| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Dr. Jai Maharaj" |
| Date: |
10 Apr 2005 04:09:46 PM |
| Object: |
POPE'S PRIVATE SECRETARY SAW 'MIRACLE': REPORT |
Pope's private secretary saw "miracle": report
AFP
Khaleej Times Online
Sunday, April 10, 2005
VATICAN CITY - The private secretary of the late Pope
John Paul II saw the pontiff perform what could be
claimed as a miracle, one of the key stages to becoming a
saint, Italy's La Stampa newspaper reported Sunday.
It quoted Archbishop Stanislaw Dziwisz as relating how an
American who was seriously ill received communion from
the pope, and was cured.
The incident happened in 1998, but Dziwisz, who was John
Paul II's closest confidant for 40 years, spoke of the
incident three years ago to reporters, who revealed it
Sunday.
According to the report, Dziwisz told how an acquaintance
had asked him if an American friend who was very ill with
a brain tumor could meet the pope.
The acquaintance said the dying man had only three
wishes: to see John Paul II, go on a pilgrimage to
Jerusalem, and return to the United States to die.
"I remember him very well, his face showed he was ill,"
Dziwisz said. "I also remember that he had no hair, which
was clearly due to the chemotherapy (treatment) he was
having."
The pope, at the time at his Castelgandolfo retreat
outside Rome, led a private mass at which the sick man
received communion, the holiest part of the Roman
Catholic ritual.
Later, Dziwisz's acquaintance rang him to say that the
man had been cured, "his tumor completely disappeared in
just a few hours."
In his account of the incident, Dziwisz did not speak of
a miracle but of a sign of "the supreme power of God"
which surpassed human understanding.
La Stampa, however, pointed to the clamour at John Paul
II's funeral Friday for him to be made a saint, and said
it could be interpreted as a miracle.
If he were to be canonised -- he made more saints than
all his predecessors combined -- his case must pass three
hurdles.
First is a ruling that he has led an exemplary life. Next
is beatification following proof of a miracle as a result
of his intercession.
The final stage, canonisation, requires at least one more
miracle.
Earlier this week, a Mexican teenager claimed the late
pope had performed a "miracle" on him 15 years ago that
cured his leukemia, while a nun in Colombia has said he
cured her of an illness affecting her balance.
On Saturday, Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls
pointed out in answer to a question on sainthood that it
was up to the next pope to decide.
He said any such decision lay "in the sole competency" of
the next pope.
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle.asp?xfile=data/theworld/2005/April/theworld_April239.xml§ion=theworld
Faithful wave a banner reading 'Santo Subito', calling
for immediate canonisation of Pope John Paul II during
his funeral in St. Peter's Square at the Vatican City.
The world's smallest state was shrinking back to its
normal tiny size as the multitude of mourners who
descended on Vatican City for the funeral of Pope John
Paul II withdrew in a mass exodus.(AFP/DDP/Johannes
Simon)
- - - - - - -
Posted on 4/10/2005 1:51:13 PM PDT by NYer
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
End of forwarded message
Discussion here:
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"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
- Matthew 10:34-36.
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| User: "navi-gater" |
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| Title: Re: POPE'S PRIVATE SECRETARY SAW 'MIRACLE': REPORT |
11 Apr 2005 03:57:03 PM |
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(Dr. Jai Maharaj) wrote in news:miuqo3964ofNzO@ShiAa:
Earlier this week, a Mexican teenager claimed the late
pope had performed a "miracle" on him 15 years ago that
cured his leukemia,
Like other catholics I take it he "chased the devil out of her" with his
pink wand of god.
Good ole pope - keeping catholic pedophilia traditions alive today as they
have been for centuries.
while a nun in Colombia has said he
cured her of an illness affecting her balance.
Another alcoholic nun - pope hid the booze on this one - I was there!
gater.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: POPE'S PRIVATE SECRETARY SAW 'MIRACLE': REPORT |
10 Apr 2005 07:39:46 PM |
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Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
Pope's private secretary saw "miracle": report
AFP
Khaleej Times Online
Sunday, April 10, 2005
VATICAN CITY - The private secretary of the late Pope
John Paul II saw the pontiff perform what could be
claimed as a miracle, one of the key stages to becoming a
saint, Italy's La Stampa newspaper reported Sunday.
He accomplished greater miracles than that; he turned thugs into saints
(a time-honored tradition).
http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?printerFriendly=true&ArtKey=stepinac
The English Churchman recently carried the following comment:
The real activities of Stepinac during World War II are graphically
documented in the chapter entitled "Monsignor Stepinac's Croatia" in
Edmund Paris' book The Vatican against Europe. Having "welcomed the
creation of the Nazi puppet Croat state", Stepinac sat in the Ustashi
Parliament which approved the policy of extermination of the Russian
Orthodox Church and the Jews, Gypsies and communists. Stepinac wrote in
the Croatian Sentinel on 1st January, 1942: "Hitler is an envoy of
God."
The canonisation of this Romanist thug, Jan Sarkander (1576-1620),
caused widespread anger among Czech Protestants.
The beatification and canonisation of these murdering thugs has not
drawn as much as a solitary squeak of protest from the leaders of the
ecumenical churches in the United Kingdom.
STEPINAC'S PERSONAL CULPABILITY
http://www.pavelicpapers.com/features/essays/psg.html
As archbishop of Zagreb and military vicar to the armed forces and the
Ustashe, Stepinac was the de facto head of the Catholic Church in
Croatia during the Second World War. In a regime that counted its
Catholicism as the core of its national identity, the Archbishop's
importance and influence in the events that transpired there during and
after the war were substantial.
There is no question that he initially welcomed the establishment of
the Ustashe state as the fulfillment of centuries of Croatian
aspirations for independence. In a pastoral letter published less than
a month after the founding of the NDH, Stepinac consecrates and
legitimizes the new regime:
For as confused as today's fateful events may be, as varying as the
factors may be that have influence on the course of events, one can
nonetheless see the working of the divine hand. [16.]
He likewise lauded the enactment of Catholic dogma into law that marked
the initial stages of the regime. He looked with particular favor on
laws that meted out the death penalty for abortion and 30 day in jail
for swearing. [17.] There is no doubt either that he welcomed the
elimination of religious tolerance. In a diary entry that details his
first meeting with the poglavnik Stepinac notes with evident approval
the coming suppression of rival faiths.
The Archbishop gave his blessing for his work.... When the Archbishop
had finished, the poglavnik answered that he wanted to give all his
help to the Catholic Church. He also said the would uproot the sect of
Old Catholics which was nothing more than a society for divorce. He
went on to say that he would not show tolerance toward the Orthodox
Serbian Church because, as he saw things, it was not a church but a
political organization. All this left the Archbishop with the
impression that the poglavnik was a sincere Catholic and that the
Church would have freedom of action, even if the Archbishop did not
delude himself into thinking that all these things could happen easily.
[18.]
The religious intolerance of the Ustashe continued to be a major factor
in Stepinac's support for the regime throughout the war. At one point,
he complained bitterly that the Italian fascist troops that were
occupying a portion of Croatia during the war were allowing so much
religious freedom that it was threatening the stability of the state.
To the Bishop of Mostar Stepinac wrote,
The Italians have returned and resumed civil and military authority.
The schismatic Churches have immediately come to life again, and the
Orthodox priests, in hiding up till now, have reappeared in freedom.
The Italians seem to be favorably disposed toward Serbs and severe
toward Catholics. [19.]
He addressed a similar complaint to the Minister for Italian Affairs at
Zagreb:
It so happens that in the Croatian territory annexed to Italy a
constant decline in religious life is to be observed, and a certain
discernible shift from Catholicism to schism. If that most Catholic
part of Croatia should cease in the future to be so, the blame and the
responsibility before God and history will lie with Catholic Italy. The
religious aspect of the problem I am discussing makes it my duty to
speak in such plain and open terms, since I am responsible for the
religious well-being of Croatia. [20.]
Stepinac also explored the possibilities for enriching the church at
the expense of its dispossessed Orthodox rivals. The Archbishop
specifically petitioned the poglavnik to hand over the Orahovica Serb
monastery to Trappists whom Hitler had expelled from their monastery at
Reichenberg.
Although Stepinac was fully in accord with the clero-fascist agenda of
criminalizing dissent and driving it underground, he became rather less
sanguine about actual genocide. In his sermons after1942 there are
veiled protests against the extreme methods the Ustashe were employing
to eradicate the Serbs, particularly when these methods clashed with
matters of religious doctrine. He directly challenged the authority of
the Ustashe government to determine policy concerning baptism and
conversion. As part of their program of ethnic cleansing, the Ustashe
government wanted to limit options of conversion for those elements of
the population that they had targeted for death (primarily Serbian
Orthodox intellectuals) and this the Archbishop refused to sanction.
Stepinac eventually questioned the sincerity of the mass conversions
conducted at the point of the gun. He later personally intervened to
save a number of individuals, both Orthodox and Jewish, from the
Ustashe. [21.] This level of opposition from such a key church official
prompted Pavelic to secretly petition the Vatican for Stepinac's
removal. [22.]
On the basis of such sporadic acts of humanitarianism in the later
years of the war some latter day Croatian nationalists have petitioned
the Israeli Yad Vashem to include Stepinac on the role of Righteous.
Their request was has been denied twice. A representative of Yad Vashem
noted that "persons who assisted Jews but simultaneously collaborated
or were closely linked with a Fascist regime which took part in the
Nazi orchestrated persecution of Jews may be disqualified for the
Righteous title."
Some time after the war Stepinac was put on trial by the Communist
government of Yugoslavia after repeated requests to the Vatican
requesting his removal were ignored. He was tried for collaboration
with the Ustashe and for his support of the ex-Ustashe Krizari
(Crusaders), a terrorist group then conducting intermittent raids on
Yugoslav territory. Although the conduct of the trial was no doubt
biased, the guilty verdict was entirely justified. Stepinac was not
merely an anti-Communist dissident. During the war he had aided and
abetted an invading enemy and presided over a national clergy that had
supported and engaged in genocide; after the war, he supported the
actions of terrorists attempting to destabilize the government. At his
trial his only defense was "My conscience is clear," a phrase that
rings oddly hollow when juxtaposed to the day to day realities of the
Ustashe state. What kind of "saint" could have a clear conscience in
the face of the horrors that had been committed in the name of his
religion and by people under his own supervision? Only a morally
bankrupt individual would feel so little responsibility and so little
remorse. Only a morally bankrupt church could take such a man for a
saint.
Stepinac indeed suffered from the same kind of moral blindness that
afflicted the Catholic Church as a whole during this period. The
Vatican, in general, and Msgr. Montini (later Paul VI) [29.] in
particular, were extraordinarily well informed about what was happening
in Croatia and about the culpability of members of the clergy in the
atrocities. Yet the Church chose to remain silent and to this day the
Catholic Church has never even acknowledged, let alone condemned, the
atrocities committed by its representatives. In fact, pope after pope
has done the very opposite. After the war, the Church concealed fleeing
war criminal Ante Pavelic from Allied authorities in the Vatican itself
until this fact was discovered by American intelligence. They then
helped the former Ustashe dictator flee to Peron's Argentina via the
so-called Vatican Ratlines. [30.] On his deathbed in Franco's Spain in
1959 Pavelic even received a personal benediction by then pope John
XXIII. The current pope, John Paul II, has refused repeated requests to
visit the site of the Jasenovac concentration camp on his visits to
Croatia, preferring instead to exchange greetings with former Croatian
head of state and holocaust-denier Franjo Tudjman and to make a saint
of the highly compromised Stepinac.
The recent beatification of Stepinac continues this pattern of
responsibility denied and crimes sanctified. What is most inexcusable
about elevating Stepinac to sainthood lies in this covering up of
evidence of the crimes of the Church, in this rewriting of history, and
in the Church's miserable failure to learn anything from such horrible
mistakes.
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| User: "Steve Knight" |
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| Title: Re: POPE'S PRIVATE SECRETARY SAW 'MIRACLE': REPORT |
10 Apr 2005 06:36:56 PM |
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On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:09:46 GMT, (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
wrote:
snip
The incident happened in 1998, but Dziwisz, who was John
Paul II's closest confidant for 40 years, spoke of the
incident three years ago to reporters, who revealed it
Sunday.
So a 'reporter' waited three years, or until the fucker drop dead,
to report the 'miracle......
Okay, okay, alright.... We're using biblical tradition and writing
about something that 'happened' years later to prove something.
Warlord Steve
BAAWA
www.sonic.net/~wooly
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: POPE'S PRIVATE SECRETARY SAW 'MIRACLE': REPORT |
11 Apr 2005 04:41:45 AM |
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Dear Steve,
Christian's see healing all the time in the name of Jesus Christ. It
tends to be reported on later because someone new to Christianity is
shocked by it and has a strong desire to tell the world of the one
incident. Just ordinary every day people call on Christ's healing power
through The Holy Spirit of God. There are thousands of links, books,
essays, articles, science studies, news reports, testimony and so forth
all over the world to the power of healing through Christ.
http://www.americaslastdays.com/miracles/Healings/Lung%20Cancer%20-%20Lombardi.htm
http://www.childrensermons.com/sermons/healed.htm
http://praisenation.com/healing.htm
http://members.datafast.net.au/sggram/f121.htm
http://www.flameministries.org/mike.htm
http://www.inhis.com/TestimonyPage/poppmilos.asp
However, why not go along to a healing ministry and witness for
yourself the healings of people's hearts, minds, spirit and bodies.
In Christ's love
Carol T
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: POPE'S PRIVATE SECRETARY SAW 'MIRACLE': REPORT |
11 Apr 2005 07:21:52 AM |
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<cteasd5941@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1113212505.067483.280080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Dear Steve,
Christian's see healing all the time in the name of Jesus Christ. It
tends to be reported on later because someone new to Christianity is
shocked by it and has a strong desire to tell the world of the one
incident. Just ordinary every day people call on Christ's healing power
through The Holy Spirit of God. There are thousands of links, books,
essays, articles, science studies, news reports, testimony and so forth
all over the world to the power of healing through Christ.
http://www.americaslastdays.com/miracles/Healings/Lung%20Cancer%20-%20Lombardi.htm
http://www.childrensermons.com/sermons/healed.htm
http://praisenation.com/healing.htm
http://members.datafast.net.au/sggram/f121.htm
http://www.flameministries.org/mike.htm
http://www.inhis.com/TestimonyPage/poppmilos.asp
However, why not go along to a healing ministry and witness for
yourself the healings of people's hearts, minds, spirit and bodies.
Why bother wasting one's time.
I've seen lots of people pray to be healed. Guess what they are now? Dead.
--
------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
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| User: "Clothaire" |
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| Title: Re: POPE'S PRIVATE SECRETARY SAW 'MIRACLE': REPORT |
11 Apr 2005 02:14:16 PM |
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On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:21:52 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
<cteasd5941@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1113212505.067483.280080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Dear Steve,
Christian's see healing all the time in the name of Jesus Christ. It
tends to be reported on later because someone new to Christianity is
shocked by it and has a strong desire to tell the world of the one
incident. Just ordinary every day people call on Christ's healing power
through The Holy Spirit of God. There are thousands of links, books,
essays, articles, science studies, news reports, testimony and so forth
all over the world to the power of healing through Christ.
http://www.americaslastdays.com/miracles/Healings/Lung%20Cancer%20-%20Lombardi.htm
http://www.childrensermons.com/sermons/healed.htm
http://praisenation.com/healing.htm
http://members.datafast.net.au/sggram/f121.htm
http://www.flameministries.org/mike.htm
http://www.inhis.com/TestimonyPage/poppmilos.asp
However, why not go along to a healing ministry and witness for
yourself the healings of people's hearts, minds, spirit and bodies.
Why bother wasting one's time.
I've seen lots of people pray to be healed. Guess what they are now? Dead.
The pope is one example. The faith healers make money no matter what
the result is.
Clothaire #1392 PA
"Religion is ignorance; Science is knowledge."
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: POPE'S PRIVATE SECRETARY SAW 'MIRACLE': REPORT |
12 Apr 2005 03:28:02 PM |
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wrote:
Dear Steve,
Christian's see healing all the time in the name of Jesus Christ. It
tends to be reported on later because someone new to Christianity is
shocked by it and has a strong desire to tell the world of the one
incident. Just ordinary every day people call on Christ's healing
power
through The Holy Spirit of God. There are thousands of links, books,
essays, articles, science studies, news reports, testimony and so
forth
all over the world to the power of healing through Christ.
Woman miraculously saved from benign nodule?
http://www.americaslastdays.com/miracles/Healings/Lung%20Cancer%20-%20Lombardi.htm
Only by miracles can burns heal?
http://www.childrensermons.com/sermons/healed.htm
Pastor saved from amputation 3 times! Why did he need amputation so
frequently?
http://praisenation.com/healing.htm
What healing occurred here?
http://members.datafast.net.au/sggram/f121.htm
A miracle at last, if true.
http://www.flameministries.org/mike.htm
Another miracle, if true.
http://www.inhis.com/TestimonyPage/poppmilos.asp
However, why not go along to a healing ministry and witness for
yourself the healings of people's hearts, minds, spirit and bodies.
Any healing ministry? How about these:
http://www.dharma-haven.org/tibetan/tibetan-art-of-healing.htm
http://www.dharma-haven.org/tibetan/healing.htm
Each of us a Healer: Medicine Buddha and the Karma of Healing
http://www.kheper.net/topics/Buddhism/medicinebuddha.html
A glamorous fashion consultant was once diagnosed with cancer. This is
how she attempted to alleviate her suffering:
She sent a message through a friend of hers, a student at the Vajrapani
institute in California, to ask for advice about healing practices. She
was advised to buy animals that were in danger of being killed and to
then free them in a safe place, thus enabling them to live longer.
This charming woman saved many animals from places where they were
going to be killed. She actually freed two or three thousand animals,
mostly chickens, fish, and worms. She had the chickens taken care of on
a farm, and she freed the fish in open water. She also bought two
thousand worms because they were cheap and readily available, and
released them in the garden outside her home. Liberating worms was
believed to be a particularly good idea as they go straight under the
ground when they are released. Since they have some protection there
from predators, they have a chance to live longer. It was less certain
that animals freed in forests, lakes, or the ocean would have lived
longer because they have natural enemies in those places.
It is said that when she returned to the hospital for a checkup after
doing these practices, the doctors could not find any trace of the
cancer.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: POPE'S PRIVATE SECRETARY SAW 'MIRACLE': REPORT |
11 Apr 2005 11:40:19 AM |
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wrote:
Dear Steve,
Christian's see healing all the time in the name of Jesus Christ. It
tends to be reported on later because someone new to Christianity is
shocked by it and has a strong desire to tell the world of the one
incident. Just ordinary every day people call on Christ's healing
power
through The Holy Spirit of God. There are thousands of links, books,
essays, articles, science studies, news reports, testimony and so
forth
all over the world to the power of healing through Christ.
http://www.americaslastdays.com/miracles/Healings/Lung%20Cancer%20-%20Lombardi.htm
http://www.childrensermons.com/sermons/healed.htm
http://praisenation.com/healing.htm
http://members.datafast.net.au/sggram/f121.htm
http://www.flameministries.org/mike.htm
http://www.inhis.com/TestimonyPage/poppmilos.asp
However, why not go along to a healing ministry and witness for
yourself the healings of people's hearts, minds, spirit and bodies.
In Christ's love
Carol T
Dear Carol,
This is why we have the scientific method. People's memories,
interpretations, and retelling of events are unreliable. I was standing
in line behind a lady holding a spacey-looking, exhausted kid with her
foot bandaged up. She was explaining to the cashier that the child had
slipped off the porch railing, impaled her foot on a branch, been
rushed to the hospital, had her wound cleaned, antibiotics given, and
painkillers administered. "Yes ma'am," said the woman, "Jesus was with
my little girl today!"
I thought, "Thank the stars he wasn't with me!"
You see, Christians tend to see everything good that happens as a
divine intervention, even when it's "good" only in contrast to how much
worse it *could have been. But when scientists do the math (such as a
prayer for the sick experiment), there are no benefits. Sure, some
people with cancer heal spontaneously. Some of them are atheist, or
have never met the pope or even the wondrous and supernaturally
powerful, albeit humble, Doc Maharaj.
Testimony doesn't mean diddly. When documented and studied, all the
miracles fade like fog in sunlight.
Yours in Reason,
Kermit
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| User: "Steve Knight" |
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| Title: Re: POPE'S PRIVATE SECRETARY SAW 'MIRACLE': REPORT |
11 Apr 2005 07:40:25 PM |
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On 11 Apr 2005 02:41:45 -0700, "cteasd5941@gmail.com"
<cteasd5941@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Steve,
Christian's see healing all the time in the name of Jesus Christ. It
tends to be reported on later because someone new to Christianity is
shocked by it and has a strong desire to tell the world of the one
incident.
You can't 'possible' expect me to believe that, do you? What
factual evidence do you have to support your statement. 'People are
shocked' and report it later! Years? Centuries? Because that is what
every superstition does to claim a miracle.
Just ordinary every day people call on Christ's healing power
through The Holy Spirit of God. There are thousands of links, books,
essays, articles, science studies, news reports, testimony and so forth
all over the world to the power of healing through Christ.
Bunk. Your problem is, you read superstitious prattle and believe
it. Have you ever, even once, investigated an incident with a critical
eye. Not relying on second person accounts or rumors?
However, why not go along to a healing ministry and witness for
yourself the healings of people's hearts, minds, spirit and bodies.
I would if I was a voyeur but the experience would only creep me
out. Being in a room filled with intoxicated Alpha junkies would cause
me to wake up screaming in the middle of the night.
On the truly down side, how many people do you think die that are
hooked on faith healing? A hundred? A thousand? The bottom line is
faith healing causes more harm than good. There are no magic pixies
that cure human beings.
Warlord Steve
BAAWA
www.sonic.net/~wooly
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