Religions > Atheism > OT: Ohio's Diebold Debacle: New Machines Call Election Results Into Question
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"maff" |
| Date: |
29 Nov 2005 07:14:17 PM |
| Object: |
OT: Ohio's Diebold Debacle: New Machines Call Election Results Into Question |
Ohio's Diebold Debacle: New Machines Call Election Results Into
Question
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0511/S00340.htm
by Bob Fitrakis & Harvey Wasserman
November 24, 2005
From: http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1593
Massive Election Day irregularities are emerging in reports from all
over Ohio after the introduction of Diebold's electronic voting in
nearly half of the Buckeye State's counties. A recently released
report by the non-partisan General Accountability Office warned of such
problems with electronic voting machines.
Diebold
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/6df353695f99daaa
Ohio
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/b9e74143ef42ef3d
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Ohio's Diebold Debacle: New Machines Call Election Results Into Question |
29 Nov 2005 08:55:02 PM |
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"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1133313257.255786.105420@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Ohio's Diebold Debacle: New Machines Call Election Results Into
Question
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0511/S00340.htm
by Bob Fitrakis & Harvey Wasserman
November 24, 2005
From: http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1593
Massive Election Day irregularities are emerging in reports from all
over Ohio after the introduction of Diebold's electronic voting in
nearly half of the Buckeye State's counties. A recently released
report by the non-partisan General Accountability Office warned of such
problems with electronic voting machines.
Surprise, fucking surprise!
How odd that they worked PERFECTLY during the last presidential election,
eh? Just ask Fred.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Ohio's Diebold Debacle: New Machines Call Election Results Into Question |
29 Nov 2005 09:35:06 PM |
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"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in
news:Uu6dnXuMvOCHiRDenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@io.com:
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1133313257.255786.105420@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Ohio's Diebold Debacle: New Machines Call Election Results Into
Question
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0511/S00340.htm
by Bob Fitrakis & Harvey Wasserman
November 24, 2005
From: http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1593
Massive Election Day irregularities are emerging in reports from all
over Ohio after the introduction of Diebold's electronic voting in
nearly half of the Buckeye State's counties. A recently released
report by the non-partisan General Accountability Office warned of
such problems with electronic voting machines.
Surprise, fucking surprise!
How odd that they worked PERFECTLY during the last presidential
election, eh? Just ask Fred.
What a bunch of crap.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/953/472/1600/democratic_sealsmall.jpg
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"I actually think what we learned during the inspection
made Iraq a more dangerous place, potentially, than,
in fact, we thought it was even before the war." -- David Kay
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=6075
.
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Ohio's Diebold Debacle: New Machines Call Election Results Into Question |
29 Nov 2005 10:00:43 PM |
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"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns971DE5EA19621fstone69@213.155.197.138...
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in
news:Uu6dnXuMvOCHiRDenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@io.com:
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1133313257.255786.105420@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Ohio's Diebold Debacle: New Machines Call Election Results Into
Question
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0511/S00340.htm
by Bob Fitrakis & Harvey Wasserman
November 24, 2005
From: http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1593
Massive Election Day irregularities are emerging in reports from all
over Ohio after the introduction of Diebold's electronic voting in
nearly half of the Buckeye State's counties. A recently released
report by the non-partisan General Accountability Office warned of
such problems with electronic voting machines.
Surprise, fucking surprise!
How odd that they worked PERFECTLY during the last presidential
election, eh? Just ask Fred.
What a bunch of crap.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/953/472/1600/democratic_sealsmall.jpg
So...what? You're saying they DIDN'T work perfectly?
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
http://www.ashenempires.com
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Ohio's Diebold Debacle: New Machines Call Election Results Into Question |
30 Nov 2005 07:22:32 AM |
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"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in news:iIadnTSdjNB0vhDeRVn-
qA@io.com:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns971DE5EA19621fstone69@213.155.197.138...
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in
news:Uu6dnXuMvOCHiRDenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@io.com:
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1133313257.255786.105420@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Ohio's Diebold Debacle: New Machines Call Election Results Into
Question
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0511/S00340.htm
by Bob Fitrakis & Harvey Wasserman
November 24, 2005
From: http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1593
Massive Election Day irregularities are emerging in reports from
all
over Ohio after the introduction of Diebold's electronic voting in
nearly half of the Buckeye State's counties. A recently released
report by the non-partisan General Accountability Office warned of
such problems with electronic voting machines.
Surprise, fucking surprise!
How odd that they worked PERFECTLY during the last presidential
election, eh? Just ask Fred.
What a bunch of crap.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/953/472/1600/democratic_sealsmall.jpg
So...what? You're saying they DIDN'T work perfectly?
No, they didn't work perfectly. Nothing in human endevor works
perfectly.
But that article makes mountains out of molehills, and then whines, "But
our polls said we WON", which only proves that their polls were wrong,
not that the election was tampered with.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"I actually think what we learned during the inspection
made Iraq a more dangerous place, potentially, than,
in fact, we thought it was even before the war." -- David Kay
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=6075
.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Ohio's Diebold Debacle: New Machines Call Election Results Into Question |
29 Nov 2005 11:30:12 PM |
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On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 03:35:06 +0000 (UTC), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns971DE5EA19621fstone69@213.155.197.138>:
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in
news:Uu6dnXuMvOCHiRDenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@io.com:
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1133313257.255786.105420@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Ohio's Diebold Debacle: New Machines Call Election Results Into
Question
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0511/S00340.htm
by Bob Fitrakis & Harvey Wasserman
November 24, 2005
From: http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1593
Massive Election Day irregularities are emerging in reports from all
over Ohio after the introduction of Diebold's electronic voting in
nearly half of the Buckeye State's counties. A recently released
report by the non-partisan General Accountability Office warned of
such problems with electronic voting machines.
Surprise, fucking surprise!
How odd that they worked PERFECTLY during the last presidential
election, eh? Just ask Fred.
What a bunch of crap.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/953/472/1600/democratic_sealsmall.jpg
So you do agree that voting machines without paper trails are dangerous.
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Ohio's Diebold Debacle: New Machines Call Election Results Into Question |
30 Nov 2005 07:26:09 AM |
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David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:d6eqo1pp4p2jb24vtqo90ar6ipm7r1rcaj@4ax.com:
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 03:35:06 +0000 (UTC), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns971DE5EA19621fstone69@213.155.197.138>:
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in
news:Uu6dnXuMvOCHiRDenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@io.com:
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1133313257.255786.105420@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Ohio's Diebold Debacle: New Machines Call Election Results Into
Question
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0511/S00340.htm
by Bob Fitrakis & Harvey Wasserman
November 24, 2005
From: http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1593
Massive Election Day irregularities are emerging in reports from
all over Ohio after the introduction of Diebold's electronic voting
in nearly half of the Buckeye State's counties. A recently released
report by the non-partisan General Accountability Office warned of
such problems with electronic voting machines.
Surprise, fucking surprise!
How odd that they worked PERFECTLY during the last presidential
election, eh? Just ask Fred.
What a bunch of crap.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/953/472/1600/democratic_sealsmall.jp
g
So you do agree that voting machines without paper trails are
dangerous.
IIRC, the Diebold machines do produce an audit trail, on CD-R.
That article in the freepress site is the bunch of crap. Whine about a
bunch of minor technical *HUMAN* errors and then whine some more about
how their polls didn't match up with the election results.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"I actually think what we learned during the inspection
made Iraq a more dangerous place, potentially, than,
in fact, we thought it was even before the war." -- David Kay
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=6075
.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Ohio's Diebold Debacle: New Machines Call Election Results Into Question |
30 Nov 2005 10:34:45 AM |
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On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 13:26:09 +0000 (UTC), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns971E55F5CC6BDfstone69@213.155.197.138>:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:d6eqo1pp4p2jb24vtqo90ar6ipm7r1rcaj@4ax.com:
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 03:35:06 +0000 (UTC), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns971DE5EA19621fstone69@213.155.197.138>:
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in
news:Uu6dnXuMvOCHiRDenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@io.com:
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1133313257.255786.105420@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Ohio's Diebold Debacle: New Machines Call Election Results Into
Question
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0511/S00340.htm
by Bob Fitrakis & Harvey Wasserman
November 24, 2005
From: http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1593
Massive Election Day irregularities are emerging in reports from
all over Ohio after the introduction of Diebold's electronic voting
in nearly half of the Buckeye State's counties. A recently released
report by the non-partisan General Accountability Office warned of
such problems with electronic voting machines.
Surprise, fucking surprise!
How odd that they worked PERFECTLY during the last presidential
election, eh? Just ask Fred.
What a bunch of crap.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/953/472/1600/democratic_sealsmall.jp
g
So you do agree that voting machines without paper trails are
dangerous.
IIRC, the Diebold machines do produce an audit trail, on CD-R.
I said paper trail. If the system can be gamed at the electronic level,
and we know that Diebold's can, then the electronic audit trail is no
more reliable than the voting results.
That article in the freepress site is the bunch of crap. Whine about a
bunch of minor technical *HUMAN* errors and then whine some more about
how their polls didn't match up with the election results.
Remember, corrupt Democratic machines will also manipulate electronic
voting if they won't be caught. My question is whether your investment
in Diebold is so great that you don't care what the corruption does.
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Ohio's Diebold Debacle: New Machines Call Election Results Into Question |
30 Nov 2005 10:51:19 AM |
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David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:bukro1hgbegj9pffcmvu98tp72pkg24qqs@4ax.com:
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 13:26:09 +0000 (UTC), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns971E55F5CC6BDfstone69@213.155.197.138>:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:d6eqo1pp4p2jb24vtqo90ar6ipm7r1rcaj@4ax.com:
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 03:35:06 +0000 (UTC), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns971DE5EA19621fstone69@213.155.197.138>:
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in
news:Uu6dnXuMvOCHiRDenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@io.com:
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1133313257.255786.105420@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Ohio's Diebold Debacle: New Machines Call Election Results Into
Question
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0511/S00340.htm
by Bob Fitrakis & Harvey Wasserman
November 24, 2005
From: http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1593
Massive Election Day irregularities are emerging in reports from
all over Ohio after the introduction of Diebold's electronic
voting in nearly half of the Buckeye State's counties. A recently
released report by the non-partisan General Accountability Office
warned of such problems with electronic voting machines.
Surprise, fucking surprise!
How odd that they worked PERFECTLY during the last presidential
election, eh? Just ask Fred.
What a bunch of crap.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/953/472/1600/democratic_sealsmall.jp
g
So you do agree that voting machines without paper trails are
dangerous.
IIRC, the Diebold machines do produce an audit trail, on CD-R.
I said paper trail. If the system can be gamed at the electronic
level, and we know that Diebold's can, then the electronic audit trail
is no more reliable than the voting results.
Actually, we do not know that about Diebold's system, unless the
election commissioners and poll watchers are not properly controlling
*physical* access to the machines.
That article in the freepress site is the bunch of crap. Whine about a
bunch of minor technical *HUMAN* errors and then whine some more about
how their polls didn't match up with the election results.
Remember, corrupt Democratic machines will also manipulate electronic
voting if they won't be caught. My question is whether your investment
in Diebold is so great that you don't care what the corruption does.
I have no investment in Diebold.
If the election commission is corrupt enough to let the election be
fixed, that's a separate issue that won't be solved by redesigning the
voting machines to print a paper trail. Paper tapes can be fraudulently
reprinted more easily than CD-R copies of voting logs can be fudged
without leaving a trace.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"I actually think what we learned during the inspection
made Iraq a more dangerous place, potentially, than,
in fact, we thought it was even before the war." -- David Kay
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=6075
.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Ohio's Diebold Debacle: New Machines Call Election Results Into Question |
30 Nov 2005 02:07:39 PM |
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On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:51:19 +0000 (UTC), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns971E78BCD8B52fstone69@213.155.197.138>:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:bukro1hgbegj9pffcmvu98tp72pkg24qqs@4ax.com:
....
IIRC, the Diebold machines do produce an audit trail, on CD-R.
I said paper trail. If the system can be gamed at the electronic
level, and we know that Diebold's can, then the electronic audit trail
is no more reliable than the voting results.
Actually, we do not know that about Diebold's system, unless the
election commissioners and poll watchers are not properly controlling
*physical* access to the machines.
There is electronic access to those machines. I have no trust in the
claim that they cannot be gamed except through physical access.
That article in the freepress site is the bunch of crap. Whine about a
bunch of minor technical *HUMAN* errors and then whine some more about
how their polls didn't match up with the election results.
Remember, corrupt Democratic machines will also manipulate electronic
voting if they won't be caught. My question is whether your investment
in Diebold is so great that you don't care what the corruption does.
I have no investment in Diebold.
If the election commission is corrupt enough to let the election be
fixed, that's a separate issue that won't be solved by redesigning the
voting machines to print a paper trail.
The paper trail is provided by the voting of each voter. Ideally, the
votes are done on paper by the voter and the machine merely counts the
votes. Voting machines of any sort are totally unnecessary. Simple paper
ballots are cheaper, more reliable and more trustworthy with minimal
safeguards.
Paper tapes can be fraudulently
reprinted more easily than CD-R copies of voting logs can be fudged
without leaving a trace.
I agree. I'm not advocating that sort of trail.
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Ohio's Diebold Debacle: New Machines Call Election Results Into Question |
01 Dec 2005 11:23:28 AM |
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David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:ce1so1tn0lkjuoe8mq9b26et74n21oso62@4ax.com:
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:51:19 +0000 (UTC), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns971E78BCD8B52fstone69@213.155.197.138>:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:bukro1hgbegj9pffcmvu98tp72pkg24qqs@4ax.com:
...
IIRC, the Diebold machines do produce an audit trail, on CD-R.
I said paper trail. If the system can be gamed at the electronic
level, and we know that Diebold's can, then the electronic audit
trail is no more reliable than the voting results.
Actually, we do not know that about Diebold's system, unless the
election commissioners and poll watchers are not properly controlling
*physical* access to the machines.
There is electronic access to those machines. I have no trust in the
claim that they cannot be gamed except through physical access.
The voting machines are not connected to any networks during the voting.
That article in the freepress site is the bunch of crap. Whine about
a bunch of minor technical *HUMAN* errors and then whine some more
about how their polls didn't match up with the election results.
Remember, corrupt Democratic machines will also manipulate
electronic voting if they won't be caught. My question is whether
your investment in Diebold is so great that you don't care what the
corruption does.
I have no investment in Diebold.
If the election commission is corrupt enough to let the election be
fixed, that's a separate issue that won't be solved by redesigning the
voting machines to print a paper trail.
The paper trail is provided by the voting of each voter. Ideally, the
votes are done on paper by the voter and the machine merely counts the
votes. Voting machines of any sort are totally unnecessary. Simple
paper ballots are cheaper, more reliable and more trustworthy with
minimal safeguards.
Regardless, if the election commission is corrupt it doesn't matter.
Paper tapes can be fraudulently
reprinted more easily than CD-R copies of voting logs can be fudged
without leaving a trace.
I agree. I'm not advocating that sort of trail.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"I actually think what we learned during the inspection
made Iraq a more dangerous place, potentially, than,
in fact, we thought it was even before the war." -- David Kay
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=6075
.
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| User: "David Jensen" |
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| Title: Re: Ohio's Diebold Debacle: New Machines Call Election Results Into Question |
01 Dec 2005 01:44:50 PM |
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On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 17:23:28 +0000 (UTC), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns971F7E3358294fstone69@213.155.197.138>:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:ce1so1tn0lkjuoe8mq9b26et74n21oso62@4ax.com:
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:51:19 +0000 (UTC), in alt.atheism
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
<Xns971E78BCD8B52fstone69@213.155.197.138>:
David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:bukro1hgbegj9pffcmvu98tp72pkg24qqs@4ax.com:
...
IIRC, the Diebold machines do produce an audit trail, on CD-R.
I said paper trail. If the system can be gamed at the electronic
level, and we know that Diebold's can, then the electronic audit
trail is no more reliable than the voting results.
Actually, we do not know that about Diebold's system, unless the
election commissioners and poll watchers are not properly controlling
*physical* access to the machines.
There is electronic access to those machines. I have no trust in the
claim that they cannot be gamed except through physical access.
The voting machines are not connected to any networks during the voting.
That article in the freepress site is the bunch of crap. Whine about
a bunch of minor technical *HUMAN* errors and then whine some more
about how their polls didn't match up with the election results.
Remember, corrupt Democratic machines will also manipulate
electronic voting if they won't be caught. My question is whether
your investment in Diebold is so great that you don't care what the
corruption does.
I have no investment in Diebold.
If the election commission is corrupt enough to let the election be
fixed, that's a separate issue that won't be solved by redesigning the
voting machines to print a paper trail.
The paper trail is provided by the voting of each voter. Ideally, the
votes are done on paper by the voter and the machine merely counts the
votes. Voting machines of any sort are totally unnecessary. Simple
paper ballots are cheaper, more reliable and more trustworthy with
minimal safeguards.
Regardless, if the election commission is corrupt it doesn't matter.
Certain kinds of fraud are much easier to find. If the entire local
government is corrupt, it will have an easier time continuing its
corruption, that is true.
Paper tapes can be fraudulently
reprinted more easily than CD-R copies of voting logs can be fudged
without leaving a trace.
I agree. I'm not advocating that sort of trail.
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Ohio's Diebold Debacle: New Machines Call Election Results Into Question |
30 Nov 2005 11:23:14 AM |
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On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 13:26:09 +0000 (UTC), in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in <Xns971E55F5CC6BDfstone69@213.155.197.138>
wrote:
[snip]
IIRC, the Diebold machines do produce an audit trail, on CD-R.
That article in the freepress site is the bunch of crap. Whine about a
bunch of minor technical *HUMAN* errors and then whine some more about
how their polls didn't match up with the election results.
Have you yet looked at the discussion in comp.risks? That is a bit
harder a source to ignore. Electronic voting is a Very Bad Thing (tm).
BTW, if you are about to dismiss comp.risks as just a newsgroup I
suggest you look it up. It is not only moderated, it strongly
controlled and very respectable. It may well be the first newsgroup to
lead directly to a published book.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Re: Ohio's Diebold Debacle: New Machines Call Election Results IntoQuestion |
30 Nov 2005 08:13:51 AM |
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Denis Loubet wrote:
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1133313257.255786.105420@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Ohio's Diebold Debacle: New Machines Call Election Results Into
Question
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0511/S00340.htm
by Bob Fitrakis & Harvey Wasserman
November 24, 2005
From: http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1593
Massive Election Day irregularities are emerging in reports from all
over Ohio after the introduction of Diebold's electronic voting in
nearly half of the Buckeye State's counties. A recently released
report by the non-partisan General Accountability Office warned of such
problems with electronic voting machines.
Surprise, fucking surprise!
How odd that they worked PERFECTLY during the last presidential election,
eh? Just ask Fred.
After all, the president of Diebold himself promised a convention of Ohio
Republicans that he would deliver the state for Bush. I tell you, if the
chief executives of Diebold were Democrat activists, you can bet Repugs like
Fred and Fester would be screaming their brains out about election fraud.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"[W]e have never held that moral disapproval, without any other asserted
state interest, is a sufficient rationale under the Equal Protection
Clause to justify a law that discriminates among groups of persons."
- Sandra Day O`Conner, _Lawrence v Texas_
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=000&invol=02-102
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Ohio's Diebold Debacle: New Machines Call Election Results Into Question |
03 Dec 2005 02:50:17 PM |
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On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 06:13:51 -0800, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net>
wrote:
Denis Loubet wrote:
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1133313257.255786.105420@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Ohio's Diebold Debacle: New Machines Call Election Results Into
Question
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0511/S00340.htm
by Bob Fitrakis & Harvey Wasserman
November 24, 2005
From: http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1593
Massive Election Day irregularities are emerging in reports from all
over Ohio after the introduction of Diebold's electronic voting in
nearly half of the Buckeye State's counties. A recently released
report by the non-partisan General Accountability Office warned of such
problems with electronic voting machines.
Surprise, fucking surprise!
How odd that they worked PERFECTLY during the last presidential election,
eh? Just ask Fred.
After all, the president of Diebold himself promised a convention of Ohio
Republicans that he would deliver the state for Bush. I tell you, if the
chief executives of Diebold were Democrat activists, you can bet Repugs like
Fred and Fester would be screaming their brains out about election fraud.
Exactly.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Ohio's Diebold Debacle: New Machines Call Election Results Into Question |
03 Dec 2005 02:49:09 PM |
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On 29 Nov 2005 17:14:17 -0800, "maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ohio's Diebold Debacle: New Machines Call Election Results Into
Question
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0511/S00340.htm
by Bob Fitrakis & Harvey Wasserman
November 24, 2005
From: http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1593
Massive Election Day irregularities are emerging in reports from all
over Ohio after the introduction of Diebold's electronic voting in
nearly half of the Buckeye State's counties. A recently released
report by the non-partisan General Accountability Office warned of such
problems with electronic voting machines.
E-voting machine disasters
Prior to the 2005 election, electronic voting machines from Diebold
and other Republican voting machine manufacturers were newly installed
in 41 of Ohio’s 88 counties. The Dayton Daily News reported that in
Montgomery County, for example, “Some machines began registering votes
for the wrong item when voters touched the screen correctly. Those
machines had lost their calibration during shipping or installation
and had to be recalibrated. . . .”
Steve Harsman, the Director of the Montgomery County Board of
Elections (BOE), told the Daily News that the recalibration could be
done on site, but poll workers had never performed the task before.
The city of Carlisle, Ohio announced on November 22 that it is
contesting the results of the November 8 general election as a result
of Montgomery County vote counting problems. Carlisle Mayor Jerry
Ellender told the Middletown Journal that the count on the city’s
continuing $3.8 million replacement fire levy is invalid “since they
are not sure if Carlisle voters received the right ballots on the new
electronic voting machines.”
Harsman, according to the Journal, said, “poll workers incorrectly
encoded voter cards that are used to bring up the ballots on the
electronic machines in precincts in Germantown and Carlisle.”
At least 225 votes were registered for the fire levy in precincts with
only 148 registered voters, according to the Journal. In addition, 187
voting machine memory cards were lost for most of election night in
Montgomery County, according to the Dayton Daily News.
In Lucas County, election results appeared more than 13 hours after
the close of polls. The Toledo Blade cited “‘frightened’ poll
workers,” intimidated by the new “touch-screen voting machines.”
The Blade found that despite an $87,568 federal grant to the Lucas
County Board of Elections for “voter education and poll worker
training . . .” only $1,718.65 was spent from the grant.
The Blade also reported that ten days after the 2005 election,
“Fourteen touch-screen voting machines have sat unattended in the
central hallway at the University of Toledo Scott Park Campus.” The
GAO report warned that touch-screen machines are easily hacked and
should be kept secure at all times.
In Miami County, the Board of Elections fired the Deputy Director,
Diane Miley, following a 20-minute closed-door session reviewing the
November 8, 2005 general election.
The Free Press had reported that in the 2004 presidential election,
Miami County was cited in the seminal Moss v. Bush election challenge
case. The county was specifically cited for an early morning influx of
19,000 additional votes, mostly for Bush, after 100% of the vote had
been reported.
The AP reported additional irregularities in the 2005 election in
Ohio. In Wood County, election results were not posted until 6:23 a.m.
after poll workers at four polling places accidentally selected the
wrong option on voting machines preventing the machine memory cards
from being automatically uploaded, according to the Board of Elections
Deputy Director Debbie Hazard.
In five counties – Brown, Crawford, Jackson, Jefferson and Marion –
using Diebold machines, there were problems with the counting of
absentee ballots as a result of “the width of the ballot,” the AP
reported.
In Scioto County, the vote count was not finished until 4:30 a.m..
Board of Elections Director Steve Mowery informed the Portsmouth Daily
Times that, as a result of machines undergoing insufficient testing
and absentee problems, things went “poorly.”
Many counties used “roving employees” assigned to pick up memory cards
from voting machines. In Lucas County, these “rovers” traveled “to
multiple locations before delivering the cards to the election office
at Governmental Center.” The polls closed at 7:30 p.m. but, “The final
memory cards were delivered to the Board of Elections office just
before midnight,” according to WTOL Channel 11 News, Toledo.
Toledo’s WTOL Channel 11 News posed the simple question: “Did the
delay in returning memory cards to the election office open the door
to possible vote fraud?”
Amidst these massive glitches, Ohio Secretary of State J. Kenneth
Blackwell, who personally negotiated the deal for the Diebold machines
that he called the “best in the nation,” insisted through his
spokesperson Carlo LaParo that “The new touch-screen systems went
well.”
Odd results for election reform initiatives
The Reform Ohio Now (RON) campaign saw polls throughout the state
showing two of its four election reform to be passing easily. Both the
Columbus Dispatch and University of Akron Bliss Institute polls
predicted victories for Issue 2 and Issue 3, only to see them go down
to sudden and statistically unexplainable defeat. Issue 2 allowed for
early voting in Ohio and Issue 3 reduced the amount of money an
individual can give a candidate from $10,000 to $2,000. Both were
predicted to pass with 59% and 61% of the vote, respectively.
The Bliss Institute of Applied Politics’ survey was completed on
October 20 at the University of Akron Survey Research Center, and
found that Issue 2 seemed likely to win approval with more than
three-fifths of likely voters.
The Dispatch mail-in poll was completed on Thursday Nov. 3, just prior
to Election Day. The Dispatch poll is so accurate, that at least two
academic studies have been published about it in the Public Opinion
Quarterly (POQ). The first paper documents that the Dispatch poll
between 1980-1984 was far more accurate than telephone polling. The
study showed the Dispatch error rate at only 1.6 percentage points
versus phone error rates of 5%. A companion study published in POQ in
2000 dealt specifically with the question of statewide referenda. A
quote from the study: "The average error for the Dispatch forecast of
these referenda was 5.4 percentage points, compared to 7.2 percentage
points for the telephone surveys."
The academic study concluded that the Dispatch's mail survey
outperformed telephone surveys for both referenda and candidate's
races.
The fact that the Dispatch was nearly 30 points off in predicting the
"YES" vote on Issue 3 should raise concerns.
Dispatch Associate Publisher Mike Curtin shrugged off the worst
polling performance since the infamous Literary Digest predicted that
Alf Landon would beat FDR in 1936. In an email obtained by the Free
Press, Curtin told California voting rights activist Sheri Myers,
“There is no evidence of any irregularities in Ohio’s 2005 voting
results.” Curtin, according to election attorney Cliff Arnebeck, had
also dismissed anyone who raises issues about Ohio’s 2004 presidential
election results as “conspiracy theorists.”
Curtin co-authored the scholarly papers on the Dispatch’s legendary
polling accuracy. Editorially, the Dispatch has not endorsed a
Democratic presidential candidate since Woodrow Wilson in 1916.
Curtin pleaded with the voting rights activists, “Please don’t buy
into the conspiracy theories without any shred of evidence.” Curtin
did not deal with the specifics about how the polling, which he was so
proud of, was up to 40 points off on certain issues for the first time
ever. In another email explaining the unprecedented Dispatch polling
debacle, Dispatch Editor Darrel Rowland told a Tribune Media Services
columnist that, “I also can’t imagine voting technology is to blame,
when both Democrats and Republicans are involved in every crucial step
of the way.”
Under oath testimony at public hearings sponsored by the Free Press
after the 2004 presidential election revealed that election workers
admit that they have little or no knowledge of how e-voting technology
works and are totally reliant on private vendors for vote counting
inside the “black box.” Ohio’s other major newspapers routinely
suggest what Rowland “can’t imagine.”
Rowland did note that despite the Dispatch’s recent embracing of its
unprecedented incompetence at polling that, “Over the years we have
found that the people who return our mail poll are likely voters – the
holy grail in political polls. Our track record in gauging public
opinion in this state regarded as a national political bellwether is
unparalleled.
Don McTigue, the attorney for RON, told the Free Press that Blackwell
had issued a ruling barring RON volunteers from the county vote
counting rooms on election eve. McTigue and the RON volunteers had
filled out a request form to view the counting eleven days prior to
Election Day, but Blackwell had added a new form to verify which group
was representing the issues. This new form was not filled out, McTigue
admits.
Matt Damschroder, the Franklin County Board of Elections Director,
allowed the RON observers in anyway, despite their being barred from
the vote counting rooms in other counties.
This is the second straight election in which the polling
organizations were spectacularly wrong in Ohio. In the 2004 election,
the media consortium exit polls, as well as the Harris and Zogby
polls, all declared Kerry the winner on Election Day.
Democracy in jeopardy
One of the first times electronic voting machines were used, in the
1988 New Hampshire presidential primary, former CIA director George
Herbert Walker Bush pulled off a stunning and unpredicted upset. The
last poll before that primary showed Senator Bob Dole winning with 8
percentage points. Bush won by 9 points, a startling 17-point shift.
Bush’s e-voting victory allowed him to claim the White House and paved
the way for his son to become the United States’ chief executive.
Diebold electronic voting machines use non-transparent, proprietary
software to count the votes. Diebold’s CEO Wally O’Dell is one of
President Bush’s major donors and fundraisers.
Election Day news coverage from the 41 counties that adopted Diebold
touch-screen machines makes it clear that poll worker ignorance about
how to use the high-tech equipment and machine glitches were
widespread problems in 2005. Diebold technicians in many areas were
key in producing the final vote results.
Use of e-voting machines has resulted in two elections with improbable
results in Ohio, with potentially catastrophic outcomes for American
democracy – especially if they are ignored.
--
Bob Fitrakis & Harvey Wasserman are co-authors of HOW THE GOP STOLE
AMERICA’S 2004 ELECTION & IS RIGGING 2008, available at
www.freepress.org and at www.harveywasserman.com, and, with Steve
Rosenfeld, of WHAT HAPPENED IN OHIO?, to be published by the New Press
in 2006.
/end article
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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