| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Cindy" |
| Date: |
13 Nov 2005 05:58:07 PM |
| Object: |
Our awesome God |
Sorry, but in my 'humaness' I have a need to say something...
Our awesome God is incapable of creating a "stupid system",..as He is
the source of all wisdom,..and love,..so I ask His forgiveness if I
momentarily cannot resist the urge to 'correct' you all.
That 'free will' He gave us does not prevent us, (you all included)
from 'acting' stupid....He has made wisdom available to us all,..but
there are none so blind as those who choose not to see.
Sin, separates us from God, and has natural consequences...that stem
from our refusal to acknowledge the Higher Power of Love that
fashioned us from dust.
Did you know that soil has all the same elements in it as 'man'?..We
truly are made of dirt and until God breathed His life into Adam he
had no spirit.
And just like in kindergarten,..all of us get 'punished' when one of
us refuses to obey...It just goes with the territory of life in this
world, that bad things happen to us all...life is not 'fair',...but
God is!
This awesome God we speak of loves you, like it or not.
As for 'evidence'?
"Faith is the substance of things hoped for,...
the evidence, of things not seen."
The more you all post your rubbish, the more your own arguments will
fall flat. Do any of you ever open up your heart to let love in?...or
do you prefer to keep proving the truth of that proverb that says ..
"Even a fool is counted wise if he keeps his mouth shut"
Some translations put it this way,.."better to keep silent and say
nothing than to open your mouth and prove yourself a fool.."
I am no exeption to that rule, and have many times had 'foot in mouth
disease",...but I challange you all to be open minded enough to dare
to open a Bible to the Book of Proverbs and chew on some of the wisdom
you'll find there.
God loves you all, so do we Christians,..so we can be patient longer
than you can argue,..only I warn you, God will ultimately win any
debate that goes for the truth of any matter....
Cindy
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| User: "Katt" |
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| Title: Re: Our awesome God |
15 Nov 2005 03:04:13 PM |
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"Cindy" <cplowt882@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:b7ven19vsnrcd0i59brg9nj8fftjrqi2oj@
God loves you all, so do we Christians,..so we can be patient longer
than you can argue,..only I warn you, God will ultimately win any
debate that goes for the truth of any matter....
Super. Meantime, why don't you shove your imaginary 'god' up your deluded
fat arse, and just ****** off* out of alt.atheism. We can all do without your
(equally imaginary) 'love' and 'patience', you sad, sad, nutjob.
Katt.
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| User: "kathryn" |
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| Title: Re: Our awesome God |
13 Nov 2005 06:07:40 PM |
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"Cindy" <cplowt882@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:b7ven19vsnrcd0i59brg9nj8fftjrqi2oj@4ax.com...
Sorry, but in my 'humaness' I have a need to say something...
Our awesome God is incapable of creating a "stupid system",..as He is
the source of all wisdom,..and love,..so I ask His forgiveness if I
momentarily cannot resist the urge to 'correct' you all.
That 'free will' He gave us does not prevent us, (you all included)
from 'acting' stupid....He has made wisdom available to us all,..but
there are none so blind as those who choose not to see.
Sin, separates us from God, and has natural consequences...that stem
from our refusal to acknowledge the Higher Power of Love that
fashioned us from dust.
Did you know that soil has all the same elements in it as 'man'?..We
truly are made of dirt and until God breathed His life into Adam he
had no spirit.
And just like in kindergarten,..all of us get 'punished' when one of
us refuses to obey...It just goes with the territory of life in this
world, that bad things happen to us all...life is not 'fair',...but
God is!
This awesome God we speak of loves you, like it or not.
As for 'evidence'?
"Faith is the substance of things hoped for,...
the evidence, of things not seen."
The more you all post your rubbish, the more your own arguments will
fall flat. Do any of you ever open up your heart to let love in?...or
do you prefer to keep proving the truth of that proverb that says ..
"Even a fool is counted wise if he keeps his mouth shut"
Some translations put it this way,.."better to keep silent and say
nothing than to open your mouth and prove yourself a fool.."
I am no exeption to that rule, and have many times had 'foot in mouth
disease",...but I challange you all to be open minded enough to dare
to open a Bible to the Book of Proverbs and chew on some of the wisdom
you'll find there.
God loves you all, so do we Christians,..so we can be patient longer
than you can argue,..only I warn you, God will ultimately win any
debate that goes for the truth of any matter....
Cindy
I'm sure your rant has a point, but I'm not entirely what it is. I'm going
to look forward to the many replies correcting you though :)
I'd just like to correct you on the god is fair comment - you really think
it's fair to punish an entire race for all eternity because 2 of them who
had no concept of right or wrong were conned by someone a hell of a lot
smarter than them? Thats fair to you?
Oh...do you also think it's fair to wipe out all life on the planet
(although there's no evidence this happened but this doesn't seem to stop
you) because some weren't behaving the way you want them too?
and really...is it fair to expect people to worship you in an specific
manner or you will punish them for all enternity when you refuse to prove
your existance?
You'll excuse me if I don't sign up for your version of fairness.
Now why don't you go and do something productive with your time instead of
annoying us? Perhaps you should go feed the homeless
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Our awesome God |
13 Nov 2005 07:28:01 PM |
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On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:07:40 +0000 (UTC), "kathryn" <nospam@here.com> wrote:
I'm sure your rant has a point, but I'm not entirely what it is. I'm going
to look forward to the many replies correcting you though :)
Not a chance of that.
I'd just like to correct you on the god is fair comment - you really think
it's fair to punish an entire race for all eternity because 2 of them who
had no concept of right or wrong were conned by someone a hell of a lot
smarter than them? Thats fair to you?
No one is punished for what they did, unless you refuse to do so.
Oh...do you also think it's fair to wipe out all life on the planet
(although there's no evidence this happened but this doesn't seem to stop
you) because some weren't behaving the way you want them too?
Every one that was "removed" is the source of all evil on the earth.
and really...is it fair to expect people to worship you in an specific
manner or you will punish them for all enternity when you refuse to prove
your existance?
Now you're really confused. All evidence demands the existence of God. There
is NO evidence for his nonexistence.
You're the one worshipping a condition that has no evidence.
You'll excuse me if I don't sign up for your version of fairness.
Now why don't you go and do something productive with your time instead of
annoying us? Perhaps you should go feed the homeless
We know atheists won't organize to do such a thing.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "nafc" |
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| Title: Re: Our awesome God |
13 Nov 2005 08:14:24 PM |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:6n4fn1hjh6qmd7dpt73ha32jehkjmgb9ck@4ax.com...
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:07:40 +0000 (UTC), "kathryn" <nospam@here.com>
wrote:
[snip]
Oh...do you also think it's fair to wipe out all life on the planet
(although there's no evidence this happened but this doesn't seem to stop
you) because some weren't behaving the way you want them too?
Every one that was "removed" is the source of all evil on the earth.
Care to explain how the babies and toddlers that drowned in the flood were
evil?
nafc
[snip]
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| User: "kathryn" |
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| Title: Re: Our awesome God |
13 Nov 2005 08:19:48 PM |
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"nafc" <nafc@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:A8Ndf.5826$Lv.2360@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:6n4fn1hjh6qmd7dpt73ha32jehkjmgb9ck@4ax.com...
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:07:40 +0000 (UTC), "kathryn" <nospam@here.com>
wrote:
[snip]
Oh...do you also think it's fair to wipe out all life on the planet
(although there's no evidence this happened but this doesn't seem to stop
you) because some weren't behaving the way you want them too?
Every one that was "removed" is the source of all evil on the earth.
Care to explain how the babies and toddlers that drowned in the flood were
evil?
nafc
[snip]
or the mountain goats......what did the mountain goats do that was so wrong
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| User: "nafc" |
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| Title: Re: Our awesome God |
13 Nov 2005 08:39:47 PM |
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"kathryn" <nospam@here.com> wrote in message
news:dl8754$2bp$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
"nafc" <nafc@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:A8Ndf.5826$Lv.2360@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:6n4fn1hjh6qmd7dpt73ha32jehkjmgb9ck@4ax.com...
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:07:40 +0000 (UTC), "kathryn" <nospam@here.com>
wrote:
[snip]
Oh...do you also think it's fair to wipe out all life on the planet
(although there's no evidence this happened but this doesn't seem to
stop
you) because some weren't behaving the way you want them too?
Every one that was "removed" is the source of all evil on the earth.
Care to explain how the babies and toddlers that drowned in the flood
were evil?
nafc
[snip]
or the mountain goats......what did the mountain goats do that was so
wrong
Nobody told you about the mountain goats? Actually, since duke's assertion
is that everyone that drowned was evil, I want to see him explain about the
very young.
nafc
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| User: "Enkidu the Atheist" |
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| Title: Re: Our awesome God |
13 Nov 2005 08:47:27 PM |
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"nafc" <nafc@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:nwNdf.5827$Lv.3692@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net:
"kathryn" <nospam@here.com> wrote in message
news:dl8754$2bp$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
"nafc" <nafc@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:A8Ndf.5826$Lv.2360@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:6n4fn1hjh6qmd7dpt73ha32jehkjmgb9ck@4ax.com...
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:07:40 +0000 (UTC), "kathryn"
<nospam@here.com> wrote:
[snip]
Oh...do you also think it's fair to wipe out all life on the planet
(although there's no evidence this happened but this doesn't seem
to stop
you) because some weren't behaving the way you want them too?
Every one that was "removed" is the source of all evil on the
earth.
Care to explain how the babies and toddlers that drowned in the
flood were evil?
nafc
[snip]
or the mountain goats......what did the mountain goats do that was so
wrong
Nobody told you about the mountain goats? Actually, since duke's
assertion is that everyone that drowned was evil, I want to see him
explain about the very young.
I want to hear about the starfish drowned by the flood of fresh water
into the Mediterranean, the Dead Sea and the Black Sea. What did they do
to deserve death? Poor things, haven't even got brains. Did they choose
to sin as well?
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0
All religions have based morality on obedience, that is to say, on
voluntary slavery. That is why they have always been more pernicious than
any political organization. For the latter makes use of violence. the
former -- of the corruption of the will.
-- Alexander Herzen
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| User: "Anaconda wrestlers for Jesus" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Our awesome God |
13 Nov 2005 07:33:03 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> suddenly spluttered:
Every one that was "removed" is the source of all evil on the earth.
So, there were, for example, only two sinless spiny anteaters, one of
whom happened to be male, and one of whom happened to be female, and
Noah knew exactly which two they were, exactly how?
------------------------------------------------
Conflict over the exact will/purpose/nature of God cannot ever be
resolved, since there are no facts to go on.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
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| User: "kathryn" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Our awesome God |
13 Nov 2005 08:04:08 PM |
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"Anaconda wrestlers for Jesus" <yournamehere@martyrdom.org> wrote in message
news:r35fn11p5q32tmipnp32btais61mpsu06p@4ax.com...
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> suddenly spluttered:
Every one that was "removed" is the source of all evil on the earth.
So, there were, for example, only two sinless spiny anteaters, one of
whom happened to be male, and one of whom happened to be female, and
Noah knew exactly which two they were, exactly how?
------------------------------------------------
Conflict over the exact will/purpose/nature of God cannot ever be
resolved, since there are no facts to go on.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
and the kangaroos
that's a real head scratcher, all the way over to australia and back again
.
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| User: "Anaconda wrestlers for Jesus" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Re: Our awesome God |
13 Nov 2005 08:07:18 PM |
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"kathryn" <nospam@here.com> suddenly spluttered:
"Anaconda wrestlers for Jesus" <yournamehere@martyrdom.org> wrote in message
news:r35fn11p5q32tmipnp32btais61mpsu06p@4ax.com...
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> suddenly spluttered:
Every one that was "removed" is the source of all evil on the earth.
So, there were, for example, only two sinless spiny anteaters, one of
whom happened to be male, and one of whom happened to be female, and
Noah knew exactly which two they were, exactly how?
------------------------------------------------
Conflict over the exact will/purpose/nature of God cannot ever be
resolved, since there are no facts to go on.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
and the kangaroos
that's a real head scratcher, all the way over to australia and back again
Well, seeing as humans could live 900 years in those days, maybe
kangaroos could hop 10,000 miles in one bound.
------------------------------------------------
Conflict over the exact will/purpose/nature of God cannot ever be
resolved, since there are no facts to go on.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
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| User: "kathryn" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Re: Our awesome God |
13 Nov 2005 08:12:36 PM |
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"Anaconda wrestlers for Jesus" <yournamehere@martyrdom.org> wrote in message
news:067fn11g3avpakd7eja8j5tkddensfm37k@4ax.com...
"kathryn" <nospam@here.com> suddenly spluttered:
"Anaconda wrestlers for Jesus" <yournamehere@martyrdom.org> wrote in
message
news:r35fn11p5q32tmipnp32btais61mpsu06p@4ax.com...
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> suddenly spluttered:
Every one that was "removed" is the source of all evil on the earth.
So, there were, for example, only two sinless spiny anteaters, one of
whom happened to be male, and one of whom happened to be female, and
Noah knew exactly which two they were, exactly how?
------------------------------------------------
Conflict over the exact will/purpose/nature of God cannot ever be
resolved, since there are no facts to go on.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
and the kangaroos
that's a real head scratcher, all the way over to australia and back again
Well, seeing as humans could live 900 years in those days, maybe
kangaroos could hop 10,000 miles in one bound.
------------------------------------------------
Conflict over the exact will/purpose/nature of God cannot ever be
resolved, since there are no facts to go on.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #220
Like some kind of gaint flea?
.
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| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Re: Our awesome God |
13 Nov 2005 09:22:08 PM |
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Anaconda wrestlers for Jesus <yournamehere@martyrdom.org> wrote in
news:067fn11g3avpakd7eja8j5tkddensfm37k@4ax.com:
"kathryn" <nospam@here.com> suddenly spluttered:
"Anaconda wrestlers for Jesus" <yournamehere@martyrdom.org> wrote in
message news:r35fn11p5q32tmipnp32btais61mpsu06p@4ax.com...
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> suddenly spluttered:
Every one that was "removed" is the source of all evil on the earth.
So, there were, for example, only two sinless spiny anteaters, one of
whom happened to be male, and one of whom happened to be female, and
Noah knew exactly which two they were, exactly how?
------------------------------------------------
Conflict over the exact will/purpose/nature of God cannot ever be
resolved, since there are no facts to go on.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
and the kangaroos
that's a real head scratcher, all the way over to australia and back
again
Well, seeing as humans could live 900 years in those days, maybe
kangaroos could hop 10,000 miles in one bound.
They must have carried the echidna's and platypuses in their pouches I
suppose ;-).
Klazmon.
------------------------------------------------
Conflict over the exact will/purpose/nature of God cannot ever be
resolved, since there are no facts to go on.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Our awesome God |
13 Nov 2005 07:46:46 PM |
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"Cindy" <cplowt882@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:b7ven19vsnrcd0i59brg9nj8fftjrqi2oj@4ax.com...
Sorry, but in my 'humaness' I have a need to say something...
Our awesome God is incapable of creating a "stupid system",..as He is
the source of all wisdom,..and love,..so I ask His forgiveness if I
momentarily cannot resist the urge to 'correct' you all.
That 'free will' He gave us does not prevent us, (you all included)
from 'acting' stupid....He has made wisdom available to us all,..but
there are none so blind as those who choose not to see.
That's nice, deary. Now, be a dove and prove your god exists, okay?
<remaining nonsense snipped unread>
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Science doesn't burn people at the stake for disagreeing - Vic Sagerquist
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| User: "nafc" |
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| Title: Re: Our awesome God |
13 Nov 2005 07:14:34 PM |
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"Cindy" <cplowt882@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:b7ven19vsnrcd0i59brg9nj8fftjrqi2oj@4ax.com...
Sorry, but in my 'humaness' I have a need to say something...
....which is blah blah belch fart
Nothing but a lot of annoying noise.
Our awesome God is incapable of creating a "stupid system",..as He is
the source of all wisdom,..and love,..so I ask His forgiveness if I
momentarily cannot resist the urge to 'correct' you all.
That 'free will' He gave us does not prevent us, (you all included)
from 'acting' stupid....He has made wisdom available to us all,..but
there are none so blind as those who choose not to see.
Sin, separates us from God, and has natural consequences...that stem
from our refusal to acknowledge the Higher Power of Love that
fashioned us from dust.
Did you know that soil has all the same elements in it as 'man'?..We
truly are made of dirt and until God breathed His life into Adam he
had no spirit.
And just like in kindergarten,..all of us get 'punished' when one of
us refuses to obey...It just goes with the territory of life in this
world, that bad things happen to us all...life is not 'fair',...but
God is!
This awesome God we speak of loves you, like it or not.
Any if you don't love him back he'll have you tortured for eternity. You
call that love?
As for 'evidence'?
"Faith is the substance of things hoped for,...
the evidence, of things not seen."
The more you all post your rubbish, the more your own arguments will
fall flat. Do any of you ever open up your heart to let love in?...or
do you prefer to keep proving the truth of that proverb that says ..
"Even a fool is counted wise if he keeps his mouth shut"
That's perfect advice for you.
Some translations put it this way,.."better to keep silent and say
nothing than to open your mouth and prove yourself a fool.."
I am no exeption to that rule, and have many times had 'foot in mouth
disease",...but I challange you all to be open minded enough to dare
to open a Bible to the Book of Proverbs and chew on some of the wisdom
you'll find there.
God loves you all, so do we Christians,..
Considering the brutal history of Christianity I'll pass on your love.
so we can be patient longer
than you can argue,..only I warn you, God will ultimately win any
debate that goes for the truth of any matter....
Cindy
Well Cindy, others have replied as well. Will you answer or are you just
another post and run Christian coward?
nafc
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Our awesome God |
13 Nov 2005 09:26:32 PM |
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"Cindy" <cplowt882@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:b7ven19vsnrcd0i59brg9nj8fftjrqi2oj@4ax.com...
Sorry, but in my 'humaness' I have a need to say something...
I assume you agree with your god that I somehow deserve to be *tortured
forever*
That opinion alone reduces your claim to humaness.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
http://www.ashenempires.com
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| User: "Larry Heath" |
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| Title: Re: Our awesome God |
13 Nov 2005 06:19:07 PM |
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"Cindy" <cplowt882@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:b7ven19vsnrcd0i59brg9nj8fftjrqi2oj@4ax.com...
Clip much non-sense
"Even a fool is counted wise if he keeps his mouth shut"
Its a shame that you don't consider your own advise and take it to heart.
Or consider its corollary, and I paraphrase, "It is better to keep silent,
and be thought the fool, than to open ones mouth and remove all doubts."
For the people of this group, you have most assuredly removed all doubt.
Cindy
Later Larry
aa # 2216
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| User: "Anaconda wrestlers for Jesus" |
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| Title: Re: Our awesome God |
13 Nov 2005 06:55:51 PM |
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Cindy <cplowt882@hotmail.co.uk> suddenly spluttered:
I am no exeption to that rule, and have many times had 'foot in mouth
disease",...but I challange you all to be open minded enough to dare
to open a Bible to the Book of Proverbs and chew on some of the wisdom
you'll find there.
Why don't you take some lessons in comprehension and then read the
whole book with an open mind and a proper set of critical tools. The
test of whether you have carried out the exercise properly is that you
will finish up as an atheist.
------------------------------------------------
Conflict over the exact will/purpose/nature of God cannot ever be
resolved, since there are no facts to go on.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
.
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| User: "Doc Smartass" |
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| Title: Re: Our awesome God |
13 Nov 2005 10:56:05 PM |
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Cindy <cplowt882@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in
news:b7ven19vsnrcd0i59brg9nj8fftjrqi2oj@4ax.com:
God loves you all, so do we Christians,..so we can be patient longer
than you can argue,..only I warn you, God will ultimately win any
debate that goes for the truth of any matter....
Show us your kuh-nockers, troll-wench.
--
Doc Smartass XP - New Interface, Same Old *****
Brought to you by...
The Catholic Church. No, we don't like gays.
But if you're a pedo, you're PRIEST material!!
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| User: "Jesus H Christ" |
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| Title: Re: Our awesome God |
14 Nov 2005 05:41:47 PM |
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Cindy <cplowt882@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in
news:b7ven19vsnrcd0i59brg9nj8fftjrqi2oj@4ax.com:
Sorry, but in my 'humaness' I have a need to say something...
Our awesome God is incapable of creating a "stupid system",..as He is
the source of all wisdom,..and love,..so I ask His forgiveness if I
momentarily cannot resist the urge to 'correct' you all.
Fine. Just don't expect us to believe whatever it is you're selling.
That 'free will' He gave us does not prevent us, (you all included)
from 'acting' stupid....He has made wisdom available to us all,..but
there are none so blind as those who choose not to see.
As for "acting" stupid, religious belief is inversely correlated to IQ.
So if you believe, statistically you're more likely to be stupider than
those that don't. Whether the relationship is causal is yet to be
determined ;-)
Sin, separates us from God, and has natural consequences...that stem
from our refusal to acknowledge the Higher Power of Love that
fashioned us from dust.
Well, I have no problems with being fashioned from dust.
I just don't think goddidit.
Did you know that soil has all the same elements in it as 'man'?..We
truly are made of dirt and until God breathed His life into Adam he
had no spirit.
We are also made out of all the stuff that comes out of supernovae.
So which did god breathe life into again?
And just like in kindergarten,..all of us get 'punished' when one of
us refuses to obey...It just goes with the territory of life in this
world, that bad things happen to us all...life is not 'fair',...but
God is!
Well, gee. You mean the entire world is Gods kindergarten?
So God's letting the kindergartens occupants get drowned in tsunamis,
killed in earthquakes and generally snuffed out ON HIS WATCH?
Sounds like God needs to go back to teachers ed.
This awesome God we speak of loves you, like it or not.
Aww, shucks.
As for 'evidence'?
"Faith is the substance of things hoped for,...
the evidence, of things not seen."
Well, pardon me for pissing on your parade but faith without proof is
like a parachute without a ripcord.
It might FEEL good, but it sure ain't gonna prevent you from making a
bugsplat on the ground.
The more you all post your rubbish, the more your own arguments will
fall flat. Do any of you ever open up your heart to let love in?...or
do you prefer to keep proving the truth of that proverb that says ..
"Even a fool is counted wise if he keeps his mouth shut"
Well, since science says more and more about the universe and religion
says less and less I guess it's religion that'll just have to learn all
about the meaning of that particular proverb ;-)
Some translations put it this way,.."better to keep silent and say
nothing than to open your mouth and prove yourself a fool.."
I am no exeption to that rule, and have many times had 'foot in mouth
disease",...but I challange you all to be open minded enough to dare
to open a Bible to the Book of Proverbs and chew on some of the wisdom
you'll find there.
Hmm. How about you go learn some modern evolutionary biology, instead.
God loves you all, so do we Christians,..so we can be patient longer
than you can argue,..only I warn you, God will ultimately win any
debate that goes for the truth of any matter....
Threats. It ALWAYS comes down to threats. Hellfire, Brimstone, yada yada
yada. So much for the love, huh?
Cindy
wash my feet, fundie.
Jesus
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| User: "Enkidu the Atheist" |
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| Title: Re: Our awesome God |
13 Nov 2005 06:20:43 PM |
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Cindy <cplowt882@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in
news:b7ven19vsnrcd0i59brg9nj8fftjrqi2oj@4ax.com:
Sorry, but in my 'humaness' I have a need to say something...
Our awesome God is incapable of creating a "stupid system",..as He is
the source of all wisdom,..and love,..so I ask His forgiveness if I
momentarily cannot resist the urge to 'correct' you all.
Who are *you* to place limits on an omnipotent God? He can create a
"stupid system" if He wants to. And, considering the evidence, if He
created anything, He created a stupid system.
That 'free will' He gave us does not prevent us, (you all included)
from 'acting' stupid....He has made wisdom available to us all,..but
there are none so blind as those who choose not to see.
So, God can't create a stupid system, but He can create a system where
His creations are stupid and do stupid things. Doesn't that make God
stupid by proxy?
Sin, separates us from God, and has natural consequences...that stem
from our refusal to acknowledge the Higher Power of Love that
fashioned us from dust.
Pretty stupid to create beings who do exactly what God knew they would
do, then punish them for eternity.
Did you know that soil has all the same elements in it as 'man'?..We
truly are made of dirt and until God breathed His life into Adam he
had no spirit.
Being from this planet, we can't help but be made from the materials at
hand. This is not evidence for a divine creator, but evidence for a
natural explanation such as Darwin's. Now if you can show that life is
not possible without some element not available in nature, you might have
something.
And just like in kindergarten,..all of us get 'punished' when one of
us refuses to obey...It just goes with the territory of life in this
world, that bad things happen to us all...life is not 'fair',...but
God is!
This awesome God we speak of loves you, like it or not.
As for 'evidence'?
"Faith is the substance of things hoped for,...
the evidence, of things not seen."
The more you all post your rubbish, the more your own arguments will
fall flat. Do any of you ever open up your heart to let love in?...or
do you prefer to keep proving the truth of that proverb that says ..
"Even a fool is counted wise if he keeps his mouth shut"
Some translations put it this way,.."better to keep silent and say
nothing than to open your mouth and prove yourself a fool.."
I am no exeption to that rule, and have many times had 'foot in mouth
disease",...but I challange you all to be open minded enough to dare
to open a Bible to the Book of Proverbs and chew on some of the wisdom
you'll find there.
God loves you all, so do we Christians,..so we can be patient longer
than you can argue,..only I warn you, God will ultimately win any
debate that goes for the truth of any matter....
Cindy
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0
Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.
--Thomas Jefferson, February 10, 1814
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| User: "Mark" |
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| Title: Re: Our awesome God |
14 Nov 2005 12:22:51 AM |
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Cindy <cplowt882@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in
news:b7ven19vsnrcd0i59brg9nj8fftjrqi2oj@4ax.com:
Sorry, but in my 'humaness' I have a need to say something...
paraphrasing the one true god,
"say what you like, but don't do it here"
--
Mark
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: Our awesome God |
13 Nov 2005 06:20:26 PM |
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Cindy <cplowt882@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in
news:b7ven19vsnrcd0i59brg9nj8fftjrqi2oj@4ax.com:
I think you misspelled "non-existent" in the subject line. It doesn't
start with an "a".
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
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| User: "Jon Skinner" |
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| Title: Re: Our awesome God |
15 Nov 2005 05:49:22 AM |
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Cindy <cplowt882@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
Sorry, but...
...I have a need...
....I momentarily cannot resist the urge...
...God...
...God...
...God.
Thanks Cindy, that was great, but don't you think that alt.masturbation
would be a more appropriate forum for this kind of wank? This is a
family newsgroup, after all.
--
Jon
a.a.#277
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| User: "Santolina chamaecyparissus" |
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| Title: Re: Our awesome God |
14 Nov 2005 05:57:11 AM |
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Cindy wrote:
Cindy
Is it true? Did Greg dork your mom? Was your stepdad gay? Is Alice
really a dude?
.
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| User: "Ash" |
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| Title: Re: Our awesome God |
13 Nov 2005 08:39:01 PM |
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Cindy wrote:
Did you know that soil has all the same elements in it as 'man'?..We
truly are made of dirt and until God breathed His life into Adam he
had no spirit.
In the same percentages? Is that any soil, or a specific sort? Do
different sorts of soil have different elemental compositions or is the
difference negligible?
.
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| User: "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian" |
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| Title: Re: Our awesome God |
14 Nov 2005 05:43:00 AM |
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Cindy wrote:
...as He is
the source of all wisdom,..and love,..
Strange then that "his revealed word" is full of nonsense and of barbaric
bloodshed, no?
That 'free will' He gave us does not prevent us, (you all included)
from 'acting' stupid...
Option 1: Your god is omniscient
Option 2: We have free will
Which one is wrong?
Sin, separates us from God, and has natural consequences...that stem
from our refusal to acknowledge the Higher Power of Love that
fashioned us from dust.
Good to see that you are aware of at least one piece of nonsense claimed to
be true in the bible. Aside from that, please solve the riddle of Epicurus.
And just like in kindergarten,..all of us get 'punished' when one of
us refuses to obey...
You concede then that your god is terribly limited in his powers. Gee, from
a _God_ I'd have expected more capabilities.
This awesome God we speak of loves you, like it or not.
No he doesn't. Not if the bible speaks the truth. Again, you decide. What
option is wrong?
The more you all post your rubbish, the more your own arguments will
fall flat. Do any of you ever open up your heart to let love in?
Unsupported assertion: That atheists don't know love.
Ignoring the facts: That nonbelievers (at least in the 4th reich of
ameriKKKa, land of the fear, home of the slaves) are on the defense instead
of offense. They defend themselves from the constant stream of attacks,
harrassment and persecution coming from the jebus cultists (i. e. babblical
literalists / fundaMENTALists).
...but I challange you all to be open minded enough to dare
to open a Bible to the Book of Proverbs and chew on some of the wisdom
you'll find there.
There are other works of man containing wisdom... and many of them do _not_
also contain easy condonements of genocide, mass rape, slavery, younameit.
God loves you all
According to the babble he doesn't.
so do we Christians,..
Then according to the (real) ten commandments you are heretics. Read them at
Ex 34.
God will ultimately win any
debate that goes for the truth of any matter....
No. To win anything he'd first have to exist, which he fortunately can't.
--
"To his friend a man a friend shall prove,
And gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking with mockery answer,
And fraud with falsehood meet."
(The Poetic Edda)
Must have been written with fundies in mind...
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| User: "Richo" |
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| Title: Re: Our awesome God |
14 Nov 2005 10:35:29 AM |
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Cindy wrote:
Sorry, but in my 'humaness' I have a need to say something...
You can say whatever you like.
I don't have to listen.
Freedom is good.
Mark.
.
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| User: "Olrik" |
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| Title: Re: Our awesome God |
14 Nov 2005 05:37:14 AM |
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Cindy wrote:
Sorry, but in my 'humaness' I have a need to say something...
Our awesome God is incapable of creating a "stupid system",
Look at this planet. Your "god" failed in every single way possible.
<snip rest of fly-by poster's drivel>
Cindy
--
Olrik
aa #1981
Qualified SMASH member
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: Our awesome God |
14 Nov 2005 06:12:10 AM |
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Cindy wrote:
Sorry, but in my 'humaness' I have a need to say something...
Our awesome God is incapable of creating a "stupid system",..as He
is
the source of all wisdom,..and love,..so I ask His forgiveness if I
momentarily cannot resist the urge to 'correct' you all.
Your 'god' cannot even exist, much less create anything.
It is about as relevant to anything as the Easter Bunny
or tooth fairy.
You aren't going to correct anybody because you are
wrong and haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about.
It is great god does not exist, he most certainly not
love in the bible, but hate. He commanded massacres
and genocides, and was as evil a ***** as ever
appeared in literature.
Your nonexistant god is a failed and easily debunked
idea. Here is hard evidence. I give this to you in
love and hope that it will show you the way to truth,
its time for humanity to finally grow up,
---------------------------------------------
IS THERE A GOD?
Strong Atheism's answer.
A BASIC DEFINITION OF GOD.
The general overarching definition of god as per
the major religions of the world is:
A. God is personal, God has will and consciousness.
B. God has free will.
C. God is the creator of all.
D. God is omnipotent.
E. God is omnibenevolent.
F. God is omniscient.
G. God is that which nothing more powerful
can be imagined.
These are the basic attributes that can be claimed
for the god of orthodox Judaism, Christianity,
Islam, and Hinduism.
Omnibenevolence and omniscience are actually
logically derivable from the claimed attribute of
omnipotence and so aren't not truly independent
attributes, and may be considered special aspects
of omnipotence.
There are other attributes of god, that he is the
only such god, that he is is immortal and that
god has always existed that are not important
for this discussion and for now, can be ignored.
They are secondary arguments and are for the most
part not foundational or truly necessary, except
those that can be logically derived from the
attributes listed above.
A CLASS OF GODS
It is important to note here that this is a
definition not for a particular god, but an
entire class of gods.
Sub-theories about god are not important here.
Christianity claims one may attain salvation
only through Jesus, Islam claims the Christian
dogma that Jesus was the son of god is
blasphemous.
Ideas like this though, are of little importance
to the overarching and general claims made for a
personal, creator, omni-everything god. I have
coined a term, The Grand God of Grand Theologies
for this sort of god, this sort of theological
system of expansive claims for god.
Grand theologies are those theologies that have
adopted this class of god as their basic
attributes concerning the nature of god. But it
is important to remember here that what is being
discussed here is a class of gods, not particular
gods or specific gods.
THE FOUR GREAT THEOLOGICAL TRADITIONS
Again, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism hold
to this basic Grand God and are typical Grand
Theologies holding to this basic class of god as
their basic definitions of what god is at god's
most basic level.
A big problem with this class of gods is, it
collapses rather easily into internal self
contradiction.
THE PROBLEM OF EVIL.
The problem of evil was first written down by
Epicurus in about the third century BCE.
Today's formulation is:
A. God is defined as omnipotent;
B. and as omnibenevolent.
C. Evil exists.
D. God therefore, is not omnipotent as claimed.
E. Or God is not omnibenevolent as claimed.
F. Or god is neither omnipotent or
omnibenevolent.
G. Or god is not existant.
THE FREE WILL DEFENSE
The free will defense of the problem of evil goes
back to St. Augustine who popularized it. It is
still popular, and is championed most notably
today by Alvin Plantinga, but also by other
theologians.
God gave man free will. Man freely chooses to do
evil. Ability to do evil is less evil than
lacking free will.
THE FREE WILL DEFENSE DEBUNKED.
God has free will.
God is omnibenevolent, he has a good nature
incapable of doing evil.
A. If god can have free will, and a good nature,
this good nature is not allowed to count
against god's free will.
B. Nor is god's lack of ability to do evil
allowed to count against god's omnipotence.
C. Likewise, man could easily have a god like
free will and a god like good nature.
D. Inabilty then to do evil would no more count
against man's free will than it does for god's
free will.
E. If so, it also counts against god's free will
and god does not have free will as claimed.
F. If god does not have absolute and total free
will, thus free will is not a true necessity
at all.
F. If god is omnipotent and omnibenevolent, and
can give man a god like free will and a
god-like good nature incapable of moral evil,
god must do so or god is not moral, not
omnibenevolent.
G. Evil exists because he allows it to.
So free will does not exist, or it does and we can
have a god like free will and a god like good
nature. Either way, free will cannot explain away
the existence of evil. This free will defense
then, is a failed argument.
OMNISCIENCE VERSUS CREATORHOOD OF GOD
God is defined as creator of all in most
religions.
And god is claimed to be omniscient, all knowing.
A. God created the Universe and all in it.
B. God is omniscient, all knowing, he knows all
in the Universe and he knows the future of the
Universe and its contents.
C. If god creates a Universe, he will know that
in 13 billion years this Universe will have a
man named John Smith in it.
D. If John Smith is good and saved, or evil and
damned, God will know that.
E. As he knows that the Universe in its present
state will have a John Smith, god may then
contemplate the future state of Smith and
decide if he will tolerate an evil Smith.
F. If yes, Smith will be evil only because of a
specific personal and will choice made solely
by god.
G. If Smith is evil, then evil exists solely
because of a choice made by god. In fact all
moral evil done by creations of god will be
evil and do evil only because of personal and
willful creations of god allowing evil acts
to be done, by direct decision of god.
H. If evil exists in a world with an omniscient
creator god, it is solely and only because
god allows evil.
I. If evil exists solely because of personal
choices of god, god then is not as defined,
omnibenevolent.
J. Man and any other sentient being in such a
Universe cannot have any free will, not even
in principle. A Universe with a god that
creates all and knows all precludes free will
for all beings god creates in the strongest
possible manner.
The Grand God of Grand
Theology is thus self destroying, it is
incoherent and contradictory as a theory.
THE SITUATION SO FAR.
1. A minimalistic class of gods is defined, this
Grand God has been defined here with as few
terms as possible.
2. The problem of evil dooms such a claimed god.
3. The attempted defense, free will is fatally
flawed. God's good nature and free will doom
claims free will makes evil necessary for man
to have free will.
4. Omniscience and creatorhood of god further
doom claims of god's omnibenevolence and
man's free will free will cannot exist for
man. All evil is the direct and knowing
creation of god contradicting claims of
omnibenevolence.
5. Since Free will for man is totally impossible,
free will cannot be a good quality, much less
necessary.
Here, the Grand God of Grand Theology has
collapsed. As has Grand
Theology. As pointed out, this destroys the claims
and viability of an entire class of possible gods,
all secondary and tertiary claims for such a god of
this class also fail, as do dogmas or secondary
or tertiary claims.
If a these Grand Gods cannot exist as defined,
specific gods cannot, nor can claims such as this
or that Grand God sent this or that revelation to
man or some prophet or did this or that.
God is thus disprove and is utter irrelevant
to anything real and existant.
***********
OMNIPOTENCE AND OMNISCIENCE
A. Omnipotence is a special sort of attribute, of
all god's alledged attributes the most
important, because from that attribute you
can derive others attributes, including
omniscience. If one says for purposes of
argument god is omnipotent, one is also
implying god is also omniscient.
B. If god is omnipotent, god must also
specifically have omniscience because if
he does not have omniscience, one
cannot claim omnipotence as an attribute.
C. Thus if god is omnipotent, and created all,
free will is impossible because creation
and omniscience rule out free will as was
shown. In this world god supposedly created,
evil exists. So god must not be
omnibenevolent as claimed as all evil is
created by god if man cannot have free will.
D. So omnipotence and omnibenevolence are thus
mutually exclusive in a world that does in
fact have evil in it. Because omniscience
must exist as part of omnipotence and
omniscience and creatorhood cannot coexist
with free will, omnipotence is also not
compatible with creatorhood and
omnibenevolence. One cannot finesse this
all by ignoringomniscience or abandoning
omniscience.
E. One can only dispose of omniscience by also
explicitly abandoning omnipotence. If god is
defined as being omnibenevolent then a god
that is also allegedly also creator of all
must be evil.
CREATORHOOD OF GOD
F. One may be tempted to abandon the idea god
created all. But that creates some very strong
logical problems also.
G. If god is omnipotent, he can create all. Or
modify any other creation he does not himself
create. No other being or process may create
something god could not modify, because of the
power of his omniscience.
H. So if for purposes of argument, we claim the
Universe was not created by god, he could,
being omnipotent, change that creation for
his own purposes, that of creating good due
to his attribute of omnibenevolence.
We are back to the problem of evil again, he
could change creation such that no evil John
Smiths can exist.
If not he then is sole and only cause for
existence of all evil.
If god is omnibenevolent and omnipotent he
still must modify any creations he did not
himself create to destroy evil, if he can
do so. So claiming god did not create all
does not save the concept of an omnipotent,
omnibenevolent god. It cannot avoid the
problem of evil.
I. Omniscience means we cannot dodge the problem
of evil by stating god did not create the
Universe even if one wished to, nor by limiting
his creatorhood, for example saying god did not
create the original material of the Universe,
but used it as a building material.
J. Thus to get rid of the creator problem, we must
explicitly abandon it all and totally. Only by
doing so could one get around the problem of
creatorhood and omniscience. But if we say god
cannot either create the Universe or modify it
as he finds it, we drop omniscience also,
explicitly. God then turns out not to be
creator of all nor omnipotent as a priori
defined, a contradiction disproving that
a priori defined god.
K. If evil exists because god could change the
Universe he did not create, and he fails to do
so, then all evil exists solely because
of knowing and personal choices god makes.
L. God being omnipotent cannot be controlled by
any other process or other entities. He may
modify any works or creations made by them.
M. If god cannot change creations of others, or
the pre-existing materials of the Universe,
omnipotence in not an attribute of god as
claimed a priori.
M. Omnipotence and creatorhood thus are entangled
in a manner that makes it hard to abandon the
doctrine god created all and if one does, one
must likewise abandon claims of omnipotence.
PRE-EXISTING MATTER AND A PRE-EXISTING UNIVERSE.
The Greek writer Hesiod in his Theogony, starts
with a Universe that is a chaotic void. This
void, through the mysterious property of
emanation, created the first generation of gods,
the Titans, who in their turn created the
Olympians gods who eventually displace the
Titans as rulers of the world.
Likewise, some theologians see Genesis as
representing god creating the world out of a
similar void, a primordial sea god did not
himself create, but used as raw material for
his creations.
God's existence is not explained.
This idea god did not create all still would not
absolve an omnipotent god from responsibility
for evil. The biblical god if he did not create
the Universe and its component materials used them
as he pleased. If that god is omnipotent, then he
bears all responsibility for the world he did
create out of pre-existing material. Whether
this god is said to be eternal or like Hesiod's
Titans was somehow emanated from the chaos of
the void does not materially change any arguments
involving omnipotence, omniscience or
omnibenevolence, if god is said to have these
attributes.
************************************************
ATTRIBUTES OF GOD PART THREE
Does god create the rules, the laws, the logic of
the Universe or not? Is 2 + 2 = 4 something god
set as part of the nature of the Universe or is
that outside and beyond god?
Can god change 2 + 2 to 5?
A. If god did in fact make the rules and laws and
logic of the Universe, god could also change
them as needed.
B. A god that creates the rules.laws and logic
of the world he creates could simply make a
world where man has free will yet freely
chooses only to do moral good. Since god
creates the rules of the Universe, he could
change them in name of omnibenevolence, free
will is perserved and evil is banished. Evil
no longer needs to exist to allow for free
will.
C. If god could do this and fails to, evil
exists solely and only because of god's
failure to use his omnipotence to change
the rules and laws and logic of the Universe
to give man free will and a nature incapable
of doing evil.
D. If god can do this and fails to, god is not
omnibenevolent as claimed, a contradiction
in definitions of god as omnibenevolent and
omnipotent.
E. God in fact since he is essentially the
creator and sustaining cause of all evil
that was, is, and shall be is omni-malevolent.
F. If god does not make the rules, the laws, the
very logic of the Universe, then we have the
problem of what these things are and where
they come from.
G. If these laws and rules and logic limit god,
then god is obviously not omnipotent as
claimed.
H. And thus god is not as claimed, the greatest
thing that can be imagined. Obviously laws
and rules and logic that limit the most
powerful in the Universe are greater
still because they do in fact limit such
a being.
I. If such laws and rules and logic outside and
beyond god do exist, and are thus greater
than god, god is not the greatest thing
imaginable and all ontological 'proofs' that
are based on that basic claim fail.
J. Such rules and laws and logic must exist
outside of god's control and must have always
bee outside his control. If there were ever
in god's control, god cannot have reduced his
power to abandon omnipotence voluntarily.
Omnipotence is an inherent ability. It would
be like abandoning a sense of taste or touch.
This observation forstalls attempts at
apologisms claiming god abandoned any
abilities.
K. And if god could indeed abandon omnipotence,
he must avoid that. After all, he is also
omnibenevolent. Omnibenevolence dictates he
must at all times do the good thing, never an
evil thing. Abandoning omnipotence such that
he could no longer create a world where man
has free will, and a nature incapable of evil
is to allow evil to exist. To abandon
omnipotence is to embrace the proposition
evil is to be allowed to flourish. So any
claims god might have for some greater good
abandoned omnipotence freely are not possible.
L. If god is said to be omnipotent, if he at
anytime gave up any abilities he can no
longer said to be omnipotent, if he actually
gave up any abilities.
M. Since god must have had maximum power and
abilities and cannot have at any time
voluntarilyy relinquished any powers or
abilities, at least in the name of banishing
evil the fact that there are laws and rules
and logic of a universe outside and beyond
god, they aretrulyy beyond and outside god,
and always were.
N. Since such laws and rules and laws are outside
god, and always were so,and are properties of
the Universe, the Universe is likewise outside
and beyond god, with its laws and rules and
logic.
O. Since the Universe and its laws and rules and
logic are outside and beyond god, god is not
as, creator of all.
P. Since the Universe no longer relies on god for
its purportedexistencee, nor on god for the
existencee of its laws and rules and logic,
god is no longer a necessary being. If there
are things that have necessaryexistencee, it
would have to be the Universe as whole, or
possibly its laws, its rules or its logic,
or a subset of these rules or laws or the
underlying causes of these things, if any.
None were created by god or can be modified
by god.
Q. If these laws and rules and logic could be
modified by god, then the rules and laws
and logic of the Universe would have been
modified to enexistencece of evil, and must
be modified this if god is actually
omnipotent and omnibenevolent.
R. God then is not omnipotent, or not
omnibenevolent, or is neither, or
does not exist.
THE ATTRIBUTES AND NATURE OF GOD IN LIGHT OF THE
ABOVE EXAMINATION OF GOD
Thus the idea god is omnipotent, omnibenevolent,
and creator of all, clash again
and mutually self-destruct over the issue of
evil'existencece. This raises
serious questions on the nature of the Universe
that cannot be as Grand Theology
claims it is.
A. We have shown god cannot have created the
Universe.
B. We have shown god does not create the laws,
rules and laws of that Universe.
C. That god is thus not omnipotent as these laws
limit him.
D. That god is not the greatest imaginable thing.
E. That ontological proofs of god'existencece
based on claims god is the greatest thing
imaginable are failed arguments.
F. That god cannot be a necessary being, as
claimed.
G. That any possible claims god might for some
reason abandon or limit any abilities cannot
be true in any attempt to avoid this line of
inquiry. Nor can that approach derail logical
examination of consequences of Grand
Theology's overarching claims to god's
attributes or nature.
The fact that god iallegedlyly omnibenevolent and
evil exists, demonstrates god cannot make the
rules of the world. 2 + 2 = 4 because that is
the nature of the Universe, not something god
created.Because if god did create the rules and
laws and logic of the Universe, and was
omnibenevolent, we should have no signs of evil,
especially moral evil of man, Satan, demons and
devils.
But if one admits to that, Many other important
claims collapse, many other arguments about god
and his attributes and nature no longer are
viable. Some of these claims, god's creation
of the Universe are among the oldest and most
basic of theology.
Ontological proofs started with Anselm in the
10th century, all of these now must be abandoned.
The necessary being argument, long a rhetorical
argument is now finally dead.
Free will defenses against the problem of evil
opened up a line of attack here that is powerful
and very final.
**************************************************
--
"If lightning is the anger of the gods, the
gods are concerned mostly with trees."
- Lao Tse
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "Del" |
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| Title: Re: Our awesome God |
14 Nov 2005 10:30:19 AM |
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wbarwell wrote:
Cindy wrote:
Sorry, but in my 'humaness' I have a need to say something...
Our awesome God is incapable of creating a "stupid system",..as He
is
the source of all wisdom,..and love,..so I ask His forgiveness if I
momentarily cannot resist the urge to 'correct' you all.
Your 'god' cannot even exist, much less create anything.
It is about as relevant to anything as the Easter Bunny
or tooth fairy.
You aren't going to correct anybody becaus e you are
wrong and haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about.
And to PROVE it to you, Cindy, Cheerful Charlie is going
to impress you with his "Awesome, dOOd!" argument. It
has never EVER been refuted! At least not since he plaglarized
it. (his "Awesome, dOOd!" argument is to arguments what
Yahoo Serious is to comedy) This argument is so awesome,
so perfect that if you don't think it is "Awesome, dOOd!"
you are too dumb to matter. Let me tell you how awesome
it is. It is so awesome that CC becomes plural. That's right.
Check it:
"We have shown god cannot have created the Universe."
Charlie is now "We." Isn't that cute? (Admit it Cindy:
You're impressed).
Warning!: Don't ask CC how he derives omnibenevolence
from omnipotence! He's a little touchy about that one.
It is great god does not exist, he most certainly not
love in the bible, but hate.
See how much faith he has in his "argument"?
He commanded massacres
and genocides, and was as evil a ***** as ever
appeared in literature.
To get an idea of what he means, Cheerful Charlie also says
that if you'd rather serve in the military in Iraq than go to
prison for life, you are an evil *****. You see, CC is
ready to give up his life at a drop of the hat on moral
principles if he ever had to. Of course he is careful to
avoid any such situation.
Your nonexistant god is a failed and easily debunked
idea. Here is hard evidence.
Hahahahahaha! "hard evidence" What a card.
I give this to you in
love and hope that it will show you the way to truth,
Ignore the insults Cindy, CC is really about "love" n' "truth."
its time for humanity to finally grow up,
As you might expect, to "grow up" means not to question
his "awesome, dOOd" argument.
---------------------------------------------
IS THERE A GOD?
Strong Atheism's answer.
A BASIC DEFINITION OF GOD.
The general overarching definition of god as per
the major religions of the world is:
A. God is personal, God has will and consci ousness.
B. God has free will.
C. God is the creator of all.
D. God is omnipotent.
E. God is omnibenevolent.
F. God is omniscient.
G. God is that which nothing more powerful
can be imagined.
These are the basic attributes that can be claimed
for the god of orthodox Judaism, Christianity,
Islam, and Hinduism.
Omnibenevolence and omniscience are actually
logically derivable from the claimed attribute of
omnipotence and so aren't not truly independent
attributes, and may be considered special aspects
of omnipotence.
There are other attributes of god, that he is the
only such god, that he is is immortal and that
god has always existed that are not important
for this discussion and for now, can be ignored.
They are secondary arguments and are for the most
part not foundational or truly necessary, except
those that can be logically derived from the
attributes listed above.
A CLASS OF GODS
It is important to note here that this is a
definition not for a particular god, but an
entire class of gods.
Sub-theories about god are not important here.
Christianity claims one may attain salvation
only through Jesus, Islam claims the Christian
dogma that Jesus was the son of god is
blasphemous.
Ideas like this though, are of little importance
to the overarching and general claims made for a
personal, creator, omni-everything god. I have
coined a term, The Grand God of Grand Theologies
for this sort of god, this sort of theological
system of expansive claims for god.
Grand theologies are those theologies that have
adopted this class of god as their basic
attributes concerning the nature of god. But it
is important to remember here that what is being
discussed here is a class of gods, not particular
gods or specific gods.
THE FOUR GREAT THEOLOGICAL TRADITIONS
Again, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism hold
to this basic Grand God and are typical Grand
Theologies holding to this basic class of god as
their basic definitions of what god is at god's
most basic level.
A big problem with this class of gods is, it
collapses rather easily into internal self
contradiction.
THE PROBLEM OF EVIL.
The problem of evil was first written down by
Epicurus in about the third century BCE.
Today's formulation is:
A. God is defined as omnipotent;
B. and as omnibenevolent.
C. Evil exists.
D. God therefore, is not omnipotent as claimed.
E. Or God i s not omnibenevolent as claimed.
F. Or god is neither omnipotent or
omnibenevolent.
G. Or god is not existant.
THE FREE E
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