Religions > Atheism > Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"J Young" |
| Date: |
24 Oct 2005 09:38:04 PM |
| Object: |
Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights |
Lech Kaczynski was democratically chosen to lead the Polish nation. He ran
on a platform firmly embraced by the overwhelmingly Roman-Catholic majority.
This nonsense of "gay rights" is nothing more than a euphemism for "special
rights", which Poland has every right to reject. I personally oppose the
death penalty but that is an internal issue for the Polish people to decide.
What the EU is doing amounts to little more than extortion; Poland must
surrender there it's moral conscience or risk political and economical
isolation from it's neighbors.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/eu/story/0,7369,1599957,00.html
Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights
Tuesday October 25, 2005
Poland could lose its EU voting rights if its newly elected president
continues to oppose gay rights and seeks to introduce the death penalty, the
European Commission warned yesterday.
In a shot across the bows of arch-conservative Lech Kaczynski, the
commission declared that all member states must abide by EU rules which
protect minorities and block the death penalty.
European diplomats will be watching the negotiations carefully after the
success of the new president, who made his name as mayor of Warsaw. A
strongly conservative Catholic, he refused to allow gay pride marches and
supports the death penalty.
Friso Roscam Abbing, the European commission's justice spokesman, warned the
new president he must abide by article 6 of the Treaty of Nice, which says
that all member states must protect minority rights and not impose the death
penalty.
------------------------------------------------------
Great spirits have always encountered opposition from mediocre minds. The
mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow
blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his
opinions courageously and honestly.
Albert Einstein, quoted in New York Times, March 13, 1940
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| User: "No One" |
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| Title: Re: Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights |
24 Oct 2005 10:29:26 PM |
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"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> writes:
Lech Kaczynski was democratically chosen to lead the Polish nation.
So was Adolf Hitler (he and his party eliminated democracy once they
got control, but not before). I presume Mr. Kaczynski is a lot more
reasonable, but merely asserting that someone was "democratically
chosen" does not automatically make him a good guy.
What the EU is doing amounts to little more than extortion; Poland must
surrender there it's moral conscience or risk political and economical
isolation from it's neighbors.
Oh nonsense. Poland may lose its voting rights if it does not abide
by the Treaty of Nice, or other of the rights granted by the treaty.
This requires a 2/3 majority vote of the other countries. See
<http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/lex/en/treaties/dat/12001C/pdf/12001C_EN.pdf>
and scroll down to the part about Article 7. Poland will not risk a
boycott, invasion, or any right it would have as a country outside the
E.U.
And if Poland doesn't like the rules, nobody was forcing Poland to
join.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights |
24 Oct 2005 09:58:10 PM |
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"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote
This nonsense of "gay rights" is nothing more than a
euphemism for "special rights", which Poland has
every right to reject.
Great. So just take a moment and list for us some of those
"Special rights," why don't you.
Thanks in advance... for nothing. Seriously. Your silence
on the matter will reveal the truth to all but the most
bigoted.
Now, if you don't respond to THAT kind of challenge,
you might as well admit that you're a liar. You'd have
nothing to lose.
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| User: "Parsifal" |
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| Title: Re: Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights |
26 Oct 2005 06:44:30 AM |
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*This nonsense of "gay rights" is nothing more than a euphemism for
"special
*rights",
For nazi turds like you, yes, for normal people like me, no. "Gay
rights" -and BTW, I'm not gay- means the same rights for gays as for
non-gays. Among others the right to marry, which doesn't have the
slightest effect on the so-called" sanctity of mariage (unless you're a
bigoted Christian), the right to be respected and, most importantly,
the right to not be discriminated against because of a private matter.
J Young, you're the worse kind of nazi: the ones that wear ties and
speak well, but you're still a fucking nazi. May you die from a long
and painful disease...
*A strongly conservative Catholic, he refused to allow gay pride
marches and
*supports the death penalty.
He's a fucking fascist. But, hey what do you expect for the most
antisemitic country AND the most catholic country in Europe.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights |
25 Oct 2005 11:06:39 AM |
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In <97qdnUQzppxjB8DeRVn-sQ@giganews.com>, "J Young"
<youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:
Lech Kaczynski was democratically chosen to lead the Polish nation. He ran
on a platform firmly embraced by the overwhelmingly Roman-Catholic
majority. This nonsense of "gay rights" is nothing more than a euphemism
for "special rights", which Poland has every right to reject.
No they don't. They joined the EU voluntarily, nobody held a gun to their
heads.
If they don't like the rules, they should withdraw from the EU.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"We're angry, Mr. President, and we'll be angry long
after our beloved city and surrounding parishes have
been pumped dry. Our people deserved rescuing.
Many who could have been were not. That's to the
government's shame."
http://www.nola.com/
"FEMA email warned of disaster"
http://makeashorterlink.com/?C5332250C
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights |
25 Oct 2005 12:28:34 PM |
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On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:06:39 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In <97qdnUQzppxjB8DeRVn-sQ@giganews.com>, "J Young"
<youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:
Lech Kaczynski was democratically chosen to lead the Polish nation. He ran
on a platform firmly embraced by the overwhelmingly Roman-Catholic
majority. This nonsense of "gay rights" is nothing more than a euphemism
for "special rights", which Poland has every right to reject.
No they don't. They joined the EU voluntarily, nobody held a gun to their
heads.
If they don't like the rules, they should withdraw from the EU.
They are newbies in a 50-year old secular organisation of nations.
Meaning that irreligious and religious nations of different
denominations joined together in an economic trading organisation.
The long standing members don't like the newbie trying to turn it into
a religious organisation - that's not what they joined.
Poland has already done stupid things like trying to make the
Constitution of this secular group of nations "acknowledge its
Christian heritage" at the behest of the Vatican.
Which went down like a lead balloon with the Protestant and
non-Catholic countries.
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| User: "Dionisio" |
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| Title: Re: Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights |
25 Oct 2005 06:31:19 AM |
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J Young wrote:
Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights
When you join a club -- be it 4-H or the EU -- one is expected to abide
by the rules that govern the club. There methods to seek the changing of
those rules, but someone doesn't seem to want to use them...
Great spirits have always encountered opposition from mediocre minds. The
mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow
blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his
opinions courageously and honestly.
Albert Einstein, quoted in New York Times, March 13, 1940
Nice and ironic signature, Oh Advocate of Conventional Prejudices.
--
People need insults. Most people behave so abominably that they cry out for abuse. Charity moves us to meet this need. Abuse is a form of attention, and a little accommodating attention makes anyone feel human again. Now f*** off, oh clueless blatherskite!
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| User: "BYTE ME!" |
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| Title: Re: Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights |
24 Oct 2005 09:48:07 PM |
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J Young wrote:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/eu/story/0,7369,1599957,00.html
Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights
Welcome to the real world. If you refuse to play by the rules then you
can't play the game.
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| User: "Hugh Betcha" |
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| Title: Re: Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights |
24 Oct 2005 10:06:46 PM |
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BYTE ME! wrote:
J Young wrote:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/eu/story/0,7369,1599957,00.html
Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights
Welcome to the real world. If you refuse to play by the rules then you
can't play the game.
The EU was supposed to be an economic union. I wonder why they wish to
impose these matters on their member states... it weakens their
sovereignty and has nothing to do with economics. Could some power
hungry people be dreaming of a superstate? The rejection of the EU
'constitution' by the French and Dutch shows that the people do not
want this... but that didn't matter to Napolean and Hitler, either.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights |
24 Oct 2005 10:27:09 PM |
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"Hugh Betcha" <gemond@canada.com> wrote
Welcome to the real world. If you refuse to play by the rules then you
can't play the game.
The EU was supposed to be an economic union. I wonder why they
wish to impose these matters on their member states...
I wonder why Poland would want to join the EU under those rules.
It seems to me that you're saying that Poland wants nothing to do
with the EU.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights |
25 Oct 2005 11:06:55 AM |
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In <1130209606.490446.303390@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Hugh Betcha"
<gemond@canada.com> wrote:
The EU was supposed to be an economic union.
No it wasn't.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"We're angry, Mr. President, and we'll be angry long
after our beloved city and surrounding parishes have
been pumped dry. Our people deserved rescuing.
Many who could have been were not. That's to the
government's shame."
http://www.nola.com/
"FEMA email warned of disaster"
http://makeashorterlink.com/?C5332250C
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights |
25 Oct 2005 12:30:54 PM |
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On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:06:55 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In <1130209606.490446.303390@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Hugh Betcha"
<gemond@canada.com> wrote:
The EU was supposed to be an economic union.
No it wasn't.
Thats what it started off as fifty years ago. Known as the Common
Market. Which the original and subsequent members joined before it
changed its name o the European Union.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights |
25 Oct 2005 01:37:52 PM |
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In <lqqsl1ts9c2pr2hk2d0s8lnfo7fegk2d7o@4ax.com>, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:06:55 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In <1130209606.490446.303390@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Hugh Betcha"
<gemond@canada.com> wrote:
The EU was supposed to be an economic union.
No it wasn't.
Thats what it started off as fifty years ago. Known as the Common Market.
Which the original and subsequent members joined before it changed its
name o the European Union.
But that wasn't the EU. The EU came out of a treaty that was aimed at more
than just an economic union. Not to mention that the whole idea, at the
very beginning, was more than just an economic union. The dream of
unifying Europe politically to avoid the conflicts of the past has been
around a long time. The Common Market was, rather, a step toward political
union, not an end state.
Either way, what Poland joined (hell, begged and pleaded and clamored to
join) was already more than just an economic union. If they didn't want to
be part of it, why did they want to be part of it?
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"We're angry, Mr. President, and we'll be angry long
after our beloved city and surrounding parishes have
been pumped dry. Our people deserved rescuing.
Many who could have been were not. That's to the
government's shame."
http://www.nola.com/
"FEMA email warned of disaster"
http://makeashorterlink.com/?C5332250C
.
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| User: "michael james" |
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| Title: Re: Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights |
25 Oct 2005 04:28:18 PM |
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Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
In <lqqsl1ts9c2pr2hk2d0s8lnfo7fegk2d7o@4ax.com>, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:06:55 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In <1130209606.490446.303390@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Hugh Betcha"
<gemond@canada.com> wrote:
The EU was supposed to be an economic union.
No it wasn't.
Thats what it started off as fifty years ago. Known as the Common Market.
Which the original and subsequent members joined before it changed its
name o the European Union.
But that wasn't the EU. The EU came out of a treaty that was aimed at more
than just an economic union. Not to mention that the whole idea, at the
very beginning, was more than just an economic union. The dream of
unifying Europe politically to avoid the conflicts of the past has been
around a long time. The Common Market was, rather, a step toward political
union, not an end state.
Either way, what Poland joined (hell, begged and pleaded and clamored to
join) was already more than just an economic union. If they didn't want to
be part of it, why did they want to be part of it?
And to think that Turkey wants to be part of the EU. I wonder how the
gays are treated there.
They don't even like people who are not moslem. i.e. the way the state
treats the Orthodox Church.
.
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| User: "Boy Toy" |
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| Title: Re: Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights |
25 Oct 2005 05:21:51 PM |
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On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:28:18 -0400, michael james
<cadlib_@videotron.ca> wrote in message
<435EA372.5090406@videotron.ca>
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
In <lqqsl1ts9c2pr2hk2d0s8lnfo7fegk2d7o@4ax.com>, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:06:55 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In <1130209606.490446.303390@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Hugh Betcha"
<gemond@canada.com> wrote:
The EU was supposed to be an economic union.
No it wasn't.
Thats what it started off as fifty years ago. Known as the Common Market.
Which the original and subsequent members joined before it changed its
name o the European Union.
But that wasn't the EU. The EU came out of a treaty that was aimed at more
than just an economic union. Not to mention that the whole idea, at the
very beginning, was more than just an economic union. The dream of
unifying Europe politically to avoid the conflicts of the past has been
around a long time. The Common Market was, rather, a step toward political
union, not an end state.
Either way, what Poland joined (hell, begged and pleaded and clamored to
join) was already more than just an economic union. If they didn't want to
be part of it, why did they want to be part of it?
And to think that Turkey wants to be part of the EU. I wonder how the
gays are treated there.
They don't even like people who are not moslem. i.e. the way the state
treats the Orthodox Church.
That's a joke. I heard an interview with (the new supposedly improved
and rehabilitated) Moammar Khadafi of Libya. Even he said it was
absurd for the EU to consider admitting Turkey.
.
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights |
26 Oct 2005 06:15:39 AM |
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On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:21:51 GMT, Boy Toy <BoyToy@Toyz4Boyz.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:28:18 -0400, michael james
<cadlib_@videotron.ca> wrote in message
<435EA372.5090406@videotron.ca>
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
In <lqqsl1ts9c2pr2hk2d0s8lnfo7fegk2d7o@4ax.com>, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:06:55 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In <1130209606.490446.303390@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Hugh Betcha"
<gemond@canada.com> wrote:
The EU was supposed to be an economic union.
No it wasn't.
Thats what it started off as fifty years ago. Known as the Common Market.
Which the original and subsequent members joined before it changed its
name o the European Union.
But that wasn't the EU. The EU came out of a treaty that was aimed at more
than just an economic union. Not to mention that the whole idea, at the
very beginning, was more than just an economic union. The dream of
unifying Europe politically to avoid the conflicts of the past has been
around a long time. The Common Market was, rather, a step toward political
union, not an end state.
Either way, what Poland joined (hell, begged and pleaded and clamored to
join) was already more than just an economic union. If they didn't want to
be part of it, why did they want to be part of it?
And to think that Turkey wants to be part of the EU. I wonder how the
gays are treated there.
They don't even like people who are not moslem. i.e. the way the state
treats the Orthodox Church.
That's a joke. I heard an interview with (the new supposedly improved
and rehabilitated) Moammar Khadafi of Libya. Even he said it was
absurd for the EU to consider admitting Turkey.
I certainly hesitate to contradict such a reliable source, but, in
fact, both Turkey and EU are very anxious to have Turkey in EU. I
personally am not a very big fan of EU as it is set up, but there are
extremely good economic and political reasons for Turkish membership.
Thomas P.
"Life must be lived forwards but understood backwards"
(Kierkegaard)
.
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| User: "Boy Toy" |
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| Title: Re: Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights |
26 Oct 2005 11:36:04 AM |
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On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:15:39 +0200, thomas p
<tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
<c5oul1lj9j1ec41rabtk1v5mkum592m642@4ax.com>
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:21:51 GMT, Boy Toy <BoyToy@Toyz4Boyz.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:28:18 -0400, michael james
<cadlib_@videotron.ca> wrote in message
<435EA372.5090406@videotron.ca>
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
In <lqqsl1ts9c2pr2hk2d0s8lnfo7fegk2d7o@4ax.com>, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:06:55 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In <1130209606.490446.303390@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Hugh Betcha"
<gemond@canada.com> wrote:
The EU was supposed to be an economic union.
No it wasn't.
Thats what it started off as fifty years ago. Known as the Common Market.
Which the original and subsequent members joined before it changed its
name o the European Union.
But that wasn't the EU. The EU came out of a treaty that was aimed at more
than just an economic union. Not to mention that the whole idea, at the
very beginning, was more than just an economic union. The dream of
unifying Europe politically to avoid the conflicts of the past has been
around a long time. The Common Market was, rather, a step toward political
union, not an end state.
Either way, what Poland joined (hell, begged and pleaded and clamored to
join) was already more than just an economic union. If they didn't want to
be part of it, why did they want to be part of it?
And to think that Turkey wants to be part of the EU. I wonder how the
gays are treated there.
They don't even like people who are not moslem. i.e. the way the state
treats the Orthodox Church.
That's a joke. I heard an interview with (the new supposedly improved
and rehabilitated) Moammar Khadafi of Libya. Even he said it was
absurd for the EU to consider admitting Turkey.
I certainly hesitate to contradict such a reliable source, but, in
fact, both Turkey and EU are very anxious to have Turkey in EU. I
personally am not a very big fan of EU as it is set up, but there are
extremely good economic and political reasons for Turkish membership.
I was under the impression that the EU was very divided on the issue
and that some countries were adamantly opposed to it. I think France
& Austria, but don't remember the others. Some of the states require
referenda before they can act, and so far "According to opinion polls,
not one EU country has a majority of people in favour of Turkey's
attempts to enter the bloc.".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4299626.stm
"Turkey needs to make huge efforts to meet the stringent requirements
for EU membership, including absorbing the 80,000-page EU rule book
into its domestic law." Negotiations are expected to take 10 years if
approved.
.
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights |
27 Oct 2005 01:40:29 AM |
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On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 16:36:04 GMT, Boy Toy <BoyToy@Toyz4Boyz.com>
wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:15:39 +0200, thomas p
<tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
<c5oul1lj9j1ec41rabtk1v5mkum592m642@4ax.com>
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:21:51 GMT, Boy Toy <BoyToy@Toyz4Boyz.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:28:18 -0400, michael james
<cadlib_@videotron.ca> wrote in message
<435EA372.5090406@videotron.ca>
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
In <lqqsl1ts9c2pr2hk2d0s8lnfo7fegk2d7o@4ax.com>, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:06:55 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In <1130209606.490446.303390@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Hugh Betcha"
<gemond@canada.com> wrote:
The EU was supposed to be an economic union.
No it wasn't.
Thats what it started off as fifty years ago. Known as the Common Market.
Which the original and subsequent members joined before it changed its
name o the European Union.
But that wasn't the EU. The EU came out of a treaty that was aimed at more
than just an economic union. Not to mention that the whole idea, at the
very beginning, was more than just an economic union. The dream of
unifying Europe politically to avoid the conflicts of the past has been
around a long time. The Common Market was, rather, a step toward political
union, not an end state.
Either way, what Poland joined (hell, begged and pleaded and clamored to
join) was already more than just an economic union. If they didn't want to
be part of it, why did they want to be part of it?
And to think that Turkey wants to be part of the EU. I wonder how the
gays are treated there.
They don't even like people who are not moslem. i.e. the way the state
treats the Orthodox Church.
That's a joke. I heard an interview with (the new supposedly improved
and rehabilitated) Moammar Khadafi of Libya. Even he said it was
absurd for the EU to consider admitting Turkey.
I certainly hesitate to contradict such a reliable source, but, in
fact, both Turkey and EU are very anxious to have Turkey in EU. I
personally am not a very big fan of EU as it is set up, but there are
extremely good economic and political reasons for Turkish membership.
I was under the impression that the EU was very divided on the issue
and that some countries were adamantly opposed to it. I think France
& Austria, but don't remember the others. Some of the states require
referenda before they can act, and so far "According to opinion polls,
not one EU country has a majority of people in favour of Turkey's
attempts to enter the bloc.".
That is probably true. There is also good reason to believe that the
majority of Europeans is very doubtful of EU in general, as am I. On
the other hand EU, in negotiations with Turkey, has held out the
possibility of membership if specific requirements are fulfilled. EU
(not necessarily all the citizens in EU, many of whom don't want EU at
all) wants Turkey as a member.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4299626.stm
"Turkey needs to make huge efforts to meet the stringent requirements
for EU membership, including absorbing the 80,000-page EU rule book
into its domestic law." Negotiations are expected to take 10 years if
approved.
Yes, it will be difficult, if it happens at all. On the other hand it
will be a fantastic bit of progress if Turkey does fulfill the
requirements.
Thomas P.
"Life must be lived forwards but understood backwards"
(Kierkegaard)
.
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| User: "michael james" |
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| Title: Re: Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights |
26 Oct 2005 06:58:41 AM |
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thomas p wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:21:51 GMT, Boy Toy <BoyToy@Toyz4Boyz.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:28:18 -0400, michael james
<cadlib_@videotron.ca> wrote in message
<435EA372.5090406@videotron.ca>
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
In <lqqsl1ts9c2pr2hk2d0s8lnfo7fegk2d7o@4ax.com>, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:06:55 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In <1130209606.490446.303390@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Hugh Betcha"
<gemond@canada.com> wrote:
The EU was supposed to be an economic union.
No it wasn't.
Thats what it started off as fifty years ago. Known as the Common Market.
Which the original and subsequent members joined before it changed its
name o the European Union.
But that wasn't the EU. The EU came out of a treaty that was aimed at more
than just an economic union. Not to mention that the whole idea, at the
very beginning, was more than just an economic union. The dream of
unifying Europe politically to avoid the conflicts of the past has been
around a long time. The Common Market was, rather, a step toward political
union, not an end state.
Either way, what Poland joined (hell, begged and pleaded and clamored to
join) was already more than just an economic union. If they didn't want to
be part of it, why did they want to be part of it?
And to think that Turkey wants to be part of the EU. I wonder how the
gays are treated there.
They don't even like people who are not moslem. i.e. the way the state
treats the Orthodox Church.
That's a joke. I heard an interview with (the new supposedly improved
and rehabilitated) Moammar Khadafi of Libya. Even he said it was
absurd for the EU to consider admitting Turkey.
I certainly hesitate to contradict such a reliable source, but, in
fact, both Turkey and EU are very anxious to have Turkey in EU. I
personally am not a very big fan of EU as it is set up, but there are
extremely good economic and political reasons for Turkish membership.
maybe you could tell us what they are.
Thomas P.
"Life must be lived forwards but understood backwards"
(Kierkegaard)
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights |
26 Oct 2005 01:20:36 PM |
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On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 07:58:41 -0400, michael james
<cadlib_@videotron.ca> wrote:
thomas p wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:21:51 GMT, Boy Toy <BoyToy@Toyz4Boyz.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:28:18 -0400, michael james
<cadlib_@videotron.ca> wrote in message
<435EA372.5090406@videotron.ca>
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
In <lqqsl1ts9c2pr2hk2d0s8lnfo7fegk2d7o@4ax.com>, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:06:55 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In <1130209606.490446.303390@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Hugh Betcha"
<gemond@canada.com> wrote:
The EU was supposed to be an economic union.
No it wasn't.
Thats what it started off as fifty years ago. Known as the Common Market.
Which the original and subsequent members joined before it changed its
name o the European Union.
But that wasn't the EU. The EU came out of a treaty that was aimed at more
than just an economic union. Not to mention that the whole idea, at the
very beginning, was more than just an economic union. The dream of
unifying Europe politically to avoid the conflicts of the past has been
around a long time. The Common Market was, rather, a step toward political
union, not an end state.
Either way, what Poland joined (hell, begged and pleaded and clamored to
join) was already more than just an economic union. If they didn't want to
be part of it, why did they want to be part of it?
And to think that Turkey wants to be part of the EU. I wonder how the
gays are treated there.
They don't even like people who are not moslem. i.e. the way the state
treats the Orthodox Church.
That's a joke. I heard an interview with (the new supposedly improved
and rehabilitated) Moammar Khadafi of Libya. Even he said it was
absurd for the EU to consider admitting Turkey.
I certainly hesitate to contradict such a reliable source, but, in
fact, both Turkey and EU are very anxious to have Turkey in EU. I
personally am not a very big fan of EU as it is set up, but there are
extremely good economic and political reasons for Turkish membership.
maybe you could tell us what they are.
I would be glad to mention a few. The Balkans have been a trouble
spot for a very long time. Just as in the example of a former part of
Yugoslavia becoming a member, Turkish membership would be a major
contribution to stability in that region. Furthermore Turkish
membership would isolate radical Moslem elements in Turkey (just as
rejection of membership would dangerously strengthen them).
It would also provide EU with very valuable economic connections to
the entire Moslem world, and it would strengthen both democracy and
human rights.
The above is an extremely short and incomplete review of the
advantages. I do not think anybody, even those who support
membership, thinks it is a sure thing or that it will be easy, but, if
the Turks are able and willing to live up to the conditions (human
rights, economic etc.), it will be of major benefit to Europe, to
Turkey and to the world.
Thomas P.
"Life must be lived forwards but understood backwards"
(Kierkegaard)
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| User: "Jos Flachs - skip the aa" |
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| Title: Re: Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights |
28 Oct 2005 07:35:42 PM |
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On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:28:18 -0400, michael james
<cadlib_@videotron.ca> wrote:
Either way, what Poland joined (hell, begged and pleaded and clamored to
join) was already more than just an economic union. If they didn't want to
be part of it, why did they want to be part of it?
And to think that Turkey wants to be part of the EU. I wonder how the
gays are treated there.
They don't even like people who are not moslem. i.e. the way the state
treats the Orthodox Church.
NOT having Turkey as a EU member played a serious part in the Dutch
'no' vote
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| User: "Jos Flachs - skip the aa" |
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| Title: Re: Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights |
28 Oct 2005 07:35:42 PM |
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On 24 Oct 2005 20:06:46 -0700, "Hugh Betcha" <gemond@canada.com>
wrote:
The EU was supposed to be an economic union.
Entirely wrong. That was the EEC.
I wonder why they wish to
impose these matters on their member states... it weakens their
sovereignty and has nothing to do with economics.
For the same reason Washington DC does.
Could some power hungry people be dreaming of a superstate?
The bueaucrats in Brussel? Are you kidding?
The rejection of the EU
'constitution' by the French and Dutch shows that the people do not
want this... but that didn't matter to Napolean and Hitler, either.
Nor did it to baby bush.
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| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
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| Title: Re: Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights |
25 Oct 2005 04:38:59 PM |
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On 24 Oct 2005 20:06:46 -0700, "Hugh Betcha" <gemond@canada.com> wrote:
The EU was supposed to be an economic union. I wonder why they wish to
impose these matters on their member states...
It is like any other club. If you want the benefits of membership, you accept
the rules.
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| User: "Paul Duca" |
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| Title: Re: Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights |
25 Oct 2005 02:41:28 AM |
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in article 1130209606.490446.303390@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, Hugh
Betcha at wrote on 10/24/05 11:06 PM:
BYTE ME! wrote:
J Young wrote:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/eu/story/0,7369,1599957,00.html
Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights
Welcome to the real world. If you refuse to play by the rules then you
can't play the game.
The EU was supposed to be an economic union. I wonder why they wish to
impose these matters on their member states... it weakens their
sovereignty and has nothing to do with economics. Could some power
hungry people be dreaming of a superstate? The rejection of the EU
'constitution' by the French and Dutch shows that the people do not
want this... but that didn't matter to Napolean and Hitler, either.
Hugh, are you worried that holding on to your job depends on a weak
and divided Europe?
Paul
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights |
26 Oct 2005 04:51:43 PM |
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On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 02:48:07 GMT, "BYTE ME!" <donotreply@nowhere.com>
wrote:
J Young wrote:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/eu/story/0,7369,1599957,00.html
Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights
Welcome to the real world. If you refuse to play by the rules then you
can't play the game.
What's silly, is that they are the newbies. And this isn't the first
time they have tried this kind of stunt.
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| User: "Andrealphus" |
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| Title: Re: Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights |
26 Oct 2005 04:55:34 PM |
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In News chuvl1928beqtfch4oj14u8r25q1986eds@4ax.com,, Christopher A. Lee at
calee@optonline.net, typed this:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 02:48:07 GMT, "BYTE ME!" <donotreply@nowhere.com>
wrote:
J Young wrote:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/eu/story/0,7369,1599957,00.html
Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights
Welcome to the real world. If you refuse to play by the rules then
you can't play the game.
What's silly, is that they are the newbies. And this isn't the first
time they have tried this kind of stunt.
Poland signed on to the EU, the rules for admission were clear, they agreed
to them. What isn't clear about that?
--
Question with boldness even the existence of god; because if there be
one, he must more approve the homage of reason than that of blindfolded
fear. - Thomas Jefferson
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights |
25 Oct 2005 03:46:34 AM |
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On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:38:04 -0400, "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com>
wrote:
Lech Kaczynski was democratically chosen to lead the Polish nation. He ran
on a platform firmly embraced by the overwhelmingly Roman-Catholic majority.
This nonsense of "gay rights" is nothing more than a euphemism for "special
rights",
No, the rights being guaranteed are the same ones everybody else has -
or do you have any information that says otherwise? No? I thought
not.
which Poland has every right to reject. I personally oppose the
death penalty but that is an internal issue for the Polish people to decide.
What the EU is doing amounts to little more than extortion; Poland must
surrender there it's moral conscience or risk political and economical
isolation from it's neighbors.
In other words, if it does not follow the rules of the organisation it
voluntarily joined, it will not enjoy all the privileges connected
with membership. How exactly is that wrong?
snip
Thomas P.
"Life must be lived forwards but understood backwards"
(Kierkegaard)
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| User: "MarkA" |
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| Title: Re: Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights |
25 Oct 2005 06:38:33 AM |
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On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:38:04 -0400, J Young wrote:
Lech Kaczynski was democratically chosen to lead the Polish nation. He ran
on a platform firmly embraced by the overwhelmingly Roman-Catholic
majority. This nonsense of "gay rights" is nothing more than a euphemism
for "special rights", which Poland has every right to reject. I personally
oppose the death penalty but that is an internal issue for the Polish
people to decide. What the EU is doing amounts to little more than
extortion; Poland must surrender there it's moral conscience or risk
political and economical isolation from it's neighbors.
The EU can establish whatever membership requirements it likes.
Personally, I don't see that barring discrimination against minorities and
banning the death penalty are all that extreme. But then, I'm an atheist.
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
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| User: "Andrealphus" |
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| Title: Re: Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights |
25 Oct 2005 06:44:29 AM |
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In News pan.2005.10.25.11.38.24.67625@stopspam.net,, MarkA at
manthony@stopspam.net, typed this:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:38:04 -0400, J Young wrote:
Lech Kaczynski was democratically chosen to lead the Polish nation.
He ran on a platform firmly embraced by the overwhelmingly
Roman-Catholic majority. This nonsense of "gay rights" is nothing
more than a euphemism for "special rights", which Poland has every
right to reject. I personally oppose the death penalty but that is
an internal issue for the Polish people to decide. What the EU is
doing amounts to little more than extortion; Poland must surrender
there it's moral conscience or risk political and economical
isolation from it's neighbors.
The EU can establish whatever membership requirements it likes.
Personally, I don't see that barring discrimination against
minorities and banning the death penalty are all that extreme. But
then, I'm an atheist.
Young is an idiot. The rules that the EU established as proper for it's
member states was voluntarilly entered into by Poland. If Poland wishes to
break from that agreement, then the EU may exact whatever penalties that the
agreement establishes. Otherwise, Poland may withdraw from the EU.
--
Question with boldness even the existence of god; because if there be
one, he must more approve the homage of reason than that of blindfolded
fear. - Thomas Jefferson
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| User: "Paul Duca" |
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| Title: Re: Polish leader's anti-gay stance threatens EU voting rights |
25 Oct 2005 02:39:48 AM |
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in article 97qdnUQzppxjB8DeRVn-sQ@giganews.com, J Young at
youngopinions@aol.com wrote on 10/24/05 10:38 PM:
Lech Kaczynski was democratically chosen to lead the Polish nation. He ran
on a platform firmly embraced by the overwhelmingly Roman-Catholic majority.
This nonsense of "gay rights" is nothing more than a euphemism for "special
rights", which Poland has every right to reject.
And Catholic God has every right not to lavish Poland with rewards
in return...
Paul
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