"Bible Bob" <biblebobnospam@biblebob.net> wrote in message
news:7hei51h82dlftm14k55halct81jok594bl@4ax.com...

There has been much posted about the right and wrong of praying for
atheists and agnostics who some say are "lost." Christians, including
myself, who have argued that vain repetitious mocking prayer is wrong
have been spoken against. Below is Biblical evidence that immoral
behavior on the part of Christians against unbeleivers is wrong.

Prayer for the Lost.

The Bible does not speak of atheists or agnostics as "the lost."
Christians incorrectly use the words through poor habit and ignorance.
When Jesus spoke of "the lost" He always spoke of the lost of lost
sheep of the house of Isreal. At the bottom of this post are the
verses where the word "lost" is used in the NT. It occurs only in the
Gospels and applies only to Israel.

Atheists and agnostics are not Jews. They are Gentiles. The message
to the Gentiles did to come until after the resurrection and ascension
when Gentiles were given the invitation to join the church of the body
of Christ. God did not force the Gentiles to become saved. God put
forth an invitation that the Gentiles could accept or reject. God
honors free will because God is a just God.

Now it is true that those Gentiles who chose not to be saved will
suffer the consequences for making the wrong decision; but we
Christians have no right to attack them for exercising the free will
that God gave them to exercise. You do not get people saved by
criticizing and condemning them.

It is not the Christian's job to convict people of sin or save anyone.

Too often Christians assume the role of God or Jesus Christ. They
beleive that they have the power to convict people of sin or that they
can save people. Neither is true and to think otherwise is self
idolatry.

Romans 10:9 KJV
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt
believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou
shalt be saved.

It is God that does the saving, not the Christian.

It is the Comforter's job to convict people of sin; not the Christian.

John 16:7 KJV
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go
away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but
if I depart, I will send him unto you.

John 16:8 KJV
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of
righteousness, and of judgment:

John 16:9 KJV
Of sin, because they believe not on me;

John 16:10 KJV
Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

John 16:11 KJV
Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Christians who try to usurp the power and authority of God or the holy
spirit are doing wrong. Even the words "reprove" "rebuke" and
"exhort" are applicable to actions between believes; not between
believers and unbelievers. How can one reprove someone for not doing
what the Word teaches if the Word does not apply to that individual?

Matthew 5:44 is cited as authority for prayer for atheists and
agnostics:

Matthew 5:44 KJV
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do
good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use
you, and persecute you;


The problem is that the words "bless them that curse you, do good to
them that hate you" and "despitefully use you, and" are not in the
Greek texts. The vese should read:

Matthew 5:44 KJV
But I say unto you, Love your enemies and pray for them which
persecute you;

If an atheist or agnostic is not bothering you, is he your enemy? If
he is not bothering you is he persecting you? Is "love" using vain
repetitious mocking prayer against unbelievers? Would Jesus use vain
repetitions show off mockery against atheists or agnostics (Gentiles)?
Or would Jesus do as he taught his disciples to do?

Matthew 6:5 KJV
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites [are]: for
they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the
streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They
have their reward.

Matthew 6:6 KJV
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast
shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father
which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Matthew 6:7 KJV
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for
they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Matthew 6:8 KJV
Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what
things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

The reason that Christians are making public prayer against atheists
and agnostics is because they do not realize that it is the goodness
of God that leads people to repentence:

Romans 2:4 KJV
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and
longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to
repentance?


God is not in the business of abusing people or belittling people to
get thems saved. Do a word study on "goodness" and you wil see that
goodness is a fruit of the spirit - love. False love manifested in
the form of false prayer is not not love and is not goodness.

Christians need to clean up their own act before they begin railing on
those who are not Christians.

1 Peter 4:17 KJV
For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God:
and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that
obey not the gospel of God?

Whether an agnostic or atheist gets saved is not our business, it id
God's business and for any one of us to try to usurpt the authority of
God is just plain wrong.

Having said all that. There are some atheists and agnostics that
attack members of the church of the body of Christ and they will get
their reward. It is not our job to dish out rewards and consequences.
There is nothing wrong with putting one of them in their place or
exposing their falsehoods IF your motive is to protect yourself or the
church. But, that must be done with the Word; not with name calling,
phoney prayer and other forms of hypocricy. There is nothing wrong
with praying for an atheist or agnostic in your private prayer life;
or, even for praying for a specific need of an atheist or agnostic in
public if you heart is right. There would be nothing wrong with
praying for the health of an atheist - unless he tells you to stop.
But to make a form letter vain repetitious public prayer to save the
soul of an atheist is hypocricy and wrong.

Now, with regard to the lost. Below is every verse where the word
appears. Notice that it is used only in the Gospels and that it
speaks of the lost sheep of the house of Isreal. You have to own
something before it can be lost. Jesus came to call out his own which
were the lost sheep of the house of Isreal. He did not come to call
out the goats or the dogs of the Gentiles. Gentiles were not called
until later when God revealed to Peter and Paul that salvation was
available to the Gentiles. Atheists and agnostics do not belong to
God or the church of God. They may be wandering in darkness and lost
from our point of view; but that is between them and God. We are
ambassadors for Christ and speak what God tells us to speak to "whom"
God tells us to speak. It is the goodness of God that leads people to
repentence; not overbearing hypocricy.




Matthew 5:13 KJV
Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour,
wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but
to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

Matthew 10:6 KJV
But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 15:24 KJV
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the
house of Israel.

Matthew 18:11 KJV
For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

Mark 9:50 KJV
Salt [is] good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will
ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with
another.

Luke 14:34 KJV
Salt [is] good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall
it be seasoned?

Luke 15:4 KJV
What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth
not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that
which is lost, until he find it?

Luke 15:9 KJV
And when she hath found [it], she calleth [her] friends and [her]
neighbours together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the
piece which I had lost.

Luke 19:10 KJV
For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

John 6:12 KJV
When they were filled, he said unto his disciples, Gather up the
fragments that remain, that nothing be lost.

John 17:12 KJV
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those
that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son
of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

John 18:9 KJV
That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou
gavest me have I lost none.

This all sounds very nice, aside from the fact the Christianity itself is a
pack of lies, Bible Bob has really gone out of his way to create an M&M full
of *****.

Bible Bob wrote:

There has been much posted about the right and wrong of praying for
atheists and agnostics who some say are "lost." Christians,
including myself, who have argued that vain repetitious mocking
prayer is wrong have been spoken against. Below is Biblical
evidence that immoral behavior on the part of Christians against
unbeleivers is wrong.

Well I'm not on the aa list myself, but personally I
don't give a damn if religious folks want to pray
for me. It does me no good whatsoever, but nor does it
do me any harm whatsoever.

Hey, if Jason is reading this then go ahead and add my
name to that list if you feel like. Pray away, for all
the good it will do.