Religions > Atheism > OT: What no one else will say about John Paul II. {Criminal Organization Kingpin}
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"stoney" |
| Date: |
02 Apr 2005 05:43:05 AM |
| Object: |
OT: What no one else will say about John Paul II. {Criminal Organization Kingpin} |
http://slate.msn.com/id/2116085/
fighting words
Papal Power
What no one else will say about John Paul II.
By Christopher Hitchens
Posted Friday, April 1, 2005, at 2:51 PM PT
The papacy is not, in theory, a man-made office at all. Its holder is
chosen for life, by God himself, to hold the keys of Peter and to be
the vicar of Christ on earth. This is yet another of the self-imposed
tortures that faith inflicts upon itself. It means that you have to
believe that the pope before last, who held on to the job for a matter
of weeks before dying (or, according to some, before being murdered)
was either unchosen by God in some fit of celestial pique, or left
unprotected by heaven against his assassins. And it means that you
have to believe that the public agony and humiliation endured by the
pontiff was also part of some divine design. In the case of a
presidency, or even a monarchy, provision can be made for abdication
and succession when physical and mental deliquescence occur. But there
could obviously not have been any graceful retirement in the case of
John Paul II. The next vicar of Christ could hardly be expected to
perform his sacred duties knowing that there was a still-living vicar
of Christ, however decrepit, on the scene. Thus, and as with the
Schiavo case, every last morsel of misery has been compulsorily
extracted from the business of death. For the people who credit the
idea, apparently, heaven can wait. Odd.
I leave it to the faith-based to wrestle with all this. Or rather, I
would be happy to do so if they would stay out of my life. But there
is one detail that sticks with me. A few years ago, it seemed quite
probable that Cardinal Bernard Law of Boston would have to face trial
for his appalling collusion in the child-rape racket that his diocese
had been running. The man had knowingly reassigned dangerous and
sadistic criminals to positions where they would be able to exploit
the defenseless. He had withheld evidence and made himself an
accomplice, before and after the fact, in the one offense that people
of all faiths and of none have most united in condemning. (Since I
have more than once criticized Maureen Dowd in this space, I should
say now that I think she put it best of all. A church that has allowed
no latitude in its teachings on masturbation, premarital sex, birth
control, and divorce suddenly asks for understanding and "wiggle room"
for the most revolting crime on the books.)
Anyway, Cardinal Law isn't going to face a court, now. He has fled the
jurisdiction and lives in Rome, where a sinecure at the Vatican has
been found for him. (Actually not that much of a sinecure: As
archpriest of the Rome Basilica of St. Mary Major, he also sits on two
boards supervising priestly discipline—yes!—and the appointment of
diocesan bishops.) Even before this, he visited Rome on at least one
occasion to discuss whether or not the church should obey American
law. And it has been conclusively established that the Vatican
itself—including his holiness—was a part of the coverup and
obstruction of justice that allowed the child-rape scandal to continue
for so long.
Yet everybody continues to pretend that this is no problem. We have
all—haven't we?—outgrown the anti-Catholic paranoia that used to
manifest itself in the Know-Nothing Party. We all agree—don't we?—that
the election of John F. Kennedy in 1960 was a landmark event for
tolerance and inclusiveness and all that. Only a bigot would suggest
that the church puts its believers into a quandary of dual loyalty.
Actually, the Kennedy brothers were part of a Catholic cabal which
imposed another Catholic cabal on the luckless people of South
Vietnam. It's impossible to read the history of that calamity without
noticing the filiation between the detested Diem dynasty in Saigon and
the Kennedys, Cardinal Spellman, and various Catholic Cold-War
propagandists from Luce to Buckley. However, there's no proof that the
Vatican ordered this, and the Kennedys did repent by having Diem
murdered, so perhaps we can let that one slide.
But we cannot possibly let the case of Cardinal Law slide. And here
the remedy is in the hands of American Catholics. They have had the
guts to defy the papacy, in essence, when it comes to birth control.
If they don't want to be thought compromised, they can protest at the
sheltering of this vile man by the Holy See. But when did you last
read of a protest like that? Will any obituary in this week of piety
even allude to the situation? Of course not.
A few weeks ago, when the Supreme Court ruled against the execution of
minors and specified the need to conform to international consensus on
this, the Christian Right was outraged at the idea of foreign
governments influencing American courts. But Terri Schiavo's parents
were in court only moments afterward, instructing their lawyer to ask
a judge to consider the church's teaching on purgatory and hell, and
the state of the late Ms. Schiavo's soul. The Vatican is actually a
foreign government, recognized as such by an exchange of ambassadors.
Are we expected to be complacent when its clerical supporters try to
short-circuit the U.S. Constitution with pleas of this kind?
"How many divisions," Stalin is supposed to have inquired
contemptuously, "has the pope?" This stupid remark is invariably
quoted against him. He failed to see that the pope can indeed mobilize
legions. No obituary about John Paul II, for example, will omit to
mention that he exerted enormous force to change the politics of
Poland. Well, good for him, I would say. (He behaved much better on
that occasion than he did when welcoming Tariq Aziz, one of Saddam
Hussein's most blood-spattered henchmen, to an audience at the Vatican
and then for a private visit to Assisi.) But let nobody confuse the
undermining of a Stalinist bureaucracy in a majority Catholic nation
with the insidious attempt to thwart or bend the law in a secular
democracy. And let nobody say that this is no problem.
Christopher Hitchens is a columnist for Vanity Fair and a regular
contributor to Slate. His most recent book is Love, Poverty and War.
He is also the author of A Long Short War: The Postponed Liberation of
Iraq and of Blood, Class and Empire.
Article URL: http://slate.msn.com/id/2116085/
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: OT: What no one else will say about John Paul II. {CriminalOrganization Kingpin} |
02 Apr 2005 11:53:36 AM |
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stoney wrote:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2116085/
fighting words
Papal Power
What no one else will say about John Paul II.
By Christopher Hitchens
Oye Hitch....where's the fucking WMD's dude ?
Fucking turn-coat.
Maybe he just needs another drink...........
http://windsofchange.net/archives/005182.php
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
NFS Underground2, Americas Army And MOH-PA
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| User: "Shexmus" |
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| Title: Re: OT: What no one else will say about John Paul II. {Criminal Organization Kingpin} |
03 Apr 2005 01:49:32 PM |
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Jez <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> wrote in message news:<f7SdnVWJcbUmGtPfRVnyrQ@pipex.net>...
stoney wrote:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2116085/
fighting words
Papal Power
What no one else will say about John Paul II.
By Christopher Hitchens
Oye Hitch....where's the fucking WMD's dude ?
Fucking turn-coat.
Maybe he just needs another drink...........
http://windsofchange.net/archives/005182.php
--
Jez
The WMDs are up your ***** along with legions of fascists, you fucking
moron.
There, a man of mass destruction has been removed from power and here
you are a willing servant of genocidal fascist tyranny whinging "where
are the WMDs?"
Where are your priorities you fuckwit? What is better or what is
worse? Absence of WMDs or absence of Saddam?
You guys continue to bend over for fascist Sunni Arabs who have blood
of millions in their hands over the lsat thirty five years. They
chopped many heads off, attacked UN and Red Cross, bombed left right
and center, in a fit of madness for having lost their tyranny over the
majority of Iraq. But they have gained misguided souls like yourself.
Hitchens is the only sane mind in the international left community. He
has been a loyal friend of Kurdish and Iraqi democrats and freedom
fighters for a long time while the rest of you were trying to remove
the sanctions and no-fly zones imposed on Saddam and his genocidal
regime.
Hitchens is a man of high morals and strong principles, unlike Tariq
Ali, Noam Chomsky, Robert Fisk ond so on, who deliriously compromised
their long professed anti-fascist sentiments and went to bed with
Saddam.
Hitchens is a man of the future. He is immensely readable and his fans
are growing by the day. He is dedicated to Kurdish people's right for
self determination, which is only a matter of time to happen partly
thanks to him as he has relentlessly championed their cause. I would
not be surprised if they name a mountain after him in Kurdistan,
fittingly perhaps as there is a Kurdish saying "we have no friends but
mountains".
Meanwhile, the fascists, the so-called "resistance" continue attack
the Kurdish security and civilians, their favourite victims, as the
rest of the leftist or liberal comunity cry out in delight in the name
of "anti-imperialism". Fascist cocksuckers and bendovers like yourself
miss the time when Saddam left dead Kurds and Shia everywhere, which
was good to use for some US-bashing. Now you have taken turns clubbing
the anti-Saddam militants, of which Christopher Hitchens is an
honourable member.
So hands off Hitchens!!!
Shexmus
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
NFS Underground2, Americas Army And MOH-PA
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: OT: What no one else will say about John Paul II. {Criminal Organization Kingpin} |
04 Apr 2005 08:54:25 PM |
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On 3 Apr 2005 06:49:32 -0700, (Shexmus)
wrote:
Jez <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> wrote in message news:<f7SdnVWJcbUmGtPfRVnyrQ@pipex.net>...
stoney wrote:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2116085/
fighting words
Papal Power
What no one else will say about John Paul II.
By Christopher Hitchens
Oye Hitch....where's the fucking WMD's dude ?
Fucking turn-coat.
Maybe he just needs another drink...........
http://windsofchange.net/archives/005182.php
--
Jez
The WMDs are up your ***** along with legions of fascists, you fucking
moron.
There, a man of mass destruction has been removed from power and here
you are a willing servant of genocidal fascist tyranny whinging "where
are the WMDs?"
Shrub and the rest of the fascist fuckwits have been removed from
their stolen positions?
[]
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: OT: What no one else will say about John Paul II. {CriminalOrganization Kingpin} |
03 Apr 2005 04:07:14 PM |
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Shexmus wrote:
Jez <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> wrote in message news:<f7SdnVWJcbUmGtPfRVnyrQ@pipex.net>...
stoney wrote:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2116085/
fighting words
Papal Power
What no one else will say about John Paul II.
By Christopher Hitchens
Oye Hitch....where's the fucking WMD's dude ?
Fucking turn-coat.
Maybe he just needs another drink...........
http://windsofchange.net/archives/005182.php
--
Jez
The WMDs are up your ***** along with legions of fascists, you fucking
moron.
There were no WMD's.....you were lied to.
But you don't seem to mind that, what a twat !
I, personally, don't like being lied to, but there ya go !
There, a man of mass destruction has been removed from power and here
you are a willing servant of genocidal fascist tyranny whinging "where
are the WMDs?"
A Tyrant, who was put into power by the US, supported for 2 decades by
the US.
Where are your priorities you fuckwit? What is better or what is
worse? Absence of WMDs or absence of Saddam?
What Saddam did in his own country was supported by the US for 2 decades.
Where was your outrage then ?
Saddam was no threat to the USA or the UK.
You guys continue to bend over for fascist Sunni Arabs who have blood
of millions in their hands over the lsat thirty five years.
How about the Wahhabis that run Saudi Arabia, haven't noticed the US
wanting to invade them, for the tyranny still prevalent in Saudi Arabia.
They
chopped many heads off, attacked UN and Red Cross, bombed left right
and center, in a fit of madness for having lost their tyranny over the
majority of Iraq. But they have gained misguided souls like yourself.
Sorry, *****, I didn't support any of them.
Hitchens is the only sane mind in the international left community.
ROFLMFAO !!!
Hitchens is an alcoholic *****, although his books on Kissinger and
Mother Teresa were brilliant, in their time, why did he suddenly become
a shrill for the right-wing warmongers ?
To much alcohol, is my guess and a lack of cash coming from his more
left-wing views.
He
has been a loyal friend of Kurdish and Iraqi democrats and freedom
fighters for a long time while the rest of you were trying to remove
the sanctions and no-fly zones imposed on Saddam and his genocidal
regime.
Saddams genocidal regime was supported by the USA and the UK for 2
decades, why don't you like facts ?
The no-fly zones were also illegal under international law.
How about the 500,000 child deaths that occurred under the sanctions, to
which
Secretary of State Madeleine Albright said, with great humanity, no
doubt, 'I think this is a very hard choice, but the price--we think the
price is worth it.'
Where was your outrage then ?
Hitchens is a man of high morals and strong principles, unlike Tariq
Ali, Noam Chomsky, Robert Fisk ond so on, who deliriously compromised
their long professed anti-fascist sentiments and went to bed with
Saddam.
Your so wrong I hardly know where to start !!
Chomsky has never supported Saddam, maybe you should read some of his
books, rather than listen to right-wing morons who are incapable of
reading and understanding Chomsky.
Fisk, well still the best journalist the UK has ! And one who also never
supported Saddam.
Hitchens is a man of the future.
No, an alcoholic shrill for right-wing warmongers.
Not worth paying any attention too any longer.
He is immensely readable and his fans
are growing by the day.
*****-scared Americans who believe the administrations lies !!
Hardly an audience deserving of respect.
Regan played the 'war on terror' card too, how come so many Americans
suspend rational thought when a President speaks ?
He is dedicated to Kurdish people's right for
self determination, which is only a matter of time to happen partly
thanks to him as he has relentlessly championed their cause. I would
not be surprised if they name a mountain after him in Kurdistan,
fittingly perhaps as there is a Kurdish saying "we have no friends but
mountains".
Chomsky has been speaking of the rights of the Kurds since the 70's.
Meanwhile, the fascists, the so-called "resistance" continue attack
the Kurdish security and civilians, their favourite victims, as the
rest of the leftist or liberal comunity cry out in delight in the name
of "anti-imperialism". Fascist cocksuckers and bendovers like yourself
miss the time when Saddam left dead Kurds and Shia everywhere, which
was good to use for some US-bashing.
You seem to have a misunderstanding of the term Fascist.....
From Websters...
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=Fascist&x=15&y=10
1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as
that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the
individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government
headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social
regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.
2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or
dictatorial control
And from
http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article?tocId=9364238&query=fascism&ct=
Philosophy of government that stresses the primacy and glory of the
state, unquestioning obedience to its leader, subordination of the
individual will to the state's authority, and harsh suppression of dissent.
Note how similar it is to the current administrations' attitude and
policies ?
Or are you too dumb to notice the similarities ?
Now you have taken turns clubbing
the anti-Saddam militants, of which Christopher Hitchens is an
honourable member.
No, Hitchens is out to make as much money out of you suckers as he can,
before you realize he'll turn on you too, for a few bucks and a whiskey.
So hands off Hitchens!!!
You can shove him up your arse, for all I care, he lost any credibility
he had, with his support for the Bush administration and it's illegal
invasion.
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
NFS Underground2, Americas Army And MOH-PA
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: OT: What no one else will say about John Paul II. {Criminal Organization Kingpin} |
02 Apr 2005 06:02:21 AM |
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stoney wrote:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2116085/
<snip>
"How many divisions," Stalin is supposed to have inquired
contemptuously, "has the pope?" .
Good point. The ignorant inebriated with power never see
the danger.
"How many divisions does Osama have?"
Bob Dog
-----
Divine retribution is an idol threat.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: OT: What no one else will say about John Paul II. {Criminal Organization Kingpin} |
02 Apr 2005 01:33:29 PM |
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wrote in news:1112421741.950981.51380
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
stoney wrote:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2116085/
<snip>
"How many divisions," Stalin is supposed to have inquired
contemptuously, "has the pope?" .
Good point. The ignorant inebriated with power never see
the danger.
"How many divisions does Osama have?"
Good question!
http://www.strategypage.com//fyeo/qndguide/default.asp?target=IRAQ.HTM
IRAQ: Sunni Arab Clerics Giving Up On Al Qaeda
April 1, 2005: Another major Shia religious festival, which lasted from
29-31 March, ended without incident. The government made a major effort
to provide security for the large gatherings of Shia Arabs attending
religious ceremonies and moving around in southern Iraq. Sunni Arab
terrorists, especially al Qaeda, consider these ceremonies a major
insult to Sunni religious beliefs. The government deployed a security
effort on the same level as the one rolled out for the January
elections. Coalition troops deployed mostly as back up and quick
reaction forces. Al Qaeda tried to use suicide car bombers, but none of
them got through to large assemblies of Shia Arabs. In one incident, a
car bomb went off and killed five people, which was the most any of the
attacks were able to do.
Another reason the attacks were not successful was that, in the days
before March 29th, police arrested hundreds of Sunni Arabs and
foreigners suspected of being terrorists. Many were, and this is because
an increasing number of Sunni Arab religious leaders have changed their
minds about armed resistance to democracy, and coalition forces. This
has made it easier for Sunni Arabs to pass on information to the police.
The Sunni religious leaders have done the math and concluded that they
were backing the losing side. Some have made deals with the government,
to provide information, or pro-government sermons, in return for
favorable treatment (money, access to jobs for their followers,
reconstruction projects). But most have simply stopped preaching
violence, or cut back on the intensity of their calls for violence
against Kurds, Sunni Arabs and infidels (non-Moslems). Many Sunni Arab
clerics have also noted that most of their followers are not in favor of
terror attacks that kill Iraqis, no matter what their religion or
ethnicity. The terrorists have largely given up attacking American
troops. The level of such attacks is about half what it was a year ago.
The reason is that the attackers are much more likely to fail, and get
killed, when they attack American troops. It's much easier, and safer,
to attack Iraqi civilians, or even Iraqi police and troops. But the
Iraqi government forces are becoming more lethal as well, and Iraqi
government forces usually have American troops backing them up.
The impact of all this has been striking. The overall level of terrorist
violence has fallen by about half in the last month. Terrorist attacks
that target Iraqis has been very unpopular in Iraq, and caused even many
Sunni Arabs to turn against al Qaeda and Sunni Arab terrorist
organizations. But at the street level, most Iraqis are more concerned
with criminal gangs (who commit far more violence against Iraqis than
terrorists) and corruption (which is encountered daily, while you might
go weeks without even hearing about a terror attack in your
neighborhood.)
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
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