| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Fredric L. Rice" |
| Date: |
17 Jul 2005 03:03:21 PM |
| Object: |
Prayer is powerless. Fundies pray it's not true. |
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/sfl-aprayer15jul15,0,5212179.story
Prayer has no power, study finds
Patients fared about the same with or without entreaties
By Michael Stroh
Baltimore Sun
July 15, 2005
Praying for someone who is ill and preparing to undergo a risky medical
procedure appears to have no effect on the patient's future health.
That's the finding of one of the largest scientific investigations of the
power of prayer conducted to date. Scientists said the study, published
today in The Lancet, will undoubtedly renew debates over whether prayer has
a measurable effect on illness and even whether it's a suitable subject of
scientific inquiry.
For the study, researchers at Duke University recruited nearly 750 people
undergoing heart-related procedures. Religious groups of different
denominations were randomly assigned to pray for the health of half the
volunteers. The other half received no organized prayers.
Researchers found that the prayers, offered by representatives of
Christian, Muslim, Jewish and Buddhist faiths, had no effect on whether
patients experienced post-procedure complications such as heart attack,
death or readmission to the hospital.
Duke researchers did find that another nontraditional intervention known as
"MIT therapy," which involves playing music and administering therapeutic
touch at the bedside, did have a slight beneficial health effect.
Volunteers who received MIT therapy, researchers found, had less emotional
distress before their procedure and a slightly lower mortality rate six
months after admission.
Mitchell Krucoff, the Duke University cardiologist who led the study, says
the research, sponsored by several medical centers and foundations, was not
intended to provide a definitive answer to the question of whether prayer
works. The study, he said, was mostly intended to determine the best way to
evaluate the influence of prayer.
"This is still very fertile ground," he said.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://www.rightard.org/ http://www.thedarkwind.org/
.
|
|
| User: "John Popelish" |
|
| Title: Re: Prayer is powerless. Fundies pray it's not true. |
17 Jul 2005 10:42:59 PM |
|
|
Love your headline. Such wonderful irony.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "bennyhinn2" |
|
| Title: Re: Prayer is powerless. Fundies pray it's not true. |
17 Jul 2005 04:49:44 PM |
|
|
Not sure how they do their research. Also not sure what science has to do
with Prayer. Prayer is not a physical law that can be messured by science.
Answers to prayer depends on many factors because it is God who makes the
final decision to heal or not to heal. So one of the major factor that plays
role in it is to which God one is praying to. Is that God really God.
Well there are many factors do play in it.
But I can tell that study is faulty because I have seen with my own yes that
prayer does change things and even heals people without surgery.
Vinod Isaac
http://vinodisaac.com
http://jcsearch.com/blogs/vinisaac
----------------------------------------------------------------
http://jcsearch.com/blogs - Create your own blog
--
´Y
"Fredric L. Rice" <FRice@SkepticTank.ORG> wrote in message
news:11dlev5ml9olh25@corp.supernews.com...
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/sfl-aprayer15jul15,0,5212179.story
Prayer has no power, study finds
Patients fared about the same with or without entreaties
By Michael Stroh
Baltimore Sun
July 15, 2005
Praying for someone who is ill and preparing to undergo a risky medical
procedure appears to have no effect on the patient's future health.
That's the finding of one of the largest scientific investigations of the
power of prayer conducted to date. Scientists said the study, published
today in The Lancet, will undoubtedly renew debates over whether prayer
has
a measurable effect on illness and even whether it's a suitable subject of
scientific inquiry.
For the study, researchers at Duke University recruited nearly 750 people
undergoing heart-related procedures. Religious groups of different
denominations were randomly assigned to pray for the health of half the
volunteers. The other half received no organized prayers.
Researchers found that the prayers, offered by representatives of
Christian, Muslim, Jewish and Buddhist faiths, had no effect on whether
patients experienced post-procedure complications such as heart attack,
death or readmission to the hospital.
Duke researchers did find that another nontraditional intervention known
as
"MIT therapy," which involves playing music and administering therapeutic
touch at the bedside, did have a slight beneficial health effect.
Volunteers who received MIT therapy, researchers found, had less emotional
distress before their procedure and a slightly lower mortality rate six
months after admission.
Mitchell Krucoff, the Duke University cardiologist who led the study, says
the research, sponsored by several medical centers and foundations, was
not
intended to provide a definitive answer to the question of whether prayer
works. The study, he said, was mostly intended to determine the best way
to
evaluate the influence of prayer.
"This is still very fertile ground," he said.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://www.rightard.org/ http://www.thedarkwind.org/
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jez" |
|
| Title: Re: Prayer is powerless. Fundies pray it's not true. |
18 Jul 2005 05:16:40 AM |
|
|
"bennyhinn2" <bennyhinn2@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:4e317$42dad5b7$42a6df82$4748@msgid.meganewsservers.com:
Not sure how they do their research. Also not sure what science has to
do with Prayer. Prayer is not a physical law that can be messured by
science.
Answers to prayer depends on many factors because it is God who makes
the final decision to heal or not to heal.
And you can obviously prove that bull-***** yes ?
So one of the major factor that plays
role in it is to which God one is praying to. Is that God really God.
Well there are many factors do play in it.
But I can tell that study is faulty because I have seen with my own
yes that prayer does change things and even heals people without
surgery.
Rubbish.
--
Jez, MBA.,
Country Dancing and Advanced Astrology, UBS.
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'- Howard Zinn
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
|
| Title: Re: Prayer is powerless. Fundies pray it's not true. |
18 Jul 2005 08:41:34 PM |
|
|
"bennyhinn2" <bennyhinn2@yahoo.com> wrote:
Not sure how they do their research. Also not sure what science has to do
with Prayer. Prayer is not a physical law that can be messured by science.
Ergo it does no good. Or bad.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://www.rightard.org/ http://www.thedarkwind.org/
.
|
|
|
| User: "David Rice, Esq." |
|
| Title: Re: Prayer is powerless. Fundies pray it's not true. |
21 Jul 2005 12:23:49 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 01:41:34 GMT, (Fredric
L. Rice) wrote:
"bennyhinn2" <bennyhinn2@yahoo.com> wrote:
Not sure how they do their research. Also not sure what
science has to do with Prayer. Prayer is not a physical
law that can be messured by science.
Ergo it does no good. Or bad.
Praying does a massive amount of injury to huamnity every year:
far too many people are *KILLED* by praying. Adults (and the
parents of children) who reject medical treatment in favor of
pleading with the big penis in the sky.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://www.rightard.org/ http://www.thedarkwind.org/
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Prayer is powerless. Fundies pray it's not true. |
19 Jul 2005 06:04:09 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 01:41:34 GMT, (Fredric L.
Rice) wrote:
"bennyhinn2" <bennyhinn2@yahoo.com> wrote:
Not sure how they do their research. Also not sure what science has to do
with Prayer. Prayer is not a physical law that can be messured by science.
Ergo it does no good. Or bad.
Oh, it does bad alright.
Many of the credulous have died as a result of choice between prayer
and conventional medecine.
It just does no good. Period.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Hector Plasmic" |
|
| Title: Re: Prayer is powerless. Fundies pray it's not true. |
19 Jul 2005 01:27:51 PM |
|
|
Prayer is not a physical law
Of course not. It's thinking. Thinking your thinking to something
else that doesn't appear to be there. Ergo, it's mere faulty thinking.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Prayer is powerless. Fundies pray it's not true. |
19 Jul 2005 11:22:43 AM |
|
|
bennyhinn2 wrote:
Not sure how they do their research. Also not sure what science has to do
with Prayer. Prayer is not a physical law that can be messured by science.
Answers to prayer depends on many factors because it is God who makes the
final decision to heal or not to heal. So one of the major factor that pl=
ays
role in it is to which God one is praying to. Is that God really God.
Well there are many factors do play in it.
But I can tell that study is faulty because I have seen with my own yes t=
hat
prayer does change things and even heals people without surgery.
Yet again another christer makes such a claim and conveniently fails to
provide names, places, and dates.
nafc
Vinod Isaac
http://vinodisaac.com
http://jcsearch.com/blogs/vinisaac
----------------------------------------------------------------
http://jcsearch.com/blogs - Create your own blog
--
=B4Y
"Fredric L. Rice" <FRice@SkepticTank.ORG> wrote in message
news:11dlev5ml9olh25@corp.supernews.com...
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/sfl-aprayer15jul15,0,5212179=
..story
Prayer has no power, study finds
Patients fared about the same with or without entreaties
By Michael Stroh
Baltimore Sun
[snip]
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "duke" |
|
| Title: Re: Prayer is powerless. Fundies pray it's not true. |
17 Jul 2005 05:06:57 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 20:03:21 GMT, (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
Praying for someone who is ill and preparing to undergo a risky medical
procedure appears to have no effect on the patient's future health.
It may appear that way to an atheist such as yourself, but to us Christians,
it's everything.
You lose.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
|
|
|
| User: "Tom" |
|
| Title: Re: Prayer is powerless. Fundies pray it's not true. |
17 Jul 2005 07:32:12 PM |
|
|
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:7illd1h4asla3nim28tt7lp8r0pnrvacqg@4ax.com...
On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 20:03:21 GMT, (Fredric L. Rice)
wrote:
Praying for someone who is ill and preparing to undergo a risky medical
procedure appears to have no effect on the patient's future health.
It may appear that way to an atheist such as yourself, but to us
Christians,
it's everything.
You lose.
No Puke, it is that way, didn't you read the study???
.
|
|
|
| User: "DuhIdiot" |
|
| Title: Re: Prayer is powerless. Fundies pray it's not true. |
18 Jul 2005 09:12:45 PM |
|
|
For God to answer a prayer of beseechment -- "Lord, please heal my son's
cancer," or some such -- one or more of three things has to happen.
1. God must have his ignorance alleviated by someone informing him of things
you'd think he'd know about, like the kid's cancer or your desire to have it
go away.
2. God must have his foolishness corrected by someone pointing out that
healing the kid's cancer is a better course of action than the one he was
going to pursue (letting the kid die and then sending him to hell because
he's only a year old and hasn't accepted Jesus, maybe).
3. God, fully aware of the cancer, your wishes, and the wisdom of healing the
boy, must have his vicious, cruel, petty arrogance appeased by you getting on
your knees and begging for his help.
Now, when Xians pray, most are probably not thinking of 3, but are they
assuming their God is ignorant or foolish? Which would be less blasphemous?
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Hector Plasmic" |
|
| Title: Re: Prayer is powerless. Fundies pray it's not true. |
19 Jul 2005 01:28:39 PM |
|
|
to us Christians, it's everything
Then you're demonstrably bankrupt.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
|
| Title: Re: Prayer is powerless. Fundies pray it's not true. |
18 Jul 2005 08:41:35 PM |
|
|
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 20:03:21 GMT, (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
Praying for someone who is ill and preparing to undergo a risky medical
procedure appears to have no effect on the patient's future health.
It may appear that way to an atheist such as yourself, but to us Christians,
it's everything.
<rofl!> Science already won, fundy kook. Pray at yourselves all you
want, it doesn't do a bit of good.
Usually when you fuckers find it's not working, that's when you take
up the firearms and start slaughtering you hurtful enemies.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://www.rightard.org/ http://www.thedarkwind.org/
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "DanielSan" |
|
| Title: Re: Prayer is powerless. Fundies pray it's not true. |
17 Jul 2005 06:15:43 PM |
|
|
duke wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 20:03:21 GMT, (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
Praying for someone who is ill and preparing to undergo a risky medical
procedure appears to have no effect on the patient's future health.
It may appear that way to an atheist such as yourself, but to us Christians,
it's everything.
Good. Keep it in the Christian houseold, then.
You lose.
We lose what?
--
****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "No one ever demonstrated, so far as I am aware, *
* the non-existence of Zeus or Thor - but they *
* have few followers now." Arthur C. Clarke *
****************************************************
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
