Religions > Atheism > OT: Sometimes, a Tax Cut for the Wealthy Can Hurt the Wealthy
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Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"maff" |
| Date: |
24 Nov 2005 07:40:57 PM |
| Object: |
OT: Sometimes, a Tax Cut for the Wealthy Can Hurt the Wealthy |
Sometimes, a Tax Cut for the Wealthy Can Hurt the Wealthy
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/24/business/24scene.html
By ROBERT H. FRANK
A careful reading of the evidence suggests that even the wealthy have
been made worse off, on balance, by recent tax cuts.
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Sometimes, a Tax Cut for the Wealthy Can Hurt the Wealthy |
27 Nov 2005 08:17:30 PM |
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Mark Isaak wrote:
Apparently you have not noticed that you have been advocating making
more people poor.
You mean because I oppose welfare for deadbeats? I advocate keeping what
I earn minus taxes for the army, the police and the courts. Other than
that I would prefer to buy what I need and not pay for what I don't get.
Now explain to me how keeping what one earns makes anyone poor.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Kate " |
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| Title: Re: OT: Sometimes, a Tax Cut for the Wealthy Can Hurt the Wealthy |
27 Nov 2005 09:03:01 PM |
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On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:17:30 -0500, "Robert J. Kolker"
<nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote:
Mark Isaak wrote:
Apparently you have not noticed that you have been advocating making
more people poor.
You mean because I oppose welfare for deadbeats? I advocate keeping what
I earn minus taxes for the army, the police and the courts. Other than
that I would prefer to buy what I need and not pay for what I don't get.
Now explain to me how keeping what one earns makes anyone poor
If you have no one to sell your stuff to - you get poor. And then we
execute you.
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Sometimes, a Tax Cut for the Wealthy Can Hurt the Wealthy |
28 Nov 2005 06:29:01 AM |
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Kate wrote:>
If you have no one to sell your stuff to - you get poor. And then we
execute you.
And if my grandmother had balls, she would be my grandfather. And I am
not advocating that we execute the poor. I am advocating that we kill
only those poor who riot and attempt to steal other people's stuff. If a
poor person is willing to starve quietly, I would be the last to
interfere with him.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Kate " |
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| Title: Re: OT: Sometimes, a Tax Cut for the Wealthy Can Hurt the Wealthy |
28 Nov 2005 08:13:02 AM |
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On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 07:29:01 -0500, "Robert J. Kolker"
<nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote:
Kate wrote:>
If you have no one to sell your stuff to - you get poor. And then we
execute you.
And if my grandmother had balls, she would be my grandfather. And I am
not advocating that we execute the poor. I am advocating that we kill
only those poor who riot and attempt to steal other people's stuff. If a
poor person is willing to starve quietly, I would be the last to
interfere with him.
People don't starve quietly. Sorry. Your way is violence and strife
and not a place I want my family living. And yes - if you sell stuff
to people to make your living, you would have to spend all your time
trying to protect it - would have no one to sell it to and become poor
- and then break the law because you wouldn't starve quietly either.
And we would have to shoot you down in the street.
You just don't like good governing do you? All to protect a few
pennies in your pocket.
As I said - you can't see the forest for that tree in front of your
face. You can tell a libertarian because they always have the pattern
of bark impressed into their forehead.
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Sometimes, a Tax Cut for the Wealthy Can Hurt the Wealthy |
28 Nov 2005 08:51:13 AM |
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Kate wrote:
People don't starve quietly. Sorry. Your way is violence and strife
and not a place I want my family living. And yes - if you sell stuff
to people to make your living, you would have to spend all your time
trying to protect it - would have no one to sell it to and become poor
- and then break the law because you wouldn't starve quietly either.
We already pay to protect our stuff. It is called the police and the
army. One of the proper functions of government is protection of
property and life. This does not require income redistribution or
welfare to either deadbeat humans and deadbeat corporations.
During the worst depression in American history the violent crime rate
was rather low and most of the violent crime was related to Prohibition,
not poverty.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Kate " |
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| Title: Re: OT: Sometimes, a Tax Cut for the Wealthy Can Hurt the Wealthy |
26 Nov 2005 03:35:15 PM |
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On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 11:40:24 GMT, NashtOn <nana@na.ca> wrote:
maff wrote:
Sometimes, a Tax Cut for the Wealthy Can Hurt the Wealthy
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/24/business/24scene.html
By ROBERT H. FRANK
A careful reading of the evidence suggests that even the wealthy have
been made worse off, on balance, by recent tax cuts.
Bloodsucking, big-government promoting liberal kooks and their simpleton
newspaper.
Take this rag and everything it contains and use it to start a fire in
your fireplace.
Liberal kooks will stop to nothing in order to suck every single penny
out of every single taxpayer, rich or poor, in order to increase the
size of government.
Incidentally, these are the same people promoting the Toe.
Nicola
Gasp - you mean they promote science?
Oh the nasty pinko commies!
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Sometimes, a Tax Cut for the Wealthy Can Hurt the Wealthy |
26 Nov 2005 04:45:49 PM |
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Kate wrote:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 11:40:24 GMT, NashtOn <nana@na.ca> wrote:
maff wrote:
Sometimes, a Tax Cut for the Wealthy Can Hurt the Wealthy
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/24/business/24scene.html
By ROBERT H. FRANK
A careful reading of the evidence suggests that even the wealthy have
been made worse off, on balance, by recent tax cuts.
Bloodsucking, big-government promoting liberal kooks and their simpleton
newspaper.
Take this rag and everything it contains and use it to start a fire in
your fireplace.
Liberal kooks will stop to nothing in order to suck every single penny
out of every single taxpayer, rich or poor, in order to increase the
size of government.
Incidentally, these are the same people promoting the Toe.
Nicola
Gasp - you mean they promote science?
Oh the nasty pinko commies!
U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 8
Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
Section 8 - Powers of Congress
http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for
limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their
respective Writings and Discoveries;
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Sometimes, a Tax Cut for the Wealthy Can Hurt the Wealthy |
26 Nov 2005 05:12:44 PM |
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maff wrote:
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for
limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their
respective Writings and Discoveries;
That is enabling legislation for patents and copy-rights. It is not a go
ahead to fund scientific research. There is nothing in that that enables
the formation of NIH or any such like thing.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Sometimes, a Tax Cut for the Wealthy Can Hurt the Wealthy |
26 Nov 2005 05:26:44 PM |
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Robert J. Kolker wrote:
maff wrote:
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for
limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their
respective Writings and Discoveries;
That is enabling legislation for patents and copy-rights. It is not a go
ahead to fund scientific research. There is nothing in that that enables
the formation of NIH or any such like thing.
Don't worry too much. There won't be any science education if Christian
fundamentalists have their way.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Sometimes, a Tax Cut for the Wealthy Can Hurt the Wealthy |
26 Nov 2005 08:13:28 PM |
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maff wrote:
Don't worry too much. There won't be any science education if Christian
fundamentalists have their way.
Science education can be provided by private parties. For example MIT is
a private corporation and does a pretty good job of turning out
scientists and engineers.
The clause in the constitution enabling patents does not authorize the
Federal (i.e. General government) to set up science training
institution. That is either for private parties or the States.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Mark Stahl" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Sometimes, a Tax Cut for the Wealthy Can Hurt the Wealthy |
27 Nov 2005 10:02:23 AM |
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"Robert J. Kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:3usj32F135jfsU2@individual.net...
maff wrote:
Don't worry too much. There won't be any science education if Christian
fundamentalists have their way.
Science education can be provided by private parties. For example MIT is
a private corporation and does a pretty good job of turning out
scientists and engineers.
Something which it does well primarily because of things like the NIH.
The clause in the constitution enabling patents does not authorize the
Federal (i.e. General government) to set up science training
institution. That is either for private parties or the States.
So what?
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Sometimes, a Tax Cut for the Wealthy Can Hurt the Wealthy |
26 Nov 2005 11:00:31 PM |
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Robert J. Kolker wrote:
maff wrote:
Don't worry too much. There won't be any science education if Christian
fundamentalists have their way.
Science education can be provided by private parties. For example MIT is
a private corporation and does a pretty good job of turning out
scientists and engineers.
The clause in the constitution enabling patents does not authorize the
Federal (i.e. General government) to set up science training
institution. That is either for private parties or the States.
Forget about the constitution. With Conservative judges in SCOTUS,
scientists will flee the US.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Sometimes, a Tax Cut for the Wealthy Can Hurt the Wealthy |
27 Nov 2005 06:04:32 AM |
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maff wrote:
Forget about the constitution. With Conservative judges in SCOTUS,
scientists will flee the US.
You may well be right. Just as we inherited the best physics from the
Germans who drove Jewish scientists and other intellectuals from Europe,
we may lose our edge in the life sciences (if we have not done so
already) by legally restricting researches in genetics and cloning.
I don't thing Federal funding is all that necessary. Consider that Craig
Ventnor decoded the human genome well before the government funded
scientists. Craig did it with his own money too! We don't need no
steeeenking Federal funding. What we DO need is not legal restrictions.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Mark Stahl" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Sometimes, a Tax Cut for the Wealthy Can Hurt the Wealthy |
27 Nov 2005 10:06:57 AM |
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"Robert J. Kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:3utlnbF12og31U1@individual.net...
maff wrote:
Forget about the constitution. With Conservative judges in SCOTUS,
scientists will flee the US.
You may well be right. Just as we inherited the best physics from the
Germans who drove Jewish scientists and other intellectuals from Europe,
we may lose our edge in the life sciences (if we have not done so
already) by legally restricting researches in genetics and cloning.
I don't thing Federal funding is all that necessary.
I don't think you're right. At all.
Consider that Craig
Ventnor
You could at least spell his name right...
decoded the human genome well before the government funded
scientists. Craig did it with his own money too!
Congratulations on identifying one basic science project carried out by the
private sector. Can you find more? The list is small, and Venter's project
very much the exception to the rule. What about longer term, riskier
scientific proposals? Where is the private money for those?
You clearly don't have much experience in getting science done.
We don't need no
steeeenking Federal funding.
Yes, we definitely do.
What we DO need is not legal restrictions.
We don't need that either.
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| User: "Larry Moran" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Sometimes, a Tax Cut for the Wealthy Can Hurt the Wealthy |
27 Nov 2005 06:06:16 AM |
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On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 07:04:32 -0500,
Robert J. Kolker <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote:
[snip]
I don't thing Federal funding is all that necessary. Consider that
Craig Ventnor decoded the human genome well before the government
funded scientists. Craig did it with his own money too! We don't
need no steeeenking Federal funding. What we DO need is not legal
restrictions.
Craig Venter's company is called Celera Genomics. He did *not*
sequence the human genome ahead of the public funded consortium
called the International Human Genome Sequencing Consortium (HGSC).
(Note the word "International." The money didn't just come from
the US government.)
As a matter of fact, there is some controversy over whether Venter
and Celera could have published their sequence without using the data
generated by HGSC. If the criticism is valid then not only did Venter
not beat the public scientists but he cheated by using their work!
Here's one of the papers on the controversy.
Waterston, R.H., Lander, E.S., and Sulston, J.E. (2002)
On the sequencing of the human genome.
Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. (USA) 99:3712-6.
Two recent papers using different approaches reported
draft sequences of the human genome. The international
Human Genome Project (HGP) used the hierarchical shotgun
approach, whereas Celera Genomics adopted the whole-genome
shotgun (WGS) approach. Here, we analyze whether the latter
paper provides a meaningful test of the WGS approach on a
mammalian genome. In the Celera paper, the authors did not
analyze their own WGS data. Instead, they decomposed the
HGP's assembled sequence into a "perfect tiling path",
combined it with their WGS data, and assembled the merged
data set. To study the implications of this approach, we
perform computational analysis and find that a perfect tiling
path with 2-fold coverage is sufficient to recover virtually
the entirety of a genome assembly. We also examine the manner
in which the assembly was anchored to the human genome and
conclude that the process primarily depended on the HGP's
sequence-tagged site maps, BAC maps, and clone-based sequences.
Our analysis indicates that the Celera paper provides neither
a meaningful test of the WGS approach nor an independent
sequence of the human genome. Our analysis does not imply
that a WGS approach could not be successfully applied to
assemble a draft sequence of a large mammalian genome, but
merely that the Celera paper does not provide such evidence.
Larry Moran
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Sometimes, a Tax Cut for the Wealthy Can Hurt the Wealthy |
27 Nov 2005 12:21:40 PM |
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Robert J. Kolker wrote:
maff wrote:
Forget about the constitution. With Conservative judges in SCOTUS,
scientists will flee the US.
You may well be right. Just as we inherited the best physics from the
Germans who drove Jewish scientists and other intellectuals from Europe,
we may lose our edge in the life sciences (if we have not done so
already) by legally restricting researches in genetics and cloning.
I don't thing Federal funding is all that necessary. Consider that Craig
Ventnor decoded the human genome well before the government funded
scientists. Craig did it with his own money too! We don't need no
steeeenking Federal funding. What we DO need is not legal restrictions.
But there will be legal restrictions. Why do you think stem cell
research is continuing abroad?
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Sometimes, a Tax Cut for the Wealthy Can Hurt the Wealthy |
27 Nov 2005 12:50:58 PM |
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maff wrote:
But there will be legal restrictions. Why do you think stem cell
research is continuing abroad?
So much the worse for us. Perhaps a "regime change" in the U.S. can put
a stop to the foolishness. We do have a bi-election coming in 2006. In
any case Shrubb is gone in 2008. Bless the 22-nd amendment.
Bob Kolker
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