| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Haddon" |
| Date: |
16 Dec 2006 11:13:25 AM |
| Object: |
Please explain Chanukah for me |
I'm not getting the uplifting message here. From what I read there was
a group of people who invented a supernatural being who loved them
above anyone else. A few guys named Macabee led them to slaughter
greeks who did not believe in the same superstitions. As confirmation
that their status is special and that killing unbelievers is good, this
supernatural being rewarded them by making one day's worth of oil burn
for 8 days. (You'd think a rational explanation that the guy doing the
oil measurements was incorrect would be more reasonable).
So, tell me please why one would support this behaviour?
.
|
|
| User: "Mike Painter" |
|
| Title: Re: Please explain Chanukah for me |
16 Dec 2006 07:15:16 PM |
|
|
Haddon wrote:
I'm not getting the uplifting message here. From what I read there was
a group of people who invented a supernatural being who loved them
above anyone else. A few guys named Macabee led them to slaughter
greeks who did not believe in the same superstitions. As confirmation
that their status is special and that killing unbelievers is good,
this supernatural being rewarded them by making one day's worth of
oil burn for 8 days. (You'd think a rational explanation that the guy
doing the oil measurements was incorrect would be more reasonable).
So, tell me please why one would support this behaviour?
It's a hard question to answer this time of year, especially for kids in
mixed marriages.
Should they go for smaller presents but more of them over a period of time
or one big one on one day.
Trying for both, even in a divorce situation usually didn't work.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Al Klein" |
|
| Title: Re: Please explain Chanukah for me |
16 Dec 2006 10:02:43 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 01:15:16 GMT, "Mike Painter"
<mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
It's a hard question to answer this time of year, especially for kids in
mixed marriages.
Should they go for smaller presents but more of them over a period of time
or one big one on one day.
Or opt to live in a family that gives many Christmas presents to each
kid. You have to choose the right parents.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
If you are open to the point of gullibility and have not an
ounce of skeptical sense in you, then you cannot distinguish
the useful ideas from the worthless ones
- Carl Sagan, 1987.
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "L. Raymond" |
|
| Title: Re: Please explain Chanukah for me |
16 Dec 2006 01:03:15 PM |
|
|
Haddon wrote:
I'm not getting the uplifting message here. From what I read there was
a group of people who invented a supernatural being who loved them
above anyone else. A few guys named Macabee led them to slaughter
greeks who did not believe in the same superstitions. As confirmation
that their status is special and that killing unbelievers is good, this
supernatural being rewarded them by making one day's worth of oil burn
for 8 days. (You'd think a rational explanation that the guy doing the
oil measurements was incorrect would be more reasonable).
So, tell me please why one would support this behaviour?
I'd suggest asking this in a Jewish newsgroup.
--
L. Raymond
.
|
|
|
| User: "Denis Loubet" |
|
| Title: Re: Please explain Chanukah for me |
16 Dec 2006 05:42:17 PM |
|
|
"L. Raymond" <badaddress@mylinuxisp.com> wrote in message
news:370mhuy6i0wt$.q1lmhkmy4n0j.dlg@40tude.net...
Haddon wrote:
I'm not getting the uplifting message here. From what I read there was
a group of people who invented a supernatural being who loved them
above anyone else. A few guys named Macabee led them to slaughter
greeks who did not believe in the same superstitions. As confirmation
that their status is special and that killing unbelievers is good, this
supernatural being rewarded them by making one day's worth of oil burn
for 8 days. (You'd think a rational explanation that the guy doing the
oil measurements was incorrect would be more reasonable).
So, tell me please why one would support this behaviour?
I'd suggest asking this in a Jewish newsgroup.
But then he'd just get spin.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http//www.io.com/~dloubet
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "quibbler" |
|
| Title: Re: Please explain Chanukah for me |
16 Dec 2006 08:47:52 PM |
|
|
In article <1166289205.846700.309890@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
GeneDeLisa@gmail.com says...
I'm not getting the uplifting message here. From what I read there was
a group of people who invented a supernatural being who loved them
above anyone else. A few guys named Macabee led them to slaughter
greeks who did not believe in the same superstitions.
To be fair, Selucids like Antiochus IV were kind of being dicks, robbing
the temple treasuries, publicly scourging the high priest and performing
acts of overt desecration intended to offend pious jews. They were mad
that the Jews were resisting their efforts to Hellenize the culture. The
Maccabeans likewise were fanatic Jewish dicks who wanted to stamp out
anything non-jewish.
As confirmation
that their status is special and that killing unbelievers is good, this
supernatural being rewarded them by making one day's worth of oil burn
for 8 days.
The main significance was that the temple was recaptured. The *****
about the oil is pretty lame and not even universally agreed to in
Talmudic sources.
(You'd think a rational explanation that the guy doing the
oil measurements was incorrect would be more reasonable).
Or it was a lie, or the flame was extinguished and relit briefly each
day, or it only burned on one of the seven branches or whatever. The
most likely explanation was that it never happened and was made up after
the fact.
So, tell me please why one would support this behaviour?
Dunno. Guess it's an excuse to give presents. Do you think that Jews
are going to let Christers outdo them at being materialistic?
--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
.
|
|
|
| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
|
| Title: Re: Please explain Chanukah for me |
17 Dec 2006 11:01:17 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 19:47:52 -0700, in alt.atheism , quibbler
<quibbler247@yahoo.com> in
<MPG.1fee5dc73650db8b989d1e@news.readfreenews.net> wrote:
In article <1166289205.846700.309890@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
GeneDeLisa@gmail.com says...
I'm not getting the uplifting message here. From what I read there was
a group of people who invented a supernatural being who loved them
above anyone else. A few guys named Macabee led them to slaughter
greeks who did not believe in the same superstitions.
To be fair, Selucids like Antiochus IV were kind of being dicks, robbing
the temple treasuries, publicly scourging the high priest and performing
acts of overt desecration intended to offend pious jews. They were mad
that the Jews were resisting their efforts to Hellenize the culture. The
Maccabeans likewise were fanatic Jewish dicks who wanted to stamp out
anything non-jewish.
As confirmation
that their status is special and that killing unbelievers is good, this
supernatural being rewarded them by making one day's worth of oil burn
for 8 days.
The main significance was that the temple was recaptured. The *****
about the oil is pretty lame and not even universally agreed to in
Talmudic sources.
(You'd think a rational explanation that the guy doing the
oil measurements was incorrect would be more reasonable).
Or it was a lie, or the flame was extinguished and relit briefly each
day, or it only burned on one of the seven branches or whatever. The
most likely explanation was that it never happened and was made up after
the fact.
So, tell me please why one would support this behaviour?
Dunno. Guess it's an excuse to give presents. Do you think that Jews
are going to let Christers outdo them at being materialistic?
The presents part is mostly an American thing. Hanukah is
traditionally a minor holiday with little religious significance.
Children were given small presents, but that was not at all the center
of the holiday. Like most Jewish holidays it had a larger portion of
celebration with the family. There are no traditional religious
synagogue observances related to Hanukah IIANM.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Please explain Chanukah for me |
16 Dec 2006 03:10:53 PM |
|
|
On 16 Dec 2006 09:13:25 -0800, "Haddon" <GeneDeLisa@gmail.com> wrote:
- Refer: <1166289205.846700.309890@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
I'm not getting the uplifting message here. From what I read there was
a group of people who invented a supernatural being who loved them
above anyone else. A few guys named Macabee led them to slaughter
greeks who did not believe in the same superstitions. As confirmation
that their status is special and that killing unbelievers is good, this
supernatural being rewarded them by making one day's worth of oil burn
for 8 days. (You'd think a rational explanation that the guy doing the
oil measurements was incorrect would be more reasonable).
So, tell me please why one would support this behaviour?
One word: Religion
--
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Al Klein" |
|
| Title: Re: Please explain Chanukah for me |
16 Dec 2006 03:16:36 PM |
|
|
On 16 Dec 2006 09:13:25 -0800, "Haddon" <GeneDeLisa@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm not getting the uplifting message here. From what I read there was
a group of people who invented a supernatural being who loved them
above anyone else. A few guys named Macabee led them to slaughter
greeks who did not believe in the same superstitions. As confirmation
that their status is special and that killing unbelievers is good, this
supernatural being rewarded them by making one day's worth of oil burn
for 8 days. (You'd think a rational explanation that the guy doing the
oil measurements was incorrect would be more reasonable).
So, tell me please why one would support this behaviour?
For the same reason people believe that turning bread and wine into
the flesh and blood of a man who's been dead for 2,000 years (assuming
he ever existed, for which there's not the slightest shred of
evidence) will make them better people and send them to a place, for
which there's not the slightest shred of evidence, after they die.
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"The study of geology is ok-But not when it contradicts what is laid
out in the Bible that the earth is more than 10,000 years old."
- Doug Lee, Creationist
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
|
| Title: Re: Please explain Chanukah for me |
16 Dec 2006 03:01:10 PM |
|
|
On 16 Dec 2006 09:13:25 -0800, in alt.atheism , "Haddon"
<GeneDeLisa@gmail.com> in
<1166289205.846700.309890@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:
I'm not getting the uplifting message here. From what I read there was
a group of people who invented a supernatural being who loved them
above anyone else. A few guys named Macabee led them to slaughter
greeks who did not believe in the same superstitions. As confirmation
that their status is special and that killing unbelievers is good, this
supernatural being rewarded them by making one day's worth of oil burn
for 8 days. (You'd think a rational explanation that the guy doing the
oil measurements was incorrect would be more reasonable).
So, tell me please why one would support this behaviour?
Don't. I am pretty sure no one has asked you to. Allowing others to
practice their religion is not supporting it.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
|
|
|
| User: "Denis Loubet" |
|
| Title: Re: Please explain Chanukah for me |
16 Dec 2006 05:44:07 PM |
|
|
"Matt Silberstein" <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
message news:5jn8o2dhnppt11ih8iosqtqt1dgid4v646@4ax.com...
On 16 Dec 2006 09:13:25 -0800, in alt.atheism , "Haddon"
<GeneDeLisa@gmail.com> in
<1166289205.846700.309890@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:
I'm not getting the uplifting message here. From what I read there was
a group of people who invented a supernatural being who loved them
above anyone else. A few guys named Macabee led them to slaughter
greeks who did not believe in the same superstitions. As confirmation
that their status is special and that killing unbelievers is good, this
supernatural being rewarded them by making one day's worth of oil burn
for 8 days. (You'd think a rational explanation that the guy doing the
oil measurements was incorrect would be more reasonable).
So, tell me please why one would support this behaviour?
Don't. I am pretty sure no one has asked you to. Allowing others to
practice their religion is not supporting it.
But the "others" ARE supporting it.
He asked why ANYONE would support such a barbarous belief.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http//www.io.com/~dloubet
.
|
|
|
| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
|
| Title: Re: Please explain Chanukah for me |
17 Dec 2006 11:06:46 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 17:44:07 -0600, in alt.atheism , "Denis Loubet"
<dloubet@io.com> in <cqCdndLXwrtUGRnYnZ2dnUVZ_vWtnZ2d@io.com> wrote:
"Matt Silberstein" <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
message news:5jn8o2dhnppt11ih8iosqtqt1dgid4v646@4ax.com...
On 16 Dec 2006 09:13:25 -0800, in alt.atheism , "Haddon"
<GeneDeLisa@gmail.com> in
<1166289205.846700.309890@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:
I'm not getting the uplifting message here. From what I read there was
a group of people who invented a supernatural being who loved them
above anyone else. A few guys named Macabee led them to slaughter
greeks who did not believe in the same superstitions. As confirmation
that their status is special and that killing unbelievers is good, this
supernatural being rewarded them by making one day's worth of oil burn
for 8 days. (You'd think a rational explanation that the guy doing the
oil measurements was incorrect would be more reasonable).
So, tell me please why one would support this behaviour?
Don't. I am pretty sure no one has asked you to. Allowing others to
practice their religion is not supporting it.
But the "others" ARE supporting it.
He asked why ANYONE would support such a barbarous belief.
He asked why "one" would support it. That usually means "me". If he is
asking why X supports it he should ask X. At that point he might find
out (or be reminded of something he already knows) that his
presentation is just a bit distortive.
But as long as we are on the subject, what does "support" mean in this
context? I am not sure how one could, no less would, support an action
2000+ years in the past. If you mean celebrate there are a large
number of people who find freedom of conscience, of which freedom of
religion is a part, an important aspect of life. Such does, IMHO,
deserve recognition and celebration and major events supporting that
deserve celebration. If someone is interested in celebrating the
arrival of religious bigots to American who then whipped out the
indigenous people, and interested in celebrating the founding of a
supposed democracy that enslaved people by their skin color and
prevented half the population from any meaningful political
participation, then certainly a revolt for religious freedom, even if
it was the freedom to engage in religious activity, deserves
recognition.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
|
|
|
| User: "Denis Loubet" |
|
| Title: Re: Please explain Chanukah for me |
17 Dec 2006 03:09:49 PM |
|
|
"Matt Silberstein" <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
message news:3ltao2t0kiuq6kvp8cg8qm61n9545hav66@4ax.com...
On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 17:44:07 -0600, in alt.atheism , "Denis Loubet"
<dloubet@io.com> in <cqCdndLXwrtUGRnYnZ2dnUVZ_vWtnZ2d@io.com> wrote:
"Matt Silberstein" <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
message news:5jn8o2dhnppt11ih8iosqtqt1dgid4v646@4ax.com...
On 16 Dec 2006 09:13:25 -0800, in alt.atheism , "Haddon"
<GeneDeLisa@gmail.com> in
<1166289205.846700.309890@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:
I'm not getting the uplifting message here. From what I read there was
a group of people who invented a supernatural being who loved them
above anyone else. A few guys named Macabee led them to slaughter
greeks who did not believe in the same superstitions. As confirmation
that their status is special and that killing unbelievers is good, this
supernatural being rewarded them by making one day's worth of oil burn
for 8 days. (You'd think a rational explanation that the guy doing the
oil measurements was incorrect would be more reasonable).
So, tell me please why one would support this behaviour?
Don't. I am pretty sure no one has asked you to. Allowing others to
practice their religion is not supporting it.
But the "others" ARE supporting it.
He asked why ANYONE would support such a barbarous belief.
He asked why "one" would support it. That usually means "me".
No it doesn't, moron, it means anyone, including the "others". If he meant
himself he would have written "me".
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
http://www.ashenempires.com
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
