| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"maff" |
| Date: |
23 Nov 2005 10:04:44 PM |
| Object: |
OT: Um, About That Dirty Bomb? |
Um, About That Dirty Bomb?
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/23/opinion/23wed1.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.9611
The Jose Padilla case was supposed to be an example of why the
administration needs to suspend prisoners' rights when it comes to the
war on terror. It turned out to be the opposite.
Exit Strategy in Search of a Party
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/22/AR2005112201356.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1791.7498
By Harold Meyerson
Wednesday, November 23, 2005; Page A19
George W. Bush has precious little to be thankful for this
Thanksgiving, and nothing whatever when it comes to his adversaries.
Beset at every turn, the president and his men have been pining for
some patsies, some loudmouth liberals, some effete elitists whom they
can demonize in the best traditions of the party of Richard Nixon.
The Road to Riches
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/5ba95f4634dec9cd
and thread
The Road to Riches
http://tinyurl.com/55nzo
A Blueprint for the Future
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/59c28cd6dfe6f60f
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| User: "Cyde Weys" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Um, About That Dirty Bomb? |
24 Nov 2005 12:22:49 AM |
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maff wrote:
Um, About That Dirty Bomb?
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/23/opinion/23wed1.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.9611
The Jose Padilla case was supposed to be an example of why the
administration needs to suspend prisoners' rights when it comes to the
war on terror. It turned out to be the opposite.
Jose Padilla needs to be let off scot free for this terrible
miscarriage of justice that has been perpetrated against him. I don't
care what anyone claims about his motives or what he did or did not
attempt to do - he is an American citizen, and that he was held FOR
THREE YEARS without charge should offend anyone with any semblence of
moral sensitivity. This is much more than a mere violation of habeas
corpus - this is an affront to the United States judicial system as we
know it.
And I don't want to hear any whining about "he was a terrorist and he
plotted to attack the U.S., so he deserves this." You know what? He
probably did plot to attack the U.S., I'll admit to that. But I think
keeping our fundamental rights to not being illegally locked up for
years on end without charge is worth it, even if it means letting a
criminal go free.
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| User: "BruceW" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Um, About That Dirty Bomb? |
24 Nov 2005 03:30:20 AM |
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Cyde Weys wrote:
... I think keeping our fundamental rights to not being illegally
locked up for years on end without charge is worth it, even if it
means letting a criminal go free.
And you'd be in good company. When Jefferson pardon those prosecuted
under the Sedition Act of 1798, he wrote:
... I discharged every person under punishment or prosecution
under the Sedition Law ... in every instance, without asking
what the offenders had done, or against whom they had offended,
but whether the pains they were suffering were inflicted under
the pretended Sedition Law.
...
I considered, and now consider, that law to be a nullity, as
absolute and as palpable as if Congress had ordered us to fall
down and worship a golden image
...
The "Alien and Sedition" laws -- the Patriot Acts of their time.
Bad ideas then, bad ideas now.
-BruceW
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Um, About That Dirty Bomb? |
24 Nov 2005 09:51:54 AM |
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BruceW wrote:
Cyde Weys wrote:
... I think keeping our fundamental rights to not being illegally
locked up for years on end without charge is worth it, even if it
means letting a criminal go free.
And you'd be in good company. When Jefferson pardon those prosecuted
under the Sedition Act of 1798, he wrote:
... I discharged every person under punishment or prosecution
under the Sedition Law ... in every instance, without asking
what the offenders had done, or against whom they had offended,
but whether the pains they were suffering were inflicted under
the pretended Sedition Law.
...
I considered, and now consider, that law to be a nullity, as
absolute and as palpable as if Congress had ordered us to fall
down and worship a golden image
...
The "Alien and Sedition" laws -- the Patriot Acts of their time.
Bad ideas then, bad ideas now.
The Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/356f2fde16efaf78
-BruceW
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| User: "Mitchell Coffey" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Um, About That Dirty Bomb? |
24 Nov 2005 08:54:38 AM |
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On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 22:30:20 -0500, BruceW <LevelOneDiag@Yahoo.com>
wrote:
Cyde Weys wrote:
... I think keeping our fundamental rights to not being illegally
locked up for years on end without charge is worth it, even if it
means letting a criminal go free.
And you'd be in good company. When Jefferson pardon those prosecuted
under the Sedition Act of 1798, he wrote:
... I discharged every person under punishment or prosecution
under the Sedition Law ... in every instance, without asking
what the offenders had done, or against whom they had offended,
but whether the pains they were suffering were inflicted under
the pretended Sedition Law.
...
I considered, and now consider, that law to be a nullity, as
absolute and as palpable as if Congress had ordered us to fall
down and worship a golden image
...
The "Alien and Sedition" laws -- the Patriot Acts of their time.
Bad ideas then, bad ideas now.
Damn that Jefferson could write! Anyone else notice that?
Mitchell Coffey
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Um, About That Dirty Bomb? |
24 Nov 2005 06:14:24 PM |
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Mitchell Coffey wrote:
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 22:30:20 -0500, BruceW <LevelOneDiag@Yahoo.com>
wrote:
Cyde Weys wrote:
... I think keeping our fundamental rights to not being illegally
locked up for years on end without charge is worth it, even if it
means letting a criminal go free.
And you'd be in good company. When Jefferson pardon those prosecuted
under the Sedition Act of 1798, he wrote:
... I discharged every person under punishment or prosecution
under the Sedition Law ... in every instance, without asking
what the offenders had done, or against whom they had offended,
but whether the pains they were suffering were inflicted under
the pretended Sedition Law.
...
I considered, and now consider, that law to be a nullity, as
absolute and as palpable as if Congress had ordered us to fall
down and worship a golden image
...
The "Alien and Sedition" laws -- the Patriot Acts of their time.
Bad ideas then, bad ideas now.
Damn that Jefferson could write! Anyone else notice that?
Mitchell Coffey
What a complex person he was. A slaveholder who wrote as he did about
freedom. A visionary in some respects, who also persecuted Alexander
Hamilton mercilessly for his vision of the U.S. (and Hamilton was
right). An atheist, probably, or perhaps a deist, who ensured religious
freedom.
Kind of makes one proud to belong to the same species, actually.
Chris
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| User: "AC" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Um, About That Dirty Bomb? |
24 Nov 2005 05:20:58 PM |
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On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 03:54:38 -0500,
Mitchell Coffey <mdotcoffeyatstarpowerdotnet@giganews.com> wrote:
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 22:30:20 -0500, BruceW <LevelOneDiag@Yahoo.com>
wrote:
Cyde Weys wrote:
... I think keeping our fundamental rights to not being illegally
locked up for years on end without charge is worth it, even if it
means letting a criminal go free.
And you'd be in good company. When Jefferson pardon those prosecuted
under the Sedition Act of 1798, he wrote:
... I discharged every person under punishment or prosecution
under the Sedition Law ... in every instance, without asking
what the offenders had done, or against whom they had offended,
but whether the pains they were suffering were inflicted under
the pretended Sedition Law.
...
I considered, and now consider, that law to be a nullity, as
absolute and as palpable as if Congress had ordered us to fall
down and worship a golden image
...
The "Alien and Sedition" laws -- the Patriot Acts of their time.
Bad ideas then, bad ideas now.
Damn that Jefferson could write! Anyone else notice that?
I have little doubt that if Jefferson were alive today, Fred Stone would be
hear calling him a weak-kneed liberal or treasonous.
--
Aaron Clausen
mightymartianca@hotmail.com
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Um, About That Dirty Bomb? |
24 Nov 2005 05:56:00 PM |
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On 24 Nov 2005 17:20:58 GMT in alt.atheism, AC (AC
<mightymartianca@hotmail.com>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 03:54:38 -0500,
Mitchell Coffey <mdotcoffeyatstarpowerdotnet@giganews.com> wrote:
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 22:30:20 -0500, BruceW <LevelOneDiag@Yahoo.com>
wrote:
Cyde Weys wrote:
... I think keeping our fundamental rights to not being illegally
locked up for years on end without charge is worth it, even if it
means letting a criminal go free.
And you'd be in good company. When Jefferson pardon those prosecuted
under the Sedition Act of 1798, he wrote:
... I discharged every person under punishment or prosecution
under the Sedition Law ... in every instance, without asking
what the offenders had done, or against whom they had offended,
but whether the pains they were suffering were inflicted under
the pretended Sedition Law.
...
I considered, and now consider, that law to be a nullity, as
absolute and as palpable as if Congress had ordered us to fall
down and worship a golden image
...
The "Alien and Sedition" laws -- the Patriot Acts of their time.
Bad ideas then, bad ideas now.
Damn that Jefferson could write! Anyone else notice that?
I have little doubt that if Jefferson were alive today, Fred Stone would be
hear calling him a weak-kneed liberal or treasonous.
Yes, very probably. Which reminds me:
Q: If Jefferson were alive today, what would he say?
A: Why is it so dark in here?
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| User: "John Wilkins" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Um, About That Dirty Bomb? |
24 Nov 2005 09:56:25 PM |
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Therion Ware wrote:
....
I have little doubt that if Jefferson were alive today, Fred Stone would be
hear calling him a weak-kneed liberal or treasonous.
Yes, very probably. Which reminds me:
Q: If Jefferson were alive today, what would he say?
A: Why is it so dark in here?
Daughter: You'd correct my grammar if I was on my deathbed.
Mother: If I *were* on my deathbed, dear.
--
John S. Wilkins, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, Biohumanities Project
University of Queensland - Blog: evolvethought.blogspot.com
Nihil tam absurdum quod non quidam Philosophi dixerit - Cicero
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| User: "Alexander" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Um, About That Dirty Bomb? |
26 Nov 2005 03:17:18 PM |
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"John Wilkins" <john@wilkins.id.au> wrote in message
news:dm5cpi$1h1i$1@bunyip2.cc.uq.edu.au...
Therion Ware wrote:
...
I have little doubt that if Jefferson were alive today, Fred Stone would
be
hear calling him a weak-kneed liberal or treasonous.
Yes, very probably. Which reminds me:
Q: If Jefferson were alive today, what would he say?
A: Why is it so dark in here?
Daughter: You'd correct my grammar if I was on my deathbed.
Mother: If I *were* on my deathbed, dear.
Teacher - I think we need to discuss your standards of spelling and
punctuation
Pupil - wots wrong wiv my spelling and stuff innit?
Teacher - Where's your grammar?
Pupil - She's at home watching telly aint she
b'dum tisch ... wa wa wa waaaaaaaaa
--
John S. Wilkins, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, Biohumanities Project
University of Queensland - Blog: evolvethought.blogspot.com
Nihil tam absurdum quod non quidam Philosophi dixerit - Cicero
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| User: "Robert Grumbine" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Um, About That Dirty Bomb? |
25 Nov 2005 06:04:01 PM |
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In article <slrndobtjq.d4s.mightymartianca@nobody.here>,
AC <mightymartianca@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 03:54:38 -0500,
Mitchell Coffey <mdotcoffeyatstarpowerdotnet@giganews.com> wrote:
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 22:30:20 -0500, BruceW <LevelOneDiag@Yahoo.com>
wrote:
Cyde Weys wrote:
... I think keeping our fundamental rights to not being illegally
locked up for years on end without charge is worth it, even if it
means letting a criminal go free.
And you'd be in good company. When Jefferson pardon those prosecuted
under the Sedition Act of 1798, he wrote:
... I discharged every person under punishment or prosecution
under the Sedition Law ... in every instance, without asking
what the offenders had done, or against whom they had offended,
but whether the pains they were suffering were inflicted under
the pretended Sedition Law.
...
I considered, and now consider, that law to be a nullity, as
absolute and as palpable as if Congress had ordered us to fall
down and worship a golden image
...
The "Alien and Sedition" laws -- the Patriot Acts of their time.
Bad ideas then, bad ideas now.
Damn that Jefferson could write! Anyone else notice that?
I have little doubt that if Jefferson were alive today, Fred Stone would be
hear calling him a weak-kneed liberal or treasonous.
He'd have been a Tory if he were alive during or prior to the revolution.
--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences
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| User: "Mitchell Coffey" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Um, About That Dirty Bomb? |
25 Nov 2005 07:45:19 AM |
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On 24 Nov 2005 17:20:58 GMT, AC <mightymartianca@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 03:54:38 -0500,
Mitchell Coffey <mdotcoffeyatstarpowerdotnet@giganews.com> wrote:
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 22:30:20 -0500, BruceW <LevelOneDiag@Yahoo.com>
wrote:
Cyde Weys wrote:
... I think keeping our fundamental rights to not being illegally
locked up for years on end without charge is worth it, even if it
means letting a criminal go free.
And you'd be in good company. When Jefferson pardon those prosecuted
under the Sedition Act of 1798, he wrote:
... I discharged every person under punishment or prosecution
under the Sedition Law ... in every instance, without asking
what the offenders had done, or against whom they had offended,
but whether the pains they were suffering were inflicted under
the pretended Sedition Law.
...
I considered, and now consider, that law to be a nullity, as
absolute and as palpable as if Congress had ordered us to fall
down and worship a golden image
...
The "Alien and Sedition" laws -- the Patriot Acts of their time.
Bad ideas then, bad ideas now.
Damn that Jefferson could write! Anyone else notice that?
I have little doubt that if Jefferson were alive today, Fred Stone would be
hear calling him a weak-kneed liberal or treasonous.
Assuming he improved his human resource practices.
Mitchell
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Um, About That Dirty Bomb? |
24 Nov 2005 03:17:48 PM |
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Cyde Weys wrote:
And I don't want to hear any whining about "he was a terrorist and he
plotted to attack the U.S., so he deserves this." You know what? He
probably did plot to attack the U.S., I'll admit to that. But I think
keeping our fundamental rights to not being illegally locked up for
years on end without charge is worth it, even if it means letting a
criminal go free.
Padilla will never see the sunshine as a free man. Even if he is
released he will have an "accident".
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "A" |
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| Title: Umm, what about the Constitution? |
24 Nov 2005 06:02:14 PM |
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Cyde Weys wrote:
maff wrote:
Um, About That Dirty Bomb?
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/23/opinion/23wed1.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.9611
The Jose Padilla case was supposed to be an example of why the
administration needs to suspend prisoners' rights when it comes to the
war on terror. It turned out to be the opposite.
Jose Padilla needs to be let off scot free for this terrible
miscarriage of justice that has been perpetrated against him. I don't
care what anyone claims about his motives or what he did or did not
attempt to do - he is an American citizen, and that he was held FOR
THREE YEARS without charge should offend anyone with any semblence of
moral sensitivity. This is much more than a mere violation of habeas
corpus - this is an affront to the United States judicial system as we
know it.
And I don't want to hear any whining about "he was a terrorist and he
plotted to attack the U.S., so he deserves this." You know what? He
probably did plot to attack the U.S., I'll admit to that. But I think
keeping our fundamental rights to not being illegally locked up for
years on end without charge is worth it, even if it means letting a
criminal go free.
Here's a newsflash for anybody who hasn't
figured it out yet: Bush & CO. have been
systematically re-writing the Constitution
since they've been in office. This is the
work of the puppet masters, ***** Cheney
being the primary manipulator. Watch for
martial law before they're out of office.
The "American Way" of life will disappear
as we know it, along with our ranking as
a superpower. The economy will wind up in
the dumper, and the oxymoron "we're from
the government and we're here to help",
will never become more glaringly apparent.
So why am I thankful this day? I have a
wife, children and grandchildren who I
love, and who love me. I love people more
than I ever had before. I can still get
it up! Life is good! Happy Thanksgiving!
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: Umm, what about the Constitution? |
24 Nov 2005 06:47:55 PM |
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TV's A wrote:
Here's a newsflash for anybody who hasn't
figured it out yet: Bush & CO. have been
systematically re-writing the Constitution
since they've been in office. This is the
work of the puppet masters, ***** Cheney
being the primary manipulator. Watch for
martial law before they're out of office.
Unless Congress grows a set of nads and impeaches the criminals.
The "American Way" of life will disappear
as we know it, along with our ranking as
a superpower. The economy will wind up in
the dumper,
You mean there's another toilet underneath the one the economy is in right
now?
and the oxymoron "we're from
the government and we're here to help",
will never become more glaringly apparent.
That has never been more apparent since the hurricane fiascoes in Louisiana.
--
aa #2133
ap #19
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| User: "A" |
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| Title: Re: Umm, what about the Constitution? |
25 Nov 2005 04:23:31 AM |
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towelie wrote:
TV's A wrote:
Here's a newsflash for anybody who hasn't
figured it out yet: Bush & CO. have been
systematically re-writing the Constitution
since they've been in office. This is the
work of the puppet masters, ***** Cheney
being the primary manipulator. Watch for
martial law before they're out of office.
Unless Congress grows a set of nads and impeaches the criminals.
Unlikely, considering the fact that they
would have to implicate themselves.
The "American Way" of life will disappear
as we know it, along with our ranking as
a superpower. The economy will wind up in
the dumper,
You mean there's another toilet underneath the one the economy is in right
now?
Trust me, it can (and will) get worse.
and the oxymoron "we're from
the government and we're here to help",
will never become more glaringly apparent.
That has never been more apparent since the hurricane fiascoes in Louisiana.
I wish I could say that this will be as
bad as it gets. If it were only so.
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