| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Therion Ware" |
| Date: |
23 May 2005 01:58:34 PM |
| Object: |
OT: Wormhole 'no use' for time travel - oh bollocks. |
It says here:
Wormhole 'no use' for time travel
By Paul Rincon
BBC News science reporter
For budding time travelers, the future (or should that be the past?)
is starting to look bleak.
Hypothetical tunnels called wormholes once looked like the best bet
for constructing a real time machine.
These cosmic shortcuts, which link one point in the Universe to
another, are favoured by science fiction writers as a means both of
explaining time travel and of circumventing the limitations imposed by
the speed of light.
The concept of wormholes will be familiar to anyone who has watched
the TV programmes Farscape, Stargate SG1 and Star Trek: Deep Space
Nine.
The opening sequence of the BBC's new Doctor Who series shows the
Tardis hurtling through a "vortex" that suspiciously resembles a
wormhole - although the Doctor's preferred method of travel is not
explained in detail.
But the idea of building these so-called traversable wormholes is
looking increasingly shaky, according to two new scientific analyses.
Remote connection
A common analogy used to visualise these phenomena involves marking
two holes at opposite ends of a sheet of paper, to represent distant
points in the Universe. One can then bend the paper over so that the
two remote points are positioned on top of each other.
[The wormholes] you would like to build - the predictable ones where
you can say Mr Spock will land in New York at 2pm on this day - those
look like they will fall apart
Stephen Hsu, University of Oregon
If it were possible to contort space-time in this way, a person might
step through a wormhole and emerge at a remote time or distant
location.
The person would pass through a region of the wormhole called the
throat, which flares out on either side.
According to one idea, a wormhole could be kept open by filling its
throat, or the region around it, with an ingredient called exotic
matter.
This is strange stuff indeed, and explaining it requires scientists to
look beyond the laws of classical physics to the world of quantum
mechanics.
Exotic matter is repelled, rather than attracted, by gravity and is
said to have negative energy - meaning it has even less than empty
space.
Law breaker
But according to a new study by Stephen Hsu and Roman Buniy, of the
University of Oregon, US, this method of building a traversable
wormhole may be fatally flawed. In a paper published on the arXiv
pre-print server, the authors looked at a kind of wormhole in which
the space-time "tube" shows only weak deviations from the laws of
classical physics.
These "semi-classical" wormholes are the most desirable type for time
travel because they potentially allow travellers to predict where and
when they would emerge.
Wormholes entirely governed by the laws of quantum mechanics, on the
other hand, would likely transport their payloads to an undesired time
and place.
Calculations by the Oregon researchers show a wormhole that combines
exotic matter with semi-classical space-time would be fundamentally
unstable.
This result relies in part on a previous paper in which Hsu and Buniy
argued that systems which violate a physical principle known as the
null energy condition become unstable.
"We aren't saying you can't build a wormhole. But the ones you would
like to build - the predictable ones where you can say Mr Spock will
land in New York at 2pm on this day - those look like they will fall
apart," Dr Hsu said.
Tight squeeze
A separate study by Chris Fewster, of the University of York, UK, and
Thomas Roman, of Central Connecticut State University, US, takes a
different approach to tackling the question of wormholes.
Amongst other things, their analysis deals with the proposal that
wormhole throats could be kept open using arbitrarily small amounts of
exotic matter.
Fewster and Roman calculated that, even if it were possible to build
such a wormhole, its throat would probably be too small for time
travel.
It might - in theory - be possible to carefully fine-tune the geometry
of the wormhole so that the wormhole throat became big enough for a
person to fit through, says Fewster.
But building a wormhole with a throat radius big enough to just fit a
proton would require fine-tuning to within one part in 10 to the power
of 30. A human-sized wormhole would require fine-tuning to within one
part in 10 to the power of 60.
"Frankly no engineer is going to be able to do that," said the York
researcher.
The authors are currently preparing a manuscript for publication.
Supporting view
However, there is still support for the idea of traversable wormholes
in the scientific community. One physicist told BBC News they could
see problems with Hsu's and Buniy's conclusions.
"Violations of the null energy condition are known to occur in a
number of situations. And their argument would prohibit any violation
of it," they commented.
"If that's true, then don't worry about Hawking radiation from a black
hole; the entire black hole vacuum becomes unstable."
The underlying physics was not in doubt, the researcher argued. The
real challenge was in explaining how to engineer wormholes big enough
to be of practical use.
Cambridge astrophysicist Stephen Hawking is amongst those researchers
who have pondered the question of wormholes.
In the 1980s, he argued that something fundamental in the laws of
physics would prevent wormholes being used for time travel. This idea
forms the basis of Hawking's Chronology Protection Conjecture.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/sci/tech/4564477.stm
Published: 2005/05/23 09:38:12 GMT
© BBC MMV
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| User: "Frank J Warner" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Wormhole 'no use' for time travel - oh bollocks. |
23 May 2005 05:04:13 PM |
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In article <or9491tts9n2am46rom2fo6u89l4uf5kp6@4ax.com>, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:
"Frankly no engineer is going to be able to do that," said the York
researcher.
Fear not, Therion. There was a time when engineers scoffed at putting
ten transistors on a single chip of silicon. Then they scoffed at
millions, and at making the chip smaller.
For that matter, there was a time when NPN-gates only existed in nature.
When 'they' say it can't be done, remember the immortal words of Thomas
Watson, Chairman of IBM, 1943, "I think there is a world market for
maybe five computers."
-Frank
--
fwarner1-at-franksknives-dot-com
Here's some of my work:
http://www.franksknives.com/
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| User: "Divin Marquis" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Wormhole 'no use' for time travel - oh bollocks. |
23 May 2005 06:05:48 PM |
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Le Mon, 23 May 2005 15:04:13 -0700, Frank J Warner a écrit :
When 'they' say it can't be done, remember the immortal words of Thomas
Watson, Chairman of IBM, 1943, "I think there is a world market for maybe
five computers."
I've seen this attributed (with a higher count) to the CEO of DEC circa
1960's
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| User: "Phillip Brown" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Wormhole 'no use' for time travel - oh bollocks. |
23 May 2005 07:46:31 PM |
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On Tue, 24 May 2005 01:05:48 +0200, Divin Marquis wrote:
Le Mon, 23 May 2005 15:04:13 -0700, Frank J Warner a écrit :
When 'they' say it can't be done, remember the immortal words of Thomas
Watson, Chairman of IBM, 1943, "I think there is a world market for maybe
five computers."
I've seen this attributed (with a higher count) to the CEO of DEC circa
1960's
I think you are thinking of
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/kenolsen.asp
In 1977, Ken Olsen, the founder and CEO of Digital Equipment Corporation,
said, "There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in his
home."
see also
http://rinkworks.com/said/predictions.shtml
--
phillip brown
"***** doesn't just happen. there is always an *****-hole involved"
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| User: "Frank J Warner" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Wormhole 'no use' for time travel - oh bollocks. |
24 May 2005 03:09:57 PM |
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In article <pan.2005.05.24.00.46.31.181470@netscape.net>, Phillip Brown
<phillipbrownau@netscape.net> wrote:
On Tue, 24 May 2005 01:05:48 +0200, Divin Marquis wrote:
Le Mon, 23 May 2005 15:04:13 -0700, Frank J Warner a écrit :
When 'they' say it can't be done, remember the immortal words of Thomas
Watson, Chairman of IBM, 1943, "I think there is a world market for maybe
five computers."
I've seen this attributed (with a higher count) to the CEO of DEC circa
1960's
I think you are thinking of
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/kenolsen.asp
In 1977, Ken Olsen, the founder and CEO of Digital Equipment Corporation,
said, "There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in his
home."
see also
http://rinkworks.com/said/predictions.shtml
Ah. I stand corrected.
The basic premise still applies, I hope.
-Frank
--
fwarner1-at-franksknives-dot-com
Here's some of my work:
http://www.franksknives.com/
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| User: "Uncle Buck" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Wormhole 'no use' for time travel - oh bollocks. |
23 May 2005 10:55:40 PM |
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On Tue, 24 May 2005 10:46:31 +1000, Phillip Brown
<phillipbrownau@netscape.net> wrote:
On Tue, 24 May 2005 01:05:48 +0200, Divin Marquis wrote:
Le Mon, 23 May 2005 15:04:13 -0700, Frank J Warner a écrit :
When 'they' say it can't be done, remember the immortal words of Thomas
Watson, Chairman of IBM, 1943, "I think there is a world market for maybe
five computers."
I've seen this attributed (with a higher count) to the CEO of DEC circa
1960's
I think you are thinking of
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/kenolsen.asp
In 1977, Ken Olsen, the founder and CEO of Digital Equipment Corporation,
said, "There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in his
home."
To be fair, in 1977 Ken Olsen was right.
--
L8r,
Uncle Buck
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| User: "Barry Trotter" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Wormhole 'no use' for time travel - oh bollocks. |
24 May 2005 01:48:35 AM |
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In the great debate about "OT: Wormhole 'no use' for time travel - oh
bollocks." in alt.atheism, Therion Ware <autodelete@city-of-dis.com>
catapaulted the following boulder:
Wormhole 'no use' for time travel
By Paul Rincon
BBC News science reporter
I seem to be having this tremendous difficulty with _my_ lifestyle.
David Silverman F.L.A.H.N. aa #2208
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Wormhole 'no use' for time travel - oh bollocks. |
24 May 2005 11:47:35 AM |
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On Tue, 24 May 2005 07:48:35 +0100, Barry Trotter
<trotb02@hogwash.ac.uk> drained his beer, leaned back in the
alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly proclaimed the following
In the great debate about "OT: Wormhole 'no use' for time travel - oh
bollocks." in alt.atheism, Therion Ware <autodelete@city-of-dis.com>
catapaulted the following boulder:
Wormhole 'no use' for time travel
By Paul Rincon
BBC News science reporter
I seem to be having this tremendous difficulty with _my_ lifestyle.
This means WAR!
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
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| User: "Kevin Anthoney" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Wormhole 'no use' for time travel - oh bollocks. |
24 May 2005 01:11:49 PM |
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Douglas Berry wrote:
On Tue, 24 May 2005 07:48:35 +0100, Barry Trotter
<trotb02@hogwash.ac.uk> drained his beer, leaned back in the
alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly proclaimed the following
In the great debate about "OT: Wormhole 'no use' for time travel - oh
bollocks." in alt.atheism, Therion Ware <autodelete@city-of-dis.com>
catapaulted the following boulder:
Wormhole 'no use' for time travel
By Paul Rincon
BBC News science reporter
I seem to be having this tremendous difficulty with _my_ lifestyle.
This means WAR!
I'll set my dog on you!
--
Kevin Anthoney
kanthoney[a]dsl.pipex.com
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| User: "Barry Trotter" |
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| Title: Re: Re: OT: Wormhole 'no use' for time travel - oh bollocks. |
24 May 2005 01:09:25 PM |
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In the great debate about "Re: OT: Wormhole 'no use' for time travel
- oh bollocks." in alt.atheism, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> catapaulted the following boulder:
On Tue, 24 May 2005 07:48:35 +0100, Barry Trotter
<trotb02@hogwash.ac.uk> drained his beer, leaned back in the
alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly proclaimed the following
In the great debate about "OT: Wormhole 'no use' for time travel - oh
bollocks." in alt.atheism, Therion Ware <autodelete@city-of-dis.com>
catapaulted the following boulder:
Wormhole 'no use' for time travel
By Paul Rincon
BBC News science reporter
I seem to be having this tremendous difficulty with _my_ lifestyle.
This means WAR!
Woof! <gulp>
David Silverman F.L.A.H.N. aa #2208
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