Religions > Atheism > OT: Moron McClellan's $63 million excuse about iraqi postal service.
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"quibbler" |
| Date: |
27 Sep 2003 10:04:45 AM |
| Object: |
OT: Moron McClellan's $63 million excuse about iraqi postal service. |
In a press conference on Sept. 26, chief liar-for-bush Scott McClellan
asserted that the $87 billion check the Bush mis-administration wants
Congress to put in its hot little hands, no questions asked, is "part
of a wartime supplemental to make sure our troops have the resources
they need to do their job, and to make sure we create a secure
environment for our troops to succeed." But when challenged about
whether it was really essential to the war on terrorism and our
soldiers to spend $54 million to study the Iraqi postal service and
another $9 million to introduce zip codes, he digressed into a truly
moronic rationalization. Here it is from his own lips (an obviously
prescripted talking point):
"Well, let me give you a little bit of history here. I think that if
you look back at America, our Constitutional Congress was organized in
Philadelphia in 1775 to establish an independent government. What was
one of the first actions that they worked to address? It was to deliver
the mail. Because the postal system that Congress created helped to
bring the new nation together, it helped support the growth of
commerce, and it helped ensure a free flow of ideas and information. So
look back to our own history and you can see how that's important to
building the institutions necessary for a democracy to succeed."
There are only a few minor problems with his ludicrous assertion.
Firstly, that was 228 years ago and communications have changed just a
wee bit since then. Among other things Iraq has phones, fax machines,
satellite tv, etc. Secondly, Iraq already has a postal service,
whereas, the US was largely starting over from scratch. McClellan even
admits that Iraq has a postal service, but tried to claim that that it
had suffered under, "under 30 years of neglect." Lacking specific
evidence on his part, one can only assume that the 30 years to which he
refers is the entire reign of Saddam. It is highly questionable that
the Iraqi postal service just automatically got bad under Saddam, even
if Saddam's priorities were elsewhere. Thirdly, try as I may, I cannot
find any reference to the founding fathers doing a computerized study
of our mail system or implementing a ZIP code system. Finally, it's
not clear that this money will really rejuvenate the entire Iraqi
postal service. It may only be an insignificant band aid when more
direct action could be taken. What's needed right now is probably
postal carriers with nerves of steel, rather than computerized studies
and american style zip codes. If the US were to leave any time soon,
as some people like Powell have advocated, then the systems we are
paying so dearly for will probably be thrown into chaos again and all
of this will be for naught.
The fact is that the proposed $63 million for the two postal programs
have absolutely nothing to do with the war on terror or supporting our
soldiers in the field. This is money that should come at some later
juncture, most appropriately from Iraqi oil revenues. It is certainly
not emergency money that is critical, since, if Iraq got along for 30
years without it, as he claims, they can certainly survive another
year. What does he plan to do, send them all junk mail to get them to
support the indefinite occupation of their country? I mean let's get
real here. McClellan's explanation here is ridiculous, even by the
standards of Washington spin. If a member of the Clinton
administration tried this kind of dodge then he or she would have been
crucified by the media. Here, we barely get a peep from the press.
Where is the outrage?
--
_____________________________________________________
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
.
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| User: "Ted King" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Moron McClellan's $63 million excuse about iraqi postal service. |
27 Sep 2003 11:26:57 AM |
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In article <MPG.19df54f8b2dfcbd598a1e5@news.cis.dfn.de>,
quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:
In a press conference on Sept. 26, chief liar-for-bush Scott McClellan
asserted that the $87 billion check the Bush mis-administration wants
Congress to put in its hot little hands, no questions asked, is "part
of a wartime supplemental to make sure our troops have the resources
they need to do their job, and to make sure we create a secure
environment for our troops to succeed." But when challenged about
whether it was really essential to the war on terrorism and our
soldiers to spend $54 million to study the Iraqi postal service and
another $9 million to introduce zip codes, he digressed into a truly
moronic rationalization. Here it is from his own lips (an obviously
prescripted talking point):
"Well, let me give you a little bit of history here. I think that if
you look back at America, our Constitutional Congress was organized in
Philadelphia in 1775 to establish an independent government. What was
one of the first actions that they worked to address? It was to deliver
the mail. Because the postal system that Congress created helped to
bring the new nation together, it helped support the growth of
commerce, and it helped ensure a free flow of ideas and information. So
look back to our own history and you can see how that's important to
building the institutions necessary for a democracy to succeed."
There are only a few minor problems with his ludicrous assertion.
Firstly, that was 228 years ago and communications have changed just a
wee bit since then. Among other things Iraq has phones, fax machines,
satellite tv, etc. Secondly, Iraq already has a postal service,
whereas, the US was largely starting over from scratch. McClellan even
admits that Iraq has a postal service, but tried to claim that that it
had suffered under, "under 30 years of neglect." Lacking specific
evidence on his part, one can only assume that the 30 years to which he
refers is the entire reign of Saddam. It is highly questionable that
the Iraqi postal service just automatically got bad under Saddam, even
if Saddam's priorities were elsewhere. Thirdly, try as I may, I cannot
find any reference to the founding fathers doing a computerized study
of our mail system or implementing a ZIP code system. Finally, it's
not clear that this money will really rejuvenate the entire Iraqi
postal service. It may only be an insignificant band aid when more
direct action could be taken. What's needed right now is probably
postal carriers with nerves of steel, rather than computerized studies
and american style zip codes. If the US were to leave any time soon,
as some people like Powell have advocated, then the systems we are
paying so dearly for will probably be thrown into chaos again and all
of this will be for naught.
The fact is that the proposed $63 million for the two postal programs
have absolutely nothing to do with the war on terror or supporting our
soldiers in the field. This is money that should come at some later
juncture, most appropriately from Iraqi oil revenues. It is certainly
not emergency money that is critical, since, if Iraq got along for 30
years without it, as he claims, they can certainly survive another
year. What does he plan to do, send them all junk mail to get them to
support the indefinite occupation of their country? I mean let's get
real here. McClellan's explanation here is ridiculous, even by the
standards of Washington spin. If a member of the Clinton
administration tried this kind of dodge then he or she would have been
crucified by the media. Here, we barely get a peep from the press.
Where is the outrage?
It seems pretty clear to me that many of the items in the budget request
for Iraq from the Bush administration are for efforts to try to get
modes of thought and action into place in Iraq that leads to systems and
inclinations within Iraq that will incline them to look favorably and
first to the United States in economic and political matters when they
finally have a recognized government in charge of its own affairs. (For
example, IIRC, there is something like $80 million dollars requested to
teach English as a second language to Iraqis.) It may work, but there
are so many factors at play (e.g., US support for Israel) that all those
efforts may be washed away. They went into the war without a plan for
after the war, and now they're just winging it. My guess is that things
won't work out as bad as my worst fears but I'd bet that it won't work
out nearly as nicely as those who pushed for a war NOW fantasized that
it would.
Ted
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Moron McClellan's $63 million excuse about iraqi postal service. |
27 Sep 2003 05:26:38 PM |
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On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 16:26:57 GMT, Ted King <lodited@yahoo.com> posted
in alt.atheism:
They went into the war without a plan for after the war, and now they're just winging it.
I doubt it. Follow the money. Who's getting paid for the
computerized study? Who's getting paid to implement the ZIP code
system? Who's getting paid to set up and run the ESL program?
--
"To assume the existence of an unperceivable being ... does not facilitate understanding
the orderliness we find in the perceivable world."
- Letter to an Iowa student who asked, What is God? July, 1953; Einstein Archive 59-085
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Moron McClellan's $63 million excuse about iraqi postal service. |
28 Sep 2003 02:11:56 AM |
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In article <kq2cnv05cd4gvqda9timcieq9a7fd5uuth@Pern.rk>,
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 16:26:57 GMT, Ted King <lodited@yahoo.com> posted
in alt.atheism:
They went into the war without a plan for after the war, and now they're
just winging it.
I doubt it. Follow the money. Who's getting paid for the
computerized study? Who's getting paid to implement the ZIP code
system? Who's getting paid to set up and run the ESL program?
The money follows a great circle route from Washington to Baghdad then
back to the pockets of Dubya's rich friends and big campaign
contributors.
--
John Hachmann, aa #1782
Pierre Laplace, when asked by Napoleon on why he made
no mention of a god in his book on astronomy: "Sire,
I have no need of that hypothesis."
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Moron McClellan's $63 million excuse about iraqi postal service. |
28 Sep 2003 09:06:42 AM |
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On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 00:11:56 -0700, johac wrote:
In article <kq2cnv05cd4gvqda9timcieq9a7fd5uuth@Pern.rk>,
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 16:26:57 GMT, Ted King <lodited@yahoo.com> posted
in alt.atheism:
They went into the war without a plan for after the war, and now they're
just winging it.
I doubt it. Follow the money. Who's getting paid for the
computerized study? Who's getting paid to implement the ZIP code
system? Who's getting paid to set up and run the ESL program?
The money follows a great circle route from Washington to Baghdad then
back to the pockets of Dubya's rich friends and big campaign
contributors.
Well, Dubya was raised so privileged, he can't imagine it being any other
way...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
From alt.atheism only
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Moron McClellan's $63 million excuse about iraqi postal service. |
28 Sep 2003 04:13:44 PM |
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On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:06:42 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<iskanipa-y@hoo.com> posted in alt.atheism:
Well, Dubya was raised so privileged, he can't imagine it being any other
way...
Dumbya was raised so privileged that he can't imagine that anyone
who's not privileged is really human.
--
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
- Isaac Asimov
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Moron McClellan's $63 million excuse about iraqi postal service. |
28 Sep 2003 11:18:17 PM |
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In article <nmjenvspaq8j8umpthfij6la8mherlln8i@Pern.rk>,
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:06:42 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<iskanipa-y@hoo.com> posted in alt.atheism:
Well, Dubya was raised so privileged, he can't imagine it being any other
way...
Dumbya was raised so privileged that he can't imagine that anyone
who's not privileged is really human.
He probably thinks of the rest of us as the 'help'.
--
John Hachmann, aa #1782
Pierre Laplace, when asked by Napoleon on why he made
no mention of a god in his book on astronomy: "Sire,
I have no need of that hypothesis."
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Moron McClellan's $63 million excuse about iraqi postal service. |
29 Sep 2003 01:01:30 PM |
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On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:18:17 -0700, johac wrote:
In article <nmjenvspaq8j8umpthfij6la8mherlln8i@Pern.rk>,
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:06:42 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<iskanipa-y@hoo.com> posted in alt.atheism:
Well, Dubya was raised so privileged, he can't imagine it being any other
way...
Dumbya was raised so privileged that he can't imagine that anyone
who's not privileged is really human.
He probably thinks of the rest of us as the 'help'.
Of course he does! What else are all those little people for anyway?
--
Mark K. Bilbo
From alt.atheism only
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Moron McClellan's $63 million excuse about iraqi postal service. |
30 Sep 2003 12:25:55 AM |
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In article <pan.2003.09.29.18.01.30.105070@eac.org>,
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote:
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:18:17 -0700, johac wrote:
In article <nmjenvspaq8j8umpthfij6la8mherlln8i@Pern.rk>,
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:06:42 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<iskanipa-y@hoo.com> posted in alt.atheism:
Well, Dubya was raised so privileged, he can't imagine it being any other
way...
Dumbya was raised so privileged that he can't imagine that anyone
who's not privileged is really human.
He probably thinks of the rest of us as the 'help'.
Of course he does! What else are all those little people for anyway?
We can also serve as cannon fodder, next time he wants to invade a
small country for no good reason.
--
John Hachmann, aa #1782
Pierre Laplace, when asked by Napoleon on why he made
no mention of a god in his book on astronomy: "Sire,
I have no need of that hypothesis."
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Moron McClellan's $63 million excuse about iraqi postal service. |
30 Sep 2003 09:21:18 AM |
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On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:25:55 -0700, johac wrote:
In article <pan.2003.09.29.18.01.30.105070@eac.org>,
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote:
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:18:17 -0700, johac wrote:
In article <nmjenvspaq8j8umpthfij6la8mherlln8i@Pern.rk>,
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:06:42 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<iskanipa-y@hoo.com> posted in alt.atheism:
Well, Dubya was raised so privileged, he can't imagine it being any other
way...
Dumbya was raised so privileged that he can't imagine that anyone
who's not privileged is really human.
He probably thinks of the rest of us as the 'help'.
Of course he does! What else are all those little people for anyway?
We can also serve as cannon fodder, next time he wants to invade a
small country for no good reason.
Well, yeah. I mean, if the help won't defend the real people, what *good
are they?
--
Mark K. Bilbo
From alt.atheism only
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Moron McClellan's $63 million excuse about iraqi postal service. |
01 Oct 2003 12:07:36 AM |
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In article <pan.2003.09.30.14.21.17.719844@eac.org>,
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote:
On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:25:55 -0700, johac wrote:
In article <pan.2003.09.29.18.01.30.105070@eac.org>,
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote:
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:18:17 -0700, johac wrote:
In article <nmjenvspaq8j8umpthfij6la8mherlln8i@Pern.rk>,
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:06:42 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<iskanipa-y@hoo.com> posted in alt.atheism:
Well, Dubya was raised so privileged, he can't imagine it being any
other
way...
Dumbya was raised so privileged that he can't imagine that anyone
who's not privileged is really human.
He probably thinks of the rest of us as the 'help'.
Of course he does! What else are all those little people for anyway?
We can also serve as cannon fodder, next time he wants to invade a
small country for no good reason.
Well, yeah. I mean, if the help won't defend the real people, what *good
are they?
If the help are good for nothing, they are only taking up space. Ship
'em all off to Iraq.
--
John Hachmann, aa #1782
Pierre Laplace, when asked by Napoleon on why he made
no mention of a god in his book on astronomy: "Sire,
I have no need of that hypothesis."
.
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| User: "quibbler" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Moron McClellan's $63 million excuse about iraqi postal service. |
28 Sep 2003 06:39:23 PM |
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In article <nmjenvspaq8j8umpthfij6la8mherlln8i@Pern.rk>,
rukbat@pern.invalid says...
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:06:42 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<iskanipa-y@hoo.com> posted in alt.atheism:
Well, Dubya was raised so privileged, he can't imagine it being any other
way...
Dumbya was raised so privileged that he can't imagine that anyone
who's not privileged is really human.
Imagining things requires a mind. Therefore, Bush is incapable of
such things. He's only a bundle of knee jerk responses and conditioned
reflexes for the protection of wealth and privilege.
--
_____________________________________________________
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Moron McClellan's $63 million excuse about iraqi postal service. |
29 Sep 2003 09:42:16 PM |
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On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:39:23 -0600, quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com>
posted in alt.atheism:
In article <nmjenvspaq8j8umpthfij6la8mherlln8i@Pern.rk>,
rukbat@pern.invalid says...
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:06:42 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<iskanipa-y@hoo.com> posted in alt.atheism:
Well, Dubya was raised so privileged, he can't imagine it being any other
way...
Dumbya was raised so privileged that he can't imagine that anyone
who's not privileged is really human.
Imagining things requires a mind. Therefore, Bush is incapable of
such things. He's only a bundle of knee jerk responses and conditioned
reflexes for the protection of wealth and privilege.
That much? I thought he was just a suit.
--
"I have never imputed to Nature a purpose or a goal, or anything that could be under-
stood as anthropomorphic. What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can
comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of
humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism."
- 1954 or 1955; quoted in Dukas and Hoffman _Albert Einstein the Human Side_, p. 39
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Moron McClellan's $63 million excuse about iraqi postal service. |
28 Sep 2003 05:12:26 PM |
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On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:13:44 +0000, Al Klein wrote:
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:06:42 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<iskanipa-y@hoo.com> posted in alt.atheism:
Well, Dubya was raised so privileged, he can't imagine it being any other
way...
Dumbya was raised so privileged that he can't imagine that anyone
who's not privileged is really human.
Are you sure he's even aware there *are other people?
--
Mark K. Bilbo
From alt.atheism only
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Moron McClellan's $63 million excuse about iraqi postal service. |
29 Sep 2003 09:41:02 PM |
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On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:12:26 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<iskanipa-y@hoo.com> posted in alt.atheism:
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:13:44 +0000, Al Klein wrote:
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:06:42 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<iskanipa-y@hoo.com> posted in alt.atheism:
Well, Dubya was raised so privileged, he can't imagine it being any other
way...
Dumbya was raised so privileged that he can't imagine that anyone
who's not privileged is really human.
Are you sure he's even aware there *are other people?
He's like Leona. There are his kind (only a few) and everyone else,
including species such as humans and roaches.
--
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Moron McClellan's $63 million excuse about iraqi postal service. |
30 Sep 2003 12:24:12 AM |
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In article <o7rhnv46o9ekljoavm7ktj3kqvn7ctjvan@Pern.rk>,
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:12:26 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<iskanipa-y@hoo.com> posted in alt.atheism:
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:13:44 +0000, Al Klein wrote:
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:06:42 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<iskanipa-y@hoo.com> posted in alt.atheism:
Well, Dubya was raised so privileged, he can't imagine it being any other
way...
Dumbya was raised so privileged that he can't imagine that anyone
who's not privileged is really human.
Are you sure he's even aware there *are other people?
He's like Leona. There are his kind (only a few) and everyone else,
including species such as humans and roaches.
Ah, yes. The 'little people'.
--
John Hachmann, aa #1782
Pierre Laplace, when asked by Napoleon on why he made
no mention of a god in his book on astronomy: "Sire,
I have no need of that hypothesis."
.
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