Religions > Atheism > Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"stoney" |
| Date: |
30 Mar 2006 06:51:22 PM |
| Object: |
Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients |
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/?GT1=7850
Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET March 30, 2006
NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that
having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on
their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for
had a slightly higher rate of complications.
Researchers emphasized that their work can't address whether God exists
or answers prayers made on another's behalf. The study can only look for
an effect from prayers offered as part of the research, they said.
They also said they had no explanation for the higher complication rate
in patients who knew they were being prayed for, in comparison to
patients who only knew it was possible prayers were being said for them.
Critics said the question of God's reaction to prayers simply can't be
explored by scientific study.
The work, which followed about 1,800 patients at six medical centers,
was financed by the Templeton Foundation, which supports research into
science and religion. It will appear in the American Heart Journal.
Dr. Herbert Benson of Harvard Medical School and other scientists tested
the effect of having three Christian groups pray for particular
patients, starting the night before surgery and continuing for two
weeks. The volunteers prayed for "a successful surgery with a quick,
healthy recovery and no complications" for specific patients, for whom
they were given the first name and first initial of the last name.
The patients, meanwhile, were split into three groups of about 600
apiece: those who knew they were being prayed for, those who were prayed
for but only knew it was a possibility, and those who weren't prayed for
but were told it was a possibility.
The researchers didn't ask patients or their families and friends to
alter any plans they had for prayer, saying such a step would have been
unethical and impractical.
The study looked for any complications within 30 days of the surgery.
Results showed no effect of prayer on complication-free recovery. But 59
percent of the patients who knew they were being prayed for developed a
complication, versus 52 percent of those who were told it was just a
possibility.
Dr. Harold G. Koenig, director of the Center for Spirituality, Theology
and Health at the Duke University Medical Center, who didn't take part
in the study, said the results didn't surprise him.
"There are no scientific grounds to expect a result and there are no
real theological grounds to expect a result either," he said. "There is
no god in either the Christian, Jewish or Moslem scriptures that can be
constrained to the point that they can be predicted."
Within the Christian tradition, God would be expected to be concerned
with a person's eternal salvation, he said, and "why would God change
his plans for a particular person just because they're in a research
study?"
Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."
Copyright 2006 The Associated Press
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
|
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients |
31 Mar 2006 01:03:29 AM |
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|
In article <c4vo22lo0kju3n4v317eh9ofbk5299c2ld@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/?GT1=7850
Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET March 30, 2006
NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that
having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on
their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for
had a slightly higher rate of complications.
They must have been sinners.
<snip>
Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."
Well no kidding! How many times have we seen tests like this with the
same result? No frickin' difference!
Maybe next time they should try masks and rattles.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
|
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients |
03 Apr 2006 07:20:35 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:03:29 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <c4vo22lo0kju3n4v317eh9ofbk5299c2ld@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/?GT1=7850
Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET March 30, 2006
NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that
having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on
their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for
had a slightly higher rate of complications.
They must have been sinners.
<snip>
Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."
Well no kidding! How many times have we seen tests like this with the
same result? No frickin' difference!
Maybe next time they should try masks and rattles.
That would be an advancement.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients |
04 Apr 2006 12:20:19 AM |
|
|
In article <mte332ldo14rlbh39klt6st3ihbam4aqdh@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:03:29 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <c4vo22lo0kju3n4v317eh9ofbk5299c2ld@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/?GT1=7850
Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET March 30, 2006
NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that
having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on
their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for
had a slightly higher rate of complications.
They must have been sinners.
<snip>
Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."
Well no kidding! How many times have we seen tests like this with the
same result? No frickin' difference!
Maybe next time they should try masks and rattles.
That would be an advancement.
True. The hospitals would charge the patients more for the 'props', thus
advancing their profits.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
|
|
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients |
04 Apr 2006 03:10:18 AM |
|
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On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 22:20:19 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-67C518.22201903042006@news.giganews.com>
In article <mte332ldo14rlbh39klt6st3ihbam4aqdh@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:03:29 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <c4vo22lo0kju3n4v317eh9ofbk5299c2ld@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/?GT1=7850
Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET March 30, 2006
NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that
having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on
their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for
had a slightly higher rate of complications.
They must have been sinners.
<snip>
Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."
Well no kidding! How many times have we seen tests like this with the
same result? No frickin' difference!
Maybe next time they should try masks and rattles.
That would be an advancement.
True. The hospitals would charge the patients more for the 'props', thus
advancing their profits.
As well as advancing their prophets.
(Just what are prophets demanding as an advance these days?)
--
.
|
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients |
04 Apr 2006 03:21:21 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 17:40:18 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in alt.atheism
On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 22:20:19 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-67C518.22201903042006@news.giganews.com>
In article <mte332ldo14rlbh39klt6st3ihbam4aqdh@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:03:29 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <c4vo22lo0kju3n4v317eh9ofbk5299c2ld@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/?GT1=7850
Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET March 30, 2006
NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that
having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on
their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for
had a slightly higher rate of complications.
They must have been sinners.
<snip>
Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."
Well no kidding! How many times have we seen tests like this with the
same result? No frickin' difference!
Maybe next time they should try masks and rattles.
That would be an advancement.
True. The hospitals would charge the patients more for the 'props', thus
advancing their profits.
As well as advancing their prophets.
(Just what are prophets demanding as an advance these days?)
1500% of your lifetime income.....
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients |
04 Apr 2006 11:42:25 PM |
|
|
In article <a9l532hrm04m03n139fqe835sma9s30j5j@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 17:40:18 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in alt.atheism
On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 22:20:19 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-67C518.22201903042006@news.giganews.com>
In article <mte332ldo14rlbh39klt6st3ihbam4aqdh@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:03:29 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <c4vo22lo0kju3n4v317eh9ofbk5299c2ld@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/?GT1=7850
Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET March 30, 2006
NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that
having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on
their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for
had a slightly higher rate of complications.
They must have been sinners.
<snip>
Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."
Well no kidding! How many times have we seen tests like this with the
same result? No frickin' difference!
Maybe next time they should try masks and rattles.
That would be an advancement.
True. The hospitals would charge the patients more for the 'props', thus
advancing their profits.
As well as advancing their prophets.
(Just what are prophets demanding as an advance these days?)
1500% of your lifetime income.....
But you get repaid a hundredfold after you die, of course.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients |
06 Apr 2006 11:41:08 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 21:42:25 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <a9l532hrm04m03n139fqe835sma9s30j5j@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 17:40:18 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in alt.atheism
On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 22:20:19 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-67C518.22201903042006@news.giganews.com>
In article <mte332ldo14rlbh39klt6st3ihbam4aqdh@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:03:29 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <c4vo22lo0kju3n4v317eh9ofbk5299c2ld@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/?GT1=7850
Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET March 30, 2006
NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that
having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on
their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for
had a slightly higher rate of complications.
They must have been sinners.
<snip>
Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."
Well no kidding! How many times have we seen tests like this with the
same result? No frickin' difference!
Maybe next time they should try masks and rattles.
That would be an advancement.
True. The hospitals would charge the patients more for the 'props', thus
advancing their profits.
As well as advancing their prophets.
(Just what are prophets demanding as an advance these days?)
1500% of your lifetime income.....
But you get repaid a hundredfold after you die, of course.
SSSSSSSSssssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
you do
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients |
08 Apr 2006 01:36:29 AM |
|
|
In article <g4ha329ohtbkjqs6034d2k3u2iim7uu643@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 21:42:25 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <a9l532hrm04m03n139fqe835sma9s30j5j@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 17:40:18 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in alt.atheism
On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 22:20:19 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-67C518.22201903042006@news.giganews.com>
In article <mte332ldo14rlbh39klt6st3ihbam4aqdh@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:03:29 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <c4vo22lo0kju3n4v317eh9ofbk5299c2ld@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/?GT1=7850
Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET March 30, 2006
NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that
having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect
on
their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed
for
had a slightly higher rate of complications.
They must have been sinners.
<snip>
Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."
Well no kidding! How many times have we seen tests like this with the
same result? No frickin' difference!
Maybe next time they should try masks and rattles.
That would be an advancement.
True. The hospitals would charge the patients more for the 'props', thus
advancing their profits.
As well as advancing their prophets.
(Just what are prophets demanding as an advance these days?)
1500% of your lifetime income.....
But you get repaid a hundredfold after you die, of course.
SSSSSSSSssssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrreeeee
eeeeeeeeeee
you do
Well, they can point to the fact that no one ever complained.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients |
09 Apr 2006 05:26:42 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 07 Apr 2006 23:36:29 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <g4ha329ohtbkjqs6034d2k3u2iim7uu643@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 21:42:25 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <a9l532hrm04m03n139fqe835sma9s30j5j@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 17:40:18 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in alt.atheism
On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 22:20:19 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-67C518.22201903042006@news.giganews.com>
In article <mte332ldo14rlbh39klt6st3ihbam4aqdh@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:03:29 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <c4vo22lo0kju3n4v317eh9ofbk5299c2ld@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/?GT1=7850
Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET March 30, 2006
NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that
having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect
on
their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed
for
had a slightly higher rate of complications.
They must have been sinners.
<snip>
Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."
Well no kidding! How many times have we seen tests like this with the
same result? No frickin' difference!
Maybe next time they should try masks and rattles.
That would be an advancement.
True. The hospitals would charge the patients more for the 'props', thus
advancing their profits.
As well as advancing their prophets.
(Just what are prophets demanding as an advance these days?)
1500% of your lifetime income.....
But you get repaid a hundredfold after you die, of course.
SSSSSSSSssssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrreeeee
eeeeeeeeeee
you do
Well, they can point to the fact that no one ever complained.
When you're dead complaints aren't possible.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients |
10 Apr 2006 12:16:46 AM |
|
|
In article <1g2j32lmcnpjr4rif6dfpgg78e84vflhjt@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Fri, 07 Apr 2006 23:36:29 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <g4ha329ohtbkjqs6034d2k3u2iim7uu643@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 21:42:25 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <a9l532hrm04m03n139fqe835sma9s30j5j@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 17:40:18 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in alt.atheism
On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 22:20:19 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-67C518.22201903042006@news.giganews.com>
In article <mte332ldo14rlbh39klt6st3ihbam4aqdh@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:03:29 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <c4vo22lo0kju3n4v317eh9ofbk5299c2ld@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/?GT1=7850
Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET March 30, 2006
NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found
that
having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no
effect
on
their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being
prayed
for
had a slightly higher rate of complications.
They must have been sinners.
<snip>
Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."
Well no kidding! How many times have we seen tests like this with
the
same result? No frickin' difference!
Maybe next time they should try masks and rattles.
That would be an advancement.
True. The hospitals would charge the patients more for the 'props',
thus
advancing their profits.
As well as advancing their prophets.
(Just what are prophets demanding as an advance these days?)
1500% of your lifetime income.....
But you get repaid a hundredfold after you die, of course.
SSSSSSSSssssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrree
eee
eeeeeeeeeee
you do
Well, they can point to the fact that no one ever complained.
When you're dead complaints aren't possible.
Precisely.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients |
06 Apr 2006 07:21:00 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 09:41:08 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
- Refer: <g4ha329ohtbkjqs6034d2k3u2iim7uu643@4ax.com>
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 21:42:25 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <a9l532hrm04m03n139fqe835sma9s30j5j@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 17:40:18 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in alt.atheism
On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 22:20:19 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-67C518.22201903042006@news.giganews.com>
In article <mte332ldo14rlbh39klt6st3ihbam4aqdh@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:03:29 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <c4vo22lo0kju3n4v317eh9ofbk5299c2ld@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/?GT1=7850
Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET March 30, 2006
NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that
having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on
their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for
had a slightly higher rate of complications.
They must have been sinners.
<snip>
Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."
Well no kidding! How many times have we seen tests like this with the
same result? No frickin' difference!
Maybe next time they should try masks and rattles.
That would be an advancement.
True. The hospitals would charge the patients more for the 'props', thus
advancing their profits.
As well as advancing their prophets.
(Just what are prophets demanding as an advance these days?)
1500% of your lifetime income.....
But you get repaid a hundredfold after you die, of course.
SSSSSSSSssssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
you do
Would Pat Robertson lie to you?
--
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients |
07 Apr 2006 11:33:36 AM |
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On Fri, 07 Apr 2006 09:51:00 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in alt.atheism
On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 09:41:08 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
- Refer: <g4ha329ohtbkjqs6034d2k3u2iim7uu643@4ax.com>
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 21:42:25 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <a9l532hrm04m03n139fqe835sma9s30j5j@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 17:40:18 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in alt.atheism
On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 22:20:19 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-67C518.22201903042006@news.giganews.com>
In article <mte332ldo14rlbh39klt6st3ihbam4aqdh@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:03:29 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <c4vo22lo0kju3n4v317eh9ofbk5299c2ld@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/?GT1=7850
Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET March 30, 2006
NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that
having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on
their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for
had a slightly higher rate of complications.
They must have been sinners.
<snip>
Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."
Well no kidding! How many times have we seen tests like this with the
same result? No frickin' difference!
Maybe next time they should try masks and rattles.
That would be an advancement.
True. The hospitals would charge the patients more for the 'props', thus
advancing their profits.
As well as advancing their prophets.
(Just what are prophets demanding as an advance these days?)
1500% of your lifetime income.....
But you get repaid a hundredfold after you die, of course.
SSSSSSSSssssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
you do
Would Pat Robertson lie to you?
Joyously.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients |
08 Apr 2006 01:37:14 AM |
|
|
In article <d25d321281hf3nkjvli4kb5ub6vj2tko4l@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Fri, 07 Apr 2006 09:51:00 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in alt.atheism
On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 09:41:08 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
- Refer: <g4ha329ohtbkjqs6034d2k3u2iim7uu643@4ax.com>
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 21:42:25 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <a9l532hrm04m03n139fqe835sma9s30j5j@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 17:40:18 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in alt.atheism
On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 22:20:19 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-67C518.22201903042006@news.giganews.com>
In article <mte332ldo14rlbh39klt6st3ihbam4aqdh@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:03:29 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <c4vo22lo0kju3n4v317eh9ofbk5299c2ld@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/?GT1=7850
Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET March 30, 2006
NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found
that
having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no
effect on
their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed
for
had a slightly higher rate of complications.
They must have been sinners.
<snip>
Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."
Well no kidding! How many times have we seen tests like this with
the
same result? No frickin' difference!
Maybe next time they should try masks and rattles.
That would be an advancement.
True. The hospitals would charge the patients more for the 'props',
thus
advancing their profits.
As well as advancing their prophets.
(Just what are prophets demanding as an advance these days?)
1500% of your lifetime income.....
But you get repaid a hundredfold after you die, of course.
SSSSSSSSssssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrreee
eeeeeeeeeeeee
you do
Would Pat Robertson lie to you?
Joyously.
Religiously.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
|
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients |
04 Apr 2006 08:29:27 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 13:21:21 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
- Refer: <a9l532hrm04m03n139fqe835sma9s30j5j@4ax.com>
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 17:40:18 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in alt.atheism
On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 22:20:19 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-67C518.22201903042006@news.giganews.com>
In article <mte332ldo14rlbh39klt6st3ihbam4aqdh@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:03:29 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <c4vo22lo0kju3n4v317eh9ofbk5299c2ld@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/?GT1=7850
Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET March 30, 2006
NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that
having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on
their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for
had a slightly higher rate of complications.
They must have been sinners.
<snip>
Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."
Well no kidding! How many times have we seen tests like this with the
same result? No frickin' difference!
Maybe next time they should try masks and rattles.
That would be an advancement.
True. The hospitals would charge the patients more for the 'props', thus
advancing their profits.
As well as advancing their prophets.
(Just what are prophets demanding as an advance these days?)
1500% of your lifetime income.....
You've got that off pat.
(Robertson)
His Whollyness, Sanctitas Pasta Michael K. Gray, B.Sc, (Adel, Math Sci), M.A.C.S., M.R.S.A., MBA-BMSC (UBoS)
Sole Earthly representative of his Most Holey F.S.M.
Summus Pastifex, Bishop of Roam, in the Holey See of the Vacantcan.
Vicar of the Invisible Pink Unicorn,
Successor of the Prince of the Atheists,
Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Joint,
Primate of Congo, (Wednesdays only)
Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roaming province,
Sovereign of the State of the Vacantcan City,
Servant of the Servants of F.S.M.
Patriarch of the Waist. (Discontinued Line)
--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth
.
|
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| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients |
04 Apr 2006 11:43:15 PM |
|
|
In article <ha7632doog6vcalu3qfg432jd16ausd16t@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 13:21:21 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
- Refer: <a9l532hrm04m03n139fqe835sma9s30j5j@4ax.com>
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 17:40:18 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in alt.atheism
On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 22:20:19 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-67C518.22201903042006@news.giganews.com>
In article <mte332ldo14rlbh39klt6st3ihbam4aqdh@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:03:29 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <c4vo22lo0kju3n4v317eh9ofbk5299c2ld@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/?GT1=7850
Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET March 30, 2006
NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that
having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on
their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for
had a slightly higher rate of complications.
They must have been sinners.
<snip>
Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."
Well no kidding! How many times have we seen tests like this with the
same result? No frickin' difference!
Maybe next time they should try masks and rattles.
That would be an advancement.
True. The hospitals would charge the patients more for the 'props', thus
advancing their profits.
As well as advancing their prophets.
(Just what are prophets demanding as an advance these days?)
1500% of your lifetime income.....
You've got that off pat.
(Robertson)
His Whollyness, Sanctitas Pasta Michael K. Gray, B.Sc, (Adel, Math Sci),
M.A.C.S., M.R.S.A., MBA-BMSC (UBoS)
Sole Earthly representative of his Most Holey F.S.M.
Summus Pastifex, Bishop of Roam, in the Holey See of the Vacantcan.
Vicar of the Invisible Pink Unicorn,
Successor of the Prince of the Atheists,
Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Joint,
Primate of Congo, (Wednesdays only)
Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roaming province,
Sovereign of the State of the Vacantcan City,
Servant of the Servants of F.S.M.
Patriarch of the Waist. (Discontinued Line)
And a partridge in a pear tree.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients |
05 Apr 2006 01:43:35 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 21:43:15 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-5772CE.21431504042006@news.giganews.com>
In article <ha7632doog6vcalu3qfg432jd16ausd16t@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 13:21:21 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
- Refer: <a9l532hrm04m03n139fqe835sma9s30j5j@4ax.com>
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 17:40:18 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in alt.atheism
On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 22:20:19 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-67C518.22201903042006@news.giganews.com>
In article <mte332ldo14rlbh39klt6st3ihbam4aqdh@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:03:29 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <c4vo22lo0kju3n4v317eh9ofbk5299c2ld@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/?GT1=7850
Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET March 30, 2006
NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that
having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on
their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for
had a slightly higher rate of complications.
They must have been sinners.
<snip>
Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."
Well no kidding! How many times have we seen tests like this with the
same result? No frickin' difference!
Maybe next time they should try masks and rattles.
That would be an advancement.
True. The hospitals would charge the patients more for the 'props', thus
advancing their profits.
As well as advancing their prophets.
(Just what are prophets demanding as an advance these days?)
1500% of your lifetime income.....
You've got that off pat.
(Robertson)
His Whollyness, Sanctitas Pasta Michael K. Gray, B.Sc, (Adel, Math Sci),
M.A.C.S., M.R.S.A., MBA-BMSC (UBoS)
Sole Earthly representative of his Most Holey F.S.M.
Summus Pastifex, Bishop of Roam, in the Holey See of the Vacantcan.
Vicar of the Invisible Pink Unicorn,
Successor of the Prince of the Atheists,
Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Joint,
Primate of Congo, (Wednesdays only)
Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roaming province,
Sovereign of the State of the Vacantcan City,
Servant of the Servants of F.S.M.
Patriarch of the Waist. (Discontinued Line)
And a partridge in a pear tree.
Sorry 'bout that chief!
I am going to have a bit of an accident in 3 months, with a time
machine, and a faulty sig-generator.
--
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients |
05 Apr 2006 11:44:23 PM |
|
|
In article <nmp632t8bggmoutt2uemt1ustdo64n0i7t@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 21:43:15 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-5772CE.21431504042006@news.giganews.com>
In article <ha7632doog6vcalu3qfg432jd16ausd16t@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 13:21:21 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
- Refer: <a9l532hrm04m03n139fqe835sma9s30j5j@4ax.com>
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 17:40:18 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in alt.atheism
On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 22:20:19 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-67C518.22201903042006@news.giganews.com>
In article <mte332ldo14rlbh39klt6st3ihbam4aqdh@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:03:29 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <c4vo22lo0kju3n4v317eh9ofbk5299c2ld@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/?GT1=7850
Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET March 30, 2006
NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found
that
having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect
on
their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed
for
had a slightly higher rate of complications.
They must have been sinners.
<snip>
Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."
Well no kidding! How many times have we seen tests like this with
the
same result? No frickin' difference!
Maybe next time they should try masks and rattles.
That would be an advancement.
True. The hospitals would charge the patients more for the 'props',
thus
advancing their profits.
As well as advancing their prophets.
(Just what are prophets demanding as an advance these days?)
1500% of your lifetime income.....
You've got that off pat.
(Robertson)
His Whollyness, Sanctitas Pasta Michael K. Gray, B.Sc, (Adel, Math Sci),
M.A.C.S., M.R.S.A., MBA-BMSC (UBoS)
Sole Earthly representative of his Most Holey F.S.M.
Summus Pastifex, Bishop of Roam, in the Holey See of the Vacantcan.
Vicar of the Invisible Pink Unicorn,
Successor of the Prince of the Atheists,
Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Joint,
Primate of Congo, (Wednesdays only)
Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roaming province,
Sovereign of the State of the Vacantcan City,
Servant of the Servants of F.S.M.
Patriarch of the Waist. (Discontinued Line)
And a partridge in a pear tree.
Sorry 'bout that chief!
I am going to have a bit of an accident in 3 months, with a time
machine, and a faulty sig-generator.
--
Heh!
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients |
06 Apr 2006 04:59:57 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 21:44:23 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-CA79E6.21442305042006@news.giganews.com>
In article <nmp632t8bggmoutt2uemt1ustdo64n0i7t@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 21:43:15 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-5772CE.21431504042006@news.giganews.com>
In article <ha7632doog6vcalu3qfg432jd16ausd16t@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 13:21:21 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
- Refer: <a9l532hrm04m03n139fqe835sma9s30j5j@4ax.com>
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 17:40:18 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in alt.atheism
On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 22:20:19 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-67C518.22201903042006@news.giganews.com>
In article <mte332ldo14rlbh39klt6st3ihbam4aqdh@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:03:29 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <c4vo22lo0kju3n4v317eh9ofbk5299c2ld@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/?GT1=7850
Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET March 30, 2006
NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found
that
having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect
on
their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed
for
had a slightly higher rate of complications.
They must have been sinners.
<snip>
Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."
Well no kidding! How many times have we seen tests like this with
the
same result? No frickin' difference!
Maybe next time they should try masks and rattles.
That would be an advancement.
True. The hospitals would charge the patients more for the 'props',
thus
advancing their profits.
As well as advancing their prophets.
(Just what are prophets demanding as an advance these days?)
1500% of your lifetime income.....
You've got that off pat.
(Robertson)
His Whollyness, Sanctitas Pasta Michael K. Gray, B.Sc, (Adel, Math Sci),
M.A.C.S., M.R.S.A., MBA-BMSC (UBoS)
Sole Earthly representative of his Most Holey F.S.M.
Summus Pastifex, Bishop of Roam, in the Holey See of the Vacantcan.
Vicar of the Invisible Pink Unicorn,
Successor of the Prince of the Atheists,
Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Joint,
Primate of Congo, (Wednesdays only)
Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roaming province,
Sovereign of the State of the Vacantcan City,
Servant of the Servants of F.S.M.
Patriarch of the Waist. (Discontinued Line)
And a partridge in a pear tree.
Sorry 'bout that chief!
I am going to have a bit of an accident in 3 months, with a time
machine, and a faulty sig-generator.
--
Heh!
I knew you were going to say that.
Yeah, yeah.
I knew you were going to think that too...
Hey!
Same to you, buddy!
--
.
|
|
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| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients |
07 Apr 2006 12:21:33 AM |
|
|
In article <tfp932hnpr2tppdaecafbpmdpdh0o373ad@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 21:44:23 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-CA79E6.21442305042006@news.giganews.com>
In article <nmp632t8bggmoutt2uemt1ustdo64n0i7t@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 21:43:15 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-5772CE.21431504042006@news.giganews.com>
In article <ha7632doog6vcalu3qfg432jd16ausd16t@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 13:21:21 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
- Refer: <a9l532hrm04m03n139fqe835sma9s30j5j@4ax.com>
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 17:40:18 +0930, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in alt.atheism
On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 22:20:19 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-67C518.22201903042006@news.giganews.com>
In article <mte332ldo14rlbh39klt6st3ihbam4aqdh@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:03:29 -0800, johac
<jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <c4vo22lo0kju3n4v317eh9ofbk5299c2ld@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/?GT1=7850
Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET March 30, 2006
NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found
that
having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no
effect
on
their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being
prayed
for
had a slightly higher rate of complications.
They must have been sinners.
<snip>
Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."
Well no kidding! How many times have we seen tests like this with
the
same result? No frickin' difference!
Maybe next time they should try masks and rattles.
That would be an advancement.
True. The hospitals would charge the patients more for the 'props',
thus
advancing their profits.
As well as advancing their prophets.
(Just what are prophets demanding as an advance these days?)
1500% of your lifetime income.....
You've got that off pat.
(Robertson)
His Whollyness, Sanctitas Pasta Michael K. Gray, B.Sc, (Adel, Math
Sci),
M.A.C.S., M.R.S.A., MBA-BMSC (UBoS)
Sole Earthly representative of his Most Holey F.S.M.
Summus Pastifex, Bishop of Roam, in the Holey See of the Vacantcan.
Vicar of the Invisible Pink Unicorn,
Successor of the Prince of the Atheists,
Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Joint,
Primate of Congo, (Wednesdays only)
Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roaming province,
Sovereign of the State of the Vacantcan City,
Servant of the Servants of F.S.M.
Patriarch of the Waist. (Discontinued Line)
And a partridge in a pear tree.
Sorry 'bout that chief!
I am going to have a bit of an accident in 3 months, with a time
machine, and a faulty sig-generator.
--
Heh!
I knew you were going to say that.
I knew that would be your reply.
Yeah, yeah.
I knew you were going to think that too...
Hey stop thinking that!
Hey!
Same to you, buddy!
....and the horse you rode into town on.
--
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients |
03 Apr 2006 10:50:29 PM |
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On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 17:20:35 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
- Refer: <mte332ldo14rlbh39klt6st3ihbam4aqdh@4ax.com>
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:03:29 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <c4vo22lo0kju3n4v317eh9ofbk5299c2ld@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/?GT1=7850
Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET March 30, 2006
NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that
having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on
their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for
had a slightly higher rate of complications.
They must have been sinners.
<snip>
Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."
Well no kidding! How many times have we seen tests like this with the
same result? No frickin' difference!
Maybe next time they should try masks and rattles.
That would be an advancement.
Yes, the placebo effect in the case of Voodoo is actually quite real.
--
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients |
31 Mar 2006 01:51:36 AM |
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|
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:03:29 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-FC743E.23032930032006@news.giganews.com>
In article <c4vo22lo0kju3n4v317eh9ofbk5299c2ld@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/?GT1=7850
Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET March 30, 2006
NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that
having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on
their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for
had a slightly higher rate of complications.
They must have been sinners.
<snip>
Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."
Well no kidding! How many times have we seen tests like this with the
same result? No frickin' difference!
Maybe next time they should try masks and rattles.
I do seem to remember that somewhere such a trial was carried out.
Placebo effect only, was the result.
I'll look it up, if I get the time.
And, more to the point, if I get the motivation...
--
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients |
01 Apr 2006 12:58:12 AM |
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|
In article <spnp225n35fg4ngu4fcacikekkrr0enbl9@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:03:29 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-FC743E.23032930032006@news.giganews.com>
In article <c4vo22lo0kju3n4v317eh9ofbk5299c2ld@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/?GT1=7850
Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET March 30, 2006
NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that
having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on
their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for
had a slightly higher rate of complications.
They must have been sinners.
<snip>
Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."
Well no kidding! How many times have we seen tests like this with the
same result? No frickin' difference!
Maybe next time they should try masks and rattles.
I do seem to remember that somewhere such a trial was carried out.
Placebo effect only, was the result.
I'll look it up, if I get the time.
And, more to the point, if I get the motivation...
--
About five years or more ago there was a similar trial. I think it was
written up in Skeptical Inquirer. About the same result.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients |
01 Apr 2006 08:27:08 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 22:58:12 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-2427EB.22581231032006@news.giganews.com>
In article <spnp225n35fg4ngu4fcacikekkrr0enbl9@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:03:29 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-FC743E.23032930032006@news.giganews.com>
In article <c4vo22lo0kju3n4v317eh9ofbk5299c2ld@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/?GT1=7850
Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET March 30, 2006
NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that
having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on
their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for
had a slightly higher rate of complications.
They must have been sinners.
<snip>
Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."
Well no kidding! How many times have we seen tests like this with the
same result? No frickin' difference!
Maybe next time they should try masks and rattles.
I do seem to remember that somewhere such a trial was carried out.
Placebo effect only, was the result.
I'll look it up, if I get the time.
And, more to the point, if I get the motivation...
--
About five years or more ago there was a similar trial. I think it was
written up in Skeptical Inquirer. About the same result.
Yes, if I remember rightly, Voodoo was marginally more effective than
psychoanalysis.
(Which has never cured anyone in it's hundred year history)
--
.
|
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| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients |
01 Apr 2006 11:54:56 PM |
|
|
In article <qhdu229oelfjqfh5q9iejncu1gpu6etuaf@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 22:58:12 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-2427EB.22581231032006@news.giganews.com>
In article <spnp225n35fg4ngu4fcacikekkrr0enbl9@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:03:29 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-FC743E.23032930032006@news.giganews.com>
In article <c4vo22lo0kju3n4v317eh9ofbk5299c2ld@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/?GT1=7850
Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET March 30, 2006
NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that
having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on
their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for
had a slightly higher rate of complications.
They must have been sinners.
<snip>
Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."
Well no kidding! How many times have we seen tests like this with the
same result? No frickin' difference!
Maybe next time they should try masks and rattles.
I do seem to remember that somewhere such a trial was carried out.
Placebo effect only, was the result.
I'll look it up, if I get the time.
And, more to the point, if I get the motivation...
--
About five years or more ago there was a similar trial. I think it was
written up in Skeptical Inquirer. About the same result.
Yes, if I remember rightly, Voodoo was marginally more effective than
psychoanalysis.
(Which has never cured anyone in it's hundred year history)
--
It keeps the shrinks off the streets.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
|
|
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients |
03 Apr 2006 07:21:56 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 01 Apr 2006 21:54:56 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <qhdu229oelfjqfh5q9iejncu1gpu6etuaf@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 22:58:12 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-2427EB.22581231032006@news.giganews.com>
In article <spnp225n35fg4ngu4fcacikekkrr0enbl9@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:03:29 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-FC743E.23032930032006@news.giganews.com>
In article <c4vo22lo0kju3n4v317eh9ofbk5299c2ld@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/?GT1=7850
Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET March 30, 2006
NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that
having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on
their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for
had a slightly higher rate of complications.
They must have been sinners.
<snip>
Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."
Well no kidding! How many times have we seen tests like this with the
same result? No frickin' difference!
Maybe next time they should try masks and rattles.
I do seem to remember that somewhere such a trial was carried out.
Placebo effect only, was the result.
I'll look it up, if I get the time.
And, more to the point, if I get the motivation...
--
About five years or more ago there was a similar trial. I think it was
written up in Skeptical Inquirer. About the same result.
Yes, if I remember rightly, Voodoo was marginally more effective than
psychoanalysis.
(Which has never cured anyone in it's hundred year history)
--
It keeps the shrinks off the streets.
My analysis says they're psycho. :)
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients |
03 Apr 2006 10:49:33 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 17:21:56 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
- Refer: <qve332hs610qfgf27u8gvmdf6k9dclvpl9@4ax.com>
On Sat, 01 Apr 2006 21:54:56 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <qhdu229oelfjqfh5q9iejncu1gpu6etuaf@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 22:58:12 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-2427EB.22581231032006@news.giganews.com>
In article <spnp225n35fg4ngu4fcacikekkrr0enbl9@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:03:29 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-FC743E.23032930032006@news.giganews.com>
In article <c4vo22lo0kju3n4v317eh9ofbk5299c2ld@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/?GT1=7850
Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET March 30, 2006
NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that
having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on
their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for
had a slightly higher rate of complications.
They must have been sinners.
<snip>
Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."
Well no kidding! How many times have we seen tests like this with the
same result? No frickin' difference!
Maybe next time they should try masks and rattles.
I do seem to remember that somewhere such a trial was carried out.
Placebo effect only, was the result.
I'll look it up, if I get the time.
And, more to the point, if I get the motivation...
--
About five years or more ago there was a similar trial. I think it was
written up in Skeptical Inquirer. About the same result.
Yes, if I remember rightly, Voodoo was marginally more effective than
psychoanalysis.
(Which has never cured anyone in it's hundred year history)
--
It keeps the shrinks off the streets.
My analysis says they're psycho. :)
Shrinks?
Yes, they are amongst the least rational of our medical brethren.
--
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients |
03 Apr 2006 11:52:33 PM |
|
|
In article <35r332lj145j0ri3kbccaaannedhjp9skc@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 17:21:56 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
- Refer: <qve332hs610qfgf27u8gvmdf6k9dclvpl9@4ax.com>
On Sat, 01 Apr 2006 21:54:56 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <qhdu229oelfjqfh5q9iejncu1gpu6etuaf@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 22:58:12 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-2427EB.22581231032006@news.giganews.com>
In article <spnp225n35fg4ngu4fcacikekkrr0enbl9@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:03:29 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-FC743E.23032930032006@news.giganews.com>
In article <c4vo22lo0kju3n4v317eh9ofbk5299c2ld@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/?GT1=7850
Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET March 30, 2006
NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that
having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect
on
their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed
for
had a slightly higher rate of complications.
They must have been sinners.
<snip>
Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."
Well no kidding! How many times have we seen tests like this with the
same result? No frickin' difference!
Maybe next time they should try masks and rattles.
I do seem to remember that somewhere such a trial was carried out.
Placebo effect only, was the result.
I'll look it up, if I get the time.
And, more to the point, if I get the motivation...
--
About five years or more ago there was a similar trial. I think it was
written up in Skeptical Inquirer. About the same result.
Yes, if I remember rightly, Voodoo was marginally more effective than
psychoanalysis.
(Which has never cured anyone in it's hundred year history)
--
It keeps the shrinks off the streets.
My analysis says they're psycho. :)
Shrinks?
Yes, they are amongst the least rational of our medical brethren.
--
They all must have hated their fathers and wanted to screw their
mothers. :-)
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients |
04 Apr 2006 03:20:16 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 21:52:33 -0700, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <35r332lj145j0ri3kbccaaannedhjp9skc@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 17:21:56 -0700, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
- Refer: <qve332hs610qfgf27u8gvmdf6k9dclvpl9@4ax.com>
On Sat, 01 Apr 2006 21:54:56 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <qhdu229oelfjqfh5q9iejncu1gpu6etuaf@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 22:58:12 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-2427EB.22581231032006@news.giganews.com>
In article <spnp225n35fg4ngu4fcacikekkrr0enbl9@4ax.com>,
Michael Gray <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:03:29 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-FC743E.23032930032006@news.giganews.com>
In article <c4vo22lo0kju3n4v317eh9ofbk5299c2ld@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/?GT1=7850
Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET March 30, 2006
NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that
having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect
on
their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed
for
had a slightly higher rate of complications.
They must have been sinners.
<snip>
Science, he said, "is not designed to study the supernatural."
Well no kidding! How many times have we seen tests like this with the
same result? No frickin' difference!
Maybe next time they should try masks and rattles.
I do seem to remember that somewhere such a trial was carried out.
Placebo effect only, was the result.
I'll look it up, if I get the time.
And, more to the point, if I get the motivation...
--
About five years or more ago there was a similar trial. I think it was
written up in Skeptical Inquirer. About the same result.
Yes, if I remember rightly, Voodoo was marginally more effective than
psychoanalysis.
(Which has never cured anyone in it's hundred year history)
--
It keeps the shrinks off the streets.
My analysis says they're psycho. :)
Shrinks?
Yes, they are amongst the least rational of our medical brethren.
--
They all must have hated their fathers and wanted to screw their
mothers. :-)
Or vice versa.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Power of prayer flunks an unusual test Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients |
04 Apr 2006 11:46:39 PM |
|
|
In article <k7l532l7hl83sthe69pg7h25a2k8agkvce@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 21:52:33 -0700, johac <jh | | | | | | | | | | |
