Religions > Atheism > Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"J Young" |
| Date: |
15 Sep 2007 10:31:06 PM |
| Object: |
Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
His Holiness is a man who obviously loves and values life. His wisdom
and mercy should be commended
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/sep/07091402.html
Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied
Artificial Nutrition and Hydration
Response to certain questions raised by US Conference of Catholic
Bishops concerning artificial nutrition and hydration
By John-Henry Westen
VATICAN CITY, September 14, 2007 (LifeSiteNews.com) - In most
hospitals in North America, families of patients in permanent
vegetative state are asked if they wish their family member to have
their artificial feeding tube removed. According to a definitive
ruling by the Vatican made public today, the withdrawal of artificial
nutrition and hydration from such patients is immoral.
The ruling from the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the
Faith was made in response to certain questions raised by the United
States Conference of Catholic Bishops concerning artificial nutrition
and hydration. The replies were approved by Pope Benedict XVI during
an audience granted to Cardinal William Joseph Levada, prefect of the
congregation.
"First question: Is the administration of food and water (whether by
natural or artificial means) to a patient in a 'vegetative state'
morally obligatory except when they cannot be assimilated by the
patient's body or cannot be administered to the patient without
causing significant physical discomfort?
"Response: Yes. The administration of food and water even by
artificial means is, in principle, an ordinary and proportionate means
of preserving life. It is therefore obligatory to the extent to which,
and for as long as, it is shown to accomplish its proper finality,
which is the hydration and nourishment of the patient. In this way
suffering and death by starvation and dehydration are prevented.
"Second question: When nutrition and hydration are being supplied by
artificial means to a patient in a 'permanent vegetative state,' may
they be discontinued when competent physicians judge with moral
certainty that the patient will never recover consciousness?
"Response: No. A patient in a 'permanent vegetative state' is a person
with fundamental human dignity and must, therefore, receive ordinary
and proportionate care which includes, in principle, the
administration of water and food even by artificial means."
An English-language note accompanying the responses indicates that:
"When stating that the administration of food and water is morally
obligatory 'in principle,' the Congregation for the Doctrine of the
Faith does not exclude the possibility that, in very remote places or
in situations of extreme poverty, the artificial provision of food and
water may be physically impossible, and then 'ad impossibilia nemo
tenetur.' However, the obligation to offer the minimal treatments that
are available remains in place, as well as that of obtaining, if
possible, the means necessary for an adequate support of life.
"Nor is the possibility excluded that, due to emerging complications,
a patient may be unable to assimilate food and liquids, so that their
provision becomes altogether useless. Finally, the possibility is not
absolutely excluded that, in some rare cases, artificial nourishment
and hydration may be excessively burdensome for the patient or may
cause significant physical discomfort, for example resulting from
complications in the use of the means employed.
"These exceptional cases, however, take nothing away from the general
ethical criterion, according to which the provision of water and food,
even by artificial means, always represents a 'natural means' for
preserving life, and is not a 'therapeutic treatment.' Its use should
therefore be considered 'ordinary and proportionate,' even when the
'vegetative state' is prolonged."
(with files from the Vatican Information Service)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(c) Copyright: LifeSiteNews.com. Permission to republish is granted
(with limitation*) but acknowledgement of source is *REQUIRED* (use
LifeSiteNews.com).
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
23 Sep 2007 01:54:43 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
Sorry, bubba, but you ignore some points.
1. The Church IS the people.
No, it isn't. The church leadership only believes that they get to
make rules for all of humanity.
Sorry, raised face, but the Church is the Body of Christ, the people.
Your cult insanity does not justify your dictatorship.
2. A priest gives his life to God to care for the Church.
No, he gives his life to the church.
To the people, the Body of Christ.
No, puke, to the church.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
23 Sep 2007 03:32:41 PM |
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On 23 Sep 2007 18:54:43 GMT, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
Sorry, bubba, but you ignore some points.
1. The Church IS the people.
No, it isn't. The church leadership only believes that they get to
make rules for all of humanity.
Sorry, raised face, but the Church is the Body of Christ, the people.
Your cult insanity does not justify your dictatorship.
That's the way it is, regardless of you disbelieving it.
2. A priest gives his life to God to care for the Church.
No, he gives his life to the church.
To the people, the Body of Christ.
No, puke, to the church.
To God. The priest is an elder of the Church, the Body of Christ.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
23 Sep 2007 06:10:11 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 23 Sep 2007 18:54:43 GMT, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
Sorry, bubba, but you ignore some points.
1. The Church IS the people.
No, it isn't. The church leadership only believes that they get to
make rules for all of humanity.
Sorry, raised face, but the Church is the Body of Christ, the people.
Your cult insanity does not justify your dictatorship.
That's the way it is,
No, it is not, puke.
2. A priest gives his life to God to care for the Church.
No, he gives his life to the church.
To the people, the Body of Christ.
No, puke, to the church.
To God.
Your cult insanity is not reality.
--
Ray Fischer
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
24 Sep 2007 05:58:13 AM |
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On 23 Sep 2007 23:10:11 GMT, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
Sorry, bubba, but you ignore some points.
1. The Church IS the people.
No, it isn't. The church leadership only believes that they get to
make rules for all of humanity.
Sorry, raised face, but the Church is the Body of Christ, the people.
Your cult insanity does not justify your dictatorship.
That's the way it is,
No, it is not, puke.
Is not what, raised face?
2. A priest gives his life to God to care for the Church.
No, he gives his life to the church.
To the people, the Body of Christ.
No, puke, to the church.
To God.
Your cult insanity is not reality.
Satan has his hand in your pocket, the one with the hole in it.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
16 Sep 2007 11:35:12 AM |
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J Young wrote:
His Holiness is a man who obviously loves and values life. His wisdom
and mercy should be commended
I don't suppose the Vatican will foot the bill though, eh?
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| User: "Lee me@localhost" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
16 Sep 2007 11:43:34 AM |
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"Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:0q2dnZ0KZd3cxnDbnZ2dnUVZ_sytnZ2d@giganews.com...
J Young wrote:
His Holiness is a man who obviously loves and values life. His wisdom
and mercy should be commended
I don't suppose the Vatican will foot the bill though, eh?
It depends on how many cherub points you have accumulated you need a lot
though so most people have to settle for prayer.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
16 Sep 2007 12:11:48 PM |
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On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 12:35:12 -0400, "Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote:
J Young wrote:
His Holiness is a man who obviously loves and values life. His wisdom
and mercy should be commended
I don't suppose the Vatican will foot the bill though, eh?
No, g-spot. thou shall not murder. It's one of the 10 commandments.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
16 Sep 2007 01:33:47 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 12:35:12 -0400, "Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com>
wrote:
J Young wrote:
His Holiness is a man who obviously loves and values life. His
wisdom and mercy should be commended
I don't suppose the Vatican will foot the bill though, eh?
No, g-spot. thou shall not murder. It's one of the 10 commandments.
No murder unless God says so, you mean.
It's not murder, dipshit. If the Vatican wants to keep PVS patients on
life-support indefinitely, then let them put beds in the Vatican and pay for
the care.
Here in the US (and everywhere else except for the fantasy land called the
Vatican City), we know that beds, nurses, EKG machines, drugs, etc. are all
precious commodities. As much as we would like to keep every patient alive
and on support forever, it's not possible.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
17 Sep 2007 05:11:19 AM |
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On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 14:33:47 -0400, "Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote:
I don't suppose the Vatican will foot the bill though, eh?
No, g-spot. thou shall not murder. It's one of the 10 commandments.
No murder unless God says so, you mean.
Nope.
It's not murder, dipshit. If the Vatican wants to keep PVS patients on
life-support indefinitely, then let them put beds in the Vatican and pay for
the care.
That's for the family to do.
Here in the US (and everywhere else except for the fantasy land called the
Vatican City), we know that beds, nurses, EKG machines, drugs, etc. are all
precious commodities. As much as we would like to keep every patient alive
and on support forever, it's not possible.
It's not forever. We're against murder.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
17 Sep 2007 03:15:56 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 14:33:47 -0400, "Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com>
wrote:
I don't suppose the Vatican will foot the bill though, eh?
No, g-spot. thou shall not murder. It's one of the 10
commandments.
No murder unless God says so, you mean.
Nope.
It's not murder, dipshit. If the Vatican wants to keep PVS patients
on life-support indefinitely, then let them put beds in the Vatican
and pay for the care.
That's for the family to do.
So if they decide to end sustenance, that's their business. The Vatican's
opinion is completely irrelevant unless the family cares to make it
relevant.
Here in the US (and everywhere else except for the fantasy land
called the Vatican City), we know that beds, nurses, EKG machines,
drugs, etc. are all precious commodities. As much as we would like
to keep every patient alive and on support forever, it's not
possible.
It's not forever. We're against murder.
Even if it's for a month, it's not feasible.
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
17 Sep 2007 04:52:48 PM |
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On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:15:56 -0400, "Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote:
It's not murder, dipshit. If the Vatican wants to keep PVS patients
on life-support indefinitely, then let them put beds in the Vatican
and pay for the care.
That's for the family to do.
So if they decide to end sustenance, that's their business. The Vatican's
opinion is completely irrelevant unless the family cares to make it
relevant.
Technically you're right. God will decide right from wrong, not the Vatican.
Here in the US (and everywhere else except for the fantasy land
called the Vatican City), we know that beds, nurses, EKG machines,
drugs, etc. are all precious commodities. As much as we would like
to keep every patient alive and on support forever, it's not
possible.
It's not forever. We're against murder.
Even if it's for a month, it's not feasible.
It's murder 2 is a doctor pulls the plug on his own.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Free Lunch" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
17 Sep 2007 05:54:12 PM |
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On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:52:48 -0500, in alt.atheism
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in
<4mtte3psaadflultc4o6h7pc4ufjno09o7@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:15:56 -0400, "Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote:
It's not murder, dipshit. If the Vatican wants to keep PVS patients
on life-support indefinitely, then let them put beds in the Vatican
and pay for the care.
That's for the family to do.
So if they decide to end sustenance, that's their business. The Vatican's
opinion is completely irrelevant unless the family cares to make it
relevant.
Technically you're right. God will decide right from wrong, not the Vatican.
Only if God exists. As you know, but refuse to acknowledge, there is no
evidence that God exists.
Here in the US (and everywhere else except for the fantasy land
called the Vatican City), we know that beds, nurses, EKG machines,
drugs, etc. are all precious commodities. As much as we would like
to keep every patient alive and on support forever, it's not
possible.
It's not forever. We're against murder.
Even if it's for a month, it's not feasible.
It's murder 2 is a doctor pulls the plug on his own.
Why do we want to keep people in a persistent vegetative state?
.
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
17 Sep 2007 08:35:10 PM |
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Free Lunch wrote:
Here in the US (and everywhere else except for the fantasy land
called the Vatican City), we know that beds, nurses, EKG machines,
drugs, etc. are all precious commodities. As much as we would like
to keep every patient alive and on support forever, it's not
possible.
It's not forever. We're against murder.
Even if it's for a month, it's not feasible.
It's murder 2 is a doctor pulls the plug on his own.
Why do we want to keep people in a persistent vegetative state?
Because that's what he's told by Pope Adolph. Duke is incapable of relying
on his own moral judgement. If they came out tomorrow and said that the Pope
has declared that all PVS patients are just a corporeal vessel and that
their soul has since gone up to Heaven thus it is okay to let them die
peacefully, he would be all for it.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
18 Sep 2007 04:54:08 AM |
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On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 17:54:12 -0500, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
So if they decide to end sustenance, that's their business. The Vatican's
opinion is completely irrelevant unless the family cares to make it
relevant.
Technically you're right. God will decide right from wrong, not the Vatican.
Only if God exists. As you know, but refuse to acknowledge, there is no
evidence that God exists.
I've already given you that. You're one of those that just keeps demonstrating
the same ignorance.
It's murder 2 is a doctor pulls the plug on his own.
Why do we want to keep people in a persistent vegetative state?
God takes us when he's ready, not when the hospital decides your life is too
expensive for them. It's also a violation of a doctor's Hippocratic oath.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Free Lunch" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
18 Sep 2007 06:49:44 PM |
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On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 04:54:08 -0500, in alt.atheism
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in
<gs7ve3p21qjhkoin1c8hvb7amfdtnjb6lq@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 17:54:12 -0500, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
So if they decide to end sustenance, that's their business. The Vatican's
opinion is completely irrelevant unless the family cares to make it
relevant.
Technically you're right. God will decide right from wrong, not the Vatican.
Only if God exists. As you know, but refuse to acknowledge, there is no
evidence that God exists.
I've already given you that. You're one of those that just keeps demonstrating
the same ignorance.
You have made assertions. You have never offered any evidence. Learn the
difference an get back to me when you understand why you have never
offered any evidence.
It's murder 2 is a doctor pulls the plug on his own.
Why do we want to keep people in a persistent vegetative state?
God takes us when he's ready, not when the hospital decides your life is too
expensive for them. It's also a violation of a doctor's Hippocratic oath.
Then let's have single payer universal health care.
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
18 Sep 2007 07:56:04 AM |
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duke wrote:
On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 17:54:12 -0500, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us>
wrote:
So if they decide to end sustenance, that's their business. The
Vatican's opinion is completely irrelevant unless the family cares
to make it relevant.
Technically you're right. God will decide right from wrong, not
the Vatican.
Only if God exists. As you know, but refuse to acknowledge, there is
no evidence that God exists.
I've already given you that. You're one of those that just keeps
demonstrating the same ignorance.
Yeah, right, Duke. Your bar for evidence is conveniently low when it comes
to your religion. Why is it that the bar comes up to our level when
considering other religions?
It's murder 2 is a doctor pulls the plug on his own.
Why do we want to keep people in a persistent vegetative state?
God takes us when he's ready, not when the hospital decides your life
is too expensive for them.
So when PVS patients are allowed to die with dignity, do they have to sit in
a waiting room until you god is ready?
It's also a violation of a doctor's
Hippocratic oath.
Which part? This one?
"I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures that are required,
avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism."
Or this one?
"I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that
warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the
chemist's drug."
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
18 Sep 2007 01:02:43 PM |
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On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 08:56:04 -0400, "Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote:
Technically you're right. God will decide right from wrong, not
the Vatican.
Only if God exists. As you know, but refuse to acknowledge, there is
no evidence that God exists.
I've already given you that. You're one of those that just keeps
demonstrating the same ignorance.
Yeah, right, Duke. Your bar for evidence is conveniently low when it comes
to your religion. Why is it that the bar comes up to our level when
considering other religions?
I think your brain has a hole in it. All your knowledge keeps draining out.
It's murder 2 is a doctor pulls the plug on his own.
Why do we want to keep people in a persistent vegetative state?
God takes us when he's ready, not when the hospital decides your life
is too expensive for them.
So when PVS patients are allowed to die with dignity, do they have to sit in
a waiting room until you god is ready?
No, even people like you are well cared for in the hospital until God calls you.
And then you go to stand in judgment.
It's also a violation of a doctor's
Hippocratic oath.
Which part? This one?
"I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures that are required,
avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism."
Or this one?
"I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that
warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the
chemist's drug."
Thou shall not murder your patients.
*****
Hippocratic Oath—Modern Version
I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:
I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps
I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.
I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required,
avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.
I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that
warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the
chemist's drug.
I will not be ashamed to say "I know not," nor will I fail to call in my
colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.
I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed
to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters
of life and death. If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also
be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced
with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not
play at God.
I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a
sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic
stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care
adequately for the sick.
I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.
I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to
all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.
If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live
and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the
finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing
those who seek my help.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
18 Sep 2007 02:30:22 PM |
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duke wrote:
Yeah, right, Duke. Your bar for evidence is conveniently low when it
comes to your religion. Why is it that the bar comes up to our level
when considering other religions?
I think your brain has a hole in it. All your knowledge keeps
draining out.
Typically puerile.
It's murder 2 is a doctor pulls the plug on his own.
Why do we want to keep people in a persistent vegetative state?
God takes us when he's ready, not when the hospital decides your
life is too expensive for them.
So when PVS patients are allowed to die with dignity, do they have
to sit in a waiting room until you god is ready?
No, even people like you are well cared for in the hospital until God
calls you. And then you go to stand in judgment.
So when a person is allowed to die in dignity instead of indefinitely kept
on life support, how do you know that isn't God's wish?
It's also a violation of a doctor's
Hippocratic oath.
Which part? This one?
"I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures that are
required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic
nihilism."
Or this one?
"I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science,
and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the
surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug."
Thou shall not murder your patients.
It's not murder. How do I know? Because no doctor has been charged with
murder for removing life support from a PVS patient per the wishes of the
next of kin (or without their wishes per Texas law signed by Bush).
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
18 Sep 2007 04:19:33 PM |
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On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:30:22 -0400, "Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote:
I think your brain has a hole in it. All your knowledge keeps
draining out.
Typically puerile.
But oh so true.
It's murder 2 is a doctor pulls the plug on his own.
Why do we want to keep people in a persistent vegetative state?
God takes us when he's ready, not when the hospital decides your
life is too expensive for them.
So when PVS patients are allowed to die with dignity, do they have
to sit in a waiting room until you god is ready?
No, even people like you are well cared for in the hospital until God
calls you. And then you go to stand in judgment.
So when a person is allowed to die in dignity instead of indefinitely kept
on life support, how do you know that isn't God's wish?
God cannot and does not wish other peoples to do bad things.
Thou shall not murder your patients.
It's not murder. How do I know? Because no doctor has been charged with
murder for removing life support from a PVS patient per the wishes of the
next of kin (or without their wishes per Texas law signed by Bush).
But you said previously that it had to do with tying up hospital beds, and MRI
machines, etc. Those purposes make it murder.
But your are too challenged to understand these things.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Paul Duca" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
23 Sep 2007 08:16:37 AM |
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On Sep 18, 5:19 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:30:22 -0400, "Geoff" <geb...@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote:
I think your brain has a hole in it. All your knowledge keeps
draining out.
Typically puerile.
But oh so true.
It's murder 2 is a doctor pulls the plug on his own.
Why do we want to keep people in a persistent vegetative state?
God takes us when he's ready, not when the hospital decides your
life is too expensive for them.
So when PVS patients are allowed to die with dignity, do they have
to sit in a waiting room until you god is ready?
No, even people like you are well cared for in the hospital until God
calls you. And then you go to stand in judgment.
So when a person is allowed to die in dignity instead of indefinitely kept
on life support, how do you know that isn't God's wish?
God cannot and does not wish other peoples to do bad things.
God also cannot and does not reward people to do good things...
Paul
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| User: "BOB" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
18 Sep 2007 04:52:08 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in
news:r0g0f3d7598b9a1ktaf4qoi4p8o4nlcqjt@4ax.com:
On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:30:22 -0400, "Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com>
wrote:
I think your brain has a hole in it. All your knowledge keeps
draining out.
Typically puerile.
But oh so true.
The word "true" isn't in your vocabulary, puke.
It's murder 2 is a doctor pulls the plug on his own.
Why do we want to keep people in a persistent vegetative state?
God takes us when he's ready, not when the hospital decides your
life is too expensive for them.
So when PVS patients are allowed to die with dignity, do they have
to sit in a waiting room until you god is ready?
No, even people like you are well cared for in the hospital until
God calls you. And then you go to stand in judgment.
So when a person is allowed to die in dignity instead of indefinitely
kept on life support, how do you know that isn't God's wish?
God cannot and does not wish other peoples to do bad things.
So dying with dignity is a "bad thing" huh puke? Some loving "god" you
have there (not).
Thou shall not murder your patients.
It's not murder. How do I know? Because no doctor has been charged
with murder for removing life support from a PVS patient per the
wishes of the next of kin (or without their wishes per Texas law
signed by Bush).
But you said previously that it had to do with tying up hospital beds,
and MRI machines, etc. Those purposes make it murder.
But your are too challenged to understand these things.
And you are too stupid and evil, puke.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
19 Sep 2007 10:36:13 AM |
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duke wrote:
On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:30:22 -0400, "Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com>
wrote:
I think your brain has a hole in it. All your knowledge keeps
draining out.
Typically puerile.
But oh so true.
Duke, you couldn't match wits with me if you had Don Rickles in your breast
pocket.
It's murder 2 is a doctor pulls the plug on his own.
Why do we want to keep people in a persistent vegetative state?
God takes us when he's ready, not when the hospital decides your
life is too expensive for them.
So when PVS patients are allowed to die with dignity, do they have
to sit in a waiting room until you god is ready?
No, even people like you are well cared for in the hospital until
God calls you. And then you go to stand in judgment.
So when a person is allowed to die in dignity instead of
indefinitely kept on life support, how do you know that isn't God's
wish?
God cannot and does not wish other peoples to do bad things.
If God wants to call someone home, who are you to question his method?
Thou shall not murder your patients.
It's not murder. How do I know? Because no doctor has been charged
with murder for removing life support from a PVS patient per the
wishes of the next of kin (or without their wishes per Texas law
signed by Bush).
But you said previously that it had to do with tying up hospital
beds, and MRI machines, etc. Those purposes make it murder.
Um...no. Complete non sequitur. That's like saying that speed limits are an
unreasonable restraint of interstate commerce.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
23 Sep 2007 12:48:09 PM |
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On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 11:36:13 -0400, "Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote:
I think your brain has a hole in it. All your knowledge keeps
draining out.
Typically puerile.
But oh so true.
Duke, you couldn't match wits with me if you had Don Rickles in your breast
pocket.
Matching wits is easy. Exposing your ignorance of the Christian Church is even
easier.
So when a person is allowed to die in dignity instead of
indefinitely kept on life support, how do you know that isn't God's
wish?
God cannot and does not wish other peoples to do bad things.
If God wants to call someone home, who are you to question his method?
He doesn't use other people to do it.
But you said previously that it had to do with tying up hospital
beds, and MRI machines, etc. Those purposes make it murder.
Um...no. Complete non sequitur. That's like saying that speed limits are an
unreasonable restraint of interstate commerce.
Complete ignorance on your part.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
23 Sep 2007 03:03:11 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 11:36:13 -0400, "Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com>
wrote:
I think your brain has a hole in it. All your knowledge keeps
draining out.
Typically puerile.
But oh so true.
Duke, you couldn't match wits with me if you had Don Rickles in your
breast pocket.
Matching wits is easy. Exposing your ignorance of the Christian
Church is even easier.
Any church, especially any Christian church, is the epitome of ignorance.
So when a person is allowed to die in dignity instead of
indefinitely kept on life support, how do you know that isn't God's
wish?
God cannot and does not wish other peoples to do bad things.
If God wants to call someone home, who are you to question his
method?
He doesn't use other people to do it.
Since when? The Bible is rife with examples. Regardless, who are you to say
what his methods are?
But you said previously that it had to do with tying up hospital
beds, and MRI machines, etc. Those purposes make it murder.
Um...no. Complete non sequitur. That's like saying that speed limits
are an unreasonable restraint of interstate commerce.
Complete ignorance on your part.
Complete utter inability to sustain your argument.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
23 Sep 2007 03:34:51 PM |
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On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:03:11 -0400, "Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote:
Matching wits is easy. Exposing your ignorance of the Christian
Church is even easier.
Any church, especially any Christian church, is the epitome of ignorance.
With someone like you making a silly comment like that, I feel all the better.
If God wants to call someone home, who are you to question his
method?
He doesn't use other people to do it.
Since when? The Bible is rife with examples. Regardless, who are you to say
what his methods are?
No, the bible is rife with examples of men saying things like that. God can't
harm one hair on a person's head. He is all love.
But you said previously that it had to do with tying up hospital
beds, and MRI machines, etc. Those purposes make it murder.
Um...no. Complete non sequitur. That's like saying that speed limits
are an unreasonable restraint of interstate commerce.
Complete ignorance on your part.
Complete utter inability to sustain your argument.
You're not intelligent enough to recognize the truth.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
23 Sep 2007 09:57:27 PM |
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duke wrote:
On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:03:11 -0400, "Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com>
wrote:
Matching wits is easy. Exposing your ignorance of the Christian
Church is even easier.
Any church, especially any Christian church, is the epitome of
ignorance.
With someone like you making a silly comment like that, I feel all
the better.
Whatever gets you through the day man.
If God wants to call someone home, who are you to question his
method?
He doesn't use other people to do it.
Since when? The Bible is rife with examples. Regardless, who are you
to say what his methods are?
No, the bible is rife with examples of men saying things like that.
God can't harm one hair on a person's head. He is all love.
So th Bible is a pack of lies. Thanks.
But you said previously that it had to do with tying up hospital
beds, and MRI machines, etc. Those purposes make it murder.
Um...no. Complete non sequitur. That's like saying that speed
limits are an unreasonable restraint of interstate commerce.
Complete ignorance on your part.
Complete utter inability to sustain your argument.
You're not intelligent enough to recognize the truth.
Good one, Duke. You can't argue your point, so you throw out some
philisophical mumbo jumbo.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
24 Sep 2007 06:00:54 AM |
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On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 22:57:27 -0400, "Geoff" <gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote:
Matching wits is easy. Exposing your ignorance of the Christian
Church is even easier.
Any church, especially any Christian church, is the epitome of
ignorance.
With someone like you making a silly comment like that, I feel all
the better.
Whatever gets you through the day man.
You are so easy, it's fun.
No, the bible is rife with examples of men saying things like that.
God can't harm one hair on a person's head. He is all love.
So th Bible is a pack of lies. Thanks.
There you go - yet another example of your ignorance of the bible.
But you said previously that it had to do with tying up hospital
beds, and MRI machines, etc. Those purposes make it murder.
Um...no. Complete non sequitur. That's like saying that speed
limits are an unreasonable restraint of interstate commerce.
Complete ignorance on your part.
Complete utter inability to sustain your argument.
You're not intelligent enough to recognize the truth.
Good one, Duke. You can't argue your point, so you throw out some
philisophical mumbo jumbo.
Yet your posts show a complete lack of knowledge of the bible. Why do you waste
your time exposing your ignorance?
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
17 Sep 2007 08:32:36 PM |
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duke wrote:
Here in the US (and everywhere else except for the fantasy land
called the Vatican City), we know that beds, nurses, EKG machines,
drugs, etc. are all precious commodities. As much as we would like
to keep every patient alive and on support forever, it's not
possible.
It's not forever. We're against murder.
Even if it's for a month, it's not feasible.
It's murder 2 is a doctor pulls the plug on his own.
So you're ok if the family decides. Thanks for agreeing.
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| User: "LC" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
16 Sep 2007 10:10:01 AM |
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Ku Klux Kathoholic "J Young" <younginsights@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1189913466.186236.140380@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied
Artificial Nutrition and Hydration <snip OT crap>
So, let's see if I've got it: The old Nazi in a big hat and a dress says
"no" to birth control, but yes to forcing people into a permanent zombie
state.
Sounds about right.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
16 Sep 2007 12:11:14 PM |
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On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 10:10:01 -0500, "LC" <LC_____@hotmail.com> wrote:
Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied
Artificial Nutrition and Hydration <snip OT crap>
So, let's see if I've got it: The old Nazi in a big hat and a dress says
"no" to birth control, but yes to forcing people into a permanent zombie
state.
Sounds about right.
No, you got it wrong. He helps to preserve human life. You love abortion.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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