| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Fred Stone" |
| Date: |
02 Sep 2003 03:01:33 PM |
| Object: |
Paul Hill to be executed Wednesday |
http://www.news4jax.com/news/2440849/detail.html
Martyr To Some, Murderer To Others - Paul Hill Faces Execution
Convict May Be First American Executed For Anti-Abortion Violence
UPDATED: 10:24 a.m. EDT September 2, 2003
STARKE, Fla. -- Barring the unlikely possibility of a stay, a
Presbyterian minister who gunned down a Fernandina Beach abortion doctor
may next week become the first American executed for anti-abortion violence.
To a loyal core of admirers, Paul Hill is a martyr-to-be whose actions
were justified by the Bible. To others, on both sides of the abortion
debate, he is a zealot undeserving of respect or pity.
"In a very significant way, it's a sad day," said Gloria Feldt,
president of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America. "It's sad
that people like Paul Hill would murder in the name of life."
Hill, a 49-year-old father of three, is scheduled to be executed by
lethal injection Wednesday in Starke for the 1994 shotgun slayings of
Dr. John Britton of Fernandina Beach, and his volunteer escort, retired
Air Force officer James Barrett, outside the clinic where Britton
performed abortions.
John Britton showing bullet-proof deskBefore his death, Britton showed
Channel 4 the bullet-proof vest he wore when commuting to the clinic,
and said he was aware of the risks.
"I try to keep my eyes open and look around, but I'm not anymore afraid
than I would be in any other situation," Britton said.
Hill wants to die and is not pursuing an appeal.
Abortion-rights groups worry that Hill's execution will trigger a
backlash by those who share his steadfast belief that violence in
defense of unborn children is justified. Several Florida officials
connected to the case received threatening letters last week,
accompanied by rifle bullets.
"We need to take these threats seriously," said Vicki Saporta, president
of the National Abortion Federation.
Though Hill still has supporters -- they have maintained a Web site in
his honor, with snapshots and ballads -- most major anti-abortion groups
have repudiated him.
"We and other pro-life organizations are against violence, period," said
Erik Whittington of the American Life League. "What he did is definitely
not anything that anyone I know of supports."
Tom Glessner, director of the National Institute of Family and Life
Advocates, said Hill deserves the death penalty.
"He's not a pro-lifer, as far as I'm concerned," Glessner said. "Osama
bin Laden acted out of conviction, too."
However, the Rev. Michael Bray of Bowie, Md., the author of a book that
justifies the killing of abortion doctors, said Hill "will be recognized
after the fact as the honorable man that he is."
--
Fred Stone
Conquering the Galaxy since 2003
.
|
|
| User: "David Haapala" |
|
| Title: Re: Paul Hill to be executed Wednesday |
02 Sep 2003 04:58:47 PM |
|
|
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:3F54F71D.4020308@earthling.com...
| http://www.news4jax.com/news/2440849/detail.html
|
| Martyr To Some, Murderer To Others - Paul Hill Faces Execution
| Convict May Be First American Executed For Anti-Abortion Violence
|
| UPDATED: 10:24 a.m. EDT September 2, 2003
| STARKE, Fla. -- Barring the unlikely possibility of a stay, a
| Presbyterian minister who gunned down a Fernandina Beach abortion doctor
| may next week become the first American executed for anti-abortion
violence.
|
| To a loyal core of admirers, Paul Hill is a martyr-to-be whose actions
| were justified by the Bible. To others, on both sides of the abortion
| debate, he is a zealot undeserving of respect or pity.
|
| "In a very significant way, it's a sad day," said Gloria Feldt,
| president of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America. "It's sad
| that people like Paul Hill would murder in the name of life."
|
| Hill, a 49-year-old father of three, is scheduled to be executed by
| lethal injection Wednesday in Starke for the 1994 shotgun slayings of
| Dr. John Britton of Fernandina Beach, and his volunteer escort, retired
| Air Force officer James Barrett, outside the clinic where Britton
| performed abortions.
|
| John Britton showing bullet-proof deskBefore his death, Britton showed
| Channel 4 the bullet-proof vest he wore when commuting to the clinic,
| and said he was aware of the risks.
|
| "I try to keep my eyes open and look around, but I'm not anymore afraid
| than I would be in any other situation," Britton said.
|
| Hill wants to die and is not pursuing an appeal.
|
| Abortion-rights groups worry that Hill's execution will trigger a
| backlash by those who share his steadfast belief that violence in
| defense of unborn children is justified. Several Florida officials
| connected to the case received threatening letters last week,
| accompanied by rifle bullets.
|
| "We need to take these threats seriously," said Vicki Saporta, president
| of the National Abortion Federation.
|
| Though Hill still has supporters -- they have maintained a Web site in
| his honor, with snapshots and ballads -- most major anti-abortion groups
| have repudiated him.
|
| "We and other pro-life organizations are against violence, period," said
| Erik Whittington of the American Life League. "What he did is definitely
| not anything that anyone I know of supports."
|
| Tom Glessner, director of the National Institute of Family and Life
| Advocates, said Hill deserves the death penalty.
|
| "He's not a pro-lifer, as far as I'm concerned," Glessner said. "Osama
| bin Laden acted out of conviction, too."
|
| However, the Rev. Michael Bray of Bowie, Md., the author of a book that
| justifies the killing of abortion doctors, said Hill "will be recognized
| after the fact as the honorable man that he is."
|
| --
| Fred Stone
| Conquering the Galaxy since 2003
|
Can you imagine what this guy is putting his own children through?
Can you imagine how screwed-up in the head his kids are going to be
after all of this?
I wish they could kill the ***** 10 times...
.
|
|
|
| User: "neo ancient" |
|
| Title: Re: Paul Hill to be executed Wednesday |
02 Sep 2003 06:08:50 PM |
|
|
"David Haapala" <dhaapala@houston.removethis.rr.com> wrote in
news:ro85b.38087$_B.1777263@twister.austin.rr.com:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:3F54F71D.4020308@earthling.com...
| http://www.news4jax.com/news/2440849/detail.html
Can you imagine what this guy is putting his own children through?
Can you imagine how screwed-up in the head his kids are going to be
after all of this?
I wish they could kill the ***** 10 times...
is it me or is the death penalty a pretty fucked up idea in general?
it's difficult to argue consistently for killing as punishment for the
heinous crime of killing (especially as in this case, the killing was
arguably to protect unborn foetus's from being killed). I'm not making
any judgements here because I'm not equipped to pass judgement on any
piece of this jigsaw puzzle of moral dilemmas, but i can't see how either
party (Hill and his supporters, or the state who sentenced him to death)
could consistently justify their actions.
so as not to be misunderstood, in my view hill was a dangerous man from
whom society needed to be protected. i just don't think he should have
been killed.
.
|
|
|
| User: "JTEM" |
|
| Title: Re: Paul Hill to be executed Wednesday |
03 Sep 2003 01:30:33 AM |
|
|
"neo ancient" <neoancient@hotmail.com> wrote
is it me or is the death penalty a pretty fucked up idea in
general?
It's not you.
The clue for the clueless is the fact that the psychotic killer
wants to die.
it's difficult to argue consistently for killing as punishment for
the heinous crime of killing (especially as in this case, the
killing was arguably to protect unborn foetus's from being
killed).
The state is using the exact same "logic" as the murderer, if that's
what you mean.
.
|
|
|
| User: "neo ancient" |
|
| Title: Re: Paul Hill to be executed Wednesday |
03 Sep 2003 10:33:06 AM |
|
|
"JTEM" <jaytem@yahoo.com> wrote in news:RsidnbqZotG8F8iiU-
KYgw@comcast.com:
"neo ancient" <neoancient@hotmail.com> wrote
is it me or is the death penalty a pretty fucked up idea in
general?
It's not you.
The clue for the clueless is the fact that the psychotic killer
wants to die.
it's difficult to argue consistently for killing as punishment for
the heinous crime of killing (especially as in this case, the
killing was arguably to protect unborn foetus's from being
killed).
The state is using the exact same "logic" as the murderer, if that's
what you mean.
Almost what I mean. It is the same logic as far as both Hill and the
State would claim they are taking life to protect innocents. But there
are tangible differences between the state fulfilling its duty to
provide a system of "justice" (an impossible ideal, if you happen to
view it as an ideal) and an individual acting outside the law in persuit
of the same goal.
I also find the death penalty pretty distasteful. It cheapens the idea
of taking a life if the state and decree that certain people don't
deserve to live. It just seems intrinsically barbaric to me, but I
understand that is an emotional and individual reaction.
I'm a rehabilitation man myself. If something's broken, don't break more
of it; instead fix what you can.
jez.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Beowulf" |
|
| Title: Re: Paul Hill to be executed Wednesday |
03 Sep 2003 11:17:22 AM |
|
|
On 3 Sep 2003 15:33:06 GMT, neo ancient <neoancient@hotmail.com>
ejaculated:
"JTEM" <jaytem@yahoo.com> wrote in news:RsidnbqZotG8F8iiU-
KYgw@comcast.com:
"neo ancient" <neoancient@hotmail.com> wrote
is it me or is the death penalty a pretty fucked up idea in
general?
It's not you.
The clue for the clueless is the fact that the psychotic killer
wants to die.
it's difficult to argue consistently for killing as punishment for
the heinous crime of killing (especially as in this case, the
killing was arguably to protect unborn foetus's from being
killed).
The state is using the exact same "logic" as the murderer, if that's
what you mean.
Almost what I mean. It is the same logic as far as both Hill and the
State would claim they are taking life to protect innocents. But there
are tangible differences between the state fulfilling its duty to
provide a system of "justice" (an impossible ideal, if you happen to
view it as an ideal) and an individual acting outside the law in persuit
of the same goal.
I also find the death penalty pretty distasteful. It cheapens the idea
of taking a life if the state and decree that certain people don't
deserve to live. It just seems intrinsically barbaric to me, but I
understand that is an emotional and individual reaction.
I'm a rehabilitation man myself. If something's broken, don't break more
of it; instead fix what you can.
What is there to fix in someone like Hill? Do you think throwing him
into a cage with a bunch of other criminals is going to re-educate him
into thinking that his political ideas are wrong? If not, what do you
suggest as an alternative for re-educating Hill? Who decides who gets
the re-education? Why wait until Hill kills someone? Why not
re-educate him proactively, as soon as he espouses undesirable ideas?
Personally, I'll take the death penalty instead. At least we're
unlikely to start throwing the death penalty aronud indiscriminately.
--
Diesels do it by squeezing real hard.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Dr. DuFonet" |
|
| Title: Re: Paul Hill to be executed Wednesday |
02 Sep 2003 08:32:23 PM |
|
|
"neo ancient" <neoancient@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93EB13FA48EAneoancienthotmailcom@130.133.1.4...
"David Haapala" <dhaapala@houston.removethis.rr.com> wrote in
news:ro85b.38087$_B.1777263@twister.austin.rr.com:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:3F54F71D.4020308@earthling.com...
| http://www.news4jax.com/news/2440849/detail.html
Can you imagine what this guy is putting his own children through?
Can you imagine how screwed-up in the head his kids are going to be
after all of this?
I wish they could kill the ***** 10 times...
is it me or is the death penalty a pretty fucked up idea in general?
it's difficult to argue consistently for killing as punishment for the
heinous crime of killing (especially as in this case, the killing was
arguably to protect unborn foetus's from being killed). I'm not making
any judgements here because I'm not equipped to pass judgement on any
piece of this jigsaw puzzle of moral dilemmas, but i can't see how either
party (Hill and his supporters, or the state who sentenced him to death)
could consistently justify their actions.
so as not to be misunderstood, in my view hill was a dangerous man from
whom society needed to be protected. i just don't think he should have
been killed.
I could not agree more. It elevates the state to a level above its
competence to be allowed to take a life except in war, if then.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "William Klee" |
|
| Title: Re: Paul Hill to be executed Wednesday |
02 Sep 2003 08:41:45 PM |
|
|
In article <Xns93EB13FA48EAneoancienthotmailcom@130.133.1.4>, neo
ancient <neoancient@hotmail.com> wrote:
"David Haapala" <dhaapala@houston.removethis.rr.com> wrote in
news:ro85b.38087$_B.1777263@twister.austin.rr.com:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:3F54F71D.4020308@earthling.com...
| http://www.news4jax.com/news/2440849/detail.html
Can you imagine what this guy is putting his own children through?
Can you imagine how screwed-up in the head his kids are going to be
after all of this?
I wish they could kill the ***** 10 times...
is it me or is the death penalty a pretty fucked up idea in general?
it's difficult to argue consistently for killing as punishment for the
heinous crime of killing (especially as in this case, the killing was
arguably to protect unborn foetus's from being killed). I'm not making
any judgements here because I'm not equipped to pass judgement on any
piece of this jigsaw puzzle of moral dilemmas, but i can't see how either
party (Hill and his supporters, or the state who sentenced him to death)
could consistently justify their actions.
so as not to be misunderstood, in my view hill was a dangerous man from
whom society needed to be protected. i just don't think he should have
been killed.
I know it ain't deep or philosophical, but there's only one reason I
can come up with for the death penalty: he won't do it again.
.
|
|
|
| User: "JTEM" |
|
| Title: Re: Paul Hill to be executed Wednesday |
03 Sep 2003 01:31:49 AM |
|
|
"William Klee" <fnord@yahoo.com> wrote
I know it ain't deep or philosophical, but there's only one
reason I can come up with for the death penalty: he won't
do it again.
Blinding him would accomplish that.
You can't shoot what you can't see.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Elroy Willis" |
|
| Title: Re: Paul Hill to be executed Wednesday |
04 Sep 2003 06:53:56 AM |
|
|
"JTEM" <jaytem@yahoo.com> wrote in alt.atheism
"William Klee" <fnord@yahoo.com> wrote
I know it ain't deep or philosophical, but there's only one
reason I can come up with for the death penalty: he won't
do it again.
Blinding him would accomplish that.
You can't shoot what you can't see.
I was gonna suggest life in solitary confinement. No contact with
anyone at all. Nobody to talk to, no tv, nothing to read, not even a
Bible. Just him and his make-believe god stuck in a cell for the rest
of his life.
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Adam Marczyk" |
|
| Title: Re: Paul Hill to be executed Wednesday |
02 Sep 2003 08:13:18 PM |
|
|
neo ancient <neoancient@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93EB13FA48EAneoancienthotmailcom@130.133.1.4...
"David Haapala" <dhaapala@houston.removethis.rr.com> wrote in
news:ro85b.38087$_B.1777263@twister.austin.rr.com:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:3F54F71D.4020308@earthling.com...
http://www.news4jax.com/news/2440849/detail.html
Can you imagine what this guy is putting his own children through?
Can you imagine how screwed-up in the head his kids are going to be
after all of this?
I wish they could kill the ***** 10 times...
is it me or is the death penalty a pretty fucked up idea in general?
it's difficult to argue consistently for killing as punishment for the
heinous crime of killing (especially as in this case, the killing was
arguably to protect unborn foetus's from being killed). I'm not making
any judgements here because I'm not equipped to pass judgement on any
piece of this jigsaw puzzle of moral dilemmas, but i can't see how either
party (Hill and his supporters, or the state who sentenced him to death)
could consistently justify their actions.
so as not to be misunderstood, in my view hill was a dangerous man from
whom society needed to be protected. i just don't think he should have
been killed.
The only reason I oppose the death penalty is the fear that innocent people
might end up being executed. Since Hill has admitted his guilt and,
moreover, has said he would kill again given any opportunity to do so (see
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=3375930), I
have no moral objection to putting him to death. Of course, the problem
with zealots like these is that they welcome death, hoping to be rewarded
for their killings by their savage god, so the death penalty might not have
the appropriate deterrent effect. Anyone have any idea how we can
discourage fanatics like this?
--
"We have loved the stars too fondly | a.a. #2001
to be fearful of the night." | http://www.ebonmusings.org
--Tombstone epitaph of | e-mail: ebonmuse!hotmail.com
two amateur astronomers, | ICQ: 8777843
quoted in Carl Sagan's _Cosmos_ | PGP Key ID: 0x5C66F737
----------------------------------------------------------------------
.
|
|
|
| User: "Beowulf" |
|
| Title: Re: Paul Hill to be executed Wednesday |
03 Sep 2003 08:29:44 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 01:13:18 GMT, "Adam Marczyk" <see@sig.com>
ejaculated:
neo ancient <neoancient@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93EB13FA48EAneoancienthotmailcom@130.133.1.4...
"David Haapala" <dhaapala@houston.removethis.rr.com> wrote in
news:ro85b.38087$_B.1777263@twister.austin.rr.com:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:3F54F71D.4020308@earthling.com...
http://www.news4jax.com/news/2440849/detail.html
Can you imagine what this guy is putting his own children through?
Can you imagine how screwed-up in the head his kids are going to be
after all of this?
I wish they could kill the ***** 10 times...
is it me or is the death penalty a pretty fucked up idea in general?
it's difficult to argue consistently for killing as punishment for the
heinous crime of killing (especially as in this case, the killing was
arguably to protect unborn foetus's from being killed). I'm not making
any judgements here because I'm not equipped to pass judgement on any
piece of this jigsaw puzzle of moral dilemmas, but i can't see how either
party (Hill and his supporters, or the state who sentenced him to death)
could consistently justify their actions.
so as not to be misunderstood, in my view hill was a dangerous man from
whom society needed to be protected. i just don't think he should have
been killed.
The only reason I oppose the death penalty is the fear that innocent people
might end up being executed. Since Hill has admitted his guilt and,
moreover, has said he would kill again given any opportunity to do so (see
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=3375930), I
have no moral objection to putting him to death. Of course, the problem
with zealots like these is that they welcome death, hoping to be rewarded
for their killings by their savage god, so the death penalty might not have
the appropriate deterrent effect. Anyone have any idea how we can
discourage fanatics like this?
I don't understand the "death penalty as deterrent" claim. I doubt
people who deserve the death penalty (lunatic zealots, kid fuckers,
serial killers/rapists and the like) are concerned about what the
consequences of their actions may be should they be caught.
In my opinion, the death penalty is all about retribution and the
final removal from society of those that don't deserve its benefits
any longer. I don't have a problem with that. If someone killed my
children or my wife in cold blood because of some lunatic idea they
had, I would demand that they be put to death, as well.
The real sticking point, though, as you point out, is the chance that
innocent people will be put to death. That is a truly terrible thing.
It's enough to give me pause whenever the topic comes up, but I just
can't persuade myself out of the opinion that it is unjust to let
people who commit heinous crimes to continue living.
--
"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society?
In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the
ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen
upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been
the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the
public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries.
A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not."
[James Madison, "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785.]
.
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|
| User: "Dr. Smartass" |
|
| Title: Re: Paul Hill to be executed Wednesday |
02 Sep 2003 10:50:40 PM |
|
|
"David Haapala" <dhaapala@houston.removethis.rr.com> wrote in
news:ro85b.38087$_B.1777263@twister.austin.rr.com:
Can you imagine what this guy is putting his own children through?
Can you imagine how screwed-up in the head his kids are going to be
after all of this?
I wish they could kill the ***** 10 times...
I just wish they could bring Jim (Barrett) back. He was a good friend. I
only recently learned that he'd been planning on quitting the clinic escort
stuff. After he was killed, I decided that _I_ wasn't going to keep
escorting either.
In an ironic twist, the anti-abortion protests have pretty much dried up
(the locals don't want to be associated with Hill), so I suppose _some_
good came of it.
As for Hill...griddance to the evil sumbitch. When I was working at a local
convenience store in 1993-94, he came in during my shift one afternoon.
Scared the ***** out of me, even though he just bought a few things and
left, pleasant as you please. There was just something about him that just
wasn't "right," if that makes sense.
--
Dr. Smartass
BAAWA Knight of Heckling -- a.a. #1939
"And the knowledge that they fear
Is a weapon to be used against them."
--Rush, "The Weapon"
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Claytons Roasting On An Open Fire" |
|
| Title: Re: Paul Hill to be executed Wednesday |
02 Sep 2003 09:25:05 PM |
|
|
"David Haapala" <dhaapala@houston.removethis.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ro85b.38087$_B.1777263@twister.austin.rr.com...
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:3F54F71D.4020308@earthling.com...
| http://www.news4jax.com/news/2440849/detail.html
|
| Martyr To Some, Murderer To Others - Paul Hill Faces Execution
| Convict May Be First American Executed For Anti-Abortion Violence
|
| UPDATED: 10:24 a.m. EDT September 2, 2003
| STARKE, Fla. -- Barring the unlikely possibility of a stay, a
| Presbyterian minister who gunned down a Fernandina Beach abortion doctor
| may next week become the first American executed for anti-abortion
violence.
|
| To a loyal core of admirers, Paul Hill is a martyr-to-be whose actions
| were justified by the Bible. To others, on both sides of the abortion
| debate, he is a zealot undeserving of respect or pity.
|
| "In a very significant way, it's a sad day," said Gloria Feldt,
| president of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America. "It's sad
| that people like Paul Hill would murder in the name of life."
|
| Hill, a 49-year-old father of three, is scheduled to be executed by
| lethal injection Wednesday in Starke for the 1994 shotgun slayings of
| Dr. John Britton of Fernandina Beach, and his volunteer escort, retired
| Air Force officer James Barrett, outside the clinic where Britton
| performed abortions.
|
| John Britton showing bullet-proof deskBefore his death, Britton showed
| Channel 4 the bullet-proof vest he wore when commuting to the clinic,
| and said he was aware of the risks.
|
| "I try to keep my eyes open and look around, but I'm not anymore afraid
| than I would be in any other situation," Britton said.
|
| Hill wants to die and is not pursuing an appeal.
|
| Abortion-rights groups worry that Hill's execution will trigger a
| backlash by those who share his steadfast belief that violence in
| defense of unborn children is justified. Several Florida officials
| connected to the case received threatening letters last week,
| accompanied by rifle bullets.
|
| "We need to take these threats seriously," said Vicki Saporta, president
| of the National Abortion Federation.
|
| Though Hill still has supporters -- they have maintained a Web site in
| his honor, with snapshots and ballads -- most major anti-abortion groups
| have repudiated him.
|
| "We and other pro-life organizations are against violence, period," said
| Erik Whittington of the American Life League. "What he did is definitely
| not anything that anyone I know of supports."
|
| Tom Glessner, director of the National Institute of Family and Life
| Advocates, said Hill deserves the death penalty.
|
| "He's not a pro-lifer, as far as I'm concerned," Glessner said. "Osama
| bin Laden acted out of conviction, too."
|
| However, the Rev. Michael Bray of Bowie, Md., the author of a book that
| justifies the killing of abortion doctors, said Hill "will be recognized
| after the fact as the honorable man that he is."
|
| --
| Fred Stone
| Conquering the Galaxy since 2003
|
Can you imagine what this guy is putting his own children through?
Can you imagine how screwed-up in the head his kids are going to be
after all of this?
Don't worry..they will be following in his footsteps very soon. They
probably already have the guns and targets picked out.
I wish they could kill the ***** 10 times...
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Paul Hill to be executed Wednesday |
02 Sep 2003 05:51:28 PM |
|
|
David Haapala wrote:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:3F54F71D.4020308@earthling.com...
| http://www.news4jax.com/news/2440849/detail.html
|
| Martyr To Some, Murderer To Others - Paul Hill Faces Execution
| Convict May Be First American Executed For Anti-Abortion Violence
|
| UPDATED: 10:24 a.m. EDT September 2, 2003
| STARKE, Fla. -- Barring the unlikely possibility of a stay, a
| Presbyterian minister who gunned down a Fernandina Beach abortion doctor
| may next week become the first American executed for anti-abortion
violence.
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<...>
Can you imagine what this guy is putting his own children through?
Can you imagine how screwed-up in the head his kids are going to be
after all of this?
I wish they could kill the ***** 10 times...
Too bad we switched off Ol' Sparky a few years ago.
--
Fred Stone
Conquering the Galaxy since 2003
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Paul Hill to be executed Wednesday |
03 Sep 2003 01:28:18 AM |
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"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote
Too bad we switched off Ol' Sparky a few years ago.
Surprise-surprise: I'm not fan of the death penalty.
Not that I've ever lost any sleep over an executed murderer,
but the death penalty -- in its present form -- is nothing short
of biblical retribution on sinners.
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Re: Paul Hill to be executed Wednesday |
03 Sep 2003 09:44:08 AM |
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JTEM wrote:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote
Too bad we switched off Ol' Sparky a few years ago.
Surprise-surprise: I'm not fan of the death penalty.
Not that I've ever lost any sleep over an executed murderer,
but the death penalty -- in its present form -- is nothing short
of biblical retribution on sinners.
I'm inclined to agree with you. Aside from the fact that people on death
row have been proven NOT to have committed the crimes for which they
were convicted (had it not been for lengthy appeals, innocent people
would have been murdered by the state), you get people who use the death
penalty as a form of suicide. Worse, you get people like Hill who use
the death penalty as a political statement and to make themselves in to
a martyr for a nut case "cause."
I have an uneasy feeling that he will be coming back for years to bite
us all in the *****.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
Is your faith so weak and your god so powerless
that, without government endorsement of your
religion, all hell will break loose?
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Paul Hill to be executed Wednesday |
07 Sep 2003 02:50:56 AM |
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"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote
I have an uneasy feeling that he will be coming back for
years to bite us all in the *****.
I don't think we'll be that lucky, that it'll only be our asses
we have to worry about.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Paul Hill to be executed Wednesday |
04 Sep 2003 01:19:58 AM |
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In article <3F55FE38.5136C222@serv.net>,
Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote:
JTEM wrote:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote
Too bad we switched off Ol' Sparky a few years ago.
Surprise-surprise: I'm not fan of the death penalty.
Not that I've ever lost any sleep over an executed murderer,
but the death penalty -- in its present form -- is nothing short
of biblical retribution on sinners.
I'm inclined to agree with you. Aside from the fact that people on death
row have been proven NOT to have committed the crimes for which they
were convicted (had it not been for lengthy appeals, innocent people
would have been murdered by the state), you get people who use the death
penalty as a form of suicide. Worse, you get people like Hill who use
the death penalty as a political statement and to make themselves in to
a martyr for a nut case "cause."
I have an uneasy feeling that he will be coming back for years to bite
us all in the *****.
I agree. Killing this guy will do nothing except stir up a bunch of
his nutcase associates. He was even looking forward to it! He expected
a "great reward". Hah!
I'm against the death penalty also. I won't lose any sleep over this,
but I would have preferred to see him rot in a cell for the rest of
his life.
--
John Hachmann, aa #1782
Pierre Laplace, when asked by Napoleon on why he made
no mention of a god in his book on astronomy: "Sire,
I have no need of that hypothesis."
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Paul Hill to be executed Wednesday |
07 Sep 2003 02:52:16 AM |
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"johac" <jhachm@remove.ixpres.com> wrote
I agree. Killing this guy will do nothing except stir
up a bunch of his nutcase associates.
Be honest now, do you really believe that not one
person in Florida's government thought of this?
I mean, before the press conference they gave him?
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Paul Hill to be executed Wednesday |
04 Sep 2003 06:43:01 AM |
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johac <jhachm@remove.ixpres.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote:
JTEM wrote:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote
Too bad we switched off Ol' Sparky a few years ago.
Surprise-surprise: I'm not fan of the death penalty.
Not that I've ever lost any sleep over an executed murderer,
but the death penalty -- in its present form -- is nothing short
of biblical retribution on sinners.
I'm inclined to agree with you. Aside from the fact that people on death
row have been proven NOT to have committed the crimes for which they
were convicted (had it not been for lengthy appeals, innocent people
would have been murdered by the state), you get people who use the death
penalty as a form of suicide. Worse, you get people like Hill who use
the death penalty as a political statement and to make themselves in to
a martyr for a nut case "cause."
I have an uneasy feeling that he will be coming back for years to bite
us all in the *****.
I agree. Killing this guy will do nothing except stir up a bunch of
his nutcase associates. He was even looking forward to it! He expected
a "great reward". Hah!
I saw that on the news last night. He thinks his god is gonna be
praising him in heaven for what he did. Same type thinking of the
suicide bombers I suppose. At least most of the pro-life people don't
seem to support what he did.
I'm against the death penalty also. I won't lose any sleep over this,
but I would have preferred to see him rot in a cell for the rest of
his life.
Same here.
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Paul Hill to be executed Wednesday |
04 Sep 2003 11:58:26 PM |
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In article <e29elv44fi1n4ku4o3k0qfitgig0h73ftr@4ax.com>,
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote:
johac <jhachm@remove.ixpres.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote:
JTEM wrote:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote
Too bad we switched off Ol' Sparky a few years ago.
Surprise-surprise: I'm not fan of the death penalty.
Not that I've ever lost any sleep over an executed murderer,
but the death penalty -- in its present form -- is nothing short
of biblical retribution on sinners.
I'm inclined to agree with you. Aside from the fact that people on death
row have been proven NOT to have committed the crimes for which they
were convicted (had it not been for lengthy appeals, innocent people
would have been murdered by the state), you get people who use the death
penalty as a form of suicide. Worse, you get people like Hill who use
the death penalty as a political statement and to make themselves in to
a martyr for a nut case "cause."
I have an uneasy feeling that he will be coming back for years to bite
us all in the *****.
I agree. Killing this guy will do nothing except stir up a bunch of
his nutcase associates. He was even looking forward to it! He expected
a "great reward". Hah!
I saw that on the news last night. He thinks his god is gonna be
praising him in heaven for what he did. Same type thinking of the
suicide bombers I suppose. At least most of the pro-life people don't
seem to support what he did.
That is what makes no sense to me. How can someone who claims to be
'pro-life' justify murder?
I'm against the death penalty also. I won't lose any sleep over this,
but I would have preferred to see him rot in a cell for the rest of
his life.
Same here.
--
John Hachmann, aa #1782
Pierre Laplace, when asked by Napoleon on why he made
no mention of a god in his book on astronomy: "Sire,
I have no need of that hypothesis."
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| User: "Liz" |
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| Title: Re: Paul Hill to be executed Wednesday |
05 Sep 2003 06:18:39 AM |
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On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 21:58:26 -0700, johac <jhachm@remove.ixpres.com>
in news message <jhachm-687163.21582604092003@central.giganews.com>
wrote:
That is what makes no sense to me. How can someone who claims to be
'pro-life' justify murder?
With GodŽ, all things are possible.
Liz #658 BAAWA
4th Law: Most people cannot imagine a god morally superior
to themselves; if you want to know what such a person would
do if they had ultimate power, ask them about their deity.
-- Abner Mintz
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Paul Hill to be executed Wednesday |
06 Sep 2003 01:15:59 AM |
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In article <amrglvojq6a8t8b2bj7fcj77hhpaj36nqi@4ax.com>,
Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:
On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 21:58:26 -0700, johac <jhachm@remove.ixpres.com>
in news message <jhachm-687163.21582604092003@central.giganews.com>
wrote:
That is what makes no sense to me. How can someone who claims to be
'pro-life' justify murder?
With GodŽ, all things are possible.
I suppose that he was just trying to imitate his *GAWD* who, if I read
the OT correctly, murdered quite a few on his own.
--
John Hachmann, aa #1782
Pierre Laplace, when asked by Napoleon on why he made
no mention of a god in his book on astronomy: "Sire,
I have no need of that hypothesis."
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| User: "Alan Hobson" |
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| Title: Re: Paul Hill to be executed Wednesday |
03 Sep 2003 01:45:38 PM |
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Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message news:<3F54F71D.4020308@earthling.com>...
However, the Rev. Michael Bray of Bowie, Md., the author of a book that
justifies the killing of abortion doctors, said Hill "will be recognized
after the fact as the honorable man that he is."
Bray's name is appropriate -- the sound a jackass makes.
-Alan
aa#1608 BAAWA
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| User: "jwk" |
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| Title: Re: Paul Hill to be executed Wednesday |
03 Sep 2003 08:35:12 AM |
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Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message news:<3F54F71D.4020308@earthling.com>...
http://www.news4jax.com/news/2440849/detail.html
Martyr To Some, Murderer To Others - Paul Hill Faces Execution
Everybody dance.
[snip]
Abortion-rights groups worry that Hill's execution will trigger a
backlash by those who share his steadfast belief that violence in
defense of unborn children is justified.
I'd be willing to bet big money that *they aren't are the no-fly list
either.
[snip
Though Hill still has supporters -- they have maintained a Web site in
his honor, with snapshots and ballads -- most major anti-abortion groups
have repudiated him.
[snip]
However, the Rev. Michael Bray of Bowie, Md., the author of a book that
justifies the killing of abortion doctors, said Hill "will be recognized
after the fact as the honorable man that he is."
Which is why this fucker needs to die- to give the rest of these
bastards pause. The thought of being idolized, even while they are in
prison, or even after death, appeals to them. But. at least for some,
death is a deterrent. Rev Bray needs to be executed just for
*advocating killing doctors in my opinion.
jwk
BAAWA
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| User: "Will" |
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| Title: Re: Paul Hill to be executed Wednesday |
06 Sep 2003 02:36:10 PM |
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Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message news:<3F54F71D.4020308@earthling.com>...
http://www.news4jax.com/news/2440849/detail.html
Martyr To Some, Murderer To Others - Paul Hill Faces Execution
Convict May Be First American Executed For Anti-Abortion Violence
UPDATED: 10:24 a.m. EDT September 2, 2003
STARKE, Fla. -- Barring the unlikely possibility of a stay, a
Presbyterian minister who gunned down a Fernandina Beach abortion doctor
may next week become the first American executed for anti-abortion violence.
To a loyal core of admirers, Paul Hill is a martyr-to-be whose actions
were justified by the Bible. To others, on both sides of the abortion
debate, he is a zealot undeserving of respect or pity.
"In a very significant way, it's a sad day," said Gloria Feldt,
president of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America. "It's sad
that people like Paul Hill would murder in the name of life."
Hill, a 49-year-old father of three, is scheduled to be executed by
lethal injection Wednesday in Starke for the 1994 shotgun slayings of
Dr. John Britton of Fernandina Beach, and his volunteer escort, retired
Air Force officer James Barrett, outside the clinic where Britton
performed abortions.
John Britton showing bullet-proof deskBefore his death, Britton showed
Channel 4 the bullet-proof vest he wore when commuting to the clinic,
and said he was aware of the risks.
"I try to keep my eyes open and look around, but I'm not anymore afraid
than I would be in any other situation," Britton said.
Hill wants to die and is not pursuing an appeal.
Abortion-rights groups worry that Hill's execution will trigger a
backlash by those who share his steadfast belief that violence in
defense of unborn children is justified. Several Florida officials
connected to the case received threatening letters last week,
accompanied by rifle bullets.
"We need to take these threats seriously," said Vicki Saporta, president
of the National Abortion Federation.
Though Hill still has supporters -- they have maintained a Web site in
his honor, with snapshots and ballads -- most major anti-abortion groups
have repudiated him.
"We and other pro-life organizations are against violence, period," said
Erik Whittington of the American Life League. "What he did is definitely
not anything that anyone I know of supports."
Tom Glessner, director of the National Institute of Family and Life
Advocates, said Hill deserves the death penalty.
"He's not a pro-lifer, as far as I'm concerned," Glessner said. "Osama
bin Laden acted out of conviction, too."
However, the Rev. Michael Bray of Bowie, Md., the author of a book that
justifies the killing of abortion doctors, said Hill "will be recognized
after the fact as the honorable man that he is."
As much as I loathed Paul Hill and found him not only obnoxious but
utterly horrifying, I don't think he should have been executed. I have
two reasons (1) I think the death penalty is cruel, atavistic and
applied with such miserable inconsistency that a fair and rational
society should abandon it (on the other hand, I think prisons should
be joyless places where prisoners are made to work hard at manual
labor, where time hangs, where almost everything is a priviledge and
almost nothing a "right"), and (2) I think it much more appropriate
for a fiend like Hill to be committed to a prison especially designed
to hold the criminally insane. Alive but officially insane, he would
never be a martyr or cause, and there might be the possibility that at
some point he would suffer remorse, recant his murders, and beg the
forgiveness of the surviving victim and the relatives of those who
died.
Any comments?
Will
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| User: "Giorgio Torrieri" |
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| Title: Re: Paul Hill to be executed Wednesday |
03 Sep 2003 10:41:42 AM |
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Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message news:<3F54F71D.4020308@earthling.com>...
http://www.news4jax.com/news/2440849/detail.html
Martyr To Some, Murderer To Others - Paul Hill Faces Execution
Convict May Be First American Executed For Anti-Abortion Violence
Personally I am against the death penalty, and that includes
executing a Psycho like Paul Hill.
However, I have a question to ask:
I just surveyed tens of stories in the media, and NOWHERE was he
referred as a terrorist.
Conversely, the enviroenmentalist extremists who burned a few SUVs in
a California Car dealership two weeks ago were referred to as terrorists
in every single article I read, despite the fact that no human being died
as a result of their actions (nor could they: The SUVs were burned at night)
and the desctruction of property is allready covered in the legal code as
vandalism.
Now, why would that be?
Don't worry, it is a rhetorical question.
GT
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| User: "quibbler" |
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| Title: Re: Paul Hill to be executed Wednesday |
03 Sep 2003 11:42:54 AM |
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In article <3F54F71D.4020308@earthling.com>,
says...
http://www.news4jax.com/news/2440849/detail.html
Martyr To Some, Murderer To Others - Paul Hill Faces Execution
Convict May Be First American Executed For Anti-Abortion Violence
The first, but hopefully not the last. That's why I don't oppose the
death penalty entirely. There are some people who are definitely a major
danger to society and who are very unlikely to be successfully
rehabilitated. This Hill guy is probably just a major psychopath who
wants an excuse to indulge in his murderous urges. It sounds like both
the people he killed were far better men than he could ever be and
therefore I don't have much reservation about this form of justice being
meted out to a person who is verifiably 100% guilty and completely
unrepentant.
--
_____________________________________________________
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
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