| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Ron B." |
| Date: |
23 Jan 2006 11:47:14 PM |
| Object: |
Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist |
Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist
POSTED: 11:49 am CST January 23, 2006
ROME -- Lawyers for a Roman Catholic priest have been ordered to appear
in court next week after he was accused of unlawfully asserting that
Jesus Christ really existed.
The Rev. Enrico Righi was named in a 2002 complaint filed by Luigi
Cascioli after Righi wrote in a parish bulletin that Jesus did indeed
exist, and that he was born of a couple named Mary and Joseph in
Bethlehem and lived in Nazareth.
Cascioli, a lifelong atheist, claims that Righi violated an Italian law
against fraudulently deceiving people. He considers the Gospels biased
and other evidence of Jesus' existence scant.
Cascioli added that his ultimate goal is the European Court of Human
Rights, where he intends to pursue his case against the church for what
he calls "religious racism."
http://www.kcci.com/family/6369069/detail.html?rss=des&psp=irresistible
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| User: "Ben Kaufman" |
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| Title: Re: Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist |
29 Jan 2006 09:12:28 PM |
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On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 23:47:14 -0600, "Ron B." <zypher@spamcop.net> wrote:
Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist
POSTED: 11:49 am CST January 23, 2006
ROME -- Lawyers for a Roman Catholic priest have been ordered to appear
in court next week after he was accused of unlawfully asserting that
Jesus Christ really existed.
The Rev. Enrico Righi was named in a 2002 complaint filed by Luigi
Cascioli after Righi wrote in a parish bulletin that Jesus did indeed
exist, and that he was born of a couple named Mary and Joseph in
Bethlehem and lived in Nazareth.
Cascioli, a lifelong atheist, claims that Righi violated an Italian law
against fraudulently deceiving people. He considers the Gospels biased
and other evidence of Jesus' existence scant.
Cascioli added that his ultimate goal is the European Court of Human
Rights, where he intends to pursue his case against the church for what
he calls "religious racism."
http://www.kcci.com/family/6369069/detail.html?rss=des&psp=irresistible
What is interesting here is how the more recent news stories of this omit the
part where the priest provoked this action by denouncing Cascioli in that
bulletin.
http://tinyurl.com/dpr2x
Ben
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist |
30 Jan 2006 11:12:19 AM |
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On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 22:12:28 -0500, Ben Kaufman
<spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-dollars@pobox.com> wrote in alt.atheism
On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 23:47:14 -0600, "Ron B." <zypher@spamcop.net> wrote:
Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist
POSTED: 11:49 am CST January 23, 2006
ROME -- Lawyers for a Roman Catholic priest have been ordered to appear
in court next week after he was accused of unlawfully asserting that
Jesus Christ really existed.
The Rev. Enrico Righi was named in a 2002 complaint filed by Luigi
Cascioli after Righi wrote in a parish bulletin that Jesus did indeed
exist, and that he was born of a couple named Mary and Joseph in
Bethlehem and lived in Nazareth.
Cascioli, a lifelong atheist, claims that Righi violated an Italian law
against fraudulently deceiving people. He considers the Gospels biased
and other evidence of Jesus' existence scant.
Cascioli added that his ultimate goal is the European Court of Human
Rights, where he intends to pursue his case against the church for what
he calls "religious racism."
http://www.kcci.com/family/6369069/detail.html?rss=des&psp=irresistible
What is interesting here is how the more recent news stories of this omit the
part where the priest provoked this action by denouncing Cascioli in that
bulletin.
Very interesting. So much for media integrity at the times.
http://tinyurl.com/dpr2x
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-1967413,00.html#cid=OTC-RSS&attr=World
The Times January 03, 2006
Prove Christ exists, judge orders priest
From Richard Owen in Rome
AN ITALIAN judge has ordered a priest to appear in court this month to
prove that Jesus Christ existed.
The case against Father Enrico Righi has been brought in the town of
Viterbo, north of Rome, by Luigi Cascioli, a retired agronomist who once
studied for the priesthood but later became a militant atheist.
Signor Cascioli, author of a book called The Fable of Christ, began
legal proceedings against Father Righi three years ago after the priest
denounced Signor Cascioli in the parish newsletter for questioning
Christ’s historical existence.
Yesterday Gaetano Mautone, a judge in Viterbo, set a preliminary hearing
for the end of this month and ordered Father Righi to appear. The judge
had earlier refused to take up the case, but was overruled last month by
the Court of Appeal, which agreed that Signor Cascioli had a reasonable
case for his accusation that Father Righi was “abusing popular
credulity”.
Signor Cascioli’s contention — echoed in numerous atheist books and
internet sites — is that there was no reliable evidence that Jesus lived
and died in 1st-century Palestine apart from the Gospel accounts, which
Christians took on faith. There is therefore no basis for Christianity,
he claims.
Signor Cascioli’s one-man campaign came to a head at a court hearing
last April when he lodged his accusations of “abuse of popular
credulity” and “impersonation”, both offences under the Italian penal
code. He argued that all claims for the existence of Jesus from sources
other than the Bible stem from authors who lived “after the time of the
hypothetical Jesus” and were therefore not reliable witnesses.
Signor Cascioli maintains that early Christian writers confused Jesus
with John of Gamala, an anti-Roman Jewish insurgent in 1st-century
Palestine. Church authorities were therefore guilty of “substitution of
persons”.
The Roman historians Tacitus and Suetonius mention a “Christus” or
“Chrestus”, but were writing “well after the life of the purported
Jesus” and were relying on hearsay.
Father Righi said there was overwhelming testimony to Christ’s existence
in religious and secular texts. Millions had in any case believed in
Christ as both man and Son of God for 2,000 years.
“If Cascioli does not see the sun in the sky at midday, he cannot sue me
because I see it and he does not,” Father Righi said.
Signor Cascioli said that the Gospels themselves were full of
inconsistencies and did not agree on the names of the 12 apostles. He
said that he would withdraw his legal action if Father Righi came up
with irrefutable proof of Christ’s existence by the end of the month.
The Vatican has so far declined to comment.
THE EVIDENCE
# The Gospels say that Jesus was born to the Virgin Mary in Bethlehem,
grew up in Nazareth, preached and performed miracles in Galilee and died
on the Cross in Jerusalem
# In his Antiquities of the Jews at the end of the 1st century,
Josephus, the Jewish historian, refers to Jesus as “a wise man, a doer
of wonderful works” who “drew over to him both many of the Jews and many
of the Gentiles”
# Muslims believe Jesus was a great prophet. Many Jewish theologians
regard Jesus as an itinerant rabbi who popularised many of the beliefs
of liberal Jews. Neither Muslims nor Jews believe he was the Messiah and
Son of God
# Tacitus, the Roman historian who lived from 55 to 120, mentions
“Christus” in his Annals. In about 120 Suetonius, author of The Lives of
the Caesars, says: “Since the Jews constantly made disturbances at the
instigation of Chrestus, Emperor Claudius expelled them from Rome.”
Copyright 2006 Times Newspapers Ltd.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
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| User: "David" |
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| Title: Re: Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist |
27 Jan 2006 01:15:55 PM |
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Ron B. wrote:
Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist
POSTED: 11:49 am CST January 23, 2006
ROME -- Lawyers for a Roman Catholic priest have been ordered to appear
in court next week after he was accused of unlawfully asserting that
Jesus Christ really existed.
Hopefully Jesus will get a fair trial this time.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist |
27 Jan 2006 08:28:39 PM |
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On 27 Jan 2006 11:15:55 -0800, "David" <davecheryll@earthlink.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <1138389355.452905.321740@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Ron B. wrote:
Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist
POSTED: 11:49 am CST January 23, 2006
ROME -- Lawyers for a Roman Catholic priest have been ordered to appear
in court next week after he was accused of unlawfully asserting that
Jesus Christ really existed.
Hopefully Jesus will get a fair trial this time.
Assuming that he existed the last time, of course.
Can you explain why there is zero extant Roman evidence of this
'trial', nor any contemporary evidence for the total solar eclipse
that was supposed to happen?
.
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| User: "David" |
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| Title: Re: Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist |
27 Jan 2006 09:01:17 PM |
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Michael Gray wrote:
On 27 Jan 2006 11:15:55 -0800, "David" <davecheryll@earthlink.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <1138389355.452905.321740@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Ron B. wrote:
Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist
POSTED: 11:49 am CST January 23, 2006
ROME -- Lawyers for a Roman Catholic priest have been ordered to appear
in court next week after he was accused of unlawfully asserting that
Jesus Christ really existed.
Hopefully Jesus will get a fair trial this time.
Assuming that he existed the last time, of course.
I guess we will have to wait for the judge's ruling on that one.
Can you explain why there is zero extant Roman evidence of this
'trial',
Probably because the Romans did not put him on trial.
nor any contemporary evidence for the total solar eclipse
that was supposed to happen?
Who said there was a total solar eclipse?
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist |
27 Jan 2006 10:17:33 PM |
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On 27 Jan 2006 19:01:17 -0800, "David" <davecheryll@earthlink.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <1138417277.758211.79300@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Michael Gray wrote:
On 27 Jan 2006 11:15:55 -0800, "David" <davecheryll@earthlink.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <1138389355.452905.321740@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Ron B. wrote:
Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist
POSTED: 11:49 am CST January 23, 2006
ROME -- Lawyers for a Roman Catholic priest have been ordered to appear
in court next week after he was accused of unlawfully asserting that
Jesus Christ really existed.
Hopefully Jesus will get a fair trial this time.
Assuming that he existed the last time, of course.
I guess we will have to wait for the judge's ruling on that one.
Can you explain why there is zero extant Roman evidence of this
'trial',
Probably because the Romans did not put him on trial.
Irellevant.
They were intimately involved, and literate.
nor any contemporary evidence for the total solar eclipse
that was supposed to happen?
Who said there was a total solar eclipse?
The person who wrote the gospel according to Luke.
"skotizouai" is greek for 'to be covered with darkness, as of heavenly
bodies deprived of light'.
As close as one could then get in Greek, to our "eclipse".
.
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| User: "David" |
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| Title: Re: Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist |
27 Jan 2006 10:44:33 PM |
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Michael Gray wrote:
On 27 Jan 2006 19:01:17 -0800, "David" <davecheryll@earthlink.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <1138417277.758211.79300@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Michael Gray wrote:
On 27 Jan 2006 11:15:55 -0800, "David" <davecheryll@earthlink.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <1138389355.452905.321740@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Ron B. wrote:
Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist
POSTED: 11:49 am CST January 23, 2006
ROME -- Lawyers for a Roman Catholic priest have been ordered to appear
in court next week after he was accused of unlawfully asserting that
Jesus Christ really existed.
Hopefully Jesus will get a fair trial this time.
Assuming that he existed the last time, of course.
I guess we will have to wait for the judge's ruling on that one.
Can you explain why there is zero extant Roman evidence of this
'trial',
Probably because the Romans did not put him on trial.
Irellevant.
Wrong.
They were intimately involved,
Not in the trial.
and literate.
True.
nor any contemporary evidence for the total solar eclipse
that was supposed to happen?
Who said there was a total solar eclipse?
The person who wrote the gospel according to Luke.
You are mistaken.
"skotizouai" is greek for 'to be covered with darkness, as of heavenly
bodies deprived of light'.
Did anyone read the words "solar eclipse" in the above passage?
Neither did I.
As close as one could then get in Greek, to our "eclipse".
Not close enough.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist |
28 Jan 2006 05:01:43 AM |
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On 27 Jan 2006 20:44:33 -0800, "David" <davecheryll@earthlink.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <1138423472.991993.90840@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Michael Gray wrote:
On 27 Jan 2006 19:01:17 -0800, "David" <davecheryll@earthlink.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <1138417277.758211.79300@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Michael Gray wrote:
On 27 Jan 2006 11:15:55 -0800, "David" <davecheryll@earthlink.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <1138389355.452905.321740@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Ron B. wrote:
Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist
POSTED: 11:49 am CST January 23, 2006
ROME -- Lawyers for a Roman Catholic priest have been ordered to appear
in court next week after he was accused of unlawfully asserting that
Jesus Christ really existed.
Hopefully Jesus will get a fair trial this time.
Assuming that he existed the last time, of course.
I guess we will have to wait for the judge's ruling on that one.
Can you explain why there is zero extant Roman evidence of this
'trial',
Probably because the Romans did not put him on trial.
Irellevant.
Wrong.
They were intimately involved,
Not in the trial.
and literate.
True.
nor any contemporary evidence for the total solar eclipse
that was supposed to happen?
Who said there was a total solar eclipse?
The person who wrote the gospel according to Luke.
You are mistaken.
"skotizouai" is greek for 'to be covered with darkness, as of heavenly
bodies deprived of light'.
Did anyone read the words "solar eclipse" in the above passage?
Neither did I.
As close as one could then get in Greek, to our "eclipse".
Not close enough.
David, you can read biblical Greek, do you?
Or not?
Turn your newsreader to codepage for Windows:Greek.
(01253)
What, with you being a Greek scholar, this will be a piece of cake.
OK, conjugate ôéèçìé in the aorist optative.
(In less than a day. No cheating now!)
Otherwise, my translation stands.
.
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| User: "David" |
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| Title: Re: Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist |
28 Jan 2006 10:32:03 AM |
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Michael Gray wrote:
On 27 Jan 2006 20:44:33 -0800, "David" <davecheryll@earthlink.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <1138423472.991993.90840@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Michael Gray wrote:
On 27 Jan 2006 19:01:17 -0800, "David" <davecheryll@earthlink.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <1138417277.758211.79300@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Michael Gray wrote:
On 27 Jan 2006 11:15:55 -0800, "David" <davecheryll@earthlink.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <1138389355.452905.321740@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Ron B. wrote:
Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist
POSTED: 11:49 am CST January 23, 2006
ROME -- Lawyers for a Roman Catholic priest have been ordered to=
appear
in court next week after he was accused of unlawfully asserting =
that
Jesus Christ really existed.
Hopefully Jesus will get a fair trial this time.
Assuming that he existed the last time, of course.
I guess we will have to wait for the judge's ruling on that one.
Can you explain why there is zero extant Roman evidence of this
'trial',
Probably because the Romans did not put him on trial.
Irellevant.
Wrong.
They were intimately involved,
Not in the trial.
and literate.
True.
nor any contemporary evidence for the total solar eclipse
that was supposed to happen?
Who said there was a total solar eclipse?
The person who wrote the gospel according to Luke.
You are mistaken.
"skotizouai" is greek for 'to be covered with darkness, as of heavenly
bodies deprived of light'.
Did anyone read the words "solar eclipse" in the above passage?
Neither did I.
As close as one could then get in Greek, to our "eclipse".
Not close enough.
David, you can read biblical Greek, do you?
Do I?
Or not
Also possible.
Turn your newsreader to codepage for Windows:Greek.
(01253)
Why should I?
What, with you being a Greek scholar, this will be a piece of cake.
I am a Greek scholar?
OK, conjugate =F4=E9=E8=E7=EC=E9 in the aorist optative.
I don't take orders from you.
(In less than a day. No cheating now!)
Michael Gray apparently think he can make me take a test. He is as
wrong in this as his claim that the Romans were intimately involved in
Jesus' trial.
Otherwise, my translation stands.
Let's review your translation again:
"'skotizouai' is greek for 'to be covered with darkness, as of heavenly
bodies deprived of light'."
Did anybody find the words "solar eclipse" in his translation this
time?
Neither did I.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist |
28 Jan 2006 08:31:26 PM |
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On 28 Jan 2006 08:32:03 -0800, "David" <davecheryll@earthlink.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <1138465923.164291.282780@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Michael Gray wrote:
On 27 Jan 2006 20:44:33 -0800, "David" <davecheryll@earthlink.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <1138423472.991993.90840@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Michael Gray wrote:
On 27 Jan 2006 19:01:17 -0800, "David" <davecheryll@earthlink.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <1138417277.758211.79300@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Michael Gray wrote:
On 27 Jan 2006 11:15:55 -0800, "David" <davecheryll@earthlink.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <1138389355.452905.321740@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Ron B. wrote:
Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist
POSTED: 11:49 am CST January 23, 2006
ROME -- Lawyers for a Roman Catholic priest have been ordered to appear
in court next week after he was accused of unlawfully asserting that
Jesus Christ really existed.
Hopefully Jesus will get a fair trial this time.
Assuming that he existed the last time, of course.
I guess we will have to wait for the judge's ruling on that one.
Can you explain why there is zero extant Roman evidence of this
'trial',
Probably because the Romans did not put him on trial.
Irellevant.
Wrong.
They were intimately involved,
Not in the trial.
and literate.
True.
nor any contemporary evidence for the total solar eclipse
that was supposed to happen?
Who said there was a total solar eclipse?
The person who wrote the gospel according to Luke.
You are mistaken.
"skotizouai" is greek for 'to be covered with darkness, as of heavenly
bodies deprived of light'.
Did anyone read the words "solar eclipse" in the above passage?
Neither did I.
As close as one could then get in Greek, to our "eclipse".
Not close enough.
David, you can read biblical Greek, do you?
Do I?
Or not
Also possible.
Turn your newsreader to codepage for Windows:Greek.
(01253)
Why should I?
What, with you being a Greek scholar, this will be a piece of cake.
I am a Greek scholar?
OK, conjugate ôéèçìé in the aorist optative.
I don't take orders from you.
(In less than a day. No cheating now!)
Michael Gray apparently think he can make me take a test. He is as
wrong in this as his claim that the Romans were intimately involved in
Jesus' trial.
Otherwise, my translation stands.
Let's review your translation again:
"'skotizouai' is greek for 'to be covered with darkness, as of heavenly
bodies deprived of light'."
Did anybody find the words "solar eclipse" in his translation this
time?
Neither did I.
David is closed minded and deliberately ignorant, and proud of his
ignorance to the point of hubris.
You quite simply must be a Christian.
<plonk>
.
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| User: "David" |
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| Title: Re: Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist |
29 Jan 2006 11:28:09 AM |
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Michael Gray wrote:
On 28 Jan 2006 08:32:03 -0800, "David" <davecheryll@earthlink.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <1138465923.164291.282780@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Michael Gray wrote:
On 27 Jan 2006 20:44:33 -0800, "David" <davecheryll@earthlink.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <1138423472.991993.90840@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Michael Gray wrote:
On 27 Jan 2006 19:01:17 -0800, "David" <davecheryll@earthlink.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <1138417277.758211.79300@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Michael Gray wrote:
On 27 Jan 2006 11:15:55 -0800, "David" <davecheryll@earthlink.ne=
t>
wrote:
- Refer: <1138389355.452905.321740@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.co=
m>
Ron B. wrote:
Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist
POSTED: 11:49 am CST January 23, 2006
ROME -- Lawyers for a Roman Catholic priest have been ordered=
to appear
in court next week after he was accused of unlawfully asserti=
ng that
Jesus Christ really existed.
Hopefully Jesus will get a fair trial this time.
Assuming that he existed the last time, of course.
I guess we will have to wait for the judge's ruling on that one.
Can you explain why there is zero extant Roman evidence of this
'trial',
Probably because the Romans did not put him on trial.
Irellevant.
Wrong.
They were intimately involved,
Not in the trial.
and literate.
True.
nor any contemporary evidence for the total solar eclipse
that was supposed to happen?
Who said there was a total solar eclipse?
The person who wrote the gospel according to Luke.
You are mistaken.
"skotizouai" is greek for 'to be covered with darkness, as of heave=
nly
bodies deprived of light'.
Did anyone read the words "solar eclipse" in the above passage?
Neither did I.
As close as one could then get in Greek, to our "eclipse".
Not close enough.
David, you can read biblical Greek, do you?
Do I?
Or not
Also possible.
Turn your newsreader to codepage for Windows:Greek.
(01253)
Why should I?
What, with you being a Greek scholar, this will be a piece of cake.
I am a Greek scholar?
OK, conjugate =F4=E9=E8=E7=EC=E9 in the aorist optative.
I don't take orders from you.
(In less than a day. No cheating now!)
Michael Gray apparently think he can make me take a test. He is as
wrong in this as his claim that the Romans were intimately involved in
Jesus' trial.
Otherwise, my translation stands.
Let's review your translation again:
"'skotizouai' is greek for 'to be covered with darkness, as of heavenly
bodies deprived of light'."
Did anybody find the words "solar eclipse" in his translation this
time?
Neither did I.
David is closed minded and deliberately ignorant,
Translation: Let's stop discussing the facts, and instead let's engage
in ad hominem attacks against those who dare to disagree with Michael
Gray.
and proud of his
ignorance to the point of hubris.
I am too modest to be proud of something I am not.
You quite simply must be a Christian.
And for the first time, Michael makes an good guess.
<plonk>
What was that? Was that the sound of the self-appointed teaching
assistant of Usenet realizing he has no power to assign homework?
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist |
25 Jan 2006 10:02:51 AM |
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Ron B. wrote:
Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist
POSTED: 11:49 am CST January 23, 2006
ROME -- Lawyers for a Roman Catholic priest have been ordered to appear
in court next week after he was accused of unlawfully asserting that
Jesus Christ really existed.
The Rev. Enrico Righi was named in a 2002 complaint filed by Luigi
Cascioli after Righi wrote in a parish bulletin that Jesus did indeed
exist, and that he was born of a couple named Mary and Joseph in
Bethlehem and lived in Nazareth.
Cascioli, a lifelong atheist, claims that Righi violated an Italian law
against fraudulently deceiving people. He considers the Gospels biased
and other evidence of Jesus' existence scant.
Cascioli added that his ultimate goal is the European Court of Human
Rights, where he intends to pursue his case against the church for what
he calls "religious racism."
http://www.kcci.com/family/6369069/detail.html?rss=des&psp=irresistible
I give this little chalenge on the internet when I get bored.
It's fun watching unbelievers tryiing to respond to it.
Let's write four books telling about an imaginary person giving
actual
towns where you claim these events occured, claiming he was born of a
virgin, preached in named towns, executed and rose from the dead and
convince most of the known world that it is true writing these four
books in the
major languages as the Bible in ancient times is found in Aramaic,
Greek, Coptic,Vetus Latin and other languages. It should be easier
this time
arround since the Romans used torture to get at the truth. Let's see if
you can PROVE your fantasy of a hoax. The power of the Roman Empire
couldn't disprove one jot or tittle of the four Gospels. I shall be
waiting for YOUR PROOF. GOD bless!
Pax Christi,
Jim
Show me the bones and I am out of here!
A few years ago the bones of Caiaphas
the high priest were found,
but none
of Jesus since He is risen. He is risen, indeed!
Bibical Archaeology Review, September/October 1992,p 38-44,76
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| User: "Ben Goren" |
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| Title: Re: Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist |
25 Jan 2006 11:10:06 AM |
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wrote:
I give this little chalenge on the internet when I get bored.
It's fun watching unbelievers tryiing to respond to it.
Let's write four books telling about an imaginary person
giving actual towns where you claim these events occured,
claiming he was born of a virgin, preached in named towns,
executed and rose from the dead and convince most of the known
world that it is true writing these four books in the major
languages as the Bible in ancient times is found in Aramaic,
Greek, Coptic,Vetus Latin and other languages. It should be
easier this time arround since the Romans used torture to get at
the truth. Let's see if you can PROVE your fantasy of a
hoax. The power of the Roman Empire couldn't disprove one jot or
tittle of the four Gospels. I shall be waiting for YOUR
PROOF. GOD bless!
This sort of thing goes on all the time. Ever heard of the Mormon
Church? Scientology? The Moonies? Not to mention the hundreds of
minor cults that're always popping up.
Besides, debunking the Bible is trivial. For starters, each book
is contradicted on every significant point by at least one of the
others. And, no, it's not just something as trivial as Jesus
giving the same sermon on a mountain or a plain. He's got
different fathers, he spends his childhood in different countries
hundreds of miles apart, he stuns people at his trial either with
his perfect silence or extended eloquence, and he either doesn't
ascend, ascends the day he's resurrected from two different
places, or ascends over a month later from yet another place. You
couldn't write a more conflicting account if you tried! Small
wonder, though, considering that the storytellers can't even agree
upon who the main characters were.
Then we've got the fact that the Bible contradicts documented
reality on every point, too. Nazareth didn't even exist for
centuries, there wasn't any mass slaughter of infants, there
weren't any earthquakes or eclipses at the time, and the curtain
in the Temple remained undamaged until 70 CE.
The /real/ kicker, though, is that not one contemporary account of
the period--and there're plenty of them--even hints at Jesus,
anybody who could be mistraken for Jesus, or any of the
events of the New Testament. No Jesus-like preachers giving
sermons to thousands--let alone feeding them all with table
scraps. No hordes of zombies roaming the streets. No spectacular
trials-of-the-century--and the trial as depicted in the New
Testament only could have been such. And /certainly/ nobody who'd
been very publicly executed continuing to do what he had been
executed for for weeks on end in an equally public manner.
Instead, all we've got is ludicrously fantastic and self-defeating
stories that date to generations after the ``fact'' and nothing
that even /pretends/ to be an eyewitness account.
Not only wouldn't you give this a second thought if your parents
hadn't brainwashed you as a child, you /don't./ The Bible is no
more or less fantastic or ill-supported than any of the similar
accounts from any other religion, yet you laugh at them as
casually as any atheist.
So grow up, already. There's no Santa Christ or Jesus Bunny, and
the Tooth Ghost isn't going to be leaving anything under your
pillow when you die. Sorry, life's a *****, and all that.
Cheers,
b&
--
EAC Memographer
BAAWA Knight of Blasphemy
``All but God can prove this sentence true.''
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist |
25 Jan 2006 12:57:59 PM |
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Ben Goren wrote:
jwsheffield@satx.rr.com wrote:
I give this little chalenge on the internet when I get bored.
It's fun watching unbelievers tryiing to respond to it.
Let's write four books telling about an imaginary person
giving actual towns where you claim these events occured,
claiming he was born of a virgin, preached in named towns,
executed and rose from the dead and convince most of the known
world that it is true writing these four books in the major
languages as the Bible in ancient times is found in Aramaic,
Greek, Coptic,Vetus Latin and other languages. It should be
easier this time arround since the Romans used torture to get at
the truth. Let's see if you can PROVE your fantasy of a
hoax. The power of the Roman Empire couldn't disprove one jot or
tittle of the four Gospels. I shall be waiting for YOUR
PROOF. GOD bless!
Show me the bones and I am out of here!
A few years ago the bones of Caiaphas
the high priest were found,
but none
of Jesus since He is risen. He is risen, indeed!
Bibical Archaeology Review, September/October 1992,p 38-44,76
This sort of thing goes on all the time. Ever heard of the Mormon
Church? Scientology? The Moonies? Not to mention the hundreds of
minor cults that're always popping up.
You said it "minor cults' that no one takes
seriously.
Besides, debunking the Bible is trivial. For starters, each book
is contradicted on every significant point by at least one of the
others. And, no, it's not just something as trivial as Jesus
giving the same sermon on a mountain or a plain. He's got
different fathers, he spends his childhood in different countries
hundreds of miles apart, he stuns people at his trial either with
his perfect silence or extended eloquence, and he either doesn't
ascend, ascends the day he's resurrected from two different
places, or ascends over a month later from yet another place. You
couldn't write a more conflicting account if you tried! Small
wonder, though, considering that the storytellers can't even agree
upon who the main characters were.
Harmonies have been written for centuries. Tatian's is still
extant, I have a copy in my library, and the minor
differences are evidence their was no collusion.
Then we've got the fact that the Bible contradicts documented
reality on every point, too. Nazareth didn't even exist for
centuries, there wasn't any mass slaughter of infants, there
weren't any earthquakes or eclipses at the time, and the curtain
in the Temple remained undamaged until 70 CE.
Funny if Nazareth didn't exist, the Romans didn't
point that out in a tome or the other events.
The /real/ kicker, though, is that not one contemporary account of
the period--and there're plenty of them--even hints at Jesus,
anybody who could be mistraken for Jesus, or any of the
events of the New Testament. No Jesus-like preachers giving
sermons to thousands--let alone feeding them all with table
scraps. No hordes of zombies roaming the streets. No spectacular
trials-of-the-century--and the trial as depicted in the New
Testament only could have been such. And /certainly/ nobody who'd
been very publicly executed continuing to do what he had been
executed for for weeks on end in an equally public manner.
As early as 66 A.D. Nero was using Christians as torches
(Tacitus, Annals of Rome. The bigger question is why the
Romans didn't use someone like Josephus to refute Christianity.
Instead, all we've got is ludicrously fantastic and self-defeating
stories that date to generations after the ``fact'' and nothing
that even /pretends/ to be an eyewitness account.
You are quoting scholars from the 20th century. Lets quote
an author from the 2nd who heard Polycarp in his youth and
Polycarp knew the Apostle John, Irenaeus of Lyons.
"So Matthew ... issued a writting of the gospel...Peter and Paul
were preaching the gospel at Rome...after their decease, Mark, the
disciple
and interpreter of Peter, also handed down to us in writting what Peter
had preached. Then Luke, the follower of Paul, recorded in a book
the gospel as it was preached by him. Finally John, the disciple of the
Lord,
who had also lain on his breast, himself published the Gospel,
while he was residing at Ephesus in Asia."
"Early Christian Fathers", Cyril C. Richardson,
Not only wouldn't you give this a second thought if your parents
hadn't brainwashed you as a child, you /don't./ The Bible is no
more or less fantastic or ill-supported than any of the similar
accounts from any other religion, yet you laugh at them as
casually as any atheist.
Sorry, I was raised an atheist, and was taught
the German Scholarship that claimed the Bible
was not true.
So grow up, already. There's no Santa Christ or Jesus Bunny, and
the Tooth Ghost isn't going to be leaving anything under your
pillow when you die. Sorry, life's a *****, and all that.
So, then it should be easy for
you to write your four books?
When may I read them?
So, if I am wrong we both end up dead,
If you are wrong, don't ask.
Did the great nothing in the sky tell you
there is no God?
Regards,
Jim
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist |
27 Jan 2006 09:38:34 AM |
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wrote:
I give this little chalenge on the internet when I get bored.
It's fun watching unbelievers tryiing to respond to it.
Sounds like fun.
Let's write four books telling about an imaginary person giving
actual
towns where you claim these events occured,
Some of which don't exist when the accounts are said to have
happened...
claiming he was born of a virgin,
Like a half-dozen other local myths...
preached in named towns, executed and rose from the dead and
convince most of the known world that it is true
Failure alert: most of the "known world" has *never* accepted
your four books as true.
writing these four
books in the
major languages as the Bible in ancient times is found in Aramaic,
Greek, Coptic,Vetus Latin and other languages. It should be easier
this time
arround since the Romans used torture to get at the truth.
Do I get to exploit the fervent beliefs of superstitious, nationalistic
followers of a previously existing religion that has a messiah
prophecy,
and write my hoax books so I can pretend my messiah figure fulfills
this prophecy?
Let's see if you can PROVE your fantasy of a hoax.
Failure alert: jwsheffi is shifting the burden of proof. If you
claim X, it is up to you to prove X, it isn't up to us to prove
X is false.
The power of the Roman Empire
couldn't disprove one jot or tittle of the four Gospels.
The Roman government, being generally tolerant of the religious
beliefs of citizenry as long as they paid their taxes, didn't care
about proving or disproving xtianity. When they persecuted
xtians it wasn't because they thought they could prove them
wrong, it was because they were either socially disruptive
or made convenient scapegoats. Do you really expect someone
who claims direct descent from the god Jupiter to spend a lot
of effort trying to prove someone *else's* religious claims false?
I shall be
waiting for YOUR PROOF. GOD bless!
Religion has proved to be a powerful organizing force. Of the
literally
thousands of cults generated by the inhabitants of Europe and the
Middle East, two have become major religions. That doesn't mean
that either of these religions are true, it simply means that these two
have had the right combination of message, leadership and luck to
become more powerful than all others.
Think of it this way: if acceptance by numbers of people as true is
the
only valid measure of a religion's truth value, what does it tell you
that your religion is a minority in the world?
--
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist |
26 Jan 2006 01:44:17 PM |
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On 25 Jan 2006 08:02:51 -0800, wrote in
alt.atheism
Ron B. wrote:
Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist
POSTED: 11:49 am CST January 23, 2006
ROME -- Lawyers for a Roman Catholic priest have been ordered to appear
in court next week after he was accused of unlawfully asserting that
Jesus Christ really existed.
The Rev. Enrico Righi was named in a 2002 complaint filed by Luigi
Cascioli after Righi wrote in a parish bulletin that Jesus did indeed
exist, and that he was born of a couple named Mary and Joseph in
Bethlehem and lived in Nazareth.
Cascioli, a lifelong atheist, claims that Righi violated an Italian law
against fraudulently deceiving people. He considers the Gospels biased
and other evidence of Jesus' existence scant.
Cascioli added that his ultimate goal is the European Court of Human
Rights, where he intends to pursue his case against the church for what
he calls "religious racism."
http://www.kcci.com/family/6369069/detail.html?rss=des&psp=irresistible
I give this little chalenge on the internet when I get bored.
It's fun watching unbelievers tryiing to respond to it.
Let's write four books telling about an imaginary person giving
actual
towns where you claim these events occured, claiming he was born of a
virgin, preached in named towns, executed and rose from the dead and
convince most of the known world that it is true writing these four
books in the
major languages as the Bible in ancient times is found in Aramaic,
Greek, Coptic,Vetus Latin and other languages. It should be easier
this time
arround since the Romans used torture to get at the truth. Let's see if
you can PROVE your fantasy of a hoax. The power of the Roman Empire
couldn't disprove one jot or tittle of the four Gospels. I shall be
waiting for YOUR PROOF. GOD bless!
Damn! What a cowardly and dishonest moron! Go ahead, toddler, foul
your nappies in abject fear of Santa Claus putting a lump of coal in
your stocking.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist |
26 Jan 2006 01:20:39 AM |
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On 25 Jan 2006 08:02:51 -0800, wrote:
- Refer: <1138204971.122435.95200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
:
I give this little chalenge on the internet when I get bored.
It's fun watching unbelievers tryiing to respond to it.
Let's write four books telling about an imaginary person giving
actual
towns where you claim these events occured, claiming he was born of a
virgin, preached in named towns, executed and rose from the dead and
convince most of the known world that it is true writing these four
books in the
major languages as the Bible in ancient times is found in Aramaic,
Greek, Coptic,Vetus Latin and other languages. It should be easier
this time
arround since the Romans used torture to get at the truth. Let's see if
you can PROVE your fantasy of a hoax. The power of the Roman Empire
couldn't disprove one jot or tittle of the four Gospels. I shall be
waiting for YOUR PROOF. GOD bless!
:
Your "challenge" does not make any sense.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist |
26 Jan 2006 03:12:35 PM |
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Michael Gray wrote:
On 25 Jan 2006 08:02:51 -0800, wrote:
- Refer: <1138204971.122435.95200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
:
I give this little chalenge on the internet when I get bored.
It's fun watching unbelievers tryiing to respond to it.
Let's write four books telling about an imaginary person giving
actual
towns where you claim these events occured, claiming he was born of a
virgin, preached in named towns, executed and rose from the dead and
convince most of the known world that it is true writing these four
books in the
major languages as the Bible in ancient times is found in Aramaic,
Greek, Coptic,Vetus Latin and other languages. It should be easier
this time
arround since the Romans used torture to get at the truth. Let's see if
you can PROVE your fantasy of a hoax. The power of the Roman Empire
couldn't disprove one jot or tittle of the four Gospels. I shall be
waiting for YOUR PROOF. GOD bless!
Pax Christi,
Jim
Show me the bones and I am out of here!
A few years ago the bones of Caiaphas
the high priest were found,
but none
of Jesus since He is risen. He is risen, indeed!
Bibical Archaeology Review, September/October 1992,p 38-44,76
:
Your "challenge" does not make any sense.
Nice dodge!
Regards,
Jim
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist |
27 Jan 2006 01:00:59 PM |
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On 26 Jan 2006 13:12:35 -0800, wrote in
alt.atheism
[]
Pax Christi,
IOW, death.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist |
26 Jan 2006 08:48:41 PM |
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On 26 Jan 2006 13:12:35 -0800, wrote:
- Refer: <1138309955.303895.239850@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Michael Gray wrote:
On 25 Jan 2006 08:02:51 -0800, wrote:
- Refer: <1138204971.122435.95200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
:
I give this little chalenge on the internet when I get bored.
It's fun watching unbelievers tryiing to respond to it.
Let's write four books telling about an imaginary person giving
actual
towns where you claim these events occured, claiming he was born of a
virgin, preached in named towns, executed and rose from the dead and
convince most of the known world that it is true writing these four
books in the
major languages as the Bible in ancient times is found in Aramaic,
Greek, Coptic,Vetus Latin and other languages. It should be easier
this time
arround since the Romans used torture to get at the truth. Let's see if
you can PROVE your fantasy of a hoax. The power of the Roman Empire
couldn't disprove one jot or tittle of the four Gospels. I shall be
waiting for YOUR PROOF. GOD bless!
Pax Christi,
Jim
Show me the bones and I am out of here!
A few years ago the bones of Caiaphas
the high priest were found,
but none
of Jesus since He is risen. He is risen, indeed!
Bibical Archaeology Review, September/October 1992,p 38-44,76
:
Your "challenge" does not make any sense.
Nice dodge!
It's not a "dodge".
I genuinely cannot discern a coherent challenge any where amongst the
verbiage.
Are you able to restate it, as individual steps?
Do I have to write fours fictional books, in Aramaic, Greek, Coptic,
Vetus Latin and other languages?
This will pose a bit of a problem, as I am only part-way through
learning Coptic.
What "other languages"?
This bit of the "challenge" is staggeringly unclear.
What's the bit about Roman torture and truth got to with writing
fiction, apart from Latin prep at grammar school?
Then you somehow jump from the writing of four works of fiction, to
seeing if I can provide "proof" of a fanatasy that I allegedly hold.
How will writing 4 fairy stories, in middles eastern languages achieve
that?
It could not be less clear what your "challenge" is, or consists of.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist |
26 Jan 2006 10:02:32 PM |
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Michael Gray wrote:
On 26 Jan 2006 13:12:35 -0800, wrote:
- Refer: <1138309955.303895.239850@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Michael Gray wrote:
On 25 Jan 2006 08:02:51 -0800, wrote:
- Refer: <1138204971.122435.95200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
:
I give this little chalenge on the internet when I get bored.
It's fun watching unbelievers tryiing to respond to it.
Let's write four books telling about an imaginary person giving
actual
towns where you claim these events occured, claiming he was born of a
virgin, preached in named towns, executed and rose from the dead and
convince most of the known world that it is true writing these four
books in the
major languages as the Bible in ancient times is found in Aramaic,
Greek, Coptic,Vetus Latin and other languages. It should be easier
this time
arround since the Romans used torture to get at the truth. Let's see if
you can PROVE your fantasy of a hoax. The power of the Roman Empire
couldn't disprove one jot or tittle of the four Gospels. I shall be
waiting for YOUR PROOF. GOD bless!
Pax Christi,
Jim
Show me the bones and I am out of here!
A few years ago the bones of Caiaphas
the high priest were found,
but none
of Jesus since He is risen. He is risen, indeed!
Bibical Archaeology Review, September/October 1992,p 38-44,76
:
Your "challenge" does not make any sense.
Nice dodge!
It's not a "dodge".
I genuinely cannot discern a coherent challenge any where amongst the
verbiage.
Are you able to restate it, as individual steps?
Do I have to write fours fictional books, in Aramaic, Greek, Coptic,
Vetus Latin and other languages?
This will pose a bit of a problem, as I am only part-way through
learning Coptic.
What "other languages"?
This bit of the "challenge" is staggeringly unclear.
What's the bit about Roman torture and truth got to with writing
fiction, apart from Latin prep at grammar school?
Then you somehow jump from the writing of four works of fiction, to
seeing if I can provide "proof" of a fanatasy that I allegedly hold.
How will writing 4 fairy stories, in middles eastern languages achieve
that?
It could not be less clear what your "challenge" is, or consists of.
Just write them in English or any other language.
The point about torture is that if the body was not
risen, someone would have given up the body.
If the German Scholarship is true and the four Gospels
were late, the torture would have revealed the authors
and place. The many ancient languages shows the
widwspread spread of the movement. Also, I gave
non Roman Bibles, so those churches weren't following
the church of Rome.
The challenge is an empirical test of the theory that
you could write 4 books claiming them as true and
get away with it. Right now on cable a best selling
book, claiming to be true, is being exposed as a
work of fiction. The Roman Empire was a well run
police state(read Taxitus' Annals of Rome and see
what kind of state it was). The Romans would have quickly
exposed the four Gospels, if they were untrue.
You can prove me wrong by writting the four books
and saying they are true on Oprah! That should
be fun.
Regards,
Jim
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist |
27 Jan 2006 02:47:01 AM |
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On 26 Jan 2006 20:02:32 -0800, wrote:
- Refer: <1138334552.811597.105000@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Michael Gray wrote:
On 26 Jan 2006 13:12:35 -0800, wrote:
- Refer: <1138309955.303895.239850@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Michael Gray wrote:
On 25 Jan 2006 08:02:51 -0800, wrote:
- Refer: <1138204971.122435.95200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
:
I give this little chalenge on the internet when I get bored.
It's fun watching unbelievers tryiing to respond to it.
Let's write four books telling about an imaginary person giving
actual
towns where you claim these events occured, claiming he was born of a
virgin, preached in named towns, executed and rose from the dead and
convince most of the known world that it is true writing these four
books in the
major languages as the Bible in ancient times is found in Aramaic,
Greek, Coptic,Vetus Latin and other languages. It should be easier
this time
arround since the Romans used torture to get at the truth. Let's see if
you can PROVE your fantasy of a hoax. The power of the Roman Empire
couldn't disprove one jot or tittle of the four Gospels. I shall be
waiting for YOUR PROOF. GOD bless!
Pax Christi,
Jim
Show me the bones and I am out of here!
A few years ago the bones of Caiaphas
the high priest were found,
but none
of Jesus since He is risen. He is risen, indeed!
Bibical Archaeology Review, September/October 1992,p 38-44,76
:
Your "challenge" does not make any sense.
Nice dodge!
It's not a "dodge".
I genuinely cannot discern a coherent challenge any where amongst the
verbiage.
Are you able to restate it, as individual steps?
Do I have to write fours fictional books, in Aramaic, Greek, Coptic,
Vetus Latin and other languages?
This will pose a bit of a problem, as I am only part-way through
learning Coptic.
What "other languages"?
This bit of the "challenge" is staggeringly unclear.
What's the bit about Roman torture and truth got to with writing
fiction, apart from Latin prep at grammar school?
Then you somehow jump from the writing of four works of fiction, to
seeing if I can provide "proof" of a fanatasy that I allegedly hold.
How will writing 4 fairy stories, in middles eastern languages achieve
that?
It could not be less clear what your "challenge" is, or consists of.
Just write them in English or any other language.
I might just choose Ugaritic, Cornish, or Japanese.
No, I'll go for the sacred Kaurna Warra, instead.
It is my local language, after all.
(For tens of thousands of years, in fact)
If that is unacceptable to your challenge, then it should be in the
official rules, wherever they are, giving the reasons as to why one's
local language is banned.
The point about torture is that if the body was not
risen, someone would have given up the body.
Is that part of the challenge?
If not, then why mention it?
Is torture required to participate?
If the German Scholarship is true and the four Gospels
were late, the torture would have revealed the authors
and place. The many ancient languages shows the
widwspread spread of the movement. Also, I gave
non Roman Bibles, so those churches weren't following
the church of Rome.
The challenge is an empirical test of the theory that
you could write 4 books claiming them as true and
get away with it. Right now on cable a best selling
book, claiming to be true, is being exposed as a
work of fiction. The Roman Empire was a well run
police state(read Taxitus' Annals of Rome and see
what kind of state it was). The Romans would have quickly
exposed the four Gospels, if they were untrue.
You can prove me wrong by writting the four books
and saying they are true on Oprah! That should
be fun.
Regards,
Jim
So, let me get this straight:
If I were to "write" 4 books, and claim that they were true, an "get
away with it", that would constitute a "win", in terms of your
challenge?
Define "get away with it", please:
For how long?
How many people would have to be convinced?
How many doubters vs believers would it take to define a failure?
Is that ratio per book, or an overall average?
You need to be much clearer on what would constitute "success", and
what would constitute "failure".
You need to be much clearer as to exactly what the "challenge" entails
in the first place.
An excellent pro-forma guide would be:
http://www.randi.org/research/challenge.html
Provided you are willing to attribute any plagiarism, of course.
James Randi is quite approachable on such matters, and given a
sufficiently lucid explanation of our requirements, I am sure that he
would concede you stealing lumps of it.
And, at this stage, I'm willing to entertain the possibility of taking
up your "challenge", if it can be nailed down sufficiently such the
corners can't be curled up by you.
What do I win?
$1million?
Your humble and sincere recantation?
Both?
Pax Atheisti.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist |
27 Jan 2006 08:45:21 AM |
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Michael Gray wrote:
On 26 Jan 2006 20:02:32 -0800, wrote:
- Refer: <1138334552.811597.105000@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Michael Gray wrote:
On 26 Jan 2006 13:12:35 -0800, wrote:
- Refer: <1138309955.303895.239850@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Michael Gray wrote:
On 25 Jan 2006 08:02:51 -0800, wrote:
- Refer: <1138204971.122435.95200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
:
I give this little chalenge on the internet when I get bored.
It's fun watching unbelievers tryiing to respond to it.
Let's write four books telling about an imaginary person giving
actual
towns where you claim these events occured, claiming he was born of a
virgin, preached in named towns, executed and rose from the dead and
convince most of the known world that it is true writing these four
books in the
major languages as the Bible in ancient times is found in Aramaic,
Greek, Coptic,Vetus Latin and other languages. It should be easier
this time
arround since the Romans used torture to get at the truth. Let's see if
you can PROVE your fantasy of a hoax. The power of the Roman Empire
couldn't disprove one jot or tittle of the four Gospels. I shall be
waiting for YOUR PROOF. GOD bless!
Pax Christi,
Jim
Show me the bones and I am out of here!
A few years ago the bones of Caiaphas
the high priest were found,
but none
of Jesus since He is risen. He is risen, indeed!
Bibical Archaeology Review, September/October 1992,p 38-44,76
:
Your "challenge" does not make any sense.
Nice dodge!
It's not a "dodge".
I genuinely cannot discern a coherent challenge any where amongst the
verbiage.
Are you able to restate it, as individual steps?
Do I have to write fours fictional books, in Aramaic, Greek, Coptic,
Vetus Latin and other languages?
This will pose a bit of a problem, as I am only part-way through
learning Coptic.
What "other languages"?
This bit of the "challenge" is staggeringly unclear.
What's the bit about Roman torture and truth got to with writing
fiction, apart from Latin prep at grammar school?
Then you somehow jump from the writing of four works of fiction, to
seeing if I can provide "proof" of a fanatasy that I allegedly hold.
How will writing 4 fairy stories, in middles eastern languages achieve
that?
It could not be less clear what your "challenge" is, or consists of.
Just write them in English or any other language.
I might just choose Ugaritic, Cornish, or Japanese.
No, I'll go for the sacred Kaurna Warra, instead.
It is my local language, after all.
(For tens of thousands of years, in fact)
If that is unacceptable to your challenge, then it should be in the
official rules, wherever they are, giving the reasons as to why one's
local language is banned.
The point about torture is that if the body was not
risen, someone would have given up the body.
Is that part of the challenge?
If not, then why mention it?
Is torture required to participate?
If the German Scholarship is true and the four Gospels
were late, the torture would have revealed the authors
and place. The many ancient languages shows the
widwspread spread of the movement. Also, I gave
non Roman Bibles, so those churches weren't following
the church of Rome.
The challenge is an empirical test of the theory that
you could write 4 books claiming them as true and
get away with it. Right now on cable a best selling
book, claiming to be true, is being exposed as a
work of fiction. The Roman Empire was a well run
police state(read Taxitus' Annals of Rome and see
what kind of state it was). The Romans would have quickly
exposed the four Gospels, if they were untrue.
You can prove me wrong by writting the four books
and saying they are true on Oprah! That should
be fun.
Regards,
Jim
So, let me get this straight:
If I were to "write" 4 books, and claim that they were true, an "get
away with it", that would constitute a "win", in terms of your
challenge?
Define "get away with it", please:
For how long?
How many people would have to be convinced?
How many doubters vs believers would it take to define a failure?
Is that ratio per book, or an overall average?
You need to be much clearer on what would constitute "success", and
what would constitute "failure".
You need to be much clearer as to exactly what the "challenge" entails
in the first place.
An excellent pro-forma guide would be:
http://www.randi.org/research/challenge.html
Provided you are willing to attribute any plagiarism, of course.
James Randi is quite approachable on such matters, and given a
sufficiently lucid explanation of our requirements, I am sure that he
would concede you stealing lumps of it.
And, at this stage, I'm willing to entertain the possibility of taking
up your "challenge", if it can be nailed down sufficiently such the
corners can't be curled up by you.
What do I win?
$1million?
Your humble and sincere recantation?
Both?
Pax Atheisti.
Just write the four books. Then go
on the Ophrah show and I am sure
atheists the world over will shower
you with gifts. Atheists are full of
love. Remember Stalin and Mao.
Pax Christi,
Jim
.
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| User: "MaulRat" |
|
| Title: Re: Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist |
27 Jan 2006 06:30:06 PM |
|
|
<snip>
Just write the four books. Then go
on the Ophrah show and I am sure
atheists the world over will shower
you with gifts. Atheists are full of
love. Remember Stalin and Mao.
Ha! As the christians are, eh ... remember the crusades, the spanish
inquisition, Pope John XII, Innocent III, Sixtus IV, Pius X, (to name a
very few), or perhaps the entire ku klux klan is more to your liking?
Its easy to hurl generalized moral stones but just watch out for those
falling rocks.
--
MaulRat
Logical scum #1655
Organized religion: The world's largest pyramid scheme.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist |
28 Jan 2006 04:39:18 PM |
|
|
Ha! As the christians are, eh ... remember the crusades, the spanish
inquisition, Pope John XII, Innocent III, Sixtus IV, Pius X, (to name a
very few), or perhaps the entire ku klux klan is more to your liking?
I was born and raised in Rhode Island
that was founded with religious liberty
for all. Have you read the "Bloudy Tenet"
by Roger Williams that gives the Scriptural
reasons for religious liberty?
Jim
.
|
|
|
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist |
28 Jan 2006 12:44:39 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 00:30:06 GMT, MaulRat
<maulrat@speakeasy.net.fuckspam> wrote in alt.atheism
<snip>
Just write the four books. Then go
on the Ophrah show and I am sure
atheists the world over will shower
you with gifts. Atheists are full of
love. Remember Stalin and Mao.
Ha! As the christians are, eh ... remember the crusades, the spanish
inquisition, Pope John XII, Innocent III, Sixtus IV, Pius X, (to name a
very few), or perhaps the entire ku klux klan is more to your liking?
Its easy to hurl generalized moral stones but just watch out for those
falling rocks.
Too late. It was pulverized by a metaphorical avalance of Himalayan
proportion.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist |
27 Jan 2006 08:26:07 PM |
|
|
On 27 Jan 2006 06:45:21 -0800, wrote:
- Refer: <1138373121.757258.42270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Michael Gray wrote:
On 26 Jan 2006 20:02:32 -0800, wrote:
- Refer: <1138334552.811597.105000@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Michael Gray wrote:
On 26 Jan 2006 13:12:35 -0800, wrote:
- Refer: <1138309955.303895.239850@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Michael Gray wrote:
On 25 Jan 2006 08:02:51 -0800, wrote:
- Refer: <1138204971.122435.95200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
:
I give this little chalenge on the internet when I get bored.
It's fun watching unbelievers tryiing to respond to it.
Let's write four books telling about an imaginary person giving
actual
towns where you claim these events occured, claiming he was born of a
virgin, preached in named towns, executed and rose from the dead and
convince most of the known world that it is true writing these four
books in the
major languages as the Bible in ancient times is found in Aramaic,
Greek, Coptic,Vetus Latin and other languages. It should be easier
this time
arround since the Romans used torture to get at the truth. Let's see if
you can PROVE your fantasy of a hoax. The power of the Roman Empire
couldn't disprove one jot or tittle of the four Gospels. I shall be
waiting for YOUR PROOF. GOD bless!
Pax Christi,
Jim
Show me the bones and I am out of here!
A few years ago the bones of Caiaphas
the high priest were found,
but none
of Jesus since He is risen. He is risen, indeed!
Bibical Archaeology Review, September/October 1992,p 38-44,76
:
Your "challenge" does not make any sense.
Nice dodge!
It's not a "dodge".
I genuinely cannot discern a coherent challenge any where amongst the
verbiage.
Are you able to restate it, as individual steps?
Do I have to write fours fictional books, in Aramaic, Greek, Coptic,
Vetus Latin and other languages?
This will pose a bit of a problem, as I am only part-way through
learning Coptic.
What "other languages"?
This bit of the "challenge" is staggeringly unclear.
What's the bit about Roman torture and truth got to with writing
fiction, apart from Latin prep at grammar school?
Then you somehow jump from the writing of four works of fiction, to
seeing if I can provide "proof" of a fanatasy that I allegedly hold.
How will writing 4 fairy stories, in middles eastern languages achieve
that?
It could not be less clear what your "challenge" is, or consists of.
Just write them in English or any other language.
I might just choose Ugaritic, Cornish, or Japanese.
No, I'll go for the sacred Kaurna Warra, instead.
It is my local language, after all.
(For tens of thousands of years, in fact)
If that is unacceptable to your challenge, then it should be in the
official rules, wherever they are, giving the reasons as to why one's
local language is banned.
The point about torture is that if the body was not
risen, someone would have given up the body.
Is that part of the challenge?
If not, then why mention it?
Is torture required to participate?
If the German Scholarship is true and the four Gospels
were late, the torture would have revealed the authors
and place. The many ancient languages shows the
widwspread spread of the movement. Also, I gave
non Roman Bibles, so those churches weren't following
the church of Rome.
The challenge is an empirical test of the theory that
you could write 4 books claiming them as true and
get away with it. Right now on cable a best selling
book, claiming to be true, is being exposed as a
work of fiction. The Roman Empire was a well run
police state(read Taxitus' Annals of Rome and see
what kind of state it was). The Romans would have quickly
exposed the four Gospels, if they were untrue.
You can prove me wrong by writting the four books
and saying they are true on Oprah! That should
be fun.
Regards,
Jim
So, let me get this straight:
If I were to "write" 4 books, and claim that they were true, an "get
away with it", that would constitute a "win", in terms of your
challenge?
Define "get away with it", please:
For how long?
How many people would have to be convinced?
How many doubters vs believers would it take to define a failure?
Is that ratio per book, or an overall average?
You need to be much clearer on what would constitute "success", and
what would constitute "failure".
You need to be much clearer as to exactly what the "challenge" entails
in the first place.
An excellent pro-forma guide would be:
http://www.randi.org/research/challenge.html
Provided you are willing to attribute any plagiarism, of course.
James Randi is quite approachable on such matters, and given a
sufficiently lucid explanation of our requirements, I am sure that he
would concede you stealing lumps of it.
And, at this stage, I'm willing to entertain the possibility of taking
up your "challenge", if it can be nailed down sufficiently such the
corners can't be curled up by you.
What do I win?
$1million?
Your humble and sincere recantation?
Both?
Pax Atheisti.
Just write the four books. Then go
on the Ophrah show and I am sure
atheists the world over will shower
you with gifts. Atheists are full of
love. Remember Stalin and Mao.
Pax Christi,
Jim
So, that's your "challenge" now, is it?
Why are you completely unable to coherently state what it is?
I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that you don't know what you
mean by your challenge, and will avoid defining it so that you can
keep cheering yourself for no-one having taken it.
I'll give you one more attempt, before calling out the men in
white-coats with the big butterfly net, to put you back in the ward,
whence you escaped.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Priest Must Prove In Court Jesus Christ Did Exist |
28 Jan 2006 04:35:59 PM |
|
|
Michael Gray wrote:
On 27 Jan 2006 06:45:21 -0800, wrote:
- Refer: <1138373121.757258.42270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>
Michael Gray wrote:
On 26 Jan 2006 20:02:32 -0800, wrote:
- Refer: <1138334552.811597.105000@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Michael Gray wrote:
On 26 Jan 2006 13:12:35 -0800, wrote:
- Refer: <1138309955.303895.239850@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Michael Gray wrote:
On 25 Jan 2006 08:02:51 -0800, wrote:
- Refer: <1138204971.122435.95200@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
:
I give this little chalenge on the internet when I get bored.
It's fun watching unbelievers tryiing to respond to it.
Let's write four books telling about an imaginary person giving
actual
towns where you claim these events occured, claiming he was born of a
virgin, preached in named towns, executed and rose from the dead and
convince most of the known world that it is true writing these four
books in the
major languages as the Bible in ancient times is found in Aramaic,
Greek, Coptic,Vetus Latin and other languages. It should be easier
this time
arround since the Romans used torture to get at the truth. Let's see if
you can PROVE your fantasy of a hoax. The power of the Roman Empire
couldn't disprove one jot or tittle of the four Gospels. I shall be
waiting for YOUR PROOF. GOD bless!
Pax Christi,
Jim
Show me the bones and I am out of here!
A few years ago the bones of Caiaphas
the high priest were found,
but none
of Jesus since He is risen. He is risen, indeed!
Bibical Archaeology Review, September/October 1992,p 38-44,76
:
Your "challenge" does not make any sense.
Nice dodge!
It's not a "dodge".
I genuinely cannot discern a coherent challenge any where amongst the
verbiage.
Are you able to restate it, as individual steps?
Do I have to write fours fictional books, in Aramaic, Greek, Coptic,
Vetus Latin and other languages?
This will pose a bit of a problem, as I am only part-way through
learning Coptic.
What "other languages"?
This bit of the "challenge" is staggeringly unclear.
What's the bit about Roman torture and truth got to with wri | | | | | | | | | |
