| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"L. Raymond" |
| Date: |
13 Oct 2003 12:45:29 AM |
| Object: |
Possibly OT: Repeal the 17th Amendment? |
This evening I was amusing myself by browsing a site called
"Intellectual Conservative" (http://www.intellectualconservative.com/)
and saw a blrub urging the repeal of the 17th amendment to the US
constitution. This amendment is what gave the people of each state
the power to select their two senators rather than having the state's
legislature appoint them. Here is the proposed text:
http://www.articlev.com/repeal_the_17th_amendment.htm
The reason I used "Possibly OT" is that I did a quick web search on
this movement, viewed the first dozen or so links, and with two
exceptions every site supporting it was a religious conservative site.
(One of the exceptions was a FindLaw columnist who is a former Counsel
to Richard Nixon.) Is anyone here familiar with this? Is it, as it
seems at first glance, another attempt by the religious right to
manipulate the US legal system in order to foist their own, those too
far right for normal people to elect, into office? Does anyone think
this would actually tone down the religious ugliness currently
festering in the ranks of government?
.
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Re: Possibly OT: Repeal the 17th Amendment? |
13 Oct 2003 10:53:28 AM |
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"L. Raymond" wrote:
This evening I was amusing myself by browsing a site called
"Intellectual Conservative" (http://www.intellectualconservative.com/)
and saw a blrub urging the repeal of the 17th amendment to the US
constitution. This amendment is what gave the people of each state
the power to select their two senators rather than having the state's
legislature appoint them. Here is the proposed text:
http://www.articlev.com/repeal_the_17th_amendment.htm
We did a debate on this very issue *mumble* years ago in my high school AP
government class.
Originally, the Senate represented the *states*, while the House
represented the people. Having the Senators selected by the legislatures
and giving them longer terms of office was supposed to balance the "mob
rule" the Founders expected from the House. The Senators were, in theory,
career politicians of proven values, less likely to be swayed by popular
opinion and "movement of the hour."
By the end of the 19th century, however, many states (especially those in
the west) were holding public elections with the legislatures approving
the elected choice pro forma. Thus, the 17th Amendment, which legalized
what had become standard procedure.
The reason I used "Possibly OT" is that I did a quick web search on
this movement, viewed the first dozen or so links, and with two
exceptions every site supporting it was a religious conservative site.
(One of the exceptions was a FindLaw columnist who is a former Counsel
to Richard Nixon.) Is anyone here familiar with this? Is it, as it
seems at first glance, another attempt by the religious right to
manipulate the US legal system in order to foist their own, those too
far right for normal people to elect, into office? Does anyone think
this would actually tone down the religious ugliness currently
festering in the ranks of government?
The high school debated ended with a majority of the students rejecting
repeal of the 17th Amendment. The reason was that the longer term gives
Senators some freedom of movement from popular opinion, but does not
shelter them from it entirely. The 17th still gives voters a voice in who
they want to represent them and a means to remove them from office.
Popularly elected Senators must appeal to the majority of the voters as a
whole, not just to a majority of those who hold power in the Legislature;
therefore Senators tend to be more moderate. If a radical majority holds
power in the Legislature, then they and they alone would be able to
appoint Senators, regardless of the views or opinions of the majority of
the state.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"If you make yourself a sheep, the wolves will eat you."
-- Benjamin Franklin
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| User: "Bill, The Avender" |
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| Title: Re: Possibly OT: Repeal the 17th Amendment? |
13 Oct 2003 07:29:19 AM |
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In alt.atheism on Mon, 13 Oct 2003 05:45:29 GMT,
badaddress@mylinuxisp.com (L. Raymond) wrote:
This evening I was amusing myself by browsing a site called
"Intellectual Conservative" (http://www.intellectualconservative.com/)
and saw a blrub urging the repeal of the 17th amendment to the US
constitution. This amendment is what gave the people of each state
the power to select their two senators rather than having the state's
legislature appoint them. Here is the proposed text:
http://www.articlev.com/repeal_the_17th_amendment.htm
The reason I used "Possibly OT" is that I did a quick web search on
this movement, viewed the first dozen or so links, and with two
exceptions every site supporting it was a religious conservative site.
(One of the exceptions was a FindLaw columnist who is a former Counsel
to Richard Nixon.) Is anyone here familiar with this?
Not this specifically, but I'm familiar enough with fundie zealot
tactics in general to very easily believe this to be one of them.
Is it, as it
seems at first glance, another attempt by the religious right to
manipulate the US legal system in order to foist their own, those too
far right for normal people to elect, into office?
Well, _duh_... ;-)
Does anyone think
this would actually tone down the religious ugliness currently
festering in the ranks of government?
Tone it down? In a sense, perhaps. There would be no liberals left,
so they wouldn't be arguing about whether or not to outlaw things like
abortion & homosexuality. The Southern Baptists of the Reformation of
1862 would probably be laying in wait to off some of the Southern
Baptists of the Reformation of 1952, but at least the fight would take
place in a parking garage instead of in congress.
--
L8r,
Avender
- -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - --
Common is the man who can be fashioned into a
reflection of the era in which he lives.
Rare is the man who can take the era in which
he lives, and fashion it into a reflection
of himself.
- -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - --
.
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| User: "L. Raymond" |
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| Title: Re: Possibly OT: Repeal the 17th Amendment? |
14 Oct 2003 05:36:25 PM |
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(Bill, The Avender) wrote:
Is it, as it
seems at first glance, another attempt by the religious right to
manipulate the US legal system in order to foist their own, those too
far right for normal people to elect, into office?
Well, _duh_... ;-)
*ppppbbbbttt*
Tone it down? In a sense, perhaps. There would be no liberals left,
so they wouldn't be arguing about whether or not to outlaw things like
abortion & homosexuality.
That's what I was thinking, too. I wonder if there is any
*legitimate* reason to repeal the 17th.
.
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