| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"maff" |
| Date: |
18 Sep 2003 03:25:57 AM |
| Object: |
Our role in the terror |
Our role in the terror
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1044413,00.html
Karen Armstrong
Thursday September 18, 2003
The Guardian
Since the second anniversary of September 11, we have had sober
reminders that military force alone cannot eliminate the threat of
religiously inspired terrorism. There has been the dramatic, if
disputed, reappearance of Osama bin Laden; new reports that Islamist
extremism is again gaining ground in Afghanistan; and in the wake of
horrific attacks by Hamas, the Israeli right has called for the
expulsion of Yasser Arafat - a move that would almost certainly
provoke a new spate of suicide bombings.
How do we account for the rise of this religious violence in the
post-Enlightenment world? Ever since 9/11, President Bush has
repeatedly condemned Islamist terror as an atavistic rejection of
American freedom, while Tony Blair recently called it a virus, as
though, like Aids, its origins are inexplicable. They are wrong, on
both counts. The terrorists' methods are appalling, but they regard
themselves as freedom fighters, and there is nothing mysterious about
the source of these extremist groups: to a significant degree, they
are the result of our own policies.
Karen Armstrong
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&q=+%22Karen+Armstrong%22&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&q=+%22Karen+Armstrong%22&sa=N&tab=nw
http://groups.google.com/groups?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&q=+%22Karen+Armstrong%22&sa=N&tab=wg
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&q=+%22Karen+Armstrong%22&sa=N&tab=gd&cat=gwd%2FTop
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Our role in the terror |
18 Sep 2003 10:48:12 AM |
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On 18 Sep 2003 01:25:57 -0700, (maff) wrote:
Our role in the terror
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1044413,00.html
Karen Armstrong
Thursday September 18, 2003
The Guardian
Since the second anniversary of September 11, we have had sober
reminders that military force alone cannot eliminate the threat of
religiously inspired terrorism. There has been the dramatic, if
disputed, reappearance of Osama bin Laden; new reports that Islamist
extremism is again gaining ground in Afghanistan; and in the wake of
horrific attacks by Hamas, the Israeli right has called for the
expulsion of Yasser Arafat - a move that would almost certainly
provoke a new spate of suicide bombings.
How do we account for the rise of this religious violence in the
post-Enlightenment world? Ever since 9/11, President Bush has
repeatedly condemned Islamist terror as an atavistic rejection of
American freedom, while Tony Blair recently called it a virus, as
though, like Aids, its origins are inexplicable. They are wrong, on
both counts. The terrorists' methods are appalling, but they regard
themselves as freedom fighters, and there is nothing mysterious about
the source of these extremist groups: to a significant degree, they
are the result of our own policies.
Karen Armstrong
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&q=+%22Karen+Armstrong%22&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&q=+%22Karen+Armstrong%22&sa=N&tab=nw
http://groups.google.com/groups?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&q=+%22Karen+Armstrong%22&sa=N&tab=wg
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&q=+%22Karen+Armstrong%22&sa=N&tab=gd&cat=gwd%2FTop
Do you mean that terrorism is like cockroaches, or a drug resistant
disease: the more you fight it, the stronger it gets?
If it's thought related, it'll live forever, unfortunately. It has to
be fought by thought, Like that general who rounded up 50 muslims,
soaked his bullets in pigs blood, shot 49 of them and buried them with
the pigs, and let the 50'th one go to tell the others. That stopped it
for 50 years or so.
I have details on my other 'pooter but it's not on right now and I
haven't mirrored them completely yet.
drift
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| User: "Bob Dog" |
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| Title: Re: Our role in the terror |
21 Sep 2003 07:49:43 AM |
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wrote in message news:<7fkjmv02fm3pbcombgi4r3mr8na8ta3965@4ax.com>...
On 18 Sep 2003 01:25:57 -0700, (maff) wrote:
Our role in the terror
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1044413,00.html
Karen Armstrong
Thursday September 18, 2003
The Guardian
Since the second anniversary of September 11, we have had sober
reminders that military force alone cannot eliminate the threat of
religiously inspired terrorism.
How do we account for the rise of this religious violence in the
post-Enlightenment world? Ever since 9/11, President Bush has
repeatedly condemned Islamist terror as an atavistic rejection of
American freedom, while Tony Blair recently called it a virus, as
though, like Aids, its origins are inexplicable. They are wrong, on
both counts. The terrorists' methods are appalling, but they regard
themselves as freedom fighters, and there is nothing mysterious about
the source of these extremist groups: to a significant degree, they
are the result of our own policies.
Do you mean that terrorism is like cockroaches, or a drug resistant
disease: the more you fight it, the stronger it gets?
Terrorism is the act of the desperate, the measure of last
resort. When all reasonable and legal means of responding
to aggression have been exhausted, then only a fool or the
aggressor would not expect terrorism as a response.
For the past 50 years the US has interfered with the self-
determination of other nations for the US's own benefit.
How naive must someone be to expect nations not to reject
such colonialism? The US is now the biggest proponent of
terrorism around the world, just as it was the biggest
proponent of communism during the cold war.
To continue the disease analogy, then the US behaves like
a man who thinks raping women will stop the spread of STDs.
If it's thought related, it'll live forever, unfortunately. It has to
be fought by thought,
The only thought that will work is an apology. The US owes
one to islamic nations as well as many others.
Like that general who rounded up 50 muslims,
soaked his bullets in pigs blood, shot 49 of them and buried them with
the pigs, and let the 50'th one go to tell the others. That stopped it
for 50 years or so.
I have details on my other 'pooter but it's not on right now and I
haven't mirrored them completely yet.
In all probability a mythical version of what the British
did in India.
Bob Dog
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Our role in the terror |
21 Sep 2003 10:33:06 PM |
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On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 05:49:43 -0700, Bob Dog wrote:
For the past 50 years the US has interfered with the self-
determination of other nations for the US's own benefit.
How naive must someone be to expect nations not to reject
such colonialism?
Oh, about this much.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: Our role in the terror |
19 Sep 2003 04:02:22 AM |
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wrote in message news:<7fkjmv02fm3pbcombgi4r3mr8na8ta3965@4ax.com>...
On 18 Sep 2003 01:25:57 -0700, (maff) wrote:
Our role in the terror
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1044413,00.html
Karen Armstrong
Thursday September 18, 2003
The Guardian
Since the second anniversary of September 11, we have had sober
reminders that military force alone cannot eliminate the threat of
religiously inspired terrorism. There has been the dramatic, if
disputed, reappearance of Osama bin Laden; new reports that Islamist
extremism is again gaining ground in Afghanistan; and in the wake of
horrific attacks by Hamas, the Israeli right has called for the
expulsion of Yasser Arafat - a move that would almost certainly
provoke a new spate of suicide bombings.
How do we account for the rise of this religious violence in the
post-Enlightenment world? Ever since 9/11, President Bush has
repeatedly condemned Islamist terror as an atavistic rejection of
American freedom, while Tony Blair recently called it a virus, as
though, like Aids, its origins are inexplicable. They are wrong, on
both counts. The terrorists' methods are appalling, but they regard
themselves as freedom fighters, and there is nothing mysterious about
the source of these extremist groups: to a significant degree, they
are the result of our own policies.
Karen Armstrong
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&q=+%22Karen+Armstrong%22&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&q=+%22Karen+Armstrong%22&sa=N&tab=nw
http://groups.google.com/groups?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&q=+%22Karen+Armstrong%22&sa=N&tab=wg
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&q=+%22Karen+Armstrong%22&sa=N&tab=gd&cat=gwd%2FTop
Do you mean that terrorism is like cockroaches, or a drug resistant
disease: the more you fight it, the stronger it gets?
Yep. So you don't know anything about evolution?
Scientists search for secrets of robust systems
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=18510aff.0210120211.83788ac%40posting.google.com
If it's thought related, it'll live forever, unfortunately. It has to
be fought by thought, Like that general who rounded up 50 muslims,
soaked his bullets in pigs blood, shot 49 of them and buried them with
the pigs, and let the 50'th one go to tell the others. That stopped it
for 50 years or so.
I have details on my other 'pooter but it's not on right now and I
haven't mirrored them completely yet.
drift
.
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| User: "Lord Calvert" |
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| Title: Re: Our role in the terror |
18 Sep 2003 11:35:52 AM |
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If it's thought related, it'll live forever, unfortunately. It has to
be fought by thought, Like that general who rounded up 50 muslims,
soaked his bullets in pigs blood, shot 49 of them and buried them with
the pigs, and let the 50'th one go to tell the others. That stopped it
for 50 years or so.
Urban legend about General Pershing and the Moro rebellion in the Philippines
between 1909 and 1913.
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pershing.htm
If you're thinking "fifty years ago" what you're probably thinking of is the
1939 Gary Cooper film "The Real Glory"
Please do not confuse Hollywood with reality.
Rich Goranson, Amherst, NY, USA (aa#MCMXCIX, a-vet#1)
EAC Ill-Legal Dept. "Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here"
"My country, right or wrong; to be defended when right and righted when wrong."
- Thomas Jefferson
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Our role in the terror |
18 Sep 2003 02:58:56 PM |
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On 18 Sep 2003 16:35:52 GMT, forlornh@aol.commode (Lord Calvert)
wrote:
If it's thought related, it'll live forever, unfortunately. It has to
be fought by thought, Like that general who rounded up 50 muslims,
soaked his bullets in pigs blood, shot 49 of them and buried them with
the pigs, and let the 50'th one go to tell the others. That stopped it
for 50 years or so.
Urban legend about General Pershing and the Moro rebellion in the Philippines
between 1909 and 1913.
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pershing.htm
If you're thinking "fifty years ago" what you're probably thinking of is the
1939 Gary Cooper film "The Real Glory"
Please do not confuse Hollywood with reality.
I meant 50 years commencing Pershings alleged act.
Snopes has it as "undetermined" I should have checked. Sometimes I
don't bother with exactness, it's the idea that counts, and those
times usually involve direct support of the liquor control agency.
But I think the idea is great, beat the enemy by attacking what is in
their head that makes them do crazy things, rather than just bomb the
***** out of ancient cities for their oil.
And I know that Hollywood is where you go to escape reality, not learn
it. I won't seek magic lessons from Barbara Eden (I Dream of Genie) or
basketball coaching from Fred MacMurry (Flubber).
Newsgroups are also a great source of serious distortions of reality,
too, not to mention all forms of codswallop. That's what makes it fun.
But people like you do help keep it sane. That enhances the overall
quality.
Thanks for your input.
Rich Goranson, Amherst, NY, USA (aa#MCMXCIX, a-vet#1)
EAC Ill-Legal Dept. "Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here"
"My country, right or wrong; to be defended when right and righted when wrong."
- Thomas Jefferson
drift
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| User: "Meteorite Debris" |
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| Title: Re: Our role in the terror |
18 Sep 2003 09:53:41 PM |
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On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 15:58:56 -0400 the ET form known as
drift@lost.net<drift@lost.net> sent a radio signal across the vast
expanse of deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.--._.
On 18 Sep 2003 16:35:52 GMT, forlornh@aol.commode (Lord Calvert)
wrote:
If it's thought related, it'll live forever, unfortunately. It has to
be fought by thought, Like that general who rounded up 50 muslims,
soaked his bullets in pigs blood, shot 49 of them and buried them with
the pigs, and let the 50'th one go to tell the others. That stopped it
for 50 years or so.
Urban legend about General Pershing and the Moro rebellion in the Philippines
between 1909 and 1913.
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pershing.htm
If you're thinking "fifty years ago" what you're probably thinking of is the
1939 Gary Cooper film "The Real Glory"
Please do not confuse Hollywood with reality.
I meant 50 years commencing Pershings alleged act.
Snopes has it as "undetermined" I should have checked. Sometimes I
don't bother with exactness, it's the idea that counts, and those
times usually involve direct support of the liquor control agency.
But I think the idea is great, beat the enemy by attacking what is in
their head that makes them do crazy things, rather than just bomb the
***** out of ancient cities for their oil.
I would have thought a better approach to terrorism was not to support
it to start with. Not to have supported the mujihadeen in Afghanistan
is the 80s. Not to support Israel's illegal occupation of the West
Bank and Gaza with economic and military aide (every bomb casing with
American markings that kills bystanders in a Gaza street when fired by
Israeli forces is a recruit for future terrorists more effectively
than Arafat or Hamas). Not to have supported Saddam in the 80's in his
war against Iran and winked sideways when he was developing WMDs. And
not to float an entire economy on the military-industrial complex, nor
support arms exports. And finally not to be so dependent on oil.
--
To reply remove *THE_ANTI-SPAM_SHIELD*
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet -
Evil Atheist Conspiracy
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
Shhh. Be very quiet, I'm hunting automorons. Heh heh.
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever
conceived." - Isaac Asimov
Fingerprint for PGP Keys at key server or go to
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
RSA - 71 BA 7C 45 B5 4A 5F EA 72 DB EC 7F 7F A8 70 99
DSS - 9217 21A9 9C3F EB0B E302 AD0E 69C5 0F06 402E 0943
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Our role in the terror |
19 Sep 2003 07:42:38 AM |
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On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:23:41 +0930, Meteorite Debris wrote:
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 15:58:56 -0400 the ET form known as
drift@lost.net<drift@lost.net> sent a radio signal across the vast expanse
of deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.--._.
On 18 Sep 2003 16:35:52 GMT, forlornh@aol.commode (Lord Calvert) wrote:
If it's thought related, it'll live forever, unfortunately. It has to
be fought by thought, Like that general who rounded up 50 muslims,
soaked his bullets in pigs blood, shot 49 of them and buried them with
the pigs, and let the 50'th one go to tell the others. That stopped it
for 50 years or so.
Urban legend about General Pershing and the Moro rebellion in the
Philippines between 1909 and 1913.
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pershing.htm
If you're thinking "fifty years ago" what you're probably thinking of
is the 1939 Gary Cooper film "The Real Glory"
Please do not confuse Hollywood with reality.
I meant 50 years commencing Pershings alleged act.
Snopes has it as "undetermined" I should have checked. Sometimes I don't
bother with exactness, it's the idea that counts, and those times
usually involve direct support of the liquor control agency.
But I think the idea is great, beat the enemy by attacking what is in
their head that makes them do crazy things, rather than just bomb the
***** out of ancient cities for their oil.
I would have thought a better approach to terrorism was not to support it
to start with. Not to have supported the mujihadeen in Afghanistan is the
80s. Not to support Israel's illegal occupation of the West Bank and Gaza
with economic and military aide (every bomb casing with American markings
that kills bystanders in a Gaza street when fired by Israeli forces is a
recruit for future terrorists more effectively than Arafat or Hamas). Not
to have supported Saddam in the 80's in his war against Iran and winked
sideways when he was developing WMDs. And not to float an entire economy
on the military-industrial complex, nor support arms exports. And finally
not to be so dependent on oil.
Don't forget not overthrowing governments such as Iran's in the 1950s.
A great deal of what's happening can be traced to that one event...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
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| User: "Meteorite Debris" |
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| Title: Re: Our role in the terror |
18 Sep 2003 09:44:16 PM |
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On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:48:12 -0400 the ET form known as
drift@lost.net<drift@lost.net> sent a radio signal across the vast
expanse of deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.--._.
On 18 Sep 2003 01:25:57 -0700, (maff) wrote:
Our role in the terror
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1044413,00.html
Karen Armstrong
Thursday September 18, 2003
The Guardian
Since the second anniversary of September 11, we have had sober
reminders that military force alone cannot eliminate the threat of
religiously inspired terrorism. There has been the dramatic, if
disputed, reappearance of Osama bin Laden; new reports that Islamist
extremism is again gaining ground in Afghanistan; and in the wake of
horrific attacks by Hamas, the Israeli right has called for the
expulsion of Yasser Arafat - a move that would almost certainly
provoke a new spate of suicide bombings.
How do we account for the rise of this religious violence in the
post-Enlightenment world? Ever since 9/11, President Bush has
repeatedly condemned Islamist terror as an atavistic rejection of
American freedom, while Tony Blair recently called it a virus, as
though, like Aids, its origins are inexplicable. They are wrong, on
both counts. The terrorists' methods are appalling, but they regard
themselves as freedom fighters, and there is nothing mysterious about
the source of these extremist groups: to a significant degree, they
are the result of our own policies.
Karen Armstrong
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&q=+%22Karen+Armstrong%22&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&q=+%22Karen+Armstrong%22&sa=N&tab=nw
http://groups.google.com/groups?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&q=+%22Karen+Armstrong%22&sa=N&tab=wg
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&q=+%22Karen+Armstrong%22&sa=N&tab=gd&cat=gwd%2FTop
Do you mean that terrorism is like cockroaches, or a drug resistant
disease: the more you fight it, the stronger it gets?
If it's thought related, it'll live forever, unfortunately. It has to
be fought by thought, Like that general who rounded up 50 muslims,
soaked his bullets in pigs blood, shot 49 of them and buried them with
the pigs, and let the 50'th one go to tell the others. That stopped it
for 50 years or so.
I have details on my other 'pooter but it's not on right now and I
haven't mirrored them completely yet.
Sounds like an urban legend.
--
To reply remove *THE_ANTI-SPAM_SHIELD*
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet -
Evil Atheist Conspiracy
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
Shhh. Be very quiet, I'm hunting automorons. Heh heh.
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever
conceived." - Isaac Asimov
Fingerprint for PGP Keys at key server or go to
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
RSA - 71 BA 7C 45 B5 4A 5F EA 72 DB EC 7F 7F A8 70 99
DSS - 9217 21A9 9C3F EB0B E302 AD0E 69C5 0F06 402E 0943
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Our role in the terror |
19 Sep 2003 07:11:00 AM |
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On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:14:16 +0930, Meteorite Debris wrote:
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:48:12 -0400 the ET form known as
drift@lost.net<drift@lost.net> sent a radio signal across the vast expanse
of deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.--._.
On 18 Sep 2003 01:25:57 -0700, (maff) wrote:
Our role in the terror
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1044413,00.html Karen
Armstrong
Thursday September 18, 2003
The Guardian
Since the second anniversary of September 11, we have had sober
reminders that military force alone cannot eliminate the threat of
religiously inspired terrorism. There has been the dramatic, if
disputed, reappearance of Osama bin Laden; new reports that Islamist
extremism is again gaining ground in Afghanistan; and in the wake of
horrific attacks by Hamas, the Israeli right has called for the
expulsion of Yasser Arafat - a move that would almost certainly provoke
a new spate of suicide bombings.
How do we account for the rise of this religious violence in the
post-Enlightenment world? Ever since 9/11, President Bush has
repeatedly condemned Islamist terror as an atavistic rejection of
American freedom, while Tony Blair recently called it a virus, as
though, like Aids, its origins are inexplicable. They are wrong, on
both counts. The terrorists' methods are appalling, but they regard
themselves as freedom fighters, and there is nothing mysterious about
the source of these extremist groups: to a significant degree, they are
the result of our own policies.
Karen Armstrong
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&q=+%22Karen+Armstrong%22&sa=N&tab=gn
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&q=+%22Karen+Armstrong%22&sa=N&tab=nw
http://groups.google.com/groups?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&q=+%22Karen+Armstrong%22&sa=N&tab=wg
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&q=+%22Karen+Armstrong%22&sa=N&tab=gd&cat=gwd%2FTop
Do you mean that terrorism is like cockroaches, or a drug resistant
disease: the more you fight it, the stronger it gets?
If it's thought related, it'll live forever, unfortunately. It has to be
fought by thought, Like that general who rounded up 50 muslims, soaked
his bullets in pigs blood, shot 49 of them and buried them with the
pigs, and let the 50'th one go to tell the others. That stopped it for
50 years or so.
I have details on my other 'pooter but it's not on right now and I
haven't mirrored them completely yet.
Sounds like an urban legend.
It is.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Our role in the terror |
19 Sep 2003 07:10:53 AM |
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On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:48:12 -0400, drift wrote:
If it's thought related, it'll live forever, unfortunately. It has to be
fought by thought, Like that general who rounded up 50 muslims, soaked his
bullets in pigs blood, shot 49 of them and buried them with the pigs, and
let the 50'th one go to tell the others. That stopped it for 50 years or
so.
Myth.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
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