| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Mark K. Bilbo" |
| Date: |
16 Nov 2005 10:56:20 AM |
| Object: |
OT: Oh I so proud... |
Torture chambers in the "new" Iraq. The "new" Iraq we helped build.
Doesn't it just make you swell with pride?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?C2C863B2C
or
http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2005-11-16T153432Z_01_ROB645614_RTRUKOC_0_UK-IRAQ.xml
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
Forgotten Already
http://makeashorterlink.com/?H1233272C
Feds are treating Louisiana like enemy
"...it may be that they may have written us off."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?O21E51C1C
http://www.nola.com
.
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Oh I so proud... |
27 Nov 2005 11:30:45 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 22:42:18 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com>
wrote:
In article <lh3ho1ph5n9p6mk3s6sq1un90h782tp56s@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 15:24:11 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com>
wrote:
In article <huaeo1hpota9rl12ps16fuod33lgmvf3ji@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 22:38:11 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com>
wrote:
In article <sjpbo1divn2dpqahgqhov6q395pb5tf44t@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 21:53:47 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com>
wrote:
In article <Xns9717712AEA5B6fstone69@213.155.197.138>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
[]
You make the false assumption that every insurgent is a terrorist.
No, I make the historical observation that insurgencies which
include a
terrorist faction tend to end up with the terrorists in charge if
the
insurgency wins.
Now I suppose that you can provide cites for that.
Saddam Hussein then the puppets of GWB.
Good point.
Thank you. Good points are why Phred Phelcher killfiled me.
(laughter)
I'd tip my hat to you if I were wearing one. Sometimes, I wonder why I
bother.
Some people like the warm feeling from peeing upwind, I guess. Either
that or their boredom factor is max.
Everything has its limits.
Fred's idiocy has limits?
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Oh I so proud... |
27 Nov 2005 11:40:53 PM |
|
|
In article <k9rjo1lf3m8cmifgehh7snj6iiope3om67@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 22:42:18 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com>
wrote:
In article <lh3ho1ph5n9p6mk3s6sq1un90h782tp56s@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 15:24:11 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com>
wrote:
In article <huaeo1hpota9rl12ps16fuod33lgmvf3ji@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 22:38:11 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com>
wrote:
In article <sjpbo1divn2dpqahgqhov6q395pb5tf44t@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 21:53:47 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com>
wrote:
In article <Xns9717712AEA5B6fstone69@213.155.197.138>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
[]
You make the false assumption that every insurgent is a
terrorist.
No, I make the historical observation that insurgencies which
include a
terrorist faction tend to end up with the terrorists in charge if
the
insurgency wins.
Now I suppose that you can provide cites for that.
Saddam Hussein then the puppets of GWB.
Good point.
Thank you. Good points are why Phred Phelcher killfiled me.
(laughter)
I'd tip my hat to you if I were wearing one. Sometimes, I wonder why I
bother.
Some people like the warm feeling from peeing upwind, I guess. Either
that or their boredom factor is max.
Everything has its limits.
Fred's idiocy has limits?
Fred has made some intelligent posts on other matters, but its just his
politics that I disagree with.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Oh I so proud... |
28 Nov 2005 10:26:27 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:40:53 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com>
wrote:
In article <k9rjo1lf3m8cmifgehh7snj6iiope3om67@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 22:42:18 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com>
wrote:
In article <lh3ho1ph5n9p6mk3s6sq1un90h782tp56s@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 15:24:11 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com>
wrote:
In article <huaeo1hpota9rl12ps16fuod33lgmvf3ji@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 22:38:11 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com>
wrote:
In article <sjpbo1divn2dpqahgqhov6q395pb5tf44t@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 21:53:47 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com>
wrote:
In article <Xns9717712AEA5B6fstone69@213.155.197.138>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
[]
You make the false assumption that every insurgent is a
terrorist.
No, I make the historical observation that insurgencies which
include a
terrorist faction tend to end up with the terrorists in charge if
the
insurgency wins.
Now I suppose that you can provide cites for that.
Saddam Hussein then the puppets of GWB.
Good point.
Thank you. Good points are why Phred Phelcher killfiled me.
(laughter)
I'd tip my hat to you if I were wearing one. Sometimes, I wonder why I
bother.
Some people like the warm feeling from peeing upwind, I guess. Either
that or their boredom factor is max.
Everything has its limits.
Fred's idiocy has limits?
Fred has made some intelligent posts on other matters, but its just his
politics that I disagree with.
In the past he did show a lot of intellect. I figure brain cell
meltdown hit him.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Oh I so proud... |
30 Nov 2005 12:27:30 AM |
|
|
In article <hrbmo1drb7e7udbnorj496gcjqrd1d3jbp@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:40:53 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com>
wrote:
In article <k9rjo1lf3m8cmifgehh7snj6iiope3om67@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 22:42:18 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com>
wrote:
In article <lh3ho1ph5n9p6mk3s6sq1un90h782tp56s@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 15:24:11 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com>
wrote:
In article <huaeo1hpota9rl12ps16fuod33lgmvf3ji@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 22:38:11 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com>
wrote:
In article <sjpbo1divn2dpqahgqhov6q395pb5tf44t@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 21:53:47 -0800, johac
<jhachm@ixpres.remove.com>
wrote:
In article <Xns9717712AEA5B6fstone69@213.155.197.138>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
[]
You make the false assumption that every insurgent is a
terrorist.
No, I make the historical observation that insurgencies which
include a
terrorist faction tend to end up with the terrorists in charge
if
the
insurgency wins.
Now I suppose that you can provide cites for that.
Saddam Hussein then the puppets of GWB.
Good point.
Thank you. Good points are why Phred Phelcher killfiled me.
(laughter)
I'd tip my hat to you if I were wearing one. Sometimes, I wonder why I
bother.
Some people like the warm feeling from peeing upwind, I guess. Either
that or their boredom factor is max.
Everything has its limits.
Fred's idiocy has limits?
Fred has made some intelligent posts on other matters, but its just his
politics that I disagree with.
In the past he did show a lot of intellect. I figure brain cell
meltdown hit him.
Mental fatigue.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Oh I so proud... |
01 Dec 2005 12:46:02 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 22:27:30 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com>
wrote:
In article <hrbmo1drb7e7udbnorj496gcjqrd1d3jbp@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:40:53 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com>
wrote:
In article <k9rjo1lf3m8cmifgehh7snj6iiope3om67@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 22:42:18 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com>
wrote:
In article <lh3ho1ph5n9p6mk3s6sq1un90h782tp56s@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 15:24:11 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com>
wrote:
In article <huaeo1hpota9rl12ps16fuod33lgmvf3ji@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 22:38:11 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com>
wrote:
In article <sjpbo1divn2dpqahgqhov6q395pb5tf44t@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 21:53:47 -0800, johac
<jhachm@ixpres.remove.com>
wrote:
In article <Xns9717712AEA5B6fstone69@213.155.197.138>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
[]
You make the false assumption that every insurgent is a
terrorist.
No, I make the historical observation that insurgencies which
include a
terrorist faction tend to end up with the terrorists in charge
if
the
insurgency wins.
Now I suppose that you can provide cites for that.
Saddam Hussein then the puppets of GWB.
Good point.
Thank you. Good points are why Phred Phelcher killfiled me.
(laughter)
I'd tip my hat to you if I were wearing one. Sometimes, I wonder why I
bother.
Some people like the warm feeling from peeing upwind, I guess. Either
that or their boredom factor is max.
Everything has its limits.
Fred's idiocy has limits?
Fred has made some intelligent posts on other matters, but its just his
politics that I disagree with.
In the past he did show a lot of intellect. I figure brain cell
meltdown hit him.
Mental fatigue.
from the strain of those few posts.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
|
|
|
|
|
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|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Oh I so proud... |
24 Nov 2005 05:31:22 AM |
|
|
johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-FEA9E7.21534723112005@news.giganews.com:
In article <Xns9717712AEA5B6fstone69@213.155.197.138>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-F24649.21542522112005@news.giganews.com:
In article <Xns9716529E5E73Bfstone69@213.155.197.138>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
<...>
Which gives the victory to the terrorists.
You make the false assumption that every insurgent is a terrorist.
No, I make the historical observation that insurgencies which include
a terrorist faction tend to end up with the terrorists in charge if
the insurgency wins.
Now I suppose that you can provide cites for that.
Russia, 1917.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"I actually think what we learned during the inspection
made Iraq a more dangerous place, potentially, than,
in fact, we thought it was even before the war." -- David Kay
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=6075
.
|
|
|
| User: "David Jensen" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Oh I so proud... |
24 Nov 2005 10:36:55 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 11:31:22 +0000 (UTC), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns9718427F8AC79fstone69@213.155.197.138>:
johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-FEA9E7.21534723112005@news.giganews.com:
In article <Xns9717712AEA5B6fstone69@213.155.197.138>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-F24649.21542522112005@news.giganews.com:
In article <Xns9716529E5E73Bfstone69@213.155.197.138>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
<...>
Which gives the victory to the terrorists.
You make the false assumption that every insurgent is a terrorist.
No, I make the historical observation that insurgencies which include
a terrorist faction tend to end up with the terrorists in charge if
the insurgency wins.
Now I suppose that you can provide cites for that.
Russia, 1917.
The Bolsheviks were terrorists? Really. I had the vague notion that they
spend their time fighting the government.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Oh I so proud... |
24 Nov 2005 11:39:52 AM |
|
|
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:8vqbo198bbp7p08jt6f5bh23209812ija4@4ax.com:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 11:31:22 +0000 (UTC), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns9718427F8AC79fstone69@213.155.197.138>:
johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-FEA9E7.21534723112005@news.giganews.com:
In article <Xns9717712AEA5B6fstone69@213.155.197.138>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-F24649.21542522112005@news.giganews.com:
In article <Xns9716529E5E73Bfstone69@213.155.197.138>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
<...>
Which gives the victory to the terrorists.
You make the false assumption that every insurgent is a
terrorist.
No, I make the historical observation that insurgencies which
include a terrorist faction tend to end up with the terrorists in
charge if the insurgency wins.
Now I suppose that you can provide cites for that.
Russia, 1917.
The Bolsheviks were terrorists? Really. I had the vague notion that
they spend their time fighting the government.
I seem to recall reading that they did both.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"I actually think what we learned during the inspection
made Iraq a more dangerous place, potentially, than,
in fact, we thought it was even before the war." -- David Kay
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=6075
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Oh I so proud... |
25 Nov 2005 12:48:33 AM |
|
|
In article <Xns971880FAA7F55fstone69@213.155.197.138>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:8vqbo198bbp7p08jt6f5bh23209812ija4@4ax.com:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 11:31:22 +0000 (UTC), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns9718427F8AC79fstone69@213.155.197.138>:
johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-FEA9E7.21534723112005@news.giganews.com:
In article <Xns9717712AEA5B6fstone69@213.155.197.138>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-F24649.21542522112005@news.giganews.com:
In article <Xns9716529E5E73Bfstone69@213.155.197.138>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
<...>
Which gives the victory to the terrorists.
You make the false assumption that every insurgent is a
terrorist.
No, I make the historical observation that insurgencies which
include a terrorist faction tend to end up with the terrorists in
charge if the insurgency wins.
Now I suppose that you can provide cites for that.
Russia, 1917.
The Bolsheviks were terrorists? Really. I had the vague notion that
they spend their time fighting the government.
I seem to recall reading that they did both.
They did, but from what I had read, it seems that in nearly every
insurgency, revolution, civil war, and even conventional war or side or
both may resort to acts of what might be called terror. Such is not the
main battle tactic however. Terrorists are those who use terror tactics
against established governments or institutions as their principle
weapon.
The Russian Revolution of 1917 was a rebellion, not a terror campaign.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Oh I so proud... |
25 Nov 2005 07:46:22 AM |
|
|
johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-F6E4CC.22483324112005@news.giganews.com:
In article <Xns971880FAA7F55fstone69@213.155.197.138>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:8vqbo198bbp7p08jt6f5bh23209812ija4@4ax.com:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 11:31:22 +0000 (UTC), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns9718427F8AC79fstone69@213.155.197.138>:
<...>
No, I make the historical observation that insurgencies which
include a terrorist faction tend to end up with the terrorists
in charge if the insurgency wins.
Now I suppose that you can provide cites for that.
Russia, 1917.
The Bolsheviks were terrorists? Really. I had the vague notion that
they spend their time fighting the government.
I seem to recall reading that they did both.
They did, but from what I had read, it seems that in nearly every
insurgency, revolution, civil war, and even conventional war or side
or both may resort to acts of what might be called terror. Such is not
the main battle tactic however. Terrorists are those who use terror
tactics against established governments or institutions as their
principle weapon.
The Russian Revolution of 1917 was a rebellion, not a terror campaign.
My point being that the terrorists *did* end up in control.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"I actually think what we learned during the inspection
made Iraq a more dangerous place, potentially, than,
in fact, we thought it was even before the war." -- David Kay
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=6075
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Oh I so proud... |
25 Nov 2005 05:22:44 PM |
|
|
In article <Xns9719596187B5Efstone69@213.155.197.138>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-F6E4CC.22483324112005@news.giganews.com:
In article <Xns971880FAA7F55fstone69@213.155.197.138>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:8vqbo198bbp7p08jt6f5bh23209812ija4@4ax.com:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 11:31:22 +0000 (UTC), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns9718427F8AC79fstone69@213.155.197.138>:
<...>
No, I make the historical observation that insurgencies which
include a terrorist faction tend to end up with the terrorists
in charge if the insurgency wins.
Now I suppose that you can provide cites for that.
Russia, 1917.
The Bolsheviks were terrorists? Really. I had the vague notion that
they spend their time fighting the government.
I seem to recall reading that they did both.
They did, but from what I had read, it seems that in nearly every
insurgency, revolution, civil war, and even conventional war or side
or both may resort to acts of what might be called terror. Such is not
the main battle tactic however. Terrorists are those who use terror
tactics against established governments or institutions as their
principle weapon.
The Russian Revolution of 1917 was a rebellion, not a terror campaign.
My point being that the terrorists *did* end up in control.
My point is that the Russian revolutionaries did not use the tactics of
terrorism (random acts of violence against an established power) to any
great extent. They used propaganda and political persuasion to stir the
people into a revolt.
After the revolution, they were the established government, and what
they did to their people was terrible, but that does not qualify them as
terrorists in the sense that al Qaida, or similar groups are today.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
.
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Oh I so proud... |
26 Nov 2005 05:58:21 AM |
|
|
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 13:46:22 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
The Russian Revolution of 1917 was a rebellion, not a terror campaign.
My point being that the terrorists *did* end up in control.
You might consider using a different example then. The white troops
were just as much terrorist as the red troops.
.
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|
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Oh I so proud... |
26 Nov 2005 06:47:05 AM |
|
|
Jos Flachs <xwcruise@ksc15.th.com> wrote in
news:jpafo1d033b7tk0k1o1og9ele6ripeidea@4ax.com:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 13:46:22 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
The Russian Revolution of 1917 was a rebellion, not a terror
campaign.
My point being that the terrorists *did* end up in control.
You might consider using a different example then. The white troops
were just as much terrorist as the red troops.
That doesn't alter my point in the least.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"I actually think what we learned during the inspection
made Iraq a more dangerous place, potentially, than,
in fact, we thought it was even before the war." -- David Kay
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=6075
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jos Flachs" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Oh I so proud... |
27 Nov 2005 05:53:33 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 12:47:05 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
Jos Flachs <xwcruise@ksc15.th.com> wrote in
news:jpafo1d033b7tk0k1o1og9ele6ripeidea@4ax.com:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 13:46:22 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
The Russian Revolution of 1917 was a rebellion, not a terror
campaign.
My point being that the terrorists *did* end up in control.
You might consider using a different example then. The white troops
were just as much terrorist as the red troops.
That doesn't alter my point in the least.
So, if the white troops had won:
You would say terrorists ended up in control?
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Oh I so proud... |
27 Nov 2005 07:21:43 AM |
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Jos Flachs <xwcruise@ksc15.th.com> wrote in
news:uo8io1hfbsitt459d8uhd9skep84kti8cl@4ax.com:
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 12:47:05 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
Jos Flachs <xwcruise@ksc15.th.com> wrote in
news:jpafo1d033b7tk0k1o1og9ele6ripeidea@4ax.com:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 13:46:22 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
The Russian Revolution of 1917 was a rebellion, not a terror
campaign.
My point being that the terrorists *did* end up in control.
You might consider using a different example then. The white troops
were just as much terrorist as the red troops.
That doesn't alter my point in the least.
So, if the white troops had won:
You would say terrorists ended up in control?
You have mistaken what I said. I said that when an insurgency has a
terrorist faction (or wing or whatever you call it), that faction often
ends up taking the whole prize after the insurgency wins.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"I actually think what we learned during the inspection
made Iraq a more dangerous place, potentially, than,
in fact, we thought it was even before the war." -- David Kay
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=6075
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Oh I so proud... |
26 Nov 2005 09:43:58 AM |
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On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 12:47:05 +0000 (UTC), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns971A4F5553938fstone69@213.155.197.138>:
Jos Flachs <xwcruise@ksc15.th.com> wrote in
news:jpafo1d033b7tk0k1o1og9ele6ripeidea@4ax.com:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 13:46:22 +0000 (UTC), Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
The Russian Revolution of 1917 was a rebellion, not a terror
campaign.
My point being that the terrorists *did* end up in control.
You might consider using a different example then. The white troops
were just as much terrorist as the red troops.
That doesn't alter my point in the least.
Can you point to _any_ civil war in the past 200 years where you can say
one of the sided never engaged in terror tactics.
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Oh I so proud... |
25 Nov 2005 05:28:25 PM |
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TV's Fred Stone wrote:
johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-F6E4CC.22483324112005@news.giganews.com:
In article <Xns971880FAA7F55fstone69@213.155.197.138>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:8vqbo198bbp7p08jt6f5bh23209812ija4@4ax.com:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 11:31:22 +0000 (UTC), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns9718427F8AC79fstone69@213.155.197.138>:
<...>
No, I make the historical observation that insurgencies which
include a terrorist faction tend to end up with the terrorists
in charge if the insurgency wins.
Now I suppose that you can provide cites for that.
Russia, 1917.
The Bolsheviks were terrorists? Really. I had the vague notion that
they spend their time fighting the government.
I seem to recall reading that they did both.
They did, but from what I had read, it seems that in nearly every
insurgency, revolution, civil war, and even conventional war or side
or both may resort to acts of what might be called terror. Such is not
the main battle tactic however. Terrorists are those who use terror
tactics against established governments or institutions as their
principle weapon.
The Russian Revolution of 1917 was a rebellion, not a terror campaign.
My point being that the terrorists *did* end up in control.
The Brits considered the Boston Tea Party the 18th century equivalent of a
terrorist attack.
--
aa #2133
ap #19
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Oh I so proud... |
26 Nov 2005 12:38:20 AM |
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In article <Y_-dnUuVsfqGAxreRVn-pA@centurytel.net>,
"towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
TV's Fred Stone wrote:
johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-F6E4CC.22483324112005@news.giganews.com:
In article <Xns971880FAA7F55fstone69@213.155.197.138>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:8vqbo198bbp7p08jt6f5bh23209812ija4@4ax.com:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 11:31:22 +0000 (UTC), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns9718427F8AC79fstone69@213.155.197.138>:
<...>
No, I make the historical observation that insurgencies which
include a terrorist faction tend to end up with the terrorists
in charge if the insurgency wins.
Now I suppose that you can provide cites for that.
Russia, 1917.
The Bolsheviks were terrorists? Really. I had the vague notion that
they spend their time fighting the government.
I seem to recall reading that they did both.
They did, but from what I had read, it seems that in nearly every
insurgency, revolution, civil war, and even conventional war or side
or both may resort to acts of what might be called terror. Such is not
the main battle tactic however. Terrorists are those who use terror
tactics against established governments or institutions as their
principle weapon.
The Russian Revolution of 1917 was a rebellion, not a terror campaign.
My point being that the terrorists *did* end up in control.
The Brits considered the Boston Tea Party the 18th century equivalent of a
terrorist attack.
Probably, but compared to modern day terrorists, dumping a few boxes of
tea into the ocean seems pretty mild.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Oh I so proud... |
26 Nov 2005 10:28:34 AM |
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On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 17:28:25 -0600, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
wrote:
TV's Fred Stone wrote:
johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-F6E4CC.22483324112005@news.giganews.com:
In article <Xns971880FAA7F55fstone69@213.155.197.138>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:8vqbo198bbp7p08jt6f5bh23209812ija4@4ax.com:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 11:31:22 +0000 (UTC), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns9718427F8AC79fstone69@213.155.197.138>:
<...>
No, I make the historical observation that insurgencies which
include a terrorist faction tend to end up with the terrorists
in charge if the insurgency wins.
Now I suppose that you can provide cites for that.
Russia, 1917.
The Bolsheviks were terrorists? Really. I had the vague notion that
they spend their time fighting the government.
I seem to recall reading that they did both.
They did, but from what I had read, it seems that in nearly every
insurgency, revolution, civil war, and even conventional war or side
or both may resort to acts of what might be called terror. Such is not
the main battle tactic however. Terrorists are those who use terror
tactics against established governments or institutions as their
principle weapon.
The Russian Revolution of 1917 was a rebellion, not a terror campaign.
My point being that the terrorists *did* end up in control.
The Brits considered the Boston Tea Party the 18th century equivalent of a
terrorist attack.
Only because they didn't get an invite!......
[ducking]
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Oh I so proud... |
24 Nov 2005 09:31:14 PM |
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On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 17:39:52 +0000 (UTC), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns971880FAA7F55fstone69@213.155.197.138>:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:8vqbo198bbp7p08jt6f5bh23209812ija4@4ax.com:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 11:31:22 +0000 (UTC), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns9718427F8AC79fstone69@213.155.197.138>:
johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-FEA9E7.21534723112005@news.giganews.com:
In article <Xns9717712AEA5B6fstone69@213.155.197.138>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-F24649.21542522112005@news.giganews.com:
In article <Xns9716529E5E73Bfstone69@213.155.197.138>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
<...>
Which gives the victory to the terrorists.
You make the false assumption that every insurgent is a
terrorist.
No, I make the historical observation that insurgencies which
include a terrorist faction tend to end up with the terrorists in
charge if the insurgency wins.
Now I suppose that you can provide cites for that.
Russia, 1917.
The Bolsheviks were terrorists? Really. I had the vague notion that
they spend their time fighting the government.
I seem to recall reading that they did both.
I have a hard time with folks who claim that people involved in military
operations are terrorists. Was the US a terrorist when it attacked
Fallujah the way it did? I do think that some military operations show
serious careless in their concern for civilians. Things like V-2's and
firebombings are certainly designed (if unsuccessfully for the most
part) to demoralize the civilian population, but I don't they have
proven very successful.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Oh I so proud... |
25 Nov 2005 07:43:48 AM |
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David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:151do15ohbtokv8md5ugsl9tef8jfvi9j7@4ax.com:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 17:39:52 +0000 (UTC), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns971880FAA7F55fstone69@213.155.197.138>:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:8vqbo198bbp7p08jt6f5bh23209812ija4@4ax.com:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 11:31:22 +0000 (UTC), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns9718427F8AC79fstone69@213.155.197.138>:
johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-FEA9E7.21534723112005@news.giganews.com:
In article <Xns9717712AEA5B6fstone69@213.155.197.138>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-F24649.21542522112005@news.giganews.com:
In article <Xns9716529E5E73Bfstone69@213.155.197.138>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
<...>
Which gives the victory to the terrorists.
You make the false assumption that every insurgent is a
terrorist.
No, I make the historical observation that insurgencies which
include a terrorist faction tend to end up with the terrorists in
charge if the insurgency wins.
Now I suppose that you can provide cites for that.
Russia, 1917.
The Bolsheviks were terrorists? Really. I had the vague notion that
they spend their time fighting the government.
I seem to recall reading that they did both.
I have a hard time with folks who claim that people involved in
military operations are terrorists.
I do too.
However, the Bolsheviks did their share of terrorism as well.
Was the US a terrorist when it
attacked Fallujah the way it did?
No. As in all US military operations, great care was taken to avoid
civilian casualties. Heck, we gave the Fallujan civilians several days
to get out of town before we moved in.
Oh, and the WP thing? That was used to *avoid* civilian casualties. We
*could* have just dropped 500-pounders on houses when the people inside
were shooting at our troops.
I do think that some military
operations show serious careless in their concern for civilians.
Things like V-2's and firebombings are certainly designed (if
unsuccessfully for the most part) to demoralize the civilian
population, but I don't they have proven very successful.
There are some notable exceptions.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"I actually think what we learned during the inspection
made Iraq a more dangerous place, potentially, than,
in fact, we thought it was even before the war." -- David Kay
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=6075
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Oh I so proud... |
21 Nov 2005 04:28:33 PM |
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On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 17:50:00 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In <jhachm-B7384E.15315120112005@news.giganews.com>, johac
<jhachm@ixpres.remove.com> wrote:
[]
Funny that nobody's picked up on the idea that one reason the new Iraqi
government has *not gotten its act together is "let the Americans do it."
Why should they bother? We're there to pick up the pieces, they can sit
around, waste time, embezzle funds, play political whiffle ball, hell,
watch TV. With a "until it's done" deadline, what's the incentive?
They need to be told "here's the start of the withdrawal, here's the end."
If they start whining "but the insurgents'll get us!" then we say "then
you better get your butt in gear huh?"
Bingo.
Now listen to Phred Phecher whine.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Oh I so proud... |
20 Nov 2005 07:09:31 PM |
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johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-B7384E.15315120112005@news.giganews.com:
In article <Xns971473ECDED3Afstone69@213.155.197.138>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-3497F9.23004019112005@news.giganews.com:
In article <Xns971362227976Ffstone69@213.155.197.138>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-1BF305.00053219112005@news.giganews.com:
In article <Xns97114C12EE5BCfstone69@213.155.197.138>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:
johac <jhachm@ixpres.remove.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-620483.22421716112005@news.giganews.com:
In article <6v-dnaAcPL5U-ebenZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@megapath.net>,
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
Torture chambers in the "new" Iraq. The "new" Iraq we helped
build. Doesn't it just make you swell with pride?
Saddam is in jail but what else has changed?
Quite a bit, actually.
People are still being murdered and tortured.
But now it's against the law in fact as well as in principle.
Until it happens again.
No, if it happens again it'll still be against the law in fact as
well as in principle, and the perpetrators will be found and
punished.
Maybe, maybe not.
No different than any fugitive anywhere else.
CNN isn't covering up the story to keep "access".
And there are people in the government who are outraged at the
discovery and who will take action against those who have
perpetrated this crime.
A weak government propped up by a foreign army of occupation.
A government which will be holding parliamentary elections in less
than a month. A government with its own army that is increasingly
capable of carrying out security missions.
49 Iraqis killed today. Where was the Iraqi army?
Oh, dear, another one got through, I guess we better abandon the
whole country to the terrorists so that they can *all* get through.
That'll make us a *WHOLE LOT* safer.
So you agree with Rep. Murtha.
Not even close. I suggest you work on your sarcasm detector.
Some
claimed that they deplored the torture, but I wonder how many
applauded it or may have even taken part in it.
That's nothing more than rank cynicism on your part.
I prefer realism. I wish our government would get some.
You say that you prefer realism but you indulge in paranoid
fantasies.
I'm not the one who believes Bush's lies.
I don't believe Bush's lies either.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"I actually think what we learned during the inspection
made Iraq a more dangerous place, potentially, than,
in fact, we thought it was even before the war." -- David Kay
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=6075
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: Oh I so proud... |
16 Nov 2005 11:06:52 AM |
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TV's Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Torture chambers in the "new" Iraq. The "new" Iraq we helped build.
How long until we have torture chambers in the "new" Bushian America? Are
they already here?
Doesn't it just make you swell with pride?
It makes warmongers swell in the pants.
--
aa #2133
ap #19
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Oh I'm so proud... (d'oh: Re: Oh I so proud...) |
16 Nov 2005 11:40:53 AM |
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In <L7WdnQL0CI2y-ubenZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@centurytel.net>, "towelie"
<bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
TV's Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Torture chambers in the "new" Iraq. The "new" Iraq we helped build.
How long until we have torture chambers in the "new" Bushian America? Are
they already here?
Nah. We outsourced.
Doesn't it just make you swell with pride?
It makes warmongers swell in the pants.
Considering torture is more sexual perversion than interrogation technique...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
Forgotten Already
http://makeashorterlink.com/?H1233272C
Feds are treating Louisiana like enemy
"...it may be that they may have written us off."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?O21E51C1C
http://www.nola.com
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Oh I so proud... |
17 Nov 2005 02:22:03 AM |
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On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 11:06:52 -0600, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
wrote:
TV's Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Torture chambers in the "new" Iraq. The "new" Iraq we helped build.
How long until we have torture chambers in the "new" Bushian America? Are
they already here?
Does "Guantanamo" ring any bells?
Doesn't it just make you swell with pride?
It makes warmongers swell in the pants.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Oh I so proud... |
17 Nov 2005 06:28:53 AM |
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Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in
news:jcfon1pfqb20904nvp42rfeakhruaur910@4ax.com:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 11:06:52 -0600, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
wrote:
TV's Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Torture chambers in the "new" Iraq. The "new" Iraq we helped build.
How long until we have torture chambers in the "new" Bushian America?
Are they already here?
Does "Guantanamo" ring any bells?
No, it doesn't.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up
for something, sometime in your life." -- W. Churchill
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| User: "G-Ride" |
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| Title: Re: Oh I so proud... |
17 Nov 2005 01:29:13 PM |
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"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns97114C3D75690fstone69@213.155.197.138...
Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in
news:jcfon1pfqb20904nvp42rfeakhruaur910@4ax.com:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 11:06:52 -0600, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
wrote:
TV's Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Torture chambers in the "new" Iraq. The "new" Iraq we helped build.
How long until we have torture chambers in the "new" Bushian America?
Are they already here?
Does "Guantanamo" ring any bells?
No, it doesn't.
It's a US military base in Cuba.
--
Aloha, G-Ride
"Like a quarrelling group of monkeys on a leaky boat, armed with sticks of
dynamite, we are now embarked on an uncertain journey."
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Oh I so proud... |
17 Nov 2005 04:33:16 PM |
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On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 11:06:52 -0600, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
wrote:
TV's Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Torture chambers in the "new" Iraq. The "new" Iraq we helped build.
How long until we have torture chambers in the "new" Bushian America? Are
they already here?
No doubt about it.
Doesn't it just make you swell with pride?
It makes warmongers swell in the pants.
Mindless thuggery.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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| User: "Katt" |
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| Title: Re: Oh I so proud... |
18 Nov 2005 04:10:36 AM |
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"stoney" <stoney@the.net> wrote in message
news:g81qn1pf9ek9qh02tkj1lgcfhddbmle8sq@4ax.com...
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 11:06:52 -0600, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
wrote:
TV's Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Torture chambers in the "new" Iraq. The "new" Iraq we helped build.
How long until we have torture chambers in the "new" Bushian America? Are
they already here?
No doubt about it.
Doesn't it just make you swell with pride?
It makes warmongers swell in the pants.
Mindless thuggery.
What's more, the US's recent refusal to allow the UN to send a full-strength
team to Guantanamo for a full-length inspection incorporating unsupervised
interviews with prisoners has at a stroke put the US in a club that also
contains those freedom-loving and human-rights-respecting nations *N. Korea*
and *Burma*.
Congratulations to all concerned: you finally made the *First Division*.
Katt.
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