However, it takes energy to climb out of a hole, and the more mass you
drag out, the more energy you will need. To drag a noticable fraction of
humanity off the planet will *always* take the same energy. Aproaching
10 billion humans before the human population is expected to level off,
how many would you need to move to make a difference? A billion, at
least. No fuckin' way! If we can move that many people, we can feed and
house them comfortably here on Earth

nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:

Care to back that nonsense with actual numbers?

(Oh, and don't foget to bring back the humans - alive if possible).

Don't need actual numbers, it's just common sense...

An astronaut, once trained, can be used for missions indefinitely.

The shuttles can be used over and over again, with the occasional
upgrade. The means to being the crew back is part of the cost of the
shuttle itself.
Most unmanned missions require all-new equipment for every mission, as
the equipment is rarely brought back to Earth.

If at some point, we will have too many people to fit on this earth,
we will have too many people to lift off this earth. It's a catch 22.

Depends on when we get to that point...technology advancement is a
geometric curve. Compare where we were in 1805 to 1905 to where we are
today.

Condoms work much better and are a lot cheaper to boot.

Yes, but human nature being what it is, humanity cannot be counted upon
to religiously (small 'r') use condoms.

In article <7g7ld1p29b9mutonm5kb2t7cfbfpkfkr8p@4ax.com>,
nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:

Care to back that nonsense with actual numbers?

(Oh, and don't foget to bring back the humans - alive if possible).

Don't need actual numbers, it's just common sense...
An astronaut, once trained, can be used for missions indefinitely.

Condoms work much better and are a lot cheaper to boot.

Yes, but human nature being what it is, humanity cannot be counted upon
to religiously (small 'r') use condoms.

In article <7g7ld1p29b9mutonm5kb2t7cfbfpkfkr8p@4ax.com>,
nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:

Condoms work much better and are a lot cheaper to boot.

Yes, but human nature being what it is, humanity cannot be
counted upon to religiously (small 'r') use condoms.

In article <slrnddkben.f00.eighner@goodwill.io.com>,
Lars Eighner <

You want manned space craft to do what robotic space craft can
do faster, better, cheaper, and sooner. You are the luddite.

Not always....in many cases the robots cost astronomical amounts of
money to build, which is in addition to the cost of launching it into
space....far more expensive than launching humans

And besides, due to massive population growth, extra-terrestrial living
will need to become a reality sooner that you think, requiring research
into civilian manned space flight.

In article <slrnddkben.f00.eighner@goodwill.io.com>,
Lars Eighner <eighner@io.com> wrote:

You want manned space craft to do what robotic space craft can
do faster, better, cheaper, and sooner. You are the luddite.

Not always....in many cases the robots cost astronomical amounts of
money to build, which is in addition to the cost of launching it into
space....far more expensive than launching humans

And besides, due to massive population growth, extra-terrestrial living
will need to become a reality sooner that you think, requiring research
into civilian manned space flight.

Enkidu the Atheist <Enkidu.the.Atheist@gmail.com> wrote:

It *will* happen or we will go extinct.

Who cares? You and I, and everybody we know will be worm food long
before. Do you still carry on remnants of that irrational theist
thinking?

I couldn't care less whether it's the heat death or a collision or a red dwarf
or something else completely that terminates humanity.

Douglas Berry wrote in alt.atheism

Lars Eighner <

Larry Heath broadcast on alt.atheism:

Don't you think that it might be a good idea to get at least some of our
eggs out of the one basket they now reside in?

Why? Unless you have an escape plan for the entropy death of
the university, humanity is going down the tubes eventually.
I'm really sick of people replacing their ticket to heaven with
a ticket to outer space. You haven't really advanced at all if
you stop believing in Jesus and start believing in Capt. Kirk.
There is no pie in the sky, no matter how many parsecs into the
sky you go.

LOL! Several years ago people were arguing that there weren't any
extrasolar planets. We now know of over a hundred.
Head out to the Jovians, and you have water in abundance. You could
set up a nice civilization among the larger moons of Jupiter and
Saturn.
Mars could be terraformed, as could be Venus.

I'm not so sure about Venus...

Oh, the heat death of the universe is not going to happen for a very,
very long time. The sun will swell up and die long before the final
snuffout.

If we establish bases on the Moon and Mars, and Earth happens to get
hit by some giant asteroid or comet which wipes out 95% of life on
earth, including humans, but doesn't completely destroy it, we could
hang out on the Moon and Mars for a while, while the Earth detoxifies
itself, then send down some people to repopulate it, once things are
livable again, don't you think?
I sometimes dream about something like that actually happening, just
so people like Lars can be told "I told you it was a good idea!"

If we establish bases on the Moon and Mars, and Earth happens to get
hit by some giant asteroid or comet which wipes out 95% of life on
earth, including humans, but doesn't completely destroy it, we could
hang out on the Moon and Mars for a while, while the Earth detoxifies
itself, then send down some people to repopulate it, once things are
livable again, don't you think?

Douglas Berry wrote in alt.atheism

LOL! Several years ago people were arguing that there weren't any
extrasolar planets. We now know of over a hundred.

Head out to the Jovians, and you have water in abundance. You could
set up a nice civilization among the larger moons of Jupiter and
Saturn.

Mars could be terraformed, as could be Venus.

I'm not so sure about Venus...

Oh, the heat death of the universe is not going to happen for a very,
very long time. The sun will swell up and die long before the final
snuffout.

If we establish bases on the Moon and Mars, and Earth happens to get
hit by some giant asteroid or comet which wipes out 95% of life on
earth, including humans, but doesn't completely destroy it, we could
hang out on the Moon and Mars for a while, while the Earth detoxifies
itself, then send down some people to repopulate it, once things are
livable again, don't you think?

I sometimes dream about something like that actually happening, just
so people like Lars can be told "I told you it was a good idea!"

In our last episode,
<mqu9d1ho0lkdp84cp16l7s9n4dfruuc04i@4ax.com>, the lovely and
talented Elroy Willis broadcast on alt.atheism:

Does the next generation of space shuttle still have tiles in the
designs?

On no! Don't tell me there is yet another generation of manned
spacecraft. This really chaps my butt.

Putting people in space is dangerous and expensive. It is much
cheaper and more efficient to send machines. There is no reason
to send people into space now. There may never be a good reason
to do so. If there is some unobtainium on one of the planets of
this star system, machines can find it faster and cheaper.

The reasons to believe that people will ever travel faster than
the speed of light are exactly the same as the reasons to
believe in a big sky daddy. Humanity is NEVER, *never*, not
ever, going to another star system. Don't replace one
irrational religious belief system with Star Trek. They are
really both just wishful-thinking fantasies.

the lovely and talented Elroy Willis broadcast on alt.atheism:

Does the next generation of space shuttle still have tiles in the
designs?

On no! Don't tell me there is yet another generation of manned
spacecraft. This really chaps my butt.
Putting people in space is dangerous and expensive. It is much
cheaper and more efficient to send machines. There is no reason
to send people into space now. There may never be a good reason
to do so. If there is some unobtainium on one of the planets of
this star system, machines can find it faster and cheaper.
The reasons to believe that people will ever travel faster than
the speed of light are exactly the same as the reasons to
believe in a big sky daddy. Humanity is NEVER, *never*, not
ever, going to another star system. Don't replace one
irrational religious belief system with Star Trek. They are
really both just wishful-thinking fantasies.