Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "nightops"
Date: 19 Feb 2006 07:31:09 AM
Object: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK
Yes, Muslims just want to fit in...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/19/nsharia19.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/02/19/ixportaltop.html
Poll reveals 40pc of Muslims want sharia law in UK
By Patrick Hennessy and Melissa Kite
(Filed: 19/02/2006)
Four out of 10 British Muslims want sharia law introduced into parts
of the country, a survey reveals today.
The ICM opinion poll also indicates that a fifth have sympathy with
the "feelings and motives" of the suicide bombers who attacked London
last July 7, killing 52 people, although 99 per cent thought the
bombers were wrong to carry out the atrocity.
50pc said interracial relations were worsening
Overall, the findings depict a Muslim community becoming more radical
and feeling more alienated from mainstream society, even though 91 per
cent still say they feel loyal to Britain.
The results of the poll, conducted for the Sunday Telegraph, came as
thousands of Muslims staged a fresh protest in London yesterday
against the publication of cartoons of Mohammed. In Libya, at least 10
people died in protests linked to the caricatures.
And in Pakistan, a cleric was reported to have put a $1 million
(£575,000) bounty on the head of the Danish cartoonist who drew the
original pictures.
Last night, Sadiq Khan, the Labour MP involved with the official task
force set up after the July attacks, said the findings were
"alarming". He added: "Vast numbers of Muslims feel disengaged and
alienated from mainstream British society." Sir Iqbal Sacranie, the
secretary general of the Muslim Council of Britain, said: "This poll
confirms the widespread opposition among British Muslims to the
so-called war on terror."
The most startling finding is the high level of support for applying
sharia law in "predom-inantly Muslim" areas of Britain.

Sadiq Khan: 'Alarming'
Islamic law is used in large parts of the Middle East, including Iran
and Saudi Arabia, and is enforced by religious police. Special courts
can hand down harsh punishments which can include stoning and
amputation.
Forty per cent of the British Muslims surveyed said they backed
introducing sharia in parts of Britain, while 41 per cent opposed it.
Twenty per cent felt sympathy with the July 7 bombers' motives, and 75
per cent did not. One per cent felt the attacks were "right".
Nearly two thirds thought the video images shown last week of British
troops beating Iraqi youths were symptomatic of a wider problem in
Iraq. Half did not think the soldiers would be "appropriately
punished".
Half of the 500 people surveyed said relations between white Britons
and Muslims were getting worse. Only just over half thought the
conviction of the cleric Abu Hamza for incitement to murder and race
hatred was fair.
Mr Khan, the MP for Tooting, said: "We must redouble our efforts to
bring Muslims on board with the mainstream community. For all the
efforts made since last July, things do not have appear to have got
better."
He agreed with Sir Iqbal that the poll showed Muslims still had a "big
gripe" about foreign policy, particularly over the war on terror and
Iraq.
David Davis, the shadow home secretary, said: "It shows we have a long
way to go to win the battle of ideas within some parts of the Muslim
community and why it is absolutely vital that we reinforce the voice
of moderate Islam wherever possible."
A spokesman for Charles Clarke, the Home Secretary, said: "It is
critically important to ensure that Muslims, and all faiths, feel part
of modern British society. Today's survey indicates we still have a
long way to go… [but] we are committed to working with all faiths to
ensure we achieve that end."
.

User: "Scuzza"

Title: Re: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK 19 Feb 2006 07:46:07 AM
"nightops" <frankbooth_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cdsgv1ds952bme2t3bgcbrgagsn6khg5vp@4ax.com...
....

David Davis, the shadow home secretary, said: "It shows we have a
long
way to go to win the battle of ideas within some parts of the Muslim
community and why it is absolutely vital that we reinforce the voice
of moderate Islam wherever possible."

There's no such thing as moderate Islam.

A spokesman for Charles Clarke, the Home Secretary, said: "It is
critically important to ensure that Muslims, and all faiths, feel
part
of modern British society. Today's survey indicates we still have a
long way to go. [but] we are committed to working with all faiths to
ensure we achieve that end."

But they are committed to ensuring that you become a part of their
society.
Who's winning, given that that you've just admitted you're losing?
.

User: "turk"

Title: Re: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK 19 Feb 2006 09:21:21 AM
"nightops" <frankbooth_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cdsgv1ds952bme2t3bgcbrgagsn6khg5vp@4ax.com...


Yes, Muslims just want to fit in...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/19/nsharia19.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/02/19/ixportaltop.html

Poll reveals 40pc of Muslims want sharia law in UK
By Patrick Hennessy and Melissa Kite
(Filed: 19/02/2006)

Four out of 10 British Muslims want sharia law introduced into parts
of the country, a survey reveals today.

The ICM opinion poll also indicates that a fifth have sympathy with
the "feelings and motives" of the suicide bombers who attacked London
last July 7, killing 52 people, although 99 per cent thought the
bombers were wrong to carry out the atrocity.

This is a religion based on the simple fact that Muslims must, and
eventually will, rule the earth and kill the non-believers. The Koran
states so explicitly. There is no room for moderation. Polls in the Middle
East show that the majority of people feel that suicide bombers are
justified and civil liberties are to be oppressed. That's part of the
problem with the American policy of bringing democracy to the Middle East.
Give these people the option to vote and they will vote against their own
rights in droves. They'd sooner be subject to beatings over forgetting to
pray than see a woman expose an ankle.
Faith kills. That's basically what this is. This is Muslims following
their Koran. If the Christians start following their Bible to the letter,
then they will be just as bad, if not worse.
turk
--
My last vestige of "hands off religion" respect disappeared in the smoke and
choking dust of September 11th 2001, followed by the "National Day of
Prayer," when prelates and pastors did their tremulous Martin Luther King
impersonations and urged people of mutually incompatible faiths to hold
hands, united in homage to the very force that caused the problem in the
first place.
-- Richard Dawkins, The Devil's Chaplain (2004)
.
User: "Scuzza"

Title: Re: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK 20 Feb 2006 02:44:52 AM
<turk> wrote in message
news:XZ6dnX64i-dhEWXenZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@comcast.com...

"nightops" <frankbooth_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cdsgv1ds952bme2t3bgcbrgagsn6khg5vp@4ax.com...


Yes, Muslims just want to fit in...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/19/nsharia19.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/02/19/ixportaltop.html

Poll reveals 40pc of Muslims want sharia law in UK
By Patrick Hennessy and Melissa Kite
(Filed: 19/02/2006)

snip

Faith kills. That's basically what this is. This is Muslims
following their Koran. If the Christians start following their Bible
to the letter, then they will be just as bad, if not worse.

Yeah, that "love your enemy, do good to those who curse you, bless
those who persecute you" stuff is pure evil, isn't it?
Anyone who tries to live that creed is damn dangerous.
That must be why those liberal Romans crucified the last one, huh?
.
User: "TyBreaker"

Title: Re: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK 20 Feb 2006 02:51:45 AM
Scuzza wrote:

That must be why those liberal Romans crucified the last one, huh?

Actually He was the first one :)
--
______ ___ __
/_ __/_ __/ _ )_______ ___ _/ /_____ ____
/ / / // / _ / __/ -_) _ `/ '_/ -_) __/
/_/ \_, /____/_/ \__/\_,_/_/\_\\__/_/
/___/
There are 10 types of people in this world; those who understand the
binary numbering system and those who don't.
.
User: "Scuzza"

Title: Re: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK 20 Feb 2006 03:08:19 AM
"TyBreaker" <tybreakerNO@SPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:43f982b0$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...

Scuzza wrote:

That must be why those liberal Romans crucified the last one, huh?


Actually He was the first one :)

I stand corrected.
.
User: "TyBreaker"

Title: Re: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK 20 Feb 2006 03:11:31 AM
Scuzza wrote:

"TyBreaker" <tybreakerNO@SPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:43f982b0$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...

Scuzza wrote:

That must be why those liberal Romans crucified the last one, huh?

Actually He was the first one :)



I stand corrected.

Please be seated.
--
______ ___ __
/_ __/_ __/ _ )_______ ___ _/ /_____ ____
/ / / // / _ / __/ -_) _ `/ '_/ -_) __/
/_/ \_, /____/_/ \__/\_,_/_/\_\\__/_/
/___/
There are 10 types of people in this world; those who understand the
binary numbering system and those who don't.
.




User: "Energumen"

Title: Re: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK 19 Feb 2006 09:49:51 AM
turk wrote:

"nightops" <frankbooth_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cdsgv1ds952bme2t3bgcbrgagsn6khg5vp@4ax.com...


Yes, Muslims just want to fit in...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/19/nsharia19.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/02/19/ixportaltop.html

Poll reveals 40pc of Muslims want sharia law in UK
By Patrick Hennessy and Melissa Kite
(Filed: 19/02/2006)

Four out of 10 British Muslims want sharia law introduced into parts
of the country, a survey reveals today.

The ICM opinion poll also indicates that a fifth have sympathy with
the "feelings and motives" of the suicide bombers who attacked London
last July 7, killing 52 people, although 99 per cent thought the
bombers were wrong to carry out the atrocity.


This is a religion based on the simple fact that Muslims must, and
eventually will, rule the earth and kill the non-believers. The Koran
states so explicitly. There is no room for moderation. Polls in the Middle
East show that the majority of people feel that suicide bombers are
justified and civil liberties are to be oppressed. That's part of the
problem with the American policy of bringing democracy to the Middle East.
Give these people the option to vote and they will vote against their own
rights in droves. They'd sooner be subject to beatings over forgetting to
pray than see a woman expose an ankle.

Faith kills. That's basically what this is. This is Muslims following
their Koran. If the Christians start following their Bible to the letter,
then they will be just as bad, if not worse.

You were doing all right until the last sentence, which is complete
hogwash. And no I am not a Christian. I wonder why people feel the need
to assert that Christianity is as bad as Islam all the time. It just
isn't. Deal with it. Get over it.
.
User: "kathryn"

Title: Re: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK 19 Feb 2006 12:30:54 PM
"Energumen" <energoumenos@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:1140364191.232856.39140@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


turk wrote:

"nightops" <frankbooth_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cdsgv1ds952bme2t3bgcbrgagsn6khg5vp@4ax.com...


Yes, Muslims just want to fit in...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/19/nsharia19.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/02/19/ixportaltop.html

Poll reveals 40pc of Muslims want sharia law in UK
By Patrick Hennessy and Melissa Kite
(Filed: 19/02/2006)

Four out of 10 British Muslims want sharia law introduced into parts
of the country, a survey reveals today.

The ICM opinion poll also indicates that a fifth have sympathy with
the "feelings and motives" of the suicide bombers who attacked London
last July 7, killing 52 people, although 99 per cent thought the
bombers were wrong to carry out the atrocity.


This is a religion based on the simple fact that Muslims must, and
eventually will, rule the earth and kill the non-believers. The Koran
states so explicitly. There is no room for moderation. Polls in the
Middle
East show that the majority of people feel that suicide bombers are
justified and civil liberties are to be oppressed. That's part of the
problem with the American policy of bringing democracy to the Middle
East.
Give these people the option to vote and they will vote against their own
rights in droves. They'd sooner be subject to beatings over forgetting
to
pray than see a woman expose an ankle.

Faith kills. That's basically what this is. This is Muslims following
their Koran. If the Christians start following their Bible to the
letter,
then they will be just as bad, if not worse.


You were doing all right until the last sentence, which is complete
hogwash. And no I am not a Christian. I wonder why people feel the need
to assert that Christianity is as bad as Islam all the time. It just
isn't. Deal with it. Get over it.

whinewhinewhinewhinewhinewhine
.
User: "Stan de SD"

Title: Re: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK 19 Feb 2006 02:30:04 PM
"kathryn" <nospam@here.com> wrote in message
news:dtadgu$pf5$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...


"Energumen" <energoumenos@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:1140364191.232856.39140@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


turk wrote:

"nightops" <frankbooth_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cdsgv1ds952bme2t3bgcbrgagsn6khg5vp@4ax.com...


Yes, Muslims just want to fit in...


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/19/nsharia19.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/02/19/ixportaltop.html


Poll reveals 40pc of Muslims want sharia law in UK
By Patrick Hennessy and Melissa Kite
(Filed: 19/02/2006)

Four out of 10 British Muslims want sharia law introduced into parts
of the country, a survey reveals today.

The ICM opinion poll also indicates that a fifth have sympathy with
the "feelings and motives" of the suicide bombers who attacked London
last July 7, killing 52 people, although 99 per cent thought the
bombers were wrong to carry out the atrocity.


This is a religion based on the simple fact that Muslims must, and
eventually will, rule the earth and kill the non-believers. The Koran
states so explicitly. There is no room for moderation. Polls in the
Middle
East show that the majority of people feel that suicide bombers are
justified and civil liberties are to be oppressed. That's part of the
problem with the American policy of bringing democracy to the Middle
East.
Give these people the option to vote and they will vote against their

own

rights in droves. They'd sooner be subject to beatings over forgetting
to
pray than see a woman expose an ankle.

Faith kills. That's basically what this is. This is Muslims following
their Koran. If the Christians start following their Bible to the
letter,
then they will be just as bad, if not worse.


You were doing all right until the last sentence, which is complete
hogwash. And no I am not a Christian. I wonder why people feel the need
to assert that Christianity is as bad as Islam all the time. It just
isn't. Deal with it. Get over it.


whinewhinewhinewhinewhinewhine

He brought up a valid point. Can you try to respond intelligently, or is
that expecting too much out of you?
.


User: "turk"

Title: Re: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK 19 Feb 2006 12:34:22 PM
"Energumen" <energoumenos@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:1140364191.232856.39140@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


turk wrote:

"nightops" <frankbooth_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cdsgv1ds952bme2t3bgcbrgagsn6khg5vp@4ax.com...


Yes, Muslims just want to fit in...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/19/nsharia19.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/02/19/ixportaltop.html

Poll reveals 40pc of Muslims want sharia law in UK
By Patrick Hennessy and Melissa Kite
(Filed: 19/02/2006)

Four out of 10 British Muslims want sharia law introduced into parts
of the country, a survey reveals today.

The ICM opinion poll also indicates that a fifth have sympathy with
the "feelings and motives" of the suicide bombers who attacked London
last July 7, killing 52 people, although 99 per cent thought the
bombers were wrong to carry out the atrocity.


This is a religion based on the simple fact that Muslims must, and
eventually will, rule the earth and kill the non-believers. The Koran
states so explicitly. There is no room for moderation. Polls in the
Middle
East show that the majority of people feel that suicide bombers are
justified and civil liberties are to be oppressed. That's part of the
problem with the American policy of bringing democracy to the Middle
East.
Give these people the option to vote and they will vote against their own
rights in droves. They'd sooner be subject to beatings over forgetting
to
pray than see a woman expose an ankle.

Faith kills. That's basically what this is. This is Muslims following
their Koran. If the Christians start following their Bible to the
letter,
then they will be just as bad, if not worse.


You were doing all right until the last sentence, which is complete
hogwash. And no I am not a Christian. I wonder why people feel the need
to assert that Christianity is as bad as Islam all the time. It just
isn't. Deal with it. Get over it.

Christianity is not as bad because it has been tempered by secularism. Read
the Bible. It's full of genocidal commandments. It's full of atrocities
that would make the average person wince. That's why I qualified it as "if
the Christians start following their Bible". Know your source material,
dumbass. I can quote a lot of it if you're too stupid or don't have a
qualified adult nearby to look it up.
turk
--
My last vestige of "hands off religion" respect disappeared in the smoke and
choking dust of September 11th 2001, followed by the "National Day of
Prayer," when prelates and pastors did their tremulous Martin Luther King
impersonations and urged people of mutually incompatible faiths to hold
hands, united in homage to the very force that caused the problem in the
first place.
-- Richard Dawkins, The Devil's Chaplain (2004)
.
User: "Energumen"

Title: Re: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK 19 Feb 2006 12:46:34 PM
<turk> wrote:

"Energumen" <energoumenos@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:1140364191.232856.39140@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


turk wrote:

"nightops" <frankbooth_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cdsgv1ds952bme2t3bgcbrgagsn6khg5vp@4ax.com...


Yes, Muslims just want to fit in...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/19/nsharia19.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/02/19/ixportaltop.html

Poll reveals 40pc of Muslims want sharia law in UK
By Patrick Hennessy and Melissa Kite
(Filed: 19/02/2006)

Four out of 10 British Muslims want sharia law introduced into parts
of the country, a survey reveals today.

The ICM opinion poll also indicates that a fifth have sympathy with
the "feelings and motives" of the suicide bombers who attacked London
last July 7, killing 52 people, although 99 per cent thought the
bombers were wrong to carry out the atrocity.


This is a religion based on the simple fact that Muslims must, and
eventually will, rule the earth and kill the non-believers. The Koran
states so explicitly. There is no room for moderation. Polls in the
Middle
East show that the majority of people feel that suicide bombers are
justified and civil liberties are to be oppressed. That's part of the
problem with the American policy of bringing democracy to the Middle
East.
Give these people the option to vote and they will vote against their own
rights in droves. They'd sooner be subject to beatings over forgetting
to
pray than see a woman expose an ankle.

Faith kills. That's basically what this is. This is Muslims following
their Koran. If the Christians start following their Bible to the
letter,
then they will be just as bad, if not worse.


You were doing all right until the last sentence, which is complete
hogwash. And no I am not a Christian. I wonder why people feel the need
to assert that Christianity is as bad as Islam all the time. It just
isn't. Deal with it. Get over it.


Christianity is not as bad because it has been tempered by secularism. Read
the Bible. It's full of genocidal commandments. It's full of atrocities
that would make the average person wince. That's why I qualified it as "if
the Christians start following their Bible". Know your source material,
dumbass. I can quote a lot of it if you're too stupid or don't have a
qualified adult nearby to look it up.

You obviously haven't done so, so please do and then come back to us.
Jesus and Mohammed are very different characters. The Old Testament
stuff is subject to the New Covenant in Christianity and that has
always been the case from day one. Christianity was not tamed by
secularism, it was secular (in the give unto Caesar sense) in the first
place, notwithstanding that various churches have abused their power
over the centuries particularly where the masses were illiterate and
could not read the Bible for themselves.
I think that this equivalence between Christianity and Islam may indeed
be highly dangerous, because it indirectly implies that Islam can adapt
to modern standards of freedom and human rights in a way that it
actually cannot.
.
User: "Englishman"

Title: Re: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK 19 Feb 2006 01:28:24 PM
@ Bert Hyman
The poll published in today's Sunday Telegraph gave the result as 40%
of Muslims questioned want Sharia law introduced "in predominantly
Muslim areas", 41% don't, 19% were "don't knows" or "refused to say".
To my way of thinking, that indicates a very even split, almost 50-50,
between those that want Sharia and those that don't.
Of course, as you rightly point out, polls should be treated with
caution, and also the situation is fluid. There is evidence of a
polarisation of opinion, with many formerly more moderate Muslims
feeling themselves alienated from Majority society because of
blasphemous cartoons, being viewed as potential terrorists, wars in
Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine etc. In other words, Muslim terrorism
and insurgency provoke a Western repressive response, which in turn
provokes more alienation among Muslims, which leads to more terrorism
and insurgency, which provokes etc. etc.
In short, the prospects do not look good for those who promised us "a
harmonious, vibrant multicultural, multifaith society based on justice
and equality". It's getting to look more like a pre-civil war
situation based on mutual suspicion and hostility. The words: "I seem
to see before me, like the Roman of old, the River Tiber foaming with
much blood," seem to spring to mind.
@ Martin (?)
All monotheistic religions teach that there is only one true God, and
that therefore there is only one true religion, and that therefore all
other gods are false gods and all other religions are offensive to the
one true God - and there'll be a day of judgement when the idolators
and false believers will be consigned to everlasting torment.
It's not so long ago that rumours of some false believer or heretic
caricaturing Jesus or the Virgin would have provoked bloody riots in
Christian lands. Admittedly, that is not likely to happen nowadays,
but that is because only some 5% of British people go to church anyway.
British people nowadays are more likely to riot if their favourite
football team gets disallowed a penalty.
The conclusion I draw from this is not that Muslims are backward and
feeble-minded, but that they have something to believe in and fight for
- and we, for the most part, do not. It is the West that is weak,
notwithstanding all its wealth and weaponry - and that is why there is
a Muslim Fifth Column in Europe and America, but no Christian Fifth
Column in Saudi Arabia.
Don't underestimate the enemy. The Muslims have far more real strength
and influence in this country than their paltry numbers - two and a
half million - would suggest. The influence they exert on
policy-makers and the press is more like that of a minority of
10,000,000. Given that their numbers are increasing phenomenally
through mass immigration, they are likely to double their numbers
within less than a decade, you had better all decide to fight this
peril now, or - if you're too weak to do that - just go ahead and
convert to Islam now.
The difference between Jesus and Mohammed is that Jesus did not lead an
army, rule a state, fight in numerous wars, and offer his defeated
enemies the choice between conversion to Islam or death. Mohammed did!
And it proved to be a very effective strategy - hence his followers
spread the new faith within a few decades from Morrocco to Persia and
beyond.
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK 19 Feb 2006 03:54:22 PM
Englishman wrote:

It's not so long ago that rumours of some false believer or heretic
caricaturing Jesus or the Virgin would have provoked bloody riots in
Christian lands. Admittedly, that is not likely to happen nowadays,
but that is because only some 5% of British people go to church anyway.
British people nowadays are more likely to riot if their favourite
football team gets disallowed a penalty.

Here in the US, far more go to church and profess Christianity, as I'm
sure you are aware, but blasphemy (eg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ) does not provoke riots,
bloody or otherwise.

The conclusion I draw from this is not that Muslims are backward and
feeble-minded, but that they have something to believe in and fight for
- and we, for the most part, do not. It is the West that is weak,
notwithstanding all its wealth and weaponry - and that is why there is
a Muslim Fifth Column in Europe and America, but no Christian Fifth
Column in Saudi Arabia.

It is not clear that the US has the same Muslim problem that you have
created for yourselves. The 9/11 gang were not home-grown.

Don't underestimate the enemy. The Muslims have far more real strength
and influence in this country than their paltry numbers - two and a
half million - would suggest. The influence they exert on
policy-makers and the press is more like that of a minority of
10,000,000. Given that their numbers are increasing phenomenally
through mass immigration, they are likely to double their numbers
within less than a decade, you had better all decide to fight this
peril now, or - if you're too weak to do that - just go ahead and
convert to Islam now.

It is not just immigration; their reproduction rate is twice that of
the white majority.

The difference between Jesus and Mohammed is

...irrelevant to the issue, which is whether Britain and the rest of
Europe will maintain its liberal character or lose it as the influence
of Islam grows, and the white population ages.

that Jesus did not lead an
army, rule a state, fight in numerous wars, and offer his defeated
enemies the choice between conversion to Islam or death. Mohammed did!
And it proved to be a very effective strategy - hence his followers
spread the new faith within a few decades from Morrocco to Persia and
beyond.

.
User: "Lukas Mariman"

Title: Re: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK 19 Feb 2006 05:25:04 PM
<EKurtz99@aol.com> schreef in bericht
news:1140386061.953270.288090@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Englishman wrote:

It's not so long ago that rumours of some false believer or heretic
caricaturing Jesus or the Virgin would have provoked bloody riots in
Christian lands. Admittedly, that is not likely to happen nowadays,
but that is because only some 5% of British people go to church anyway.
British people nowadays are more likely to riot if their favourite
football team gets disallowed a penalty.


Here in the US, far more go to church and profess Christianity, as I'm
sure you are aware, but blasphemy (eg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ) does not provoke riots,
bloody or otherwise.

The conclusion I draw from this is not that Muslims are backward and
feeble-minded, but that they have something to believe in and fight for
- and we, for the most part, do not. It is the West that is weak,
notwithstanding all its wealth and weaponry - and that is why there is
a Muslim Fifth Column in Europe and America, but no Christian Fifth
Column in Saudi Arabia.


It is not clear that the US has the same Muslim problem that you have
created for yourselves. The 9/11 gang were not home-grown.

Exactly what is that supposed to mean?
You don't suppose that the reason the muslims are so hostile to everything
western because of...
1. Israel
2. Israel
3. Israel
4. Bush & Adventures in Afghanistan
5. Bush & Adventures in Iraq
6. Bush & [insert latest screw-up here]
.... in the first place? Now suddenly it's a problem "we" created? "Not
home-grown"? I'm not going to argue about this, but that's just ignorant if
not downright sick.
Also, in case you didn't know, the cartoons are just an excuse, a catalyst
for the Islamic discontent with the west.
A controversy which BTW was started by those Danish muslim imams themselves,
as shown here:
http://www.neandernews.com/index.php?s=cartoons
That should teach Europe for inviting people to come and live there. Yeah,
we had it coming.
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK 19 Feb 2006 06:37:29 PM

<EKurtz99@aol.com> wrote

It is not clear that the US has the same Muslim problem that you have
created for yourselves. The 9/11 gang were not home-grown.

Lukas Mariman wrote:

Exactly what is that supposed to mean?

You don't suppose that the reason the muslims are so hostile to everything
western because of...

1. Israel
2. Israel
3. Israel
4. Bush & Adventures in Afghanistan
5. Bush & Adventures in Iraq
6. Bush & [insert latest screw-up here]

... in the first place?

Quite right, I don't. But its more a conclusion than a supposition.

Now suddenly it's a problem "we" created? "Not
home-grown"? I'm not going to argue about this,

Good decision, since you are clearly a ranting abusive twit.

but that's just ignorant if
not downright sick.

Also, in case you didn't know, the cartoons are just an excuse, a catalyst
for the Islamic discontent with the west.

A controversy which BTW was started by those Danish muslim imams themselves,
as shown here:

http://www.neandernews.com/index.php?s=cartoons

That should teach Europe for inviting people to come and live there. Yeah,
we had it coming.

Exactly. And it came.
.
User: "Lukas Mariman"

Title: Re: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK 19 Feb 2006 08:55:01 PM
<EKurtz99@aol.com> schreef in bericht
news:1140395849.296431.303390@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

<EKurtz99@aol.com> wrote

It is not clear that the US has the same Muslim problem that you have
created for yourselves. The 9/11 gang were not home-grown.


Lukas Mariman wrote:

Exactly what is that supposed to mean?

You don't suppose that the reason the muslims are so hostile to
everything
western because of...

1. Israel
2. Israel
3. Israel
4. Bush & Adventures in Afghanistan
5. Bush & Adventures in Iraq
6. Bush & [insert latest screw-up here]

... in the first place?


Quite right, I don't. But its more a conclusion than a supposition.

You're right! It is really pretty much a fact, isn't it? You know, usually,
your kind doesn't confess the facts this fast, but I'm not one to
complain...

Now suddenly it's a problem "we" created? "Not
home-grown"? I'm not going to argue about this,


Good decision, since you are clearly a ranting abusive twit.

Well, I hope that makes you better about yourself. Just keep repeating that
to yourself. That is what those who follow Bush & cronies do best - hanging
on to their own fantasy world in spite of... well, *reality*. Hey, you
should try reading some Tolkien!

but that's just ignorant if
not downright sick.

Also, in case you didn't know, the cartoons are just an excuse, a
catalyst
for the Islamic discontent with the west.

A controversy which BTW was started by those Danish muslim imams
themselves,
as shown here:

http://www.neandernews.com/index.php?s=cartoons

That should teach Europe for inviting people to come and live there.
Yeah,
we had it coming.


Exactly. And it came.

Your compassion is overwhelming. And then you wonder why terrorists bomb
your country? Really...
Now seriously, I am holding you and your kind responsible for this mess.
What are you going to do about it? And no, invading another Middle East
country is *not* the right answer.
.




User: "abelard"

Title: Re: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK 19 Feb 2006 01:45:46 PM
On 19 Feb 2006 11:28:24 -0800, "Englishman" <suprema.lex@ntlworld.com>
typed:

@ Bert Hyman

The poll published in today's Sunday Telegraph gave the result as 40%
of Muslims questioned want Sharia law introduced "in predominantly
Muslim areas", 41% don't, 19% were "don't knows" or "refused to say".
To my way of thinking, that indicates a very even split, almost 50-50,
between those that want Sharia and those that don't.

Of course, as you rightly point out, polls should be treated with
caution, and also the situation is fluid. There is evidence of a
polarisation of opinion, with many formerly more moderate Muslims
feeling themselves alienated from Majority society because of
blasphemous cartoons, being viewed as potential terrorists, wars in
Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine etc. In other words, Muslim terrorism
and insurgency provoke a Western repressive response, which in turn
provokes more alienation among Muslims, which leads to more terrorism
and insurgency, which provokes etc. etc.

In short, the prospects do not look good for those who promised us "a
harmonious, vibrant multicultural, multifaith society based on justice
and equality". It's getting to look more like a pre-civil war
situation based on mutual suspicion and hostility. The words: "I seem
to see before me, like the Roman of old, the River Tiber foaming with
much blood," seem to spring to mind.

@ Martin (?)

All monotheistic religions teach that there is only one true God, and
that therefore there is only one true religion, and that therefore all
other gods are false gods and all other religions are offensive to the
one true God - and there'll be a day of judgement when the idolators
and false believers will be consigned to everlasting torment.

It's not so long ago that rumours of some false believer or heretic
caricaturing Jesus or the Virgin would have provoked bloody riots in
Christian lands. Admittedly, that is not likely to happen nowadays,
but that is because only some 5% of British people go to church anyway.
British people nowadays are more likely to riot if their favourite
football team gets disallowed a penalty.

The conclusion I draw from this is not that Muslims are backward and
feeble-minded, but that they have something to believe in

the problem is not with them believing whatever nonsense they wish..
the problem is motivation to force their beliefs on others...

and fight for
- and we, for the most part, do not. It is the West that is weak,

the west is anything but weak....
do not judge the west by the mindless socialists....
western democratic 'beliefs' have conquered much of the world
in the last century....and that process is continuing to spread
rapidly....
it is islam that is now under great pressure....the areas of islam
are *also* backward in both technology and education...

notwithstanding all its wealth and weaponry - and that is why there is
a Muslim Fifth Column in Europe and America, but no Christian Fifth
Column in Saudi Arabia.

to be an open christianist there is dangerous..

Don't underestimate the enemy. The Muslims have far more real strength
and influence in this country than their paltry numbers - two and a
half million - would suggest. The influence they exert on
policy-makers and the press is more like that of a minority of
10,000,000.

what are you basing that assessment upon?

Given that their numbers are increasing phenomenally
through mass immigration, they are likely to double their numbers
within less than a decade, you had better all decide to fight this
peril now, or - if you're too weak to do that - just go ahead and
convert to Islam now.

The difference between Jesus and Mohammed is that Jesus did not lead an
army, rule a state, fight in numerous wars, and offer his defeated
enemies the choice between conversion to Islam or death. Mohammed did!
And it proved to be a very effective strategy - hence his followers
spread the new faith within a few decades from Morrocco to Persia and
beyond.

regards....
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.



User: "abelard"

Title: Re: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK 19 Feb 2006 12:42:19 PM
On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 12:34:22 -0600, <turk>
typed:

"Energumen" <energoumenos@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:1140364191.232856.39140@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


turk wrote:

"nightops" <frankbooth_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cdsgv1ds952bme2t3bgcbrgagsn6khg5vp@4ax.com...


Yes, Muslims just want to fit in...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/19/nsharia19.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/02/19/ixportaltop.html

Poll reveals 40pc of Muslims want sharia law in UK
By Patrick Hennessy and Melissa Kite
(Filed: 19/02/2006)

Four out of 10 British Muslims want sharia law introduced into parts
of the country, a survey reveals today.

The ICM opinion poll also indicates that a fifth have sympathy with
the "feelings and motives" of the suicide bombers who attacked London
last July 7, killing 52 people, although 99 per cent thought the
bombers were wrong to carry out the atrocity.


This is a religion based on the simple fact that Muslims must, and
eventually will, rule the earth and kill the non-believers. The Koran
states so explicitly. There is no room for moderation. Polls in the
Middle
East show that the majority of people feel that suicide bombers are
justified and civil liberties are to be oppressed. That's part of the
problem with the American policy of bringing democracy to the Middle
East.
Give these people the option to vote and they will vote against their own
rights in droves. They'd sooner be subject to beatings over forgetting
to
pray than see a woman expose an ankle.

Faith kills. That's basically what this is. This is Muslims following
their Koran. If the Christians start following their Bible to the
letter,
then they will be just as bad, if not worse.


You were doing all right until the last sentence, which is complete
hogwash. And no I am not a Christian. I wonder why people feel the need
to assert that Christianity is as bad as Islam all the time. It just
isn't. Deal with it. Get over it.


Christianity is not as bad because it has been tempered by secularism. Read
the Bible. It's full of genocidal commandments. It's full of atrocities
that would make the average person wince. That's why I qualified it as "if
the Christians start following their Bible". Know your source material,
dumbass. I can quote a lot of it if you're too stupid or don't have a
qualified adult nearby to look it up.

large parts of christianism regard the old testament as superseded....
would you still hope to make good your claim based solely on the nt?
if so...i'd like to watch!
regards...
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.
User: "Lukas Mariman"

Title: Re: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK 19 Feb 2006 05:11:31 PM
"abelard" <abelard2@abelard.org> schreef in bericht
news:1sehv11jqs43opgt0akgqcdq549rhvv6gu@4ax.com...

... [snipped]
You were doing all right until the last sentence, which is complete
hogwash. And no I am not a Christian. I wonder why people feel the need
to assert that Christianity is as bad as Islam all the time. It just
isn't. Deal with it. Get over it.


Christianity is not as bad because it has been tempered by secularism.
Read
the Bible. It's full of genocidal commandments. It's full of atrocities
that would make the average person wince. That's why I qualified it as
"if
the Christians start following their Bible". Know your source material,
dumbass. I can quote a lot of it if you're too stupid or don't have a
qualified adult nearby to look it up.


large parts of christianism regard the old testament as superseded....
would you still hope to make good your claim based solely on the nt?

So half of this supposedly holy, infallible book, this word of "god" is
actually obsolete and should be ignored? Come on already, admit that these
*holy books* are a sick joke.
.
User: "Energumen"

Title: Re: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK 19 Feb 2006 05:31:25 PM
Lukas Mariman wrote:

"abelard" <abelard2@abelard.org> schreef in bericht
news:1sehv11jqs43opgt0akgqcdq549rhvv6gu@4ax.com...

... [snipped]
You were doing all right until the last sentence, which is complete
hogwash. And no I am not a Christian. I wonder why people feel the need
to assert that Christianity is as bad as Islam all the time. It just
isn't. Deal with it. Get over it.


Christianity is not as bad because it has been tempered by secularism.
Read
the Bible. It's full of genocidal commandments. It's full of atrocities
that would make the average person wince. That's why I qualified it as
"if
the Christians start following their Bible". Know your source material,
dumbass. I can quote a lot of it if you're too stupid or don't have a
qualified adult nearby to look it up.


large parts of christianism regard the old testament as superseded....
would you still hope to make good your claim based solely on the nt?


So half of this supposedly holy, infallible book, this word of "god" is
actually obsolete and should be ignored?

No, the death of Christ is supposed to be the completion of a contract
and creation of a new one. Hence Mosaic law does not apply to
Christians and there is no obligation on Christians to apply Old
Testament punishments, avoid pork, get their todger chopped etc. This
is standard Pauline Christianity (ie. 99% of it existing). It was like
that from day one of Christianity, and Christians have acted
accordingly 99% of the time since then. Sure Christians at times
regularly hung, drawn and quartered people, and other things as bad as
the Taliban, but they didn't do so as a religious obligation, any more
than Americans put people in the electric chair today because it says
so in the Bible.

Come on already, admit that these
*holy books* are a sick joke.

Which ones? Have you read the Avesta? Diamond Sutra? Tao te Ching? Why
tar all these books with the same brush? If you have a problem with
something it says in one of them then by all means say so, but they are
all different from each other. Therefore automatically condemning a
religious text qua religious text is rather ignorant.
.
User: "Lukas Mariman"

Title: Re: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK 19 Feb 2006 07:24:48 PM
"Energumen" <energoumenos@googlemail.com> schreef in bericht
news:1140391885.800633.185930@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


Lukas Mariman wrote:

"abelard" <abelard2@abelard.org> schreef in bericht
news:1sehv11jqs43opgt0akgqcdq549rhvv6gu@4ax.com...

... [snipped]
You were doing all right until the last sentence, which is complete
hogwash. And no I am not a Christian. I wonder why people feel the
need
to assert that Christianity is as bad as Islam all the time. It just
isn't. Deal with it. Get over it.


Christianity is not as bad because it has been tempered by secularism.
Read
the Bible. It's full of genocidal commandments. It's full of
atrocities
that would make the average person wince. That's why I qualified it as
"if
the Christians start following their Bible". Know your source
material,
dumbass. I can quote a lot of it if you're too stupid or don't have a
qualified adult nearby to look it up.


large parts of christianism regard the old testament as superseded....
would you still hope to make good your claim based solely on the nt?


So half of this supposedly holy, infallible book, this word of "god" is
actually obsolete and should be ignored?


No, the death of Christ is supposed to be the completion of a contract
and creation of a new one. Hence Mosaic law does not apply to
Christians and there is no obligation on Christians to apply Old
Testament punishments, avoid pork, get their todger chopped etc. This
is standard Pauline Christianity (ie. 99% of it existing). It was like
that from day one of Christianity, and Christians have acted
accordingly 99% of the time since then. Sure Christians at times
regularly hung, drawn and quartered people, and other things as bad as
the Taliban, but they didn't do so as a religious obligation, any more
than Americans put people in the electric chair today because it says
so in the Bible.

Come on already, admit that these
*holy books* are a sick joke.


Which ones? Have you read the Avesta? Diamond Sutra? Tao te Ching? Why
tar all these books with the same brush? If you have a problem with
something it says in one of them then by all means say so, but they are
all different from each other. Therefore automatically condemning a
religious text qua religious text is rather ignorant.

Fairy nuff!
I should have specified - I am referring to the books of judaism,
christianism, and islam, that all had the same roots in the first place.
Most of the other religions are "mostly harmless", as the HHGTTG would put
it. But does that say anything about their worth?
.

User: "James Hammerton"

Title: Re: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK 19 Feb 2006 05:56:39 PM
On 19 Feb 2006 15:31:25 -0800, "Energumen"
<energoumenos@googlemail.com> wrote:


Lukas Mariman wrote:

"abelard" <abelard2@abelard.org> schreef in bericht
news:1sehv11jqs43opgt0akgqcdq549rhvv6gu@4ax.com...

... [snipped]
You were doing all right until the last sentence, which is complete
hogwash. And no I am not a Christian. I wonder why people feel the need
to assert that Christianity is as bad as Islam all the time. It just
isn't. Deal with it. Get over it.


Christianity is not as bad because it has been tempered by secularism.
Read
the Bible. It's full of genocidal commandments. It's full of atrocities
that would make the average person wince. That's why I qualified it as
"if
the Christians start following their Bible". Know your source material,
dumbass. I can quote a lot of it if you're too stupid or don't have a
qualified adult nearby to look it up.


large parts of christianism regard the old testament as superseded....
would you still hope to make good your claim based solely on the nt?


So half of this supposedly holy, infallible book, this word of "god" is
actually obsolete and should be ignored?


No, the death of Christ is supposed to be the completion of a contract
and creation of a new one. Hence Mosaic law does not apply to
Christians and there is no obligation on Christians to apply Old
Testament punishments, avoid pork, get their todger chopped etc. This
is standard Pauline Christianity (ie. 99% of it existing). It was like
that from day one of Christianity, and Christians have acted
accordingly 99% of the time since then. Sure Christians at times
regularly hung, drawn and quartered people, and other things as bad as
the Taliban, but they didn't do so as a religious obligation, any more
than Americans put people in the electric chair today because it says
so in the Bible.

Come on already, admit that these
*holy books* are a sick joke.


Which ones? Have you read the Avesta?

I am curious which religion you are refering to via this book...
James
--
James Hammerton, http://jameshammerton.blogspot.com/
Contributor to Magna Carta Plus: http://www.magnacartaplus.org/
Magna Carta Plus News weblog: http://www.magnacartaplus.org/news/index.php
.
User: "Energumen"

Title: Re: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK 20 Feb 2006 12:02:55 PM
James Hammerton wrote:

On 19 Feb 2006 15:31:25 -0800, "Energumen"
<energoumenos@googlemail.com> wrote:


Lukas Mariman wrote:

"abelard" <abelard2@abelard.org> schreef in bericht
news:1sehv11jqs43opgt0akgqcdq549rhvv6gu@4ax.com...

... [snipped]
You were doing all right until the last sentence, which is complete
hogwash. And no I am not a Christian. I wonder why people feel the need
to assert that Christianity is as bad as Islam all the time. It just
isn't. Deal with it. Get over it.


Christianity is not as bad because it has been tempered by secularism.
Read
the Bible. It's full of genocidal commandments. It's full of atrocities
that would make the average person wince. That's why I qualified it as
"if
the Christians start following their Bible". Know your source material,
dumbass. I can quote a lot of it if you're too stupid or don't have a
qualified adult nearby to look it up.


large parts of christianism regard the old testament as superseded....
would you still hope to make good your claim based solely on the nt?


So half of this supposedly holy, infallible book, this word of "god" is
actually obsolete and should be ignored?


No, the death of Christ is supposed to be the completion of a contract
and creation of a new one. Hence Mosaic law does not apply to
Christians and there is no obligation on Christians to apply Old
Testament punishments, avoid pork, get their todger chopped etc. This
is standard Pauline Christianity (ie. 99% of it existing). It was like
that from day one of Christianity, and Christians have acted
accordingly 99% of the time since then. Sure Christians at times
regularly hung, drawn and quartered people, and other things as bad as
the Taliban, but they didn't do so as a religious obligation, any more
than Americans put people in the electric chair today because it says
so in the Bible.

Come on already, admit that these
*holy books* are a sick joke.


Which ones? Have you read the Avesta?


I am curious which religion you are refering to via this book...

http://www.religioustolerance.org/zoroastr.htm
.
User: "James Hammerton"

Title: Re: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK 20 Feb 2006 02:32:01 PM
On 20 Feb 2006 10:02:55 -0800, "Energumen"
<energoumenos@googlemail.com> wrote:


James Hammerton wrote:

On 19 Feb 2006 15:31:25 -0800, "Energumen"
<energoumenos@googlemail.com> wrote:


Lukas Mariman wrote:

"abelard" <abelard2@abelard.org> schreef in bericht
news:1sehv11jqs43opgt0akgqcdq549rhvv6gu@4ax.com...

... [snipped]
You were doing all right until the last sentence, which is complete
hogwash. And no I am not a Christian. I wonder why people feel the need
to assert that Christianity is as bad as Islam all the time. It just
isn't. Deal with it. Get over it.


Christianity is not as bad because it has been tempered by secularism.
Read
the Bible. It's full of genocidal commandments. It's full of atrocities
that would make the average person wince. That's why I qualified it as
"if
the Christians start following their Bible". Know your source material,
dumbass. I can quote a lot of it if you're too stupid or don't have a
qualified adult nearby to look it up.


large parts of christianism regard the old testament as superseded....
would you still hope to make good your claim based solely on the nt?


So half of this supposedly holy, infallible book, this word of "god" is
actually obsolete and should be ignored?


No, the death of Christ is supposed to be the completion of a contract
and creation of a new one. Hence Mosaic law does not apply to
Christians and there is no obligation on Christians to apply Old
Testament punishments, avoid pork, get their todger chopped etc. This
is standard Pauline Christianity (ie. 99% of it existing). It was like
that from day one of Christianity, and Christians have acted
accordingly 99% of the time since then. Sure Christians at times
regularly hung, drawn and quartered people, and other things as bad as
the Taliban, but they didn't do so as a religious obligation, any more
than Americans put people in the electric chair today because it says
so in the Bible.

Come on already, admit that these
*holy books* are a sick joke.


Which ones? Have you read the Avesta?


I am curious which religion you are refering to via this book...


http://www.religioustolerance.org/zoroastr.htm

Thanks.
James
--
James Hammerton, http://jameshammerton.blogspot.com/
Contributor to Magna Carta Plus: http://www.magnacartaplus.org/
Magna Carta Plus News weblog: http://www.magnacartaplus.org/news/index.php
.




User: "abelard"

Title: Re: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK 19 Feb 2006 05:37:45 PM
On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 00:11:31 +0100, "Lukas Mariman"
<lukas.mariman@skynet.be>
typed:


"abelard" <abelard2@abelard.org> schreef in bericht
news:1sehv11jqs43opgt0akgqcdq549rhvv6gu@4ax.com...

... [snipped]
You were doing all right until the last sentence, which is complete
hogwash. And no I am not a Christian. I wonder why people feel the need
to assert that Christianity is as bad as Islam all the time. It just
isn't. Deal with it. Get over it.


Christianity is not as bad because it has been tempered by secularism.
Read
the Bible. It's full of genocidal commandments. It's full of atrocities
that would make the average person wince. That's why I qualified it as
"if
the Christians start following their Bible". Know your source material,
dumbass. I can quote a lot of it if you're too stupid or don't have a
qualified adult nearby to look it up.


large parts of christianism regard the old testament as superseded....
would you still hope to make good your claim based solely on the nt?


So half of this supposedly holy, infallible book, this word of "god" is
actually obsolete and should be ignored? Come on already, admit that these
*holy books* are a sick joke.

i have no intention of specifying how you may choose to view them.
regards...
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.
User: "Lukas Mariman"

Title: Re: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK 19 Feb 2006 07:30:55 PM
"abelard" <abelard2@abelard.org> schreef in bericht
news:m80iv1hrmnph5dcr0c3nklaf7ktiu442ra@4ax.com...

On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 00:11:31 +0100, "Lukas Mariman"
<lukas.mariman@skynet.be>

typed:


"abelard" <abelard2@abelard.org> schreef in bericht
news:1sehv11jqs43opgt0akgqcdq549rhvv6gu@4ax.com...

... [snipped]
You were doing all right until the last sentence, which is complete
hogwash. And no I am not a Christian. I wonder why people feel the
need
to assert that Christianity is as bad as Islam all the time. It just
isn't. Deal with it. Get over it.


Christianity is not as bad because it has been tempered by secularism.
Read
the Bible. It's full of genocidal commandments. It's full of
atrocities
that would make the average person wince. That's why I qualified it as
"if
the Christians start following their Bible". Know your source material,
dumbass. I can quote a lot of it if you're too stupid or don't have a
qualified adult nearby to look it up.


large parts of christianism regard the old testament as superseded....
would you still hope to make good your claim based solely on the nt?


So half of this supposedly holy, infallible book, this word of "god" is
actually obsolete and should be ignored? Come on already, admit that these
*holy books* are a sick joke.


i have no intention of specifying how you may choose to view them.

I understand that; I was just trying to make a point. Really, how can one
take a supposedly "holy book" serious if half of it is to be ignored a
priori? What does that say about this book? Can one take ANY part of it for
granted?
.
User: "abelard"

Title: Re: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK 19 Feb 2006 07:38:32 PM
On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 02:30:55 +0100, "Lukas Mariman"
<lukas.mariman@skynet.be>
typed:


"abelard" <abelard2@abelard.org> schreef in bericht
news:m80iv1hrmnph5dcr0c3nklaf7ktiu442ra@4ax.com...

On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 00:11:31 +0100, "Lukas Mariman"
<lukas.mariman@skynet.be>

typed:


"abelard" <abelard2@abelard.org> schreef in bericht
news:1sehv11jqs43opgt0akgqcdq549rhvv6gu@4ax.com...

... [snipped]
You were doing all right until the last sentence, which is complete
hogwash. And no I am not a Christian. I wonder why people feel the
need
to assert that Christianity is as bad as Islam all the time. It just
isn't. Deal with it. Get over it.


Christianity is not as bad because it has been tempered by secularism.
Read
the Bible. It's full of genocidal commandments. It's full of
atrocities
that would make the average person wince. That's why I qualified it as
"if
the Christians start following their Bible". Know your source material,
dumbass. I can quote a lot of it if you're too stupid or don't have a
qualified adult nearby to look it up.


large parts of christianism regard the old testament as superseded....
would you still hope to make good your claim based solely on the nt?


So half of this supposedly holy, infallible book, this word of "god" is
actually obsolete and should be ignored? Come on already, admit that these
*holy books* are a sick joke.


i have no intention of specifying how you may choose to view them.


I understand that; I was just trying to make a point. Really, how can one
take a supposedly "holy book" serious if half of it is to be ignored a
priori? What does that say about this book?

it's a thousand or more years old?

Can one take ANY part of it for
granted?

i don't do that with science books :-)
or dictionaries....let alone the fossil media...
imagine taking the holy books of socialism seriously! some do.
regards..
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.






User: "martin"

Title: Re: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK 19 Feb 2006 11:57:20 AM
Energumen wrote:

turk wrote:


Faith kills. That's basically what this is. This is Muslims following
their Koran. If the Christians start following their Bible to the letter,
then they will be just as bad, if not worse.


You were doing all right until the last sentence, which is complete
hogwash. And no I am not a Christian. I wonder why people feel the need
to assert that Christianity is as bad as Islam all the time. It just
isn't. Deal with it. Get over it.

Eat a lobster, get stoned! Not in a good way either
Plant mixed crops in your field get stoned
Disrespect your parents, kill the little sods
.....
.



User: "Liberty DEFEATS Islam!"

Title: Muslims have now laid their cards on the table 19 Feb 2006 07:41:40 AM
"nightops" <frankbooth_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cdsgv1ds952bme2t3bgcbrgagsn6khg5vp@4ax.com...


Yes, Muslims just want to fit in...

Muslims have now laid their cards on the table.
Their Islamist designs and ambitions stand naked and exposed for all the
world to see.
And they are unacceptable.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/19/nsharia19.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/02/19/ixportaltop.html

Poll reveals 40pc of Muslims want sharia law in UK
By Patrick Hennessy and Melissa Kite
(Filed: 19/02/2006)

Four out of 10 British Muslims want sharia law introduced into parts
of the country, a survey reveals today.

The ICM opinion poll also indicates that a fifth have sympathy with
the "feelings and motives" of the suicide bombers who attacked London
last July 7, killing 52 people, although 99 per cent thought the
bombers were wrong to carry out the atrocity.

50pc said interracial relations were worsening
Overall, the findings depict a Muslim community becoming more radical
and feeling more alienated from mainstream society, even though 91 per
cent still say they feel loyal to Britain.

The results of the poll, conducted for the Sunday Telegraph, came as
thousands of Muslims staged a fresh protest in London yesterday
against the publication of cartoons of Mohammed. In Libya, at least 10
people died in protests linked to the caricatures.

And in Pakistan, a cleric was reported to have put a $1 million
(£575,000) bounty on the head of the Danish cartoonist who drew the
original pictures.

Last night, Sadiq Khan, the Labour MP involved with the official task
force set up after the July attacks, said the findings were
"alarming". He added: "Vast numbers of Muslims feel disengaged and
alienated from mainstream British society." Sir Iqbal Sacranie, the
secretary general of the Muslim Council of Britain, said: "This poll
confirms the widespread opposition among British Muslims to the
so-called war on terror."

The most startling finding is the high level of support for applying
sharia law in "predom-inantly Muslim" areas of Britain.

Sadiq Khan: 'Alarming'
Islamic law is used in large parts of the Middle East, including Iran
and Saudi Arabia, and is enforced by religious police. Special courts
can hand down harsh punishments which can include stoning and
amputation.

Forty per cent of the British Muslims surveyed said they backed
introducing sharia in parts of Britain, while 41 per cent opposed it.
Twenty per cent felt sympathy with the July 7 bombers' motives, and 75
per cent did not. One per cent felt the attacks were "right".

Nearly two thirds thought the video images shown last week of British
troops beating Iraqi youths were symptomatic of a wider problem in
Iraq. Half did not think the soldiers would be "appropriately
punished".

Half of the 500 people surveyed said relations between white Britons
and Muslims were getting worse. Only just over half thought the
conviction of the cleric Abu Hamza for incitement to murder and race
hatred was fair.

Mr Khan, the MP for Tooting, said: "We must redouble our efforts to
bring Muslims on board with the mainstream community. For all the
efforts made since last July, things do not have appear to have got
better."

He agreed with Sir Iqbal that the poll showed Muslims still had a "big
gripe" about foreign policy, particularly over the war on terror and
Iraq.

David Davis, the shadow home secretary, said: "It shows we have a long
way to go to win the battle of ideas within some parts of the Muslim
community and why it is absolutely vital that we reinforce the voice
of moderate Islam wherever possible."

A spokesman for Charles Clarke, the Home Secretary, said: "It is
critically important to ensure that Muslims, and all faiths, feel part
of modern British society. Today's survey indicates we still have a
long way to go. [but] we are committed to working with all faiths to
ensure we achieve that end."

.

User: "arealman"

Title: Re: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK 19 Feb 2006 11:35:02 AM
Cover the pavements with bacon ( Danish of course )
--
*************************************************************************
Planet Dearth circles the Bun in a faraway Galaxy.
In the northern hemisphere is a land called Englandistan
ruled by a despotic moron of the third order called Phoney
Bliar and elected un-democratically by the Botch to north
and the Belsch to the east. Any similarity between events
on planet Dearth and your home planet are entirely co-incidental.
****************************************************************************
"nightops" <frankbooth_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cdsgv1ds952bme2t3bgcbrgagsn6khg5vp@4ax.com...


Yes, Muslims just want to fit in...


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/19/nsharia19.xm
l&sSheet=/portal/2006/02/19/ixportaltop.html


Poll reveals 40pc of Muslims want sharia law in UK
By Patrick Hennessy and Melissa Kite
(Filed: 19/02/2006)

Four out of 10 British Muslims want sharia law introduced into parts
of the country, a survey reveals today.

The ICM opinion poll also indicates that a fifth have sympathy with
the "feelings and motives" of the suicide bombers who attacked London
last July 7, killing 52 people, although 99 per cent thought the
bombers were wrong to carry out the atrocity.

50pc said interracial relations were worsening
Overall, the findings depict a Muslim community becoming more radical
and feeling more alienated from mainstream society, even though 91 per
cent still say they feel loyal to Britain.

The results of the poll, conducted for the Sunday Telegraph, came as
thousands of Muslims staged a fresh protest in London yesterday
against the publication of cartoons of Mohammed. In Libya, at least 10
people died in protests linked to the caricatures.

And in Pakistan, a cleric was reported to have put a $1 million
(£575,000) bounty on the head of the Danish cartoonist who drew the
original pictures.

Last night, Sadiq Khan, the Labour MP involved with the official task
force set up after the July attacks, said the findings were
"alarming". He added: "Vast numbers of Muslims feel disengaged and
alienated from mainstream British society." Sir Iqbal Sacranie, the
secretary general of the Muslim Council of Britain, said: "This poll
confirms the widespread opposition among British Muslims to the
so-called war on terror."

The most startling finding is the high level of support for applying
sharia law in "predom-inantly Muslim" areas of Britain.

Sadiq Khan: 'Alarming'
Islamic law is used in large parts of the Middle East, including Iran
and Saudi Arabia, and is enforced by religious police. Special courts
can hand down harsh punishments which can include stoning and
amputation.

Forty per cent of the British Muslims surveyed said they backed
introducing sharia in parts of Britain, while 41 per cent opposed it.
Twenty per cent felt sympathy with the July 7 bombers' motives, and 75
per cent did not. One per cent felt the attacks were "right".

Nearly two thirds thought the video images shown last week of British
troops beating Iraqi youths were symptomatic of a wider problem in
Iraq. Half did not think the soldiers would be "appropriately
punished".

Half of the 500 people surveyed said relations between white Britons
and Muslims were getting worse. Only just over half thought the
conviction of the cleric Abu Hamza for incitement to murder and race
hatred was fair.

Mr Khan, the MP for Tooting, said: "We must redouble our efforts to
bring Muslims on board with the mainstream community. For all the
efforts made since last July, things do not have appear to have got
better."

He agreed with Sir Iqbal that the poll showed Muslims still had a "big
gripe" about foreign policy, particularly over the war on terror and
Iraq.

David Davis, the shadow home secretary, said: "It shows we have a long
way to go to win the battle of ideas within some parts of the Muslim
community and why it is absolutely vital that we reinforce the voice
of moderate Islam wherever possible."

A spokesman for Charles Clarke, the Home Secretary, said: "It is
critically important to ensure that Muslims, and all faiths, feel part
of modern British society. Today's survey indicates we still have a
long way to go. [but] we are committed to working with all faiths to
ensure we achieve that end."

.

User: "Bert Hyman"

Title: Re: Poll reveals 40% of Muslims want sharia law in UK 19 Feb 2006 11:45:33 AM
In news:cdsgv1ds952bme2t3bgcbrgagsn6khg5vp@4ax.com nightops
<frankbooth_@hotmail.com> wrote:

Poll reveals 40pc of Muslims want sharia law in UK

Which suggests that 60% don't.
Has this question been asked before? How's this figure compare with
previous results?
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@iphouse.com
.