OT: Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "stoney"
Date: 26 Jul 2005 08:38:33 AM
Object: OT: Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons
http://msn-cnet.com.com/Piracy-check+mandatory+for+Windows+add-ons/2100-1016_3-5804045.html?part=msn-cnet&tag=feed_2501&subj=ns_5804045
http://makeashorterlink.com/?K5462408B
Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons
Last modified: July 25, 2005, 9:00 PM PDT
By Ina Fried
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
From now on, customers looking to get the latest add-ons to Windows
will have to verify that their copy of the operating system is legit.
Beginning Tuesday, the piracy check will be mandatory for all
customers worldwide who want to download add-ons for Windows XP.
The only exception is for security-related patches. Regardless of
whether a system passes the test, security updates will be available
to all Windows users via either manual download or automatic update.
The Microsoft Update and Windows Update utilities, which provide
notifications of new patches, will require validation.
It's all part of Windows Genuine Advantage, a stepped-up effort by
Microsoft to increase the number of Windows users that are actually
paying Microsoft for its software. Currently, the company estimates
that roughly a third of Windows copies worldwide are not legitimate.
"We really want to cut that rate," said David Lazar, director of the
Windows Genuine program.
With Windows' share of the desktop market estimated to be well above
90 percent, cracking down on illegal copies of the OS is seen as one
of the few ways for Microsoft to grow its Windows business. The two
other main ways that Microsoft has identified are increasing the
number of PCs per household and expanding computer usage in emerging
markets.
Lazar declined to say how much Microsoft hopes to cut into the piracy
rate with the Windows Genuine push. However, he said the company does
see a need to create a clearer distinction between genuinely purchased
and bogus copies of the OS.
"One of ways we are going to do that is by enhancing the value of
genuine Windows," he said.
As part of that, Microsoft is adding a few more freebies to the
"carrots" it gives to those whose Windows copies pass muster. Lazar
said that Microsoft has also refined its online tool that checks for
genuine copies such that customers won't have to enter their Windows
product code, as was sometimes the case while the Windows Genuine
program was in testing.
Meanwhile, those who fail the validation test will be presented with
two options. People who send in their CDs, show proof they bought
Windows and fill out a piracy report will be eligible to get a
legitimate copy of Windows at no charge. Those who don't have CDs or a
proof of purchase but fill out a piracy report will have to pay for a
licensed copy--$99 for Windows XP Home and $149 for Windows XP
Professional. Those prices are higher than the upgrade cost for
Windows XP, but lower than the price one would have to pay for an
entirely new copy of the OS.
Microsoft has been testing the Windows Genuine program since last
September. At first, the program had neither benefits for those who
passed inspection nor any penalty for those who failed or opted not to
go through the piracy check. Gradually, though, Microsoft has been
adding perks and moving to make the process mandatory.
Lazar said the company has erred on the side of caution, noting that
Microsoft does not know of any cases in which its piracy check falsely
concluded that software was illegitimate. There has been a hack
reported in which customers who have one genuine copy of the OS can
pass along a validation code that can be used with nongenuine copies
of the OS. Lazar said that method would require someone to get hold of
a new code each day he or she wanted to download new software, though.
"It doesn't really scale," he said.
© 2005 Microsoft Corporation.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.

User: "Mark K. Bilbo"

Title: Re: OT: Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons 26 Jul 2005 10:24:22 AM
In episode <p1fce1pak3823f5o9bgpqei21juhv15dgt@4ax.com>, stoney burst into
the room and exclaimed:

Piracy-check mandatory for Windows

Are people still using that?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
.
User: "Olrik"

Title: Re: OT: Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons 26 Jul 2005 10:37:44 PM
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In episode <p1fce1pak3823f5o9bgpqei21juhv15dgt@4ax.com>, stoney burst into
the room and exclaimed:


Piracy-check mandatory for Windows



Are people still using that?

I gotta. I'm a Windows application programmer.
I also have a Mac when I want to do fun stuff.
--
Olrik
aa #1981
Qualified SMASH member
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
.
User: "Mark K. Bilbo"

Title: Re: OT: Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons 27 Jul 2005 05:35:01 AM
In episode <lkDFe.72546$mv2.1372966@weber.videotron.net>, Olrik burst into
the room and exclaimed:

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In episode <p1fce1pak3823f5o9bgpqei21juhv15dgt@4ax.com>, stoney burst
into the room and exclaimed:


Piracy-check mandatory for Windows



Are people still using that?


I gotta. I'm a Windows application programmer.

What did you do to get such a harsh sentence????

I also have a Mac when I want to do fun stuff.

I miss the Mac. But after Apple almost collapsed in the '90s in large part
because of their own greed and stupidity, they took my career with them
and I haven't the inclination to go back.
(But I'm not bitter!)
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
.
User: "Therion Ware"

Title: Re: OT: Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons 27 Jul 2005 06:22:59 AM
On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 05:35:01 -0500 in alt.atheism, Mark K. Bilbo
("Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster>) said, directing the
reply to alt.atheism

In episode <lkDFe.72546$mv2.1372966@weber.videotron.net>, Olrik burst into
the room and exclaimed:

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In episode <p1fce1pak3823f5o9bgpqei21juhv15dgt@4ax.com>, stoney burst
into the room and exclaimed:


Piracy-check mandatory for Windows



Are people still using that?


I gotta. I'm a Windows application programmer.


What did you do to get such a harsh sentence????

I also have a Mac when I want to do fun stuff.


I miss the Mac. But after Apple almost collapsed in the '90s in large part
because of their own greed and stupidity, they took my career with them
and I haven't the inclination to go back.

(But I'm not bitter!)

I still have my G4 cube, Quark, Photoshop, &c, and they're *still* the
de-facto standard in the print, advertising and some other industries,
but to my mind the problem for general use isn't so much the price of
the machines compared to say a Dell, but the price and availability of
software, and the price of peripherals but the availability of
software, free, paid-for, or erm, grey market...
Mind you, I am *still* running OS 9.2.
IMO a Mac may be a good choice, depending on what you do, but most
people would be better off with a wintel box.
Should I now duck and run for cover?
.
User: "Mark K. Bilbo"

Title: Re: OT: Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons 27 Jul 2005 07:18:06 AM
In episode <75ree1lmkbutcbep8qdmfulq84fo93nnls@4ax.com>, Therion Ware
burst into the room and exclaimed:


On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 05:35:01 -0500 in alt.atheism, Mark K. Bilbo
("Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster>) said, directing the reply
to
alt.atheism



In episode <lkDFe.72546$mv2.1372966@weber.videotron.net>, Olrik burst
into the room and exclaimed:

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In episode <p1fce1pak3823f5o9bgpqei21juhv15dgt@4ax.com>, stoney burst
into the room and exclaimed:


Piracy-check mandatory for Windows



Are people still using that?


I gotta. I'm a Windows application programmer.


What did you do to get such a harsh sentence????

I also have a Mac when I want to do fun stuff.


I miss the Mac. But after Apple almost collapsed in the '90s in large
part because of their own greed and stupidity, they took my career with
them and I haven't the inclination to go back.

(But I'm not bitter!)


I still have my G4 cube, Quark, Photoshop, &c, and they're *still* the
de-facto standard in the print, advertising and some other industries,
but to my mind the problem for general use isn't so much the price of
the machines compared to say a Dell, but the price and availability of
software, and the price of peripherals but the availability of software,
free, paid-for, or erm, grey market...

I wouldn't recommend a Dell to anybody I liked.
Recently, their response to pandemic complaints in their customer service
online forum was to...
Shut down the forum.
Dell is also over 50% off shore now. Nothing against the Indians but I am
tired of watching my industry being gutted to provide CEOs another yacht.
Particularly when the resulting service is *crap. I recently had to deal
with a call center obviously based somewhere in India and not only
couldn't understand half of what was said to me, didn't get a damn thing
done and gave up. The *only reason I'm still with the company in question
is their systems work well enough I almost never have to call for help and
that the problem is pretty much universal now. I'm sorry but Indians
working from scripts just isn't what I'd call "customer service."

Mind you, I am *still* running OS 9.2.

IMO a Mac may be a good choice, depending on what you do, but most
people would be better off with a wintel box.

Should I now duck and run for cover?

Nope. I no longer care. I did the "platform wars" thing (for all the good
it did) but retired.
These days, I just enjoy sitting back and watching all those people who
told me how much better Wintel is and sneered at me for using a Mac (then)
and Linux (now) as their machines are compromised, crashed, spammed, spied...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
.


User: ""

Title: Re: OT: Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons 28 Jul 2005 01:21:11 AM
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In episode <lkDFe.72546$mv2.1372966@weber.videotron.net>, Olrik burst into
the room and exclaimed:

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In episode <p1fce1pak3823f5o9bgpqei21juhv15dgt@4ax.com>, stoney burst
into the room and exclaimed:


Piracy-check mandatory for Windows



Are people still using that?


I gotta. I'm a Windows application programmer.


What did you do to get such a harsh sentence????

LOL!
It's actually fun. I'm having a ball. My current project is a
client-server thingy, and I'm writing it in C# with the new Visual
Studio. It's a blast. I'm not kidding.


I also have a Mac when I want to do fun stuff.


I miss the Mac. But after Apple almost collapsed in the '90s in large part
because of their own greed and stupidity, they took my career with them
and I haven't the inclination to go back.

Which career was that?


(But I'm not bitter!)

Of course not.
Now there's a good boy.
Please don't byte.

--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton

Olrik
.
User: "Mark K. Bilbo"

Title: Re: OT: Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons 28 Jul 2005 01:33:52 PM
In episode <1122531670.977752.170920@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
olrik666 burst into the room and exclaimed:



Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In episode <lkDFe.72546$mv2.1372966@weber.videotron.net>, Olrik burst
into the room and exclaimed:

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In episode <p1fce1pak3823f5o9bgpqei21juhv15dgt@4ax.com>, stoney burst
into the room and exclaimed:


Piracy-check mandatory for Windows



Are people still using that?


I gotta. I'm a Windows application programmer.


What did you do to get such a harsh sentence????


LOL!

It's actually fun. I'm having a ball. My current project is a
client-server thingy, and I'm writing it in C# with the new Visual Studio.
It's a blast. I'm not kidding.

Oh no, they *got to you didn't they? Did the implant hurt???

I also have a Mac when I want to do fun stuff.


I miss the Mac. But after Apple almost collapsed in the '90s in large
part because of their own greed and stupidity, they took my career with
them and I haven't the inclination to go back.


Which career was that?

Well, if you're so inclined, you can pop over to Amazon (or such) and
search on my full name. It's all out of date and out of print now though.

(But I'm not bitter!)


Of course not.

Now there's a good boy.

Please don't byte.

Hm... I'm kinda into Perl these days, mind if I chomp?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
.
User: "Olrik"

Title: Re: OT: Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons 28 Jul 2005 10:22:20 PM
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In episode <1122531670.977752.170920@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
olrik666 burst into the room and exclaimed:



Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In episode <lkDFe.72546$mv2.1372966@weber.videotron.net>, Olrik burst
into the room and exclaimed:


Mark K. Bilbo wrote:


In episode <p1fce1pak3823f5o9bgpqei21juhv15dgt@4ax.com>, stoney burst
into the room and exclaimed:



Piracy-check mandatory for Windows



Are people still using that?


I gotta. I'm a Windows application programmer.


What did you do to get such a harsh sentence????


LOL!

It's actually fun. I'm having a ball. My current project is a
client-server thingy, and I'm writing it in C# with the new Visual Studio.
It's a blast. I'm not kidding.



Oh no, they *got to you didn't they? Did the implant hurt???

No implant. Just refreshing, ice-cold Kool-Aid.

I also have a Mac when I want to do fun stuff.


I miss the Mac. But after Apple almost collapsed in the '90s in large
part because of their own greed and stupidity, they took my career with
them and I haven't the inclination to go back.


Which career was that?



Well, if you're so inclined, you can pop over to Amazon (or such) and
search on my full name. It's all out of date and out of print now though.

Nice output.

(But I'm not bitter!)


Of course not.

Now there's a good boy.

Please don't byte.



Hm... I'm kinda into Perl these days, mind if I chomp?

Go right ahead!
--
Olrik
aa #1981
Qualified SMASH member
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
.
User: "Mark K. Bilbo"

Title: Re: OT: Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons 29 Jul 2005 06:40:15 AM
In episode <NhhGe.25345$Fg6.325109@weber.videotron.net>, Olrik burst into
the room and exclaimed:

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In episode <1122531670.977752.170920@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
olrik666 burst into the room and exclaimed:



Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In episode <lkDFe.72546$mv2.1372966@weber.videotron.net>, Olrik burst
into the room and exclaimed:


Mark K. Bilbo wrote:


In episode <p1fce1pak3823f5o9bgpqei21juhv15dgt@4ax.com>, stoney burst
into the room and exclaimed:



Piracy-check mandatory for Windows



Are people still using that?


I gotta. I'm a Windows application programmer.


What did you do to get such a harsh sentence????


LOL!

It's actually fun. I'm having a ball. My current project is a
client-server thingy, and I'm writing it in C# with the new Visual
Studio. It's a blast. I'm not kidding.



Oh no, they *got to you didn't they? Did the implant hurt???


No implant. Just refreshing, ice-cold Kool-Aid.

Hm... does this "Kool-Aid" in some way explain Balmer dancing around the
stage?

I also have a Mac when I want to do fun stuff.


I miss the Mac. But after Apple almost collapsed in the '90s in large
part because of their own greed and stupidity, they took my career with
them and I haven't the inclination to go back.


Which career was that?



Well, if you're so inclined, you can pop over to Amazon (or such) and
search on my full name. It's all out of date and out of print now
though.


Nice output.

It was one of the more fun periods of my working life. Especially as my
editors didn't quite realize *how prolific I was and thought I was putting
in 60 hours a week. I wasn't. <G>
(It's also the reason I can seem to spend a lot of time on Usenet when I'm
not, I can whip out most of what I post at an almost disturbing clip.)

(But I'm not bitter!)


Of course not.

Now there's a good boy.

Please don't byte.



Hm... I'm kinda into Perl these days, mind if I chomp?


Go right ahead!

Lemme just get that dangling newline there...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
.
User: ""

Title: Re: OT: Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons 30 Jul 2005 12:03:47 AM
<snip>


Oh no, they *got to you didn't they? Did the implant hurt???


No implant. Just refreshing, ice-cold Kool-Aid.


Hm... does this "Kool-Aid" in some way explain Balmer dancing around the
stage?

Well, he's not as "kool" as Jobs but, all in all, I'd prefer to have a
drink with Balmer.


I also have a Mac when I want to do fun stuff.


I miss the Mac. But after Apple almost collapsed in the '90s in large
part because of their own greed and stupidity, they took my career with
them and I haven't the inclination to go back.


Which career was that?



Well, if you're so inclined, you can pop over to Amazon (or such) and
search on my full name. It's all out of date and out of print now
though.


Nice output.


It was one of the more fun periods of my working life. Especially as my
editors didn't quite realize *how prolific I was and thought I was putting
in 60 hours a week. I wasn't. <G>

(It's also the reason I can seem to spend a lot of time on Usenet when I'm
not, I can whip out most of what I post at an almost disturbing clip.)

It shows!
</ducks>


(But I'm not bitter!)


Of course not.

Now there's a good boy.

Please don't byte.



Hm... I'm kinda into Perl these days, mind if I chomp?


Go right ahead!


Lemme just get that dangling newline there...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton

.
User: "Mark K. Bilbo"

Title: Re: OT: Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons 30 Jul 2005 07:00:43 AM
In episode <1122699827.257181.154290@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
olrik666 burst into the room and exclaimed:


<snip>


Oh no, they *got to you didn't they? Did the implant hurt???


No implant. Just refreshing, ice-cold Kool-Aid.


Hm... does this "Kool-Aid" in some way explain Balmer dancing around the
stage?


Well, he's not as "kool" as Jobs but, all in all, I'd prefer to have a
drink with Balmer.

I don't think I'd wanna get anywhere near *either of them. They're both...
creepy.

I also have a Mac when I want to do fun stuff.


I miss the Mac. But after Apple almost collapsed in the '90s in
large part because of their own greed and stupidity, they took my
career with them and I haven't the inclination to go back.


Which career was that?



Well, if you're so inclined, you can pop over to Amazon (or such) and
search on my full name. It's all out of date and out of print now
though.


Nice output.


It was one of the more fun periods of my working life. Especially as my
editors didn't quite realize *how prolific I was and thought I was
putting in 60 hours a week. I wasn't. <G>

(It's also the reason I can seem to spend a lot of time on Usenet when
I'm not, I can whip out most of what I post at an almost disturbing
clip.)


It shows!

</ducks>

Hah! Better be glad my forearm hurts and I won't be typing much today or
I'd... I'd... syntax atcha!
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
.



User: "Mark K. Bilbo"

Title: Re: OT: Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons 29 Jul 2005 06:45:39 AM
In episode <NhhGe.25345$Fg6.325109@weber.videotron.net>, Olrik burst into
the room and exclaimed:

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In episode <1122531670.977752.170920@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
olrik666 burst into the room and exclaimed:

Which career was that?



Well, if you're so inclined, you can pop over to Amazon (or such) and
search on my full name. It's all out of date and out of print now
though.


Nice output.

(Unfortunately, though, businesses no longer value documentation *at *all.
If you ever wonder why user manuals are bad and getting worse, the answer
is the CEO wants a new yacht and is cutting "unnecessary expenses.")
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
.
User: ""

Title: Re: OT: Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons 30 Jul 2005 12:29:01 AM
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In episode <NhhGe.25345$Fg6.325109@weber.videotron.net>, Olrik burst into
the room and exclaimed:

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In episode <1122531670.977752.170920@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
olrik666 burst into the room and exclaimed:

Which career was that?



Well, if you're so inclined, you can pop over to Amazon (or such) and
search on my full name. It's all out of date and out of print now
though.


Nice output.


(Unfortunately, though, businesses no longer value documentation *at *all.
If you ever wonder why user manuals are bad and getting worse, the answer
is the CEO wants a new yacht and is cutting "unnecessary expenses.")

Well, maybe. But while there's a lot of docs on the Web, I still buy
books about the stuff I need to know. Recently, I bought a book about
CSS and one about regex. A good book will get you further that a mere
Web site, usually.
So start up Open Office and write!
(Quick aside : in the late '80s, I was freelancing for a computer
magazine. I wrote articles (once a month) about the Mac. One day, I
came in to hand over my article and, to this day, I still remember the
angry look on the editor's face. It was only the next month that I
learned the magazine folded. So I kinda know what you feel, and can
taste the bitterness...)

--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton

.
User: "Mark K. Bilbo"

Title: Re: OT: Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons 30 Jul 2005 06:49:42 AM
In episode <1122701341.515344.139880@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
olrik666 burst into the room and exclaimed:


Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In episode <NhhGe.25345$Fg6.325109@weber.videotron.net>, Olrik burst
into the room and exclaimed:

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In episode <1122531670.977752.170920@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
olrik666 burst into the room and exclaimed:

Which career was that?



Well, if you're so inclined, you can pop over to Amazon (or such) and
search on my full name. It's all out of date and out of print now
though.


Nice output.


(Unfortunately, though, businesses no longer value documentation *at
*all. If you ever wonder why user manuals are bad and getting worse, the
answer is the CEO wants a new yacht and is cutting "unnecessary
expenses.")


Well, maybe. But while there's a lot of docs on the Web, I still buy books
about the stuff I need to know. Recently, I bought a book about CSS and
one about regex. A good book will get you further that a mere Web site,
usually.

So start up Open Office and write!

(Quick aside : in the late '80s, I was freelancing for a computer
magazine. I wrote articles (once a month) about the Mac. One day, I came
in to hand over my article and, to this day, I still remember the angry
look on the editor's face. It was only the next month that I learned the
magazine folded. So I kinda know what you feel, and can taste the
bitterness...)

Actually, I've promised myself either I'll finally get the fiction off the
ground or I'll be a greeter at Wal-Mart. The so called "IT" industry can,
heh, byte me...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton
.
User: ""

Title: Re: OT: Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons 30 Jul 2005 11:26:33 PM
<snip>


So start up Open Office and write!

(Quick aside : in the late '80s, I was freelancing for a computer
magazine. I wrote articles (once a month) about the Mac. One day, I came
in to hand over my article and, to this day, I still remember the angry
look on the editor's face. It was only the next month that I learned the
magazine folded. So I kinda know what you feel, and can taste the
bitterness...)


Actually, I've promised myself either I'll finally get the fiction off the
ground or I'll be a greeter at Wal-Mart. The so called "IT" industry can,
heh, byte me...

Don't give up!
Olrik

--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
"Come to think of it, there are already a million
monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet
is NOTHING like Shakespeare!" -- Blair Houghton

.



User: "stoney"

Title: Re: OT: Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons 03 Aug 2005 03:37:41 PM
On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 06:45:39 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:

In episode <NhhGe.25345$Fg6.325109@weber.videotron.net>, Olrik burst into
the room and exclaimed:

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In episode <1122531670.977752.170920@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
olrik666 burst into the room and exclaimed:

Which career was that?



Well, if you're so inclined, you can pop over to Amazon (or such) and
search on my full name. It's all out of date and out of print now
though.


Nice output.


(Unfortunately, though, businesses no longer value documentation *at *all.
If you ever wonder why user manuals are bad and getting worse, the answer
is the CEO wants a new yacht and is cutting "unnecessary expenses.")

/cutting the CEO [chief financial drain] and restoring profitability.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.





User: "stoney"

Title: Re: OT: Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons 03 Aug 2005 03:31:38 PM
On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 05:35:01 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:

In episode <lkDFe.72546$mv2.1372966@weber.videotron.net>, Olrik burst into
the room and exclaimed:

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

In episode <p1fce1pak3823f5o9bgpqei21juhv15dgt@4ax.com>, stoney burst
into the room and exclaimed:


Piracy-check mandatory for Windows

Are people still using that?


I gotta. I'm a Windows application programmer.


What did you do to get such a harsh sentence????

I also have a Mac when I want to do fun stuff.


I miss the Mac. But after Apple almost collapsed in the '90s in large part
because of their own greed and stupidity, they took my career with them
and I haven't the inclination to go back.

(But I'm not bitter!)

At least you got better before you got changed into a Gingrich.
/Cue "The Gingrich that stole a secular nation."
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.



User: "stoney"

Title: Re: OT: Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons 03 Aug 2005 03:29:46 PM
On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 10:24:22 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:

In episode <p1fce1pak3823f5o9bgpqei21juhv15dgt@4ax.com>, stoney burst into
the room and exclaimed:

Piracy-check mandatory for Windows


Are people still using that?

I've found Linux to be very unstable. :\
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
User: "John Baker"

Title: Re: OT: Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons 03 Aug 2005 05:00:48 PM
On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 13:29:46 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 10:24:22 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:

In episode <p1fce1pak3823f5o9bgpqei21juhv15dgt@4ax.com>, stoney burst into
the room and exclaimed:

Piracy-check mandatory for Windows


Are people still using that?


I've found Linux to be very unstable. :\

Heresy! LOL
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: OT: Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons 05 Aug 2005 07:01:05 PM
On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 22:00:48 GMT, John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote:

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 13:29:46 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 10:24:22 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:

In episode <p1fce1pak3823f5o9bgpqei21juhv15dgt@4ax.com>, stoney burst into
the room and exclaimed:

Piracy-check mandatory for Windows


Are people still using that?


I've found Linux to be very unstable. :\

Heresy! LOL

That doesn't bother me one bit.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.


User: "Robi"

Title: Re: OT: Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons 03 Aug 2005 05:39:23 PM
stoney wrote:

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 10:24:22 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:

In episode <p1fce1pak3823f5o9bgpqei21juhv15dgt@4ax.com>, stoney burst into
the room and exclaimed:

Piracy-check mandatory for Windows


Are people still using that?


I've found Linux to be very unstable. :\

I use Fedora Core 4. I've found it to be far more stable than Windows
XP. I'm using it as I type. Yes, there are bugs (not that many). Yes
programs do crash (infrequently). The operating system, however, never
crashes. I mean never in eight months of using Fedora Core 3 & 4.
Linux, the programs that came with it, or that I download to use it-
Accessories, games, graphics, internet, office, sound and video. Cost
me nothing and its all legally owned.
There are some problems: it can be hard to get drivers for a few
peripherals, my scanner doesn't work for instance; I'm not a games fan
but most of the big name games aren't ported to use it.
I actually find it fun to use though, which is much more than I can say
for XP.
If your bad experience was more than a year or so ago perhaps you might
try it out again. What can there be to lose? Certainly little money.
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: OT: Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons 05 Aug 2005 07:05:33 PM
On 3 Aug 2005 15:39:23 -0700, "Robi" <robi_tola@hotmail.com> wrote:


stoney wrote:

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 10:24:22 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:

In episode <p1fce1pak3823f5o9bgpqei21juhv15dgt@4ax.com>, stoney burst into
the room and exclaimed:

Piracy-check mandatory for Windows


Are people still using that?


I've found Linux to be very unstable. :\

I use Fedora Core 4. I've found it to be far more stable than Windows
XP. I'm using it as I type. Yes, there are bugs (not that many). Yes
programs do crash (infrequently).

I've found the Linux OS crashes almost constantly. If it gets to the
desktop that's rare.

The operating system, however, never
crashes. I mean never in eight months of using Fedora Core 3 & 4.
Linux, the programs that came with it, or that I download to use it-
Accessories, games, graphics, internet, office, sound and video. Cost
me nothing and its all legally owned.
There are some problems: it can be hard to get drivers for a few
peripherals, my scanner doesn't work for instance; I'm not a games fan
but most of the big name games aren't ported to use it.
I actually find it fun to use though, which is much more than I can say
for XP.
If your bad experience was more than a year or so ago perhaps you might
try it out again. What can there be to lose? Certainly little money.

RedHat 9 and Mandrake 9.2.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.




User: "DJ Nozem"

Title: Re: OT: Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons 29 Jul 2005 08:18:43 AM
On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 06:38:33 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?K5462408B
Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons
Last modified: July 25, 2005, 9:00 PM PDT
By Ina Fried
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
From now on, customers looking to get the latest add-ons to Windows
will have to verify that their copy of the operating system is legit.
Beginning Tuesday, the piracy check will be mandatory for all
customers worldwide who want to download add-ons for Windows XP.

And it's already been cracked:
http://www.boingboing.net/2005/07/28/microsoft_genuine_ad.html
Suckers!
--
We give meaning to each other
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: OT: Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons 03 Aug 2005 03:46:57 PM
On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 15:18:43 +0200, DJ Nozem <djn@guess.com> wrote:

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 06:38:33 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?K5462408B


Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons
Last modified: July 25, 2005, 9:00 PM PDT
By Ina Fried
Staff Writer, CNET News.com


From now on, customers looking to get the latest add-ons to Windows
will have to verify that their copy of the operating system is legit.


Beginning Tuesday, the piracy check will be mandatory for all
customers worldwide who want to download add-ons for Windows XP.


And it's already been cracked:

http://www.boingboing.net/2005/07/28/microsoft_genuine_ad.html

Suckers!

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Side article;
Interesting tact this guy's taking.
http://dreampool.com/bug/prints/prints.htm
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.


User: "MarkA"

Title: Re: OT: Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons 26 Jul 2005 11:08:57 AM
On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 06:38:33 -0700, stoney wrote:

http://msn-cnet.com.com/Piracy-check+mandatory+for+Windows+add-ons/2100-1016_3-5804045.html?part=msn-cnet&tag=feed_2501&subj=ns_5804045
http://makeashorterlink.com/?K5462408B

Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons Last modified: July 25, 2005,
9:00 PM PDT By Ina Fried
Staff Writer, CNET News.com

From now on, customers looking to get the latest add-ons to Windows will
have to verify that their copy of the operating system is legit.

Beginning Tuesday, the piracy check will be mandatory for all customers
worldwide who want to download add-ons for Windows XP.

The only exception is for security-related patches. Regardless of whether
a system passes the test, security updates will be available to all
Windows users via either manual download or automatic update. The
Microsoft Update and Windows Update utilities, which provide notifications
of new patches, will require validation.

It's all part of Windows Genuine Advantage, a stepped-up effort by
Microsoft to increase the number of Windows users that are actually paying
Microsoft for its software. Currently, the company estimates that roughly
a third of Windows copies worldwide are not legitimate.

"We really want to cut that rate," said David Lazar, director of the
Windows Genuine program.

With Windows' share of the desktop market estimated to be well above 90
percent, cracking down on illegal copies of the OS is seen as one of the
few ways for Microsoft to grow its Windows business. The two other main
ways that Microsoft has identified are increasing the number of PCs per
household and expanding computer usage in emerging markets.

Lazar declined to say how much Microsoft hopes to cut into the piracy rate
with the Windows Genuine push. However, he said the company does see a
need to create a clearer distinction between genuinely purchased and bogus
copies of the OS.

"One of ways we are going to do that is by enhancing the value of genuine
Windows," he said.

As part of that, Microsoft is adding a few more freebies to the "carrots"
it gives to those whose Windows copies pass muster. Lazar said that
Microsoft has also refined its online tool that checks for genuine copies
such that customers won't have to enter their Windows product code, as was
sometimes the case while the Windows Genuine program was in testing.

Meanwhile, those who fail the validation test will be presented with two
options. People who send in their CDs, show proof they bought Windows and
fill out a piracy report will be eligible to get a legitimate copy of
Windows at no charge. Those who don't have CDs or a proof of purchase but
fill out a piracy report will have to pay for a licensed copy--$99 for
Windows XP Home and $149 for Windows XP Professional. Those prices are
higher than the upgrade cost for Windows XP, but lower than the price one
would have to pay for an entirely new copy of the OS.

Microsoft has been testing the Windows Genuine program since last
September. At first, the program had neither benefits for those who passed
inspection nor any penalty for those who failed or opted not to go through
the piracy check. Gradually, though, Microsoft has been adding perks and
moving to make the process mandatory.

Lazar said the company has erred on the side of caution, noting that
Microsoft does not know of any cases in which its piracy check falsely
concluded that software was illegitimate. There has been a hack reported
in which customers who have one genuine copy of the OS can pass along a
validation code that can be used with nongenuine copies of the OS. Lazar
said that method would require someone to get hold of a new code each day
he or she wanted to download new software, though.

"It doesn't really scale," he said.

© 2005 Microsoft Corporation.

I guess it would never occur to Gates & Co that if they cut the price of
their product, the number of people pirating it would drop dramatically.
In as much as he is one of the richest people in the world, you would
think that M$ might have a little bit of room to trim their profit margin.
I suspect that Gates and GW Bush would get along real well, as they share
a common outlook: it is far better to invest huge resources to fight your
enemy, rather than look for common ground to eliminate conflict to begin
with.
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
.
User: "Robi"

Title: Re: OT: Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons 26 Jul 2005 01:43:04 PM
Defeat Piracy. Be honest. Use Linux!.
The following is from the on-line TUX Magazine. If gives another
perspective of the piracy problem.
Over and over again, we hear from people in various software companies
telling us that piracy hurts their industry. "Boo-hoo", I hear you
say. "Piracy hurts the consumer by jacking up the price"-righto.
As far as most of us are concerned, piracy is something that doesn't
affect us; it simply means that the BMW-driving-industry-heads don't
get such a fat check at the end of the month. But, have you ever
considered the effect
that piracy has on open-source software?
At first glance, piracy might seem to be "all in the spirit" of the
open-source movement-a seemingly left-wing cause, designed to give
big companies a run for their money and a way to "stick it to the
man". Anarchists with CD burners pumping out free copies of
proprietary programs should be all in the same vein, right? Wrong.
Piracy hurts open-source projects in two big ways. First, piracy helps
to establish and cement major proprietary programs as the industry
standard. Many people take for granted that they simply can download a
CD image from a warez site or get their friends to copy the original.
This makes for easy access to major software suites with zero dollars
paid, and the software then spreads like wildfire. If everyone else is
using this particular piece of software, then so must you, or otherwise
you'll be left behind. This means that an open-source program will be
fighting more and more against a popular commercial alternative.
Second, piracy makes open-source equivalents look inferior. With
the removal of social con-science in regards to copying, no longer will
a
user make a choice based on the traditional parameters of budget,
suitability and effectiveness. Piracy removes the cost factor, leaving
the
biggest and best as the only viable choice. Let's take a look at some
real-life examples of commercial software and their open-source
equivalents.
A D O B E PHOTOSHOP
Photoshop is widely regarded as the best image editor industry-wide,
and the yardstick by which other editors are measured. All of my
graphic
designer friends use Photoshop, and none of them have paid for it.
I've given them The GIMP, and although they all liked it to a point,
none of
them viewed it as a viable alternative to Photoshop, due to it not
being as fully featured, among other issues like adjusting to another
interface, which makes it harder to use at first. However, none of them
felt the sting of shelling out hundreds of dollars for this advanced
piece of software, and therefore, none of them are able to make a
proper comparison. The GIMP developers do a lot of hard work trying to
make a free alternative
to commercial graphic editors, and all I ever hear is, "it's not as
good as Photoshop." Unpaid volunteers are competing against paid
software designers and are being unappreciated by the masses.
M I C R O S O F T OFFICE
Office needs no introduction; it is used daily by millions,
Microsoft's ubiquitous product has been around for more than a
decade. Most people I know either got it preloaded on their new PC, or
more likely, had it copied by a friend. The open-source alternative,
OpenOffice.org, is gaining more and more popularity, but its importance
is still not grasped by many who simply rely on a copy of Microsoft
Office lying around (not a legally licensed one). If every user
realized how much money they
really owed Microsoft and had to pay-up, they'd be switching in
droves! If we were looking at the world of cars, where cost factor is
still the main equation, most people would be going for the smaller,
more economical version. Only those that could afford it or genuinely
need it would buy a bigger car. In the software world, we simply can
steal the biggest and best and no one is bothered by it. Why? Because
everybody does it. Obviously, we need the return of the old social
conscience, but that's easier said than done. How to combat piracy is
outside the scope of this article,but we can at least cut down piracy
in our own community. If a friend wants an illegal copy of a commercial
program, please don't give it to them, but feel free to give them an
open-source alternative.
JOHN KNIGHT (reproduced without permission- I hope he doesn't mind!)
.

User: "Robi"

Title: Re: OT: Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons 26 Jul 2005 04:09:08 PM
I posted this once but it didn't show so I'm trying again. Apologies if
you got it twice.
This is an alternative viewpoint from the on-line TUX magazine
Over and over again, we hear from people in various software companies
telling us that piracy hurts their industry. "Boo-hoo", I hear you
say. "Piracy hurts the consumer by jacking up the price"-righto.
As far as most of us are concerned, piracy is something that doesn't
affect us; it simply means that the BMW-driving-industry-heads don't
get such a fat check at the end of the month. But, have you ever
considered the effect that piracy has on open-source software?
At first glance, piracy might seem to be "all in the spirit" of the
open-source movement-a
seemingly left-wing cause, designed to give big companies a run for
their money and a way to "stick it to the man". Anarchists with CD
burners pumping out free copies of proprietary programs should be all
in the same vein, right? Wrong. Piracy hurts open-source projects in
two big ways.
First, piracy helps to establish and cement major proprietary programs
as the industry standard. Many people take for granted that they simply
can download a CD image from a warez site or get their friends to copy
the original. This makes for easy access to major software suites with
zero dollars paid, and the software then spreads like wildfire. If
everyone else is using this particular piece of software, then so must
you, or otherwise you'll be left behind. This means that an
open-source program will be fighting more and more against a popular
commercial alternative.
Second, piracy makes open-source equivalents look inferior. With the
removal of social conscience in regards to copying, no longer will a
user make a choice based on the traditional parameters of budget,
suitability and effectiveness. Piracy removes the cost factor, leaving
the biggest and best as the only viable choice. Let's take a look at
some real-life examples of commercial software and their open-source
equivalents.
ADOBE PHOTOSHOP
Photoshop is widely regarded as the best image editor industry-wide,
and the yardstick by which other editors are measured. All of my
graphic designer friends use Photoshop, and none of them have paid for
it. I've given them The GIMP, and although they all liked it to a
point, none of them viewed it as a viable alternative to Photoshop, due
to it not being as fully featured, among other issues like adjusting to
another interface, which makes it harder to use at first.
However, none of them felt the sting of shelling out hundreds of
dollars for this advanced piece of software, and therefore, none of
them are able to make a proper comparison. The GIMP developers do a lot
of hard work trying to make a free alternative to commercial graphic
editors, and all I ever hear is, "it's not as good as Photoshop."
Unpaid volunteers
are competing against paid software designers and are being
unappreciated by the masses.
MICROSOFT OFFICE
Office needs no introduction; it is used daily by millions,
Microsoft's ubiquitous product has been around for more than a
decade. Most people I know either got it preloaded on their new PC, or
more likely, had it copied by a friend. The open-source alternative,
OpenOffice.org, is gaining more and more popularity, but its importance
is still not grasped by many who simply rely on a copy of Microsoft
Office lying around (not a legally licensed one). If every user
realized how much money they really owed Microsoft and had to pay-up,
they'd be switching in droves
If we were looking at the world of cars, where cost factor is still the
main equation, most people would be going for the smaller, more
economical version. Only those that could
afford it or genuinely need it would buy a bigger car. In the software
world, we simply can steal the biggest and best and no one is bothered
by it. Why? Because everybody does it. Obviously, we need the return of
the old social conscience, but that's easier said than done. How to
combat piracy is outside the scope of this article, but we can at least
cut down piracy in our own community. If a friend wants an illegal copy
of a commercial program, please don't give it to them, but feel free
to give them an open-source alternative.
JOHN KNIGHT. (I hope he doesn't mind me using it without permission but
I suppose that I used it within the spirit of the Open Source
community)
Don't be a criminal.... USE LINUX! :-)
.
User: "MarkA"

Title: Re: OT: Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons 26 Jul 2005 04:58:40 PM
On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:09:08 -0700, Robi wrote:

I posted this once but it didn't show so I'm trying again. Apologies if
you got it twice.
This is an alternative viewpoint from the on-line TUX magazine

<snip (but a very worthwhile read) >

Don't be a criminal.... USE LINUX! :-)

Of course, the more you use Linux, the more you realize what a lame OS
Windows is!
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
.




  Page 1 of 1

1

 


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Microsoft-NBC Takes Effort (and Two Attempts) to Install Vista; Windows Live Leadership Issues
 

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