| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Damian John Paul Brown" |
| Date: |
01 Mar 2004 04:42:47 PM |
| Object: |
Part True, Part fiction - please criticise |
I visited one of my sisters' house one day, not having visited for
some time.
She gave me the news with a smile and glint in her eyes, "You're going
to be
an Uncle again." I guessed straight away, my youngest sister was going
to
have a baby, after being married for about a year. I asked when the
baby was
due and was told September.
I was already Uncle to one, who was now aged 25 and Great Uncle to
two, daughters
to my 25 year old niece. I was very glad at the news and left feeling
that the
baby may be a boy this time, as the rest of my close family was made
up of six
sisters.
Well, living by myself, the months soon passed and September came
along quite
quickly, and was into it's second week before I remembered to pay my
younger
sister a visit. I walked across town, first calling on my niece to see
my
two Great Nieces and to find out if the baby had been born yet. My
niece's
partner was the only one at home, and at first he told me it was a
boy, then,
saying he was mistaken, he told me it was a girl. So I set off across
town
again to my younger sister's home.
On arrival, I knocked on the door and looked through the living room
window,
and for what I could make out, there was a baby in a seat in the
middle of the floor.
My sister opened the door and I congratulated her on becoming a Mum.
Then I
saw for real, the little miracle of a child with beautiful eyes and
face, only
two weeks old. I stayed for a while, chatting to my sister and asking
questions
about Jennifer, my new niece. It is just that thing about babies that
you see them
and you can't wait to see them again to see how much they have grown.
I left with a warm feeling for my new niece and family, looking
forward to visiting
again. I remember visiting a couple of times more and then when her
birthday came around,
I took a card round. This time I asked my sister if Jennifer had been
to her Grandad's
grave. My sister said that she hadn't and that she was too young to
understand about our
Dad, who had died nearly five years since. This just made me feel that
when she was old
enough I would take her to visit her Grandad's grave and try and
explain things to her.
Well, Jennifer was soon christened in Church, which was a lovely
family occasion, and I
visited my Dad's grave in the same day, longing to be able to show
Jennifer the peacefullness
of the place. I said my usual prayers at the grave of "Our Father" and
"Hail Mary" and
for a moment I heard my Dad's voice, not audibly, saying "Bring Jenny
to the grave".
This gave me inspiration and made my faith stronger as some sort of
proof of everlasting
life.
Jenny's second birthday soon came around, and I took a card round
again. Jenny was able
to talk kind of small talk now and say certain words, and she already
knew one Grandad.
So I asked my sister if she would take us to the cemetery to see
Grandad's grave, and she
quite happily agreed to drive us there, which was a kind of luxury to
me as I mainly walked
there. I started talking to Jenny, saying we were going to see Grandad
in Heaven and my
sister just played along with me.
We got to the cemetery and I asked my sister to park at the gates, as
I didn't like to see
cars in the cemetery. We walked the couple of hundred yards to the
grave, and I held Jenny's
hand, explaining that the wind was Grandad blowing her a kiss. We
reached the grave and I
let go of Jenny's hand so that I could say my usual prayers. Jenny
immediately went to the
side of the grave and took a closer look at the headstone. I closed my
eyes and recited
the "Our Father" out loud, and as I ended it, I heard Jenny proclaim
"Grandad", This made
me open my eyes, and to my great surprise I saw the most wonderful
thing. There were three
miniature figures sat on the mantle of the headstone.
I was so shocked that I fell to my knees and immediately I saw the
figures moving. I could
recognise that the one on the left facing me was my Dad. On this
recognition I exclaimed
"Dad", and my Dad responded quite calmly, "This is Jesus and the Lord
the Creator".
By this time Jenny was giggling and trying to touch the figures,
whilst my sister asked what
was going on. She obviously couldn't see anything.
Then, my Dad just said, "What about the Hail Mary ?". I was still
trying to come to terms
with what was happening, but I managed to say the "Hail Mary". And
suddenly another figure
appeared to the right of my Dad. I noticed it was a lady, and my Dad
just said, "This is
my Mum, Lad", as this is who my Dad is buried with. Before I could say
anything my Dad got
on his kness and prayed the "Our Father" and another figure appeared.
My Dad introduced him,
"This is your Grandad Francis, my Dad". I just thought, "This could go
on forever".
"True Faith is not just when you believe in God and yourself, it is when others begin to believe in you as well" - Damian John Paul Brown 2004
http://www.phpexpert.org/truefaith.htm
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| User: "Hamish McNugget" |
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| Title: Re: Part True, Part fiction - please criticise |
02 Mar 2004 03:29:16 AM |
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Damian John Paul Brown recently shared the following:
[...]
....... We walked the couple of hundred yards to the grave, and I held Jenny's hand,
explaining that the wind was Grandad blowing her a kiss.
Lying to a child. That is something to be proud of.
--
McN
aa# 2134 a-vet#20
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Part True, Part fiction - please criticise |
02 Mar 2004 08:54:51 AM |
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In article <s8f740976m8q2saptg7s5h159ahqpmlv6f@4ax.com>, Damian John Paul Brown
says...
snip
Boring and silly (Well, you asked).
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Part True, Part fiction - please criticise |
02 Mar 2004 09:34:02 AM |
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Lo, many moons past, on Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:42:47 +0000 (UTC), a
stranger called by some Damian John Paul Brown <damian@phpexpert.org>
came forth and told this tale in alt.atheism
I visited one of my sisters' house one day, not having visited for
some time.
Sorry, but this is just awful. No narrative thread, no strong point
of view, no dialog.
Enroll in a Creative Writing class.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
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| User: "Mark Richardson" |
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| Title: Re: Part True, Part fiction - please criticise |
01 Mar 2004 06:53:25 PM |
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On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:42:47 +0000 (UTC), Damian John Paul Brown
<damian@phpexpert.org> wrote:
<snip>
We got to the cemetery and I asked my sister to park at the gates, as
I didn't like to see
cars in the cemetery. We walked the couple of hundred yards to the
grave, and I held Jenny's
hand, explaining that the wind was Grandad blowing her a kiss. We
reached the grave and I
let go of Jenny's hand so that I could say my usual prayers. Jenny
immediately went to the
side of the grave and took a closer look at the headstone. I closed my
eyes and recited
the "Our Father" out loud, and as I ended it, I heard Jenny proclaim
"Grandad", This made
me open my eyes, and to my great surprise I saw the most wonderful
thing. There were three
miniature figures sat on the mantle of the headstone.
I was so shocked that I fell to my knees and immediately I saw the
figures moving. I could
recognise that the one on the left facing me was my Dad. On this
recognition I exclaimed
"Dad", and my Dad responded quite calmly, "This is Jesus and the Lord
the Creator".
By this time Jenny was giggling and trying to touch the figures,
whilst my sister asked what
was going on. She obviously couldn't see anything.
Then, my Dad just said, "What about the Hail Mary ?". I was still
trying to come to terms
with what was happening, but I managed to say the "Hail Mary". And
suddenly another figure
appeared to the right of my Dad. I noticed it was a lady, and my Dad
just said, "This is
my Mum, Lad", as this is who my Dad is buried with. Before I could say
anything my Dad got
on his kness and prayed the "Our Father" and another figure appeared.
My Dad introduced him,
"This is your Grandad Francis, my Dad". I just thought, "This could go
on forever".
This is the fictional part right? 8-)
Some people do "see" ghosts.
The mind can conjure up images of people and places far removed form
us in time and space. We give life to ghosts - they live in our minds.
Your niece (if she is real and not fiction!) lives in reality AND in
your mind - her existence does not depend on your mind creating her.
She is represented in your mind and everyone that knows her has their
own representation of her - but there is (I assume!) an actual little
girl that exists in the reality that contains our world, our bodies,
and our minds, that is the source of all the *representations* that
live in the minds of the people that know her.
Ghosts (and gods) live ***only*** in your mind - they have no
existence outside of your mind.
Your story tries to say that visiting and seeing your sister is the
same as visiting the apparition of your dead father.
That is it is trying to say that there is no distinction between
fantasy and reality.
I disagree.
I believe there is a reality that our perceptions imperfectly grasp.
There are two kinds of people in the world ... they are aliens to each
other.
Mark.
--
Mark Richardson mDOTrichardsonATutasDOTeduDOTau
Member of S.M.A.S.H.
(Sarcastic Middle aged Atheists with a Sense of Humour)
-----------------------------------------------------
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| User: "Steve Knight" |
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| Title: Re: Part True, Part fiction - please criticise |
01 Mar 2004 06:42:35 PM |
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On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:42:47 +0000 (UTC), Damian John Paul Brown
<damian@phpexpert.org> wrote:
snip really fucking boring idiocy;
for a moment I heard my Dad's voice, not audibly, saying "Bring Jenny
to the grave".
Sounds like Dad has some molestation issues.
Warlord Steve
BAAWA
www.sonic.net/~wooly
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| User: "Damian John Paul Brown" |
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| Title: Re: Part True, Part fiction - please criticise |
01 Mar 2004 07:23:18 PM |
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On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 00:42:35 GMT, Steve Knight <wooooly@sonic.net>
wrote:
On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:42:47 +0000 (UTC), Damian John Paul Brown
<damian@phpexpert.org> wrote:
snip really fucking boring idiocy;
for a moment I heard my Dad's voice, not audibly, saying "Bring Jenny
to the grave".
Sounds like Dad has some molestation issues.
Steve, try not to speak ill of the dead
or maybe you think it is ok to call someone who is experiencing
Everlasting Life
"True Faith is not just when you believe in God and yourself, it is when others begin to believe in you as well" - Damian John Paul Brown 2004
http://www.phpexpert.org/truefaith.htm
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| User: "Steve Knight" |
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| Title: Re: Part True, Part fiction - please criticise |
02 Mar 2004 06:40:19 AM |
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On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 01:23:18 +0000 (UTC), Damian John Paul Brown
<damian@phpexpert.org> wrote:
On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 00:42:35 GMT, Steve Knight <wooooly@sonic.net>
wrote:
On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:42:47 +0000 (UTC), Damian John Paul Brown
<damian@phpexpert.org> wrote:
snip really fucking boring idiocy;
for a moment I heard my Dad's voice, not audibly, saying "Bring Jenny
to the grave".
Sounds like Dad has some molestation issues.
Steve, try not to speak ill of the dead
or maybe you think it is ok to call someone who is experiencing
Everlasting Life
He's a cadaver, Twit.
The only thing he's experiencing is everlasting decay. I wonder if
any water has seeped in yet? That's when it gets messy.
Warlord Steve
BAAWA
www.sonic.net/~wooly
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: Part True, Part fiction - please criticise |
01 Mar 2004 09:40:03 PM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Damian John Paul Brown:
[snip]
Nice story. Albeit mired in fantasy... Congratulations on becoming an
uncle (again). The reproduction of human life is a wonderful thing.
Miraculous? No. Is it a miracle when a puppy is born? What about bear
cubs? What about a nest of black widow spiders? Same natural process,
same lack of miracle. Is it a miracle when a rapist's son is born of his
victim's womb because she decided to exercise her choice and have the
child because it was part her? OK, enough.
I'm sorry to hear you would lead a child, not even your own, into a world
of fantasy viewed (by her respected uncle) as fact. However, this type
of thing earns a pat on the back by church elders, so you must be
thrilled. Some day I hope this type of thing is ruled illegal.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Plonked by Angelicusrex 2/24/04
______________
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God".
The wise man announces it to the world.
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| User: "Damian John Paul Brown" |
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| Title: Re: Part True, Part fiction - please criticise |
01 Mar 2004 09:52:27 PM |
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On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 03:40:03 GMT, Vic Sagerquist
<address@withheld.com> wrote:
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Damian John Paul Brown:
[snip]
Nice story. Albeit mired in fantasy... Congratulations on becoming an
uncle (again). The reproduction of human life is a wonderful thing.
Miraculous? No. Is it a miracle when a puppy is born? What about bear
cubs? What about a nest of black widow spiders? Same natural process,
same lack of miracle. Is it a miracle when a rapist's son is born of his
victim's womb because she decided to exercise her choice and have the
child because it was part her? OK, enough.
I'm sorry to hear you would lead a child, not even your own, into a world
of fantasy viewed (by her respected uncle) as fact. However, this type
of thing earns a pat on the back by church elders, so you must be
thrilled. Some day I hope this type of thing is ruled illegal.
the whole point of the story is to seperate Truth from fiction, Vic
I have used reality of Spirituality to convey some form of Truth
you may not believe it, but my Dad does talk to me, and this is
what I class as Beautiful
I only hope that others who lose Parents may experience such Joy
and no, you don't have to be Catholic for such a Gift to be thrown
your way
"True Faith is not just when you believe in God and yourself, it is when others begin to believe in you as well" - Damian John Paul Brown 2004
http://www.phpexpert.org/truefaith.htm
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: Part True, Part fiction - please criticise |
02 Mar 2004 11:10:17 AM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Damian John Paul Brown:
Reality of spirituality?
Oxymoron.
We consider that to be along the same line as "reality of sorcery".
Your Dad does not talk to you. I'm sorry, he cannot. He's dead. Your
imagination talks to you, and you should probably either see a doctor about
it, or publish a book about it and make millions.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Plonked by Angelicusrex 2/24/04
______________
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God".
The wise man announces it to the world.
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| User: "Lord Calvert" |
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| Title: Re: Part True, Part fiction - please criticise |
02 Mar 2004 07:35:49 PM |
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Reality of spirituality?
Oxymoron.
We consider that to be along the same line as "reality of sorcery".
Well, it is helpful to understand that the founders of Spiritualism, Kate and
Maggie Fox, later admitted that they were frauds. Later in her life Maggie Fox
gave detailed descriptions of how the tricks were accomplished and admitted
that it was "an April-fool's prank that got out of hand."
Still, the need for weak minded and weak willed people to believe, even when
their beliefs are proven to be fraudulent, is exceptionally strong. As long as
that remains the case con-men in clerical robes will continue to extort money
from their flocks and keep doing it. That's why preachers are often called
shepherds...the only purpose of the sheep is to be fleeced, sheared and fucked.
Rich Goranson, Amherst, NY, USA (aa#MCMXCIX, a-vet#1)
EAC Department of Applied Rattan Use
"Without faith we might relapse into scientific or rational thinking, which
leads by a slippery slope toward constitutional democracy." - Robert Anton
Wilson
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: Part True, Part fiction - please criticise |
02 Mar 2004 08:38:14 PM |
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forlornh@aol.complex (Lord Calvert) honored us in alt.atheism with the
following discourse:
Reality of spirituality?
Oxymoron.
We consider that to be along the same line as "reality of sorcery".
Well, it is helpful to understand that the founders of Spiritualism,
Kate and Maggie Fox, later admitted that they were frauds. Later in
her life Maggie Fox gave detailed descriptions of how the tricks were
accomplished and admitted that it was "an April-fool's prank that got
out of hand."
Still, the need for weak minded and weak willed people to believe,
even when their beliefs are proven to be fraudulent, is exceptionally
strong. As long as that remains the case con-men in clerical robes
will continue to extort money from their flocks and keep doing it.
That's why preachers are often called shepherds...the only purpose of
the sheep is to be fleeced, sheared and fucked.
and occasionally barbequed...
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political institution for the control of
people's thoughts, lives, and actions; based on
ancient myths and superstitions perpetrated through
generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
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| User: "Damian John Paul Brown" |
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| Title: Re: Part True, Part fiction - please criticise |
02 Mar 2004 12:16:59 PM |
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On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:10:17 -0600, (Vic
Sagerquist) wrote:
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Damian John Paul Brown:
Reality of spirituality?
Oxymoron.
We consider that to be along the same line as "reality of sorcery".
Your Dad does not talk to you. I'm sorry, he cannot. He's dead. Your
imagination talks to you, and you should probably either see a doctor about
it, or publish a book about it and make millions.
Thank You Vic
you have given me a vote of confidence
although I doubt the book that I am putting together will make
millions, but I am willing to try with Hope
"True Faith is not just when you believe in God and yourself, it is when others begin to believe in you as well" - Damian John Paul Brown 2004
http://www.phpexpert.org/truefaith.htm
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| User: "Steve Knight" |
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| Title: Re: Part True, Part fiction - please criticise |
02 Mar 2004 06:47:11 PM |
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On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:16:59 +0000 (UTC), Damian John Paul Brown
<damian@phpexpert.org> wrote:
snip
I doubt the book that I am putting together will make
millions, but I am willing to try with Hope
Why don't you get a bunch of monkeys to help you. It couldn't hurt.
I bet your Dad is spinning in his grave knowing what an ***** you're
making of yourself in front of thousands of people.
If you were my kid, I'd whack you with a hammer and hope you got
better.
Warlord Steve
BAAWA
www.sonic.net/~wooly
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