| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Auric Hellman" |
| Date: |
23 Jan 2005 03:28:12 PM |
| Object: |
Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29404-2005Jan22.html
Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS
Church Doctrine on Abstinence Affirmed
By Daniel Williams
Washington Post Foreign Service
Sunday, January 23, 2005; Page A23
ROME, Jan. 22 -- After several days of unusual public debate among
senior figures in the Roman Catholic Church, Pope John Paul II on
Saturday reaffirmed church teaching that urges abstinence and marital
fidelity to stop the spread of AIDS and forbids condoms.
"The Holy See . . . considers that it is necessary above all to combat
this disease in a responsible way by increasing prevention, notably
through education about respect of the sacred value of life and
formation of the correct practice of sexuality, which presupposes
chastity and fidelity."
In the Vatican's teaching, phrases such as "sacred value of life" and
"correct practice of sexuality" generally preclude contraception.
His words followed a week in which a high official of Spain's Bishops
Conference said there was "a place" for condoms in AIDS prevention, but
then was overruled by the full Bishops Conference, and other leaders
weighed in to suggest publicly that a policy change might be
appropriate.
In recent days, the pope has also stressed the role of Catholic health
workers in tending to the AIDS-stricken. "At my request, the church has
mobilized in favor of the victims and especially in order to assure
access to help and the necessary medical care through a number of
treatment centers," he said. He was referring to the Holy See's Good
Samaritan Foundation, established last year to coordinate funds and
organizations to help AIDS victims.
The Vatican has depicted contraception as part of an attack on the
"culture of life" because it blocks the creation of children. On
Saturday, John Paul II also repeated the Vatican's condemnation of
euthanasia, which the Netherlands has legalized and which in the
pontiff's view is an example of the "culture of death."
"The Holy See has made known its clear position and invites Catholics
in the Netherlands always to show their absolute respect for human
life, from conception to natural death," the pope said in the
statement.
Pope Paul VI banned the use of contraception 37 years ago, and at that
time the issue was almost entirely birth control. Ever since, high
church officials have considered the question largely to be closed. But
the AIDS pandemic has led to calls from some corners of the global
church for authorizing at least one form of contraception -- condoms --
as a means of preventing HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, from
spreading.
Two cardinals in Europe this week separately spoke of a hypothetical
situation in which use of a condom might be justified: when a woman
must have sex with someone who is infected with HIV and therefore must
protect herself.
And in Mexico City, a bishop said at a news conference Friday that
condom use could be a "lesser evil" if employed to prevent AIDS. "If
someone is incapable of controlling their instincts . . . then they
should do whatever is necessary in order not to infect others," said
Felipe Arizmendi, bishop of San Cristobal de las Casas, in far southern
Mexico.
The comments followed months of ferment in the church over how to
approach AIDS prevention. Last year, the Catholic Agency for Overseas
Development (CAFOD) published a paper urging a range of methods to
fight AIDS.
"For many in Africa and Asia, sex is often the only commodity people
have to exchange for food, school fees, exam results, employment or
survival itself in situations of violence," the paper said. "Any
strategy that enables a person to move from a higher-risk towards the
lower end of the continuum, CAFOD believes, is a valid risk reduction
strategy."
Vatican officials have said that in the field some individual priests
or health care workers might see fit to counsel use of condoms in
particular cases. But the officials emphasized that such instances did
not represent a change in teaching.
"The problem is that anytime we try to give a nuanced response, we see
headlines that say, 'Vatican approves condoms.' The issue is more
complicated than that," Monsignor Angel Rodriguez Luno, a professor of
moral theology at the Pontifical University of the Holy Cross, said on
Friday. "From a moral point of view, we cannot condone contraception.
We cannot tell a classroom of 16-year-olds they should use condoms.
"But if we are dealing with someone or a situation in which clearly
persons are going to act in harmful ways, say, a prostitute who is
going to continue her activities, then one might say, 'Stop. But if you
are not going to, at least do this,' " said Luno, who is an adviser to
the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, a Vatican department
charged with safeguarding orthodoxy.
One possible avenue for a new condom policy would be a
"lesser-of-two-evils" approach. In this regard, condoms could be
approved as a means of reducing the instance of danger or sin in cases
where someone is bent on having extramarital sex or sex with a spouse
while infected with HIV.
Rodriguez Luno -- without endorsing a new policy -- placed the issue in
the context of the Ten Commandments. Sex outside of marriage already
breaks the Sixth Commandment, which forbids adultery, he said.
"Infecting someone with AIDS would also mean sinning against the Fifth
Commandment -- you shall not kill," he said. "Condoms would diminish
that danger."
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| User: "Freedom Fighter" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
24 Jan 2005 03:44:31 PM |
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He no playa da game, he no maka da rules!
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
24 Jan 2005 08:25:23 PM |
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On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:44:31 GMT, "Freedom Fighter" <liberty@once.net>
said in alt.atheism:
He no playa da game, he no maka da rules!
Unfortunately he makes the rules for a couple of billion people.
--
"I see only with deep regret that God punishes so many of His children for their
numerous stupidities, for which only He Himself can be held responsible; in my opinion,
only His nonexistence could excuse Him."
-A. Einstein (Letter to Edgar Meyer, Jan. 2, 1915)
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
25 Jan 2005 01:08:31 AM |
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Al Klein wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:44:31 GMT, "Freedom Fighter"
<liberty@once.net>
said in alt.atheism:
He no playa da game, he no maka da rules!
Unfortunately he makes the rules for a couple of billion people.
Not quite. Maybe half that - probably less.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
23 Jan 2005 08:11:59 PM |
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On 23 Jan 2005 13:28:12 -0800, "Auric Hellman"
<adhellman@volcanomail.com> said in alt.atheism:
"The Holy See . . . considers that it is necessary above all to combat
this disease in a responsible way by increasing prevention, notably
through education about respect of the sacred value of life and
formation of the correct practice of sexuality, which presupposes
chastity and fidelity."
Translation:
Anyone who doesn't follow EXACTLY what I say can just die.
--
"If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can
solve them."
-Isaac Asimov
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Proud sponsor of the 2004 conservative mandate." |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
24 Jan 2005 01:00:44 PM |
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Al Klein wrote:
On 23 Jan 2005 13:28:12 -0800, "Auric Hellman"
<adhellman@volcanomail.com> said in alt.atheism:
"The Holy See . . . considers that it is necessary above all to
combat
this disease in a responsible way by increasing prevention, notably
through education about respect of the sacred value of life and
formation of the correct practice of sexuality, which presupposes
chastity and fidelity."
Translation:
Anyone who doesn't follow EXACTLY what I say can just die.
Doesn't this assume that adultery is not a lifestyle option? As if
condoms are 100% effective in preventing AIDS...
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
24 Jan 2005 03:15:35 PM |
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Doesn't exactly help the spouse married to the adulterer.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
24 Jan 2005 08:21:33 PM |
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On 24 Jan 2005 13:15:35 -0800, said in alt.atheism:
Doesn't exactly help the spouse married to the adulterer.
That's how must HIV is spread.
--
"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds
are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her
tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the
existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of
the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."
- Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826)
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Cod Liver" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
25 Jan 2005 09:39:11 AM |
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:i7bbv0tl9afnfp1b6er4e23e4mupfbgilr@4ax.com...
On 24 Jan 2005 13:15:35 -0800, said in alt.atheism:
Doesn't exactly help the spouse married to the adulterer.
That's how must HIV is spread.
--
MOST?
cite please
whit
"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds
are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her
tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the
existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of
the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."
- Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826)
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
25 Jan 2005 05:29:14 PM |
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On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 15:39:11 GMT, "Cod Liver" <oil@hotmail.com> said
in alt.atheism:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:i7bbv0tl9afnfp1b6er4e23e4mupfbgilr@4ax.com...
On 24 Jan 2005 13:15:35 -0800, said in alt.atheism:
Doesn't exactly help the spouse married to the adulterer.
That's how must HIV is spread.
MOST?
Yes, sorry.
cite please
Many stories (no links, sorry) about how it's spread in Africa and the
Indian sub-continent, which is where most of it is spread.
--
"A truly unselfish act would be a Christian volunteering to have his soul take your
soul's place in hell, so yours could go to Heaven. Don't hold your breath."
- John Popelish
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Instig" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
25 Jan 2005 06:01:05 PM |
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:fgldv0d5rcr86oamlq6hs5e4a76rrs67pr@4ax.com...
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 15:39:11 GMT, "Cod Liver" <oil@hotmail.com> said
in alt.atheism:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:i7bbv0tl9afnfp1b6er4e23e4mupfbgilr@4ax.com...
On 24 Jan 2005 13:15:35 -0800, said in alt.atheism:
Doesn't exactly help the spouse married to the adulterer.
That's how must HIV is spread.
MOST?
Yes, sorry.
cite please
Many stories (no links, sorry) about how it's spread in Africa and the
Indian sub-continent, which is where most of it is spread.
--
my bad.
i had a ameri-centric view, and was assuming you were talking about in the
USA
i know that in the US most (especially per capita within respective
groupings) is NOT spread by adulterous spouses, but is spread by male/male
sex and by needle sharing
in africa? might be. i don't know
whit
"A truly unselfish act would be a Christian volunteering to have his soul
take your
soul's place in hell, so yours could go to Heaven. Don't hold your
breath."
- John Popelish
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
24 Jan 2005 03:28:29 PM |
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On 24 Jan 2005 13:15:35 -0800, wrote:
Doesn't exactly help the spouse married to the adulterer.
Maybe the Pope has moved to the Green Beret motto of "Kill 'em all and
let God sort them out"?
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
24 Jan 2005 05:53:23 PM |
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wrote:
On 24 Jan 2005 13:15:35 -0800, wrote:
Doesn't exactly help the spouse married to the adulterer.
Maybe the Pope has moved to the Green Beret motto of "Kill 'em all
and
let God sort them out"?
Or, Heaven forbid, he doesn't want to promote sinful behavior.
Which begs the question, why would an adulterer not wear a condom?
"I know the Pope teaches adultery is sin but I'll do it anyway. I'll
abide by his teachings about condoms though because I'm a good Catholic
while I'm sinning."
It's the liberal mindset. "Hey everyone, turn in your in your guns. Yes
you criminals, that means you too."
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
24 Jan 2005 08:22:11 PM |
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On 24 Jan 2005 15:53:23 -0800, said in
alt.atheism:
retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
On 24 Jan 2005 13:15:35 -0800, wrote:
Doesn't exactly help the spouse married to the adulterer.
Maybe the Pope has moved to the Green Beret motto of "Kill 'em all and
let God sort them out"?
Or, Heaven forbid, he doesn't want to promote sinful behavior.
He wants to prevent sinful behavior even among those who don't believe
in sin. Very nice of him, forcing his beliefs on others.
--
"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my
contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him, the
spinal cord would fully suffice."
- Albert Einstein
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
25 Jan 2005 12:25:47 AM |
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Al Klein wrote:
On 24 Jan 2005 15:53:23 -0800, said in
alt.atheism:
retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
On 24 Jan 2005 13:15:35 -0800, wrote:
Doesn't exactly help the spouse married to the adulterer.
Maybe the Pope has moved to the Green Beret motto of "Kill 'em all
and
let God sort them out"?
Or, Heaven forbid, he doesn't want to promote sinful behavior.
He wants to prevent sinful behavior even among those who don't
believe
in sin. Very nice of him, forcing his beliefs on others.
I'm sure the Catholic Condom Cops are going to begin inspections any
minute now - with fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost
fanatical devotion to the Pope, and nice red uniforms.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
24 Jan 2005 08:24:25 PM |
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On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 13:28:29 -0800, said in
alt.atheism:
On 24 Jan 2005 13:15:35 -0800, wrote:
Doesn't exactly help the spouse married to the adulterer.
Maybe the Pope has moved to the Green Beret motto of "Kill 'em all and
let God sort them out"?
The GBs plagiarized that from Christianity.
--
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he
unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand."
-- Bertrand Russell.
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
24 Jan 2005 03:23:05 PM |
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On 24 Jan 2005 11:00:44 -0800, "Proud sponsor of the 2004 conservative
mandate." <caddyshack_al@my-deja.com> said in alt.atheism:
Al Klein wrote:
On 23 Jan 2005 13:28:12 -0800, "Auric Hellman"
<adhellman@volcanomail.com> said in alt.atheism:
"The Holy See . . . considers that it is necessary above all to combat
this disease in a responsible way by increasing prevention, notably
through education about respect of the sacred value of life and
formation of the correct practice of sexuality, which presupposes
chastity and fidelity."
Translation:
Anyone who doesn't follow EXACTLY what I say can just die.
Doesn't this assume that adultery is not a lifestyle option?
"which presupposes chastity and fidelity"
As if condoms are 100% effective in preventing AIDS...
Condoms are not less effective in preventing AIDS than are no condoms.
That's the only actual claim made by science. Studies suggest certain
effectiveness figures, but not a single study found that one is MORE
apt to contract AIDS when using a new condom than when not using one.
--
There are three kinds of men:
The ones that learn by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence.
- (Will Rogers)
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
24 Jan 2005 06:06:15 PM |
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Al Klein wrote:
On 24 Jan 2005 11:00:44 -0800, "Proud sponsor of the 2004
conservative
mandate." <caddyshack_al@my-deja.com> said in alt.atheism:
Al Klein wrote:
On 23 Jan 2005 13:28:12 -0800, "Auric Hellman"
<adhellman@volcanomail.com> said in alt.atheism:
"The Holy See . . . considers that it is necessary above all to
combat
this disease in a responsible way by increasing prevention,
notably
through education about respect of the sacred value of life and
formation of the correct practice of sexuality, which presupposes
chastity and fidelity."
Translation:
Anyone who doesn't follow EXACTLY what I say can just die.
Doesn't this assume that adultery is not a lifestyle option?
"which presupposes chastity and fidelity"
Which is impossibility for most.
Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the
road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is
the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find
it. Matt 7:13-14
As if condoms are 100% effective in preventing AIDS...
Condoms are not less effective in preventing AIDS than are no
condoms.
That's the only actual claim made by science. Studies suggest
certain
effectiveness figures, but not a single study found that one is MORE
apt to contract AIDS when using a new condom than when not using one.
Do you suspect a study of men and women that ate ham before sex would
have a similar result? Why pick on (just) the Catholics?
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| User: "L. Michael Roberts" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
24 Jan 2005 09:34:02 PM |
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wrote:
Al Klein wrote:
On 24 Jan 2005 11:00:44 -0800, "Proud sponsor of the 2004
conservative
mandate." < > said in alt.atheism:
Al Klein wrote:
On 23 Jan 2005 13:28:12 -0800, "Auric Hellman"
<adhellman@volcanomail.com> said in alt.atheism:
<snip>
That's the only actual claim made by science. Studies suggest
certain
effectiveness figures, but not a single study found that one is MORE
apt to contract AIDS when using a new condom than when not using one.
Do you suspect a study of men and women that ate ham before sex would
have a similar result? Why pick on (just) the Catholics?
[a] Who is picking just on Catholics? You are not bearing false
witness are you?
[b] When Catholics, in the form of the pope, bring their chosen
religious behaviours into the public square and insist that others abide
by them, those beliefs are subject to public debate and ridicule. If
Catholics don't want their beliefs debated and ridiculed, they should
tell their representatives to keep out of the public square and civil
politics.
--
+==================== L. Michael Roberts ======================+
This represents my personal opinion and NOT Company policy
Goderich, Ont, Canada. To reply, post a request for my valid E-mail
"Life is a sexually transmitted, terminal, condition"
+================================================================+
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
25 Jan 2005 01:03:29 AM |
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L. Michael Roberts wrote:
caddyshack_al@my-deja.com wrote:
Al Klein wrote:
On 24 Jan 2005 11:00:44 -0800, "Proud sponsor of the 2004
conservative
mandate." <caddyshack_al@my-deja.com> said in alt.atheism:
Al Klein wrote:
On 23 Jan 2005 13:28:12 -0800, "Auric Hellman"
<adhellman@volcanomail.com> said in alt.atheism:
<snip>
That's the only actual claim made by science. Studies suggest
certain
effectiveness figures, but not a single study found that one is
MORE
apt to contract AIDS when using a new condom than when not using
one.
Do you suspect a study of men and women that ate ham before sex
would
have a similar result? Why pick on (just) the Catholics?
[a] Who is picking just on Catholics? You are not bearing false
witness are you?
This thread isn't picking on Catholics either rightly or wrongly? My
beef currently is with orientals and their aversion to dairy products.
I'm sure if I can get the money to do my study I can show that eating
cheese before sex has similar AIDS preventing characteristics as
condoms.
[b] When Catholics, in the form of the pope, bring their chosen
religious behaviours into the public square and insist that others
abide
by them, those beliefs are subject to public debate and ridicule.
That's not picking on them?
If
Catholics don't want their beliefs debated and ridiculed, they should
tell their representatives to keep out of the public square and civil
politics.
You're preaching to the choir. I've been making fun of liberals on
usenet for a long time.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
25 Jan 2005 05:32:18 PM |
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On 24 Jan 2005 23:03:29 -0800, said in
alt.atheism:
This thread isn't picking on Catholics either rightly or wrongly? My
beef currently is with orientals and their aversion to dairy products.
It's not an aversion, it's a physical intolerance.
[b] When Catholics, in the form of the pope, bring their chosen
religious behaviours into the public square and insist that others abide
by them, those beliefs are subject to public debate and ridicule.
That's not picking on them?
If you choose to do something, suffering for doing it is being picked
on?
--
"To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains
premature today."
- Isaac Asimov
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
25 Jan 2005 05:43:18 PM |
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On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 23:32:18 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On 24 Jan 2005 23:03:29 -0800, said in
alt.atheism:
This thread isn't picking on Catholics either rightly or wrongly? My
beef currently is with orientals and their aversion to dairy products.
It's not an aversion, it's a physical intolerance.
Adults able to digest milk and dairy products, is a comparatively
recent Northern European mutation.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
25 Jan 2005 06:54:37 PM |
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On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 18:43:18 -0500, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> said in alt.atheism:
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 23:32:18 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On 24 Jan 2005 23:03:29 -0800, said in
alt.atheism:
This thread isn't picking on Catholics either rightly or wrongly? My
beef currently is with orientals and their aversion to dairy products.
It's not an aversion, it's a physical intolerance.
Adults able to digest milk and dairy products, is a comparatively
recent Northern European mutation.
The fundies are going to think you meant within the past few hundred
years.
--
Zymurgist # 2
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
25 Jan 2005 06:58:42 PM |
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On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 00:54:37 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 18:43:18 -0500, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> said in alt.atheism:
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 23:32:18 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On 24 Jan 2005 23:03:29 -0800, said in
alt.atheism:
This thread isn't picking on Catholics either rightly or wrongly? My
beef currently is with orientals and their aversion to dairy products.
It's not an aversion, it's a physical intolerance.
Adults able to digest milk and dairy products, is a comparatively
recent Northern European mutation.
The fundies are going to think you meant within the past few hundred
years.
True. But it's not that many thousand.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
25 Jan 2005 01:06:22 AM |
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L. Michael Roberts wrote:
caddyshack_al@my-deja.com wrote:
Al Klein wrote:
On 24 Jan 2005 11:00:44 -0800, "Proud sponsor of the 2004
conservative
mandate." <caddyshack_al@my-deja.com> said in alt.atheism:
Al Klein wrote:
On 23 Jan 2005 13:28:12 -0800, "Auric Hellman"
<adhellman@volcanomail.com> said in alt.atheism:
<snip>
That's the only actual claim made by science. Studies suggest
certain
effectiveness figures, but not a single study found that one is
MORE
apt to contract AIDS when using a new condom than when not using
one.
Do you suspect a study of men and women that ate ham before sex
would
have a similar result? Why pick on (just) the Catholics?
[a] Who is picking just on Catholics? You are not bearing false
witness are you?
This thread isn't picking on Catholics either rightly or wrongly? My
beef currently is with orientals and their aversion to dairy products.
I'm sure if I can get the money to do my study I can show that eating
cheese before sex has similar AIDS preventing characteristics as
condoms.
[b] When Catholics, in the form of the pope, bring their chosen
religious behaviours into the public square and insist that others
abide
by them, those beliefs are subject to public debate and ridicule.
That's not picking on them?
If
Catholics don't want their beliefs debated and ridiculed, they should
tell their representatives to keep out of the public square and civil
politics.
You're preaching to the choir. I've been making fun of liberals on
usenet for a long time.
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| User: "Bonnie Bitch" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
25 Jan 2005 03:19:17 AM |
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On 24 Jan 2005 23:06:22 -0800, wrote:
I've been making fun of liberals on
usenet for a long time.
And, ironically enough, liberals are mocking you, but in real life.
Happy FOAD --
Bonnie *****
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
25 Jan 2005 05:30:54 PM |
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On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 22:34:02 -0500, "L. Michael Roberts"
<L_Michael_Roberts@nospam.com> said in alt.atheism:
This represents my personal opinion and NOT Company policy
Goderich, Ont, Canada.
I'm just curious what you do there, and for whom. I have a friend in
Goderich. Her husband works at the mine.
--
"I have never imputed to Nature a purpose or a goal, or anything that could be under-
stood as anthropomorphic. What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can
comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of
humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism."
- 1954 or 1955; quoted in Dukas and Hoffman _Albert Einstein the Human Side_, p. 39
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Boy Toy" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
25 Jan 2005 08:44:11 PM |
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On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 22:34:02 -0500, "L. Michael Roberts"
<L_Michael_Roberts@nospam.com> wrote in message
<Ft-dnU-BCdW3I2jcRVn-gQ@golden.net>
caddyshack_al@my-deja.com wrote:
Al Klein wrote:
On 24 Jan 2005 11:00:44 -0800, "Proud sponsor of the 2004
conservative
mandate." <caddyshack_al@my-deja.com> said in alt.atheism:
Al Klein wrote:
On 23 Jan 2005 13:28:12 -0800, "Auric Hellman"
<adhellman@volcanomail.com> said in alt.atheism:
<snip>
That's the only actual claim made by science. Studies suggest
certain
effectiveness figures, but not a single study found that one is MORE
apt to contract AIDS when using a new condom than when not using one.
Do you suspect a study of men and women that ate ham before sex would
have a similar result? Why pick on (just) the Catholics?
[a] Who is picking just on Catholics? You are not bearing false
witness are you?
[b] When Catholics, in the form of the pope, bring their chosen
religious behaviours into the public square and insist that others abide
by them, those beliefs are subject to public debate and ridicule. If
Catholics don't want their beliefs debated and ridiculed, they should
tell their representatives to keep out of the public square and civil
politics.
Actually, I have a real problem with this papal infallibity business
myself.
Oh well, when he dies, things will change, eternal sins will
eventually cease to be eternal sins anymore (imagine that: I guess
they can just redefine "eternal".) The new batch will just sweep
these prior edicts from the infallible representative of god under the
carpet, all the while trying to deny responsibility for the millions
(if not billions) of lives destroyed as a result of their actions.
Instead, they will come up with a whole new set of nonsense. And
proclaim it to be yet another eternal truth. Ah yes, eternal (or
until the next pope croaks, whichever comes first.)
--
Boy Toy
Toxic Toyz 4 Nasty Boyz
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| User: "Auric Hellman" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
26 Jan 2005 12:03:38 AM |
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Boy Toy wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 22:34:02 -0500, "L. Michael Roberts"
<L_Michael_Roberts@nospam.com> wrote in message
<Ft-dnU-BCdW3I2jcRVn-gQ@golden.net>
caddyshack_al@my-deja.com wrote:
Al Klein wrote:
On 24 Jan 2005 11:00:44 -0800, "Proud sponsor of the 2004
conservative
mandate." <caddyshack_al@my-deja.com> said in alt.atheism:
Al Klein wrote:
On 23 Jan 2005 13:28:12 -0800, "Auric Hellman"
<adhellman@volcanomail.com> said in alt.atheism:
<snip>
That's the only actual claim made by science. Studies suggest
certain
effectiveness figures, but not a single study found that one is
MORE
apt to contract AIDS when using a new condom than when not using
one.
Do you suspect a study of men and women that ate ham before sex
would
have a similar result? Why pick on (just) the Catholics?
[a] Who is picking just on Catholics? You are not bearing false
witness are you?
[b] When Catholics, in the form of the pope, bring their chosen
religious behaviours into the public square and insist that others
abide
by them, those beliefs are subject to public debate and ridicule.
If
Catholics don't want their beliefs debated and ridiculed, they
should
tell their representatives to keep out of the public square and
civil
politics.
Actually, I have a real problem with this papal infallibity business
myself.
Oh well, when he dies, things will change, eternal sins will
eventually cease to be eternal sins anymore (imagine that: I guess
they can just redefine "eternal".) The new batch will just sweep
these prior edicts from the infallible representative of god under
the
carpet, all the while trying to deny responsibility for the millions
(if not billions) of lives destroyed as a result of their actions.
Instead, they will come up with a whole new set of nonsense. And
proclaim it to be yet another eternal truth. Ah yes, eternal (or
until the next pope croaks, whichever comes first.)
--
Boy Toy
Toxic Toyz 4 Nasty Boyz
Why do gays hate the RC church so much? Who else cares for AIDS
patients like the church? Who else ministers to you when your people
fall into depression and despair? The RC church wants you to live a
long, healthy life. You cannot catch anything if you're not doing
anything. That's real love, not the "do it till you're satisfied"
attitude espoused by social liberals.
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| User: "L. Michael Roberts" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
26 Jan 2005 05:52:57 PM |
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Auric Hellman wrote:
Boy Toy wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 22:34:02 -0500, "L. Michael Roberts"
<L_Michael_Roberts@nospam.com> wrote in message
<Ft-dnU-BCdW3I2jcRVn-gQ@golden.net>
caddyshack_al@my-deja.com wrote:
Al Klein wrote:
On 24 Jan 2005 11:00:44 -0800, "Proud sponsor of the 2004
conservative
mandate." <caddyshack_al@my-deja.com> said in alt.atheism:
Al Klein wrote:
On 23 Jan 2005 13:28:12 -0800, "Auric Hellman"
<adhellman@volcanomail.com> said in alt.atheism:
<snip>
Why do gays hate the RC church so much?
Why not ask Galeleo... the "witches" burned at the stake.... the
victims of the inquisition... the Muslims "converted" at the point of
the sword during the crusades.... and all of the other recipients of
centuries of "catholic love".
<snip>
--
+==================== L. Michael Roberts ======================+
This represents my personal opinion and NOT Company policy
Goderich, Ont, Canada. To reply, post a request for my valid E-mail
"Life is a sexually transmitted, terminal, condition"
+================================================================+
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| User: "Andrealphus" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rejects Condoms As a Counter to AIDS |
26 Jan 2005 06:02:09 PM |
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L. Michael Roberts <L_Michael_Roberts@nospam.com> wrote:
Auric Hellman wrote:
Boy Toy wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 22:34:02 -0500, "L. Michael Roberts"
<L_Michael_Roberts@nospam.com> wrote in message
<Ft-dnU-BCdW3I2jcRVn-gQ@golden.net>
caddyshack_al@my-deja.com wrote:
Al Klein wrote:
On 24 Jan 2005 11:00:44 -0800, "Proud sponsor of the 2004
conservative mandate." <caddyshack_al@my-deja.com> said in
alt.atheism:
Al Klein wrote:
On 23 Jan 2005 13:28:12 -0800, "Auric Hellman"
<adhellman@volcanomail.com> said in alt.atheism:
<snip>
Why do gays hate the RC church so much?
Why not ask Galeleo... the "witches" burned at the stake.... the
victims of the inquisition... the Muslims "converted" at the point of
the sword during the crusades.... and all of the other recipients of
centuries of "catholic love".
<snip>
And before some stupid ***** says anything, Catholic witch burnings had
NOTHING to so with Salem Massachusetts.
--
"Only Buddhism is compatible with science. It covers the smallest
particles to the largest creations of the cosmos. It is the only
religion capable of scientific truth."
Albert Einstein
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