| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"maff" |
| Date: |
20 Oct 2007 03:54:24 PM |
| Object: |
OT: Sorry for the Torture -- Let's Keep on Torturing |
Sorry for the Torture -- Let's Keep on Torturing
http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/10/sorry_for_the_tortu=
re_lets_kee.php
19 Oct 2007 11:03 pm
Maher Arar wasn't able to appear in person at a congressional hearing
on his case because he's still on a US government watchlist. He was,
however, available via videoconference. Bill Delahunt (D-MA)
apologized personally, doing what the Bush administration won't do on
behalf of the country. And then:
Republican Dana Rohrabacher also apologized, but said he would fight
any efforts by Democrats to end the practice of extraordinary
rendition, whereby terror suspects are grabbed by government agents
and taken to another country where local authorities may torture
confessions out of them.
"Yes, we should be ashamed" of what happened in the case, Rohrabacher
said. "That is no excuse to end a program which has protected the
lives of hundreds of thousands if not millions of American lives."
Jittery donors want Obama to step it up
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1007/6457.html
By: Ben Smith
Oct 19, 2007 06:51 PM EST
They might have a war chest in the bank and a candidate who draws rock
star crowds, but that doesn't mean Barack Obama supporters aren't
getting the jitters as primary season rapidly approaches.
After all, despite the good press and enthusiasm surrounding Obama,
Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton has stayed solidly ahead in both polls and
conventional wisdom.
Remainders: Flying monkeys
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/
Peggy Noonan says (really?) that she and other conservative women
could like Hillary, if not for the flying monkeys.
Judith Warner, going the other direction, wonders whether the income
gap hasn't created a mental gap in which the Haves worry about Monica
and the Have Nots care about issues. (Has she been talking to Mark
Penn?)
Obama's Gospel Tour
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/19/obamas-gospel-tour/
Barack Obama is bringing a gospel tour through South Carolina. A music
critic for The Times gives us his take on the lineup.
Sweet blog extra: Sweet home Obama, campaign launches gospel tour in
S=2EC.
http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2007/10/sweet_blog_extra_sweet_home_ob.html
NEAR BATAVIA, ILL.(ON RTE. 88)--There are many ways to try to jazz up
voters--and the campaign of White House hopeful Sen. Barack Obama (D-
Ill.) is launching a gospel music tour next week to whip up the
crucial African-American in South Carolina, an early primary state.
Obama: Less Black Than Hillary?
http://headingright.com/2007/10/19/obama-less-black-than-hillary/
It's the nadir of ethnic politics and at the same time a repudiation
of them, but Barack Obama somehow has managed to come across to
African-American voters as less black than Hillary Clinton. CNN's
Roland Martin delivers that analysis, which scolds Obama for his
emotional "detachment" and focus on policy rather than engagement in
exploitative histrionics that Martin apparently believes black voters
want. According to CNN's poll, Martin has it correct that something
appears to be missing from Obama's campaign:
For Obama, a convenient truth: There's no sign Gore will run
http://www.socialdailynews.com/2007/10/for-obama-a-convenient-truth-theres-=
no-sign-gore-will-run/
By admin on Oct 19, 2007 in General
Former Vice President Al Gore, in Chicago on Wednesday, gave no
indication he wants to run for the White House again as he delivered
the best stump speech I have heard in the 2008 presidential season.
Gore talked about change in its most useful context, attached to a
subject - the climate. He also, in his dismal predictions, gave reason
for hope.
Obama in Madison
http://www.progressive.org/mag_wxld101907
By Elizabeth DiNovella, October 19, 2007
What's there not to like about Obama? Even my conservative father from
Chicago wanted to hear about Obama's visit to Madison. I think my
father has a soft spot for Obama since papa's a self-made man, too.
After making the 3000+ crowd wait an hour, Obama was greeted by a
roar. "Never before have these many Packer fans cheered for a Bears
fan," he said.
Fundraising 101 at 'Obama U'
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2007/10/fundraising_101_at_=
obama_u.html
by John McCormick
Gathered in a Chicago hotel ballroom, the 100 or so students had come
from across the nation to learn from some of the top names in the
business: Solomont, Kearney, Barzun.
While not household names, they are some of the top players in the
presidential money game, where the bundling of contributions by elite
fundraisers is an essential part in financing the growing cost of
national campaigns.
Barack Obama: He is the Message!!!
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/10/19/163944/56
by bigpappa10834
Fri Oct 19, 2007 at 02:38:46 PM PDT
Uh huh...that's right...my man Barack Obama is oh so close to closing
the gap. Obama has just raised 2 MILLION DOLLARS in just 3 days. 3
DAYS!!! That's less than a work week. Who would have thought? I don't
know about any of you, but that's what I call people-powered politics.
The kind of politics that we here at DailyKos are supposed to promote.
The kind of politics that we here at DailyKos are supposed to engage
in. The kind of politics that we here at DailyKos are supposed to be
proud of. That is the kind of campaign that my man, Barack Obama, is
running. It is from the ground-up. We the people...wait...let me say
that again...we the people are in charge of his campaign, and when he
becomes President, WE THE PEOPLE are going to run this country.
Because, if history serves me right, the government is formed of the
people, by the people, and for the people.
Obama and Clinton Appealing to Different Democratic Voters
http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=3D2281
The previous post dealt with those of us who do not entirely agree
with the orthodoxy of either political party. This year Barack Obama
is receiving the support of some voters who fit this description.
Ronald Brownstein compares the views of Obama and Hillary Clinton,
finding that Clinton's views are more characteristic of the old New
Deal coalition while ironically Obama appeals more to the new
Democratic voters who Bill Clinton brought into the party:
Proposal by proposal, Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama are
constructing policy agendas that present their party with mirror-image
choices.
Commentary: Barack Obama's black wakeup call
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/18/roland.martin/index.html
By Roland S. Martin
CNN Contributor
(CNN) -- If the advisers around Sen. Barack Obama want to continue to
delude themselves into thinking they have lots of time for black
voters to get around to figuring out their candidate's record on
issues they care about, then the latest CNN poll surely must be the
kind of slap in the face to bring them back to reality.
There was a general assumption when Obama announced for the presidency
that he was going to garner a lion's share of the black vote. In a
normal presidential race, sure. But with Sen. Hillary Clinton in the
race, the reality of the affection -- real and perceived -- that black
folks have for the Clintons is clearly what has her storming out to a
strong lead over Obama.
Tech Workers Give It Up to Democrats
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2201984,00.asp
By Roy Mark
October 18, 2007
Bill Gates likes Obama but Microsoft workers favor Clinton.
Google employees are in the tank for Barack Obama. So is Bill Gates.
But the Microsoft rank and file prefer Hillary Clinton. Cisco CEO John
Chambers backs John McCain, although his employees are supporting
Clinton.
In an eWEEK analysis of individual political contributors at the
nation's largest technology and telecom firms, tech workers are
overwhelmingly betting their presidential dollars on the Democrats.
Obama Works with Ethnic Social Sites to Remove Bad Ad Potential
http://clickz.com/showPage.html?page=3D3627352
By Kate Kaye, The ClickZ Network, Oct 19, 2007
Democratic Presidential hopeful Barack Obama would probably rather not
have ads promoting "Asian Girl Photos" on his AsianAve.com profile.
That's one reason his campaign worked directly with the Asian social
network site's publisher to ensure a potential reputation damaging
situation like that doesn't occur.
Though Community Connect VP of Marketing Kay Madati thinks it's good
idea for political campaigns to create profiles on the site without
the company's consultation, he understands why they might not want
to.
Barack Obama's black wakeup call
http://essence.typepad.com/news/2007/10/barack-obamas-b.html
If the advisers around Sen. Barack Obama want to continue to delude
themselves into thinking they have lots of time for black voters to
get around to figuring out their candidates record on issues they care
about, then the latest CNN poll surely must be the kind of slap in the
face to bring them back to reality.
There was a general assumption when Obama announced for the presidency
that he was going to garner a lion's share of the black vote. In a
normal presidential election, sure. But with Sen. Hillary Clinton in
the race, the reality of the affection - real and perceived - that
black folks have for the Clintons is clearly what has her storming out
to a strong lead over Obama.
Obama offers plan to aid smaller farms, expand renewable fuels
industry
http://www.agweekly.com/articles/2007/10/17/news/ag_news/news03.txt
By MIKE GLOVER, Associated Press Writer
FAIRFAX, Iowa - Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama,
seeking votes in Iowa, on Tuesday offered a plan to aid smaller farms,
expand the renewable fuels industry and establish incentives for
organic production.
The Illinois senator called for a goal of producing 2 billion gallons
of cellulosic ethanol by 2013 while ensuring that such an expansion
doesn't increase pollution. Iowa leads the nation in ethanol
production.
Much ado about nothing?
http://incertus.blogspot.com/2007/10/much-ado-about-nothing-maybe-not.html
Maybe not. Barack Obama is getting some heat for his Gospel Tour,
named "Embrace the Change," in large part because of one of the
performers, Donnie McClurkin, is a bit of a nut.
A Bush supporter, McClurkin performed for the President at the
Republican National Convention last year. "There is a moral aspect
that was overwhelmingly a part of Bush's appeal," said McClurkin, who
also appeared in Michigan with Bush during the campaign. Shortly
after, he was quoted on the Christian Broadcasting Network's (Pat
Robertson?s organization) web site saying: "I'm not in the mood to
play with those who are trying to kill our children." So now gays are
trying to kill children. That's completely absurd and there?s no proof
to validate that statement.
Can Hillary Clinton win?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-electability_bdoct21,1,7=
278460,full.story
Opponents try to cast doubt on her electability
By Jill Zuckman | Tribune national correspondent
1:54 PM CDT, October 20, 2007
WHEAT RIDGE, Colo.-Steve Valdez, a retired high school history
teacher, is keeping an eye on the presidential campaign and wondering
about Sen. Hillary Clinton's chances.
"Is history ready?" asks Valdez, an independent voter, unsure whether
voters will embrace the controversial former first lady for president.
Hillary or Obama?
http://www.sharkle.com/video/142150/
SodaHead.com and Ross "The Intern" Mathews interviews celebrities on
their pick for the 2008 Presidential race.
Obama's Gospel Tour
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/19/obamas-gospel-tour/
By Sarah Wheaton
As religious conservatives gather in Washington this weekend for the
"Values Voters Summit," Senator Barack Obama's campaign announced its
latest effort to attract people of faith to the campaign: a gospel
concert tour.
Obama Camp Ramps Up Its War Room
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/18/obama-campaign-staffs-a-war-r=
oom/
By Jeff Zeleny
The campaign of Senator Barack Obama, it seems, is bracing for
bruising days ahead.
Obama vs. the anger mongers
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-071020chapman,1,6346777.c=
olumn
Though this is the time to voice his discontent, the contender is
content to not heat up the hustings
Steve Chapman
October 21, 2007
TIPTON, IOWA-Barack Obama has been campaigning since early this
morning, and as he addresses his last audience of the day, he
professes some strong emotions about the distance many Americans feel
from their government. "It makes me angry when folks feel they have no
one working for them," he declares to some 250 people who have
gathered on a Tuesday evening at the Cedar County Fairgrounds.
As he invariably does when outlining his discontent with the status
quo, the Illinois senator sounds firm. He sounds sincere. What he
doesn't sound is angry.
State of the States: Spats and Shifts
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1007/6451.html
By: Politico Partners
Oct 20, 2007 10:06 AM EST
This week, our state correspondents report on spats between underdogs
and front-runners in the early primary states.
In South Carolina, Sen. John McCain attacked Mitt Romney. And the
third-quarter fundraising numbers painted a new picture of who might
be gaining an advantage there-Barack Obama is spending, and it seems
as though Rudy Giuliani has a lot of friends. The McCain-Romney spat
began earlier in New Hampshire, where Romney blasted McCain for
praising the state's Democratic governor.
Federico Pe=F1a Launches Nevada Latinos for Obama with Events in Reno
http://www.kolotv.com/home/headlines/10690111.html
Posted: 9:17 AM Oct 20, 2007
Last Updated: 9:17 AM Oct 20, 2007
Federico Pe=F1a, former Clinton administration Energy and Transportation
Secretary, launched Nevada Latinos for Obama today.
Secretary Pe=F1a joined with Latino supporters and volunteers in Reno
and Las Vegas to expand the grassroots movement for Barack Obama
within the Latino community in Nevada.
Obama's Right: Politicians Must Justify their Values
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=3D40587
Rodney Smith
October 20, 2007
I read that Barack Obama started a novel idea. Instead of demagogues
just chanting mantras while the other side covers its ear and says "la
la la", debate should be moved back to open discussion. Freedom of
speech should again be allowed, including tolerance and open
listening. The nation has been successfully split by people making
issues and condemning those that don't agree with the new
protagonists. Even if Senator Obama did not say so, it's a good idea
to go back to letting people speak and promote ideas even if they are
not popular with socially dominant judges, education managers and
mainstream media.
It would be great to hear the Democrats explain why it is good to have
foreign dictators speak at our universities while American spokesmen
and students are banned. Why should radio hosts be censored while
Democrats reap money from Hollywood? It would be wonderful if the
Democrats could explain why the first right in the constitution was
cancelled for an article of faith called "privacy", so that abortion
is promoted by the government. How can they be proponents for open
ideas when their beliefs in evolution and human caused global warming
cannot be questioned?
Obama: No cowboy diplomacy with Iran
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=3D27812§ionid=3D3510203
Sat, 20 Oct 2007 04:47:26
US presidential hopeful Barack Obama has slammed George W Bush's
recent rhetoric against Iran, saying the cowboy diplomacy is no use.
"Five years after the original war after the Iraq vote we should have
all learned that cowboy diplomacy doesn't work," Obama told to a crowd
of about 2,000 people.
.
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| User: "Ye Old One" |
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| Title: Re: Re: OT: Sorry for the Torture -- Let's Keep on Torturing |
25 Oct 2007 05:42:25 PM |
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On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 02:32:01 GMT, enriched this
group when s/he wrote:
On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 09:32:37 GMT, Ye Old One <usenet@mcsuk.net> wrote:
On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 01:57:48 GMT, enriched this
group when s/he wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:43:54 GMT, Ye Old One <usenet@mcsuk.net> wrote:
Gods, and I mean ANY gods, have no place in the 21st century.
But one who wishes to do so can reasonably expect "Gods" to be here
long after you're gone, huh?
Since gods don't actually exist, that would be hard.
You acknowledged the existence of "Gods" in the 21st century in your
OP.
No.
--
Bob.
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| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Sorry for the Torture -- Let's Keep on Torturing |
23 Oct 2007 12:51:12 PM |
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On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:43:30 -0700, Michael Ejercito
<mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 22, 1:28 pm, Dubh Ghall <p...@pooks.hill.fey> wrote:
On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:01:20 -0700, Michael Ejercito
<mejer...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 22, 5:22 am, Dubh Ghall <p...@pooks.hill.fey> wrote:
On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 20:14:26 -0700, Michael Ejercito
<mejer...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Co-conspirators are every bit as guilty under the law as the people who
committed the crime.
Too bad that my example disproves this.
All that your example shows, is that you are a chicken livered, little
***** streak, who will arse lick a bully, rather than stand up to it.
And what bully is that?
Specifically, your god, but probably, any bully.
God is no bully;
Yeah it is.
He is Lord of Lords and King of Kings.
That does not make it any less an evil bully.
By definition, God does not bear guilt.
If your god is real, then so is it's guilt.
Wrong.
God is Lord of Lords and King of Kings, so He is not guilty by
reason of sovereignty.
You even quote the law of the bully, the lowest form that law can
take: "Might is right".
How does not guilty by reason of sovereignty equate to might makes
right?
Not sovereignty, *Power.
Sovereignty, is meaningless without the power enforce your order, and
once you have the power, sovereignty, is irrelevant.
But your god is even worse, it has the power(or you claim it does),
yet it hides away like a craven, afraid to face it's own creation, and
relying on the fear it generates in such as you, to get it's way.
--
The spelling like any opinion stated here
is purely my own
#162 BAAWA Knight.
Kill Filed by David Morgan, and his Mam.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Sorry for the Torture -- Let's Keep on Torturing |
23 Oct 2007 09:03:40 PM |
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On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:51:12 GMT, Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey>
wrote:
On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:43:30 -0700, Michael Ejercito
<mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 22, 1:28 pm, Dubh Ghall <p...@pooks.hill.fey> wrote:
On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:01:20 -0700, Michael Ejercito
<mejer...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 22, 5:22 am, Dubh Ghall <p...@pooks.hill.fey> wrote:
On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 20:14:26 -0700, Michael Ejercito
<mejer...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Co-conspirators are every bit as guilty under the law as the people who
committed the crime.
Too bad that my example disproves this.
All that your example shows, is that you are a chicken livered, little
***** streak, who will arse lick a bully, rather than stand up to it.
And what bully is that?
Specifically, your god, but probably, any bully.
God is no bully;
Yeah it is.
He is Lord of Lords and King of Kings.
That does not make it any less an evil bully.
So you do agree that the God of Christians does exist. That's quite a
revelation for an atheist.
.
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| User: "Free Lunch" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Sorry for the Torture -- Let's Keep on Torturing |
22 Oct 2007 11:11:01 AM |
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On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:01:20 -0700, in alt.atheism
Michael Ejercito <mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1193068880.346834.149210@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>:
On Oct 22, 5:22 am, Dubh Ghall <p...@pooks.hill.fey> wrote:
On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 20:14:26 -0700, Michael Ejercito
<mejer...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Co-conspirators are every bit as guilty under the law as the people who
committed the crime.
Too bad that my example disproves this.
All that your example shows, is that you are a chicken livered, little
***** streak, who will arse lick a bully, rather than stand up to it.
And what bully is that?
God. If you would pay attention to the fact that no evidence supports
any doctrines about gods, you might not be such a craven enabler of
religiously-inspired hatred and evil deeds.
By definition, God does not bear guilt.
If your god is real, then so is it's guilt.
Wrong.
God is Lord of Lords and King of Kings, so He is not guilty by
reason of sovereignty.
The stories still tell us that He is bloodthirsty and willing to kill
everyone. Your excuse for the God you worship shows a profound lack of
empathy toward human beings and an amoral view of the world.
You have provided us with substantial evidence that you do not follow
the teachings of Jesus.
.
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| User: "Michael Ejercito" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Sorry for the Torture -- Let's Keep on Torturing |
22 Oct 2007 12:25:21 PM |
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On Oct 22, 9:11 am, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:01:20 -0700, in alt.atheism
Michael Ejercito <mejer...@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1193068880.346834.149...@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>:>On Oct 22, 5:22 am, Dubh Ghall <p...@pooks.hill.fey> wrote:
On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 20:14:26 -0700, Michael Ejercito
<mejer...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Co-conspirators are every bit as guilty under the law as the people who
committed the crime.
Too bad that my example disproves this.
All that your example shows, is that you are a chicken livered, little
***** streak, who will arse lick a bully, rather than stand up to it.
And what bully is that?
God. If you would pay attention to the fact that no evidence supports
any doctrines about gods, you might not be such a craven enabler of
religiously-inspired hatred and evil deeds.
By definition, God does not bear guilt.
If your god is real, then so is it's guilt.
Wrong.
God is Lord of Lords and King of Kings, so He is not guilty by
reason of sovereignty.
The stories still tell us that He is bloodthirsty and willing to kill
everyone. Your excuse for the God you worship shows a profound lack of
empathy toward human beings and an amoral view of the world.
God desires obedience more than empathy.
By virtue of His station, He has the right to kill as He sees fit.
You have provided us with substantial evidence that you do not follow
the teachings of Jesus.
Jesus preached against God?
Michael
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| User: "Free Lunch" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Sorry for the Torture -- Let's Keep on Torturing |
22 Oct 2007 12:38:50 PM |
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On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:25:21 -0700, in alt.atheism
Michael Ejercito <mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1193073921.649236.33890@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>:
On Oct 22, 9:11 am, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:01:20 -0700, in alt.atheism
Michael Ejercito <mejer...@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1193068880.346834.149...@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>:>On Oct 22, 5:22 am, Dubh Ghall <p...@pooks.hill.fey> wrote:
On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 20:14:26 -0700, Michael Ejercito
<mejer...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Co-conspirators are every bit as guilty under the law as the people who
committed the crime.
Too bad that my example disproves this.
All that your example shows, is that you are a chicken livered, little
***** streak, who will arse lick a bully, rather than stand up to it.
And what bully is that?
God. If you would pay attention to the fact that no evidence supports
any doctrines about gods, you might not be such a craven enabler of
religiously-inspired hatred and evil deeds.
By definition, God does not bear guilt.
If your god is real, then so is it's guilt.
Wrong.
God is Lord of Lords and King of Kings, so He is not guilty by
reason of sovereignty.
The stories still tell us that He is bloodthirsty and willing to kill
everyone. Your excuse for the God you worship shows a profound lack of
empathy toward human beings and an amoral view of the world.
God desires obedience more than empathy.
So you say. That is not what Jesus taught.
By virtue of His station, He has the right to kill as He sees fit.
Yes, you keep repeating that. I don't agree with you and it strikes me
that anyone who thinks as you do is depraved -- morally bankrupt.
You have provided us with substantial evidence that you do not follow
the teachings of Jesus.
Jesus preached against God?
Your teachings are inconsistent with what you preach. Are you telling me
that you are God?
.
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Sorry for the Torture -- Let's Keep on Torturing |
22 Oct 2007 04:00:27 PM |
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On Oct 22, 5:01 pm, Michael Ejercito <mejer...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 22, 5:22 am, Dubh Ghall <p...@pooks.hill.fey> wrote:> On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 20:14:26 -0700, Michael Ejercito
<mejer...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Co-conspirators are every bit as guilty under the law as the people who
committed the crime.
Too bad that my example disproves this.
All that your example shows, is that you are a chicken livered, little
***** streak, who will arse lick a bully, rather than stand up to it.
And what bully is that?
By definition, God does not bear guilt.
If your god is real, then so is it's guilt.
Wrong.
God is Lord of Lords and King of Kings, so He is not guilty by
reason of sovereignty.
That's good. Then you'll be tortured and crucified and your god isn't
going to do anything.
Michael
.
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| User: "Free Lunch" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Sorry for the Torture -- Let's Keep on Torturing |
22 Oct 2007 08:01:39 AM |
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On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 20:14:26 -0700, in alt.atheism
Michael Ejercito <mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1193022866.322647.82500@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com>:
On Oct 21, 2:40 pm, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 13:22:17 -0700, in alt.atheism
Michael Ejercito <mejer...@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1192998137.714796.188...@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com>:
On Oct 20, 7:06 pm, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 18:47:44 -0700, in alt.atheism
Michael Ejercito <mejer...@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1192931264.087934.116...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>:
On Oct 20, 1:54 pm, maff <maf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Sorry for the Torture -- Let's Keep on Torturinghttp://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/10/sorry_for_the...
19 Oct 2007 11:03 pm
Maher Arar wasn't able to appear in person at a congressional hearing
on his case because he's still on a US government watchlist. He was,
however, available via videoconference. Bill Delahunt (D-MA)
apologized personally, doing what the Bush administration won't do on
behalf of the country. And then:
Republican Dana Rohrabacher also apologized, but said he would fight
any efforts by Democrats to end the practice of extraordinary
rendition, whereby terror suspects are grabbed by government agents
and taken to another country where local authorities may torture
confessions out of them.
The local authorities bear responsibility for the torture.
So do the Americans who turn the people over knowing they will be
tortured.
The Americans do not bear the GUILT though.
Co-conspirators are every bit as guilty under the law as the people who
committed the crime.
Too bad that my example disproves this.
No, it does not.
By definition, God does not bear guilt.
So you assert. "Might makes right" is a despicable moral code.
I know this because according to the Bible, God turns people over
to the lake of fire knowing that they will be tortured forever and
ever. If people bore guilt of torture for turning people over knowing
that they will be tortured, then this means God bears the guilt for
the torture in Hell - a contradiction.
There's no evidence that God, Heaven, Hell, or souls exist. Let's talk
about real things.
I am talking about real things.
Turning people over to be tortured is morally repugnant. Your excuses
don't fix that.
.
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| User: "Michael Ejercito" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Sorry for the Torture -- Let's Keep on Torturing |
22 Oct 2007 11:06:14 AM |
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On Oct 22, 6:01 am, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 20:14:26 -0700, in alt.atheism
Michael Ejercito <mejer...@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1193022866.322647.82...@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com>:
On Oct 21, 2:40 pm, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 13:22:17 -0700, in alt.atheism
Michael Ejercito <mejer...@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1192998137.714796.188...@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com>:
On Oct 20, 7:06 pm, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 18:47:44 -0700, in alt.atheism
Michael Ejercito <mejer...@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1192931264.087934.116...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>:
On Oct 20, 1:54 pm, maff <maf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Sorry for the Torture -- Let's Keep on Torturinghttp://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/10/sorry_for_the...
19 Oct 2007 11:03 pm
Maher Arar wasn't able to appear in person at a congressional hearing
on his case because he's still on a US government watchlist. He was,
however, available via videoconference. Bill Delahunt (D-MA)
apologized personally, doing what the Bush administration won't do on
behalf of the country. And then:
Republican Dana Rohrabacher also apologized, but said he would fight
any efforts by Democrats to end the practice of extraordinary
rendition, whereby terror suspects are grabbed by government agents
and taken to another country where local authorities may torture
confessions out of them.
The local authorities bear responsibility for the torture.
So do the Americans who turn the people over knowing they will be
tortured.
The Americans do not bear the GUILT though.
Co-conspirators are every bit as guilty under the law as the people who
committed the crime.
Too bad that my example disproves this.
No, it does not.
By definition, God does not bear guilt.
So you assert. "Might makes right" is a despicable moral code.
Who who will punish God?
I know this because according to the Bible, God turns people over
to the lake of fire knowing that they will be tortured forever and
ever. If people bore guilt of torture for turning people over knowing
that they will be tortured, then this means God bears the guilt for
the torture in Hell - a contradiction.
There's no evidence that God, Heaven, Hell, or souls exist. Let's talk
about real things.
I am talking about real things.
Turning people over to be tortured is morally repugnant.
Only if you order or request that the person be tortured.
Michael
.
|
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| User: "Free Lunch" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Sorry for the Torture -- Let's Keep on Torturing |
22 Oct 2007 11:19:11 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:06:14 -0700, in alt.atheism
Michael Ejercito <mejercit@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1193069174.468456.93640@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com>:
On Oct 22, 6:01 am, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 20:14:26 -0700, in alt.atheism
Michael Ejercito <mejer...@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1193022866.322647.82...@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com>:
On Oct 21, 2:40 pm, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 13:22:17 -0700, in alt.atheism
Michael Ejercito <mejer...@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1192998137.714796.188...@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com>:
On Oct 20, 7:06 pm, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 18:47:44 -0700, in alt.atheism
Michael Ejercito <mejer...@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1192931264.087934.116...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>:
On Oct 20, 1:54 pm, maff <maf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Sorry for the Torture -- Let's Keep on Torturinghttp://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/10/sorry_for_the...
19 Oct 2007 11:03 pm
Maher Arar wasn't able to appear in person at a congressional hearing
on his case because he's still on a US government watchlist. He was,
however, available via videoconference. Bill Delahunt (D-MA)
apologized personally, doing what the Bush administration won't do on
behalf of the country. And then:
Republican Dana Rohrabacher also apologized, but said he would fight
any efforts by Democrats to end the practice of extraordinary
rendition, whereby terror suspects are grabbed by government agents
and taken to another country where local authorities may torture
confessions out of them.
The local authorities bear responsibility for the torture.
So do the Americans who turn the people over knowing they will be
tortured.
The Americans do not bear the GUILT though.
Co-conspirators are every bit as guilty under the law as the people who
committed the crime.
Too bad that my example disproves this.
No, it does not.
By definition, God does not bear guilt.
So you assert. "Might makes right" is a despicable moral code.
Who who will punish God?
There is no evidence that any gods exist. They're stories, but you buy
into them and make excuses for hateful behavior.
I know this because according to the Bible, God turns people over
to the lake of fire knowing that they will be tortured forever and
ever. If people bore guilt of torture for turning people over knowing
that they will be tortured, then this means God bears the guilt for
the torture in Hell - a contradiction.
There's no evidence that God, Heaven, Hell, or souls exist. Let's talk
about real things.
I am talking about real things.
Name them, since God, Heaven, Hell and souls have never been shown to be
real things.
Turning people over to be tortured is morally repugnant.
Only if you order or request that the person be tortured.
You are wrong.
By the way, an FBI agent coerced a confession from an innocent suspect
by telling him that his family would have trouble in Egypt. Clearly both
the innocent suspect and the FBI agent knew that he was talking about
torture. Do you think the FBI agent should be prosecuted for making such
a threat, or do you excuse his behavior?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Ejercito" |
|
| Title: Re: OT: Sorry for the Torture -- Let's Keep on Torturing |
22 Oct 2007 12:28:28 PM |
|
|
On Oct 22, 9:19 am, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:06:14 -0700, in alt.atheism
Michael Ejercito <mejer...@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1193069174.468456.93...@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com>:
On Oct 22, 6:01 am, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 20:14:26 -0700, in alt.atheism
Michael Ejercito <mejer...@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1193022866.322647.82...@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com>:
On Oct 21, 2:40 pm, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 13:22:17 -0700, in alt.atheism
Michael Ejercito <mejer...@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1192998137.714796.188...@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com>:
On Oct 20, 7:06 pm, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 18:47:44 -0700, in alt.atheism
Michael Ejercito <mejer...@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1192931264.087934.116...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>:
On Oct 20, 1:54 pm, maff <maf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Sorry for the Torture -- Let's Keep on Torturinghttp://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/10/sorry_for_the...
19 Oct 2007 11:03 pm
Maher Arar wasn't able to appear in person at a congressional hearing
on his case because he's still on a US government watchlist. He was,
however, available via videoconference. Bill Delahunt (D-MA)
apologized personally, doing what the Bush administration won't do on
behalf of the country. And then:
Republican Dana Rohrabacher also apologized, but said he would fight
any efforts by Democrats to end the practice of extraordinary
rendition, whereby terror suspects are grabbed by government agents
and taken to another country where local authorities may torture
confessions out of them.
The local authorities bear responsibility for the torture.
So do the Americans who turn the people over knowing they will be
tortured.
The Americans do not bear the GUILT though.
Co-conspirators are every bit as guilty under the law as the people who
committed the crime.
Too bad that my example disproves this.
No, it does not.
By definition, God does not bear guilt.
So you assert. "Might makes right" is a despicable moral code.
Who who will punish God?
There is no evidence that any gods exist. They're stories, but you buy
into them and make excuses for hateful behavior.
I know this because according to the Bible, God turns people over
to the lake of fire knowing that they will be tortured forever and
ever. If people bore guilt of torture for turning people over knowing
that they will be tortured, then this means God bears the guilt for
the torture in Hell - a contradiction.
There's no evidence that God, Heaven, Hell, or souls exist. Let's talk
about real things.
I am talking about real things.
Name them, since God, Heaven, Hell and souls have never been shown to be
real things.
Turning people over to be tortured is morally repugnant.
Only if you order or request that the person be tortured.
You are wrong.
By the way, an FBI agent coerced a confession from an innocent suspect
by telling him that his family would have trouble in Egypt. Clearly both
the innocent suspect and the FBI agent knew that he was talking about
torture. Do you think the FBI agent should be prosecuted for making such
a threat, or do you excuse his behavior?
He should be prosecuted for coercing a confession.
If people in Egypt get tortured by the authorities there, that is
an Egyptian problem.
Michael
.
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