| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"phy" |
| Date: |
02 Apr 2004 08:30:16 AM |
| Object: |
Prayer doesn't work |
Sometime in the last couple months I came across an article about a double
blind study that a US university hospital conducted that involved praying
for cancer patients. Supposably the study concluded that praying for the
patients made no difference in their recovery. Does anyone know where this
study may have been published? The reason I am asking is that I mentioned
it to a coworker and now he wants proof. This is the same guy that told me
yesterday that the government changed the history text books in the early
90's. His evidence was that he drove a dump truck at the time and he had to
take a bunch of books from all the county schools to the landfill. He also
remembered the controversy it caused and how people talked about it for
weeks. When I asked him what exactly they changed, of course he couldn't
remember. It seemed the same to me when I took a history class in 2002 as
it did when I studied the same exact subject matter in 1976 and again in
the early '80's. He only brought up the subject because I told him to read
a history book before he tried to talk to me about whether the US was
founded on Christianity.
-phy
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Prayer doesn't work |
02 Apr 2004 04:39:24 PM |
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"phy" <phy00x@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94BF573CDF01phy00xyahoocom@216.168.3.44...
Sometime in the last couple months I came across an article about a double
blind study that a US university hospital conducted that involved praying
for cancer patients.
Oops. There were reference given here a few months ago, a google search
should find them.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Prayer doesn't work |
02 Apr 2004 04:38:04 PM |
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"phy" <phy00x@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94BF573CDF01phy00xyahoocom@216.168.3.44...
Sometime in the last couple months I came across an article about a double
blind study that a US university hospital conducted that involved praying
for cancer patients.
To do a study you need at least two groups, one of which is a control group.
Since there is no way to determine which group received more prayers, if
quantity is the measurement, or "better" prayers if quality is the
measurement, no such test can be valid.
There are people who pray all the time for the sick and injured and the
control group might have 10,000 people in his congregation holding prayer
meetings just for him.
Aside from that, nowhere in the bible does it say "Ask and you shall receive
in a manner that may be almost of statistical significance."
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| User: "Fritz Langs Claytonopolis" |
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| Title: Re: Prayer doesn't work |
02 Apr 2004 06:08:10 PM |
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"phy" <phy00x@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94BF573CDF01phy00xyahoocom@216.168.3.44...
Sometime in the last couple months I came across an article about a double
blind study that a US university hospital conducted that involved praying
for cancer patients. Supposably the study concluded that praying for the
patients made no difference in their recovery. Does anyone know where
this
study may have been published? The reason I am asking is that I mentioned
it to a coworker and now he wants proof. This is the same guy that told
me
yesterday that the government changed the history text books in the early
90's. His evidence was that he drove a dump truck at the time and he had
to
take a bunch of books from all the county schools to the landfill. He also
remembered the controversy it caused and how people talked about it for
weeks. When I asked him what exactly they changed, of course he couldn't
remember. It seemed the same to me when I took a history class in 2002 as
it did when I studied the same exact subject matter in 1976 and again in
the early '80's. He only brought up the subject because I told him to read
a history book before he tried to talk to me about whether the US was
founded on Christianity.
The "study" was full of holes and was totally discredited, as were several
other similar attempts at the same thing. Someone posted a long article
debunking it on here a couple of years ago...a google search should be able
to find it. I think another attempt was made sticking as close to
scientific method as possible and it showed the prayer claims were utter
bunk.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Prayer doesn't work |
02 Apr 2004 03:53:53 PM |
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On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:30:16 +0000 in episode
<Xns94BF573CDF01phy00xyahoocom@216.168.3.44> we saw our hero phy
<phy00x@yahoo.com>:
This is the same guy
that told me yesterday that the government changed the history text books
in the early 90's. His evidence was that he drove a dump truck at the time
and he had to take a bunch of books from all the county schools to the
landfill. He also remembered the controversy it caused and how people
talked about it for weeks. When I asked him what exactly they changed, of
course he couldn't remember.
Well, they changed it to *look exactly the same...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism,
because it is a merger of State and corporate power."
- Mussolini
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| User: "Brian Henderson" |
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| Title: Re: Prayer doesn't work |
02 Apr 2004 05:17:46 PM |
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On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:30:16 -0000, phy <phy00x@yahoo.com> wrote:
Sometime in the last couple months I came across an article about a double
blind study that a US university hospital conducted that involved praying
for cancer patients. Supposably the study concluded that praying for the
patients made no difference in their recovery.
There was another study done many years ago where multiple religious
adherents prayed for cancer patients. The study showed that while
prayer had no statistical impact on the survival of the patients, the
patient that Christians prayed over had a much *LOWER* survival rate
than any of the other religions involved.
I guess God doesn't give a damn.
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| User: "John Ritson" |
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| Title: Re: Prayer doesn't work |
03 Apr 2004 01:57:40 PM |
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In message <j6tr60dbqdk4lv48rs73vfie0te1fjpb83@4ax.com>, Brian Henderson
<BrianL.Henderson@verizon.net> writes
On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:30:16 -0000, phy <phy00x@yahoo.com> wrote:
Sometime in the last couple months I came across an article about a double
blind study that a US university hospital conducted that involved praying
for cancer patients. Supposably the study concluded that praying for the
patients made no difference in their recovery.
There was another study done many years ago where multiple religious
adherents prayed for cancer patients. The study showed that while
prayer had no statistical impact on the survival of the patients, the
patient that Christians prayed over had a much *LOWER* survival rate
than any of the other religions involved.
I guess God doesn't give a damn.
My favourite was the study in which, because they didn't have a squad of
god-botherers on 24-hour alert, many hours could pass between a patient
being selected as to-be-prayed-for and the actual prayer, during which
the patient might well be discharged as needing no more medical care.
The same analysis which 'demonstrated' that prayed-for patients were
more likely to be cured also showed an even stronger beneficial effect
among those who had been discharged before being prayed for.
So being prayed for allegedly cures you even before you have been prayed
for.
Hallelujah! Christianity surely is incredible!
--
John Ritson
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| User: "Steve Knight" |
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| Title: Re: Prayer doesn't work |
02 Apr 2004 05:39:13 PM |
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On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:30:16 -0000, phy <phy00x@yahoo.com> wrote:
Sometime in the last couple months I came across an article about a double
blind study that a US university hospital conducted that involved praying
for cancer patients. Supposably the study concluded that praying for the
patients made no difference in their recovery. Does anyone know where this
study may have been published? The reason I am asking is that I mentioned
it to a coworker and now he wants proof. This is the same guy that told me
yesterday that the government changed the history text books in the early
90's. His evidence was that he drove a dump truck at the time and he had to
take a bunch of books from all the county schools to the landfill. He also
remembered the controversy it caused and how people talked about it for
weeks. When I asked him what exactly they changed, of course he couldn't
remember. It seemed the same to me when I took a history class in 2002 as
it did when I studied the same exact subject matter in 1976 and again in
the early '80's. He only brought up the subject because I told him to read
a history book before he tried to talk to me about whether the US was
founded on Christianity.
-phy
It's really kind of gruesome. Trying to prove a god only helps
people that beg him. It would only prove what a sick demented god they
have.
Warlord Steve
BAAWA
www.sonic.net/~wooly
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Prayer doesn't work |
03 Apr 2004 01:29:31 PM |
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On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 23:39:13 GMT, Steve Knight <whooly@sonic.net>,
Message ID: <7kur60hvvr6nt6ue40v3ig7o3mgt0h1psk@4ax.com> wrote in
alt.atheism;
On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:30:16 -0000, phy <phy00x@yahoo.com> wrote:
Sometime in the last couple months I came across an article about a double
blind study that a US university hospital conducted that involved praying
for cancer patients. Supposably the study concluded that praying for the
patients made no difference in their recovery. Does anyone know where this
study may have been published? The reason I am asking is that I mentioned
it to a coworker and now he wants proof. This is the same guy that told me
yesterday that the government changed the history text books in the early
90's. His evidence was that he drove a dump truck at the time and he had to
take a bunch of books from all the county schools to the landfill. He also
remembered the controversy it caused and how people talked about it for
weeks. When I asked him what exactly they changed, of course he couldn't
remember. It seemed the same to me when I took a history class in 2002 as
it did when I studied the same exact subject matter in 1976 and again in
the early '80's. He only brought up the subject because I told him to read
a history book before he tried to talk to me about whether the US was
founded on Christianity.
-phy
It's really kind of gruesome. Trying to prove a god only helps
people that beg him. It would only prove what a sick demented god they
have.
Yes, and these morons don't realize they're indicating that with their
drivel.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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