| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Fredric L. Rice" |
| Date: |
08 Feb 2006 10:18:03 PM |
| Object: |
Pat Robertson's latest insane Christian lunacy |
Robertson: Europe committing "racial suicide"
Summary: Pat Robertson said, "Europe is right now in the midst of
racial suicide because of the declining birth rate."
During the February 6 edition of Christian Broadcasting Network's (CBN)
The 700 Club, host Pat Robertson said that "Europe is right now in the
midst of racial suicide because of the declining birth rate." Robertson
blamed the declining birth rate on the existential philosophy of
Jean-Paul Sartre, which, according to Robertson, "has permeated the
intellectual thinking of Europe" and has left Europeans without "a
faith in the future."
From the February 6 edition of CBN's The 700 Club:
ROBERTSON: Studies that I have read indicate that having babies is a
sign of a faith in the future. You know, unless you believe in the
future, you're not going to take the trouble of raising a child,
educating a child, doing something. If there is no future, why do it?
Well, unless you believe in God, there's really no future. And when you
go back to the existentialism of Jean-Paul Sartre, the whole idea of
this desperate nightmare we are in -- you know, that we are in this
prison, and it has no hope, no exit. That kind of philosophy has
permeated the intellectual thinking of Europe, and hopefully it doesn't
come here. But nevertheless, ladies and gentlemen, Europe is right now
in the midst of racial suicide because of the declining birth rate. And
they just can't get it together. Why? There's no hope.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200602070002
---
"President Washington, President Lincoln, President Wilson, President
Roosevelt have all authorized electronic surveillance on a far broader
scale." - AG Christoterrorist Alberto Gonzales, Senate testimony
"Make no mistake about it, this is an attempt to overthrow the
government, not by force of arms, but by seductive arguments
preying on the public's fear of terrorism." -- Filius Nullius
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| User: "David Rice, Esq. desertphile@ hot mail.com" |
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| Title: Re: Pat Robertson's latest insane Christian lunacy |
09 Feb 2006 07:01:31 PM |
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On Thu, 9 Feb 2006 13:20:29 -0600, "Rick"
<pl1_alpha_geek@juNOSPAM.com> wrote:
David Rice, Esq. > wrote in message ...
On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 04:18:03 GMT, (Fredric
L. Rice) wrote:
[snip]
This theofascist tyrant ought to also examine why abortions
increase in the USA when The Party runs the country, and decrease
when a Democrat is in the Oval Office.
Are you basing this on the disproven *and* recanted claim that abortion
increased while Bush was in office?
No. I am basing the observation based upon the demonstrated and
conclisive evidence that abortion increased as Bush2 stole the
presidency; also, I base the observation of the fact that when
Bush1 was in the Oval Office abortions increased and while Clinton
was in the Oval Office abortions decreased (quite sharply, by the
way).
You're welcome.
- Rick
---
I am L. Ron Hubbard and I approve of this message.
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| User: "Rick" |
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| Title: Re: Pat Robertson's latest insane Christian lunacy |
09 Feb 2006 07:58:22 PM |
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David Rice, Esq. > wrote in message
<9fpnu119hp5unp0srgjuvshq278vordrav@4ax.com>...
On Thu, 9 Feb 2006 13:20:29 -0600, "Rick"
<pl1_alpha_geek@juNOSPAM.com> wrote:
David Rice, Esq. > wrote in message ...
On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 04:18:03 GMT, (Fredric
L. Rice) wrote:
[snip]
This theofascist tyrant ought to also examine why abortions
increase in the USA when The Party runs the country, and decrease
when a Democrat is in the Oval Office.
Are you basing this on the disproven *and* recanted claim that abortion
increased while Bush was in office?
No. I am basing the observation based upon the demonstrated and
conclisive evidence that abortion increased as Bush2 stole the
presidency; also, I base the observation of the fact that when
Bush1 was in the Oval Office abortions increased and while Clinton
was in the Oval Office abortions decreased (quite sharply, by the
way).
You're welcome.
If you have information which corrects what I understand to be the actual
facts, please let me know. I want actual citations, not just reflexively
repeated lefty dittohead canards.
http://www.factcheck.org/article330m.html
The Biography of a Bad Statistic
Abortions rising under Bush? Not true. How that false claim came to be -and
lives on.
May 25, 2005 Modified: May 26, 2005
Summary
Politicians from Hillary Clinton and John Kerry to Howard Dean have recently
contended that abortions have increased since George W. Bush took office in
2001.
This claim is false. It's based on an an opinion piece that used data from
only 16 states. A study by the Alan Guttmacher Institute of 43 states found
that abortions have actually decreased. Update, May 26: The author of the
original claim now concedes that the Guttmacher study is "significantly
better" than his own.
Analysis
A number of politicians and organizations have been circulating an
interesting and surprising idea: that abortions have gone up under George W.
Bush’s watch. The claim is repeated by supporters of abortion rights as
evidence that Bush's anti-abortion policies have backfired, or at least been
ineffective.
But the claim is untrue. In fact, according to the respected Alan Guttmacher
Institute, a 20-year decline in abortion rates continued after Bush took
office, as shown in this graph
[graph source: http://www.agi-usa.org/presentations/trends.pdf ]
Here's the story of how a false idea took hold.
The Birth of a Bad Statistic
The claim that abortions are rising again can be traced back to an opinion
piece by Glen Harold Stassen, an ethics professor at Fuller Theological
Seminary. His article originally appeared in a web and e-mail publication of
Sojourners, a Christian magazine, in October 2004. Several other outlets,
including the Houston Chronicle, also ran a similar piece co-authored by
Stassen and journalist Gary Krane. The articles generated a good deal of
discussion on a number of both liberal and conservative blogs.
Describing himself as “consistently pro-life,” Stassen reported that he
“analyzed the data on abortion during the Bush presidency” and reached some
“disturbing” conclusions. "Under President Bush, the decade-long trend of
declining abortion rates appears to have reversed," he said. "Given the
trends of the 1990s, 52,000 more abortions occurred in the United States in
2002 than would have been expected before this change of direction."
Stassen's broad conclusion wasn't justified by the sketchy information he
cited, however. Furthermore, a primary organization he cited specifically as
a source for historical data now contradicts him, saying abortions have
continued to decline since Bush took office. More about that later.
Hillary Clinton Uses It
Stassen offered his article as evidence that Bush's economic policies were
driving pregnant women to abortion. And although he opposes abortion, his
claim was soon picked up and repeated uncritically by the other side –
supporters of abortion rights. In a speech to family-planning providers in
New York on January 24, 2005 , Sen. Hillary Clinton recounted decreases in
the abortion rate that occurred in her husband's administration, then
lamented that the situation had changed. She repeated exactly some of the
figures that Stassen had given in his Houston Chronicle article.
Clinton : But unfortunately, in the last few years, while we are engaged in
an ideological debate instead of one that uses facts and evidence and common
sense, the rate of abortion is on the rise in some states . In the three
years since President Bush took office, 8 states saw an increase in abortion
rates (14.6% average increase), and four saw a decrease (4.3% average), so
we have a lot of work still ahead of us.
Clinton was careful not to state flatly that abortions were increasing
nationally . She spoke only of "some states" in which the rate had
increased. But she invited her listeners to conclude that the national trend
to fewer abortions had reversed itself since Bush took office.
And in fact a few days later, in an interview on NBC’s Meet the Press on
January 30, 2005 , Sen. John Kerry claimed that abortions were up, period:
Kerry: And do you know that in fact abortion has gone up in these last few
years with the draconian policies that Republicans have….
A Kerry spokesman confirmed at the time to FactCheck.org that Kerry was
relying on the Stassen article for his information.
Finally, as recently as May 22, 2005 , Democratic National Committee
chairman Howard Dean also asserted on NBC News' Meet the Press:
Dean:You know that abortions have gone up 25 percent since George Bush was
President ?
Dean's "statistic" went unchallenged by moderator Tim Russert, so millions
of viewers probably got the impression that Dean's very specific 25 percent
figure was correct. But Dean was wrong -- and by a wide margin.
We asked the Democratic National Committee repeatedly where Dean got his 25
percent figure, but we got no response. Even if Stassen's estimate of 52,000
additional abortions were correct, that would figure to an increase of less
than 4 percent. And in any case the rate is going down, not up, according to
the most authoritative figures available.
Cherrypicking Data
A close reading of Stassen's article makes clear that he didn't even pretend
to have comprehensive national data on abortion rates. He said he looked at
data from 16 states only -- and didn't even name most of them.
Stassen said that in the four states that had already posted statistics for
three full years of Bush’s first term, he found that abortion was up. Twelve
more states had posted statistics for two years of Bush's term – 2001 and
2002 – and here the picture was mixed. According to Stassen, "Eight states
saw an increase in abortion rates (14.6 percent average increase), and five
saw a decrease (4.3 percent average)." A version of the piece in the Houston
Chronicle reported instead that four saw a decrease with a 4.3 percent
average.
So Stassen was projecting findings onto the entire country from 12 states
that he said had showed an increase and 5 (or maybe 4) that he said had
shown a decrease. That leaves a total of 34 other states for which Stassen
had no data whatsoever.
Furthermore, Stassen is contradicted by one of the very organizations whose
data he cites. The only primary source of data that Stassen cites
specifically in the article is the Alan Guttmacher Institute, a nonprofit
organization that conducts a periodic survey of all known abortion
providers, which numbered nearly 2,000 at last count. Guttmacher's
statistics are widely used and respected by all sides in the abortion
debate. It is the only organization to compile and publish national
abortion-rate data other than the federal Center for Disease Control. CDC's
official statistics, however, run only through 2001, so they shed no light
on what has happened since Bush took office.
And Guttmacher – as we shall see – now says abortion rates have decreased
since Bush took office. And that's based on data from 43 states, not just
16.
De-bunking the statistic
Stassen’s numbers, and the widespread acceptance they seemed to be getting,
prompted the Guttmacher Institute to conduct a special analysis to update
its comprehensive census of abortion providers for the year 2000. The
increases that Stassen reported “would be a significant change in a
long-standing trend in the US ,” Leila Darabi of the institute explained to
Factcheck.
Besides the fact that Stassen claimed to have data only from 16 states, the
Guttmacher Institute said it is likely that many of the states Stassen
picked have higher abortion rates historically, have a higher concentration
of population subgroups that tend to have more abortions, and see abortion
rates rise more quickly when they do go up. Stassen himself named only
Kentucky, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Colorado among the 16 states he says he
studied, but his co-author on the Houston Chronicle article listed each
state in a separate article posted on the Internet.
The Guttmacher Institute found that two of the states Stassen used had
unreliable reporting systems. In Colorado , for instance, where Stassen
claimed that rates “skyrocketed 111 percent,” the reporting procedure had
been recently changed in order to compensate for historic underreporting.
Guttmacher also found Arizona had an inconsistent reporting system.
The Facts
The Guttmacher Institute announced its findings May 19. Guttmacher analyzed
available government data "as an interim measure until another provider
census can be conducted” according to a news release. The interim study
analyzed data from 43 states determined to have reliable state reporting
systems.
What it found was that the number of abortions decreased nationwide – by
0.8% in 2001 and by another 0.8% in 2002. The abortion rate , which is the
number of women having abortions relative to the total population, also
decreased 1% in 2001 and 0.9% in 2002. That's not as rapid a decrease as had
been seen in earlier years, but it is a decrease nonetheless.
We give much weight to Guttmacher's analysis. Their figures are widely used
and accepted by both anti-abortion groups and abortion-rights advocates.
Their surveys of abortion providers go back to 1973, and Stassen cites them
himself as the source for the number of abortions in 2000.
Guttmacher has little motive to make Bush and his anti-abortion policies
look good. The institute was founded in 1968 in honor of a former president
of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America, and describes its mission
as being" to protect the reproductive choice of all women and men in the
United States and throughout the world.” Had Stassen’s numbers proven
accurate, the Institute “would have reported and widely publicized a rise in
abortion rates,” said Darabi. But facts are facts.
Update, May 26: Even Stassen now concedes that he can't substantiate his
original claim. In a memo dated May 25, which he sent to FactCheck.org just
as we were posting our article, he praises the Guttmacher study and says it
is "significantly better" than his own earlier effort:
Stassen, May 25: I based my estimates in October on the sixteen states whose
data I could find then. Now, seven months later, and with their extensive
data-gathering ability, AGI (Alan Guttmacher Institute) bases their results
on 44 states. They say their results are only estimates, projections, but I
believe their results are significantly better than what I could have
obtained seven months ago. I affirm their methods and their study, and am
grateful for their effort.
Nevertheless, Stassen still argues that the small rate of decline that
Guttmacher reports still constitutes a "stall" in what had earlier been a
more rapid decline. He also continues to criticize the Bush administration
for economic policies that he says bring hardship on low-income women. "It
is clear to me that undermining the financial support for mothers,
undermining the availability of medical insurance, and increasing the
jobless rate for prospective mates so that they are less likely to marry,
has a bad influence on abortion rates and infant mortality rates."
For the full text of Stassen's response see "supporting documents" at right.
Correction: Our original article stated that Sen. Clinton had omitted to
mention states in which abortions had decreased. In fact, as was obvious
from the full quote we gave, she did state that abortions had decreased in
four states. This updated article corrects our error.
Sources
Glen Harold Stassen, "Pro-Life? Look at the fruits," Sojomail, 13 October
2004.
Glen Harold Stassen and Gary Krane, "Why Abortion Rate Is Up In Bush Years,"
Houston Chronicle, 17 October 2004
Sen. Hillary Clinton, "Remarks by Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton to the NYS
Family Planning Providers," 24 January 2005, website.
"Meet the Press," Transcript, National Broadcasting Company, 30 January
2005.
"Meet the Press," Transcript, National Broadcasting Company, 22 May 2005.
"Decades-Long Decline in Number and Rate of U.S. Abortions Continues, New
Analysis Shows," Press Release, The Alan Guttmacher Institute, 19 May 2005.
******************************************************************
http://www.abpnews.com/370.article.print
Author of Bush abortion-rate study admits flaws, but challenges critics
By Analiz Gonzalez
Published: June 8, 2005
WASHINGTON (ABP) -- A controversial study suggesting the abortion rate has
increased since President Bush took office was off the mark, its author now
admits. But he also says new figures vindicate some of his contentions.
A recent study of the abortion rates in several states since President Bush
took office revealed figures slightly different from those seminary
professor Glen Stassen found in a study of a smaller number of states last
fall.
Stassen, a Christian-ethics professor at Fuller Theological Seminary near
Los Angeles, originally extrapolated data from 16 states to suggest the
national abortion rate has risen slightly since Bush took office in 2001
after falling for several years under his predecessors.
Prominent Democrats have cited Stassen's figures as recently as mid-May in
criticizing Bush. Partially in response, the Alan Guttmacher Institute
released its own study of abortion rates May 18. The group, affiliated with
Planned Parenthood, tracks abortion statistics, which are only released
every 10 years on the national level.
The Guttmacher study found that, while the abortion rate hasn't increased
under Bush, it also has declined more slowly under his presidency than under
predecessor Bill Clinton, who unlike Bush favors abortion rights.
"Between 1992 and 1996, the annualized decline was 3.4 percent per year,
while between 1996 and 2000, it was 1.2 percent per year," the Guttmacher
study read. "The annualized decline between 2000 and 2002 was 0.9 percent."
The authors of the Guttmacher study noted it is "subject to some limitations
and should be considered provisional."
Stassen, who published his original findings in an opinion piece that
appeared in Sojourners magazine as well as several other news outlets,
defended his work by saying his resources were limited when he did the
study. He noted some states had not made their most recent abortion
statistics available at the time he conducted the study. The Guttmacher
study, however, extrapolated a national abortion rate from figures in 44 of
the 50 states.
Groups that oppose abortion rights have long accused Stassen's study of
being flawed. Family Research Council President Tony Perkins criticized
Democrats, such as New York Sen. Hillary Clinton and former presidential
candidate John Kerry, for using the figures "to attack President Bush and to
promote condom use."
"Professor Stassen also used wrong figures in several states -- old, dated
statistics," Perkins said in the May 27 edition of his daily e-mail
newsletter to supporters. "In some cases the absent-minded professor used
birth rates when he meant to cite abortion rates."
Stassen disputed Perkins' claim, telling an Associated Baptist Press
reporter that it was "simply untrue." Stassen, however, has previously
admitted mistakenly reporting increases in the 2002 abortion rates in two
states that actually showed decreases.
He said the public's response to the findings about abortion rates "separate
those who want to reduce abortions from people who want to defend this
Republican administration."
"If I am right that the rate of reduction has stalled, that puts pressure on
the administration to do more to support mothers and babies and reduce
abortions," he continued. "Pro-life people like me should cheer on the
pressure this generates."
Sharon Camp, the Guttmacher Institute's president, had a different
perspective. "It takes time for political decisions to be reflected in
statistical data, so it is too soon to tell what the impact of Bush
administration policies will be on U.S. abortion rates," she said in a
statement.
Stassen said June 7 that Bush's presidency may not have reversed the
historic decline in abortion rates, but the apparent near-stall in their
decline may reflect economic factors that are connected to the president's
policy decisions.
He pointed to studies suggesting the abortion rate has paralleled the
unemployment rate since the Supreme Court legalized abortion nationwide more
than 30 years ago. He said 21 percent of women who had abortions in the
United States cited financial problems as the top reason for their choice.
He also said his wife endured a difficult pregnancy, and their ability to
provide financial support for their disabled son had an impact on their
decision not to abort.
Calls to White House and the Family Research Council requesting comment for
this story were not immediately returned.
-- With additional reporting by Robert Marus
******************************************************************
- Rick
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| User: "Cardinal Purplebeard of Leeds II" |
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| Title: Re: Pat Robertson's latest insane Christian lunacy |
08 Feb 2006 11:52:52 PM |
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Pat Robertson is going senile for our enjoyment on the HDTV screen and
sounding more and more like Hal Turner. Amazing!
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| User: "Rev. 11D Meow!" |
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| Title: Re: Pat Robertson's latest insane Christian lunacy |
09 Feb 2006 12:01:37 AM |
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Why stare into the toilet when your poo flushes down, eh?
"Cardinal Purplebeard of Leeds II" <kcarter433@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1139464372.734447.121060@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Pat Robertson is going senile for our enjoyment on the HDTV screen and
sounding more and more like Hal Turner. Amazing!
.
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Pat Robertson's latest insane Christian lunacy |
10 Feb 2006 09:07:27 PM |
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"Rev. 11D Meow!" <Jimmy@Crack.Corn> wrote:
Why stare into the toilet when your poo flushes down, eh?
This is DISGUSTING!
"Cardinal Purplebeard of Leeds II" <kcarter433@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1139464372.734447.121060@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Pat Robertson is going senile for our enjoyment on the HDTV screen and
sounding more and more like Hal Turner. Amazing!
---
"President Washington, President Lincoln, President Wilson, President
Roosevelt have all authorized electronic surveillance on a far broader
scale." - AG Christoterrorist Alberto Gonzales, Senate testimony
"Make no mistake about it, this is an attempt to overthrow the
government, not by force of arms, but by seductive arguments
preying on the public's fear of terrorism." -- Filius Nullius
.
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| User: "sunny" |
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| Title: Re: Pat Robertson's latest insane Christian lunacy |
08 Feb 2006 10:48:55 PM |
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wow!!!! I'm speechless.
Oh....it's pat robertson saying this stuff. Ok. He has more than a
few mental disorders. Don't even listen to him.
(but people do you say?...they must be americans)
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| User: "Zapanaz http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl" |
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| Title: Re: Pat Robertson's latest insane Christian lunacy |
08 Feb 2006 11:26:24 PM |
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On 8 Feb 2006 20:48:55 -0800, "sunny" <sunnydays107_ca@yahoo.ca>
wrote:
Oh....it's pat robertson saying this stuff. Ok. He has more than a
few mental disorders. Don't even listen to him.
WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO, KILL FRED?
--
Zapanaz
International Satanic Conspiracy
Customer Support Specialist
http://joecosby.com/
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute talk with the
average voter."
- Winston Churchill
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| User: "Rev. 11D Meow!" |
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| Title: Re: Pat Robertson's latest insane Christian lunacy |
08 Feb 2006 11:54:02 PM |
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"Zapanaz" <http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote in message
news:ejklu1948onh7kqfqia6mg0lp7mrs7u68a@4ax.com...
On 8 Feb 2006 20:48:55 -0800, "sunny" <sunnydays107_ca@yahoo.ca>
wrote:
Oh....it's pat robertson saying this stuff. Ok. He has more than a
few mental disorders. Don't even listen to him.
WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO, KILL FRED?
And the gap left rented in the Life Stream would never come undone???
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Pat Robertson's latest insane Christian lunacy |
10 Feb 2006 09:06:31 PM |
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Zapanaz <http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:
On 8 Feb 2006 20:48:55 -0800, "sunny" <sunnydays107_ca@yahoo.ca> wrote:
Oh....it's pat robertson saying this stuff. Ok.
He has more than a few mental disorders. Don't even listen to him.
WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO, KILL FRED?
LOL! There's a waiting list.
---
"President Washington, President Lincoln, President Wilson, President
Roosevelt have all authorized electronic surveillance on a far broader
scale." - AG Christoterrorist Alberto Gonzales, Senate testimony
"Make no mistake about it, this is an attempt to overthrow the
government, not by force of arms, but by seductive arguments
preying on the public's fear of terrorism." -- Filius Nullius
.
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| User: "sunny" |
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| Title: Re: Pat Robertson's latest insane Christian lunacy |
08 Feb 2006 10:48:58 PM |
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wow!!!! I'm speechless.
Oh....it's pat robertson saying this stuff. Ok. He has more than a
few mental disorders. Don't even listen to him.
(but people do you say?...they must be americans)
.
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| User: "Kate " |
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| Title: Re: Pat Robertson's latest insane Christian lunacy |
09 Feb 2006 12:07:02 AM |
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On 8 Feb 2006 20:48:58 -0800, "sunny" <sunnydays107_ca@yahoo.ca>
wrote:
wow!!!! I'm speechless.
Oh....it's pat robertson saying this stuff. Ok. He has more than a
few mental disorders. Don't even listen to him.
(but people do you say?...they must be americans)
The man has his own television show and a huge following.
.
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| User: "Rev. 11D Meow!" |
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| Title: Re: Pat Robertson's latest insane Christian lunacy |
09 Feb 2006 12:23:02 AM |
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Ewe, Sheep Fuckee, Call Pat Robertson A Man?
Looks more like steamed spinach to me...
"Kate " <cobalt@newscene.com> wrote in message
news:43f4db88.515245281@news-west.newscene.com...
On 8 Feb 2006 20:48:58 -0800, "sunny" <sunnydays107_ca@yahoo.ca>
wrote:
wow!!!! I'm speechless.
Oh....it's pat robertson saying this stuff. Ok. He has more than a
few mental disorders. Don't even listen to him.
(but people do you say?...they must be americans)
The man has his own television show and a huge following.
.
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| User: "nenslo" |
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| Title: Re: Pat Robertson's latest insane Christian lunacy |
08 Feb 2006 09:37:26 PM |
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In article <43f4db88.515245281@news-west.newscene.com>,
(Kate ) wrote:
On 8 Feb 2006 20:48:58 -0800, "sunny" <sunnydays107_ca@yahoo.ca>
wrote:
wow!!!! I'm speechless.
Oh....it's pat robertson saying this stuff. Ok. He has more than a
few mental disorders. Don't even listen to him.
(but people do you say?...they must be americans)
The man has his own television show and a huge following.
I could name a guy who had a HUGE following and had the first TV show
EVER. And I don't mean Felix the Cat.
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