| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Mark K. Bilbo" |
| Date: |
13 Jan 2008 12:17:06 PM |
| Object: |
OT: Oooookay.... |
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/01/11/valdosta
"T. Hayden Barnes opposed his university’s plan to build two large
parking garages with $30 million from students’ mandatory fees. So last
spring, he did what any student activist would do: He posted fliers
criticizing the plan, wrote mass e-mails to students, sent letters to
administrators and wrote a letter to the editor of the campus
newspaper....Rather than ignore him or set up a meeting with concerned
students, Valdosta State University, in Georgia, informed Barnes, then a
sophomore, that he had been 'administratively withdrawn' effective May 7,
2007. In a letter apparently slipped under his dorm room door, Ronald
Zaccari, the university’s president, wrote that he 'present[ed] a clear
and present danger to this campus'..."
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
"So let us be blunt about it: we must use the doctrine of
religious liberty to gain independence for Christian schools
until we train up a generation of people who know that there is
no religious neutrality, no neutral law, no neutral education,
and no neutral civil government. Then they will get busy in
constructing a Bible-based social, political, and religious
order which finally denies the religious liberty of the
enemies of God."
-- Gary North in "Failure of the American Baptist Culture"
.
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Oooookay.... |
13 Jan 2008 05:08:20 PM |
|
|
"Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote in
news:261q55-ke71.ln1@75-104-212-43.cust.wildblue.net:
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/01/11/valdosta
"T. Hayden Barnes opposed his university's plan to build two large
parking garages with $30 million from students' mandatory fees. So
last spring, he did what any student activist would do: He posted
fliers criticizing the plan, wrote mass e-mails to students, sent
letters to administrators and wrote a letter to the editor of the
campus newspaper....Rather than ignore him or set up a meeting with
concerned students, Valdosta State University, in Georgia, informed
Barnes, then a sophomore, that he had been 'administratively
withdrawn' effective May 7, 2007. In a letter apparently slipped under
his dorm room door, Ronald Zaccari, the university's president,
wrote that he 'present[ed] a clear and present danger to this
campus'..."
Time for a legal action.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
"There is joy in rationality, happiness in clarity of mind. Free thought
is thrilling and fulfilling--absolutely essential to mental health and
happiness."
-Dan Barker
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Oooookay.... |
14 Jan 2008 08:40:09 AM |
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On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 23:08:20 +0000, Enkidu wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote in
news:261q55-ke71.ln1@75-104-212-43.cust.wildblue.net:
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/01/11/valdosta
"T. Hayden Barnes opposed his university's plan to build two large
parking garages with $30 million from students' mandatory fees. So last
spring, he did what any student activist would do: He posted fliers
criticizing the plan, wrote mass e-mails to students, sent letters to
administrators and wrote a letter to the editor of the campus
newspaper....Rather than ignore him or set up a meeting with concerned
students, Valdosta State University, in Georgia, informed Barnes, then
a sophomore, that he had been 'administratively withdrawn' effective
May 7, 2007. In a letter apparently slipped under his dorm room door,
Ronald Zaccari, the university's president, wrote that he 'present[ed]
a clear and present danger to this campus'..."
Time for a legal action.
He's filed one...
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
“All government, of course, is against liberty.”
- H. L. Mencken
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| User: "David Canzi -- non-mailable" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Oooookay.... |
13 Jan 2008 06:25:14 PM |
|
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In article <261q55-ke71.ln1@75-104-212-43.cust.wildblue.net>,
Mark K. Bilbo <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/01/11/valdosta
"T. Hayden Barnes opposed his university’s plan to build two large
parking garages with $30 million from students’ mandatory fees. So last
spring, he did what any student activist would do: He posted fliers
criticizing the plan, wrote mass e-mails to students, sent letters to
administrators and wrote a letter to the editor of the campus
newspaper....Rather than ignore him or set up a meeting with concerned
students, Valdosta State University, in Georgia, informed Barnes, then a
sophomore, that he had been 'administratively withdrawn' effective May 7,
2007. In a letter apparently slipped under his dorm room door, Ronald
Zaccari, the university’s president, wrote that he 'present[ed] a clear
and present danger to this campus'..."
Barnes "wrote mass e-mails to students." In other words, he
spammed them. More than once. That is not "what any student
activist would do."
Let one fool get away with spamming the student body and everybody
else who has a message he/she wants everybody to hear will want
to do it too, and having allowed it once it would become much
harder for the university to justify stopping them.
No matter how well or how poorly justified any of Barnes' other
actions were, spamming the student body can not be tolerated.
--
David Canzi | Eternal truths come and go. |
.
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| User: "Meteorite Debris" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Oooookay.... |
14 Jan 2008 07:19:47 AM |
|
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Last time that great scribe David Canzi -- non-mailable=20
<dmcanzi@remulak.uwaterloo.ca> chipped away at his/her stone these gems=20
of wisdom for posterity ...
In article <261q55-ke71.ln1@75-104-212-43.cust.wildblue.net>,
Mark K. Bilbo <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/01/11/valdosta
"T. Hayden Barnes opposed his university=E2=A4=3D3Fs plan to build two l=
arge=20
parking garages with $30 million from students=E2=A4=3D3F mandatory fees=
.. So last=20
spring, he did what any student activist would do: He posted fliers=20
criticizing the plan, wrote mass e-mails to students, sent letters to=20
administrators and wrote a letter to the editor of the campus=20
newspaper....Rather than ignore him or set up a meeting with concerned=
=20
students, Valdosta State University, in Georgia, informed Barnes, then a=
=20
sophomore, that he had been 'administratively withdrawn' effective May 7=
,=20
2007. In a letter apparently slipped under his dorm room door, Ronald=20
Zaccari, the university=E2=A4=3D3Fs president, wrote that he 'present[ed=
] a clear=20
and present danger to this campus'..."
=20
Barnes "wrote mass e-mails to students." In other words, he
spammed them. More than once. That is not "what any student
activist would do."
=20
Let one fool get away with spamming the student body and everybody
else who has a message he/she wants everybody to hear will want
to do it too, and having allowed it once it would become much
harder for the university to justify stopping them.
=20
No matter how well or how poorly justified any of Barnes' other
actions were, spamming the student body can not be tolerated.
That is not Barnes' problem. It's a problem with the uni admin making=20
everyone's email available.
--=20
Remove both YOUR_SHOES before replying
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,=20
Chief EAC prophet=20
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2009
Apatriotism Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apatriotism
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make=20
you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
.
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| User: "David Canzi -- non-mailable" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Oooookay.... |
14 Jan 2008 02:39:48 PM |
|
|
In article <MPG.21f60574b1ce5e198990f@news.ade.connect.com.au>,
Meteorite Debris <epicurusboth@YOUR_SHOESaapt.net.au> wrote:
Last time that great scribe David Canzi -- non-mailable
<dmcanzi@remulak.uwaterloo.ca> chipped away at his/her stone these gems
of wisdom for posterity ...
Barnes "wrote mass e-mails to students." In other words, he
spammed them. More than once. That is not "what any student
activist would do."
Let one fool get away with spamming the student body and everybody
else who has a message he/she wants everybody to hear will want
to do it too, and having allowed it once it would become much
harder for the university to justify stopping them.
No matter how well or how poorly justified any of Barnes' other
actions were, spamming the student body can not be tolerated.
That is not Barnes' problem. It's a problem with the uni admin making
everyone's email available.
I used to know a woman whose son had stolen a car. She tried
to convince the judge that her son's sentence should be reduced
because the car was sitting unlocked with the keys in the ignition
when he stole it.
--
David Canzi | Eternal truths come and go. |
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| User: "Lucifer" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Oooookay.... |
13 Jan 2008 09:01:48 PM |
|
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On Jan 14, 12:25 am, (David Canzi -- non-
mailable) wrote:
In article <261q55-ke71....@75-104-212-43.cust.wildblue.net>,
Mark K. Bilbo <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/01/11/valdosta
"T. Hayden Barnes opposed his university's plan to build two large
parking garages with $30 million from students' mandatory fees. So last
spring, he did what any student activist would do: He posted fliers
criticizing the plan, wrote mass e-mails to students, sent letters to
administrators and wrote a letter to the editor of the campus
newspaper....Rather than ignore him or set up a meeting with concerned
students, Valdosta State University, in Georgia, informed Barnes, then a
sophomore, that he had been 'administratively withdrawn' effective May 7,
2007. In a letter apparently slipped under his dorm room door, Ronald
Zaccari, the university's president, wrote that he 'present[ed] a clear
and present danger to this campus'..."
Barnes "wrote mass e-mails to students." In other words, he
spammed them. More than once. That is not "what any student
activist would do."
You not met any student activists then?
--
Lucifer the Unsubtle, EAC Librarian of Dark Tomes of Excessive Evil
and General Purpose Igor
The Anti-Theist, BAAWA Lowly Evilmeister and tamer of the Demon Duck
of Doom
Convicted by Earthquack
"Don't worry, I won't bite.......hard"
.
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| User: "David Canzi -- non-mailable" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Oooookay.... |
13 Jan 2008 10:34:31 PM |
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In article <eba6e846-2d40-4af2-83d7-d9fa5e3c5d22@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Lucifer <wyrdology@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 14, 12:25 am, (David Canzi -- non-
mailable) wrote:
In article <261q55-ke71....@75-104-212-43.cust.wildblue.net>,
Mark K. Bilbo <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/01/11/valdosta
"T. Hayden Barnes opposed his university's plan to build two large
parking garages with $30 million from students' mandatory fees. So last
spring, he did what any student activist would do: He posted fliers
criticizing the plan, wrote mass e-mails to students, sent letters to
administrators and wrote a letter to the editor of the campus
newspaper....Rather than ignore him or set up a meeting with concerned
students, Valdosta State University, in Georgia, informed Barnes, then a
sophomore, that he had been 'administratively withdrawn' effective May 7,
2007. In a letter apparently slipped under his dorm room door, Ronald
Zaccari, the university's president, wrote that he 'present[ed] a clear
and present danger to this campus'..."
Barnes "wrote mass e-mails to students." In other words, he
spammed them. More than once. That is not "what any student
activist would do."
You not met any student activists then?
I can't remember anybody on campus ever spamming the student body.
That may be not because they wouldn't but because they couldn't:
I don't think a list of campus email addresses is generally
available.
--
David Canzi | Eternal truths come and go. |
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| User: "Daniel Kolle" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Oooookay.... |
13 Jan 2008 07:06:17 PM |
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On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 00:25:14 +0000 (UTC),
(David Canzi -- non-mailable) wrote:
In article <261q55-ke71.ln1@75-104-212-43.cust.wildblue.net>,
Mark K. Bilbo <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/01/11/valdosta
"T. Hayden Barnes opposed his university’s plan to build two large
parking garages with $30 million from students’ mandatory fees. So last
spring, he did what any student activist would do: He posted fliers
criticizing the plan, wrote mass e-mails to students, sent letters to
administrators and wrote a letter to the editor of the campus
newspaper....Rather than ignore him or set up a meeting with concerned
students, Valdosta State University, in Georgia, informed Barnes, then a
sophomore, that he had been 'administratively withdrawn' effective May 7,
2007. In a letter apparently slipped under his dorm room door, Ronald
Zaccari, the university’s president, wrote that he 'present[ed] a clear
and present danger to this campus'..."
Barnes "wrote mass e-mails to students." In other words, he
spammed them. More than once. That is not "what any student
activist would do."
Let one fool get away with spamming the student body and everybody
else who has a message he/she wants everybody to hear will want
to do it too, and having allowed it once it would become much
harder for the university to justify stopping them.
No matter how well or how poorly justified any of Barnes' other
actions were, spamming the student body can not be tolerated.
How does spamming constitute a "clear and present danger" to VSU's
campus?
.
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| User: "David Canzi -- non-mailable" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Oooookay.... |
13 Jan 2008 10:11:13 PM |
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In article <6adlo31rn0q2gri0mmpc81d86haprjfgjr@4ax.com>,
Daniel Kolle <Daniel.Kolle@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 00:25:14 +0000 (UTC),
(David Canzi -- non-mailable) wrote:
In article <261q55-ke71.ln1@75-104-212-43.cust.wildblue.net>,
Mark K. Bilbo <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/01/11/valdosta
"T. Hayden Barnes opposed his university’s plan to build two large
parking garages with $30 million from students’ mandatory fees. So last
spring, he did what any student activist would do: He posted fliers
criticizing the plan, wrote mass e-mails to students, sent letters to
administrators and wrote a letter to the editor of the campus
newspaper....Rather than ignore him or set up a meeting with concerned
students, Valdosta State University, in Georgia, informed Barnes, then a
sophomore, that he had been 'administratively withdrawn' effective May 7,
2007. In a letter apparently slipped under his dorm room door, Ronald
Zaccari, the university’s president, wrote that he 'present[ed] a clear
and present danger to this campus'..."
Barnes "wrote mass e-mails to students." In other words, he
spammed them. More than once. That is not "what any student
activist would do."
Let one fool get away with spamming the student body and everybody
else who has a message he/she wants everybody to hear will want
to do it too, and having allowed it once it would become much
harder for the university to justify stopping them.
No matter how well or how poorly justified any of Barnes' other
actions were, spamming the student body can not be tolerated.
How does spamming constitute a "clear and present danger" to VSU's
campus?
It doesn't. It just makes me unsympathetic to Mr. Barnes. The
article at insidehighered.com also says this:
| In a reply to Barnes's complaint to the university, the Board
| of Regents said Barnes had contacted system-wide administrators
| and board members, "telling them that he had met with President
| Zaccari on this issue, when he had not."
Spamming and dishonesty...
--
David Canzi | Eternal truths come and go. |
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| User: "Apostate" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Oooookay.... |
13 Jan 2008 11:46:01 PM |
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|
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 19:06:17 -0600, Daniel Kolle <Daniel.Kolle@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 00:25:14 +0000 (UTC),
(David Canzi -- non-mailable) wrote:
In article <261q55-ke71.ln1@75-104-212-43.cust.wildblue.net>,
Mark K. Bilbo <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/01/11/valdosta
"T. Hayden Barnes opposed his university’s plan to build two large
parking garages with $30 million from students’ mandatory fees. So last
spring, he did what any student activist would do: He posted fliers
criticizing the plan, wrote mass e-mails to students, sent letters to
administrators and wrote a letter to the editor of the campus
newspaper....Rather than ignore him or set up a meeting with concerned
students, Valdosta State University, in Georgia, informed Barnes, then a
sophomore, that he had been 'administratively withdrawn' effective May 7,
2007. In a letter apparently slipped under his dorm room door, Ronald
Zaccari, the university’s president, wrote that he 'present[ed] a clear
and present danger to this campus'..."
Barnes "wrote mass e-mails to students." In other words, he
spammed them. More than once. That is not "what any student
activist would do."
Let one fool get away with spamming the student body and everybody
else who has a message he/she wants everybody to hear will want
to do it too, and having allowed it once it would become much
harder for the university to justify stopping them.
No matter how well or how poorly justified any of Barnes' other
actions were, spamming the student body can not be tolerated.
How does spamming constitute a "clear and present danger" to VSU's
campus?
<Devil's Advocate>
Remember the bile-filled brat in Virginia who shot up 32 perfectly good live humans and made
them dead humans before doing the decent thing and offing himself?
The U. has a policy (now, dunno about before) of warning students by e-mail when there are
security issues they need to know about quickly. Suppose not one, but several hundred students
were spamming the whole campus community so that legitimate, and in this case, urgent e-mail
were held up, or even impossible to download?
--
Apostate a.a. #1931
..sig currently undergoing maintenance
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Oooookay.... |
14 Jan 2008 08:52:35 AM |
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On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 00:46:01 -0500, Apostate wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 19:06:17 -0600, Daniel Kolle
<Daniel.Kolle@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 00:25:14 +0000 (UTC),
(David Canzi -- non-mailable) wrote:
In article <261q55-ke71.ln1@75-104-212-43.cust.wildblue.net>, Mark K.
Bilbo <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/01/11/valdosta
"T. Hayden Barnes opposed his universityâs plan to build two large
parking garages with $30 million from studentsâ mandatory fees. So
last spring, he did what any student activist would do: He posted
fliers criticizing the plan, wrote mass e-mails to students, sent
letters to administrators and wrote a letter to the editor of the
campus newspaper....Rather than ignore him or set up a meeting with
concerned students, Valdosta State University, in Georgia, informed
Barnes, then a sophomore, that he had been 'administratively
withdrawn' effective May 7, 2007. In a letter apparently slipped under
his dorm room door, Ronald Zaccari, the universityâs president,
wrote that he 'present[ed] a clear and present danger to this
campus'..."
Barnes "wrote mass e-mails to students." In other words, he spammed
them. More than once. That is not "what any student activist would
do."
Let one fool get away with spamming the student body and everybody else
who has a message he/she wants everybody to hear will want to do it
too, and having allowed it once it would become much harder for the
university to justify stopping them.
No matter how well or how poorly justified any of Barnes' other actions
were, spamming the student body can not be tolerated.
How does spamming constitute a "clear and present danger" to VSU's
campus?
<Devil's Advocate>
Remember the bile-filled brat in Virginia who shot up 32 perfectly good
live humans and made them dead humans before doing the decent thing and
offing himself?
The U. has a policy (now, dunno about before) of warning students by
e-mail when there are security issues they need to know about quickly.
Suppose not one, but several hundred students were spamming the whole
campus community so that legitimate, and in this case, urgent e-mail
were held up, or even impossible to download?
Then the university is a pack of idiots who can't run a basic email
system...
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
“There's really no point to voting. If it made any
difference, it would probably be illegal”
- H. L. Mencken
.
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| User: "Apostate" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Oooookay.... |
14 Jan 2008 12:49:19 PM |
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On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 08:52:35 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 00:46:01 -0500, Apostate wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 19:06:17 -0600, Daniel Kolle
<Daniel.Kolle@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 00:25:14 +0000 (UTC),
(David Canzi -- non-mailable) wrote:
In article <261q55-ke71.ln1@75-104-212-43.cust.wildblue.net>, Mark K.
Bilbo <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/01/11/valdosta
"T. Hayden Barnes opposed his university??s plan to build two large
parking garages with $30 million from students?? mandatory fees. So
last spring, he did what any student activist would do: He posted
fliers criticizing the plan, wrote mass e-mails to students, sent
letters to administrators and wrote a letter to the editor of the
campus newspaper....Rather than ignore him or set up a meeting with
concerned students, Valdosta State University, in Georgia, informed
Barnes, then a sophomore, that he had been 'administratively
withdrawn' effective May 7, 2007. In a letter apparently slipped under
his dorm room door, Ronald Zaccari, the university??s president,
wrote that he 'present[ed] a clear and present danger to this
campus'..."
Barnes "wrote mass e-mails to students." In other words, he spammed
them. More than once. That is not "what any student activist would
do."
Let one fool get away with spamming the student body and everybody else
who has a message he/she wants everybody to hear will want to do it
too, and having allowed it once it would become much harder for the
university to justify stopping them.
No matter how well or how poorly justified any of Barnes' other actions
were, spamming the student body can not be tolerated.
How does spamming constitute a "clear and present danger" to VSU's
campus?
<Devil's Advocate>
Remember the bile-filled brat in Virginia who shot up 32 perfectly good
live humans and made them dead humans before doing the decent thing and
offing himself?
The U. has a policy (now, dunno about before) of warning students by
e-mail when there are security issues they need to know about quickly.
Suppose not one, but several hundred students were spamming the whole
campus community so that legitimate, and in this case, urgent e-mail
were held up, or even impossible to download?
Then the university is a pack of idiots who can't run a basic email
system...
Maybe so; I was only addressing the question how spam could raise "present danger" flags,
admittedly in the abstract.
--
Apostate a.a. #1931
..sig currently undergoing maintenance
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Oooookay.... |
14 Jan 2008 08:51:56 AM |
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On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 00:25:14 +0000, David Canzi -- non-mailable wrote:
In article <261q55-ke71.ln1@75-104-212-43.cust.wildblue.net>, Mark K.
Bilbo <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/01/11/valdosta
"T. Hayden Barnes opposed his university’s plan to build two large
parking garages with $30 million from students’ mandatory fees. So last
spring, he did what any student activist would do: He posted fliers
criticizing the plan, wrote mass e-mails to students, sent letters to
administrators and wrote a letter to the editor of the campus
newspaper....Rather than ignore him or set up a meeting with concerned
students, Valdosta State University, in Georgia, informed Barnes, then a
sophomore, that he had been 'administratively withdrawn' effective May
7, 2007. In a letter apparently slipped under his dorm room door, Ronald
Zaccari, the university’s president, wrote that he 'present[ed] a clear
and present danger to this campus'..."
Barnes "wrote mass e-mails to students." In other words, he spammed
them.
There's no way to derive that from the above. They could as easily be
talking about mailing lists as anything.
Further, we're not talking about "spam". We're talking political speech
at a public institution. Those are *not* private email boxes held by
individuals, they are state property. You cannot apply the same rules
blindly, they don't fit.
Yes, there need to be limits because we are talking shared, public
property. An "activist" who clogged every email box on campus sending a
billion rants a minute is abusing shared resources. But expulsion? That's
warranted how? Moderating or even cutting off their email account would
fit the "crime" better yes?
(In fact, if you have IT people with half a brain, moderating outbound
mail from an account isn't any big thing and they should have the
capabilities set up already to deal with such issues. Enforcement should
be trivial.)
By the way, this university has also implemented "free speech zones" and
strictly limited them to two hours per day.
http://www.valdosta.edu/judicial/FreeExpressionAreaFEAGuidelines.shtml
Gotta love that "marketplace of ideas"...
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
“Communism, like any other revealed religion,
is largely made up of prophecies.”
- H. L. Mencken
.
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| User: "David Canzi -- non-mailable" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Oooookay.... |
20 Jan 2008 11:46:35 PM |
|
|
In article <ch9s55-qe1.ln1@75-104-213-142.cust.wildblue.net>,
Mark K. Bilbo <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 00:25:14 +0000, David Canzi -- non-mailable wrote:
In article <261q55-ke71.ln1@75-104-212-43.cust.wildblue.net>, Mark K.
Bilbo <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/01/11/valdosta
"T. Hayden Barnes opposed his university’s plan to build two large
parking garages with $30 million from students’ mandatory fees. So last
spring, he did what any student activist would do: He posted fliers
criticizing the plan, wrote mass e-mails to students, sent letters to
administrators and wrote a letter to the editor of the campus
newspaper....Rather than ignore him or set up a meeting with concerned
students, Valdosta State University, in Georgia, informed Barnes, then a
sophomore, that he had been 'administratively withdrawn' effective May
7, 2007. In a letter apparently slipped under his dorm room door, Ronald
Zaccari, the university’s president, wrote that he 'present[ed] a clear
and present danger to this campus'..."
Barnes "wrote mass e-mails to students." In other words, he spammed
them.
There's no way to derive that from the above. They could as easily be
talking about mailing lists as anything.
Further, we're not talking about "spam". We're talking political speech
at a public institution. Those are *not* private email boxes held by
individuals, they are state property. You cannot apply the same rules
blindly, they don't fit.
The definition of spam that works best is "unsolicited bulk email".
Whether an email is spam does not depend on what the email says,
or the sender's motivation, or whether the receiving email server
belongs to some governmental or government-funded organization.
Barnes's mailing was definitely e-mail, definitely bulk, and
probably unsolicited, ie. the students who received it probably
neither asked for it nor consented to receive it. It was spam,
as far as I can tell.
I'm making no claims about whether the university administration's
actions were justified or not. We're not hearing their side of
the story, possibly because legal cousel have told them to dummy
up until the case goes to court.
--
David Canzi | Eternal truths come and go. |
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Oooookay.... |
21 Jan 2008 09:30:06 AM |
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On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 05:46:35 +0000 in fn1bjr$4d5$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca,
dmcanzi@remulak.uwaterloo.ca (David Canzi -- non-mailable) wrote:
In article <ch9s55-qe1.ln1@75-104-213-142.cust.wildblue.net>, Mark K.
Bilbo <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 00:25:14 +0000, David Canzi -- non-mailable wrote:
In article <261q55-ke71.ln1@75-104-212-43.cust.wildblue.net>, Mark K.
Bilbo <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/01/11/valdosta
"T. Hayden Barnes opposed his university’s plan to build two large
parking garages with $30 million from students’ mandatory fees. So
last spring, he did what any student activist would do: He posted
fliers criticizing the plan, wrote mass e-mails to students, sent
letters to administrators and wrote a letter to the editor of the
campus newspaper....Rather than ignore him or set up a meeting with
concerned students, Valdosta State University, in Georgia, informed
Barnes, then a sophomore, that he had been 'administratively
withdrawn' effective May 7, 2007. In a letter apparently slipped under
his dorm room door, Ronald Zaccari, the university’s president, wrote
that he 'present[ed] a clear and present danger to this campus'..."
Barnes "wrote mass e-mails to students." In other words, he spammed
them.
There's no way to derive that from the above. They could as easily be
talking about mailing lists as anything.
Further, we're not talking about "spam". We're talking political speech
at a public institution. Those are *not* private email boxes held by
individuals, they are state property. You cannot apply the same rules
blindly, they don't fit.
The definition of spam that works best is "unsolicited bulk email".
Whether an email is spam does not depend on what the email says, or the
sender's motivation, or whether the receiving email server belongs to
some governmental or government-funded organization. Barnes's mailing
was definitely e-mail, definitely bulk, and probably unsolicited, ie.
the students who received it probably neither asked for it nor consented
to receive it. It was spam, as far as I can tell.
You said "probably". But, again, we cannot derive that from the story.
"...wrote mass e-mails to students..." could just as easily mean "had a
mailing list" or "wrote to mailing lists". There are such lists on
campuses. Student organizations that are interested in policies of their
schools.
My point is we do not know from the above that any of his email was
"unsolicited". "Bulk" or "mass" does not, itself, constitute
"unsolicited".
I'm making no claims about whether the university administration's
actions were justified or not. We're not hearing their side of the
story, possibly because legal cousel have told them to dummy up until
the case goes to court.
But the claims they made to the student look absurd. Calling a proposed
structure a "memorial" (or calling anything a "memorial" for that matter)
for some person is not expressing a desire to kill them. People do it all
the time. We do it here from time to time, proposing a "memorial"
something or other for some notable (for lunacy or whatever) troll. This
does not mean any of us mean to do them harm.
Such as I recall making a similar remark about duckshit. Something like
(it's been a while now, memory not what it used to be <g>) an "Earl
Webber Memorial" some kind of award or other. Had he responded by running
about the ng screaming I meant to kill him, everybody would have laughed
themselves silly right?
For that matter, over in a.u.k., they have several "memorial" awards
named after people who are alive. By the university's reasoning, the
a.u.k. denizens are potential serial killers. Can you get more absurd?
Finally, the university didn't expel him for "spamming". They claimed he
was "threatening". I think they know damn well that trying to style it as
abuse of university resources would be dicey. Tax supported institutions
restricting political speech are on thin ice. Even if he *was* sending
unsolicited (which we don't actually know) bulk emails.
Again, we're not talking private email boxes. In the case of private
ones, anything you don't happen to want constitutes "unsolicited" email
regardless of content. Just as people have no inherent right to have a
protest march in your yard.
But an email box at a publicly funded university belongs to the
taxpayers. Like sidewalks. People can protest you on the sidewalk in
front of your house. You only own that jointly, not exclusively. You
can't chase the protesters off "your" sidewalk. Doesn't work that way.
Just because it passes right in front of your private property and you
use it all the time doesn't make it "yours". Right?
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
"Biblical law permits voluntary slavery because it recognizes
that some people are not able to maintain a position of
independence....The law is humane and also unsentimental."
-- R.J. Rushdooney, architect of "Christian Reconstructionism."
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| User: "Hatter" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Oooookay.... |
14 Jan 2008 01:47:51 PM |
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On Jan 14, 9:51=A0am, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
By the way, this university has also implemented "free speech zones" and
strictly limited them to two hours per day.
http://www.valdosta.edu/judicial/FreeExpressionAreaFEAGuidelines.shtml
Gotta love that "marketplace of ideas"...
"Free Speech zones" disturb me, I'll tell you why: Do you remember
when resteraunts and Bars instituted smoking sections about 20 years
ago? Then it was a law limiting smoking to a section, Now in most
states, you cannot smoke in a bar or resteraunt. I'm not saying
anything about smoking, but about the precedent of creating regions
for what used to be a right everywhere. It is generally a precurser to
a ban a few decades down the road.
Hatter
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| User: "Apostate" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Oooookay.... |
14 Jan 2008 02:17:47 PM |
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On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:47:51 -0800 (PST), Hatter <Hatter23@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jan 14, 9:51am, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
By the way, this university has also implemented "free speech zones" and
strictly limited them to two hours per day.
http://www.valdosta.edu/judicial/FreeExpressionAreaFEAGuidelines.shtml
Gotta love that "marketplace of ideas"...
"Free Speech zones" disturb me, I'll tell you why: Do you remember
when resteraunts and Bars instituted smoking sections about 20 years
ago? Then it was a law limiting smoking to a section, Now in most
states, you cannot smoke in a bar or resteraunt. I'm not saying
anything about smoking, but about the precedent of creating regions
for what used to be a right everywhere. It is generally a precurser to
a ban a few decades down the road.
Hatter
There's a difference between a right and a behavior *taken* to be a right by its practitioners.
Without intending any more extensive analogy, beating one's spouse was once a "right", by this
understanding.
Speech is fundamentally different from smothering people who share the same air-space, in that
it's specified in the First Amendment, which Lorilard & Co. forgot to manage for their product.
I am with you in being profoundly uncomfortable with "free speech zones" smaller than
"everywhere the U.S. Constitution is in force". How can "freedom of religion" or "freedom of
association" zones be excluded from a land where "free speech zones" are tolerated by law?
--
Apostate a.a. #1931
..sig currently undergoing maintenance
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| User: "Hatter" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Oooookay.... |
15 Jan 2008 03:25:37 PM |
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On Jan 14, 3:17=A0pm, Apostate <godless.bast...@yeehaw.org.invalid>
wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:47:51 -0800 (PST),Hatter<Hatte...@gmail.com> wrote:=
On Jan 14, 9:51=A0am, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
By the way, this university has also implemented "free speech zones" an=
d
strictly limited them to two hours per day.
http://www.valdosta.edu/judicial/FreeExpressionAreaFEAGuidelines.shtml
Gotta love that "marketplace of ideas"...
"Free Speech zones" disturb me, I'll tell you why: Do you remember
when resteraunts and Bars instituted smoking sections about 20 years
ago? Then it was a law limiting smoking to a section, Now in most
states, you cannot smoke in a bar or resteraunt. I'm not saying
anything about smoking, but about the precedent of creating regions
for what used to be a right everywhere. It is generally a precurser to
a ban a few decades down the road.
Hatter
There's a difference between a right and a behavior *taken* to be a right =
by its practitioners.
Without intending any more extensive analogy, beating one's spouse was onc=
e a "right", by this
understanding.
Speech is fundamentally different from smothering people who share the sam=
e air-space, in that
it's specified in the First Amendment, which Lorilard & Co. forgot to mana=
ge for their product.
I am with you in being profoundly uncomfortable with "free speech zones" s=
maller than
"everywhere the U.S. Constitution is in force". =A0How can "freedom of rel=
igion" or "freedom of
association" zones be excluded from a land where "free speech zones" are t=
olerated by law?
--
Similarly, and predating this by quite a bit, was the concept of
assembly permits.
It confounded me quite a bit when I was young, and still does today.
I still think the whole concept is unconstitional. Parade Permits, and
arresting those that block a right of way is constitutional but a
citation of Assembly without a permit is not.
Hatter
Hatter
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Oooookay.... |
13 Jan 2008 12:28:32 PM |
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On Jan 13, 1:17 pm, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/01/11/valdosta
"T. Hayden Barnes opposed his university's plan to build two large
parking garages with $30 million from students' mandatory fees. So last
spring, he did what any student activist would do: He posted fliers
criticizing the plan, wrote mass e-mails to students, sent letters to
administrators and wrote a letter to the editor of the campus
newspaper....Rather than ignore him or set up a meeting with concerned
students, Valdosta State University, in Georgia, informed Barnes, then a
sophomore, that he had been 'administratively withdrawn' effective May 7,
2007. In a letter apparently slipped under his dorm room door, Ronald
Zaccari, the university's president, wrote that he 'present[ed] a clear
and present danger to this campus'..."
Seig Heil, mein Parkinfuhrer!
The mind boggles.
-PF, Atl.
2015/KoBAAWA!
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Oooookay.... |
14 Jan 2008 08:39:41 AM |
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On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 10:28:32 -0800, panamfloyd wrote:
On Jan 13, 1:17 pm, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/01/11/valdosta
"T. Hayden Barnes opposed his university's plan to build two large
parking garages with $30 million from students' mandatory fees. So last
spring, he did what any student activist would do: He posted fliers
criticizing the plan, wrote mass e-mails to students, sent letters to
administrators and wrote a letter to the editor of the campus
newspaper....Rather than ignore him or set up a meeting with concerned
students, Valdosta State University, in Georgia, informed Barnes, then
a sophomore, that he had been 'administratively withdrawn' effective
May 7, 2007. In a letter apparently slipped under his dorm room door,
Ronald Zaccari, the university's president, wrote that he 'present[ed]
a clear and present danger to this campus'..."
Seig Heil, mein Parkinfuhrer!
Parkinfuhrer? <snortle>
The mind boggles.
Really. I've since seen a copy of the alleged "threatening" collage
(though not a very good copy I admit) and still can't find anything even
vaguely threatening.
Apparently, the big "threat" is he called it the "memorial" parking
garage and "memorials" are for dead people! Oh yeah, that reasoning makes
a lotta sense...
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
“To die for an idea; it is unquestionably noble.
But how much nobler it would be if men died for
ideas that were true!”
- H. L. Mencken
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| User: "Daniel Kolle" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Oooookay.... |
13 Jan 2008 07:04:40 PM |
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On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:17:06 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/01/11/valdosta
"T. Hayden Barnes opposed his universitys plan to build two large
parking garages with $30 million from students mandatory fees. So last
spring, he did what any student activist would do: He posted fliers
criticizing the plan, wrote mass e-mails to students, sent letters to
administrators and wrote a letter to the editor of the campus
newspaper....Rather than ignore him or set up a meeting with concerned
students, Valdosta State University, in Georgia, informed Barnes, then a
sophomore, that he had been 'administratively withdrawn' effective May 7,
2007. In a letter apparently slipped under his dorm room door, Ronald
Zaccari, the universitys president, wrote that he 'present[ed] a clear
and present danger to this campus'..."
Mr. Barnes needs to light a fire under Valdosta State's *****.
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