| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Bill" |
| Date: |
28 Jan 2005 05:56:29 PM |
| Object: |
Passion of Christ |
I watched the Passion of Christ movie for the first time last night. It was
almost pure blood and gore. It certainly was not uplifting religion.
I cannot understand how any sane person could believe that any real God
would put himself through such humiliation and torture? Why live for 33
years as a poor carpenter to bring his word to only a miniscule portion of
the human race and then die a humiliating and painful death by being
tortured and nailed on a cross with two criminals?
After all, God created man and mans sins. If he was a real God why didn't he
just forgive them without all the cruelty, torture and gore? And why didn't
he appear to the whole world and inform people directly that he was God and
what he expected of them? Why did he wait 100,000 years after man was on the
earth to so indirectly and ineffectively deliver his message. Why did he
create man with such nasty habits in the first place?
Many fairy tales are more believable than this gruesome story.
--
Bill
.
|
|
| User: "SReeseMe" |
|
| Title: Re: Passion of Christ |
29 Jan 2005 12:49:41 PM |
|
|
<< Subject: Passion of Christ
From: "Bill"
Date: Fri, Jan 28, 2005 12:56 PM
Message-id: <h1vKd.35114$8u5.19332@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
I watched the Passion of Christ movie for the first time last night. It was
almost pure blood and gore. It certainly was not uplifting religion.
I cannot understand how any sane person could believe that any real God
would put himself through such humiliation and torture? Why live for 33
years as a poor carpenter to bring his word to only a miniscule portion of
the human race and then die a humiliating and painful death by being
tortured and nailed on a cross with two criminals? >><BR><BR>
Being more of a cynic I look at it the opposite way. Isn't an all powerful god
being nailed to a cross more or less same thing as Superman being shot with a
..22 revolver?
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Zadok" |
|
| Title: Re: Passion of Christ |
28 Jan 2005 11:51:16 PM |
|
|
"Bill" <> wrote in message
Many fairy tales are more believable than this gruesome story.
That's because it is a fairy tale.
Now think. Little Red Riding Hood.
Doesn't the big bad wolf eat Gramma.
Don't religionists think the wafer and wine are the body and blood of Jesus.
I mean like the real body and blood.
The Big Bad Wolves are eating Jesus. Booooo Hoooooo.
.
|
|
|
| User: "valhalla" |
|
| Title: Re: Passion of Christ |
29 Jan 2005 07:02:15 AM |
|
|
"Zadok" <nobler@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
news:UdAKd.75557$Qb.62901@edtnps89...
"Bill" <> wrote in message
Many fairy tales are more believable than this gruesome story.
That's because it is a fairy tale.
Now think. Little Red Riding Hood.
Doesn't the big bad wolf eat Gramma.
Small compared to the lessons of Jesus.
Don't religionists think the wafer and wine are the body and blood of
Jesus.
I mean like the real body and blood.
The Big Bad Wolves are eating Jesus. Booooo Hoooooo.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "navi-gater" |
|
| Title: Re: Passion of Christ |
29 Jan 2005 02:15:19 AM |
|
|
"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in
news:h1vKd.35114$8u5.19332@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
I watched the Passion of Christ movie for the first time last night.
It was almost pure blood and gore. It certainly was not uplifting
religion.
I cannot understand how any sane person could believe that any real
God would put himself through such humiliation and torture? Why live
for 33 years as a poor carpenter to bring his word to only a miniscule
portion of the human race and then die a humiliating and painful death
by being tortured and nailed on a cross with two criminals?
Ummm - it was just a film, not a documentary.
What goes in is whatever the maker wants...for the viewer it's just
entertainment.
Some people get their kicks watching comedy, horror, action, sex or in this
case a bit of simulated torture/murder.
gater.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "valhalla" |
|
| Title: Re: Passion of Christ |
29 Jan 2005 06:24:12 AM |
|
|
"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:h1vKd.35114$8u5.19332@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
I watched the Passion of Christ movie for the first time last night. It
was
almost pure blood and gore. It certainly was not uplifting religion.
I cannot understand how any sane person could believe that any real God
would put himself through such humiliation and torture?
Considering all the things people believe, this statement has little weight.
Why live for 33
years as a poor carpenter to bring his word to only a miniscule portion of
the human race and then die a humiliating and painful death by being
tortured and nailed on a cross with two criminals?
That miniscule portion has undeniably turned into an unbelievable majority.
(2 billion)
After all, God created man and mans sins. If he was a real God why didn't
he
just forgive them without all the cruelty, torture and gore?
God created man with the ability ro choose between good and evil. Evil is
the absence of
good. So one can choose not to do good (evil).
And why didn't
he appear to the whole world and inform people directly that he was God
and
what he expected of them?
He did, and we killed him.
Why did he wait 100,000 years after man was on the
earth to so indirectly and ineffectively deliver his message.
Evolution is true. We took that long to understand.
Why did he
create man with such nasty habits in the first place?
He didn't. See Genesis.
Many fairy tales are more believable than this gruesome story.
That is relative to what you are willing to believe.
--
Bill
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bill" |
|
| Title: Re: Passion of Christ |
29 Jan 2005 08:23:09 PM |
|
|
2 Billion is NOT a majority in a world of over 6.5 Billion.
In 1492 95% of the world population believed the world was flat and that the
Son, Moon,
Stars and Planets revolved around the Earth. We now know they were wrong.
Numbers and percentages of people believing something is NO
EVIDENCE of it's truth - just like silly religious beliefs and
superstitions.
--
Bill
"valhalla" <valhalla@ev1.com> wrote in message
news:10vmb1d1hpe7u8b@corp.supernews.com...
"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:h1vKd.35114$8u5.19332@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
I watched the Passion of Christ movie for the first time last night. It
was
almost pure blood and gore. It certainly was not uplifting religion.
I cannot understand how any sane person could believe that any real God
would put himself through such humiliation and torture?
Considering all the things people believe, this statement has little
weight.
Why live for 33
years as a poor carpenter to bring his word to only a miniscule portion
of
the human race and then die a humiliating and painful death by being
tortured and nailed on a cross with two criminals?
That miniscule portion has undeniably turned into an unbelievable
majority.
(2 billion)
After all, God created man and mans sins. If he was a real God why
didn't
he
just forgive them without all the cruelty, torture and gore?
God created man with the ability ro choose between good and evil. Evil is
the absence of
good. So one can choose not to do good (evil).
And why didn't
he appear to the whole world and inform people directly that he was God
and
what he expected of them?
He did, and we killed him.
Why did he wait 100,000 years after man was on the
earth to so indirectly and ineffectively deliver his message.
Evolution is true. We took that long to understand.
Why did he
create man with such nasty habits in the first place?
He didn't. See Genesis.
Many fairy tales are more believable than this gruesome story.
That is relative to what you are willing to believe.
--
Bill
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Douglas Berry" |
|
| Title: Re: Passion of Christ |
29 Jan 2005 05:56:38 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 00:24:12 -0600, "valhalla" <valhalla@ev1.com>
drained his beer, leaned back in the alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly
proclaimed the following
That miniscule portion has undeniably turned into an unbelievable majority.
(2 billion)
The current world population is 6.5 billion, more or less.
http://www.ibiblio.org/lunarbin/worldpop
The total number of christians in the world is 2.015 billion.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm
That's 31%. A majority would be 51% or better. An "unbelievable
majority" would have to hit the 75%+ level in my view.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Al Klein" |
|
| Title: Re: Passion of Christ |
29 Jan 2005 08:27:07 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 00:24:12 -0600, "valhalla" <valhalla@ev1.com> said
in alt.atheism:
That miniscule portion has undeniably turned into an unbelievable majority.
(2 billion)
2 billion out of 6+ billion is a pretty small MINORITY (less than
1/3). And not all of that 2 billion is really Christian. Most
atheists are counted as part of that 2 billion.
Do you also include Mormons as Christians? Catholics? Jehovah's
Witnesses?
God created man with the ability ro choose between good and evil.
Knowing that man would choose evil. So it's his responsibility.
And why didn't
he appear to the whole world and inform people directly that he was God and
what he expected of them?
He did
No, Jesus claimed that he WAS NOT his father.
Why did he wait 100,000 years after man was on the
earth to so indirectly and ineffectively deliver his message.
Evolution is true. We took that long to understand.
Cro Magnon man was as intelligent as many people today (possibly more
intelligent than most). Sorry, but that's not an answer.
Why did he
create man with such nasty habits in the first place?
He didn't. See Genesis.
He didn't create us? Genesis says he did. Someone changed us from
the way he created us? Chapter and verse?
Many fairy tales are more believable than this gruesome story.
That is relative to what you are willing to believe.
True. And you're evidently willing to believe any nonsense they
brainwashed you with when you were a little child.
--
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "jw no" |
|
| Title: Re: Passion of Christ |
30 Jan 2005 02:23:55 PM |
|
|
"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:h1vKd.35114$8u5.19332@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
I watched the Passion of Christ movie for the first time last night. It
was
almost pure blood and gore. It certainly was not uplifting religion.
I cannot understand how any sane person could believe that any real God
would put himself through such humiliation and torture? Why live for 33
years as a poor carpenter to bring his word to only a miniscule portion of
the human race and then die a humiliating and painful death by being
tortured and nailed on a cross with two criminals?
After all, God created man and mans sins. If he was a real God why didn't
he
just forgive them without all the cruelty, torture and gore? And why
didn't
he appear to the whole world and inform people directly that he was God
and
what he expected of them? Why did he wait 100,000 years after man was on
the
earth to so indirectly and ineffectively deliver his message. Why did he
create man with such nasty habits in the first place?
Many fairy tales are more believable than this gruesome story.
--
Bill
Because of His great love for us, God earnestly wants to have a loving
relationship with mankind in general, and with each individual. However,
"our sins have separated us from our God and have hidden His face from
us..."(Isaiah 59:2).
God has said "For I am the Lord your God, consecrate yourselves and be holy,
for I am holy. " (Leviticus 11). The "cruelty, torture, and gore" was to
demonstrate to us just how much our sins offend and anger God. God's perfect
justice required Him to punish sin. He could not just sweep it under the
rug.
God knows that His justice demands that our punishment for sin is eternal,
"Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to
everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt."
(Daniel 12)
To satisfy the just penalty that had to be paid, an innocent substitute
could be allowed to take the punishment in our place. Jesus Christ "is able
to save completely and forever those who come to God through Him, since He
always lives to make intercession for them. For such a High Priest was
fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and
has become higher than the heavens; who does not need...to offer up
sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people's..." (Hebrews
7). "Christ died for our sins, according to the Scriptures, he was buried,
and He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures."
"He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities;
The punishment for our peace was upon Him, And by His wounds we are healed.
All of us, like sheep, have gone astray; Each of us has turned away to his
own way, But the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all." (Isaiah 53).
Jesus Christ is the Son of God; that is, he is equal with the Father in His
very essence and nature and is also God. As the psalmist wrote: "Your
throne, O God, is forever and ever;...therefore God, your God, has anointed
you with the oil of gladness more than Your companions. (Psalm 45). In this
passage, we read that one individual who is God is talking to another who is
God.
That is not insanity, that is love, that someone would be willing to suffer
for another person in order to spare the other person. If a soldier would
die in the line of duty while protecting someone else from getting hurt, we
would not say he was insane, we would call him a hero. Well, Jesus Christ
did essentially the same thing. Only "He who knew no sin became sin for us
so that we could have the righteousness of God."
God offers forgiveness and eternal life as a free gift. "for it is by grace
that we are saved through faith, and not of ourselves, it is the gift of
God, not as the result of works, so that no one can boast." (Ephesians
2:8-9).
"Therefore, God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son
(Jesus). He who has the Son has the life, he who does not have the Son of
God does not have the life...For the Scripture says 'whoever believes on Him
will not be disappointed...for whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord
Jesus shall be saved." (1 John 5; Romans 10:11-13).
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jos Flachs" |
|
| Title: Re: Passion of Christ |
31 Jan 2005 05:56:53 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 09:23:55 -0500, "jw" <no
spam_j.aemtp@pa0nline.c0m> wrote:
Because of His great love for us, God earnestly wants to have a loving
relationship with mankind in general, and with each individual.
Therefore he send his beloved nitwit John Weatherly to alt.atheism to
show disasters really can happen.
John, you actually make me wonder if the devil exists. He'd be
laughing his ***** off over your silly attempts to convert the heathens.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Budikka666" |
|
| Title: Re: Passion of Christ |
01 Feb 2005 08:03:39 AM |
|
|
jw wrote:
Because of His great love for us, God earnestly wants
to have a loving relationship with mankind in general,
Is that why he sent St. Stephen's Tsunami - to show the people of the
Indian ocean basin how much he loves them?
God has said "For I am the Lord your God,
No he hasn't. All you are doing is quoting anonymous, primitive and
scientifically ignorant scribes who **CLAIM** this is what some god
said. Try again.
God knows that His justice demands that our punishment
for sin is eternal,
Why? And how can this possibly tie in with your claim above that this
god loves us? This is what we atheists technically term "*****".
Jesus Christ "is able to save completely and forever
those who come to God through Him,
Where is your evidence there ever was a Jesus? All you have is a few
ancient scrolls, none of which are original, and with no way of
determining if what was written bore any relation to what, if anything,
happened. The NT gospels are rip-offs of earlier material and are
contradictory. The earliest NT works barely acknowledge a Jesus and
make no effort to establish his reality.
Everything you have written is the words of men. Not one thing is the
word of any god. It's words that **MEN** who claim a god said. We
have absolutely no reason whatsoever to trust these anonymous and
contradictory story-tellers who have demonstrably lied.
Try again.
Budikka
.
|
|
|
| User: "jw no" |
|
| Title: Re: Passion of Christ |
01 Feb 2005 12:42:44 PM |
|
|
"Budikka666" <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1107245019.690393.316430@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Is that why he sent St. Stephen's Tsunami - to show the people of the
Indian ocean basin how much he loves them?
Well, if there is no God, then why does it matter if there was a Tsunami?
And don't waste your compassion on the victims because 100 years from now
they will all be dead anyway - right? It's the old evolutionary "survival
of the fittest"
God has said "For I am the Lord your God,
No he hasn't. All you are doing is quoting anonymous, primitive and
scientifically ignorant scribes who **CLAIM** this is what some god
said. Try again.
God knows that His justice demands that our punishment
for sin is eternal,
Why? And how can this possibly tie in with your claim above that this
god loves us? This is what we atheists technically term "*****".
Why? Because sin is breaking the law, and justice demands that a penalty be
paid. How does this tie in to my claim that God loves us? Because He
suffered our punishment for us so that we would not have to suffer for our
sins ourselves. A God who demands justice yet has paid the penalty for us
as a favor to us! Even if you don't want to believe it to be true, why is
that so bad?
Where is your evidence there ever was a Jesus? All you have is a few
ancient scrolls, none of which are original, and with no way of
determining if what was written bore any relation to what, if anything,
happened. The NT gospels are rip-offs of earlier material and are
contradictory. The earliest NT works barely acknowledge a Jesus and
make no effort to establish his reality.
A few ancient scrolls? There are over 20,000 manuscript copies of the NT
alone. Many were written within 100 years or so from the time of the
events. Compare that with Ceasars Gallic Wars, they were composed between
50-58 B.C., there are only several manuscripts - the oldest one being close
to 900 years old after Ceasar's day. In the History of Tacitus, out of 14
books written circa AD 100, only about half of them survived, and the
manuscripts came from the 9th century,
Everything you have written is the words of men. Not one thing is the
word of any god. It's words that **MEN** who claim a god said. We
have absolutely no reason whatsoever to trust these anonymous and
contradictory story-tellers who have demonstrably lied.
Try again.
They had nothing to gain by lying. Many suffered for preaching and writing
their message, some were martyred. If I were going to deliberately lie and
make up a religion, I would devise something that the people wanted and made
me popular - not something that would make me a lightning rod for rejection.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "RS" |
|
| Title: Re: Passion of Christ |
28 Jan 2005 06:21:01 PM |
|
|
"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:h1vKd.35114$8u5.19332@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
I watched the Passion of Christ movie for the first time last night. It was
almost pure blood and gore. It certainly was not uplifting religion.
I agree with you that it was almost pure blood and gore. However, to see
such a visual representation of what a man would go through to save his
friends is moving and inspiring.
I cannot understand how any sane person could believe that any real God
would put himself through such humiliation and torture? Why live for 33
years as a poor carpenter to bring his word to only a miniscule portion of
the human race and then die a humiliating and painful death by being
tortured and nailed on a cross with two criminals?
In that death, his message reached billions of people.
After all, God created man and mans sins. If he was a real God why didn't
he
just forgive them without all the cruelty, torture and gore? And why
didn't
he appear to the whole world and inform people directly that he was God
and
what he expected of them?
Those who haven't the heart to believe in Him will not see Him. During the
time of Christ, many men asked Him "Who are you?" and though he responded.
"I am the Christ" or "The Son of Man", they continued to ask Him who he was.
God doesn't want people to believe because they see, but to see because they
believe.
Why did he wait 100,000 years after man was on the
earth to so indirectly and ineffectively deliver his message.
He didn't. He manifested Himself to Adam, Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob,
David, Noah, etc. etc. etc.
Why did he
create man with such nasty habits in the first place?
Did he? Or did he create man with free will? It seems to me that we
manifested our free will for our own selfishness, not God.
Many fairy tales are more believable than this gruesome story.
--
If you believe that, so be it. I would recommend that you read Sallustius,
however. He explains quite nicely why evil is manifested in the world and
how that evil isn't a product of the Divine.
-RS
.
|
|
|
| User: "Marvin" |
|
| Title: Re: Passion of Christ |
28 Jan 2005 06:57:16 PM |
|
|
"RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> wrote in message news:ctdvqi$s1n$1@news3.bu.edu...
"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:h1vKd.35114$8u5.19332@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
I watched the Passion of Christ movie for the first time last night. It
was
almost pure blood and gore. It certainly was not uplifting religion.
I agree with you that it was almost pure blood and gore. However, to see
such a visual representation of what a man would go through to save his
friends is moving and inspiring.
I cannot understand how any sane person could believe that any real God
would put himself through such humiliation and torture? Why live for 33
years as a poor carpenter to bring his word to only a miniscule portion
of
the human race and then die a humiliating and painful death by being
tortured and nailed on a cross with two criminals?
In that death, his message reached billions of people.
not universal though, so much for ominipent.
After all, God created man and mans sins. If he was a real God why didn't
he
just forgive them without all the cruelty, torture and gore? And why
didn't
he appear to the whole world and inform people directly that he was God
and
what he expected of them?
Those who haven't the heart to believe in Him will not see Him. During
the time of Christ, many men asked Him "Who are you?" and though he
responded. "I am the Christ" or "The Son of Man", they continued to ask
Him who he was. God doesn't want people to believe because they see, but
to see because they believe.
What if people live in an remote part of the work where the word of 'God'
has not reached them? Are they damned for eternity because they never got
the message?
Let me answer, they don't give a *****, they are more intrested in local
problems, i.e. the instincts of man: eat, get laid.
Why did he wait 100,000 years after man was on the
earth to so indirectly and ineffectively deliver his message.
He didn't. He manifested Himself to Adam, Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob,
David, Noah, etc. etc. etc.
So why stop at Jesus? Did he just give up?! lol. 2000ish years and
counting, people are losing faith here, crack on with it, gawd..
Why did he
create man with such nasty habits in the first place?
Did he? Or did he create man with free will? It seems to me that we
manifested our free will for our own selfishness, not God.
free will - another get out of jail card, classic.
Many fairy tales are more believable than this gruesome story.
--
I really believed in the tooth fairy, then I learnt the 'trick'
If you believe that, so be it. I would recommend that you read
Sallustius, however. He explains quite nicely why evil is manifested in
the world and how that evil isn't a product of the Divine.
humans would do better to get off their knee's, forget about an afterlife
and get on with this life - humanity.
-RS
Marvin
###########################################
You wake up in the morning, get something for the pot
Wonder why the sun makes the rocks feel hot
Draw on the walls, eat, get laid
Back in the good old days
- Roger Waters
.
|
|
|
| User: "valhalla" |
|
| Title: Re: Passion of Christ |
29 Jan 2005 06:42:19 AM |
|
|
"Marvin" <marvinadams42@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fKqdnZjIbeOQFmfcRVnyvw@pipex.net...
"RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> wrote in message news:ctdvqi$s1n$1@news3.bu.edu...
"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:h1vKd.35114$8u5.19332@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
I watched the Passion of Christ movie for the first time last night. It
was
almost pure blood and gore. It certainly was not uplifting religion.
I agree with you that it was almost pure blood and gore. However, to
see
such a visual representation of what a man would go through to save his
friends is moving and inspiring.
I cannot understand how any sane person could believe that any real God
would put himself through such humiliation and torture? Why live for 33
years as a poor carpenter to bring his word to only a miniscule portion
of
the human race and then die a humiliating and painful death by being
tortured and nailed on a cross with two criminals?
In that death, his message reached billions of people.
not universal though, so much for ominipent.
His message HAS reacheed billions.
After all, God created man and mans sins. If he was a real God why
didn't
he
just forgive them without all the cruelty, torture and gore? And why
didn't
he appear to the whole world and inform people directly that he was God
and
what he expected of them?
Those who haven't the heart to believe in Him will not see Him. During
the time of Christ, many men asked Him "Who are you?" and though he
responded. "I am the Christ" or "The Son of Man", they continued to ask
Him who he was. God doesn't want people to believe because they see, but
to see because they believe.
What if people live in an remote part of the work where the word of 'God'
has not reached them? Are they damned for eternity because they never got
the message?
Let me answer, they don't give a *****, they are more intrested in local
problems, i.e. the instincts of man: eat, get laid.
What a riiculously limited view you have. Once humans have mastered thier
most
basic problems; eat, shelter, etc.. thier first instinct is to philosophise
about God and existance.
Why did he wait 100,000 years after man was on the
earth to so indirectly and ineffectively deliver his message.
He didn't. He manifested Himself to Adam, Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob,
David, Noah, etc. etc. etc.
So why stop at Jesus? Did he just give up?! lol. 2000ish years and
counting, people are losing faith here, crack on with it, gawd..
Yes. Jesus was the prologue.
Why did he
create man with such nasty habits in the first place?
Did he? Or did he create man with free will? It seems to me that we
manifested our free will for our own selfishness, not God.
free will - another get out of jail card, classic.
Your dis is not a real reason. And, if anything, is a real reason.
Many fairy tales are more believable than this gruesome story.
--
I really believed in the tooth fairy, then I learnt the 'trick'\
God and the Tooth Fairy. Very different. One collects teeth, the other is
the Creator.
If you believe that, so be it. I would recommend that you read
Sallustius, however. He explains quite nicely why evil is manifested in
the world and how that evil isn't a product of the Divine.
humans would do better to get off their knee's, forget about an afterlife
and get on with this life - humanity.
You sound like a person who can disprove the afterlife. I'd love to hear it.
-RS
Marvin
###########################################
You wake up in the morning, get something for the pot
Wonder why the sun makes the rocks feel hot
Draw on the walls, eat, get laid
Back in the good old days
- Roger Waters
.
|
|
|
| User: "Marvin" |
|
| Title: Re: Passion of Christ |
29 Jan 2005 04:03:30 PM |
|
|
"valhalla" <valhalla@ev1.com> wrote in message
news:10vmc3chjqa6r90@corp.supernews.com...
"Marvin" <marvinadams42@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fKqdnZjIbeOQFmfcRVnyvw@pipex.net...
"RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> wrote in message news:ctdvqi$s1n$1@news3.bu.edu...
"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:h1vKd.35114$8u5.19332@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
I watched the Passion of Christ movie for the first time last night. It
was
almost pure blood and gore. It certainly was not uplifting religion.
I agree with you that it was almost pure blood and gore. However, to
see
such a visual representation of what a man would go through to save his
friends is moving and inspiring.
I cannot understand how any sane person could believe that any real
God
would put himself through such humiliation and torture? Why live for
33
years as a poor carpenter to bring his word to only a miniscule
portion
of
the human race and then die a humiliating and painful death by being
tortured and nailed on a cross with two criminals?
In that death, his message reached billions of people.
not universal though, so much for ominipent.
His message HAS reacheed billions.
John Lennon's death reached more, I miss him more than your so called god.
After all, God created man and mans sins. If he was a real God why
didn't
he
just forgive them without all the cruelty, torture and gore? And why
didn't
he appear to the whole world and inform people directly that he was
God
and
what he expected of them?
Those who haven't the heart to believe in Him will not see Him. During
the time of Christ, many men asked Him "Who are you?" and though he
responded. "I am the Christ" or "The Son of Man", they continued to ask
Him who he was. God doesn't want people to believe because they see,
but
to see because they believe.
What if people live in an remote part of the work where the word of 'God'
has not reached them? Are they damned for eternity because they never
got
the message?
Let me answer, they don't give a *****, they are more interested in local
problems, i.e. the instincts of man: eat, get laid.
What a riiculously limited view you have. Once humans have mastered thier
most
basic problems; eat, shelter, etc.. thier first instinct is to
philosophise
about God and existance.
What the ***** are you talking about 'instinct to philosophise about God and
existence. It's not an instinct, its curiosity derived from puzzlement.
God is used to explain when man cannot comprehend, it's the biggest cop-out
of natural history.
Why did he wait 100,000 years after man was on the
earth to so indirectly and ineffectively deliver his message.
He didn't. He manifested Himself to Adam, Moses, Abraham, Isaac,
Jacob,
David, Noah, etc. etc. etc.
So why stop at Jesus? Did he just give up?! lol. 2000ish years and
counting, people are losing faith here, crack on with it, gawd..
Yes. Jesus was the prologue.
Of a super-myth.
Why did he
create man with such nasty habits in the first place?
Did he? Or did he create man with free will? It seems to me that we
manifested our free will for our own selfishness, not God.
free will - another get out of jail card, classic.
Your dis is not a real reason. And, if anything, is a real reason.
Congratulations, you're an idiot.
Many fairy tales are more believable than this gruesome story.
--
I really believed in the tooth fairy, then I learnt the 'trick'\
God and the Tooth Fairy. Very different. One collects teeth, the other is
the Creator.
Let me tell you, the tooth fairy doesn't collect teeth, it's all a myth.
Let me tell you something else, your God is a myth. I know you can't help
thinking like this, you were told to think like that. You may get over it,
you may not, but in the end you'll never know, you'll be DEAD.
If you believe that, so be it. I would recommend that you read
Sallustius, however. He explains quite nicely why evil is manifested
in
the world and how that evil isn't a product of the Divine.
humans would do better to get off their knee's, forget about an afterlife
and get on with this life - humanity.
You sound like a person who can disprove the afterlife. I'd love to hear
it.
Stop being so selfish to this life and dreaming about living forever. You
never lived before you was born and you'll never live after you are dead.
Get over it.
Are you really going to waste your finite time here on Earth just on
hope...? For you, I hope not.
Marvin
###########################################
You wake up in the morning, get something for the pot
Wonder why the sun makes the rocks feel hot
Draw on the walls, eat, get laid
Back in the good old days
- Roger Waters
.
|
|
|
| User: "valhalla" |
|
| Title: Re: Passion of Christ |
29 Jan 2005 06:59:46 PM |
|
|
"Marvin" <marvinadams42@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:NqCdnRR9ndlPLmbcRVnysw@pipex.net...
"valhalla" <valhalla@ev1.com> wrote in message
news:10vmc3chjqa6r90@corp.supernews.com...
"Marvin" <marvinadams42@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fKqdnZjIbeOQFmfcRVnyvw@pipex.net...
"RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> wrote in message
news:ctdvqi$s1n$1@news3.bu.edu...
"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:h1vKd.35114$8u5.19332@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
I watched the Passion of Christ movie for the first time last night.
It
was
almost pure blood and gore. It certainly was not uplifting religion.
I agree with you that it was almost pure blood and gore. However, to
see
such a visual representation of what a man would go through to save
his
friends is moving and inspiring.
I cannot understand how any sane person could believe that any real
God
would put himself through such humiliation and torture? Why live for
33
years as a poor carpenter to bring his word to only a miniscule
portion
of
the human race and then die a humiliating and painful death by being
tortured and nailed on a cross with two criminals?
In that death, his message reached billions of people.
not universal though, so much for ominipent.
His message HAS reacheed billions.
John Lennon's death reached more,
No. It hasn't.
I miss him more than your so called god.
Whatever.
After all, God created man and mans sins. If he was a real God why
didn't
he
just forgive them without all the cruelty, torture and gore? And why
didn't
he appear to the whole world and inform people directly that he was
God
and
what he expected of them?
Those who haven't the heart to believe in Him will not see Him.
During
the time of Christ, many men asked Him "Who are you?" and though he
responded. "I am the Christ" or "The Son of Man", they continued to
ask
Him who he was. God doesn't want people to believe because they see,
but
to see because they believe.
What if people live in an remote part of the work where the word of
'God'
has not reached them? Are they damned for eternity because they never
got
the message?
Let me answer, they don't give a *****, they are more interested in
local
problems, i.e. the instincts of man: eat, get laid.
What a riiculously limited view you have. Once humans have mastered
thier
most
basic problems; eat, shelter, etc.. thier first instinct is to
philosophise
about God and existance.
What the ***** are you talking about 'instinct to philosophise about God
and
existence. It's not an instinct, its curiosity derived from puzzlement.
Sorry. I was drunk. Wrong word usage.
But I stand firm.
Once man's basics are covered, they become philosophers.
God is used to explain when man cannot comprehend, it's the biggest
cop-out
of natural history.
That sounds like a cop-out.
Why did he wait 100,000 years after man was on the
earth to so indirectly and ineffectively deliver his message.
He didn't. He manifested Himself to Adam, Moses, Abraham, Isaac,
Jacob,
David, Noah, etc. etc. etc.
So why stop at Jesus? Did he just give up?! lol. 2000ish years and
counting, people are losing faith here, crack on with it, gawd..
Yes. Jesus was the prologue.
Of a super-myth.
You should read more. Many of the greatest minds in literature, as well as
many scholars,
don't think it reads like a myth at all. Hence all the fuss.
Why did he
create man with such nasty habits in the first place?
Did he? Or did he create man with free will? It seems to me that we
manifested our free will for our own selfishness, not God.
free will - another get out of jail card, classic.
Your dis is not a real reason. And, if anything, is a real reason.
Congratulations, you're an idiot.
yeah, I have no idea what I meant there. lol
Many fairy tales are more believable than this gruesome story.
--
I really believed in the tooth fairy, then I learnt the 'trick'\
God and the Tooth Fairy. Very different. One collects teeth, the other
is
the Creator.
Let me tell you, the tooth fairy doesn't collect teeth, it's all a myth.
Let me tell you something else, your God is a myth. I know you can't help
thinking like this, you were told to think like that. You may get over
it,
you may not, but in the end you'll never know, you'll be DEAD.
The tooth fairy is a myth? NOWAY.
Thanks for the heads up.
As far as God goes, I have been thinking on my own for some time now.
But, thanks again.
By the way, why all the interest if you don't believe?
I think guys like you are here because deep down, you want to be convinced.
If you believe that, so be it. I would recommend that you read
Sallustius, however. He explains quite nicely why evil is manifested
in
the world and how that evil isn't a product of the Divine.
humans would do better to get off their knee's, forget about an
afterlife
and get on with this life - humanity.
You sound like a person who can disprove the afterlife. I'd love to hear
it.
Stop being so selfish to this life and dreaming about living forever. You
never lived before you was born and you'll never live after you are dead.
Get over it.
Are you really going to waste your finite time here on Earth just on
hope...? For you, I hope not.
Marvin
###########################################
You wake up in the morning, get something for the pot
Wonder why the sun makes the rocks feel hot
Draw on the walls, eat, get laid
Back in the good old days
- Roger Waters
.
|
|
|
| User: "Marvin" |
|
| Title: Re: Passion of Christ |
30 Jan 2005 11:14:14 PM |
|
|
<snip>
As far as God goes, I have been thinking on my own for some time now.
But, thanks again.
By the way, why all the interest if you don't believe?
If a theist comes to an anti-theist group, then it's my right to tell the
theist poster how I think he/she is wrong.
I think guys like you are here because deep down, you want to be
convinced.
You like to think a lot of things, not all of them reflects reality though.
As for me being alt.atheist....I chose to be here.
Why are you here? Is it because deep down, you can't be convinced?
Marvin Adams
###########################################
You wake up in the morning, get something for the pot
Wonder why the sun makes the rocks feel hot
Draw on the walls, eat, get laid
Back in the good old days
- Roger Waters
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Al Klein" |
|
| Title: Re: Passion of Christ |
29 Jan 2005 11:15:58 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 12:59:46 -0600, "valhalla" <valhalla@ev1.com> said
in alt.atheism:
Yes. Jesus was the prologue.
Of a super-myth.
You should read more. Many of the greatest minds in literature, as well as
many scholars,
don't think it reads like a myth at all. Hence all the fuss.
Since there's NO objective evidence of the biblical Jesus, and plenty
of objective evidence that claims about him in the bible are wrong or
impossible, the burden of proof is still on Christianity.
As far as God goes, I have been thinking on my own for some time now.
So you're now an atheist?
I think guys like you are here because deep down, you want to be convinced.
"Here", for me, happens to be alt.atheism. (You're posting to
alt.atheism, alt.religion, alt.religion.christian and
alt.religion.christianity.) Why do you think that an atheist, reading
in alt.atheism, would want to be convinced that your god, for which
there's not the slightest shred of objective evidence, exists -
without your posting some objective evidence?
--
If you are open to the point of gullibility and have not an
ounce of skeptical sense in you, then you cannot distinguish
the useful ideas from the worthless ones
- Carl Sagan, 1987.
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
.
|
|
|
| User: "RS" |
|
| Title: Re: Passion of Christ |
30 Jan 2005 04:25:10 AM |
|
|
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:o16ov056n2jk6gpr1044e310e1ncclbt6v@4ax.com...
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 12:59:46 -0600, "valhalla" <valhalla@ev1.com> said
in alt.atheism:
Yes. Jesus was the prologue.
Of a super-myth.
You should read more. Many of the greatest minds in literature, as well as
many scholars,
don't think it reads like a myth at all. Hence all the fuss.
Since there's NO objective evidence of the biblical Jesus, and plenty
of objective evidence that claims about him in the bible are wrong or
impossible, the burden of proof is still on Christianity.
As far as God goes, I have been thinking on my own for some time now.
So you're now an atheist?
I think guys like you are here because deep down, you want to be
convinced.
"Here", for me, happens to be alt.atheism. (You're posting to
alt.atheism, alt.religion, alt.religion.christian and
alt.religion.christianity.) Why do you think that an atheist, reading
in alt.atheism, would want to be convinced that your god, for which
there's not the slightest shred of objective evidence, exists -
without your posting some objective evidence?
--
You, Al, are shifting the burden. It is equally your fault for
cross-posting in alt.religion or alt.religion.christianity. In fact,
looking at the records it was Bill who first posted here, causing me to
respond to him, then Marvin, then Vahalla, then Marvin, then valhalla, then
you. It mostly originates in cross posts from whereever to all the groups
at once resulting in an equally fueled cross-post conversation between
everyone.
He was observing that there is a chance that there are atheists who truly
want to be convinced of the existence of God. Who are you to claim there
are none? I am sure there are plenty out there.
-RS
.
|
|
|
| User: "Al Klein" |
|
| Title: Re: Passion of Christ |
31 Jan 2005 12:12:25 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:25:10 -0500, "RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> said in
alt.atheism:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:o16ov056n2jk6gpr1044e310e1ncclbt6v@4ax.com...
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 12:59:46 -0600, "valhalla" <valhalla@ev1.com> said
in alt.atheism:
"Here", for me, happens to be alt.atheism. (You're posting to
alt.atheism, alt.religion, alt.religion.christian and
alt.religion.christianity.) Why do you think that an atheist, reading
in alt.atheism, would want to be convinced that your god, for which
there's not the slightest shred of objective evidence, exists -
without your posting some objective evidence?
You, Al, are shifting the burden. It is equally your fault for
cross-posting in alt.religion or alt.religion.christianity.
I didn't say it was his fault for posting to alt.atheism. I asked why
atheists would be interested in his evidenceless assertions.
He was observing that there is a chance that there are atheists who truly
want to be convinced of the existence of God. Who are you to claim there
are none? I am sure there are plenty out there.
I'm sure you're probably totally incorrect. Since you're not an
atheist, you have no basis for your opinion that there are.
--
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your
Christ."
- Mohandas Gandhi
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
|
| Title: Re: Passion of Christ |
28 Jan 2005 06:36:29 PM |
|
|
on 28 Jan 2005 in alt.atheism, RS dropped trou, farted, whirled, then
shouted:
I watched the Passion of Christ movie for the first time last night.
It was
almost pure blood and gore. It certainly was not uplifting religion.
I agree with you that it was almost pure blood and gore. However, to
see such a visual representation of what a man would go through to
save his friends is moving and inspiring.
Yup, sort of like what Steve McQueen went through in The Towering Inferno.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
Why is it that most of the people who are against abortion are the kind of
people you wouldn't want to ***** in the first place?
--George Carlin
.
|
|
|
| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
|
| Title: Re: Passion of Christ |
28 Jan 2005 08:14:22 PM |
|
|
"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95EC6C2165317vicman@127.0.0.1...
on 28 Jan 2005 in alt.atheism, RS dropped trou, farted, whirled, then
shouted:
I watched the Passion of Christ movie for the first time last night.
It was
almost pure blood and gore. It certainly was not uplifting religion.
I agree with you that it was almost pure blood and gore. However, to
see such a visual representation of what a man would go through to
save his friends is moving and inspiring.
Yup, sort of like what Steve McQueen went through in The Towering Inferno.
Did you ever see The Poiseidon Adventure? Came out about the same time as
The Towering Inferno. Gene Hackman is a priest leading a group of sinners
out of a sinking ocean liner, and only the holy survive. Shelley Winters
also gives an alarming performance. This is one of the most unintentionally
funny movies of all time. I almost suffocated from laughing so hard...if
there ever was an atheist film fest, this should be on the list.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
|
| Title: Re: Passion of Christ |
29 Jan 2005 04:17:32 AM |
|
|
On 28 Jan 2005, Neil Kelsey dropped trou, farted, whirled, then shouted:
"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95EC6C2165317vicman@127.0.0.1...
on 28 Jan 2005 in alt.atheism, RS dropped trou, farted, whirled, then
shouted:
I watched the Passion of Christ movie for the first time last night.
It was
almost pure blood and gore. It certainly was not uplifting
religion.
I agree with you that it was almost pure blood and gore. However,
to see such a visual representation of what a man would go through
to save his friends is moving and inspiring.
Yup, sort of like what Steve McQueen went through in The Towering
Inferno.
Did you ever see The Poiseidon Adventure? Came out about the same time
as The Towering Inferno. Gene Hackman is a priest leading a group of
sinners out of a sinking ocean liner, and only the holy survive.
Shelley Winters also gives an alarming performance. This is one of the
most unintentionally funny movies of all time. I almost suffocated
from laughing so hard...if there ever was an atheist film fest, this
should be on the list.
I found a copy at the local Blockhead Buster, but it was an empty box. I
guess to them that means it's out. It wasn't as obvious to me. So I'll
keep looking...
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
--------
Why is it that most of the people who are against abortion are people you
wouldn't want to ***** in the first place?
--George Carlin
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
|
| Title: Re: Passion of Christ |
28 Jan 2005 08:53:10 PM |
|
|
on 28 Jan 2005 in alt.atheism, Neil Kelsey dropped trou, farted,
whirled, then shouted:
"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95EC6C2165317vicman@127.0.0.1...
on 28 Jan 2005 in alt.atheism, RS dropped trou, farted, whirled, then
shouted:
I watched the Passion of Christ movie for the first time last night.
It was
almost pure blood and gore. It certainly was not uplifting
religion.
I agree with you that it was almost pure blood and gore. However,
to see such a visual representation of what a man would go through
to save his friends is moving and inspiring.
Yup, sort of like what Steve McQueen went through in The Towering
Inferno.
Did you ever see The Poiseidon Adventure? Came out about the same time
as The Towering Inferno. Gene Hackman is a priest leading a group of
sinners out of a sinking ocean liner, and only the holy survive.
Shelley Winters also gives an alarming performance. This is one of the
most unintentionally funny movies of all time. I almost suffocated
from laughing so hard...if there ever was an atheist film fest, this
should be on the list.
Actually, I never saw the entire movie, just a scene here and one there,
while my wife was flipping channels. It didn't look like something I would
want to watch, but now you've sparked my interest.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
Why is it that most of the people who are against abortion are the kind of
people you wouldn't want to ***** in the first place?
--George Carlin
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "shannon" |
|
| Title: Re: Passion of Christ |
29 Jan 2005 02:58:16 AM |
|
|
Most people focus on the blood and gore, but what about in the begining
of the movie, where Jesus is praying, HE KNOWS WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN
TO HIM, YET HE DOESN't STOP IT. HE SWEATS BLOOD because He is so afraid
( that's an understatement)
He went through torture, just as our own history shows what others have
had to go through, for thier faith, or to stand for what they believe in.
Let's mention recent events, such as the Holocaust, these people went
through horrors of thier own, Not as torturous as what Christ went
through, but we can see in our own lifetimes the mental state of such
people who take pleasure in torturing others.
Watching that magnatude as "the Passion of The Christ" brings out in us,
disgust and shame in ourselves as a nation, as a human race. It makes us
think and hope that we are not capable of such atrosities, in fact we
are...
Sadam Hussien and his sons were capable, they laughed, and took pleasure
in beating a pregnant woman to death, or feeding people to thier "pet"
lions.
Hitler starved many and insinerated them alive...
Romans actually fed Christians to thier lions by placing dead carcases
on the people in order to create a blood bath. ( The emporers and non
Christians watched!)
Anyone heard of Caligula? He was a horrific man, who had head issues to
say the least, his methods of torture would leave anyone wanting death
in an instant.
The bible doesn't go into GREAT discriptive detail of How Christ was
tortured, the detail that is given " His skin looked like raw hamburger"
we don't really imagine it. It is too horrible to even concieve, but
when we sit and watch another man's torture, we can't help but feel a
little less human. And that is embarassing, and humiliating to concieve,
that we do this to others on a daily basis. If not physically,
emotionally, and mentally.
Christ layed down his life, so we might live. That is the reason for the
torture. God cried, he didn't want his son to die like that, but he
didn't want us to die either.
Can we ask ourselves, would we die like that for our friends? Just as
Jesus said he did? We cannot concieve the amount of LOVE he has for all
of us. His love for all.
Can we honestly say we love eachother enough to die like that?
that is why it is hard for us to believe that a man could be tortured
like He was. And His father let him.
GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, THAT
WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHOULD NOT DIE ( PERISH) BUT HAVE EVERLASTING
LIFE.
AMEN!
.
|
|
|
| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Passion of Christ |
29 Jan 2005 03:09:19 AM |
|
|
"shannon" <srnityblu@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cZCKd.198367$8l.67147@pd7tw1no...
Most people focus on the blood and gore, but what about in the begining of
the movie, where Jesus is praying, HE KNOWS WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO
HIM, YET HE DOESN't STOP IT. HE SWEATS BLOOD because He is so afraid (
that's an understatement)
He went through torture, just as our own history shows what others have
had to go through, for thier faith, or to stand for what they believe in.
Let's mention recent events, such as the Holocaust, these people went
through horrors of thier own, Not as torturous as what Christ went
through, but we can see in our own lifetimes the mental state of such
people who take pleasure in torturing others.
Watching that magnatude as "the Passion of The Christ" brings out in us,
disgust and shame in ourselves as a nation, as a human race. It makes us
think and hope that we are not capable of such atrosities, in fact we
are...
Sadam Hussien and his sons were capable, they laughed, and took pleasure
in beating a pregnant woman to death, or feeding people to thier "pet"
lions.
Hitler starved many and insinerated them alive...
Romans actually fed Christians to thier lions by placing dead carcases on
the people in order to create a blood bath. ( The emporers and non
Christians watched!)
Anyone heard of Caligula? He was a horrific man, who had head issues to
say the least, his methods of torture would leave anyone wanting death in
an instant.
The bible doesn't go into GREAT discriptive detail of How Christ was
tortured, the detail that is given " His skin looked like raw hamburger"
we don't really imagine it. It is too horrible to even concieve, but when
we sit and watch another man's torture, we can't help but feel a little
less human. And that is embarassing, and humiliating to concieve, that we
do this to others on a daily basis. If not physically, emotionally, and
mentally.
Christ layed down his life, so we might live. That is the reason for the
torture. God cried, he didn't want his son to die like that, but he didn't
want us to die either.
Can we ask ourselves, would we die like that for our friends? Just as
Jesus said he did? We cannot concieve the amount of LOVE he has for all of
us. His love for all.
Can we honestly say we love eachother enough to die like that?
that is why it is hard for us to believe that a man could be tortured like
He was. And His father let him.
GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, THAT WHOSOEVER
BELIEVETH IN HIM SHOULD NOT DIE ( PERISH) BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.
AMEN!
Time to take your prosac, sweetie.
--
---------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "pensul" |
|
| Title: Re: Passion of Christ |
31 Jan 2005 10:54:31 PM |
|
|
Can we honestly say we love eachother enough to die like that?
We need to do more than just say it, Shannon. Theists do not have the burden
of proving that they are theists, neither do they cease being theists if their
statements are not understood. They do have the burden, like everyone else, of
backing up their statements with evidence, and if the evidence is lacking, it
means that the theist lacks the evidence, not that those he is addressing lack
evidence of or belief in theism. Thus atheism is really only applicable to a
theist, because only one who knows and believes the claims of theism can tell
what a-theism or non-theism is. The same could be said of agnostics in relation
to gnosis. Atheists are really disaffected gnostics, but because they can't
come up with a catchy phrase like agnosis, ( which is ridiculous ), they've
thought up atheism, which sounds like a belief but really isn't; this
describes accurately what they resent about gnosis. Briefly, they wish to be
organized like a religion in order to fight religion, but lack the vocabulary
to do so. Therefore, the word "atheist" really only describes a particular
point of view of theists which indicates their ignorance of the evidence of
theism, not theists themselves.
--
"The world of existence is an emanation of the merciful attribute of God."
Abdul-Baha
http://www.costarricense.cr/pagina/ernobe
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Al Klein" |
|
| Title: Re: Passion of Christ |
29 Jan 2005 08:06:01 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 02:58:16 GMT, shannon <srnityblu@yahoo.com> said
in alt.atheism:
Let's mention recent events, such as the Holocaust, these people went
through horrors of thier own, Not as torturous as what Christ went
through
Months of starvation and disease is less torturous than a few hours of
crucifixion?
Hitler starved many and insinerated them alive...
The ovens were for disposing of corpses, not for killing.
The bible doesn't go into GREAT discriptive detail of How Christ was
tortured, the detail that is given " His skin looked like raw hamburger"
Chapter and verse? I can't find the word "raw" in the NT. And the
only place I find "skin" is Mark 1:6.
Christ layed down his life, so we might live. That is the reason for the
torture. God cried, he didn't want his son to die like that, but he
didn't want us to die either.
Since he's ALL-powerful, he could just have not had us die. Having
his son die was his choice.
Can we ask ourselves, would we die like that for our friends? Just as
Jesus said he did?
If we knew we were going to come back to life 36 hours later? Sure,
why not?
Can we honestly say we love eachother enough to die like that?
People die REAL deaths for others. Jesus died a fake death.
According to the novel you call a bible.
--
"...I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do.
When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand
why I dismiss yours."
- Stephen F. Roberts
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
.
|
|
|
| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
|
| Title: Re: Passion of Christ |
29 Jan 2005 05:19:04 PM |
|
|
on 29 Jan 2005 in alt.atheism, Al Klein dropped trou, farted, whirled, then
shouted:
The bible doesn't go into GREAT discriptive detail of How Christ was
tortured, the detail that is given " His skin looked like raw hamburger"
Chapter and verse? I can't find the word "raw" in the NT. And the
only place I find "skin" is Mark 1:6.
"Hamburger" would be an interesting find too. Maybe at Judas-in-the-box?
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
Why is it that most of the people who are against abortion are the kind of
people you wouldn't want to ***** in the first place?
--George Carlin
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
