| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"chibiabos" |
| Date: |
25 Jan 2005 03:56:47 AM |
| Object: |
OT: Methane |
Flash Point,°C -188
Autoignition, °C 600
Upper exp. limit, %15
Lower exp. limit, %5
Fire fighting: DO NOT EXTINGUISH A LEAKING GAS FIRE UNLESS LEAK CAN BE
STOPPED. SMALL FIRES: Dry chemical or CO2. LARGE FIRES: Water spray or
fog. Move containers from fire area if you can do it without risk. FIRE
INVOLVING TANKS: Fight fire from maximum distance or use unmanned hose
holders or monitor nozzles. Cool containers with flooding quantities of
water until well after fire is out. Do not direct water at source of
leak or safety devices; icing may occur. Withdraw immediately in case
of rising sound from venting safety devices or discoloration of tank.
ALWAYS stay away from tanks engulfed in fire. For massive fire, use
unmanned hose holders or monitor nozzles; if this is impossible,
withdraw from area and let fire burn.
Fire potential: EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE.
Hazards: Vapors from liquefied gas are initially heavier than air and
spread along ground. Vapors may travel to source of ignition and flash
back. Containers may explode when heated. Ruptured cylinders may
rocket.
Combustion products: None
NFPA
Health 2
Flammability 4
Reactivity 0
Special -
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From the ESA Cassini-Huygens website:
"The Huygens probe can withstand temperatures of up to 18 000°C in
front of the heat shield. The heat generated as Huygens travelled
through Titan's thick gas atmosphere was immense."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ahem, so . . . . Stupid question here:
Why didn't Titan's methane-rich atmosphere flash into a planet-wide
explosion when Huygens plunged into its upper clouds, generating heat
well in excess of methane's flash point?
For that matter, why don't the smallest meteorites ignite Titan's
atmosphere?
Inquiring minds want to know.
There's a good science fiction story in here somewhere.
-chib
--
Member of S.M.A.S.H.
Sarcastic Middle-aged Atheists with a Sense of Humor
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| User: "Mark Atwood" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Methane |
08 Mar 2005 11:03:43 AM |
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chibiabos <chib@nospam.com> writes:
Ahem, so . . . . Stupid question here:
Why didn't Titan's methane-rich atmosphere flash into a planet-wide
explosion when Huygens plunged into its upper clouds, generating heat
well in excess of methane's flash point?
For that matter, why don't the smallest meteorites ignite Titan's
atmosphere?
Inquiring minds want to know.
There's a good science fiction story in here somewhere.
The stupid answer to your stupid question is that there are no free
oxidizers (such as, as exist on Earth, free oxygen) for Titan's
reducing methane atmosphere to react with.
And the science fiction has been written even. One of Asimov's
Mysteries. The gimmick of which is, on Titan, tanks of methane are
pretty much inert, but tanks of oxygen are highly explosive.
--
Mark Atwood | When you do things right, people won't be sure
mark@atwood.name | you've done anything at all.
http://mark.atwood.name/ http://www.livejournal.com/users/fallenpegasus
.
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| User: "Elf M. Sternberg" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Methane |
25 Jan 2005 05:05:14 PM |
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chibiabos <chib@nospam.com> writes:
Why didn't Titan's methane-rich atmosphere flash into a planet-wide
explosion when Huygens plunged into its upper clouds, generating heat
well in excess of methane's flash point?
Not enough free oxygen to cause ignition.
Elf
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| User: "John Popelish" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Methane |
25 Jan 2005 04:26:28 AM |
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chibiabos wrote:
=
Flash Point,=B0C -188
=
Autoignition, =B0C 600
=
Upper exp. limit, %15
=
Lower exp. limit, %5
=
Fire fighting: DO NOT EXTINGUISH A LEAKING GAS FIRE UNLESS LEAK CAN BE
STOPPED. SMALL FIRES: Dry chemical or CO2. LARGE FIRES: Water spray or
fog. Move containers from fire area if you can do it without risk. FIRE=
INVOLVING TANKS: Fight fire from maximum distance or use unmanned hose
holders or monitor nozzles. Cool containers with flooding quantities of=
water until well after fire is out. Do not direct water at source of
leak or safety devices; icing may occur. Withdraw immediately in case
of rising sound from venting safety devices or discoloration of tank.
ALWAYS stay away from tanks engulfed in fire. For massive fire, use
unmanned hose holders or monitor nozzles; if this is impossible,
withdraw from area and let fire burn.
=
Fire potential: EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE.
=
Hazards: Vapors from liquefied gas are initially heavier than air and
spread along ground. Vapors may travel to source of ignition and flash
back. Containers may explode when heated. Ruptured cylinders may
rocket.
=
Combustion products: None
=
NFPA
Health 2
=
Flammability 4
=
Reactivity 0
=
Special -
=
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From the ESA Cassini-Huygens website:
=
"The Huygens probe can withstand temperatures of up to 18 000=B0C in
front of the heat shield. The heat generated as Huygens travelled
through Titan's thick gas atmosphere was immense."
=
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
=
Ahem, so . . . . Stupid question here:
=
Why didn't Titan's methane-rich atmosphere flash into a planet-wide
explosion when Huygens plunged into its upper clouds, generating heat
well in excess of methane's flash point?
=
For that matter, why don't the smallest meteorites ignite Titan's
atmosphere?
=
Inquiring minds want to know.
=
There's a good science fiction story in here somewhere.
These 4 specs:
Flash Point,=B0C -188
=
Autoignition, =B0C 600
=
Upper exp. limit, %15
=
Lower exp. limit, %5
only apply in a 20% oxygen, 80% nitrogen atmosphere.
There is only a microscopic trace of oxygen in Titan's atmosphere. =
The exact composition will be released soon as a result of the
measurements made during the Huygens descent, but I suspect the oxygen
will be in parts per million if not parts per billion.
=
-- =
John Popelish
.
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| User: "chibiabos" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Methane |
25 Jan 2005 01:16:06 PM |
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In article <41F5CA74.B4D2114A@rica.net>, John Popelish
<jpopelish@rica.net> wrote:
These 4 specs:
Flash Point,°C -188
Autoignition, °C 600
Upper exp. limit, %15
Lower exp. limit, %5
only apply in a 20% oxygen, 80% nitrogen atmosphere.
There is only a microscopic trace of oxygen in Titan's atmosphere.
The exact composition will be released soon as a result of the
measurements made during the Huygens descent, but I suspect the oxygen
will be in parts per million if not parts per billion.
Okay. Thanks.
-chib
--
Member of S.M.A.S.H.
Sarcastic Middle-aged Atheists with a Sense of Humor
.
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| User: "John Popelish" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Methane |
25 Jan 2005 05:24:21 AM |
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John Popelish wrote:
=
chibiabos wrote:
Flash Point,=B0C -188
Autoignition, =B0C 600
Upper exp. limit, %15
Lower exp. limit, %5
Fire fighting: DO NOT EXTINGUISH A LEAKING GAS FIRE UNLESS LEAK CAN B=
E
STOPPED. SMALL FIRES: Dry chemical or CO2. LARGE FIRES: Water spray o=
r
fog. Move containers from fire area if you can do it without risk. FI=
RE
INVOLVING TANKS: Fight fire from maximum distance or use unmanned hos=
e
holders or monitor nozzles. Cool containers with flooding quantities =
of
water until well after fire is out. Do not direct water at source of
leak or safety devices; icing may occur. Withdraw immediately in case=
of rising sound from venting safety devices or discoloration of tank.=
ALWAYS stay away from tanks engulfed in fire. For massive fire, use
unmanned hose holders or monitor nozzles; if this is impossible,
withdraw from area and let fire burn.
Fire potential: EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE.
Hazards: Vapors from liquefied gas are initially heavier than air an=
d
spread along ground. Vapors may travel to source of ignition and flas=
h
back. Containers may explode when heated. Ruptured cylinders may
rocket.
Combustion products: None
NFPA
Health 2
Flammability 4
Reactivity 0
Special -
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From the ESA Cassini-Huygens website:
"The Huygens probe can withstand temperatures of up to 18 000=B0C in
front of the heat shield. The heat generated as Huygens travelled
through Titan's thick gas atmosphere was immense."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ahem, so . . . . Stupid question here:
Why didn't Titan's methane-rich atmosphere flash into a planet-wide
explosion when Huygens plunged into its upper clouds, generating heat=
well in excess of methane's flash point?
For that matter, why don't the smallest meteorites ignite Titan's
atmosphere?
Inquiring minds want to know.
There's a good science fiction story in here somewhere.
=
These 4 specs:
Flash Point,=B0C -188
Autoignition, =B0C 600
Upper exp. limit, %15
Lower exp. limit, %5
=
only apply in a 20% oxygen, 80% nitrogen atmosphere.
Slight correction. That should be 21% oxygen and an atmospheric
pressure equal to that on Earth at sea level. Changing either the
composition or pressure alters all 4 of those properties. These
conditions are so common on Earth that they are assumed for such lists
of properties. When I have to deal with reactor vessels, it can be
quite a challenge to find the properties of materials under other
conditions.
-- =
John Popelish
.
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| User: "FreeThink" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Methane |
25 Jan 2005 04:18:29 AM |
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John Popelish wrote:
chibiabos wrote:
Flash Point,=B0C -188
Autoignition, =B0C 600
Upper exp. limit, %15
Lower exp. limit, %5
Fire fighting: DO NOT EXTINGUISH A LEAKING GAS FIRE UNLESS LEAK CAN
BE
STOPPED. SMALL FIRES: Dry chemical or CO2. LARGE FIRES: Water spray
or
fog. Move containers from fire area if you can do it without risk.
FIRE
INVOLVING TANKS: Fight fire from maximum distance or use unmanned
hose
holders or monitor nozzles. Cool containers with flooding
quantities of
water until well after fire is out. Do not direct water at source
of
leak or safety devices; icing may occur. Withdraw immediately in
case
of rising sound from venting safety devices or discoloration of
tank.
ALWAYS stay away from tanks engulfed in fire. For massive fire, use
unmanned hose holders or monitor nozzles; if this is impossible,
withdraw from area and let fire burn.
Fire potential: EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE.
Hazards: Vapors from liquefied gas are initially heavier than air
and
spread along ground. Vapors may travel to source of ignition and
flash
back. Containers may explode when heated. Ruptured cylinders may
rocket.
Combustion products: None
NFPA
Health 2
Flammability 4
Reactivity 0
Special -
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From the ESA Cassini-Huygens website:
"The Huygens probe can withstand temperatures of up to 18 000=B0C in
front of the heat shield. The heat generated as Huygens travelled
through Titan's thick gas atmosphere was immense."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ahem, so . . . . Stupid question here:
Why didn't Titan's methane-rich atmosphere flash into a planet-wide
explosion when Huygens plunged into its upper clouds, generating
heat
well in excess of methane's flash point?
For that matter, why don't the smallest meteorites ignite Titan's
atmosphere?
Inquiring minds want to know.
There's a good science fiction story in here somewhere.
These 4 specs:
Flash Point,=B0C -188
Autoignition, =B0C 600
Upper exp. limit, %15
Lower exp. limit, %5
only apply in a 20% oxygen, 80% nitrogen atmosphere.
There is only a microscopic trace of oxygen in Titan's atmosphere.
The exact composition will be released soon as a result of the
measurements made during the Huygens descent, but I suspect the
oxygen
will be in parts per million if not parts per billion.
--
John Popelish
Well it's good to hear that they remembered to turn that experiment on!
:-)
.
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| User: "FreeThink" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Methane |
25 Jan 2005 04:03:17 AM |
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chibiabos wrote:
Flash Point,=B0C -188
Autoignition, =B0C 600
Upper exp. limit, %15
Lower exp. limit, %5
Fire fighting: DO NOT EXTINGUISH A LEAKING GAS FIRE UNLESS LEAK CAN
BE
STOPPED. SMALL FIRES: Dry chemical or CO2. LARGE FIRES: Water spray
or
fog. Move containers from fire area if you can do it without risk.
FIRE
INVOLVING TANKS: Fight fire from maximum distance or use unmanned
hose
holders or monitor nozzles. Cool containers with flooding quantities
of
water until well after fire is out. Do not direct water at source of
leak or safety devices; icing may occur. Withdraw immediately in case
of rising sound from venting safety devices or discoloration of tank.
ALWAYS stay away from tanks engulfed in fire. For massive fire, use
unmanned hose holders or monitor nozzles; if this is impossible,
withdraw from area and let fire burn.
Fire potential: EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE.
Hazards: Vapors from liquefied gas are initially heavier than air
and
spread along ground. Vapors may travel to source of ignition and
flash
back. Containers may explode when heated. Ruptured cylinders may
rocket.
Combustion products: None
NFPA
Health 2
Flammability 4
=20
Reactivity 0
=20
Special -
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From the ESA Cassini-Huygens website:
"The Huygens probe can withstand temperatures of up to 18 000=B0C in
front of the heat shield. The heat generated as Huygens travelled
through Titan's thick gas atmosphere was immense."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ahem, so . . . . Stupid question here:
Why didn't Titan's methane-rich atmosphere flash into a planet-wide
explosion when Huygens plunged into its upper clouds, generating heat
well in excess of methane's flash point?
For that matter, why don't the smallest meteorites ignite Titan's
atmosphere?
Inquiring minds want to know.
There's a good science fiction story in here somewhere.
-chib
--
Member of S.M.A.S.H.
Sarcastic Middle-aged Atheists with a Sense of Humor
Oxygen
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Methane |
26 Jan 2005 11:10:21 PM |
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"FreeThink" <zeno7772004@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1106625797.956839.302550@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
chibiabos wrote:
Flash Point,°C -188
Autoignition, °C 600
Upper exp. limit, %15
Lower exp. limit, %5
Fire fighting: DO NOT EXTINGUISH A LEAKING GAS FIRE UNLESS LEAK CAN
BE
STOPPED. SMALL FIRES: Dry chemical or CO2. LARGE FIRES: Water spray
or
fog. Move containers from fire area if you can do it without risk.
FIRE
INVOLVING TANKS: Fight fire from maximum distance or use unmanned
hose
holders or monitor nozzles. Cool containers with flooding quantities
of
water until well after fire is out. Do not direct water at source of
leak or safety devices; icing may occur. Withdraw immediately in case
of rising sound from venting safety devices or discoloration of tank.
ALWAYS stay away from tanks engulfed in fire. For massive fire, use
unmanned hose holders or monitor nozzles; if this is impossible,
withdraw from area and let fire burn.
Fire potential: EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE.
Hazards: Vapors from liquefied gas are initially heavier than air
and
spread along ground. Vapors may travel to source of ignition and
flash
back. Containers may explode when heated. Ruptured cylinders may
rocket.
Combustion products: None
NFPA
Health 2
Flammability 4
Reactivity 0
Special -
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From the ESA Cassini-Huygens website:
"The Huygens probe can withstand temperatures of up to 18 000°C in
front of the heat shield. The heat generated as Huygens travelled
through Titan's thick gas atmosphere was immense."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ahem, so . . . . Stupid question here:
Why didn't Titan's methane-rich atmosphere flash into a planet-wide
explosion when Huygens plunged into its upper clouds, generating heat
well in excess of methane's flash point?
For that matter, why don't the smallest meteorites ignite Titan's
atmosphere?
Inquiring minds want to know.
There's a good science fiction story in here somewhere.
-chib
--
Member of S.M.A.S.H.
Sarcastic Middle-aged Atheists with a Sense of Humor
Oxygen
Or more precisely, the lack of oxygen.
.
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| User: "Glenn Arnold" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Methane |
25 Jan 2005 11:02:18 PM |
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chibiabos wrote:
Flash Point,°C -188
Autoignition, °C 600
Upper exp. limit, %15
Lower exp. limit, %5
Fire fighting: DO NOT EXTINGUISH A LEAKING GAS FIRE UNLESS LEAK CAN BE
STOPPED. SMALL FIRES: Dry chemical or CO2. LARGE FIRES: Water spray or
fog. Move containers from fire area if you can do it without risk. FIRE
INVOLVING TANKS: Fight fire from maximum distance or use unmanned hose
holders or monitor nozzles. Cool containers with flooding quantities of
water until well after fire is out. Do not direct water at source of
leak or safety devices; icing may occur. Withdraw immediately in case
of rising sound from venting safety devices or discoloration of tank.
ALWAYS stay away from tanks engulfed in fire. For massive fire, use
unmanned hose holders or monitor nozzles; if this is impossible,
withdraw from area and let fire burn.
Fire potential: EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE.
Hazards: Vapors from liquefied gas are initially heavier than air and
spread along ground. Vapors may travel to source of ignition and flash
back. Containers may explode when heated. Ruptured cylinders may
rocket.
Combustion products: None
NFPA
Health 2
Flammability 4
Reactivity 0
Special -
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From the ESA Cassini-Huygens website:
"The Huygens probe can withstand temperatures of up to 18 000°C in
front of the heat shield. The heat generated as Huygens travelled
through Titan's thick gas atmosphere was immense."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ahem, so . . . . Stupid question here:
Why didn't Titan's methane-rich atmosphere flash into a planet-wide
explosion when Huygens plunged into its upper clouds, generating heat
well in excess of methane's flash point?
For that matter, why don't the smallest meteorites ignite Titan's
atmosphere?
Inquiring minds want to know.
There's a good science fiction story in here somewhere.
-chib
You forgot Non-toxic.
Well, as far as science fiction stories are concerned, how about one
where Titan crashes into the earth, and erupts into a fireball, because
the earth has an oxygen atmosphere. But then it doesn't really matter,
because the shock wave destroys all life on earth before anyone gets to
see the fire.
Or, the oil companies divert the orbit of Titan near Earth so they can
mine it to provide a (near) limitless source of energy, and raise the
CO2 content of the atmosphere to 3%, and lowering the O2 content to 16%
and destroying all aerobic life forms.
Glenn Arnold
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| User: "Carl Kaufmann" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Methane |
25 Jan 2005 08:25:12 PM |
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chibiabos wrote:
Flash Point,°C -188
Autoignition, °C 600
Upper exp. limit, %15
Lower exp. limit, %5
Fire fighting: DO NOT EXTINGUISH A LEAKING GAS FIRE UNLESS LEAK CAN BE
STOPPED. SMALL FIRES: Dry chemical or CO2. LARGE FIRES: Water spray or
fog. Move containers from fire area if you can do it without risk. FIRE
INVOLVING TANKS: Fight fire from maximum distance or use unmanned hose
holders or monitor nozzles. Cool containers with flooding quantities of
water until well after fire is out. Do not direct water at source of
leak or safety devices; icing may occur. Withdraw immediately in case
of rising sound from venting safety devices or discoloration of tank.
ALWAYS stay away from tanks engulfed in fire. For massive fire, use
unmanned hose holders or monitor nozzles; if this is impossible,
withdraw from area and let fire burn.
Fire potential: EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE.
Hazards: Vapors from liquefied gas are initially heavier than air and
spread along ground. Vapors may travel to source of ignition and flash
back. Containers may explode when heated. Ruptured cylinders may
rocket.
Combustion products: None
NFPA
Health 2
Flammability 4
Reactivity 0
Special -
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From the ESA Cassini-Huygens website:
"The Huygens probe can withstand temperatures of up to 18 000°C in
front of the heat shield. The heat generated as Huygens travelled
through Titan's thick gas atmosphere was immense."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ahem, so . . . . Stupid question here:
Why didn't Titan's methane-rich atmosphere flash into a planet-wide
explosion when Huygens plunged into its upper clouds, generating heat
well in excess of methane's flash point?
Insufficient oxidant.
For that matter, why don't the smallest meteorites ignite Titan's
atmosphere?
Insufficient oxidant.
Inquiring minds want to know.
Informed minds have enlightened you.
There's a good science fiction story in here somewhere.
There are many stories involving Titan and its methane atmosphere.
To the best of my knowledge, none of them involve it being set on fire.
-chib
--
EAC Liar, Damned Liar, and Statistician
alt.atheist #1966
"Statistical thinking will one day be as necessary for efficient
citizenship as the ability to read and write." - H.G. Wells
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