Religions > Atheism > OT: Physics question - Could a "big crunch" be "induced" from within the cosmos intended to collapse?
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Uncle Clover" |
| Date: |
05 Oct 2006 01:07:21 AM |
| Object: |
OT: Physics question - Could a "big crunch" be "induced" from within the cosmos intended to collapse? |
Debate goes on as to whether or not our cosmos will some day undergo the
opposite end of the Big Bang - i.e., the "Big Crunch". Well, assume for the
sake of this question that another commonly-discussed possibility - that of
eternal expansion and eventual heat death - is definitively the case. Here's
the question:
If at some point a technological civilization within the cosmos were to
become advanced and powerful enough to be capable of manipulating the
trajectories of entire galaxies, would they be physically capable of
deliberately reversing the expansion of the cosmos and inducing a "Big Crunch"?
If there isn't enough information to answer the question, what variables
would need to be known which aren't already? :-?
I suspect there may be some kind of checks-and-balances aspect to the
calculations necessary to determine the answer to this which - assuming the
universe was presently and conclusively headed towards eternal expansion and
eventual heat death - will make it so that such a reversal would in fact be
impossible. The notion I have when trying to explain why I suspect this is an
image of someone trying to touch their own elbow with the pointer finger of the
hand on the same arm _as_ the elbow - the finger can move towards the elbow to
an extent, but at some point, moving the finger further towards the elbow causes
the elbow to move as well, and thus the two can never actually meet.
Just curious.... :-)
--
L8r,
Uncle Clover
************************************************
The true mark of a civilized society is that its
citizens know how to hate each other peacefully.
************************************************
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| User: "Josef Balluch" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Physics question - Could a "big crunch" be "induced" from within the cosmos intended to collapse? |
05 Oct 2006 02:15:35 AM |
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In a message sent 'round the world, Uncle Clover poured fuel on the fire
with the following:
Debate goes on as to whether or not our cosmos will some day undergo the
opposite end of the Big Bang - i.e., the "Big Crunch". Well, assume for the
sake of this question that another commonly-discussed possibility - that of
eternal expansion and eventual heat death - is definitively the case.
Minor Quibble: Heat death is a myth. As long as the universe expands it
will not experience heat death.
Here's
the question:
If at some point a technological civilization within the cosmos were to
become advanced and powerful enough to be capable of manipulating the
trajectories of entire galaxies, would they be physically capable of
deliberately reversing the expansion of the cosmos and inducing a "Big Crunch"?
No. The galaxies move apart BECAUSE the universe expands, and not vice
versa. Pushing the galaxies together does not reverse the expansion of
spacetime.
....
Regards,
Josef
Reason and free inquiry are the only effective agents against error.
-- Thomas Jefferson
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Physics question - Could a "big crunch" be "induced" from within the cosmos intended to collapse? |
05 Oct 2006 04:05:24 PM |
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On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 21:07:21 -0400, in alt.atheism , Uncle Clover
<UncleClover@SpamMeNot.com> in
<38m8i2huo1et8par5989ulh1bhnc38vfcb@4ax.com> wrote:
Debate goes on as to whether or not our cosmos will some day undergo the
opposite end of the Big Bang - i.e., the "Big Crunch". Well, assume for the
sake of this question that another commonly-discussed possibility - that of
eternal expansion and eventual heat death - is definitively the case. Here's
the question:
If at some point a technological civilization within the cosmos were to
become advanced and powerful enough to be capable of manipulating the
trajectories of entire galaxies, would they be physically capable of
deliberately reversing the expansion of the cosmos and inducing a "Big Crunch"?
The notion of "capable of manipulating the trajectories of entire
galaxies" contradicts what we currently know about physics. As such we
really could not predict anything about them.
If there isn't enough information to answer the question, what variables
would need to be known which aren't already? :-?
I suspect there may be some kind of checks-and-balances aspect to the
calculations necessary to determine the answer to this which - assuming the
universe was presently and conclusively headed towards eternal expansion and
eventual heat death - will make it so that such a reversal would in fact be
impossible. The notion I have when trying to explain why I suspect this is an
image of someone trying to touch their own elbow with the pointer finger of the
hand on the same arm _as_ the elbow - the finger can move towards the elbow to
an extent, but at some point, moving the finger further towards the elbow causes
the elbow to move as well, and thus the two can never actually meet.
Just curious.... :-)
From what we currently know about physics it would not be possible for
any entity in the Universe to have a meaningful effect on the Big
Crunch.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
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| User: "Tim McGaughy" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Physics question - Could a "big crunch" be "induced" fromwithin the cosmos intended to collapse? |
07 Oct 2006 02:45:36 PM |
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Uncle Clover wrote:
Debate goes on as to whether or not our cosmos will some day undergo the
opposite end of the Big Bang - i.e., the "Big Crunch". Well, assume for the
sake of this question that another commonly-discussed possibility - that of
eternal expansion and eventual heat death - is definitively the case. Here's
the question:
If at some point a technological civilization within the cosmos were to
become advanced and powerful enough to be capable of manipulating the
trajectories of entire galaxies, would they be physically capable of
deliberately reversing the expansion of the cosmos and inducing a "Big Crunch"?
It's not a matter of trajectories. The fabric of space between the
galaxies is expanding. We are like dots on the surface of an expanding
balloon, unmoving and yet getting farther away from each other.
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