Prime Evidence of Macroevolution for Pastor Dave - Example 547



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Budikka666"
Date: 13 Oct 2005 07:06:40 PM
Object: Prime Evidence of Macroevolution for Pastor Dave - Example 547
This one is based on testimony (under oath to god himself by a
practicing Christian) being given in a current court case, but I can't
give a reference to it because Pastor Dave throws a hissy-fit if you
actually support your assertions (he cannot support his own, you see).
I'll reveal the source a while from now.
Human hemaglobin has two "families" - alpha and beta. The alpha group
consists of 7 genes in chromosome 11. The beta group consists of six
genes in chromosome 16. These families themselves are sound evidence
of evolution at the genetic level, but it goes much deeper than that.
Of the seven genes of the alpha group, *four* are pseudogenes. Of the
six in the beta group, one is a pseudogene. It's called the psi-beta 1
sequence.
A pseudogene is a duplicate of another gene, but it has errors in it
which prevent it from functioning. Psi-beta 1 has *six* errors. One
of these prevents the gene from even starting to be translated into a
protein. Others would immediately cancel such translation even if it
were to start.
In other words, it's junk DNA, but it is of value from the point of
view of evolution because it means it is available for mutation to
transform it into some other sort of gene (thereby increasing the
information in the genome) without interfering with vital functions in
the organism.
Now if there is macroevolution, if humans and some other organism did
have a common ancestor, you would expect to find similar hemaglobin
patterns in their genome.
Do evolutionists claim that humans recently descended from cats, dogs,
or horses? Nope. Do those "kinds" share the hemaglobin pattern?
Nope!
The understanding scientists have from all available lines of evidence
is that humans share a common ancestor with chimpanzees. Do
chimpanzees have a similar pattern of hemaglobin? Yes!
Can't creationists claim that a designer would have made two similar
organisms out of the same building blocks? Well, no. First of all
they offer no rationale as to why this ought to be so and secondly,
they offer no evidence that it actually was so (yes, these are the same
hypocrites who chide scientists for having no evidence - which is
actually a lie).
But having no scientific support has never stopped creationists from
pontificating about evolution, so this is precisely what they do claim!
Humans and chimpanzees are 98.5% alike in their functional DNA,
creationists insist, because they were designed! I've never seen a
chimpnazze doing brain surgery or designing Mars rovers, and while they
never submit scientific abstracts to peer-reviewed journals, they do
*paint* pretty decent abstracts, so let's pursue this creationist
"logic" a little further.
So we have functional DNA that's 98.6% like chimpanzee DNA even though
there is no logical reason why a god would need to do this when
supernaturally creating different "kinds" by means we humans cannot
pretend to understand.
But this is a perfect god, who doesn't make mistakes, who had infinite
resources to call upon and all eternity in which to plan his work, work
which was unconditionally declared perfect upon completion. And this
god never lies, right?.
Right.
Now let's talk again about the beta-globin group. There are six genes
in humans and six in chimpanzees. They are the same genes. One of
them in humans is a non-functional pseudogene called psi-beta 1. The
same one in chimpanzees in a non-functional pseudogene.
Human psi-beta 1 has six errors on it. The chimpanzee version **HAS
THE SAME SIX ERRORS**.
There's your "proof" Pastor Dave.
Care to discuss it? Care to toss around how it was that this god made
the same useless gene with the same six errors not once, but twice in
two different "kinds"? Or can we instead talk about you keeping the
promise you made when we supplied you with this?
Or you can run away from this example like you have the other 546
references, even though it meets **EVERY SINGLE IDIOTIC CRITERION YOU
HAVE SPECIFIED, RIGHT DOWN TO ME OFFERING NOT A SHRED IN THE WAY OF
REFERENCES**.
Budikka
.

User: "Libertarius"

Title: Re: Prime Evidence of Macroevolution for Pastor Dave - Example 547 13 Oct 2005 09:00:58 PM
Budikka666 wrote:

This one is based on testimony (under oath to god himself by a
practicing Christian) being given in a current court case, but I can't
give a reference to it because Pastor Dave throws a hissy-fit if you
actually support your assertions (he cannot support his own, you see).
I'll reveal the source a while from now.

Human hemaglobin has two "families" - alpha and beta. The alpha group
consists of 7 genes in chromosome 11. The beta group consists of six
genes in chromosome 16. These families themselves are sound evidence
of evolution at the genetic level, but it goes much deeper than that.

Of the seven genes of the alpha group, *four* are pseudogenes. Of the
six in the beta group, one is a pseudogene. It's called the psi-beta 1
sequence.

A pseudogene is a duplicate of another gene, but it has errors in it
which prevent it from functioning. Psi-beta 1 has *six* errors. One
of these prevents the gene from even starting to be translated into a
protein. Others would immediately cancel such translation even if it
were to start.

In other words, it's junk DNA, but it is of value from the point of
view of evolution because it means it is available for mutation to
transform it into some other sort of gene (thereby increasing the
information in the genome) without interfering with vital functions in
the organism.

Now if there is macroevolution, if humans and some other organism did
have a common ancestor, you would expect to find similar hemaglobin
patterns in their genome.

Do evolutionists claim that humans recently descended from cats, dogs,
or horses? Nope. Do those "kinds" share the hemaglobin pattern?
Nope!

The understanding scientists have from all available lines of evidence
is that humans share a common ancestor with chimpanzees. Do
chimpanzees have a similar pattern of hemaglobin? Yes!

Can't creationists claim that a designer would have made two similar
organisms out of the same building blocks? Well, no. First of all
they offer no rationale as to why this ought to be so and secondly,
they offer no evidence that it actually was so (yes, these are the same
hypocrites who chide scientists for having no evidence - which is
actually a lie).

But having no scientific support has never stopped creationists from
pontificating about evolution, so this is precisely what they do claim!

Humans and chimpanzees are 98.5% alike in their functional DNA,
creationists insist, because they were designed! I've never seen a
chimpnazze doing brain surgery or designing Mars rovers, and while they
never submit scientific abstracts to peer-reviewed journals, they do
*paint* pretty decent abstracts, so let's pursue this creationist
"logic" a little further.

So we have functional DNA that's 98.6% like chimpanzee DNA even though
there is no logical reason why a god would need to do this when
supernaturally creating different "kinds" by means we humans cannot
pretend to understand.

But this is a perfect god, who doesn't make mistakes, who had infinite
resources to call upon and all eternity in which to plan his work, work
which was unconditionally declared perfect upon completion. And this
god never lies, right?.

Right.

Now let's talk again about the beta-globin group. There are six genes
in humans and six in chimpanzees. They are the same genes. One of
them in humans is a non-functional pseudogene called psi-beta 1. The
same one in chimpanzees in a non-functional pseudogene.

Human psi-beta 1 has six errors on it. The chimpanzee version **HAS
THE SAME SIX ERRORS**.

There's your "proof" Pastor Dave.

Care to discuss it? Care to toss around how it was that this god made
the same useless gene with the same six errors not once, but twice in
two different "kinds"? Or can we instead talk about you keeping the
promise you made when we supplied you with this?

Or you can run away from this example like you have the other 546
references, even though it meets **EVERY SINGLE IDIOTIC CRITERION YOU
HAVE SPECIFIED, RIGHT DOWN TO ME OFFERING NOT A SHRED IN THE WAY OF
REFERENCES**.

Budikka

===>You have certainly presented some of the most irrefutable
evidence, my friend.
CONGRATULATIONS.
As for creationist dummies like the fake "pastor", they will go
on arguing against scientific truth because it challenges their
misplaced and mistaken belief systems.
For them it is easier to live with the comfortable certainty
of belief than the probabilities of science. -- L.
.

User: "Budikka666"

Title: Re: Prime Evidence of Macroevolution for Pastor Dave - Example 547 15 Oct 2005 06:53:29 AM
Since Pastor Dave has once again proven himself to be a coward even
where actual science is directly discussed in the message and not even
one reference is given, I think this more than proves what a fraudulent
challenge this Christian made, and what a liar, coward, and hypocrite
he is.
I said I would post a reference later, and here it is:
http://aclupa.org/downloads/Day1AMSession.pdf
(note that this is in printer definition format, so you will need
acrobat reader installed to access it. Alternatly you can go to
http://www.aclupa.org/ and find it there.
Kenneth Miller is a professor of biology at Brown University and
co-author (with Joseph Levine) of a textbook, "Biology: Discovering
Life"
Here's a link to a refutation of some criciticism of Ken Miller's
testimony:
http://tinyurl.com/7br98
Budikka
.


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