Religions > Atheism > Pope Uses Term "Intelligent Design" In Talk On Origin Of Universe, Life
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"words of truth" |
| Date: |
12 Nov 2005 05:01:41 PM |
| Object: |
Pope Uses Term "Intelligent Design" In Talk On Origin Of Universe, Life |
http://post-darwinist.blogspot.com/2005/11/pope-uses-term-intelligent-desig=
n-in.html
Saturday, November 12, 2005
Pope uses term "intelligent design" in talk on origin of universe, life
It appears, from a reliable source, that the Pope used words in Italian
that mean "intelligent design" in a recent address. In other words, the
functionally equivalent term that North American intelligent design
advocates use. This means, in turn, that he appears unconcerned about
the risks of being identified with them.
In that case, the Pope was signalling clearly that intelligent design
of the universe and life is indeed the correct Catholic view. (That
does not mean that the Catholic Church necessarily endorses any
specific hypothesis about where the design is to be found, as in, for
example, the motor-like bacterial flagellum).
Cardinal Schonborn, who first argued early in July in the New York
Times that the Catholic Church could not support Darwinism is
translating the Pope's term as "intelligent design" on his own Web
site. (See below for link.)
(Note: This story is reposted from the last version yesterday, in an
effort to address problems with visual display. If you are here, no
need to go back there, but you might want to look at this, which ran
early yesterday, before my first source phoned.)
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Why you read Blogs ....
While all this is happening in the real religious world, major US media
are following holy moonbat Pat Robertson who has announced that
hereafter the Almighty might not hear Dover, Pennsylvania's cries for
help during a disaster because "You just rejected him from your city."
Essentially, the town had turned out to defeat the eight Dover school
board members who had involved the town in a lawsuit over the teaching
of intelligent design. Those poor Dover ratepayers can't win for losing
because if they hadn't turfed those councillors, I would myself have
sicced the High Goddess of Fiscal Vengeance on them. See, anyone can
play at Holy Moonbat, even me. Now back to the important religious
story ...
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
My original source from yesterday afternoon told me by phone that, now
that translations have been checked,
He apparently did use the term "intelligent design." Whoever was
translating from the Italian had "intelligent plan" in one case and
"intelligent project" in another. But he is standing right with
Cardinal Schonborn and there are several photographs on the wire about
their meeting that day and on the previous day. On the Cardinal's Web
site he specifically says that the Pope supports Cardinal Schonborn's
positon. It says he spoke of "intelligenten plan" in German (and in
parenthesis it says in English "intelligent design"). This has been
confirmed by his office and and it's all over this Web site and the
media have missed it. It was a talk of creation based on an analysis of
the Psalms done by Pope Paul II. At the end of it, he speaks of being
able to understand God's creation through reason alone and then he
refers to it as "intelligent plan", and "intelligent design" of the
cosmos.
Cardinal Schonborn states on his Web site that the Pope supports him
("Pabst st=FCtzt Position Kardinal Sch=F6nborns"), and he helpfully
offers that the German "intelligenten Plans" means "intelligent
design".
If there is an English translation, I am not seeing it yet, but here's
a picture of Benedict XVI and Schonborn in B16's study. It doesn't look
like B16 thinks Schonborn has done anything wrong or bad.
Here's the German:
According to Schonborn,
Papst Benedikt XVI. unterst=FCtzt die Position von Kardinal Christoph
Sch=F6nborn in der Auseinandersetzung um den Evolutionismus.
International hat gr=F6=DFte Beachtung gefunden, dass der Papst am
Mittwoch, 9. November 2005, bei der Generalaudienz,- an der Kardinal
Sch=F6nborn an der Spitze der sterreichischen Bischofskonferenz
teilnahm, in seiner Meditation zum Psalm 135 ausdr=FCcklich vom
"intelligenten Plan" des Kosmos sprach. Der Begriff des "intelligenten
Plans" ("intelligent design") hatte auch den Aufsehen erregenden
Meinungskommentar des Wiener Erzbischofs in der "New York Times" vom 7.
Juli 2005 gepr=E4gt.
My German's rusty, but it seems to mean
Pope Benedict XVI supported the position of Cardinal Christoph
Schonborn in the explanation of evolution. It has met with great
international attention that the Pope, on Wednesday, November 9, 2005,
at a general audience, - at the close of the Austrian Bishops'
conference, in which Cardinal Schonborn took part, in his mediation on
Psalm 135 - spoke explicitly about the "intelligent design" [plan,
project] of the cosmos. The idea of "intelligent design"
["intellegenten Plans"] had also resulted in a controversial op-ed by
the Viennese Archbishop, published in the New York Times, July 7, 2005.
Fair enough for the German, but did the Italian really mean
"intelligent design"?
This just in, from a priest and senior philosophy professor at a
Vatican university in Rome; he has lived in Rome for more than 20 years
and speaks fluent Italian:
An article of L'avvenire, Italian Catholic daily newspaper, published
Sept. 29, 2005, says:
"Nove anni fa mosse le acque del dibattito sull'evoluzionismo con il
suo Darwin's Black Box (=ABLa scatola nera di Darwin=BB). Da allora la
teoria del =ABprogetto=BB (o disegno, come ormai si traduce)
=ABintelligente=BB (Intelligent Design, ID) ha fatto un salto di qualit=E0
e di popolarit=E0, finendo con l'essere saldata (e spesso confusa) con
le posizioni creazioniste del fondamentalismo riformato, che vuole
bandire il darwinismo dalle scuole."
This is exactly the kind of newspaper the Pope and his staff might
read, although of course they probably also look at non Catholic press.
You can find the whole article online.
I also give you the whole text below.
An article published on ECplanet, that can be found at the address:
http://www.ecplanet.com/canale/scienza-1/ricerche-21/0/0/14540/it/ecplanet.=
rxdf
speaks about Discovery Institute. At a certain point it says:
"Cos=EC come l'orologio rivela nella sua struttura una composizione di
parti atte ad un preciso scopo, ovvero il progetto del creatore, cos=EC
anche la complessa struttura biologica della materia rivela un
disegno."
The site
http://www.fattisentire.net/modules.php?name=3DNews&file=3Darticle&sid=3D15=
60
Speaking about Card. Poupard, says at a certain point:
"E non =E8 =ABcreazionismo=BB. Il vero nome della teoria =E8
=ABintelligent design=BB: che non significa, come dicono i giornali,
=ABdisegno intelligente=BB bens=EC =ABprogetto intelligente=BB.
E questa teoria non dice, come ripetono i giornali e il cardinale
Poupard, che il mondo vivente =E8 cos=EC complesso, da richiedere di
postulare un creatore di infinita intelligenza: questa =E8 filosofia da
bar Sport, non quello che dicono i sostenitori della nuova teoria."
Other exemple, the site:
http://www.fisicamente.net/index-888.htm
begins an article with:
"L'attacco alla cultura scientifica vorrebbe stabilire il primato
morale della religione cattolica. La "teoria del progetto intelligente"
mette sotto accusa le tesi evoluzioniste. Ma in gioco non vi =E8 solo la
scienza"
Last exemple:
http://www.technologyreview.it/index.php?p=3Darticle&a=3D484
"Si tratta del confronto, per ora quasi tutto americano, tra gli
evoluzionisti, che credono alla selezione naturale come meccanismo di
diversificazione delle specie, e i sostenitori del Progetto
Intelligente (Intelligent Design, ID), che vedono in ogni essere
vivente, cos=EC come =E8 oggi, il risultato di un progetto intelligente
riconducibile a una capacit=E0 intellettuale misteriosa e grandiosa."
I think therefore that progetto intelligente can be considered a usual
translation of intelligent design.
At least one worthy has already rushed into print to announce that this
cannot possibly be true. Just as Stephen Jay Gould could not have been
an indifferent Darwinist (as one of his friends thinks he was), so the
Pope must somehow be a Darwinist. Apparently, everyone in the world is
really a Darwinist, including those of us who have got past it.
For now, I am calling Schonborn as right and the US media as still
trying to reach Rewrite (to rewrite the script so that the Pope really
IS a Darwinist), when they are not chasing moonbats.
If you like this blog, check out my award-winning book on the
intelligent design controversy, By Design or by Chance?. You can read
excerpts as well.
Blog policy note: I have possibly figured out how to moderate comments
before they appear, so am re-enabling comments on a trial basis.
Regular readers may recall that for a while I disabled comments due to
persistent problems with defamation and obscenity. One person, who is
probably not in the running for Rocket Scientist of the Year, made a
defamatory remark about an American attorney who has demonstrated his
willingness to sue in cases of defamation! After that episode, a legal
advisor strictly warned me to either permit no comments or else make no
effort to moderate them - and advertise the fact that I don't. For a
while I simply chose the first way and permitted no comments. I am
risking this third way, now that I find I can do it more like a genuine
Letters to the Editor column, and screen out material unsuitable for
publication in advance. (I've been in the news business for nearly
thirty-five years, so I think I can handle an LTE scenario.) So the
person who enjoys writing obscene raps should realize that the delete
key is the only thing that will ever see them. If this system does not
work, I will go back to permitting no comments.
Are you looking for one of the following stories?
"Academic Freedom Watch : Here's the real, ugly story behind the claim
that 'intelligent design isn't science'?".
Roseville, California, lawyer Larry Caldwell is suing over the use of
tax money by Darwin lobby groups to promote religious views that accept
Darwinian evolution (as opposed to ones that don't). I'm pegging
this one as the next big story. See also the ruling on tax funds. Note
the line that the "free speech" people take.
How to freak out your bio prof? What happened when a student bypassed
the usual route of getting frogs drunk and dropping them down the
chancellor's robes, and tried questioning Darwinism instead.
Christoph, Cardinal Schonbon is not backing down from his contention
that Darwinism is incompatible with Catholic faith, and Pope Benedict
XVI probably thinks that's just fine. Major US media have been trying
to reach rewrite for months, with no success.
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| User: "Phÿltêr" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Uses Term "Intelligent Design" In Talk On Origin Of Universe, Life |
13 Nov 2005 03:16:10 AM |
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"words of truth" <wordsoftruth@hoshmail.com> astounded us with:
news:1131836097.627440.41660@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
http://post-darwinist.blogspot.com/2005/11/pope-uses-term-intelligent-des
ign-in.html
Saturday, November 12, 2005
Pope uses term "intelligent design" in talk on origin of universe, life
No one but brain dead christers give 2 fucks WHAT Ratfucker the Nazi says,
you addled *****!!
--
Phÿltêr
Alt.Atheism #1938
Denizen of Darkness #44 & AFJC Antipodean Attaché
Remove "s" to respond
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Uses Term "Intelligent Design" In Talk On Origin Of Universe, Life |
12 Nov 2005 05:45:04 PM |
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"words of truth" <wordsoftruth@hoshmail.com> wrote in
news:1131836097.627440.41660@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
http://post-darwinist.blogspot.com/2005/11/pope-uses-term-intelligent-d
esign-in.html
Ah, one more reason not to believe the pope.
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
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| User: "Tim K." |
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| Title: Re: Pope Uses Term "Intelligent Design" In Talk On Origin Of Universe, Life |
12 Nov 2005 07:03:15 PM |
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"words of truth" <wordsoftruth@hoshmail.com> wrote in message
news:1131836097.627440.41660@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
http://post-darwinist.blogspot.com/2005/11/pope-uses-term-intelligent-design-in.html
Saturday, November 12, 2005
Pope uses term "intelligent design" in talk on origin of universe, life
And the Pope's credentials to speak about biology are.....?
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Uses Term "Intelligent Design" In Talk On Origin Of Universe, Life |
14 Nov 2005 04:37:08 PM |
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Intelligent plan for the cosmos. This effectively lays the seeds of
Evolution. It does NOT mean that Genesis is literally true as the
evangelicals believe.
Let us take a simple example. Without Carbon there can be no Evolution
and without a fortunate juxtaposition of nuclear forces Carbon could
not have formed within stars.
Science teaches us howe, Religion why. Part of the reason why is to
enable Evolution. It seems to me that that is simply what is being said.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Uses Term "Intelligent Design" In Talk On Origin Of Universe, Life |
14 Nov 2005 05:37:36 PM |
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On 14 Nov 2005 14:37:08 -0800, wrote:
Intelligent plan for the cosmos. This effectively lays the seeds of
Evolution. It does NOT mean that Genesis is literally true as the
evangelicals believe.
Let us take a simple example. Without Carbon there can be no Evolution
and without a fortunate juxtaposition of nuclear forces Carbon could
not have formed within stars.
Science teaches us howe, Religion why. Part of the reason why is to
enable Evolution. It seems to me that that is simply what is being said.
Religion doesn't teach why. It has its myths, but that's all.
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| User: "655321" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Uses Term "Intelligent Design" In Talk On Origin Of Universe, Life |
13 Nov 2005 03:37:02 AM |
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On 2005-11-12 15:01:41 -0800, "words of truth"
<wordsoftruth@hoshmail.com> said:
Pope uses term "intelligent design" in talk on origin of universe, life
But the big question is: Who asked him?
--
GlennGlenn (655321) -- aa#825 --
I am not famous, I am notorious. And if I am rich, it is because I have
taken my wages in people.
- Quentin Crisp
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| User: "Matt Giwer" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Uses Term "Intelligent Design" In Talk On Origin Of Universe,Life |
12 Nov 2005 08:42:41 PM |
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words of truth wrote:
http://post-darwinist.blogspot.com/2005/11/pope-uses-term-intelligent-design-in.html
Saturday, November 12, 2005
Pope uses term "intelligent design" in talk on origin of universe, life
And if the christian fundies quote the Pope it will be another miracle.
However the itself is idiomatic in English. If you never heard the term before you would have no
idea what it means or refers to.
We have no idea what the term means in the language in which it was used. it may be as old as the
hills in the RC church. The term "god's plan" is as old as the hills for the RCs. This term may have
been long associated with god's plan discussions.
--
Ich bin ein Palsestinian.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3530
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
Old Testament http://www.giwersworld.org/bible/ot.phtml a6
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| User: "Matt Giwer" |
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| Title: Re: Pope Uses Term "Intelligent Design" In Talk On Origin Of Universe,Life |
13 Nov 2005 09:56:56 PM |
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Matt Giwer wrote:
However the itself is idiomatic in English. If you never heard the
term before you would have no idea what it means or refers to.
However the term intelligent design is idiomatic in English
--
Israelis say the Krystallnacht was no worse than uprooting jews
from Gaza. Who am I to argue?
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3503
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
commentary http://www.giwersworld.org/opinion/running.phtml a5
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