Our Faith-Based Justices



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: ""
Date: 24 Apr 2007 06:52:09 AM
Object: Our Faith-Based Justices
Our Faith-Based Justices
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-r-stone/our-faithbased-justices_b_46398.h\tml
In Gonzales v. Carhart, the Supreme Court, in a five-to-four decision,
upheld the constitutionality of a federal law prohibiting so-called
"partial birth abortions" (properly described as "intact dilation and
evacuation" or "intact D & E") despite the absence of an exception to
protect the health of the woman. Gonzales reversed an earlier
decision, Stenberg v. Carhart, in which the Court had held a virtually
identical state law unconstitutional, primarily because it failed to
include an exception to protect the health of the woman.
In the majority's view, the critical difference was that in enacting
the federal law Congress made several findings to support the
legislation. The majority accepted those findings even though, as
Justice Ginsburg observed in an unusually scathing dissent, those
findings were nothing more than political nonsense.
Among Congress's clearly erroneous "findings" were its assertions that
no medical schools provide instruction on intact D & E, that intact D
& E is never necessary to safeguard the health of the woman, and that
intact D & E is less safe than alternative procedures. Each of these
"findings" was and is false. In fact, many medical schools, including
Chicago, Northwestern, Yale, Columbia, teach intact D & E; there is a
clear medical consensus that in particular circumstances intact D & E
is necessary to protect the heath of the woman; and there is a clear
medical consensus that in particular circumstances intact D & E is
safer than the alternative procedures.
It is not unusual for the Supreme Court to give deference even to
implausible legislative findings. But the findings must at least be
rational and, when a law restricts a fundamental constitutional right,
the findings must be almost unimpeachable. In this instance, every
federal court that reviewed these congressional findings rightly
described them unreasonable, unbalanced, polemical, and unsupported by
the facts.
The five justices in the majority in Gonzales have put at risk the
health of women who suffer from heart disease, uterine scarring,
bleeding disorders, compromised immune systems, and certain
pregnancy-related conditions, such as placenta previa and accreta, as
well as those women carrying fetuses with certain abnormalities, such
as severe hydocephalus. In all of these circumstances, and many
others, the use of the intact D & E is necessary to ensure the health
of the woman.
It is important to note that the prohibition of intact D & E has
nothing to do with preserving the life of a fetus. The "partial birth
abortion" law does not prohibit any abortions. Rather, it prohibits
only a particular means of performing abortions. If the woman is
willing to undergo a greater than necessary risk to her health, she
may terminate her pregnancy by other, less safe, methods. She may, for
example, have the fetus terminated by injection prior to extraction,
or removed by cesarean, or extracted by non-intact D & E (which
involves dismembering the fetus in utero).
What, then, explains this decision? Here is a painfully awkward
observation: All five justices in the majority in Gonzales are
Catholic. The four justices who are either Protestant or Jewish all
voted in accord with settled precedent. It is mortifying to have to
point this out. But it is too obvious, and too telling, to ignore.
Ultimately, the five justices in the majority all fell back on a
common argument to justify their position. There is, they say, a
compelling moral reason for the result in Gonzales. Because the intact
D & E seems to resemble infanticide it is "immoral" and may be
prohibited even without a clear statutory exception to protect the
health of the woman.
By making this judgment, these justices have failed to respect the
fundamental difference between religious belief and morality. To be
sure, this can be an elusive distinction, but in a society that values
the separation of church and state, it is fundamental. The moral
status of a fetus is a profoundly difficult and rationally
unresolvable question. As the Supreme Court has recognized for more
than thirty years, when the fundamental right of a woman "to determine
her life's course" is at stake, it is not for the state -- or for the
justices of the Supreme Court -- to resolve that question, and it is
certainly not appropriate for the state or the justices to resolve it
on the basis of one's personal religious faith.
In 1972-73, I had the privilege of serving as a law clerk to Justice
William Brennan, then the Court's only Catholic justice. It was in
that year the Court decided Roe v. Wade. Justice Brennan struggled in
that case, as he struggled in earlier cases involving such issues as
school prayers, to separate his personal religious views from his
views as a justice. He joined the decision in Roe because he believed
in the separation of church and state and because he was convinced
that his religious views must be irrelevant to his responsibilities as
a justice.
As the Court observed fifteen years ago, "Some of us as individuals
find abortion offensive to our most basic principles of morality, but
than cannot control our decision. Our obligation is to define the
liberty of all, not to mandate our own moral code." It is sad that
Justices Roberts, Scalia, Kennedy, Thomas and Alito have chosen not to
follow this example.
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Historical Reality SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote
"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"
That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.
It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.
*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.

User: "Davej"

Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Justices 01 May 2007 08:51:14 AM
On Apr 24, 6:52 am,
wrote:

Our Faith-Based Justiceshttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-r-stone/our-faithbased-justice...tml

In Gonzales v. Carhart, the Supreme Court, in a five-to-four decision,
upheld the constitutionality of a federal law prohibiting so-called
"partial birth abortions" (properly described as "intact dilation and
evacuation" or "intact D & E") despite the absence of an exception to
protect the health of the woman. [...]

I myself have never heard a convincing argument for this procedure or
understood how it could be necessary to employ this procedure to
protect the health of the mother. At some point you have to classify a
fetus as being a human baby with some legal standing. When is that?
.
User: "Don Martin"

Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Justices 01 May 2007 07:13:01 PM
On 1 May 2007 06:51:14 -0700, Davej <galt_57@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Apr 24, 6:52 am,

wrote:

Our Faith-Based Justiceshttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-r-stone/our-faithbased-justice...tml

In Gonzales v. Carhart, the Supreme Court, in a five-to-four decision,
upheld the constitutionality of a federal law prohibiting so-called
"partial birth abortions" (properly described as "intact dilation and
evacuation" or "intact D & E") despite the absence of an exception to
protect the health of the woman. [...]


I myself have never heard a convincing argument for this procedure or
understood how it could be necessary to employ this procedure to
protect the health of the mother. At some point you have to classify a
fetus as being a human baby with some legal standing. When is that?

The first breath seemed to work for Jehwah in the matter of the
transformation of clay into man--is the example of the god not good
enough for you, atheist?
Through a jaundiced eye darkly--rheum with a view.
The Squeeky Wheel
http://home.comcast.net/~drdonmartin/
.

User: "Kelsey Bjarnason"

Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Justices 02 May 2007 10:24:40 AM
[snips]
On Tue, 01 May 2007 06:51:14 -0700, Davej wrote:

I myself have never heard a convincing argument for this procedure or
understood how it could be necessary to employ this procedure to
protect the health of the mother. At some point you have to classify a
fetus as being a human baby with some legal standing. When is that?

When it's old enough to vote?
<grin, duck, run>
.


User: "Codebreaker"

Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Justices 25 Apr 2007 04:23:14 PM
On Apr 24, 7:52 am,
wrote:

Our Faith-Based Justiceshttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-r-stone/ou=

r-faithbased-justice...tml
Justice has always been faith based. Divine justice is what men have
looked at for pattern. Hence the commandement "You shall not be a
false witness.

In Gonzales v. Carhart, the Supreme Court, in a five-to-four decision,
upheld the constitutionality of a federal law prohibiting so-called
"partial birth abortions" (properly described as "intact dilation and
evacuation" or "intact D & E") despite the absence of an exception to
protect the health of the woman. Gonzales reversed an earlier
decision, Stenberg v. Carhart, in which the Court had held a virtually
identical state law unconstitutional, primarily because it failed to
include an exception to protect the health of the woman.

In the majority's view, the critical difference was that in enacting
the federal law Congress made several findings to support the
legislation. The majority accepted those findings even though, as
Justice Ginsburg observed in an unusually scathing dissent, those
findings were nothing more than political nonsense.

Among Congress's clearly erroneous "findings" were its assertions that
no medical schools provide instruction on intact D & E, that intact D
& E is never necessary to safeguard the health of the woman, and that
intact D & E is less safe than alternative procedures. Each of these
"findings" was and is false. In fact, many medical schools, including
Chicago, Northwestern, Yale, Columbia, teach intact D & E; there is a
clear medical consensus that in particular circumstances intact D & E
is necessary to protect the heath of the woman; and there is a clear
medical consensus that in particular circumstances intact D & E is
safer than the alternative procedures.

It is not unusual for the Supreme Court to give deference even to
implausible legislative findings. But the findings must at least be
rational and, when a law restricts a fundamental constitutional right,
the findings must be almost unimpeachable. In this instance, every
federal court that reviewed these congressional findings rightly
described them unreasonable, unbalanced, polemical, and unsupported by
the facts.

The five justices in the majority in Gonzales have put at risk the
health of women who suffer from heart disease, uterine scarring,
bleeding disorders, compromised immune systems, and certain
pregnancy-related conditions, such as placenta previa and accreta, as
well as those women carrying fetuses with certain abnormalities, such
as severe hydocephalus. In all of these circumstances, and many
others, the use of the intact D & E is necessary to ensure the health
of the woman.

It is important to note that the prohibition of intact D & E has
nothing to do with preserving the life of a fetus. The "partial birth
abortion" law does not prohibit any abortions. Rather, it prohibits
only a particular means of performing abortions. If the woman is
willing to undergo a greater than necessary risk to her health, she
may terminate her pregnancy by other, less safe, methods. She may, for
example, have the fetus terminated by injection prior to extraction,
or removed by cesarean, or extracted by non-intact D & E (which
involves dismembering the fetus in utero).

What, then, explains this decision? Here is a painfully awkward
observation: All five justices in the majority in Gonzales are
Catholic. The four justices who are either Protestant or Jewish all
voted in accord with settled precedent. It is mortifying to have to
point this out. But it is too obvious, and too telling, to ignore.
Ultimately, the five justices in the majority all fell back on a
common argument to justify their position. There is, they say, a
compelling moral reason for the result in Gonzales. Because the intact
D & E seems to resemble infanticide it is "immoral" and may be
prohibited even without a clear statutory exception to protect the
health of the woman.

By making this judgment, these justices have failed to respect the
fundamental difference between religious belief and morality. To be
sure, this can be an elusive distinction, but in a society that values
the separation of church and state, it is fundamental. The moral
status of a fetus is a profoundly difficult and rationally
unresolvable question. As the Supreme Court has recognized for more
than thirty years, when the fundamental right of a woman "to determine
her life's course" is at stake, it is not for the state -- or for the
justices of the Supreme Court -- to resolve that question, and it is
certainly not appropriate for the state or the justices to resolve it
on the basis of one's personal religious faith.

In 1972-73, I had the privilege of serving as a law clerk to Justice
William Brennan, then the Court's only Catholic justice. It was in
that year the Court decided Roe v. Wade. Justice Brennan struggled in
that case, as he struggled in earlier cases involving such issues as
school prayers, to separate his personal religious views from his
views as a justice. He joined the decision in Roe because he believed
in the separation of church and state and because he was convinced
that his religious views must be irrelevant to his responsibilities as
a justice.

As the Court observed fifteen years ago, "Some of us as individuals
find abortion offensive to our most basic principles of morality, but
than cannot control our decision. Our obligation is to define the
liberty of all, not to mandate our own moral code." It is sad that
Justices Roberts, Scalia, Kennedy, Thomas and Alito have chosen not to
follow this example.

***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:

The Rise of the Theocratic States of Americahttp://members.tripod.com/~ca=

ndst/theocracy.htm


American Theocrats - Past and Presenthttp://members.tripod.com/~candst/th=

eocrats.htm


The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and Statehttp://member=

s=2Etripod.com/~candst/index.html


[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]

HRSepCnS =B7 Historical Reality SepChurch&Statehttp://groups.yahoo.com/gr=

oup/HRSepCnS/


***************************************************************
. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why =

"a

page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisne=

r,

256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote

"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"

That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.

It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.

*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************

.
User: "cactus"

Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Justices 25 Apr 2007 05:07:21 PM
Codebreaker wrote:

On Apr 24, 7:52 am,

wrote:

Our Faith-Based Justiceshttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-r-stone/our-faithbased-justice...tml



Justice has always been faith based. Divine justice is what men have
looked at for pattern. Hence the commandement "You shall not be a
false witness.


That commandment is against perjury.
<snip>
.
User: "Codebreaker"

Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Justices 27 Apr 2007 10:22:19 AM
On Apr 25, 6:07 pm, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:

Codebreaker wrote:

On Apr 24, 7:52 am,

wrote:

Our Faith-Based Justiceshttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-r-stone/our-faithbased-justice...


Justice has always been faith based. Divine justice is what men have
looked at for pattern. Hence the commandement "You shall not be a
false witness.


That commandment is against perjury.

Your point is
You stupid jewish *****??


<snip>

.
User: "cactus"

Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Justices 29 Apr 2007 03:34:46 PM
Codebreaker wrote:

On Apr 25, 6:07 pm, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:

Codebreaker wrote:

On Apr 24, 7:52 am,

wrote:

Our Faith-Based Justiceshttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-r-stone/our-faithbased-justice...

Justice has always been faith based. Divine justice is what men have
looked at for pattern. Hence the commandement "You shall not be a
false witness.

That commandment is against perjury.


Your point is

I was explaining the meaning of the quote. You clearly did not
understand it.
.
User: "Codebreaker"

Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Justices 29 Apr 2007 06:28:25 PM
On Apr 29, 4:34 pm, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:

Codebreaker wrote:

On Apr 25, 6:07 pm, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:

Codebreaker wrote:

On Apr 24, 7:52 am,

wrote:

Our Faith-Based Justiceshttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-r-stone/our-faithbased-justice...

Justice has always been faith based. Divine justice is what men have
looked at for pattern. Hence the commandement "You shall not be a
false witness.

That commandment is against perjury.


Your point is


I was explaining the meaning of the quote. You clearly did not
understand it.

***** you son a jewish *****
.
User: "cactus"

Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Justices 29 Apr 2007 06:36:12 PM
Codebreaker wrote:

On Apr 29, 4:34 pm, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:

Codebreaker wrote:

On Apr 25, 6:07 pm, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:

Codebreaker wrote:

On Apr 24, 7:52 am,

wrote:

Our Faith-Based Justiceshttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-r-stone/our-faithbased-justice...

Justice has always been faith based. Divine justice is what men have
looked at for pattern. Hence the commandement "You shall not be a
false witness.

That commandment is against perjury.

Your point is

I was explaining the meaning of the quote. You clearly did not
understand it.



***** you son a jewish *****

I was trying to provide some information, and you come back with a petty
schoolyard jibe. You clearly lack the intelligence to learn or do
anything besides spout ignorance and hatred.
Pitiful.
.
User: "Codebreaker"

Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Justices 30 Apr 2007 01:34:36 PM
On Apr 29, 7:36 pm, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:

Codebreaker wrote:

On Apr 29, 4:34 pm, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:

Codebreaker wrote:

On Apr 25, 6:07 pm, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:

Codebreaker wrote:

On Apr 24, 7:52 am,

wrote:

Our Faith-Based Justiceshttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-r-stone/our-faithbased-justice...

Justice has always been faith based. Divine justice is what men have
looked at for pattern. Hence the commandement "You shall not be a
false witness.

That commandment is against perjury.

Your point is

I was explaining the meaning of the quote. You clearly did not
understand it.


***** you son a jewish *****


I was trying to provide some information, and you come back with a petty
schoolyard jibe. You clearly lack the intelligence to learn or do
anything besides spout ignorance and hatred.

I was trying to do this and that and touch this and that....
Don't you get tired finding lame excuses
you stupid jew?
Why did you fail to provide those information in the first palce


Pitiful.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

.
User: "cactus"

Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Justices 30 Apr 2007 02:02:23 PM
Codebreaker wrote:

On Apr 29, 7:36 pm, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:

Codebreaker wrote:

On Apr 29, 4:34 pm, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:

Codebreaker wrote:

On Apr 25, 6:07 pm, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:

Codebreaker wrote:

On Apr 24, 7:52 am,

wrote:

Our Faith-Based Justiceshttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-r-stone/our-faithbased-justice...

Justice has always been faith based. Divine justice is what men have
looked at for pattern. Hence the commandement "You shall not be a
false witness.

That commandment is against perjury.

Your point is

I was explaining the meaning of the quote. You clearly did not
understand it.

***** you son a jewish *****

I was trying to provide some information, and you come back with a petty
schoolyard jibe. You clearly lack the intelligence to learn or do
anything besides spout ignorance and hatred.



I was trying to do this and that and touch this and that....
Don't you get tired finding lame excuses
you stupid jew?
Why did you fail to provide those information in the first palce


Pitiful.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



Because I thought that reasonably educated people of reasonable
intelligence would understand that. Apparently it is not possible to
insult either your education or your brains.
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Justices 30 Apr 2007 02:46:03 PM
On Apr 30, 3:02 pm, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:

Codebreaker wrote:

On Apr 29, 7:36 pm, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:

Codebreaker wrote:

On Apr 29, 4:34 pm, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:

Codebreaker wrote:

On Apr 25, 6:07 pm, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:

Codebreaker wrote:

On Apr 24, 7:52 am,

wrote:

Our Faith-Based Justiceshttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-r-stone/our-faithbased-justice...

Justice has always been faith based. Divine justice is what men have
looked at for pattern. Hence the commandement "You shall not be a
false witness.

That commandment is against perjury.

Your point is

I was explaining the meaning of the quote. You clearly did not
understand it.

***** you son a jewish *****

I was trying to provide some information, and you come back with a petty
schoolyard jibe. You clearly lack the intelligence to learn or do
anything besides spout ignorance and hatred.


I was trying to do this and that and touch this and that....
Don't you get tired finding lame excuses
you stupid jew?
Why did you fail to provide those information in the first palce


Pitiful.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Because I thought that reasonably educated people of reasonable
intelligence would understand that. Apparently it is not possible to
insult either your education or your brains.- Hide quoted text -

We heard that nonsense before. Equate education with
indoctrination in evolution
or atheism all you want but it won't impresse us anymore.
WE ARE NOLONGER INTIMIDATED


- Show quoted text -

.
User: "cactus"

Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Justices 30 Apr 2007 03:12:06 PM
wrote:

On Apr 30, 3:02 pm, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:

Codebreaker wrote:

On Apr 29, 7:36 pm, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:

Codebreaker wrote:

On Apr 29, 4:34 pm, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:

Codebreaker wrote:

On Apr 25, 6:07 pm, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:

Codebreaker wrote:

On Apr 24, 7:52 am,

wrote:

Our Faith-Based Justiceshttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-r-stone/our-faithbased-justice...

Justice has always been faith based. Divine justice is what men have
looked at for pattern. Hence the commandement "You shall not be a
false witness.

That commandment is against perjury.

Your point is

I was explaining the meaning of the quote. You clearly did not
understand it.

***** you son a jewish *****

I was trying to provide some information, and you come back with a petty
schoolyard jibe. You clearly lack the intelligence to learn or do
anything besides spout ignorance and hatred.

I was trying to do this and that and touch this and that....
Don't you get tired finding lame excuses
you stupid jew?
Why did you fail to provide those information in the first palce

Pitiful.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Because I thought that reasonably educated people of reasonable
intelligence would understand that. Apparently it is not possible to
insult either your education or your brains.- Hide quoted text -



We heard that nonsense before. Equate education with
indoctrination in evolution
or atheism all you want but it won't impresse us anymore.
WE ARE NOLONGER INTIMIDATED

Facts and truth never did. You aren't intimidated by a ridiculously
short and no doubt chaotic attention span either - did you see what I
was referring to?


- Show quoted text -



.
User: "Codebreaker"

Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Justices 30 Apr 2007 07:29:29 PM
On Apr 30, 4:12 pm, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:


We heard that nonsense before. Equate education with
indoctrination in evolution
or atheism all you want but it won't impresse us anymore.
WE ARE NOLONGER INTIMIDATED


Facts and truth never did. You aren't intimidated by a ridiculously
short and no doubt chaotic attention span either - did you see what I
was referring to?

Here is a guy who should be hiding now wants to have his say in our
debate.
Does the Constitution give rights to Jews also or should we just
persecute them?




- Show quoted text -

.
User: "cactus"

Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Justices 30 Apr 2007 08:09:05 PM
Codebreaker wrote:

On Apr 30, 4:12 pm, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:

We heard that nonsense before. Equate education with
indoctrination in evolution
or atheism all you want but it won't impresse us anymore.
WE ARE NOLONGER INTIMIDATED

Facts and truth never did. You aren't intimidated by a ridiculously
short and no doubt chaotic attention span either - did you see what I
was referring to?



Here is a guy who should be hiding now wants to have his say in our
debate.
Does the Constitution give rights to Jews also or should we just
persecute them?

It does give us the same rights as it gives anyone else. You don't have
to like it.







- Show quoted text -



.
User: ""

Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Justices 30 Apr 2007 08:19:09 PM
On Apr 30, 9:09 pm, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:

Codebreaker wrote:

On Apr 30, 4:12 pm, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:


We heard that nonsense before. Equate education with
indoctrination in evolution
or atheism all you want but it won't impresse us anymore.
WE ARE NOLONGER INTIMIDATED

Facts and truth never did. You aren't intimidated by a ridiculously
short and no doubt chaotic attention span either - did you see what I
was referring to?


Here is a guy who should be hiding now wants to have his say in our
debate.
Does the Constitution give rights to Jews also or should we just
persecute them?


It does give us the same rights as it gives anyone else. You don't have
to like it.

Yet I can still KICK your fucking jewish ***** despite the Constitution




- Show quoted text -

.
User: "cactus"

Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Justices 30 Apr 2007 10:48:12 PM
wrote:

On Apr 30, 9:09 pm, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:

Codebreaker wrote:

On Apr 30, 4:12 pm, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:

We heard that nonsense before. Equate education with
indoctrination in evolution
or atheism all you want but it won't impresse us anymore.
WE ARE NOLONGER INTIMIDATED

Facts and truth never did. You aren't intimidated by a ridiculously
short and no doubt chaotic attention span either - did you see what I
was referring to?

Here is a guy who should be hiding now wants to have his say in our
debate.
Does the Constitution give rights to Jews also or should we just
persecute them?

It does give us the same rights as it gives anyone else. You don't have
to like it.


Yet I can still KICK your fucking jewish ***** despite the Constitution

Big deal, anyone can get mugged. And if that's how you get your rocks
off, reprising your days as a schoolyard bully, enjoy. Just don't get
caught.
.



User: "Cary Kittrell"

Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Justices 30 Apr 2007 07:31:20 PM
In article <1177979369.298376.116400@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> Codebreaker <Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> writes:

On Apr 30, 4:12 pm, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:


We heard that nonsense before. Equate education with
indoctrination in evolution
or atheism all you want but it won't impresse us anymore.
WE ARE NOLONGER INTIMIDATED


Facts and truth never did. You aren't intimidated by a ridiculously
short and no doubt chaotic attention span either - did you see what I
was referring to?



Here is a guy who should be hiding now wants to have his say in our
debate.
Does the Constitution give rights to Jews also or should we just
persecute them?

The Constitution gives him the right to point out any number
of unpleasant truths about you.
Pretty easy to see why you despise it so.
-- cary
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Justices 30 Apr 2007 08:18:04 PM
On Apr 30, 8:31 pm,
(Cary Kittrell) wrote:

In article <1177979369.298376.116...@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> Codebreaker <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> writes:



On Apr 30, 4:12 pm, cactus <b...@nonespam.com> wrote:


We heard that nonsense before. Equate education with
indoctrination in evolution
or atheism all you want but it won't impresse us anymore.
WE ARE NOLONGER INTIMIDATED


Facts and truth never did. You aren't intimidated by a ridiculously
short and no doubt chaotic attention span either - did you see what I
was referring to?


Here is a guy who should be hiding now wants to have his say in our
debate.
Does the Constitution give rights to Jews also or should we just
persecute them?


The Constitution gives him the right to point out any number
of unpleasant truths about you.

Pretty easy to see why you despise it so.

-- cary

To hell with the Constitution then
.












User: "Cary Kittrell"

Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Justices 25 Apr 2007 04:34:19 PM
In article <1177536194.545008.279010@u32g2000prd.googlegroups.com> Codebreaker <Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> writes:

On Apr 24, 7:52 am,

wrote:

Our Faith-Based Justiceshttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-r-stone/ou=

r-faithbased-justice...tml


Justice has always been faith based. Divine justice is what men have
looked at for pattern. Hence the commandement "You shall not be a
false witness.

So, what does divine justice say about acceptable noise levels? Insider
trading? Air pollution? Running a stoplight? Littering?
-- cary
.
User: "Jeff Strickland"

Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Justices 25 Apr 2007 04:54:02 PM
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:f0ohgr$o19$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...

In article <1177536194.545008.279010@u32g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Codebreaker <Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> writes:

On Apr 24, 7:52 am,

wrote:

Our Faith-Based
Justiceshttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-r-stone/ou=

r-faithbased-justice...tml


Justice has always been faith based. Divine justice is what men have
looked at for pattern. Hence the commandement "You shall not be a
false witness.


So, what does divine justice say about acceptable noise levels? Insider
trading? Air pollution? Running a stoplight? Littering?


That has to be the stupidest question you have ever asked.
.
User: "Cary Kittrell"

Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Justices 25 Apr 2007 05:43:26 PM
"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net>



"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:f0ohgr$o19$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...

In article <1177536194.545008.279010@u32g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Codebreaker <Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> writes:

On Apr 24, 7:52 am,

wrote:

Our Faith-Based
Justiceshttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-r-stone/ou=

r-faithbased-justice...tml


Justice has always been faith based. Divine justice is what men have
looked at for pattern. Hence the commandement "You shall not be a
false witness.


So, what does divine justice say about acceptable noise levels? Insider
trading? Air pollution? Running a stoplight? Littering?




That has to be the stupidest question you have ever asked.

Well, what can I say? `Codebreaker', with his own homebrew
hybrid of Islam and Christianity, his personal visitation
from Jesus in Atlanta some years back, his insistence that
the "American Atheist-Secularistic Constitution" should be replaced
with "Mohammed's Apostolic Constitution" the Ten Cmmandments, and
Sharia law -- and most of all, his undying hatred of "pig-Jews" --
well, silliness just calls out to silliness.
(we'll skip over his contempt for the court-ordered instructer
who told him you can't beat your wife...)
But I'm not entirely whimsical here: if we need to replace our
"atheistic secular" laws with law inspired by Islam and
Christianity, then what do Allah and company say about
insider trading?
- cary
.

User: "Gray Shockley"

Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Justices 26 Apr 2007 12:20:51 AM
On Apr 25, 2007, Jeff Strickland wrote
(in article <_5QXh.4007$nR1.1855@trnddc06>):


"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:f0ohgr$o19$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...

In article <1177536194.545008.279010@u32g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Codebreaker <Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> writes:

On Apr 24, 7:52 am,

wrote:

Our Faith-Based
Justiceshttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-r-stone/ou=

r-faithbased-justice...tml


Justice has always been faith based. Divine justice is what men have
looked at for pattern. Hence the commandement "You shall not be a
false witness.


So, what does divine justice say about acceptable noise levels? Insider
trading? Air pollution? Running a stoplight? Littering?




That has to be the stupidest question you have ever asked.

Which means that you should have
at least /tried/ to answer it.
Too far above your intelligence level
and rational thinking ability, eh?
Gray Shockley
-------------------------------------
CAESAR (recovering his self-possession).
Pardon him. Theodotus: he is a barbarian,
and thinks that the customs of his tribe
and island are the laws of nature.
- George Bernard Shaw
Caesar and Cleopatra (1898)
.
User: "Jeff Strickland"

Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Justices 26 Apr 2007 12:47:12 PM
"Gray Shockley" <grayshockley@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C255A0E3002F51EDF0182648@news.giganews.com...

On Apr 25, 2007, Jeff Strickland wrote
(in article <_5QXh.4007$nR1.1855@trnddc06>):


"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:f0ohgr$o19$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...

In article <1177536194.545008.279010@u32g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Codebreaker <Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> writes:

On Apr 24, 7:52 am,

wrote:

Our Faith-Based
Justiceshttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-r-stone/ou=

r-faithbased-justice...tml


Justice has always been faith based. Divine justice is what men have
looked at for pattern. Hence the commandement "You shall not be a
false witness.


So, what does divine justice say about acceptable noise levels? Insider
trading? Air pollution? Running a stoplight? Littering?




That has to be the stupidest question you have ever asked.



Which means that you should have
at least /tried/ to answer it.

Too far above your intelligence level
and rational thinking ability, eh?


No, it's too far below my threshold of stupidity to warrant a reply beyond
how stupid it is.
.


User: "Don Martin"

Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Justices 25 Apr 2007 06:19:14 PM
On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 21:54:02 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
<crwlr@verizon.net> wrote:


"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:f0ohgr$o19$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...

In article <1177536194.545008.279010@u32g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Codebreaker <Codebreaker@bigsecret.com> writes:

On Apr 24, 7:52 am,

wrote:

Our Faith-Based
Justiceshttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-r-stone/ou=

r-faithbased-justice...tml


Justice has always been faith based. Divine justice is what men have
looked at for pattern. Hence the commandement "You shall not be a
false witness.


So, what does divine justice say about acceptable noise levels? Insider
trading? Air pollution? Running a stoplight? Littering?




That has to be the stupidest question you have ever asked.


Either that, or this has to be the stupidest comment you've ever made.
A _real_ (that is, in existence) divinity would have real concerns
about these things, an awareness your cardboard cutout god lacks
utterly.

Through a jaundiced eye darkly--rheum with a view.
The Squeeky Wheel
http://home.comcast.net/~drdonmartin/
.


User: "Codebreaker"

Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Justices 27 Apr 2007 10:20:51 AM
On Apr 25, 5:34 pm,
(Cary Kittrell) wrote:

In article <1177536194.545008.279...@u32g2000prd.googlegroups.com> Codebreaker <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> writes:

On Apr 24, 7:52 am,

wrote:

Our Faith-Based Justiceshttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-r-stone/ou=

r-faithbased-justice...tml


Justice has always been faith based. Divine justice is what men have
looked at for pattern. Hence the commandement "You shall not be a
false witness.


So, what does divine justice say about acceptable noise levels? Insider
trading? Air pollution? Running a stoplight? Littering?

"Everything is permissible but not everything beneficial." Paul
"The letter kills but the spirit give life." Jesus
From that Lawmakers can legislate with confidence and some did
brilliantly.
Chien-tists like you are likely to expect to find the word pollution
in the
Bible


-- cary

.


User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Justices 25 Apr 2007 08:30:45 PM
On 25 Apr 2007 14:23:14 -0700, Codebreaker <Codebreaker@bigsecret.com>
wrote:

Justice has always been faith based. Divine justice is what men have
looked at for pattern. Hence the commandement "You shall not be a
false witness.

The Romans required truth in witnesses long before Christianity. Loop
up what "testify" means.
.
User: "Codebreaker"

Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Justices 27 Apr 2007 10:26:26 AM
On Apr 25, 9:30 pm, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:

On 25 Apr 2007 14:23:14 -0700, Codebreaker <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com>
wrote:

Justice has always been faith based. Divine justice is what men have
looked at for pattern. Hence the commandement "You shall not be a
false witness.


The Romans required truth in witnesses long before Christianity. Loop
up what "testify" means.

Hence Paul insistance that Jewish Law should not be exported to
the Gentiles.
"If the Greeks who doesn't know the Law of Moses act according
to its requirement, they are proving that they are the Law for
themselves." Paul
Now shut your ***** up
.
User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Justices 27 Apr 2007 01:27:45 PM
On 27 Apr 2007 08:26:26 -0700, Codebreaker <Codebreaker@bigsecret.com>
wrote:

On Apr 25, 9:30 pm, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:

On 25 Apr 2007 14:23:14 -0700, Codebreaker <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com>
wrote:

Justice has always been faith based. Divine justice is what men have
looked at for pattern. Hence the commandement "You shall not be a
false witness.


The Romans required truth in witnesses long before Christianity. Loop
up what "testify" means.


Hence Paul

The Romans required truth in witnesses long before Paul was born, so
Paul is irrelevant to the discussion.
.
User: "Codebreaker"

Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Justices 28 Apr 2007 10:49:15 AM
On Apr 27, 2:27 pm, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:

On 27 Apr 2007 08:26:26 -0700, Codebreaker <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com>
wrote:

On Apr 25, 9:30 pm, Al Klein <ruk...@pern.invalid> wrote:

On 25 Apr 2007 14:23:14 -0700, Codebreaker <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com>
wrote:


Justice has always been faith based. Divine justice is what men have
looked at for pattern. Hence the commandement "You shall not be a
false witness.


The Romans required truth in witnesses long before Christianity. Loop
up what "testify" means.


Hence Paul


The Romans required truth in witnesses long before Paul was born, so
Paul is irrelevant to the discussion.

Yet Moses is not. The Law of Moses predates the Roman Republic Ok?
.






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