Fred Stone wrote:

Jez <iced_spear@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com> wrote in
news:410667fb$0$6448$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com:

Fred Stone wrote:

raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote in
news:j3fbg05d7m1eamvac8sql7nd5b4numh26a@4ax.com:

On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 18:24:36 GMT, Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote in
news:410539AA.D0CBEA68@serv.net:

Does the author of these quotes hate America? Would today's
conservatives call him a liberal? Would today's conservatives
call him a traitor who helps to further the agenda of Al-Qaida
and other terrorists by undermining the President?

It's Barry Goldwater, and no, no, no and no.
Let's keep in mind that the party that is most worried about the
opinion of religious clerics is the Democrats with the communion
for abortion supporters issue. Falwell and the RR do *not*
represent the whole of the Republican party, much less the neocon
movement, unless you let ultraliberals define "neocon".

How do *you* define "neocon", Fred?

Any of the sixties "liberals" who went Republican after the
Democrats sold out to every special-interest that came for a
handout. P.J. O'Rourke, for example. They've generally internalized
the major social issues of the sixties but aren't prepared to throw
themselves on the fire for PETA or unlimited late-term abortions or
the Kyoto treaty.

They certainly don't act like any of Chomsky's strawmen.

Chomskys strawmen ????

You know, Chomsky: the noted semanticist who couldn't tell right from
wrong if you held a gun to his head.

Ah, your not talking of the highly esteemed author of such brilliant
works like 'Rouge States', 'manufacturing consent', 'Deterring
Democracy', 'Neccesary illusions' or even 'The new Military Humanism',
then.

Does the author of these quotes hate America? Would today's
conservatives call him a liberal? Would today's conservatives call him a
traitor who helps to further the agenda of Al-Qaida and other terrorists
by undermining the President?

Discuss :-)

"[F]reedom depends on effective restraints against the accumulation of
power in a single authority."

"We want to stay alive; but more than that we want to be free. We want
to have peace; but before that we want to have conditions that make
peace tolerable."

"Nothing could so far advance the cause of freedom as ... for the
federal government to withdraw promptly and totally from every
jurisdiction which the Constitution reserved to the states."

"I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this
country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I
must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are?
And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral
beliefs to me?"

"Now those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what
they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own
version of heaven on earth, and let me remind you they are the very ones
who always create the most hellish tyranny."

"Religious factions will go on imposing their will on others unless the
decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in
public policy. They must learn to make their views known without trying
to make their views the only alternatives."

"You don't need to be 'straight' to fight and die for your country. You
just need to shoot straight."

"Every good Christian should line up and kick Jerry Falwell's *****."

"I don't have any respect for the Religious Right. There is no place in
this country for practicing religion in politics. That goes for Falwell,
Robertson and all the rest of these political preachers. They are a
detriment to the country."

"By maintaining the separation of church and state, the United States
has avoided the intolerance which has so divided the rest of the world
with religious wars .... Can any of us refute the wisdom of Madison and
the other framers? Can anyone look at the carnage in Iran, the bloodshed
in Northem Ireland, or the bombs bursting in Lebanon and yet question
the dangers of injecting religious issues into the affairs of state?"

"Every good Christian should line up and kick Jerry Falwell's *****."

Does the author of these quotes hate America? Would today's
conservatives call him a liberal? Would today's conservatives call him a
traitor who helps to further the agenda of Al-Qaida and other terrorists
by undermining the President?

Discuss :-)

"[F]reedom depends on effective restraints against the accumulation of
power in a single authority."

"We want to stay alive; but more than that we want to be free. We want
to have peace; but before that we want to have conditions that make
peace tolerable."

"Nothing could so far advance the cause of freedom as ... for the
federal government to withdraw promptly and totally from every
jurisdiction which the Constitution reserved to the states."

"I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this
country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I
must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are?
And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral
beliefs to me?"

"Now those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what
they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own
version of heaven on earth, and let me remind you they are the very ones
who always create the most hellish tyranny."

"Religious factions will go on imposing their will on others unless the
decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in
public policy. They must learn to make their views known without trying
to make their views the only alternatives."

"You don't need to be 'straight' to fight and die for your country. You
just need to shoot straight."

"Every good Christian should line up and kick Jerry Falwell's *****."

"I don't have any respect for the Religious Right. There is no place in
this country for practicing religion in politics. That goes for Falwell,
Robertson and all the rest of these political preachers. They are a
detriment to the country."

"By maintaining the separation of church and state, the United States
has avoided the intolerance which has so divided the rest of the world
with religious wars .... Can any of us refute the wisdom of Madison and
the other framers? Can anyone look at the carnage in Iran, the bloodshed
in Northem Ireland, or the bombs bursting in Lebanon and yet question
the dangers of injecting religious issues into the affairs of state?"

Does the author of these quotes hate America?

Would today's
conservatives call him a liberal? Would today's conservatives call him a
traitor who helps to further the agenda of Al-Qaida and other terrorists
by undermining the President?

Discuss :-)

"[F]reedom depends on effective restraints against the accumulation of
power in a single authority."

"We want to stay alive; but more than that we want to be free. We want
to have peace; but before that we want to have conditions that make
peace tolerable."

"Nothing could so far advance the cause of freedom as ... for the
federal government to withdraw promptly and totally from every
jurisdiction which the Constitution reserved to the states."

"I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this
country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I
must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are?
And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral
beliefs to me?"

"Now those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what
they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own
version of heaven on earth, and let me remind you they are the very ones
who always create the most hellish tyranny."

"Religious factions will go on imposing their will on others unless the
decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in
public policy. They must learn to make their views known without trying
to make their views the only alternatives."

"You don't need to be 'straight' to fight and die for your country. You
just need to shoot straight."

"Every good Christian should line up and kick Jerry Falwell's *****."

"I don't have any respect for the Religious Right. There is no place in
this country for practicing religion in politics. That goes for Falwell,
Robertson and all the rest of these political preachers. They are a
detriment to the country."

"By maintaining the separation of church and state, the United States
has avoided the intolerance which has so divided the rest of the world
with religious wars .... Can any of us refute the wisdom of Madison and
the other framers? Can anyone look at the carnage in Iran, the bloodshed
in Northem Ireland, or the bombs bursting in Lebanon and yet question
the dangers of injecting religious issues into the affairs of state?"
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear

"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the
bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is
tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists
for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering, http://www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.htm