Religions > Atheism > Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Sound of Trumpet" |
| Date: |
09 Sep 2007 12:41:26 PM |
| Object: |
Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1893067/posts
Pope blasts Europeans for not having enough children
AFP ^ | 09-08-2007
Posted on 09/08/2007 7:00:51 AM PDT by RckyRaCoCo
MARIAZELL, Austria (AFP) - Pope Benedict XVI blasted Europeans for
being selfish and not having enough children, in a sermon on Saturday
at the 850-year-old pilgrimage site of Mariazell in Austria.
"Europe has become child-poor. We want everything for ourselves and
place little trust in the future," the pope told a crowd of faithful
from his canopied area at an open-air, afternoon mass that took place
under heavy rain.
But Benedict held out hope, saying: "The earth will be deprived of a
future only when the forces of the human heart and of reason
illuminated by the heart are extinguished . . . Where God is, there is
the future."
The pontiff had slammed abortion upon arriving in Austria Friday as
the "very opposite" of human rights.
"The fundamental human right, the presupposition of every other right,
is the right to life itself," he told members of the government and
the diplomatic corps at the Hofburg, the seat of the Austrian
presidency in Vienna.
Austrian Defence Minister Norbert Darabos said in a state televisin
interview however Saturday that the Austrian government would not call
for a change in the country's law which allows abortions.
Meanwhile, in evening prayers at Mariazell the traditionalist Pope
defended chastity for religious orders as a way for them to become
"men and women of hope."
Celibacy is not "individualism or a life of isolation" for priests,
nuns and other religious orders but "unreservedly" serving God and
having "deep relationships ... which they accept as a gift."
The Austrian Church has been wracked by several sex scandals involving
priests and in an open letter to the pope the liberal Austrian
movement Wir sind Kirche ("We are the Church") has called for the end
of celibacy.
Despite the bad weather that has dogged the visit so far, thousands
stood in the rain at Mariazell packed behind crowd barriers, with many
wearing yellow raincoats and some waving blue scarves, the traditional
colour of Jesus's mother Mary.
The pope, who had arrived in Mariazell from Vienna by car instead of
by helicopter due to the weather, waved to the crowd through the
windows of the Popemobile as he made his way to the centuries-old
white and pink basilica in Mariazell.
People who had been sheltering under doorways rushed towards his
motorcade as it passed, even as the rain increased in intensity.
Organisers said 33,040 free tickets had already been distributed for
Mariazell and that the pilgrims would include 70 bishops from central
and eastern European countries.
The Austrian archbishop, Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn, told the crowd
that two pilgrims had died from health problems, and the Pope said a
prayer for them.
On Friday, the pontiff said he intended his pilgrimage "to be a
journey made in the company of all the pilgrims of our time."
He said Mariazell "symbolizes an openness which... transcends physical
and national frontiers."
The main pilgrimage site in the Danube region, some 110 kilometres (70
miles) southwest of Vienna, the basilica was founded by Benedictine
monks.
The site, which is dedicated to the Virgin Mary and celebrates its
850th anniversary this year, welcomes around a million pilgrims every
year from Austria, neighbouring Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia and
Slovenia as well as Poland, Croatia and Bosnia-Hercegovina.
The Pope arrived in Vienna Friday morning and addressed a crowd of
thousands at Am Hof square before making a silent tribute to the
victims of the Holocaust at a nearby monument.
The pope's visit has been greeted with some criticism in a country
where the traditionally powerful Catholic Church is waning in
influence.
Statistics show the Austrian Church has lost about one million
followers since 1983, and only 67 percent of Austrians are still
officially Catholic, compared to almost 92 percent in 1900.
On Sunday, the Pope will celebrate a morning mass at Vienna's St.
Stepheon's Cathedral and visit the Cistercian monastery in
Heiligenkreuz, before flying back to Rome
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| User: "•R L Measures" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
13 Sep 2007 09:18:52 PM |
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In article <ce1je3t0nb4m5s3tu9diqs9o0fo5pr6krk@4ax.com>, Free Lunch
<lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 23:53:25 -0700, in alt.atheism
SJAB1958 <balfres@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1189666405.078913.38970@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>:
On 9 Sep, 20:40, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:38:09 -0500, in alt.atheism
duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in
<eri8e3tied9et6om8tvtodnl49jca2g...@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 12:42:07 -0500, Free Lunch
<lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
Pope blasts Europeans for not having enough children
How many children does he have?
The Pope is celibate for the good of the kingdom of God
Hogwash. Celibacy is a relatively recent invention of the Roman Catholic
Church. It was about power, control and money. Learn some history of
your church before you make up stories.
Children are an overflow of love between man and wife.
I guess you never took biology or sex education in Jr. High.
Actually celibacy was common in the early Christian Church because
they believed that the second coming was imminent, and monastic orders
(with their vows of celibacy) have existed in the Christian Church
from at least the 3rd Century AD. Therefore celibacy is not a recent
invention of the Roman Catholic Church.
But it wasn't necessary to the priesthood until well later.
€€ the 12th century is all that.
"The devil never harmed the church so much as when the church herself
adopted the vow of celibacy."
- - Peter Comestor (DOB ?, died c, AD1178 in Paris)
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| User: "SJAB1958" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
13 Sep 2007 03:02:27 PM |
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On 13 Sep, 19:48, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 23:53:25 -0700, in alt.atheism
SJAB1958 <balf...@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1189666405.078913.38...@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>:
On 9 Sep, 20:40, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:38:09 -0500, in alt.atheism
duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in
<eri8e3tied9et6om8tvtodnl49jca2g...@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 12:42:07 -0500, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
Pope blasts Europeans for not having enough children
How many children does he have?
The Pope is celibate for the good of the kingdom of God
Hogwash. Celibacy is a relatively recent invention of the Roman Catholic
Church. It was about power, control and money. Learn some history of
your church before you make up stories.
Children are an overflow of love between man and wife.
I guess you never took biology or sex education in Jr. High.
Actually celibacy was common in the early Christian Church because
they believed that the second coming was imminent, and monastic orders
(with their vows of celibacy) have existed in the Christian Church
from at least the 3rd Century AD. Therefore celibacy is not a recent
invention of the Roman Catholic Church.
But it wasn't necessary to the priesthood until well later.
Celibacy for priests is a discipline in the Roman Catholic Church, not
a doctrine: in other words, a church regulation, but not an integral
part of Church teaching. It is based upon the life of Christ and his
celibate way of life. However the first pope, St. Peter, as well as
many subsequent popes, bishops, and priests during the church's first
270 years were in fact married men, and often fathers.
The practice of clerical continence along with a prohibition of
marriage to men once ordained a deacon, priest or bishop was
implemented by the Council of Elvira (somewhere between 300 and 303
AD). This law was reinforced in the West at the Council of Carthage in
390.
Is that what you mean by much later?
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
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| User: "Free Lunch" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
13 Sep 2007 11:29:25 PM |
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On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:02:27 -0700, in alt.atheism
SJAB1958 <balfres@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1189713747.118628.187210@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>:
On 13 Sep, 19:48, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 23:53:25 -0700, in alt.atheism
SJAB1958 <balf...@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1189666405.078913.38...@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>:
On 9 Sep, 20:40, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:38:09 -0500, in alt.atheism
duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in
<eri8e3tied9et6om8tvtodnl49jca2g...@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 12:42:07 -0500, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
Pope blasts Europeans for not having enough children
How many children does he have?
The Pope is celibate for the good of the kingdom of God
Hogwash. Celibacy is a relatively recent invention of the Roman Catholic
Church. It was about power, control and money. Learn some history of
your church before you make up stories.
Children are an overflow of love between man and wife.
I guess you never took biology or sex education in Jr. High.
Actually celibacy was common in the early Christian Church because
they believed that the second coming was imminent, and monastic orders
(with their vows of celibacy) have existed in the Christian Church
from at least the 3rd Century AD. Therefore celibacy is not a recent
invention of the Roman Catholic Church.
But it wasn't necessary to the priesthood until well later.
Celibacy for priests is a discipline in the Roman Catholic Church, not
a doctrine: in other words, a church regulation, but not an integral
part of Church teaching. It is based upon the life of Christ and his
celibate way of life. However the first pope, St. Peter, as well as
many subsequent popes, bishops, and priests during the church's first
270 years were in fact married men, and often fathers.
The practice of clerical continence along with a prohibition of
marriage to men once ordained a deacon, priest or bishop was
implemented by the Council of Elvira (somewhere between 300 and 303
AD). This law was reinforced in the West at the Council of Carthage in
390.
IIRC they ordained priests who were already married for many centuries
after that, they merely forbade the marriage of priests in that time.
Is that what you mean by much later?
Of course Rome had no problem that the Orthodox never had that silly
rule.
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| User: "brique" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
13 Sep 2007 11:58:21 AM |
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SJAB1958 <balfres@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1189666405.078913.38970@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
On 9 Sep, 20:40, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:38:09 -0500, in alt.atheism
duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in
<eri8e3tied9et6om8tvtodnl49jca2g...@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 12:42:07 -0500, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us>
wrote:
Pope blasts Europeans for not having enough children
How many children does he have?
The Pope is celibate for the good of the kingdom of God
Hogwash. Celibacy is a relatively recent invention of the Roman Catholic
Church. It was about power, control and money. Learn some history of
your church before you make up stories.
Children are an overflow of love between man and wife.
I guess you never took biology or sex education in Jr. High.
Actually celibacy was common in the early Christian Church because
they believed that the second coming was imminent, and monastic orders
(with their vows of celibacy) have existed in the Christian Church
from at least the 3rd Century AD. Therefore celibacy is not a recent
invention of the Roman Catholic Church.
They don't seem to be able to practice it that well either..... in Ireland
the village idiot was often refered to as 'The Priests *****', no doubt a
reference to the disability being a punishment for the sin of the parents.
A recent documentary about a very well known and respected priest there
revealled he had two kids by his 'housekeeper', an ex-drug addict he took up
with when she was a teenager. He was quite famous for his preaching to young
people about the need for chatsity and waiting until marriage to have sex.
He even 'opened' for the Pope on one of his visits to Ireleand. He did try
to get help for his 'problem' but his bishop just told him to get his act
together and sin no more. His bishop was one Bishop Casey, who was also
revealled to have fathered a child....
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
13 Sep 2007 03:15:48 PM |
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On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:58:21 +0100, "brique" <briquenoir@freeuk.c0m>
in alt.abortion with message-id
<1189702861.8205.0@proxy02.news.clara.net> wrote:
SJAB1958 <balfres@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1189666405.078913.38970@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
On 9 Sep, 20:40, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:38:09 -0500, in alt.atheism
duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in
<eri8e3tied9et6om8tvtodnl49jca2g...@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 12:42:07 -0500, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us>
wrote:
Pope blasts Europeans for not having enough children
How many children does he have?
The Pope is celibate for the good of the kingdom of God
Hogwash. Celibacy is a relatively recent invention of the Roman Catholic
Church. It was about power, control and money. Learn some history of
your church before you make up stories.
Children are an overflow of love between man and wife.
I guess you never took biology or sex education in Jr. High.
Actually celibacy was common in the early Christian Church because
they believed that the second coming was imminent, and monastic orders
(with their vows of celibacy) have existed in the Christian Church
from at least the 3rd Century AD. Therefore celibacy is not a recent
invention of the Roman Catholic Church.
They don't seem to be able to practice it that well either..... in Ireland
the village idiot was often refered to as 'The Priests *****', no doubt a
reference to the disability being a punishment for the sin of the parents.
A recent documentary about a very well known and respected priest there
revealled he had two kids by his 'housekeeper', an ex-drug addict he took up
with when she was a teenager. He was quite famous for his preaching to young
people about the need for chatsity and waiting until marriage to have sex.
He even 'opened' for the Pope on one of his visits to Ireleand. He did try
to get help for his 'problem' but his bishop just told him to get his act
together and sin no more. His bishop was one Bishop Casey, who was also
revealled to have fathered a child....
I thought it was "Go and sin some more".
--
Pro-Choice is Pro-Freedom
Every illegal alien is a criminal.
No amnesty under any name or for any reason.
Deportation upon identification, not work permit or citizenship.
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| User: "Dan Clore" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
14 Sep 2007 04:44:44 AM |
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brique wrote:
SJAB1958 <balfres@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1189666405.078913.38970@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
On 9 Sep, 20:40, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:38:09 -0500, in alt.atheism
duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in
<eri8e3tied9et6om8tvtodnl49jca2g...@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 12:42:07 -0500, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us>
wrote:
Pope blasts Europeans for not having enough children
How many children does he have?
The Pope is celibate for the good of the kingdom of God
Hogwash. Celibacy is a relatively recent invention of the Roman Catholic
Church. It was about power, control and money. Learn some history of
your church before you make up stories.
Children are an overflow of love between man and wife.
I guess you never took biology or sex education in Jr. High.
Actually celibacy was common in the early Christian Church because
they believed that the second coming was imminent, and monastic orders
(with their vows of celibacy) have existed in the Christian Church
from at least the 3rd Century AD. Therefore celibacy is not a recent
invention of the Roman Catholic Church.
They don't seem to be able to practice it that well either..... in Ireland
the village idiot was often refered to as 'The Priests *****', no doubt a
reference to the disability being a punishment for the sin of the parents.
A recent documentary about a very well known and respected priest there
revealled he had two kids by his 'housekeeper', an ex-drug addict he took up
with when she was a teenager. He was quite famous for his preaching to young
people about the need for chatsity and waiting until marriage to have sex.
He even 'opened' for the Pope on one of his visits to Ireleand. He did try
to get help for his 'problem' but his bishop just told him to get his act
together and sin no more. His bishop was one Bishop Casey, who was also
revealled to have fathered a child....
Celibacy means not getting married. It doesn't mean not having sex.
That's chastity. Please remember to maintain this distinction when
making comments about Roman Catholics and their hypocritical sins. And,
really, the examples you mention clearly should be given a break, as
they at least don't go after the choirboys and such.
--
Dan Clore
My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
http://tinyurl.com/3akhhr
Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/clorebeast/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind.
-- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
14 Sep 2007 06:31:34 AM |
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"Dan Clore" <clore@columbia-center.org> wrote
snip
Celibacy means not getting married. It doesn't mean not having sex.
Actually, it means both:
cel·i·ba·cy
NOUN:
1.. Abstinence from sexual intercourse, especially by reason of religious
vows.
2.. The condition of being unmarried.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "brique" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
14 Sep 2007 11:59:16 AM |
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Dan Clore <clore@columbia-center.org> wrote in message
news:5kv3gpF5mclbU1@mid.individual.net...
brique wrote:
SJAB1958 <balfres@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1189666405.078913.38970@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
On 9 Sep, 20:40, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:38:09 -0500, in alt.atheism
duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in
<eri8e3tied9et6om8tvtodnl49jca2g...@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 12:42:07 -0500, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us>
wrote:
Pope blasts Europeans for not having enough children
How many children does he have?
The Pope is celibate for the good of the kingdom of God
Hogwash. Celibacy is a relatively recent invention of the Roman
Catholic
Church. It was about power, control and money. Learn some history of
your church before you make up stories.
Children are an overflow of love between man and wife.
I guess you never took biology or sex education in Jr. High.
Actually celibacy was common in the early Christian Church because
they believed that the second coming was imminent, and monastic orders
(with their vows of celibacy) have existed in the Christian Church
from at least the 3rd Century AD. Therefore celibacy is not a recent
invention of the Roman Catholic Church.
They don't seem to be able to practice it that well either..... in
Ireland
the village idiot was often refered to as 'The Priests *****', no
doubt a
reference to the disability being a punishment for the sin of the
parents.
A recent documentary about a very well known and respected priest there
revealled he had two kids by his 'housekeeper', an ex-drug addict he
took up
with when she was a teenager. He was quite famous for his preaching to
young
people about the need for chatsity and waiting until marriage to have
sex.
He even 'opened' for the Pope on one of his visits to Ireleand. He did
try
to get help for his 'problem' but his bishop just told him to get his
act
together and sin no more. His bishop was one Bishop Casey, who was also
revealled to have fathered a child....
Celibacy means not getting married. It doesn't mean not having sex.
That's chastity. Please remember to maintain this distinction when
making comments about Roman Catholics and their hypocritical sins. And,
really, the examples you mention clearly should be given a break, as
they at least don't go after the choirboys and such.
For the catholics, the two are the same, as sex outside of wedlock is a sin,
thus celibacy implicitly means chastity as well. The case of the Irish
priest is instructive as he was a highly respected and popular priest who
regularily appeared on Irish TV and radio expounding the churches position
on no sex outside of marriage, especially this message was directed at young
people and he was considered very successful at putting the message across
to them. That he was engaged in such a relationship outside of marriage and
had two children ( one was fostered out, the other lived with him and the
'housekeeper' but was never acknowledged as his until after his death)....
So, hypocrisy is a fair charge to make.
But yes, it would appear the choirboys were safe....:-)
--
Dan Clore
My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
http://tinyurl.com/3akhhr
Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/clorebeast/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind.
-- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
09 Sep 2007 10:22:49 PM |
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On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:40:40 -0500, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us>
wrote:
Hogwash. Celibacy is a relatively recent invention of the Roman Catholic
Church. It was about power, control and money.
Mainly about Popes not having sons to leave the Papacy to. Even
so-called men of God can't be trusted.
.
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| User: "•R L Measures" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
10 Sep 2007 05:50:19 AM |
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In article <82e9e3phhh6nms1v2cme3cucvcdsndltk1@4ax.com>, Al Klein
<rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:40:40 -0500, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us>
wrote:
Hogwash. Celibacy is a relatively recent invention of the Roman Catholic
Church. It was about power, control and money.
Mainly about Popes not having sons to leave the Papacy to. Even
so-called men of God can't be trusted.
** Indeed. A more accurate term for holy men is holey men. Men of God
can be trusted to either be giving girls, or boys, or both, the prod.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
10 Sep 2007 05:50:10 AM |
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On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 23:22:49 -0400, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:40:40 -0500, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us>
wrote:
Hogwash. Celibacy is a relatively recent invention of the Roman Catholic
Church. It was about power, control and money.
Mainly about Popes not having sons to leave the Papacy to. Even
so-called men of God can't be trusted.
Hey, twice dead, don't you know that Popes don't assign their replacements.
They're dead when the new assignment is made.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "•R L Measures" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
10 Sep 2007 10:11:03 AM |
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In article <698ae35hqbonjudl0m0naq2renq8g4jtqi@4ax.com>, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 23:22:49 -0400, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:40:40 -0500, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us>
wrote:
Hogwash. Celibacy is a relatively recent invention of the Roman Catholic
Church. It was about power, control and money.
Mainly about Popes not having sons to leave the Papacy to. Even
so-called men of God can't be trusted.
Hey, twice dead, don't you know that Popes don't assign their replacements.
They're dead when the new assignment is made.
** "Unlearned in history, they allow themselves to be governed by the
Unknown Past."
Historian John Acton
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
10 Sep 2007 05:36:49 PM |
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On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 08:11:03 -0700, (•R L Measures) wrote:
In article <698ae35hqbonjudl0m0naq2renq8g4jtqi@4ax.com>, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 23:22:49 -0400, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:40:40 -0500, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us>
wrote:
Hogwash. Celibacy is a relatively recent invention of the Roman Catholic
Church. It was about power, control and money.
Mainly about Popes not having sons to leave the Papacy to. Even
so-called men of God can't be trusted.
Hey, twice dead, don't you know that Popes don't assign their replacements.
They're dead when the new assignment is made.
** "Unlearned in history, they allow themselves to be governed by the
Unknown Past."
Historian John Acton
And the cardinals elect the next pope.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "•R L Measures" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
10 Sep 2007 06:00:02 PM |
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In article <fnhbe35tplicq1n60l9cr261hncjuqglj6@4ax.com>, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 08:11:03 -0700, (•R L Measures) wrote:
In article <698ae35hqbonjudl0m0naq2renq8g4jtqi@4ax.com>, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 23:22:49 -0400, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:40:40 -0500, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us>
wrote:
Hogwash. Celibacy is a relatively recent invention of the Roman Catholic
Church. It was about power, control and money.
Mainly about Popes not having sons to leave the Papacy to. Even
so-called men of God can't be trusted.
Hey, twice dead, don't you know that Popes don't assign their replacements.
They're dead when the new assignment is made.
** "Unlearned in history, they allow themselves to be governed by the
Unknown Past."
Historian John Acton
And the cardinals elect the next pope.
• Was there ever a time when popes were elected for political reasons?
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
11 Sep 2007 05:32:55 AM |
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On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 16:00:02 -0700, (•R L Measures) wrote:
And the cardinals elect the next pope.
• Was there ever a time when popes were elected for political reasons?
Quite likely. Seeing as they were also the leader of the free world.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "•R L Measures" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
11 Sep 2007 09:43:11 AM |
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In article <dlrce31ijvhgk1d883ahjaidgpj2mf6h95@4ax.com>, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 16:00:02 -0700, (•R L Measures) wrote:
And the cardinals elect the next pope.
• Was there ever a time when popes were elected for political reasons?
Quite likely. Seeing as they were also the leader of the free world.
• The de Medici popes ruled the one true church before there was a free world.
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
11 Sep 2007 01:35:15 PM |
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On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 07:43:11 -0700, (•R L Measures) wrote:
In article <dlrce31ijvhgk1d883ahjaidgpj2mf6h95@4ax.com>, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 16:00:02 -0700, (•R L Measures) wrote:
And the cardinals elect the next pope.
• Was there ever a time when popes were elected for political reasons?
Quite likely. Seeing as they were also the leader of the free world.
• The de Medici popes ruled the one true church before there was a free world.
Was the world in jail?
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "•R L Measures" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
12 Sep 2007 04:20:19 AM |
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In article <kunde3pdugnpbmc0piajl1qv2500279nf5@4ax.com>, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 07:43:11 -0700, (•R L Measures) wrote:
In article <dlrce31ijvhgk1d883ahjaidgpj2mf6h95@4ax.com>, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 16:00:02 -0700, (•R L Measures) wrote:
And the cardinals elect the next pope.
• Was there ever a time when popes were elected for political reasons?
Quite likely. Seeing as they were also the leader of the free world.
• The de Medici popes ruled the one true church before there was a
free world.
Was the world in jail?
• In those times, countries were typically ruled by one man or one woman
who often claimed to rule by divine right, who was quite often in cahoots
with His Holiness. The United States was unique for some time.
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
12 Sep 2007 04:43:24 PM |
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On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 02:20:19 -0700, (•R L Measures) wrote:
• The de Medici popes ruled the one true church before there was a
free world.
Was the world in jail?
• In those times, countries were typically ruled by one man or one woman
who often claimed to rule by divine right, who was quite often in cahoots
with His Holiness. The United States was unique for some time.
Hey, the king knew where his bread was buttered with God.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "•R L Measures" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
13 Sep 2007 04:04:54 AM |
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In article <5ange3tupu24ljr2hq4j227leh6o30o799@4ax.com>, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 02:20:19 -0700, (•R L Measures) wrote:
• The de Medici popes ruled the one true church before there was a
free world.
Was the world in jail?
• In those times, countries were typically ruled by one man or one woman
who often claimed to rule by divine right, who was quite often in cahoots
with His Holiness. The United States was unique for some time.
Hey, the king knew where his bread was buttered with God.
• God is into politics ?
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
13 Sep 2007 03:14:38 PM |
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On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 02:04:54 -0700, (•R L Measures) in
alt.abortion with message-id <r-1309070204540001@192.168.1.101> wrote:
In article <5ange3tupu24ljr2hq4j227leh6o30o799@4ax.com>, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 02:20:19 -0700, (•R L Measures) wrote:
• The de Medici popes ruled the one true church before there was a
free world.
Was the world in jail?
• In those times, countries were typically ruled by one man or one woman
who often claimed to rule by divine right, who was quite often in cahoots
with His Holiness. The United States was unique for some time.
Hey, the king knew where his bread was buttered with God.
• God is into politics ?
Churches are. Politics and money.
--
Pro-Choice is Pro-Freedom
Every illegal alien is a criminal.
No amnesty under any name or for any reason.
Deportation upon identification, not work permit or citizenship.
.
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| User: "•R L Measures" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
13 Sep 2007 09:20:01 PM |
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In article <jg6je3lveosd99mkeid50c5hv0n9hm15o1@4ax.com>, Attila
<<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 02:04:54 -0700, (•R L Measures) in
alt.abortion with message-id <r-1309070204540001@192.168.1.101> wrote:
In article <5ange3tupu24ljr2hq4j227leh6o30o799@4ax.com>, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 02:20:19 -0700, (•R L Measures) wrote:
• The de Medici popes ruled the one true church before there was a
free world.
Was the world in jail?
• In those times, countries were typically ruled by one man or one woman
who often claimed to rule by divine right, who was quite often in cahoots
with His Holiness. The United States was unique for some time.
Hey, the king knew where his bread was buttered with God.
• God is into politics ?
Churches are. Politics and money.
• Indeed.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
13 Sep 2007 03:16:38 PM |
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On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 02:04:54 -0700, (•R L Measures) wrote:
In article <5ange3tupu24ljr2hq4j227leh6o30o799@4ax.com>, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 02:20:19 -0700, (•R L Measures) wrote:
• The de Medici popes ruled the one true church before there was a
free world.
Was the world in jail?
• In those times, countries were typically ruled by one man or one woman
who often claimed to rule by divine right, who was quite often in cahoots
with His Holiness. The United States was unique for some time.
Hey, the king knew where his bread was buttered with God.
• God is into politics ?
The Pope is always a man.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "•R L Measures" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
13 Sep 2007 09:23:09 PM |
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In article <9k6je3hrqg248jedkofrbgfhcvc1k8n8a5@4ax.com>, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 02:04:54 -0700, (•R L Measures) wrote:
In article <5ange3tupu24ljr2hq4j227leh6o30o799@4ax.com>, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 02:20:19 -0700, (•R L Measures) wrote:
• The de Medici popes ruled the one true church before there was a
free world.
Was the world in jail?
• In those times, countries were typically ruled by one man or one woman
who often claimed to rule by divine right, who was quite often in cahoots
with His Holiness. The United States was unique for some time.
Hey, the king knew where his bread was buttered with God.
• God is into politics ?
The Pope is always a man.
• A man who represents God on this planet - who is infallible in matters
of ethics and morals ?
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
14 Sep 2007 07:23:28 AM |
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On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 19:23:09 -0700, (•R L Measures) wrote:
Hey, the king knew where his bread was buttered with God.
• God is into politics ?
The Pope is always a man.
• A man who represents God on this planet - who is infallible in matters
of ethics and morals ?
1. The Ambassador does not have any authority.
2. That's faith and morals.
3. And that's "can" speak infallibly on said subjects.
4. And has only done so twice.
5. And only involving the Blessed Virgin Mary.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "•R L Measures" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
14 Sep 2007 09:54:57 AM |
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In article <n3vke3hr5074h5ptphmunn2i0pgj1am21q@4ax.com>, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 19:23:09 -0700, (•R L Measures) wrote:
Hey, the king knew where his bread was buttered with God.
• God is into politics ?
The Pope is always a man.
• A man who represents God on this planet - who is infallible in matters
of ethics and morals ?
1. The Ambassador does not have any authority.
• He's supposedly the factory rep.
2. That's faith and morals.
3. And that's "can" speak infallibly on said subjects.
4. And has only done so twice.
• 1950 and _____ ?
5. And only involving the Blessed Virgin Mary.
• If popes have the straight dope, why did it take 'em 19-centuries to
figure out that a Jewess got beamed up to the Happy Place ?
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
11 Sep 2007 02:52:29 PM |
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On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 13:35:15 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<kunde3pdugnpbmc0piajl1qv2500279nf5@4ax.com> wrote:
On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 07:43:11 -0700, (•R L Measures) wrote:
In article <dlrce31ijvhgk1d883ahjaidgpj2mf6h95@4ax.com>, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 16:00:02 -0700, (•R L Measures) wrote:
And the cardinals elect the next pope.
• Was there ever a time when popes were elected for political reasons?
Quite likely. Seeing as they were also the leader of the free world.
• The de Medici popes ruled the one true church before there was a free world.
Was the world in jail?
A prison of ignorance and superstition.
--
Pro-Choice is Pro-Freedom
Every illegal alien is a criminal.
No amnesty under any name or for any reason.
Deportation upon identification, not work permit or citizenship.
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
12 Sep 2007 04:42:21 PM |
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On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 15:52:29 -0400, Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
Quite likely. Seeing as they were also the leader of the free world.
• The de Medici popes ruled the one true church before there was a free world.
Was the world in jail?
A prison of ignorance and superstition.
Then you're referring to yourself in a closet.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
11 Sep 2007 09:20:05 AM |
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On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 05:32:55 -0500, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<dlrce31ijvhgk1d883ahjaidgpj2mf6h95@4ax.com> wrote:
On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 16:00:02 -0700, (•R L Measures) wrote:
And the cardinals elect the next pope.
• Was there ever a time when popes were elected for political reasons?
Quite likely. Seeing as they were also the leader of the free world.
In your dreams. They could not lead a dog to a dead horse.
--
Pro-Choice is Pro-Freedom
Every illegal alien is a criminal.
No amnesty under any name or for any reason.
Deportation upon identification, not work permit or citizenship.
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Blasts Selfish Europeans For Not Having Enough Children |
11 Sep 2007 01:34:52 PM |
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On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 10:20:05 -0400, Attila <<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
And the cardinals elect the next pope.
• Was there ever a time when popes were elected for political reasons?
Quite likely. Seeing as they were also the leader of the free world.
In your dreams. They could not lead a dog to a dead horse.
Yet they were the leaders of the free world.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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