Pre-Civil War Free Vs. Slave States



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "maff"
Date: 10 Nov 2004 05:00:40 PM
Object: Pre-Civil War Free Vs. Slave States
Pre-Civil War Free Vs. Slave States
http://www.selekta.com/map.jpg
.

User: "Denis Loubet"

Title: Re: Pre-Civil War Free Vs. Slave States 10 Nov 2004 06:01:41 PM
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:18510aff.0411101511.56d78510@posting.google.com...

Pre-Civil War Free Vs. Slave States
http://www.selekta.com/map.jpg

Correlation does not equal causation.
But DAMN!
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
.
User: "Dale"

Title: Re: Pre-Civil War Free Vs. Slave States 10 Nov 2004 09:56:04 PM
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:nbCdne022vbnMw_cRVn-uQ@io.com...


"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:18510aff.0411101511.56d78510@posting.google.com...

Pre-Civil War Free Vs. Slave States
http://www.selekta.com/map.jpg


Correlation does not equal causation.

But DAMN!

Hasn't everyone seen THESE maps yet?
http://www.cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/election/
.

User: "John Wilkins"

Title: Re: Pre-Civil War Free Vs. Slave States 10 Nov 2004 06:25:01 PM
Denis Loubet <dloubet@io.com> wrote:

"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:18510aff.0411101511.56d78510@posting.google.com...

Pre-Civil War Free Vs. Slave States
http://www.selekta.com/map.jpg


Correlation does not equal causation.

But DAMN!

Looks like they're gaining ground :-)
But seriously, is this any surprise? The attitudes of conservatism were
understood to be in Southern states well before there even *was* a
George Bush.
--
John S. Wilkins

web: www.wilkins.id.au blog: evolvethought.blogspot.com
God cheats
.
User: "maff"

Title: Re: Pre-Civil War Free Vs. Slave States 12 Nov 2004 02:33:15 PM
Marc Carter <marcMUNGEcarter@speakMUNGEeasy.net> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.11.12.11.35.52.85433@speakMUNGEeasy.net>...

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 00:48:53 +0000, John Thompson wrote:

Marc Carter <marcMUNGEcarter@speakMUNGEeasy.net> wrote in message
news:<pan.2004.11.11.12.31.08.833286@speakMUNGEeasy.net>...


[snipperolio]

It continues to amaze me that when I was a kid, people were still pissed
off about the Civil War (when I was in school we were taught that
secession was prompted by "states rights," not slavery, which is an
example of the coded language that GOP has contemporarily tapped in to).



I have read that this shift started before the war even ended. The
speeches made by the politicians from seceding states in 1860/61 leave no
doubt that slavery was the issue at that time. But when people realized
they were probably going to lose the war, and that slavery would be gone,
they changed the issue in their own mind to avoid facing the fact that it
was their actions in trying to defend slavery that actually destroyed it.
(Without secession slavery would have eventually gone in the US, but it
would have been much later and might have included compensation for slave
owners).


I think this is right; might be this is a fairly early case of political
spin (I'm not sure about the cognitive dissonance interpretation, but it

But the Confederates were the biggest enforcers of Federal power with
the 'Fugititive Slave Act'.
Fugitive Slave Act
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=18510aff.0401051315.1c99c7e8%40posting.google.com

bears thinking about). I would think that everyone knew "states'
rights" meant "keep the federal government from taking our slaves," and in
some senses it's still the code used today. When Bobby Kennedy was sending
federal marshals in to desegregate schools, George Wallace was screaming
about "states' rights."

There might actually be a reasonable federalist argument about states
rights, but today it's gotten so accreted with other meanings, I'm not
sure how to tease it all out, and I default to the cynical
interpretation. So when I hear the GOP southerners talking about states'
rights, I am somewhat skeptical about motives. Notice how conveniently
states' rights for Florida was trumped in the 2000 election by Federal
activist judges.

m

.



User: "Steven J."

Title: Re: Pre-Civil War Free Vs. Slave States 11 Nov 2004 04:49:51 PM
"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:18510aff.0411101511.56d78510@posting.google.com...

Pre-Civil War Free Vs. Slave States
http://www.selekta.com/map.jpg

The match-up is less precise, I think, if you examine the data at a finer
level. See, e.g. http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/weblog/286.html There
are large pro-Kerry pockets all through the south, and plenty of Bush
support even in New England. The forgoing map is an attempt to correct (on
the basis of population) for maps like the one at:
http://fs.huntingdon.edu/jlewis/Outlines/BushCountyMapMandate.htm, produced
to imply much wider support for Bush than actual numbers would reflect. But
either indicates that the Kerry vs. Bush split better correlates with urban
vs. suburban/rural population patterns than with antebellum political
sentiments.
-- Steven J.
.

User: "maff"

Title: Re: Pre-Civil War Free Vs. Slave States 12 Nov 2004 04:23:32 AM
(maff) wrote in message news:<18510aff.0411101511.56d78510@posting.google.com>...

Pre-Civil War Free Vs. Slave States
http://www.selekta.com/map.jpg

Pre-Civil War Free Vs. Slave States
http://snipurl.com/al5p
.

User: "Rune Børsjø"

Title: Re: Pre-Civil War Free Vs. Slave States 11 Nov 2004 07:30:37 AM
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 23:00:40 +0000 (UTC),
(maff)
wrote:

Pre-Civil War Free Vs. Slave States
http://www.selekta.com/map.jpg

Hehe maff, it's not for no reason that people have been talking about
a second civil war for decades already, y'know.
.


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