| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Eris" |
| Date: |
13 Nov 2004 04:19:13 PM |
| Object: |
O.T. Mel Gibson's We were Soldiers |
O.K. fellow vets what did you think of Mel Gibson's We were soldiers .
1. Colonel and a Sergeant Major in the field?
2. People standing up or sitting up and shooting? ( To noncombatants,
no one would have been alive standing or sitting in an onslaught like
that.)
3. Medics coming when called? ( First time I called for a medic in
heavy combat he yelled back "***** You")
4.Huey's going in and shooting the enemy. Cobra's and LOACHs yes.
5. Showing emotion. ( after the first 12 hours in Country, I was
devoid of emotion, and had accepted the fact that I would not survive
this.)
6. Showing sympathy for the wounded. We were told the only way we
could get wounded, after all of the training we had was because we
messed up. No sympathy, just yelled at for scratching our balls and
thinking about the girl back home, when we should have been paying
attention.
His question at the end, Why did so many die and I live, has haunted
me.
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| User: "Eric Gill" |
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| Title: Re: O.T. Mel Gibson's We were Soldiers |
14 Nov 2004 08:30:12 AM |
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Eris <vithant01@yaya.comcast.net> wrote in
news:pd1dp0duvdomofmch7p2clmbaebda01h35@4ax.com:
O.K. fellow vets what did you think of Mel Gibson's We were soldiers .
No too bad, for a movie. Ironically less senselessly bloody than Jesus
Chainsaw Massacre.
<snip>
4.Huey's going in and shooting the enemy. Cobra's and LOACHs yes.
Too early. When all you have are UH-1s, stick guns on them.
http://tri.army.mil/LC/CS/csa/uh-1m.htm
Not all Hueys were Slicks.
5. Showing emotion. ( after the first 12 hours in Country, I was
devoid of emotion, and had accepted the fact that I would not survive
this.)
You have to remember - Vietnam was an escalation for us and U.S. forces on
large scale were pretty much newcomers at this point.
<snip>
His question at the end, Why did so many die and I live, has haunted
me.
"Soldiers Live - And Wonder Why"
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| User: "nJb" |
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| Title: Re: O.T. Mel Gibson's We were Soldiers |
14 Nov 2004 10:52:39 PM |
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Eric Gill wrote:
Eris <vithant01@yaya.comcast.net> wrote in
news:pd1dp0duvdomofmch7p2clmbaebda01h35@4ax.com:
O.K. fellow vets what did you think of Mel Gibson's We were soldiers .
No too bad, for a movie. Ironically less senselessly bloody than Jesus
Chainsaw Massacre.
<snip>
4.Huey's going in and shooting the enemy. Cobra's and LOACHs yes.
Too early. When all you have are UH-1s, stick guns on them.
http://tri.army.mil/LC/CS/csa/uh-1m.htm
Not all Hueys were Slicks.
5. Showing emotion. ( after the first 12 hours in Country, I was
devoid of emotion, and had accepted the fact that I would not survive
this.)
You have to remember - Vietnam was an escalation for us and U.S. forces on
large scale were pretty much newcomers at this point.
<snip>
His question at the end, Why did so many die and I live, has haunted
me.
"Soldiers Live - And Wonder Why"
"Old soldiers never die, the young ones do."
Jack
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| User: "Wexford" |
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| Title: Re: O.T. Mel Gibson's We were Soldiers |
13 Nov 2004 11:56:40 PM |
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Eris <vithant01@yaya.comcast.net> wrote in message news:<pd1dp0duvdomofmch7p2clmbaebda01h35@4ax.com>...
O.K. fellow vets what did you think of Mel Gibson's We were soldiers .
1. Colonel and a Sergeant Major in the field?
2. People standing up or sitting up and shooting? ( To noncombatants,
no one would have been alive standing or sitting in an onslaught like
that.)
3. Medics coming when called? ( First time I called for a medic in
heavy combat he yelled back "***** You")
4.Huey's going in and shooting the enemy. Cobra's and LOACHs yes.
5. Showing emotion. ( after the first 12 hours in Country, I was
devoid of emotion, and had accepted the fact that I would not survive
this.)
6. Showing sympathy for the wounded. We were told the only way we
could get wounded, after all of the training we had was because we
messed up. No sympathy, just yelled at for scratching our balls and
thinking about the girl back home, when we should have been paying
attention.
His question at the end, Why did so many die and I live, has haunted
me.
I tried to tell folks the combat scenes were ***** but... One
thing, Gibson treated the NVA and VC with the respect they deserved.
Wexford
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: O.T. Mel Gibson's We were Soldiers |
14 Nov 2004 12:59:35 AM |
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Wexford wrote:
Eris <vithant01@yaya.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:<pd1dp0duvdomofmch7p2clmbaebda01h35@4ax.com>...
O.K. fellow vets what did you think of Mel Gibson's We were soldiers
.
1. Colonel and a Sergeant Major in the field?
2. People standing up or sitting up and shooting? ( To noncombatants,
no one would have been alive standing or sitting in an onslaught like
that.)
3. Medics coming when called? ( First time I called for a medic in
heavy combat he yelled back "***** You")
4.Huey's going in and shooting the enemy. Cobra's and LOACHs yes.
5. Showing emotion. ( after the first 12 hours in Country, I was
devoid of emotion, and had accepted the fact that I would not survive
this.)
6. Showing sympathy for the wounded. We were told the only way we
could get wounded, after all of the training we had was because we
messed up. No sympathy, just yelled at for scratching our balls and
thinking about the girl back home, when we should have been paying
attention.
His question at the end, Why did so many die and I live, has haunted
me.
I tried to tell folks the combat scenes were ***** but... One
thing, Gibson treated the NVA and VC with the respect they deserved.
The scene at the end of the WWII miniseries was a while back (Band of
Brothers?) did a similar thing.
It showed the GI's guarding German POW's while one of their officers talked
to them. An American soldier translated and basically the German described
for his troops what the Americans felt about their comrades.
I am glad I missed it. I got out in October of 1965 and was flown home on
the day I was to be discharged because all the boats were going to Vietnam.
Wexford
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| User: "Eric Gill" |
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| Title: Re: O.T. Mel Gibson's We were Soldiers |
14 Nov 2004 08:33:08 AM |
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"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:rnDld.21236$6q2.451@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com:
I am glad I missed it. I got out in October of 1965 and was flown home
on the day I was to be discharged because all the boats were going to
Vietnam.
My vote for "unluckiest deployment screwup" goes to my dad. Two weeks after
he shipped out, MPs showed up at my grandmother's house, wondering why he
wasn't in Germany.
Simple: he was dodging rocket fire at Phu Cat.
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| User: "nJb" |
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| Title: Re: O.T. Mel Gibson's We were Soldiers |
14 Nov 2004 10:49:49 PM |
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Eris wrote:
O.K. fellow vets what did you think of Mel Gibson's We were soldiers .
1. Colonel and a Sergeant Major in the field?
2. People standing up or sitting up and shooting? ( To noncombatants,
no one would have been alive standing or sitting in an onslaught like
that.)
3. Medics coming when called? ( First time I called for a medic in
heavy combat he yelled back "***** You")
4.Huey's going in and shooting the enemy. Cobra's and LOACHs yes.
5. Showing emotion. ( after the first 12 hours in Country, I was
devoid of emotion, and had accepted the fact that I would not survive
this.)
snipped
As a non combat ***** (USMC 1967-1970) I've always wondered about the "no
atheists in foxholes" thing. Can you shed any light on this?
Jack
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| User: "Eris" |
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| Title: Re: O.T. Mel Gibson's We were Soldiers |
15 Nov 2004 08:42:21 AM |
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On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 21:49:49 -0700, nJb <NoNHL@all.com> wrote:
Eris wrote:
O.K. fellow vets what did you think of Mel Gibson's We were soldiers .
1. Colonel and a Sergeant Major in the field?
2. People standing up or sitting up and shooting? ( To noncombatants,
no one would have been alive standing or sitting in an onslaught like
that.)
3. Medics coming when called? ( First time I called for a medic in
heavy combat he yelled back "***** You")
4.Huey's going in and shooting the enemy. Cobra's and LOACHs yes.
5. Showing emotion. ( after the first 12 hours in Country, I was
devoid of emotion, and had accepted the fact that I would not survive
this.)
snipped
As a non combat ***** (USMC 1967-1970) I've always wondered about the "no
atheists in foxholes" thing. Can you shed any light on this?
Jack
90 minutes into country I was screaming and begging a god I didn't
believe in to make it stop. It got worse. Several horrors later I was
used to it and back to being an atheist.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: O.T. Mel Gibson's We were Soldiers |
14 Nov 2004 11:27:07 PM |
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nJb wrote:
Eris wrote:
O.K. fellow vets what did you think of Mel Gibson's We were soldiers
.
1. Colonel and a Sergeant Major in the field?
2. People standing up or sitting up and shooting? ( To noncombatants,
no one would have been alive standing or sitting in an onslaught like
that.)
3. Medics coming when called? ( First time I called for a medic in
heavy combat he yelled back "***** You")
4.Huey's going in and shooting the enemy. Cobra's and LOACHs yes.
5. Showing emotion. ( after the first 12 hours in Country, I was
devoid of emotion, and had accepted the fact that I would not survive
this.)
snipped
As a non combat ***** (USMC 1967-1970) I've always wondered about the
"no atheists in foxholes" thing. Can you shed any light on this?
A myth. I would suspect more atheists are made in foxholes then convert to
deism.
I've been hooked on "The District" of late and last night the chief starts a
monolog with "They say there are no atheists in foxholes," pause "but that's
where I became one."
At the end of the scene he says he got his faith back when his son was born.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: O.T. Mel Gibson's We were Soldiers |
14 Nov 2004 01:03:23 AM |
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In our last thrilling episode, Eris <vithant01@yaya.comcast.net> was
pushed over the cliffs of alt.atheism on Sat, 13 Nov 2004 17:19:13
-0500 by Zoog, minion of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:
O.K. fellow vets what did you think of Mel Gibson's We were soldiers .
1. Colonel and a Sergeant Major in the field?
That actually happened. Ia Drang was the 1/7th Cav's first real
engagement, so he wanted to lead from the front.
2. People standing up or sitting up and shooting? ( To noncombatants,
no one would have been alive standing or sitting in an onslaught like
that.)
They were green troops. And a little dose of Hollywood.
3. Medics coming when called? ( First time I called for a medic in
heavy combat he yelled back "***** You")
When were you calling? Remember, the Ia Drang was the first major
battle for the US.
4.Huey's going in and shooting the enemy. Cobra's and LOACHs yes.
No Cobras, no LOACHs in 1965.
5. Showing emotion. ( after the first 12 hours in Country, I was
devoid of emotion, and had accepted the fact that I would not survive
this.)
Hollywood.
6. Showing sympathy for the wounded. We were told the only way we
could get wounded, after all of the training we had was because we
messed up. No sympathy, just yelled at for scratching our balls and
thinking about the girl back home, when we should have been paying
attention.
A little bit of Hollywood.
His question at the end, Why did so many die and I live, has haunted
me.
I think the survivors of the assault on Ur asked themselves the same
question.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
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| User: "Eris" |
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| Title: Re: O.T. Mel Gibson's We were Soldiers |
14 Nov 2004 10:02:07 AM |
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On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 07:03:23 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
In our last thrilling episode, Eris <vithant01@yaya.comcast.net> was
pushed over the cliffs of alt.atheism on Sat, 13 Nov 2004 17:19:13
-0500 by Zoog, minion of Zathar. As he fell, he screamed:
O.K. fellow vets what did you think of Mel Gibson's We were soldiers .
1. Colonel and a Sergeant Major in the field?
That actually happened. Ia Drang was the 1/7th Cav's first real
engagement, so he wanted to lead from the front.
2. People standing up or sitting up and shooting? ( To noncombatants,
no one would have been alive standing or sitting in an onslaught like
that.)
They were green troops. And a little dose of Hollywood.
3. Medics coming when called? ( First time I called for a medic in
heavy combat he yelled back "***** You")
When were you calling? Remember, the Ia Drang was the first major
battle for the US.
A minor skirmish in the summer of 1968. Our medic was a doper and I
was advised not to call for him in the future and either take care of
the problem myself, let another soldier do it, or get myself
medivaced out. Some multiple riverine force guys stopped and asked if
we had a medic, we said no.
I asked the medic for some morphine for a wounded buddy, he smiled and
said we were out.
4.Huey's going in and shooting the enemy. Cobra's and LOACHs yes.
No Cobras, no LOACHs in 1965.
5. Showing emotion. ( after the first 12 hours in Country, I was
devoid of emotion, and had accepted the fact that I would not survive
this.)
Hollywood.
6. Showing sympathy for the wounded. We were told the only way we
could get wounded, after all of the training we had was because we
messed up. No sympathy, just yelled at for scratching our balls and
thinking about the girl back home, when we should have been paying
attention.
A little bit of Hollywood.
His question at the end, Why did so many die and I live, has haunted
me.
I think the survivors of the assault on Ur asked themselves the same
question.
.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: O.T. Mel Gibson's We were Soldiers |
14 Nov 2004 01:02:05 PM |
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Eris wrote:
<snip>
A minor skirmish in the summer of 1968. Our medic was a doper and I
was advised not to call for him in the future and either take care of
the problem myself, let another soldier do it, or get myself
medivaced out. Some multiple riverine force guys stopped and asked if
we had a medic, we said no.
I asked the medic for some morphine for a wounded buddy, he smiled and
said we were out.
My good friend Dave was a navy medic with a bunch of marines. His only
comment about it has been that they took pretty good care of him. I suspect
it was because he did the same.
.
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: O.T. Mel Gibson's We were Soldiers |
14 Nov 2004 09:59:15 PM |
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"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:NYNld.41758$QJ3.5132@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com:
Eris wrote:
<snip>
A minor skirmish in the summer of 1968. Our medic was a doper and I
was advised not to call for him in the future and either take care of
the problem myself, let another soldier do it, or get myself
medivaced out. Some multiple riverine force guys stopped and asked if
we had a medic, we said no.
I asked the medic for some morphine for a wounded buddy, he smiled
and said we were out.
My good friend Dave was a navy medic with a bunch of marines. His only
comment about it has been that they took pretty good care of him. I
suspect it was because he did the same.
Navy corpsmen have earned more Medals of Honor than any other group of
any other service. Kind of funny, isn't it, when they go unarmed except
for a pistol.
--
Enkidu
"Yee-Ha" is not a foreign policy.
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| User: "nJb" |
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| Title: Re: O.T. Mel Gibson's We were Soldiers |
15 Nov 2004 12:51:01 AM |
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Enkidu wrote:
Navy corpsmen have earned more Medals of Honor than any other group of
any other service. Kind of funny, isn't it, when they go unarmed except
for a pistol.
--
Enkidu
"Yee-Ha" is not a foreign policy.
I won't challenge your claim, you're likely correct. Their job is to
help the wounded and when they hear a cry for help they go to work.
Heroism would abound. They have my utmost respect regardless of their
beliefs or political persuasion. Too bad many believers wouldn't afford
them the same respect.
Jack
#x??x?x
When sandwiches are outlawed, only outlaws will have sandwiches.
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| User: "Eris" |
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| Title: Re: O.T. Mel Gibson's We were Soldiers |
14 Nov 2004 05:58:57 PM |
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On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:02:05 GMT, "Mike Painter"
<mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Eris wrote:
<snip>
A minor skirmish in the summer of 1968. Our medic was a doper and I
was advised not to call for him in the future and either take care of
the problem myself, let another soldier do it, or get myself
medivaced out. Some multiple riverine force guys stopped and asked if
we had a medic, we said no.
I asked the medic for some morphine for a wounded buddy, he smiled and
said we were out.
My good friend Dave was a navy medic with a bunch of marines. His only
comment about it has been that they took pretty good care of him. I suspect
it was because he did the same.
I never once thought that our "medic" was in anyway representative of
medic's in general. But it makes sense to wait until things cool down
before crawling over to help someone.
Also the Military treats the least wounded first. My German friend
said that this cause a lot of hard feelings after a tragedy at an air
show in Germany.
.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: O.T. Mel Gibson's We were Soldiers |
14 Nov 2004 07:38:37 PM |
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Eris wrote:
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:02:05 GMT, "Mike Painter"
<mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Eris wrote:
<snip>
A minor skirmish in the summer of 1968. Our medic was a doper and I
was advised not to call for him in the future and either take care
of the problem myself, let another soldier do it, or get myself
medivaced out. Some multiple riverine force guys stopped and asked
if we had a medic, we said no.
I asked the medic for some morphine for a wounded buddy, he smiled
and said we were out.
My good friend Dave was a navy medic with a bunch of marines. His
only comment about it has been that they took pretty good care of
him. I suspect it was because he did the same.
I never once thought that our "medic" was in anyway representative of
medic's in general. But it makes sense to wait until things cool down
before crawling over to help someone.
Also the Military treats the least wounded first. My German friend
said that this cause a lot of hard feelings after a tragedy at an air
show in Germany.
That makes a certain amount of sense in a combat setting but you would think
even a military mind could do proper triage in such a case.
However if they have never been in such a situation people tend to perform
as they practice.
.
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