| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"david asman" |
| Date: |
17 Oct 2003 02:20:05 PM |
| Object: |
Power of Prayer found wanting in Hospital Trial |
Hello all,
From the _Telegraph_ UK
Teaser:
--
The biggest scientific experiment on
prayer
has failed to find any evidence that
it helps to
heal the sick.
--
The question I have is: What does a
study
like this really accomplish?
Wouldn't the
researchers money be better spent on
something else. After all those who
believe
that prayer will have a positive
effect will
probably continue to do, and those
who don't
believe will probably just say
ho-hum. At least
it's interesting. (Links below)
Dave
http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z3A416046
or
http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/10/15/npray15.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/10/15/ixhome.html&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=3563
.
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| User: "pan" |
|
| Title: Re: Power of Prayer found wanting in Hospital Trial |
17 Oct 2003 05:18:39 PM |
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On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:20:05 -0400, david asman <dasman@wayne.edu>
wrote:
Hello all,
From the _Telegraph_ UK
Teaser:
--
The biggest scientific experiment on
prayer
has failed to find any evidence that
it helps to
heal the sick.
(snip)
http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/10/15/npray15.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/10/15/ixhome.html&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=3563
From the article above:
"...
Earlier, less extensive, research suggested prayer could have a
measurably beneficial effect.
But the experiment, which will be detailed in a BBC2 Everyman
documentary to be broadcast next week, was criticised as crude by
Church leaders. The Bishop of Durham, the Rt Rev Tom Wright, said:
"Prayer is not a penny-in-the-slot machine. You can't just put in a
coin and get out a chocolate.
"This is like setting an exam for God to see if God will pass it or
not."
He said both the Old and New Testaments said "very clearly" that you
must not put God to the test. The new research, dubbed the Mantra
project, was led by Dr Mitch Krucoff, a cardiologist, whose pilot
studies had led him to believe that prayer could have measurably
beneficial effects. ..."
When some of the past 'prayer research' indicated a *possible*
slight benefit from prayer: many Christians touted this as evidence of
God's existence.
Now when the most extensive research indicates that there is no
benefit from prayer we are told: "that you must not put God to the
test".
But apparently "testing" God is OK, just so long as the results
support the claims made by Christians.
pan
.
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| User: "Walking on Glass" |
|
| Title: Re: Power of Prayer found wanting in Hospital Trial |
17 Oct 2003 10:01:46 PM |
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And it came to pass that pan <pan@psnwREMOVE.com> did write in
alt.atheism, news:qeo0pvkbbms7h3mcismh4djet8nft9aubi@4ax.com:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:20:05 -0400, david asman <dasman@wayne.edu>
wrote:
Hello all,
From the _Telegraph_ UK
Teaser:
--
The biggest scientific experiment on
prayer
has failed to find any evidence that
it helps to
heal the sick.
(snip)
http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/10/15/npray1
5.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/10/15/ixhome.html&secureRefresh=true&_requestid
=3563
From the article above:
"...
Earlier, less extensive, research suggested prayer could have a
measurably beneficial effect.
But the experiment, which will be detailed in a BBC2 Everyman
documentary to be broadcast next week, was criticised as crude by
Church leaders. The Bishop of Durham, the Rt Rev Tom Wright, said:
"Prayer is not a penny-in-the-slot machine. You can't just put in a
coin and get out a chocolate.
"This is like setting an exam for God to see if God will pass it or
not."
He said both the Old and New Testaments said "very clearly" that you
must not put God to the test. The new research, dubbed the Mantra
project, was led by Dr Mitch Krucoff, a cardiologist, whose pilot
studies had led him to believe that prayer could have measurably
beneficial effects. ..."
When some of the past 'prayer research' indicated a *possible*
slight benefit from prayer: many Christians touted this as evidence of
God's existence.
Now when the most extensive research indicates that there is no
benefit from prayer we are told: "that you must not put God to the
test".
But apparently "testing" God is OK, just so long as the results
support the claims made by Christians.
That's xian rationalisation for ya. If things work out OK, the Big G gets
the credit. If they don't, then the Big G was obviously refusing to
answer the xian's prayers (or whatever...). Either way the god hypothesis
wins, and the xian can bolster his faith and get the 'warm fuzzies' that
he is right and those heathen non-xians are going to burn in hell...
--
Walking on Glass (remove NOSPAM to email me)
AA #2053 Zymurgist #12
"If you want to save your child from polio, you can pray or
you can inoculate...Try science"
Carl Sagan - "The Demon-Haunted World"
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| User: "Beowulf" |
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| Title: Re: Re: Power of Prayer found wanting in Hospital Trial |
21 Oct 2003 08:04:28 AM |
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On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:18:39 -0700, pan <pan@psnwREMOVE.com>
ejaculated:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:20:05 -0400, david asman <dasman@wayne.edu>
wrote:
From the article above:
"...
Earlier, less extensive, research suggested prayer could have a
measurably beneficial effect.
But the experiment, which will be detailed in a BBC2 Everyman
documentary to be broadcast next week, was criticised as crude by
Church leaders. The Bishop of Durham, the Rt Rev Tom Wright, said:
"Prayer is not a penny-in-the-slot machine. You can't just put in a
coin and get out a chocolate.
"This is like setting an exam for God to see if God will pass it or
not."
He said both the Old and New Testaments said "very clearly" that you
must not put God to the test.
It's obvious that the good bishop has never read the Bible then.
Elijah puts YHWH to the test against Baal. 1 Kings 18:16ff.
Or how about:
"Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name. Ask and ye shall receive
that your joy be made full." John 16:24 (Quoted from memory, even.)
The new research, dubbed the Mantra
project, was led by Dr Mitch Krucoff, a cardiologist, whose pilot
studies had led him to believe that prayer could have measurably
beneficial effects. ..."
So, the research was even done by an, at least nominal, believer.
That's good.
When some of the past 'prayer research' indicated a *possible*
slight benefit from prayer: many Christians touted this as evidence of
God's existence.
Now when the most extensive research indicates that there is no
benefit from prayer we are told: "that you must not put God to the
test".
It's the same hypocrisy that allows creationist loons to use the
technology created by the scientific method while repudiating the same
method in their ideology.
Christians can't help being hypocrites because their religion makes
soundly false claims about how the world operates.
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Power of Prayer found wanting in Hospital Trial |
17 Oct 2003 09:12:22 PM |
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On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:18:39 -0700, pan <pan@psnwREMOVE.com> posted in
alt.atheism:
He said both the Old and New Testaments said "very clearly" that you
must not put God to the test.
They also say "very clearly" that you can put him to the test.
--
"The doctrine that the earth is neither the center of the universe nor immovable, but
moves even with a daily rotation, is absurd, and both philosophically and theologically
false, and at the least an error of faith."
- Catholic Church's decision against Galileo Galilei
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Wolf333" |
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| Title: Re: Power of Prayer found wanting in Hospital Trial |
17 Oct 2003 11:40:09 PM |
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pigy backing....
"pan" <pan@psnwREMOVE.com> wrote in message
news:qeo0pvkbbms7h3mcismh4djet8nft9aubi@4ax.com...
On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:20:05 -0400, david asman <dasman@wayne.edu>
wrote:
Hello all,
From the _Telegraph_ UK
Teaser:
--
The biggest scientific experiment on
prayer
has failed to find any evidence that
it helps to
heal the sick.
(snip)
http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/10/15/npray15.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/10/15/ixhome.html&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=3563
From the article above:
"...
Earlier, less extensive, research suggested prayer could have a
measurably beneficial effect.
But the experiment, which will be detailed in a BBC2 Everyman
documentary to be broadcast next week, was criticised as crude by
Church leaders. The Bishop of Durham, the Rt Rev Tom Wright, said:
"Prayer is not a penny-in-the-slot machine. You can't just put in a
coin and get out a chocolate.
So if I put in a coin and don't get a chocolate, I should just keep putting
in coins?
"This is like setting an exam for God to see if God will pass it or
not."
Well, yeah... and the thing is, he does not pass. Time and again.
He said both the Old and New Testaments said "very clearly" that you
must not put God to the test. The new research, dubbed the Mantra
project, was led by Dr Mitch Krucoff, a cardiologist, whose pilot
studies had led him to believe that prayer could have measurably
beneficial effects. ..."
When some of the past 'prayer research' indicated a *possible*
slight benefit from prayer: many Christians touted this as evidence of
God's existence.
Now when the most extensive research indicates that there is no
benefit from prayer we are told: "that you must not put God to the
test".
But apparently "testing" God is OK, just so long as the results
support the claims made by Christians.
Just remember these simple rules:
If it is good - god did it.
If it is bad - god didn't do it. It's either man or satan
God created it all... except for the bad stuff
pan
--
__________
"blood-red canal birds particular traffic climb" - anonymous, oddly Zen-like
spammer
Michael Wolfe
aa #1912
__________
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| User: "Carol Lee Smith" |
|
| Title: Re: Power of Prayer found wanting in Hospital Trial |
17 Oct 2003 03:11:17 PM |
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On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, david asman wrote:
The biggest scientific experiment on prayer
has failed to find any evidence that
it helps to heal the sick.
The question I have is: What does a study
like this really accomplish?
What does truth and accuracy ever accomplish?
ESPECIALLY in the field(s) of medicine/science?
Wouldn't the researchers money be better spent on
something else.
Like SNAKEOIL?
Channeling with the dear departed?
What?
After all those who
believe that prayer will have a positive
effect will probably continue to do, and those
who don't believe will probably just say
ho-hum. At least it's interesting. (Links below)
http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z3A416046
or
http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/10/15/npray15.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/10/15/ixhome.html&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=3563
.
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