OT: Name that anti-American radical!

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"Gregory Gadow"
Date:	26 Jul 2004 12:04:42 PM
Object:	OT: Name that anti-American radical!

Does the author of these quotes hate America? Would today's
conservatives call him a liberal? Would today's conservatives call him a
traitor who helps to further the agenda of Al-Qaida and other terrorists
by undermining the President?
Discuss :-)
"[F]reedom depends on effective restraints against the accumulation of
power in a single authority."
"We want to stay alive; but more than that we want to be free. We want
to have peace; but before that we want to have conditions that make
peace tolerable."
"Nothing could so far advance the cause of freedom as ... for the
federal government to withdraw promptly and totally from every
jurisdiction which the Constitution reserved to the states."
"I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this
country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I
must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are?
And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral
beliefs to me?"
"Now those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what
they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own
version of heaven on earth, and let me remind you they are the very ones
who always create the most hellish tyranny."
"Religious factions will go on imposing their will on others unless the
decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in
public policy. They must learn to make their views known without trying
to make their views the only alternatives."
"You don't need to be 'straight' to fight and die for your country. You
just need to shoot straight."
"Every good Christian should line up and kick Jerry Falwell's *****."
"I don't have any respect for the Religious Right. There is no place in
this country for practicing religion in politics. That goes for Falwell,
Robertson and all the rest of these political preachers. They are a
detriment to the country."
"By maintaining the separation of church and state, the United States
has avoided the intolerance which has so divided the rest of the world
with religious wars .... Can any of us refute the wisdom of Madison and
the other framers? Can anyone look at the carnage in Iran, the bloodshed
in Northem Ireland, or the bombs bursting in Lebanon and yet question
the dangers of injecting religious issues into the affairs of state?"
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the
bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is
tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists
for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering, http://www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.htm
.

User: "kathryn"
Title: Re: Name that anti-American radical!	26 Jul 2004 12:54:12 PM

"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote in message
news:410539AA.D0CBEA68@serv.net...

Does the author of these quotes hate America? Would today's
conservatives call him a liberal? Would today's conservatives call him a
traitor who helps to further the agenda of Al-Qaida and other terrorists
by undermining the President?

Discuss :-)

"[F]reedom depends on effective restraints against the accumulation of
power in a single authority."

"We want to stay alive; but more than that we want to be free. We want
to have peace; but before that we want to have conditions that make
peace tolerable."

"Nothing could so far advance the cause of freedom as ... for the
federal government to withdraw promptly and totally from every
jurisdiction which the Constitution reserved to the states."

"I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this
country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I
must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are?
And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral
beliefs to me?"

"Now those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what
they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own
version of heaven on earth, and let me remind you they are the very ones
who always create the most hellish tyranny."

"Religious factions will go on imposing their will on others unless the
decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in
public policy. They must learn to make their views known without trying
to make their views the only alternatives."

"You don't need to be 'straight' to fight and die for your country. You
just need to shoot straight."

"Every good Christian should line up and kick Jerry Falwell's *****."

"I don't have any respect for the Religious Right. There is no place in
this country for practicing religion in politics. That goes for Falwell,
Robertson and all the rest of these political preachers. They are a
detriment to the country."

"By maintaining the separation of church and state, the United States
has avoided the intolerance which has so divided the rest of the world
with religious wars .... Can any of us refute the wisdom of Madison and
the other framers? Can anyone look at the carnage in Iran, the bloodshed
in Northem Ireland, or the bombs bursting in Lebanon and yet question
the dangers of injecting religious issues into the affairs of state?"
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear

"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the
bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is
tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists
for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering, http://www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.htm

Um what's anti american about it?
Kathryn
.

User: "Dale"
Title: Re: Name that anti-American radical!	26 Jul 2004 01:06:01 PM

"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote in message
news:410539AA.D0CBEA68@serv.net...

Does the author of these quotes hate America? Would today's
conservatives call him a liberal? Would today's conservatives call him a
traitor who helps to further the agenda of Al-Qaida and other terrorists
by undermining the President?

Discuss :-)

"[F]reedom depends on effective restraints against the accumulation of
power in a single authority."

"We want to stay alive; but more than that we want to be free. We want
to have peace; but before that we want to have conditions that make
peace tolerable."

"Nothing could so far advance the cause of freedom as ... for the
federal government to withdraw promptly and totally from every
jurisdiction which the Constitution reserved to the states."

"I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this
country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I
must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are?
And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral
beliefs to me?"

"Now those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what
they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own
version of heaven on earth, and let me remind you they are the very ones
who always create the most hellish tyranny."

"Religious factions will go on imposing their will on others unless the
decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in
public policy. They must learn to make their views known without trying
to make their views the only alternatives."

"You don't need to be 'straight' to fight and die for your country. You
just need to shoot straight."

"Every good Christian should line up and kick Jerry Falwell's *****."

"I don't have any respect for the Religious Right. There is no place in
this country for practicing religion in politics. That goes for Falwell,
Robertson and all the rest of these political preachers. They are a
detriment to the country."

"By maintaining the separation of church and state, the United States
has avoided the intolerance which has so divided the rest of the world
with religious wars .... Can any of us refute the wisdom of Madison and
the other framers? Can anyone look at the carnage in Iran, the bloodshed
in Northem Ireland, or the bombs bursting in Lebanon and yet question
the dangers of injecting religious issues into the affairs of state?"

The man who said these things would not fit in with today's Republicans.
Look at how they regard McCain, and he isn't half as "radical" as Goldwater.
He would definitely be called a traitor, and some would call him a
delusionary libertarian. Check out these ads for LBJ in 1964
http://www.pbs.org/30secondcandidate/timeline/years/1964b.html.
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: OT: Name that anti-American radical!	26 Jul 2004 01:24:36 PM

Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote in
news:410539AA.D0CBEA68@serv.net:

It's Barry Goldwater, and no, no, no and no.
Let's keep in mind that the party that is most worried about the opinion
of religious clerics is the Democrats with the communion for abortion
supporters issue. Falwell and the RR do *not* represent the whole of the
Republican party, much less the neocon movement, unless you let
ultraliberals define "neocon".

Discuss :-)

"[F]reedom depends on effective restraints against the accumulation of
power in a single authority."

"We want to stay alive; but more than that we want to be free. We want
to have peace; but before that we want to have conditions that make
peace tolerable."

"Nothing could so far advance the cause of freedom as ... for the
federal government to withdraw promptly and totally from every
jurisdiction which the Constitution reserved to the states."

"I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this
country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I
must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they
are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate
their moral beliefs to me?"

"Now those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do
what they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce
their own version of heaven on earth, and let me remind you they are
the very ones who always create the most hellish tyranny."

"Religious factions will go on imposing their will on others unless
the decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no
place in public policy. They must learn to make their views known
without trying to make their views the only alternatives."

"You don't need to be 'straight' to fight and die for your country.
You just need to shoot straight."

"Every good Christian should line up and kick Jerry Falwell's *****."

"I don't have any respect for the Religious Right. There is no place
in this country for practicing religion in politics. That goes for
Falwell, Robertson and all the rest of these political preachers. They
are a detriment to the country."

"By maintaining the separation of church and state, the United States
has avoided the intolerance which has so divided the rest of the world
with religious wars .... Can any of us refute the wisdom of Madison
and the other framers? Can anyone look at the carnage in Iran, the
bloodshed in Northem Ireland, or the bombs bursting in Lebanon and yet
question the dangers of injecting religious issues into the affairs of
state?" --
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear

"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the
bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is
tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists
for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering, http://www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.htm

--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.

User: "jwk"
Title: Re: OT: Name that anti-American radical!	27 Jul 2004 06:08:22 PM

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message news:<Xns953292991AA64fstone69@207.69.154.202>...

Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote in
news:410539AA.D0CBEA68@serv.net:

Worried about? I guess we Democrates do "worry about" what the
fundies say and do more than you Republicans. That's because they
scare us. Republicans, contrarywise, love them.
You can't claim the Religious Reich doesn't represent your party when
your party is dancing to their fiddle music. But it was a good try.
jwk
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: OT: Name that anti-American radical!	27 Jul 2004 06:43:36 PM

(jwk) wrote in
news:c6f5ba32.0407271508.1149793c@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns953292991AA64fstone69@207.69.154.202>...

Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote in
news:410539AA.D0CBEA68@serv.net:

It's Barry Goldwater, and no, no, no and no.
Let's keep in mind that the party that is most worried about the
opinion of religious clerics is the Democrats with the communion for
abortion supporters issue. Falwell and the RR do *not* represent the
whole of the Republican party, much less the neocon movement, unless
you let ultraliberals define "neocon".

Worried about? I guess we Democrates do "worry about" what the
fundies say and do more than you Republicans. That's because they
scare us. Republicans, contrarywise, love them.

Reps love them because they're organized. Show even a little support for
a church group and they'll come out in force on election day. You watch,
Bush's showing up at Black churches is going to have an effect in
November. Maybe not much, but it'll be there.
MOST churches understand the First Amendment, too. They just want to
have somebody in government who'll talk to them in their own language.

You can't claim the Religious Reich doesn't represent your party when
your party is dancing to their fiddle music. But it was a good try.

Note that I said "The whole of the party". Yes, the Reps will support RR
issues when it's convenient to do so, but they're basically in the same
position as blacks are to the Democrats. Where else are they going to
go?
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.

User: "jwk"
Title: Re: OT: Name that anti-American radical!	28 Jul 2004 09:38:11 AM

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message news:<Xns9533C8AFDAE23fstone69@207.69.154.201>...

jwkinraleigh@yahoo.com (jwk) wrote in
news:c6f5ba32.0407271508.1149793c@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns953292991AA64fstone69@207.69.154.202>...

Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote in
news:410539AA.D0CBEA68@serv.net:

It's Barry Goldwater, and no, no, no and no.
Let's keep in mind that the party that is most worried about the
opinion of religious clerics is the Democrats with the communion for
abortion supporters issue. Falwell and the RR do *not* represent the
whole of the Republican party, much less the neocon movement, unless
you let ultraliberals define "neocon".

Worried about? I guess we Democrates do "worry about" what the
fundies say and do more than you Republicans. That's because they
scare us. Republicans, contrarywise, love them.

Reps love them because they're organized. Show even a little support for
a church group and they'll come out in force on election day. You watch,
Bush's showing up at Black churches is going to have an effect in
November. Maybe not much, but it'll be there.

MOST churches understand the First Amendment, too. They just want to
have somebody in government who'll talk to them in their own language.

You can't claim the Religious Reich doesn't represent your party when
your party is dancing to their fiddle music. But it was a good try.

You realize that the term "rep" you keep using is shorthand for
"representative", don't you? That means someone who *represents you.
If you choose people who adopt the fundy agenda, it no longer matters
what you think of that agenda. In for a penny, in for a pound. You
can't weasel out by saying that that is just the behavior of your
Republican representatives. The body follows where the head leads.
If you don't agree with the direction your party is going you should
change your representatives.
And I take exception to your characterization that the Republicans
only show a "little support" to "church group"s. They give *fanatical
support to ultra-right-wing fundy groups. We are talking rabid,
foaming-at-the-mouth fundies. Not little blue-haired ladies at a tea.
Otherwise gay marriage, public displays of religious articles,
"faith-based" initiatives, two seconds of an exposed breast shield on
TV, etcetera wouldn't be the main topics of debate in the Republican
controlled Congress.
jwk
.

User: "Fred Stone"
Title: Re: OT: Name that anti-American radical!	28 Jul 2004 03:13:41 PM

(jwk) wrote in
news:c6f5ba32.0407280638.7dec025f@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns9533C8AFDAE23fstone69@207.69.154.201>...

(jwk) wrote in
news:c6f5ba32.0407271508.1149793c@posting.google.com:

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns953292991AA64fstone69@207.69.154.202>...

Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote in
news:410539AA.D0CBEA68@serv.net:

It's Barry Goldwater, and no, no, no and no.
Let's keep in mind that the party that is most worried about the
opinion of religious clerics is the Democrats with the communion
for abortion supporters issue. Falwell and the RR do *not*
represent the whole of the Republican party, much less the neocon
movement, unless you let ultraliberals define "neocon".

Worried about? I guess we Democrates do "worry about" what the
fundies say and do more than you Republicans. That's because they
scare us. Republicans, contrarywise, love them.

Reps love them because they're organized. Show even a little support
for a church group and they'll come out in force on election day. You
watch, Bush's showing up at Black churches is going to have an effect
in November. Maybe not much, but it'll be there.

MOST churches understand the First Amendment, too. They just want to
have somebody in government who'll talk to them in their own
language.

You can't claim the Religious Reich doesn't represent your party
when your party is dancing to their fiddle music. But it was a
good try.

Note that I said "The whole of the party". Yes, the Reps will support
RR issues when it's convenient to do so, but they're basically in the
same position as blacks are to the Democrats. Where else are they
going to go?

You realize that the term "rep" you keep using is shorthand for
"representative", don't you?

No, it�s short for �Republicans�.

That means someone who *represents you.
If you choose people who adopt the fundy agenda, it no longer matters
what you think of that agenda. In for a penny, in for a pound. You
can't weasel out by saying that that is just the behavior of your
Republican representatives. The body follows where the head leads.
If you don't agree with the direction your party is going you should
change your representatives.

I can live with it in order to see the war on terrorists through.

And I take exception to your characterization that the Republicans
only show a "little support" to "church group"s. They give *fanatical
support to ultra-right-wing fundy groups. We are talking rabid,
foaming-at-the-mouth fundies. Not little blue-haired ladies at a tea.
Otherwise gay marriage, public displays of religious articles,
"faith-based" initiatives, two seconds of an exposed breast shield on
TV, etcetera wouldn't be the main topics of debate in the Republican
controlled Congress.

You seem to think that only rabid right-wing fundies are concerned about
those issues. Unless you want to claim that over 50% of Americans are
rabid fundies, I suggest that you do your demographic homework again.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.

User: "jwk"
Title: Re: OT: Name that anti-American radical!	29 Jul 2004 12:26:01 PM

Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message news:<Xns9534A516B37A0fstone69@207.69.154.203>...

jwkinraleigh@yahoo.com (jwk) wrote in
news:c6f5ba32.0407280638.7dec025f@posting.google.com: