Religions > Atheism > Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"J Young" |
| Date: |
15 Sep 2007 10:31:06 PM |
| Object: |
Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
His Holiness is a man who obviously loves and values life. His wisdom
and mercy should be commended
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/sep/07091402.html
Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied
Artificial Nutrition and Hydration
Response to certain questions raised by US Conference of Catholic
Bishops concerning artificial nutrition and hydration
By John-Henry Westen
VATICAN CITY, September 14, 2007 (LifeSiteNews.com) - In most
hospitals in North America, families of patients in permanent
vegetative state are asked if they wish their family member to have
their artificial feeding tube removed. According to a definitive
ruling by the Vatican made public today, the withdrawal of artificial
nutrition and hydration from such patients is immoral.
The ruling from the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the
Faith was made in response to certain questions raised by the United
States Conference of Catholic Bishops concerning artificial nutrition
and hydration. The replies were approved by Pope Benedict XVI during
an audience granted to Cardinal William Joseph Levada, prefect of the
congregation.
"First question: Is the administration of food and water (whether by
natural or artificial means) to a patient in a 'vegetative state'
morally obligatory except when they cannot be assimilated by the
patient's body or cannot be administered to the patient without
causing significant physical discomfort?
"Response: Yes. The administration of food and water even by
artificial means is, in principle, an ordinary and proportionate means
of preserving life. It is therefore obligatory to the extent to which,
and for as long as, it is shown to accomplish its proper finality,
which is the hydration and nourishment of the patient. In this way
suffering and death by starvation and dehydration are prevented.
"Second question: When nutrition and hydration are being supplied by
artificial means to a patient in a 'permanent vegetative state,' may
they be discontinued when competent physicians judge with moral
certainty that the patient will never recover consciousness?
"Response: No. A patient in a 'permanent vegetative state' is a person
with fundamental human dignity and must, therefore, receive ordinary
and proportionate care which includes, in principle, the
administration of water and food even by artificial means."
An English-language note accompanying the responses indicates that:
"When stating that the administration of food and water is morally
obligatory 'in principle,' the Congregation for the Doctrine of the
Faith does not exclude the possibility that, in very remote places or
in situations of extreme poverty, the artificial provision of food and
water may be physically impossible, and then 'ad impossibilia nemo
tenetur.' However, the obligation to offer the minimal treatments that
are available remains in place, as well as that of obtaining, if
possible, the means necessary for an adequate support of life.
"Nor is the possibility excluded that, due to emerging complications,
a patient may be unable to assimilate food and liquids, so that their
provision becomes altogether useless. Finally, the possibility is not
absolutely excluded that, in some rare cases, artificial nourishment
and hydration may be excessively burdensome for the patient or may
cause significant physical discomfort, for example resulting from
complications in the use of the means employed.
"These exceptional cases, however, take nothing away from the general
ethical criterion, according to which the provision of water and food,
even by artificial means, always represents a 'natural means' for
preserving life, and is not a 'therapeutic treatment.' Its use should
therefore be considered 'ordinary and proportionate,' even when the
'vegetative state' is prolonged."
(with files from the Vatican Information Service)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(c) Copyright: LifeSiteNews.com. Permission to republish is granted
(with limitation*) but acknowledgement of source is *REQUIRED* (use
LifeSiteNews.com).
.
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| User: "Lee me@localhost" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
16 Sep 2007 12:28:18 AM |
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"J Young" <younginsights@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1189913466.186236.140380@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
His Holiness is a man who obviously loves and values life. His wisdom
and mercy should be commended
They sure kept the last pope going long after his sell by date had expired.
http://blamebush.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/pope_bush.jpg
http://peacecorpsonline.org/messages/imagefolder/114pope.jpg
http://www.catholicshopper.com/products/media/NWC_ST_876B.jpg
Makes you wonder if he was up to making decisions concerning millions of
people.
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
16 Sep 2007 12:10:14 PM |
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On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 06:28:18 +0100, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
Makes you wonder if he was up to making decisions concerning millions of
people.
As you see, he is. No murder allowed.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "Lee me@localhost" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
16 Sep 2007 01:00:35 PM |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:2roqe3h85shjc7np28ldcboe14qamjhmum@4ax.com...
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 06:28:18 +0100, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
Makes you wonder if he was up to making decisions concerning millions of
people.
As you see, he is. No murder allowed.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Based on what? while forbidding murder the bible seems to give very little
information about how to deal humanely with those unfortunate people that
end up in a vegative state on a life support machine.
.
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| User: "Hatter" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
18 Sep 2007 05:40:08 PM |
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On Sep 16, 2:00 pm, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
"duke" <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:2roqe3h85shjc7np28ldcboe14qamjhmum@4ax.com...
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 06:28:18 +0100, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
Makes you wonder if he was up to making decisions concerning millions of
people.
As you see, he is. No murder allowed.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Based on what? while forbidding murder the bible seems to give very little
information about how to deal humanely with those unfortunate people that
end up in a vegative state on a life support machine.
No murder allowed in the Catholic Church.
None.
The Crusades didn't happen. The executions of heretics didn't happen.
The Saint Bartholomew's Day masscre didn't happen, The Inquistion
execution of 35,534 according to church records didn't happen, The
Numberous Murders of Pagans during the consolidation of the Post-
Nicean church in the 4th and 5th centuries didn't happen, The
Deathcamp of Skythopolis, Syria didn't happen, The Imperial Edict of
364 mandating the murder of all active Pagans within Rome didn't
happen, The Emperor Valens order of the execution of all Manchian
christians for disagreeing with the pope didn't happen, The Killing
of Priscillian for doubting the trinity was not commited by German
Bishops, St Augustine of Hippo did not order the killing of hundreds
of Pagans in Calama in 408, The Bishop Cyril did not get jealous of
the popular pagan Hypatia and had her killed in 415 followed by not
having all Pagan Preist left in the city burned alive, Ioannis
Asiacus under orders from the Pope, did not have hundreds put to death
in Constantinople in 546, The murder of all the followers of Zues in
the city of antioch in 580 did not happen and their bodies were not
dragged through the streets or fed to lions or put into the city dump,
The war against Persia in the early 7nth century didn't happen,
Charlemagne did not execute 4500 saxons for refusing to convert one
morning in 782, Pope Sergius the III did not murder his predessor for
the Papal throne, Pope Boniface the VII did not murder his predessor
for the Papal throne, Benedict the IX did not order multiple murders,
The murders of Jews in 1147 in France did not happen, Innocent the
third did not sign the proclomation the anyone who disagree with him
"must be burned without pity," The Masscre of over 20000 Cathari at
Beziers as ordered by the Archbishop at France did not happen, The
Archbishop of Germany did not order the execution of 10000 men, women
and children in 1234 for refusing to pay church taxes, Boniface the
VIII did not order all the residents of Palestrina to be executed for
not submitting to him resulting in over 6000 murders, In the late
1340s thousands of Jews were not murdered by Catholics blaming them
for the Plauge, (not yet pope)Clement VII did not head the masscre of
thousands at Cessna in 1375,Archbishop Martinez of Seville did not
order the murder of thousands of Jews in 1391, Pope John the XXIII did
not murder his predessor for the Papal throne, Alexander the VI did
not order the backstreet murder of dozens, In the late 15th and early
16th century, with the Blessing of Rome, the Conquistadors did not
murder 30 million Azteks and Mayans.
I guess it ALL DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!!!
Hatter
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
18 Sep 2007 05:50:14 PM |
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In article <1190155208.468376.76830@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> Hatter <Hatter23@gmail.com> writes:
On Sep 16, 2:00 pm, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
"duke" <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:2roqe3h85shjc7np28ldcboe14qamjhmum@4ax.com...
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 06:28:18 +0100, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
Makes you wonder if he was up to making decisions concerning millions of
people.
As you see, he is. No murder allowed.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Based on what? while forbidding murder the bible seems to give very little
information about how to deal humanely with those unfortunate people that
end up in a vegative state on a life support machine.
No murder allowed in the Catholic Church.
None.
The Crusades didn't happen. The executions of heretics didn't happen.
The Saint Bartholomew's Day masscre didn't happen, The Inquistion
execution of 35,534 according to church records didn't happen, The
Numberous Murders of Pagans during the consolidation of the Post-
Nicean church in the 4th and 5th centuries didn't happen, The
Deathcamp of Skythopolis, Syria didn't happen, The Imperial Edict of
364 mandating the murder of all active Pagans within Rome didn't
happen, The Emperor Valens order of the execution of all Manchian
christians for disagreeing with the pope didn't happen, The Killing
of Priscillian for doubting the trinity was not commited by German
Bishops, St Augustine of Hippo did not order the killing of hundreds
of Pagans in Calama in 408, The Bishop Cyril did not get jealous of
the popular pagan Hypatia and had her killed in 415 followed by not
having all Pagan Preist left in the city burned alive, Ioannis
Asiacus under orders from the Pope, did not have hundreds put to death
in Constantinople in 546, The murder of all the followers of Zues in
the city of antioch in 580 did not happen and their bodies were not
dragged through the streets or fed to lions or put into the city dump,
The war against Persia in the early 7nth century didn't happen,
Charlemagne did not execute 4500 saxons for refusing to convert one
morning in 782, Pope Sergius the III did not murder his predessor for
the Papal throne, Pope Boniface the VII did not murder his predessor
for the Papal throne, Benedict the IX did not order multiple murders,
The murders of Jews in 1147 in France did not happen, Innocent the
third did not sign the proclomation the anyone who disagree with him
"must be burned without pity," The Masscre of over 20000 Cathari at
Beziers as ordered by the Archbishop at France did not happen, The
Archbishop of Germany did not order the execution of 10000 men, women
and children in 1234 for refusing to pay church taxes, Boniface the
VIII did not order all the residents of Palestrina to be executed for
not submitting to him resulting in over 6000 murders, In the late
1340s thousands of Jews were not murdered by Catholics blaming them
for the Plauge, (not yet pope)Clement VII did not head the masscre of
thousands at Cessna in 1375,Archbishop Martinez of Seville did not
order the murder of thousands of Jews in 1391, Pope John the XXIII did
not murder his predessor for the Papal throne, Alexander the VI did
not order the backstreet murder of dozens, In the late 15th and early
16th century, with the Blessing of Rome, the Conquistadors did not
murder 30 million Azteks and Mayans.
I guess it ALL DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!!!
And, of course, Cistercian Abbot-Commander Arnaud, instigating the
massacre of the Cathars, never said "Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus
qui sunt eius."
-- cary
.
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| User: "skyeyes" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
18 Sep 2007 06:36:58 PM |
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On Sep 18, 3:50 pm, (Cary Kittrell) wrote:
In article <1190155208.468376.76...@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> Hatter <Hatte...@gmail.com> writes:
On Sep 16, 2:00 pm, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
"duke" <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:2roqe3h85shjc7np28ldcboe14qamjhmum@4ax.com...
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 06:28:18 +0100, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
Makes you wonder if he was up to making decisions concerning millions of
people.
As you see, he is. No murder allowed.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Based on what? while forbidding murder the bible seems to give very little
information about how to deal humanely with those unfortunate people that
end up in a vegative state on a life support machine.
No murder allowed in the Catholic Church.
None.
The Crusades didn't happen. The executions of heretics didn't happen.
The Saint Bartholomew's Day masscre didn't happen, The Inquistion
execution of 35,534 according to church records didn't happen, The
Numberous Murders of Pagans during the consolidation of the Post-
Nicean church in the 4th and 5th centuries didn't happen, The
Deathcamp of Skythopolis, Syria didn't happen, The Imperial Edict of
364 mandating the murder of all active Pagans within Rome didn't
happen, The Emperor Valens order of the execution of all Manchian
christians for disagreeing with the pope didn't happen, The Killing
of Priscillian for doubting the trinity was not commited by German
Bishops, St Augustine of Hippo did not order the killing of hundreds
of Pagans in Calama in 408, The Bishop Cyril did not get jealous of
the popular pagan Hypatia and had her killed in 415 followed by not
having all Pagan Preist left in the city burned alive, Ioannis
Asiacus under orders from the Pope, did not have hundreds put to death
in Constantinople in 546, The murder of all the followers of Zues in
the city of antioch in 580 did not happen and their bodies were not
dragged through the streets or fed to lions or put into the city dump,
The war against Persia in the early 7nth century didn't happen,
Charlemagne did not execute 4500 saxons for refusing to convert one
morning in 782, Pope Sergius the III did not murder his predessor for
the Papal throne, Pope Boniface the VII did not murder his predessor
for the Papal throne, Benedict the IX did not order multiple murders,
The murders of Jews in 1147 in France did not happen, Innocent the
third did not sign the proclomation the anyone who disagree with him
"must be burned without pity," The Masscre of over 20000 Cathari at
Beziers as ordered by the Archbishop at France did not happen, The
Archbishop of Germany did not order the execution of 10000 men, women
and children in 1234 for refusing to pay church taxes, Boniface the
VIII did not order all the residents of Palestrina to be executed for
not submitting to him resulting in over 6000 murders, In the late
1340s thousands of Jews were not murdered by Catholics blaming them
for the Plauge, (not yet pope)Clement VII did not head the masscre of
thousands at Cessna in 1375,Archbishop Martinez of Seville did not
order the murder of thousands of Jews in 1391, Pope John the XXIII did
not murder his predessor for the Papal throne, Alexander the VI did
not order the backstreet murder of dozens, In the late 15th and early
16th century, with the Blessing of Rome, the Conquistadors did not
murder 30 million Azteks and Mayans.
I guess it ALL DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!!!
And, of course, Cistercian Abbot-Commander Arnaud, instigating the
massacre of the Cathars, never said "Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus
qui sunt eius."
Geshundheit.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
skyeyes at dakotacom dot net
.
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
18 Sep 2007 06:40:43 PM |
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In article <1190158618.637939.326570@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> skyeyes <skyeyes@dakotacom.net> writes:
On Sep 18, 3:50 pm, (Cary Kittrell) wrote:
In article <1190155208.468376.76...@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> Hatter <Hatte...@gmail.com> writes:
On Sep 16, 2:00 pm, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
"duke" <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:2roqe3h85shjc7np28ldcboe14qamjhmum@4ax.com...
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 06:28:18 +0100, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
Makes you wonder if he was up to making decisions concerning millions of
people.
As you see, he is. No murder allowed.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Based on what? while forbidding murder the bible seems to give very little
information about how to deal humanely with those unfortunate people that
end up in a vegative state on a life support machine.
No murder allowed in the Catholic Church.
None.
The Crusades didn't happen. The executions of heretics didn't happen.
The Saint Bartholomew's Day masscre didn't happen, The Inquistion
execution of 35,534 according to church records didn't happen, The
Numberous Murders of Pagans during the consolidation of the Post-
Nicean church in the 4th and 5th centuries didn't happen, The
Deathcamp of Skythopolis, Syria didn't happen, The Imperial Edict of
364 mandating the murder of all active Pagans within Rome didn't
happen, The Emperor Valens order of the execution of all Manchian
christians for disagreeing with the pope didn't happen, The Killing
of Priscillian for doubting the trinity was not commited by German
Bishops, St Augustine of Hippo did not order the killing of hundreds
of Pagans in Calama in 408, The Bishop Cyril did not get jealous of
the popular pagan Hypatia and had her killed in 415 followed by not
having all Pagan Preist left in the city burned alive, Ioannis
Asiacus under orders from the Pope, did not have hundreds put to death
in Constantinople in 546, The murder of all the followers of Zues in
the city of antioch in 580 did not happen and their bodies were not
dragged through the streets or fed to lions or put into the city dump,
The war against Persia in the early 7nth century didn't happen,
Charlemagne did not execute 4500 saxons for refusing to convert one
morning in 782, Pope Sergius the III did not murder his predessor for
the Papal throne, Pope Boniface the VII did not murder his predessor
for the Papal throne, Benedict the IX did not order multiple murders,
The murders of Jews in 1147 in France did not happen, Innocent the
third did not sign the proclomation the anyone who disagree with him
"must be burned without pity," The Masscre of over 20000 Cathari at
Beziers as ordered by the Archbishop at France did not happen, The
Archbishop of Germany did not order the execution of 10000 men, women
and children in 1234 for refusing to pay church taxes, Boniface the
VIII did not order all the residents of Palestrina to be executed for
not submitting to him resulting in over 6000 murders, In the late
1340s thousands of Jews were not murdered by Catholics blaming them
for the Plauge, (not yet pope)Clement VII did not head the masscre of
thousands at Cessna in 1375,Archbishop Martinez of Seville did not
order the murder of thousands of Jews in 1391, Pope John the XXIII did
not murder his predessor for the Papal throne, Alexander the VI did
not order the backstreet murder of dozens, In the late 15th and early
16th century, with the Blessing of Rome, the Conquistadors did not
murder 30 million Azteks and Mayans.
I guess it ALL DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!!!
And, of course, Cistercian Abbot-Commander Arnaud, instigating the
massacre of the Cathars, never said "Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus
qui sunt eius."
Geshundheit.
Oh. Dang!
I forgot to add "...as we say here in Tucson".
-- cary
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
17 Sep 2007 05:07:48 AM |
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On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 19:00:35 +0100, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:2roqe3h85shjc7np28ldcboe14qamjhmum@4ax.com...
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 06:28:18 +0100, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
Makes you wonder if he was up to making decisions concerning millions of
people.
As you see, he is. No murder allowed.
*****
Based on what?
Mat 25, et al.
while forbidding murder the bible seems to give very little
information about how to deal humanely with those unfortunate people that
end up in a vegative state on a life support machine.
And everything it does say is opposed to murdering them.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "Lee me@localhost" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
17 Sep 2007 05:23:41 AM |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:cdkse31enq88f6skv99plojldd391vl4pl@4ax.com...
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 19:00:35 +0100, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:2roqe3h85shjc7np28ldcboe14qamjhmum@4ax.com...
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 06:28:18 +0100, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
Makes you wonder if he was up to making decisions concerning millions of
people.
As you see, he is. No murder allowed.
*****
Based on what?
Mat 25, et al.
while forbidding murder the bible seems to give very little
information about how to deal humanely with those unfortunate people that
end up in a vegative state on a life support machine.
And everything it does say is opposed to murdering them.
So the Christian god likes to allow people to be vegetables for the rest of
their natural life or even worse trapped in a completely unresponsive body.
As Christians don't claim to reincarnate or anything this seems a needlessly
cruel thing for a deity to do.
.
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| User: "BOB" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
17 Sep 2007 10:54:28 AM |
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"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in
news:46ee5580$0$13930$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:cdkse31enq88f6skv99plojldd391vl4pl@4ax.com...
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 19:00:35 +0100, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:2roqe3h85shjc7np28ldcboe14qamjhmum@4ax.com...
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 06:28:18 +0100, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
Makes you wonder if he was up to making decisions concerning
millions of people.
As you see, he is. No murder allowed.
*****
Based on what?
Mat 25, et al.
while forbidding murder the bible seems to give very little
information about how to deal humanely with those unfortunate people
that end up in a vegative state on a life support machine.
And everything it does say is opposed to murdering them.
So the Christian god likes to allow people to be vegetables for the
rest of their natural life or even worse trapped in a completely
unresponsive body. As Christians don't claim to reincarnate or
anything this seems a needlessly cruel thing for a deity to do.
In case you didn't know, Puke is a delusional troll.
.
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| User: "Lee me@localhost" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
17 Sep 2007 11:42:36 AM |
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"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message news:Xns99AE5A818D283SD@69.28.173.184...
"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in
news:46ee5580$0$13930$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:cdkse31enq88f6skv99plojldd391vl4pl@4ax.com...
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 19:00:35 +0100, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:2roqe3h85shjc7np28ldcboe14qamjhmum@4ax.com...
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 06:28:18 +0100, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
Makes you wonder if he was up to making decisions concerning
millions of people.
As you see, he is. No murder allowed.
*****
Based on what?
Mat 25, et al.
while forbidding murder the bible seems to give very little
information about how to deal humanely with those unfortunate people
that end up in a vegative state on a life support machine.
And everything it does say is opposed to murdering them.
So the Christian god likes to allow people to be vegetables for the
rest of their natural life or even worse trapped in a completely
unresponsive body. As Christians don't claim to reincarnate or
anything this seems a needlessly cruel thing for a deity to do.
In case you didn't know, Puke is a delusional troll.
Oh well at least I can rest assured that he won't be around if I ever have
the misfortune to end up in a permanent coma for some reason.
.
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| User: "BOB" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
17 Sep 2007 11:54:40 AM |
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"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in
news:46eeae4e$0$8418$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message
news:Xns99AE5A818D283SD@69.28.173.184...
"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in
news:46ee5580$0$13930$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:cdkse31enq88f6skv99plojldd391vl4pl@4ax.com...
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 19:00:35 +0100, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:2roqe3h85shjc7np28ldcboe14qamjhmum@4ax.com...
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 06:28:18 +0100, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
Makes you wonder if he was up to making decisions concerning
millions of people.
As you see, he is. No murder allowed.
*****
Based on what?
Mat 25, et al.
while forbidding murder the bible seems to give very little
information about how to deal humanely with those unfortunate
people that end up in a vegative state on a life support machine.
And everything it does say is opposed to murdering them.
So the Christian god likes to allow people to be vegetables for the
rest of their natural life or even worse trapped in a completely
unresponsive body. As Christians don't claim to reincarnate or
anything this seems a needlessly cruel thing for a deity to do.
In case you didn't know, Puke is a delusional troll.
Oh well at least I can rest assured that he won't be around if I ever
have the misfortune to end up in a permanent coma for some reason.
Puke already has the personal experience of being brain dead.
.
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| User: "Lee me@localhost" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
17 Sep 2007 12:51:09 PM |
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"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message news:Xns99AE64B6A37D0SD@69.28.173.184...
"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in
news:46eeae4e$0$8418$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message
news:Xns99AE5A818D283SD@69.28.173.184...
"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in
news:46ee5580$0$13930$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:cdkse31enq88f6skv99plojldd391vl4pl@4ax.com...
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 19:00:35 +0100, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:2roqe3h85shjc7np28ldcboe14qamjhmum@4ax.com...
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 06:28:18 +0100, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
Makes you wonder if he was up to making decisions concerning
millions of people.
As you see, he is. No murder allowed.
*****
Based on what?
Mat 25, et al.
while forbidding murder the bible seems to give very little
information about how to deal humanely with those unfortunate
people that end up in a vegative state on a life support machine.
And everything it does say is opposed to murdering them.
So the Christian god likes to allow people to be vegetables for the
rest of their natural life or even worse trapped in a completely
unresponsive body. As Christians don't claim to reincarnate or
anything this seems a needlessly cruel thing for a deity to do.
In case you didn't know, Puke is a delusional troll.
Oh well at least I can rest assured that he won't be around if I ever
have the misfortune to end up in a permanent coma for some reason.
Puke already has the personal experience of being brain dead.
I thought he was some kind of christian not a zen Buddhist lol, can he clap
with one hand.
.
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| User: "BOB" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
17 Sep 2007 01:00:42 PM |
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"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in
news:46eebe60$0$8427$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message
news:Xns99AE64B6A37D0SD@69.28.173.184...
"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in
news:46eeae4e$0$8418$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message
news:Xns99AE5A818D283SD@69.28.173.184...
"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in
news:46ee5580$0$13930$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:cdkse31enq88f6skv99plojldd391vl4pl@4ax.com...
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 19:00:35 +0100, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:2roqe3h85shjc7np28ldcboe14qamjhmum@4ax.com...
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 06:28:18 +0100, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
Makes you wonder if he was up to making decisions concerning
millions of people.
As you see, he is. No murder allowed.
*****
Based on what?
Mat 25, et al.
while forbidding murder the bible seems to give very little
information about how to deal humanely with those unfortunate
people that end up in a vegative state on a life support machine.
And everything it does say is opposed to murdering them.
So the Christian god likes to allow people to be vegetables for
the rest of their natural life or even worse trapped in a
completely unresponsive body. As Christians don't claim to
reincarnate or anything this seems a needlessly cruel thing for a
deity to do.
In case you didn't know, Puke is a delusional troll.
Oh well at least I can rest assured that he won't be around if I
ever have the misfortune to end up in a permanent coma for some
reason.
Puke already has the personal experience of being brain dead.
I thought he was some kind of christian not a zen Buddhist lol, can he
clap with one hand.
No, puke is not a true xtian but rather just another typical hypocritical
scumbag cult follower who (falsly) claims to be one.
.
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| User: "Lee me@localhost" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
17 Sep 2007 01:27:28 PM |
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"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message news:Xns99AE6FE80838ASD@69.28.173.184...
"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in
news:46eebe60$0$8427$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message
news:Xns99AE64B6A37D0SD@69.28.173.184...
"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in
news:46eeae4e$0$8418$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message
news:Xns99AE5A818D283SD@69.28.173.184...
"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in
news:46ee5580$0$13930$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:cdkse31enq88f6skv99plojldd391vl4pl@4ax.com...
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 19:00:35 +0100, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:2roqe3h85shjc7np28ldcboe14qamjhmum@4ax.com...
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 06:28:18 +0100, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
Makes you wonder if he was up to making decisions concerning
millions of people.
As you see, he is. No murder allowed.
*****
Based on what?
Mat 25, et al.
while forbidding murder the bible seems to give very little
information about how to deal humanely with those unfortunate
people that end up in a vegative state on a life support machine.
And everything it does say is opposed to murdering them.
So the Christian god likes to allow people to be vegetables for
the rest of their natural life or even worse trapped in a
completely unresponsive body. As Christians don't claim to
reincarnate or anything this seems a needlessly cruel thing for a
deity to do.
In case you didn't know, Puke is a delusional troll.
Oh well at least I can rest assured that he won't be around if I
ever have the misfortune to end up in a permanent coma for some
reason.
Puke already has the personal experience of being brain dead.
I thought he was some kind of christian not a zen Buddhist lol, can he
clap with one hand.
No, puke is not a true xtian but rather just another typical hypocritical
scumbag cult follower who (falsly) claims to be one.
He probably should not be quoting the pope then, xtian factions are usually
quite competitive and many don't like el papa much.
.
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| User: "BOB" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
17 Sep 2007 08:33:07 PM |
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"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in
news:46eec6e3$0$8427$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message
news:Xns99AE6FE80838ASD@69.28.173.184...
"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in
news:46eebe60$0$8427$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message
news:Xns99AE64B6A37D0SD@69.28.173.184...
"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in
news:46eeae4e$0$8418$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message
news:Xns99AE5A818D283SD@69.28.173.184...
"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in
news:46ee5580$0$13930$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:cdkse31enq88f6skv99plojldd391vl4pl@4ax.com...
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 19:00:35 +0100, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:2roqe3h85shjc7np28ldcboe14qamjhmum@4ax.com...
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 06:28:18 +0100, "Lee" <me@localhost>
wrote:
Makes you wonder if he was up to making decisions concerning
millions of people.
As you see, he is. No murder allowed.
*****
Based on what?
Mat 25, et al.
while forbidding murder the bible seems to give very little
information about how to deal humanely with those unfortunate
people that end up in a vegative state on a life support
machine.
And everything it does say is opposed to murdering them.
So the Christian god likes to allow people to be vegetables for
the rest of their natural life or even worse trapped in a
completely unresponsive body. As Christians don't claim to
reincarnate or anything this seems a needlessly cruel thing for
a deity to do.
In case you didn't know, Puke is a delusional troll.
Oh well at least I can rest assured that he won't be around if I
ever have the misfortune to end up in a permanent coma for some
reason.
Puke already has the personal experience of being brain dead.
I thought he was some kind of christian not a zen Buddhist lol, can
he clap with one hand.
No, puke is not a true xtian but rather just another typical
hypocritical scumbag cult follower who (falsly) claims to be one.
He probably should not be quoting the pope then, xtian factions are
usually quite competitive and many don't like el papa much.
Nobody likes puke either.
.
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| User: "Lee me@localhost" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
18 Sep 2007 03:49:04 AM |
|
|
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message news:Xns99AEBC9BFE65ASD@69.28.173.184...
"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in
news:46eec6e3$0$8427$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message
news:Xns99AE6FE80838ASD@69.28.173.184...
"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in
news:46eebe60$0$8427$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message
news:Xns99AE64B6A37D0SD@69.28.173.184...
"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in
news:46eeae4e$0$8418$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk:
"BOB" <sd@sd.net> wrote in message
news:Xns99AE5A818D283SD@69.28.173.184...
"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in
news:46ee5580$0$13930$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:cdkse31enq88f6skv99plojldd391vl4pl@4ax.com...
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 19:00:35 +0100, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:2roqe3h85shjc7np28ldcboe14qamjhmum@4ax.com...
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 06:28:18 +0100, "Lee" <me@localhost>
wrote:
Makes you wonder if he was up to making decisions concerning
millions of people.
As you see, he is. No murder allowed.
*****
Based on what?
Mat 25, et al.
while forbidding murder the bible seems to give very little
information about how to deal humanely with those unfortunate
people that end up in a vegative state on a life support
machine.
And everything it does say is opposed to murdering them.
So the Christian god likes to allow people to be vegetables for
the rest of their natural life or even worse trapped in a
completely unresponsive body. As Christians don't claim to
reincarnate or anything this seems a needlessly cruel thing for
a deity to do.
In case you didn't know, Puke is a delusional troll.
Oh well at least I can rest assured that he won't be around if I
ever have the misfortune to end up in a permanent coma for some
reason.
Puke already has the personal experience of being brain dead.
I thought he was some kind of christian not a zen Buddhist lol, can
he clap with one hand.
No, puke is not a true xtian but rather just another typical
hypocritical scumbag cult follower who (falsly) claims to be one.
He probably should not be quoting the pope then, xtian factions are
usually quite competitive and many don't like el papa much.
Nobody likes puke either.
Especially the comatose, well at least if they had the option.
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
17 Sep 2007 12:37:35 PM |
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On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:23:41 +0100, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote:
Based on what?
Mat 25, et al.
while forbidding murder the bible seems to give very little
information about how to deal humanely with those unfortunate people that
end up in a vegative state on a life support machine.
And everything it does say is opposed to murdering them.
So the Christian god likes to allow people to be vegetables for the rest of
their natural life or even worse trapped in a completely unresponsive body.
That state draws out a lot of love of the people around said unresponsive
person.
What is the reason for killing said unresponsive person other than "an atheist
saying give me the money".
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
15 Sep 2007 11:41:58 PM |
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J Young <younginsights@aol.com> wrote:
His Holiness is a man who obviously loves and values life.
Which is why he has so many children.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
16 Sep 2007 12:09:46 PM |
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On 16 Sep 2007 04:41:58 GMT, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
J Young <younginsights@aol.com> wrote:
His Holiness is a man who obviously loves and values life.
Which is why he has so many children.
He gives his life to God. You give yours to satan.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "Paul Duca" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
16 Sep 2007 09:26:47 PM |
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On Sep 16, 1:09 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
On 16 Sep 2007 04:41:58 GMT, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
J Young <younginsig...@aol.com> wrote:
His Holiness is a man who obviously loves and values life.
Which is why he has so many children.
He gives his life to God.
And like Duke, will only get back garbage.
Paul
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| User: "Syd M." |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
17 Sep 2007 03:01:17 AM |
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On Sep 16, 1:09 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
On 16 Sep 2007 04:41:58 GMT, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
J Young <younginsig...@aol.com> wrote:
His Holiness is a man who obviously loves and values life.
Which is why he has so many children.
He gives his life to God. You give yours to satan.
<Yawn>
PDW
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
16 Sep 2007 12:41:54 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 16 Sep 2007 04:41:58 GMT, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
J Young <younginsights@aol.com> wrote:
His Holiness is a man who obviously loves and values life.
Which is why he has so many children.
He gives his life to God.
Looks like he gave his life to his church. Compare the pope's life
with the life of Jesus.
You give yours to satan.
That's how people know that you worship satan - you lie with abandon.
--
Ray Fischer
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
17 Sep 2007 05:06:17 AM |
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On 16 Sep 2007 17:41:54 GMT, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
J Young <younginsights@aol.com> wrote:
His Holiness is a man who obviously loves and values life.
Which is why he has so many children.
He gives his life to God.
Looks like he gave his life to his church. Compare the pope's life
with the life of Jesus.
Actually you got it right for a change.
You give yours to satan.
That's how people know that you worship satan - you lie with abandon.
No, I just go by what I see you say.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
18 Sep 2007 01:00:08 AM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 16 Sep 2007 17:41:54 GMT, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
J Young <younginsights@aol.com> wrote:
His Holiness is a man who obviously loves and values life.
Which is why he has so many children.
He gives his life to God.
Looks like he gave his life to his church. Compare the pope's life
with the life of Jesus.
Actually you got it right for a change.
Church, not God.
You give yours to satan.
That's how people know that you worship satan - you lie with abandon.
No, I just go by what I see you say.
More proof that you have been corrupted by your church.
--
Ray Fischer
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
18 Sep 2007 04:45:15 AM |
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On 18 Sep 2007 06:00:08 GMT, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
J Young <younginsights@aol.com> wrote:
His Holiness is a man who obviously loves and values life.
Which is why he has so many children.
He gives his life to God.
Looks like he gave his life to his church. Compare the pope's life
with the life of Jesus.
Actually you got it right for a change.
Church, not God.
From God comes Church.
You give yours to satan.
That's how people know that you worship satan - you lie with abandon.
No, I just go by what I see you say.
More proof that you have been corrupted by your church.
More evidence that you just bleat like a sheep with nothing to say.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
18 Sep 2007 12:42:15 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
rfischer@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
His Holiness is a man who obviously loves and values life.
Which is why he has so many children.
He gives his life to God.
Looks like he gave his life to his church. Compare the pope's life
with the life of Jesus.
Actually you got it right for a change.
Church, not God.
From God comes Church.
Nope. Church comes from people.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
18 Sep 2007 12:53:56 PM |
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On 18 Sep 2007 17:42:15 GMT, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
Looks like he gave his life to his church. Compare the pope's life
with the life of Jesus.
Actually you got it right for a change.
Church, not God.
From God comes Church.
Nope. Church comes from people.
Sorry, bubba, but you ignore some points.
1. The Church IS the people.
2. A priest gives his life to God to care for the Church.
But, for an unlearned person, you didn't do too bad.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
18 Sep 2007 11:18:18 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 18 Sep 2007 17:42:15 GMT, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
Looks like he gave his life to his church. Compare the pope's life
with the life of Jesus.
Actually you got it right for a change.
Church, not God.
From God comes Church.
Nope. Church comes from people.
Sorry, bubba, but you ignore some points.
1. The Church IS the people.
No, it isn't. The church leadership only believes that they get to
make rules for all of humanity.
2. A priest gives his life to God to care for the Church.
No, he gives his life to the church.
--
Ray Fischer
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Rules Patients in Permanent Vegetative State May Not be Denied Artificial Nutrition and Hydration |
23 Sep 2007 12:45:47 PM |
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On 19 Sep 2007 04:18:18 GMT, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
Sorry, bubba, but you ignore some points.
1. The Church IS the people.
No, it isn't. The church leadership only believes that they get to
make rules for all of humanity.
Sorry, raised face, but the Church is the Body of Christ, the people.
2. A priest gives his life to God to care for the Church.
No, he gives his life to the church.
To the people, the Body of Christ. And that means to God.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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