| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"maff" |
| Date: |
09 Jul 2005 04:13:20 PM |
| Object: |
Our Faith-Based Train Rides |
Our Faith-Based Train Rides
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/09/opinion/09vowell.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1786.8674
By SARAH VOWELL
Does it really make sense for Wyoming to get more money per resident
from the Homeland Security Department than New York?
Let's Have This Fight
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/08/AR2005070801685.html
http://forums.delphiforums.com/atheistrefuge/messages?msg=1791.6659
By E. J. Dionne Jr.
Saturday, July 9, 2005; Page A15
Should a temporary majority of 50.7 percent have control over the
entire United States government? Should 49.3 percent of Americans have
no influence over the nation's trajectory for the next generation?
The Road to Riches
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/5ba95f4634dec9cd
and thread
The Road to Riches
http://tinyurl.com/55nzo
A Blueprint for the Future
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/59c28cd6dfe6f60f
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Train Rides |
11 Jul 2005 08:30:11 AM |
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On 9 Jul 2005 14:13:20 -0700, "maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote:
Should a temporary majority of 50.7 percent have control over the
entire United States government? Should 49.3 percent of Americans have
no influence over the nation's trajectory for the next generation?
Many people died so that we could have religious freedom in this
country. That means if people want to approach God in some way,
no atheists have the right to impose their religious beliefs on them
and prevent them from doing so. My nephew said they aren't even
allowed to say Christmas at school, because it offends some damn
maniacal atheistic religious freaks! Who in the ***** are these freaks
to impose such grotesque religious restrictions, in a country that was
founded in large part on freedom of religion? Why are they allowed
to contaminate the freedom of this country because of their personal
religious problems??? If they have a problem with freedom of religion
then they need to go someplace where there is none, not ***** it up
here for everybody else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| User: "boikat" |
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| Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Train Rides |
11 Jul 2005 09:01:44 AM |
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<dh@.> wrote in message news:dis4d191lg81ifpnadl0i88qolfc76db9v@4ax.com...
On 9 Jul 2005 14:13:20 -0700, "maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote:
Should a temporary majority of 50.7 percent have control over the
entire United States government? Should 49.3 percent of Americans have
no influence over the nation's trajectory for the next generation?
Many people died so that we could have religious freedom in this
country. That means if people want to approach God in some way,
no atheists have the right to impose their religious beliefs on them
and prevent them from doing so.
It also means that non-believers have the right to not be "outed" for not
believing, doesn't it?
My nephew said they aren't even
allowed to say Christmas at school, because it offends some damn
maniacal atheistic religious freaks!
"Atheistic religious freak"? Okay, some atheists wear their atheism with
the same "religious" zeal as an NFL Cowboy fan...
Who in the ***** are these freaks
to impose such grotesque religious restrictions, in a country that was
founded in large part on freedom of religion?
The same freaks that diesd for religious freadoms you are yammering about.
Why are they allowed
to contaminate the freedom of this country because of their personal
religious problems???
And who gives the right to *any* religious extreamist to impose their
beliefs on everyone else? Then there is the baggage of "belonging", as in
"If you don't believe in *MY* religion, you don't belong".
If they have a problem with freedom of religion
then they need to go someplace where there is none, not ***** it up
here for everybody
else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Exactly what I said above, "If you don't accept *my* religion, go away, we
don't want you".
I can only hope that this was a parody, and I just got spoofed. Parody?
Well, the number of "!!!!" is sort of a tip-off to either parody or
net.loonacy...
Boikat
--
<42><
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Train Rides |
11 Jul 2005 01:24:15 PM |
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On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 09:01:44 -0500, "boikat" <boikat@bellsouth.net> wrote:
<dh@.> wrote in message news:dis4d191lg81ifpnadl0i88qolfc76db9v@4ax.com...
On 9 Jul 2005 14:13:20 -0700, "maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote:
Should a temporary majority of 50.7 percent have control over the
entire United States government? Should 49.3 percent of Americans have
no influence over the nation's trajectory for the next generation?
Many people died so that we could have religious freedom in this
country. That means if people want to approach God in some way,
no atheists have the right to impose their religious beliefs on them
and prevent them from doing so.
It also means that non-believers have the right to not be "outed" for not
believing, doesn't it?
Outed from what?
My nephew said they aren't even
allowed to say Christmas at school, because it offends some damn
maniacal atheistic religious freaks!
"Atheistic religious freak"?
Right. Are you pretending atheism isn't a religious belief?
Okay, some atheists wear their atheism with
the same "religious" zeal as an NFL Cowboy fan...
Who in the ***** are these freaks
to impose such grotesque religious restrictions, in a country that was
founded in large part on freedom of religion?
The same freaks that diesd for religious freadoms you are yammering about.
Wrong. Here's a clue as to why: they died, and for a different reason.
Why are they allowed
to contaminate the freedom of this country because of their personal
religious problems???
And who gives the right to *any* religious extreamist to impose their
beliefs on everyone else? Then there is the baggage of "belonging", as in
"If you don't believe in *MY* religion, you don't belong".
Why would you want to belong to a group you who's beliefs you don't
believe in? I'm not opposed to Muslims, but I don't share their ways or
beliefs so I don't much want to hang out with them.
If they have a problem with freedom of religion
then they need to go someplace where there is none, not ***** it up
here for everybody
else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Exactly what I said above, "If you don't accept *my* religion, go away, we
don't want you".
Oh well dude. Leave them alone then.
I can only hope that this was a parody, and I just got spoofed.
Surely you're shitting me? Or trying? There is no doubt that atheistic
religious maniacs have taken away a significant amount of religious
freedom from people who don't share their religious beliefs.
Parody?
Reality. *****, when people can't even acknowledge Christ
at Christmas, a severe and unacceptably insane religious restriction
has definitely been imposed. How much more insane could it be?
I can't think of any way to be more insane about it. Can you?
Well, the number of "!!!!" is sort of a tip-off to either parody or
net.loonacy...
Boikat
It's far from being as insane as preventing people from
acknowledging why they are getting a week or two off from school,
and/or work. I'm completely justified in having a tremendous feeling
of resentment resulting from the insane restrictions imposed because
of the paranoia (or whatever mental illness it is) of atheists who are
upset about the way things are.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Train Rides |
14 Jul 2005 10:21:41 AM |
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dh@. wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 09:01:44 -0500, "boikat" <boikat@bellsouth.net> wrote:
<dh@.> wrote in message news:dis4d191lg81ifpnadl0i88qolfc76db9v@4ax.com...
On 9 Jul 2005 14:13:20 -0700, "maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote:
Should a temporary majority of 50.7 percent have control over the
entire United States government? Should 49.3 percent of Americans have
no influence over the nation's trajectory for the next generation?
Many people died so that we could have religious freedom in this
country. That means if people want to approach God in some way,
no atheists have the right to impose their religious beliefs on them
and prevent them from doing so.
It also means that non-believers have the right to not be "outed" for not
believing, doesn't it?
Outed from what?
Some folks just want to go thru most of their life without strangers
coming up to them and telling them how hateful they are. It's not that
all gays or atheists or spinsters or Red Sox fans are ashamed; it's
just that we want to eat lunch or go to school or fix computers or
teach algebra or whatever without other folks getting in our faces and
telling us off.
My nephew said they aren't even
allowed to say Christmas at school, because it offends some damn
maniacal atheistic religious freaks!
"Atheistic religious freak"?
Right. Are you pretending atheism isn't a religious belief?
Ummm... yes. Are you pretending that baldness is a hair style?
Is sitting in a couch watching TV exercise?
Is fasting eating?
Is renting an apartment paying for a house?
Okay, some atheists wear their atheism with
the same "religious" zeal as an NFL Cowboy fan...
Who in the ***** are these freaks
to impose such grotesque religious restrictions, in a country that was
founded in large part on freedom of religion?
The same freaks that diesd for religious freadoms you are yammering about.
Wrong. Here's a clue as to why: they died, and for a different reason.
"Sarge, before we charge that machine gun nest, I just want to tell you
that I'm doing this for freedom of speech, and the right to vote, and
the right to bear arms, and freedom of the press, but I'm not doing it
for freedom of religion."
Why are they allowed
to contaminate the freedom of this country because of their personal
religious problems???
And who gives the right to *any* religious extreamist to impose their
beliefs on everyone else? Then there is the baggage of "belonging", as in
"If you don't believe in *MY* religion, you don't belong".
Why would you want to belong to a group you who's beliefs you don't
believe in? I'm not opposed to Muslims, but I don't share their ways or
beliefs so I don't much want to hang out with them.
I practice martial arts. One of my teachers is a new-age kind of
Christian, the other is evangelical. Neither has any trouble with my
atheism. I don't know what most of my fellow students are; the subject
doesn't come up. I frequent a bonsai club; I have no idea what thos
efolks are, except gardeners. My daughter is a math nerd and a jazz
pianist; she belongs to two social groups. They run a *wise range of
philosphical and religious views.
Are you saying that you only associate with people after they pass your
religious litmus test? You have no hobbies, no problems, no
professional interests, no regional concerns which lead you to
associate with others?
If they have a problem with freedom of religion
then they need to go someplace where there is none, not ***** it up
here for everybody
else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Exactly what I said above, "If you don't accept *my* religion, go away, we
don't want you".
Oh well dude. Leave them alone then.
I think he was rephrasing the previous stement.
I can only hope that this was a parody, and I just got spoofed.
Surely you're shitting me? Or trying? There is no doubt that atheistic
religious maniacs have taken away a significant amount of religious
freedom from people who don't share their religious beliefs.
<sigh>
Atheism is not religion.
Most atheists are not fanatics, there are damn few of those. Name
three.
If any kid really can't say "Christmas" in a public school (which
sounds unlikely), it would be the work of a timid school board, not any
atheist. Probably the truth behind that story (if there was ever any
truth to it), is that a school was told to tone down there religous
celebrations come winter holidays.
Parody?
Reality. *****, when people can't even acknowledge Christ
at Christmas,
"People" can. *Schools can't. Can people celebrate Ramadan in the US?
Sure. Can schools impose Ramadan readings and fasting? No. Do you have
a problem with that?
a severe and unacceptably insane religious restriction
has definitely been imposed.
You have got to be kidding. Public schools cannot impose religious
holidays. Individuals have no trouble celebrating. In those few
instances where schools went overboard, in stamping out individuals
statements and celebrations, they were admonished by the courts.
For instance, kids are allowed to wear religious-themed shirts. They
are not allowed to pass out religious literature in class.
How much more insane could it be?
I can't think of any way to be more insane about it. Can you?
It's not insane. Over the top, for example, would be unreasonable
restrictions on religious symbols and clothing practices - i.e. teling
Muslim girls in public schools that they can't wear head scarves, as
they have recently done in France.
Well, the number of "!!!!" is sort of a tip-off to either parody or
net.loonacy...
Boikat
It's far from being as insane as preventing people from
acknowledging why they are getting a week or two off from school,
?
Are you seriously suggesting that people are not allowed to say
"Religious holiday" when taking vacation time from work? Cites, please.
If this is true, it's over the top and illegal. But I don't believe
you.
You come across as the type to believe any urban legend which
reinforces your paranoia.
and/or work. I'm completely justified in having a tremendous feeling
of resentment resulting from the insane restrictions imposed because
of the paranoia (or whatever mental illness it is) of atheists who are
upset about the way things are.
Name one politican who has been elected in the US after admitting
he/she was an atheist.
Kermit
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| User: "655321" |
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| Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Train Rides |
24 Jul 2005 03:35:32 AM |
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On 2005-07-11 06:30:11 -0700, dh@. said:
My nephew said they aren't even
allowed to say Christmas at school
Yeah, right.
--
GlennGlenn (655321) -- aa#825 --
"Genocide is used sparingly by God in only extreme circumstances." -Jim Spaza
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| User: "scooter" |
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| Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Train Rides |
11 Jul 2005 09:17:48 AM |
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dh@. wrote:
On 9 Jul 2005 14:13:20 -0700, "maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote:
Should a temporary majority of 50.7 percent have control over the
entire United States government? Should 49.3 percent of Americans have
no influence over the nation's trajectory for the next generation?
Many people died so that we could have religious freedom in this
country. That means if people want to approach God in some way,
no atheists have the right to impose their religious beliefs on them
and prevent them from doing so. My nephew said they aren't even
allowed to say Christmas at school, because it offends some damn
maniacal atheistic religious freaks! Who in the ***** are these freaks
to impose such grotesque religious restrictions, in a country that was
founded in large part on freedom of religion? Why are they allowed
to contaminate the freedom of this country because of their personal
religious problems??? If they have a problem with freedom of religion
then they need to go someplace where there is none, not ***** it up
here for everybody else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Religious freedom is fine. Promoting a particular kind of religion in a
public forum is not. Public schools are paid for by tax paying citizens
who are not all christians. Many people died to escape the tyranny of a
government sponsered religion[s]. You have no right to demand your
christian philosophy be taught in public school. If you don't like it,
I suggest you move to another country where christian theocracy is the
rule.
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| User: "Herb Huston" |
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| Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Train Rides |
11 Jul 2005 11:11:25 AM |
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In article <1121091468.053586.278810@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
scooter <kwills@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
}dh@. wrote:
}> Many people died so that we could have religious freedom in this
}> country. That means if people want to approach God in some way,
}> no atheists have the right to impose their religious beliefs on them
}> and prevent them from doing so. My nephew said they aren't even
}> allowed to say Christmas at school, because it offends some damn
}> maniacal atheistic religious freaks! Who in the ***** are these freaks
}> to impose such grotesque religious restrictions, in a country that was
}> founded in large part on freedom of religion? Why are they allowed
}> to contaminate the freedom of this country because of their personal
}> religious problems??? If they have a problem with freedom of religion
}> then they need to go someplace where there is none, not ***** it up
}> here for everybody
}else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
}
}Religious freedom is fine. Promoting a particular kind of religion in a
}public forum is not. Public schools are paid for by tax paying citizens
}who are not all christians. Many people died to escape the tyranny of a
}government sponsered religion[s]. You have no right to demand your
}christian philosophy be taught in public school. If you don't like it,
}I suggest you move to another country where christian theocracy is the
}rule.
Or he can just wait for a few years right here in the U.S.A. If he's in
Kansas or Texas, he might not even have to wait that long.
--
-- Herb Huston
--
-- http://www.radix.net/~huston
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| User: "Andrew Arensburger" |
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| Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Train Rides |
15 Jul 2005 05:48:17 PM |
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In talk.origins scooter <kwills@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
Religious freedom is fine. Promoting a particular kind of religion in a
public forum is not.
Correction: religious freedom is fine.
Promoting a particular kind of religion whether in a public
forum or in private is fine.
Promoting a religion by people who happen to work for the
government is fine.
Promoting either a particular religion or religion in general,
by people who work for the government, while in their capacity as
government employees: Not OK.
IOW, citizen Roy Moore can be a loudmouthed fundie redneck
proselytizer. But *Judge* Moore can't say that religion is better than
atheism.
--
Andrew Arensburger, Systems guy University of Maryland
arensb.no-bloody-spam@umd.edu Office of Information Technology
Hit L1-A to continue:
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Train Rides |
11 Jul 2005 10:51:02 AM |
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On 11 Jul 2005 07:17:48 -0700, "scooter" <kwills@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
dh@. wrote:
On 9 Jul 2005 14:13:20 -0700, "maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote:
Should a temporary majority of 50.7 percent have control over the
entire United States government? Should 49.3 percent of Americans have
no influence over the nation's trajectory for the next generation?
Many people died so that we could have religious freedom in this
country. That means if people want to approach God in some way,
no atheists have the right to impose their religious beliefs on them
and prevent them from doing so. My nephew said they aren't even
allowed to say Christmas at school, because it offends some damn
maniacal atheistic religious freaks! Who in the ***** are these freaks
to impose such grotesque religious restrictions, in a country that was
founded in large part on freedom of religion? Why are they allowed
to contaminate the freedom of this country because of their personal
religious problems??? If they have a problem with freedom of religion
then they need to go someplace where there is none, not ***** it up
here for everybody else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Religious freedom is fine.
You can't deny it and say it's fine at the same time...well, you can
and apparenty are, but it's obviously *****.
Promoting a particular kind of religion in a
public forum is not.
LOL!!! Well, you just admitted that you really don't believe religious
freedom is fine, so like I pointed out your original declaration amounts
to nothing but *****.
Public schools are paid for by tax paying citizens
who are not all christians. Many people died to escape the tyranny of a
government sponsered religion[s]. You have no right to demand your
christian philosophy be taught in public school.
True. And even more true: no one has a right to demand that religious
beliefs are not allowed to be taught or recognised in public school, so
why are atheistic religious paranoid freaks being allowed to restrict normal
people because of their insane religious beliefs?
If you don't like it,
I suggest you move to another country where christian theocracy is the
rule.
You're suggesting that if people don't like the influence that atheists
are imposing on their lives because of the atheists' insane religious paranoia,
they should move to a country that imposes some other religious beliefs.
This country was founded on religious freedom, not on maniacal atheistic
restrictions. Atheists are getting away with imposing their religious problems
on everyone else, which is the sort of thing this country was founded in
large part to escape from. Atheists have contaminated our country with
their religious problems, and there is no doubt about it. AND!!! Some tax
paying citizens very much resent the influence that their contamination
has produced...those of us who valued what used to be our religious
freedom before the atheists managed to restrict it. I'm surprised the
Jews and Muslims aren't ***** about it too, or do atheists only
restrict Christian beliefs? And while the half-***** bastards are busy
restricting things related to Christianity, are they trying to remove Easter,
Christmas and Thanksgiving as holidays? Surely atheists want to prevent
anything public that could be considered a form of thanks to God, for
providing such a wonderful country for them to ***** up.
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| User: "Dana Tweedy" |
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| Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Train Rides |
11 Jul 2005 02:32:56 PM |
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<dh@.> wrote in message news:4b55d1lu8v991tnrroqs82kkn5r9ui6b2a@4ax.com...
snipping
Religious freedom is fine.
You can't deny it and say it's fine at the same time...well, you can
and apparenty are, but it's obviously *****.
Promoting a particular kind of religion in a
public forum is not.
LOL!!! Well, you just admitted that you really don't believe religious
freedom is fine, so like I pointed out your original declaration amounts
to nothing but *****.
Religious freedom does not mean the freedom to impose your religion on
others.
Public schools are paid for by tax paying citizens
who are not all christians. Many people died to escape the tyranny of a
government sponsered religion[s]. You have no right to demand your
christian philosophy be taught in public school.
True. And even more true: no one has a right to demand that religious
beliefs are not allowed to be taught or recognised in public school, so
why are atheistic religious paranoid freaks being allowed to restrict
normal
people because of their insane religious beliefs?
Teaching religious beliefs in a publically funded school is goverment
sponsored religious teaching. That's a violation of the religious freedom
of those who either believe in something different, or have no religious
beliefs. Religious freedom means freedom from the religion of others as
well.
If you don't like it,
I suggest you move to another country where christian theocracy is the
rule.
You're suggesting that if people don't like the influence that atheists
are imposing on their lives because of the atheists' insane religious
paranoia,
they should move to a country that imposes some other religious beliefs.
Since that is what you are asking to be done, what is your problem?
This country was founded on religious freedom, not on maniacal atheistic
restrictions.
Religious freedom applies to atheists as well. They have the same right to
not be subject to the religious beliefs of others, the same as you have the
right not to be subject to the religious beliefs of other denominations,
religions, sects, etc..
Atheists are getting away with imposing their religious problems
on everyone else, which is the sort of thing this country was founded in
large part to escape from.
Religious freedom in the US is based on the idea that individuals be able to
worship as they please. That also means the right to not worship. What
"religious problems" do you feel atheists have, and what problems do you
think are being imposed? Not being able to impose your religious beliefs
on others is not a violation of your religious beliefs.
Atheists have contaminated our country with
their religious problems, and there is no doubt about it.
What "religious problems" do you think Atheists have "contaminated" the
country with? Remember, atheists say there is no God, and reject religion.
What "religious problems" do you imagine this creates?
AND!!! Some tax
paying citizens very much resent the influence that their contamination
has produced..
Some tax paying citizens wish to impose their religious beliefs on others.
The 1st amendment prohibits the goverment from being used to do this. That
does upset some people, but unless they are willing to convince the majority
of people to overthow the Constitution, they have no case.
.those of us who valued what used to be our religious
freedom before the atheists managed to restrict it.
What religious freedoms do you feel have been restricted? Remember,
imposing your beliefs on others is not a freedom, it's a violation of
freedom. Requiring students to say prayers, or read Bible verses in
publcally funded schools is not a religious freedom.
I'm surprised the
Jews and Muslims aren't ***** about it too, or do atheists only
restrict Christian beliefs?
Again, what Christian beliefs are being restricted? Jews and Muslums in
the US are more likely to approve of the 1st amendment cases, as Christians
are the majority, and are more likely to try to have their religious beliefs
compromised by Christian majority than by atheists.
And while the half-***** bastards are busy
restricting things related to Christianity, are they trying to remove
Easter,
Christmas and Thanksgiving as holidays?
From where are they trying to remove them? Are Easter sunrise services
being broken up? Are manger scenes being banned from peoples front yards?
Are bands of roving atheists sneaking into homes and turning off the ovens
on Thanksgiving days, so the turkey dinners won't be done? Where are
these holidays being restricted?
Surely atheists want to prevent
anything public that could be considered a form of thanks to God, for
providing such a wonderful country for them to ***** up.
Surely atheists want to be left alone, and not be subject to the religious
beliefs of others. Surely the 1st amendment guarantees atheists, as well
as everyone else, the right to practice, or not practice religious beliefs
as he or she wishes. That includes the freedom from the religion of the
majority.
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| User: "Andrew Arensburger" |
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| Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Train Rides |
13 Jul 2005 05:32:45 PM |
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In talk.origins dh@. wrote:
You're suggesting that if people don't like the influence that atheists
are imposing on their lives because of the atheists' insane religious paranoia,
they should move to a country that imposes some other religious beliefs.
This country was founded on religious freedom, not on maniacal atheistic
restrictions. Atheists are getting away with imposing their religious problems
on everyone else, which is the sort of thing this country was founded in
large part to escape from. Atheists have contaminated our country with
their religious problems, and there is no doubt about it.
I had never realized before the disproportionate influence
that atheists (3-9% of the US population, according to
http://www.pitzer.edu/academics/faculty/zuckerman/atheism.html ) have
on American politics.
This explains why politicians are falling over themselves
courting the atheist vote: all those measures to remove "under God"
from the Pledge of Allegiance, remove "In God We Trust" from US
currency, revoke churches' tax-exempt status, withdraw federal funding
for chaplains in Congress and the armed forces, the list just goes on
and on.
And it's just shameful how the constitutional amendment
banning churches, mosques, synagogues, etc. just sailed through a few
years ago.
Yes, we need fearless voices like yours to speak up. Perhaps
this generation will live to see the day when an openly-theistic
person is elected to Congress or -- dare I dream? -- President.
And it's not just in politics, either. When's the last time
anyone saw a religious program on TV? Or a church that didn't have a
mob of picket-carrying atheists demanding that it be shut down? How
many stories have you heard of people's cars being keyed because they
had a Jesus fish or "God loves you" bumper sticker?
--
Andrew Arensburger, Systems guy University of Maryland
arensb.no-bloody-spam@umd.edu Office of Information Technology
I'd like to see things your way, but I can't get my head that far up my *****.
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| User: "Dogma Discharge" |
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| Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Train Rides |
14 Jul 2005 06:20:52 AM |
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"Andrew Arensburger" <arensb.no-bloody-spam@umd.edu> wrote in message
news:db44qd$16l$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
How
many stories have you heard of people's cars being keyed because they
had a Jesus fish or "God loves you" bumper sticker?
I coud never ever get tired of hearing that story, its a classic.
--
Kind Regards
Cameron
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| User: "Andrew Arensburger" |
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| Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Train Rides |
15 Jul 2005 05:44:38 PM |
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In talk.origins Dogma Discharge <s@c.c.c> wrote:
"Andrew Arensburger" <arensb.no-bloody-spam@umd.edu> wrote in message
news:db44qd$16l$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
How
many stories have you heard of people's cars being keyed because they
had a Jesus fish or "God loves you" bumper sticker?
I coud never ever get tired of hearing that story, its a classic.
Do you have a reference? I've never heard of such an occurrence.
--
Andrew Arensburger, Systems guy University of Maryland
arensb.no-bloody-spam@umd.edu Office of Information Technology
What am I? Flypaper for freaks!?
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| User: "RainLover" |
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| Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Train Rides |
14 Jul 2005 09:37:08 AM |
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On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:32:45 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Arensburger
<arensb.no-bloody-spam@umd.edu> wrote:
In talk.origins dh@. wrote:
You're suggesting that if people don't like the influence that atheists
are imposing on their lives because of the atheists' insane religious paranoia,
they should move to a country that imposes some other religious beliefs.
This country was founded on religious freedom, not on maniacal atheistic
restrictions. Atheists are getting away with imposing their religious problems
on everyone else, which is the sort of thing this country was founded in
large part to escape from. Atheists have contaminated our country with
their religious problems, and there is no doubt about it.
I had never realized before the disproportionate influence
that atheists (3-9% of the US population, according to
http://www.pitzer.edu/academics/faculty/zuckerman/atheism.html ) have
on American politics.
This explains why politicians are falling over themselves
courting the atheist vote: all those measures to remove "under God"
from the Pledge of Allegiance, remove "In God We Trust" from US
currency, revoke churches' tax-exempt status, withdraw federal funding
for chaplains in Congress and the armed forces, the list just goes on
and on.
The religious right stuffed "under god" INTO the pledge... it
shouldn't be there, and, in AMERICA, not all people who take a PLEDGE
of ALLEGIANCE (think about what 'pledge' means) Believe in (capital
"g") God, so why should people pledging allegiance to their NATION
have to include *your* God in that pledge?
As for currency... would you be FOR changed a few notes to read
"praise Allah"? Of course not. This is a country of ALL religions,
not just yours, not to mention the Hypocrisy of having a Deity on
MONEY.
As for "tax-exempt" churches... there are specific RULES in order to
get that status.. ONE of those rules is to NOT ENDORSE ANY POLITICAL
CANDIDATE... if any tax-exempt church is doing this, they SHOULD
loose that tax status.
And it's just shameful how the constitutional amendment
banning churches, mosques, synagogues, etc. just sailed through a few
years ago.
Constitutional Amendment? I'm not familiar with ANY amendments
passing the US Congress, care to elaborate????
Yes, we need fearless voices like yours to speak up. Perhaps
this generation will live to see the day when an openly-theistic
person is elected to Congress or -- dare I dream? -- President.
And it's not just in politics, either. When's the last time
anyone saw a religious program on TV?
Two days ago... Touched by an Angel.
Every day... three local religious-only television channels.
Coming this fall... "America's Pastor".. a reality show where
"america" picks a pastor.
Once a week... The Daily Show: "This week in God"
Or a church that didn't have a
mob of picket-carrying atheists demanding that it be shut down?
I've NEVER seen a mob of atheists do anything as a group... it's like
herding f*cking cats. And I've never Seen ANYTHING about picketers
trying to shut down a church.
I *HAVE* seen picketers (neighbors in a single-family residential
area) picketing to stop a Mega Church with parking for 800 from going
in next door. Is this what you're referring to?
How
many stories have you heard of people's cars being keyed because they
had a Jesus fish or "God loves you" bumper sticker?
I've NEVER heard of such a thing. But thanks for putting the idea out
there....
Oh, and I used to HAVE a simular bumpersticker on my truck... let me
know if you can relate... It said:
"JESUS LOVES YOU (everyone else thinks you're an *****)"
James, Seattle
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| User: "skyeyes" |
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| Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Train Rides |
14 Jul 2005 02:06:29 PM |
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RainLover wrote:
<Snip post>
James, dear, the post you're responding to was *satire*, sweetie.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
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| User: "Lt. Kizhe Catson" |
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| Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Train Rides |
14 Jul 2005 10:18:37 AM |
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RainLover wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:32:45 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Arensburger
<arensb.no-bloody-spam@umd.edu> wrote:
In talk.origins dh@. wrote:
You're suggesting that if people don't like the influence that atheists
are imposing on their lives because of the atheists' insane religious paranoia,
they should move to a country that imposes some other religious beliefs.
This country was founded on religious freedom, not on maniacal atheistic
restrictions. Atheists are getting away with imposing their religious problems
on everyone else, which is the sort of thing this country was founded in
large part to escape from. Atheists have contaminated our country with
their religious problems, and there is no doubt about it.
I had never realized before the disproportionate influence
that atheists (3-9% of the US population, according to
http://www.pitzer.edu/academics/faculty/zuckerman/atheism.html ) have
on American politics.
This explains why politicians are falling over themselves
courting the atheist vote: all those measures to remove "under God"
from the Pledge of Allegiance, remove "In God We Trust" from US
currency, revoke churches' tax-exempt status, withdraw federal funding
for chaplains in Congress and the armed forces, the list just goes on
and on.
The religious right stuffed "under god" INTO the pledge... it
shouldn't be there, and, in AMERICA, not all people who take a PLEDGE
of ALLEGIANCE (think about what 'pledge' means) Believe in (capital
"g") God, so why should people pledging allegiance to their NATION
have to include *your* God in that pledge?
Oh dear. The concept you are missing here is "sarcasm". Go back and
read Andrew's post again with that in mind ;-).
[rest snipped]
-- Kizhe
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| User: "John Vreeland" |
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| Title: Re: Our Faith-Based Train Rides |
15 Jul 2005 11:01:30 PM |
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RainLover wrote:
[..]
Or a church that didn't have a
mob of picket-carrying atheists demanding that it be shut down?
I've NEVER seen a mob of atheists do anything as a group... it's like
herding f*cking cats. And I've never Seen ANYTHING about picketers
trying to shut down a church.
The Church of Scientology gets picketed all the time. In fact, I'm
wearing a FREE KATIE t-shirt as I write this.
I *HAVE* seen picketers (neighbors in a single-family residential
area) picketing to stop a Mega Church with parking for 800 from going
in next door. Is this what you're referring to?
How
many stories have you heard of people's cars being keyed because they
had a Jesus fish or "God loves you" bumper sticker?
I've NEVER heard of such a thing. But thanks for putting the idea out
there....
It sounds like one of those stories people tell each other so they will
feel more like an oppressed minority. Parishoners are always
circulating absurd stories about how some large company supports "The
Church of Satan" (whatever that might be) or how there are underground
cults of demon-worshippers sacrificing babies. It was part of the mind
set that eventually compelled me to leave the church, er, got me
disinvited.
Christian Fundamentalists thrive on perceiving themselves as a
righteous, persecuted minority who will one day inherit the Kingdom of
God. Anything we do to challenge their core beliefs just reinforces
that attitude.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: "In Atheists We Trust"? (was: Re: Our Faith-Based Train Rides) |
16 Jul 2005 02:06:58 PM |
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On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:32:45 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Arensburger <arensb.no-bloody-spam@umd.edu> wrote:
In talk.origins dh@. wrote:
You're suggesting that if people don't like the influence that atheists
are imposing on their lives because of the atheists' insane religious paranoia,
they should move to a country that imposes some other religious beliefs.
This country was founded on religious freedom, not on maniacal atheistic
restrictions. Atheists are getting away with imposing their religious problems
on everyone else, which is the sort of thing this country was founded in
large part to escape from. Atheists have contaminated our country with
their religious problems, and there is no doubt about it.
I had never realized before the disproportionate influence
that atheists (3-9% of the US population, according to
http://www.pitzer.edu/academics/faculty/zuckerman/atheism.html ) have
on American politics.
This explains why politicians are falling over themselves
courting the atheist vote: all those measures to remove "under God"
from the Pledge of Allegiance, remove "In God We Trust" from US
currency,
If it gets changed, the only reasonable thing to replace it with
would have to be "In Atheists We Trust", since we'd have to
replace faith in God with faith in Atheists in order to make such
a change.
.
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| User: "Nog" |
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| Title: Re: "In Atheists We Trust"? (was: Re: Our Faith-Based Train Rides) |
18 Jul 2005 09:00:15 AM |
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<dh@.> wrote in message news:8mmid15iu8khjop0dclj5rpd31dkdr01n6@4ax.com...
On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:32:45 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Arensburger
<arensb.no-bloody-spam@umd.edu> wrote:
In talk.origins dh@. wrote:
You're suggesting that if people don't like the influence that
atheists
are imposing on their lives because of the atheists' insane religious
paranoia,
they should move to a country that imposes some other religious beliefs.
This country was founded on religious freedom, not on maniacal atheistic
restrictions. Atheists are getting away with imposing their religious
problems
on everyone else, which is the sort of thing this country was founded in
large part to escape from. Atheists have contaminated our country with
their religious problems, and there is no doubt about it.
I had never realized before the disproportionate influence
that atheists (3-9% of the US population, according to
http://www.pitzer.edu/academics/faculty/zuckerman/atheism.html ) have
on American politics.
This explains why politicians are falling over themselves
courting the atheist vote: all those measures to remove "under God"
from the Pledge of Allegiance, remove "In God We Trust" from US
currency,
If it gets changed, the only reasonable thing to replace it with
would have to be "In Atheists We Trust", since we'd have to
replace faith in God with faith in Atheists in order to make such
a change.
How about "In All We Trust. Keep your god ***** to your self.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: "In Atheists We Trust"? (was: Re: Our Faith-Based Train Rides) |
18 Jul 2005 11:37:28 AM |
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On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 10:00:15 -0400, "Nog" <nognog@adelphia.net> wrote:
<dh@.> wrote in message news:8mmid15iu8khjop0dclj5rpd31dkdr01n6@4ax.com...
On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:32:45 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Arensburger
<arensb.no-bloody-spam@umd.edu> wrote:
In talk.origins dh@. wrote:
You're suggesting that if people don't like the influence that
atheists
are imposing on their lives because of the atheists' insane religious
paranoia,
they should move to a country that imposes some other religious beliefs.
This country was founded on religious freedom, not on maniacal atheistic
restrictions. Atheists are getting away with imposing their religious
problems
on everyone else, which is the sort of thing this country was founded in
large part to escape from. Atheists have contaminated our country with
their religious problems, and there is no doubt about it.
I had never realized before the disproportionate influence
that atheists (3-9% of the US population, according to
http://www.pitzer.edu/academics/faculty/zuckerman/atheism.html ) have
on American politics.
This explains why politicians are falling over themselves
courting the atheist vote: all those measures to remove "under God"
from the Pledge of Allegiance, remove "In God We Trust" from US
currency,
If it gets changed, the only reasonable thing to replace it with
would have to be "In Atheists We Trust", since we'd have to
replace faith in God with faith in Atheists in order to make such
a change.
How about "In All We Trust.
LOL! Hell no. What's the matter with you? Do you trust
everyone?
Keep your god ***** to your self.
What type ***** do you like?
.
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| User: "The_Sage" |
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| Title: Re: "In Atheists We Trust"? (was: Re: Our Faith-Based Train Rides) |
23 Jul 2005 10:30:50 PM |
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Reply to article by: dh@.
Date written: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 15:06:58 -0400
MsgID:<8mmid15iu8khjop0dclj5rpd31dkdr01n6@4ax.com>
If it gets changed, the only reasonable thing to replace it with
would have to be "In Atheists We Trust", since we'd have to
replace faith in God with faith in Atheists in order to make such
a change.
Whatever you decide it should be changed to, at least change it, because
whatever you have faith in now is failing us all.
The Sage
=============================================================
My Home Page : http://members.cox.net/the.sage
"Toward no crimes have men shown themselves so cold-bloodedly
cruel as in punishing differences in belief"
-- James Russell Lowell
=============================================================
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: "In Atheists We Trust"? (was: Re: Our Faith-Based Train Rides) |
24 Jul 2005 12:06:32 PM |
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On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 20:30:50 -0700, The_Sage <The_Sage@msn.com> wrote:
Reply to article by: dh@.
Date written: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 15:06:58 -0400
MsgID:<8mmid15iu8khjop0dclj5rpd31dkdr01n6@4ax.com>
If it gets changed, the only reasonable thing to replace it with
would have to be "In Atheists We Trust", since we'd have to
replace faith in God with faith in Atheists in order to make such
a change.
Whatever you decide it should be changed to, at least change it, because
whatever you have faith in now is failing us all.
How so?
The Sage
=============================================================
My Home Page : http://members.cox.net/the.sage
"Toward no crimes have men shown themselves so cold-bloodedly
cruel as in punishing differences in belief"
-- James Russell Lowell
=============================================================
.
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| User: "The_Sage" |
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| Title: Re: "In Atheists We Trust"? (was: Re: Our Faith-Based Train Rides) |
24 Jul 2005 10:25:39 PM |
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Reply to article by: dh@.
Date written: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 13:06:32 -0400
MsgID:<gki7e1948ucahotmcjoe2j82c3o9elqsf3@4ax.com>
If it gets changed, the only reasonable thing to replace it with
would have to be "In Atheists We Trust", since we'd have to
replace faith in God with faith in Atheists in order to make such
a change.
Whatever you decide it should be changed to, at least change it, because
whatever you have faith in now is failing us all.
How so?
He is failing to keep Atheists out of politics for one thing.
The Sage
=============================================================
My Home Page : http://members.cox.net/the.sage
"Toward no crimes have men shown themselves so cold-bloodedly
cruel as in punishing differences in belief"
-- James Russell Lowell
=============================================================
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: "In Atheists We Trust"? (was: Re: Our Faith-Based Train Rides) |
25 Jul 2005 09:51:14 AM |
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On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 20:25:39 -0700, The_Sage <The_Sage@msn.com> wrote:
Reply to article by: dh@.
Date written: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 13:06:32 -0400
MsgID:<gki7e1948ucahotmcjoe2j82c3o9elqsf3@4ax.com>
If it gets changed, the only reasonable thing to replace it with
would have to be "In Atheists We Trust", since we'd have to
replace faith in God with faith in Atheists in order to make such
a change.
Whatever you decide it should be changed to, at least change it, because
whatever you have faith in now is failing us all.
How so?
He is failing to keep Atheists out of politics for one thing.
If he exists, I seriously doubt that's a failing.
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: "In Atheists We Trust"? (was: Re: Our Faith-Based Train Rides) |
17 Jul 2005 02:24:17 AM |
|
|
In article <8mmid15iu8khjop0dclj5rpd31dkdr01n6@4ax.com>, dh@. wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:32:45 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Arensburger
<arensb.no-bloody-spam@umd.edu> wrote:
In talk.origins dh@. wrote:
You're suggesting that if people don't like the influence that
atheists
are imposing on their lives because of the atheists' insane religious
paranoia,
they should move to a country that imposes some other religious beliefs.
This country was founded on religious freedom, not on maniacal atheistic
restrictions. Atheists are getting away with imposing their religious
problems
on everyone else, which is the sort of thing this country was founded in
large part to escape from. Atheists have contaminated our country with
their religious problems, and there is no doubt about it.
I had never realized before the disproportionate influence
that atheists (3-9% of the US population, according to
http://www.pitzer.edu/academics/faculty/zuckerman/atheism.html ) have
on American politics.
This explains why politicians are falling over themselves
courting the atheist vote: all those measures to remove "under God"
from the Pledge of Allegiance, remove "In God We Trust" from US
currency,
If it gets changed, the only reasonable thing to replace it with
would have to be "In Atheists We Trust", since we'd have to
replace faith in God with faith in Atheists in order to make such
a change.
'E pluribus unum' would work for me, but why do we need a motto on our
coins any way?
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
.
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| User: "Phÿltêr" |
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| Title: Re: "In Atheists We Trust"? (was: Re: Our Faith-Based Train Rides) |
17 Jul 2005 02:46:48 AM |
|
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[posted and mailed]
johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> astounded us with:
news:jhachm-0286FE.00241717072005@news.giganews.com:
In article <8mmid15iu8khjop0dclj5rpd31dkdr01n6@4ax.com>, dh@. wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:32:45 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Arensburger
<arensb.no-bloody-spam@umd.edu> wrote:
In talk.origins dh@. wrote:
You're suggesting that if people don't like the influence that
atheists
are imposing on their lives because of the atheists' insane
religious paranoia,
they should move to a country that imposes some other religious
beliefs. This country was founded on religious freedom, not on
maniacal atheistic restrictions. Atheists are getting away with
imposing their religious problems
on everyone else, which is the sort of thing this country was
founded in large part to escape from. Atheists have contaminated our
country with their religious problems, and there is no doubt about
it.
I had never realized before the disproportionate influence
that atheists (3-9% of the US population, according to
http://www.pitzer.edu/academics/faculty/zuckerman/atheism.html ) have
on American politics.
This explains why politicians are falling over themselves
courting the atheist vote: all those measures to remove "under God"
from the Pledge of Allegiance, remove "In God We Trust" from US
currency,
If it gets changed, the only reasonable thing to replace it with
would have to be "In Atheists We Trust", since we'd have to
replace faith in God with faith in Atheists in order to make such
a change.
'E pluribus unum' would work for me, but why do we need a motto on our
coins any way?
Because the ***** can't think outside the box, so summarily assumes it
HAS to have a motto...
--
Phÿltêr
AA#1938
Denizen of Darkness #44 & AFJC Antipodean Attaché
Remove "s" to respond
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com
.
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| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: "In Atheists We Trust"? (was: Re: Our Faith-Based Train Rides) |
17 Jul 2005 10:59:55 PM |
|
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In article <I1oCe.50899$oJ.25546@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
"Phÿltêr" <phylter@hsotmail.com> wrote:
[posted and mailed]
johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> astounded us with:
news:jhachm-0286FE.00241717072005@news.giganews.com:
In article <8mmid15iu8khjop0dclj5rpd31dkdr01n6@4ax.com>, dh@. wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:32:45 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Arensburger
<arensb.no-bloody-spam@umd.edu> wrote:
In talk.origins dh@. wrote:
You're suggesting that if people don't like the influence that
atheists
are imposing on their lives because of the atheists' insane
religious paranoia,
they should move to a country that imposes some other religious
beliefs. This country was founded on religious freedom, not on
maniacal atheistic restrictions. Atheists are getting away with
imposing their religious problems
on everyone else, which is the sort of thing this country was
founded in large part to escape from. Atheists have contaminated our
country with their religious problems, and there is no doubt about
it.
I had never realized before the disproportionate influence
that atheists (3-9% of the US population, according to
http://www.pitzer.edu/academics/faculty/zuckerman/atheism.html ) have
on American politics.
This explains why politicians are falling over themselves
courting the atheist vote: all those measures to remove "under God"
from the Pledge of Allegiance, remove "In God We Trust" from US
currency,
If it gets changed, the only reasonable thing to replace it with
would have to be "In Atheists We Trust", since we'd have to
replace faith in God with faith in Atheists in order to make such
a change.
'E pluribus unum' would work for me, but why do we need a motto on our
coins any way?
Because the ***** can't think outside the box, so summarily assumes it
HAS to have a motto...
It is sad that people need mottoes to remind them how to think.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: "In Atheists We Trust"? (was: Re: Our Faith-Based Train Rides) |
16 Jul 2005 08:17:33 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 15:06:58 -0400, dh@. drained his beer, leaned back
in the alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly proclaimed the following
This explains why politicians are falling over themselves
courting the atheist vote: all those measures to remove "under God"
from the Pledge of Allegiance, remove "In God We Trust" from US
currency,
If it gets changed, the only reasonable thing to replace it with
would have to be "In Atheists We Trust", since we'd have to
replace faith in God with faith in Atheists in order to make such
a change.
"E Pluribus Unum" doesn't work for you?
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
.
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| User: "DanielSan" |
|
| Title: Re: "In Atheists We Trust"? |
17 Jul 2005 03:33:52 PM |
|
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Douglas Berry wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 15:06:58 -0400, dh@. drained his beer, leaned back
in the alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly proclaimed the following
This explains why politicians are falling over themselves
courting the atheist vote: all those measures to remove "under God"
from the Pledge of Allegiance, remove "In God We Trust" from US
currency,
If it gets changed, the only reasonable thing to replace it with
would have to be "In Atheists We Trust", since we'd have to
replace faith in God with faith in Atheists in order to make such
a change.
"E Pluribus Unum" doesn't work for you?
Works for me. I love it!
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "No one ever demonstrated, so far as I am aware, *
* the non-existence of Zeus or Thor - but they *
* have few followers now." Arthur C. Clarke *
****************************************************
.
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| User: "Tak" |
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| Title: Re: "In Atheists We Trust"? (was: Re: Our Faith-Based Train Rides) |
16 Jul 2005 07:19:18 PM |
|
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On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 15:06:58 -0400, dh@. wrote:
If it gets changed, the only reasonable thing to replace it with
would have to be "In Atheists We Trust", since we'd have to
replace faith in God with faith in Atheists in order to make such
a change.
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail..........
Tak
a#344
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