation, etc etc); killing your enemies and
busting up their ***** are 'merely' two methods which have generally
proven effective, to one degree or another, in achieving the purpose(s)
of war.
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| User: "shane" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Lifting the Censor's Veil on the Shame of Iraq |
05 May 2005 08:15:33 PM |
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wrote:
Robert J. Kolker wrote:
maff wrote:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.8223
By BOB HERBERT
Photographs from the Iraq war show the extreme horrors of warfare.
I have news for you. The purpose of war is to kill your enemies and
bust
up their *****.
Disagreement. There is no single "purpose" of war (there have been
many different purposes; to get rid of an undesirable ruler, to acquire
resources from another nation, etc etc); killing your enemies and
busting up their ***** are 'merely' two methods which have generally
proven effective, to one degree or another, in achieving the purpose(s)
of war.
I think both you and bob are right, but at different levels, Bob is
talking at a footsoldier level, and you are talking at the political level.
--
shane
And the truth shall set you free.
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Lifting the Censor's Veil on the Shame of Iraq |
06 May 2005 04:53:23 AM |
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Robert J. Kolker wrote:
maff wrote:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.8223
By BOB HERBERT
Photographs from the Iraq war show the extreme horrors of warfare.
I have news for you. The purpose of war is to kill your enemies and
bust
up their *****.
That's good. We can always nuke the 'Bible Belt'.
Bob Kolker
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