| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
28 Jan 2007 01:51:44 AM |
| Object: |
Programmed to Worship |
I've recently become interested in ancient history. It appears that
man has always created something to worship. It has been pagan gods,
man gods, woman gods, wind gods, sun gods, rain gods, war gods, love
gods, crop gods, you name it; we've always had something. Are we
programmed through creation, intelligent creation, evolution, or some
other theory of the day, to worship something, anything? Is there
some electron in our brains that is activated when we perceive
hopelessness, a click that sets in motion the desire to worship?
There are those who turn to their perceived God, when they are
confronted with a situation over which they (or any others) have no
control.
Doctor: Mr. Jones, you have a terminal illness. There is nothing the
medical community can do for you.
Mr. Jones: Okay then, I'll just pray to my God. I have hope!
Doctor: Mr. Atheist, you have a terminal illness. There is nothing
the medical community can do for you.
Mr. Atheist: How much time do I have? Is this the first case on
record? Will the illness be named after me? Have you consulted with
others? Have you investigated the possibility of ongoing research for
this illness? I'm certain that through environment, heredity, or pure
accident, I have fallen victim to this illness. Perhaps through
research, a cure will be discovered before my demise. I have hope!
On the bright side, I guess I won't need to make a mortgage or car
payment.
Do atheists have the strength to embrace logic and intellect when
threatened by superstition? Are atheists programmed with the same
urge to worship, but consciously commit their intellect to do battle
with the forces of superstition? Perhaps the atheists are void of
this urge that has infected most of humankind.
This is not a condemnation of any belief. I am truly interested in
knowing if atheists have this "urge" to worship, and fight it off, or
never get it at all?
Thank you for your patience.
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Programmed to Worship |
28 Jan 2007 06:10:09 AM |
|
|
<rjstorm@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1169970704.788863.72610@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I've recently become interested in ancient history. It appears that
man has always created something to worship. It has been pagan gods,
man gods, woman gods, wind gods, sun gods, rain gods, war gods, love
gods, crop gods, you name it; we've always had something. Are we
programmed through creation, intelligent creation, evolution, or some
other theory of the day, to worship something, anything? Is there
some electron in our brains that is activated when we perceive
hopelessness, a click that sets in motion the desire to worship?
There are those who turn to their perceived God, when they are
confronted with a situation over which they (or any others) have no
control.
Doctor: Mr. Jones, you have a terminal illness. There is nothing the
medical community can do for you.
Mr. Jones: Okay then, I'll just pray to my God. I have hope!
Doctor: Mr. Atheist, you have a terminal illness. There is nothing
the medical community can do for you.
Mr. Atheist: How much time do I have? Is this the first case on
record? Will the illness be named after me? Have you consulted with
others? Have you investigated the possibility of ongoing research for
this illness? I'm certain that through environment, heredity, or pure
accident, I have fallen victim to this illness. Perhaps through
research, a cure will be discovered before my demise. I have hope!
On the bright side, I guess I won't need to make a mortgage or car
payment.
Do atheists have the strength to embrace logic and intellect when
threatened by superstition?
I can't speak for all atheists, but I know that I do.
Are atheists programmed with the same
urge to worship,
Not me.
but consciously commit their intellect to do battle
with the forces of superstition? Perhaps the atheists are void of
this urge that has infected most of humankind.
Whatever.
This is not a condemnation of any belief. I am truly interested in
knowing if atheists have this "urge" to worship, and fight it off, or
never get it at all?
Don't get it. Have wondered about it, even tried it. Not for me. I'm not
into playacting.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Programmed to Worship |
28 Jan 2007 06:49:50 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 07:10:09 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
- Refer: <523i59F1mgb8iU1@mid.individual.net>
<rjstorm@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1169970704.788863.72610@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I've recently become interested in ancient history. It appears that
man has always created something to worship. It has been pagan gods,
man gods, woman gods, wind gods, sun gods, rain gods, war gods, love
gods, crop gods, you name it; we've always had something. Are we
programmed through creation, intelligent creation, evolution, or some
other theory of the day, to worship something, anything? Is there
some electron in our brains that is activated when we perceive
hopelessness, a click that sets in motion the desire to worship?
There are those who turn to their perceived God, when they are
confronted with a situation over which they (or any others) have no
control.
Doctor: Mr. Jones, you have a terminal illness. There is nothing the
medical community can do for you.
Mr. Jones: Okay then, I'll just pray to my God. I have hope!
Doctor: Mr. Atheist, you have a terminal illness. There is nothing
the medical community can do for you.
Mr. Atheist: How much time do I have? Is this the first case on
record? Will the illness be named after me? Have you consulted with
others? Have you investigated the possibility of ongoing research for
this illness? I'm certain that through environment, heredity, or pure
accident, I have fallen victim to this illness. Perhaps through
research, a cure will be discovered before my demise. I have hope!
On the bright side, I guess I won't need to make a mortgage or car
payment.
Do atheists have the strength to embrace logic and intellect when
threatened by superstition?
I can't speak for all atheists, but I know that I do.
Are atheists programmed with the same
urge to worship,
Not me.
but consciously commit their intellect to do battle
with the forces of superstition? Perhaps the atheists are void of
this urge that has infected most of humankind.
Whatever.
This is not a condemnation of any belief. I am truly interested in
knowing if atheists have this "urge" to worship, and fight it off, or
never get it at all?
Don't get it. Have wondered about it, even tried it. Not for me. I'm not
into playacting.
Oh yeah?
Then what's that Nun's Habit for, eh?
Yeah, the one in the right hand side of the closet.
Just a bad habit, no?
--
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Programmed to Worship |
29 Jan 2007 03:20:32 PM |
|
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"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:us6pr2drbfjtel1kab8of9p4hcrjptiaf1@4ax.com...
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 07:10:09 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
snip
Don't get it. Have wondered about it, even tried it. Not for me. I'm
not
into playacting.
Oh yeah?
Then what's that Nun's Habit for, eh?
Yeah, the one in the right hand side of the closet.
What's really spooky, is that's exactly where it is ;)
Just a bad habit, no?
Apparently. No one ever wants to borrow it for Halloween ;)
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Programmed to Worship |
29 Jan 2007 06:29:14 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:20:32 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
- Refer: <5276f9F1nj7unU1@mid.individual.net>
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:us6pr2drbfjtel1kab8of9p4hcrjptiaf1@4ax.com...
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 07:10:09 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
snip
Don't get it. Have wondered about it, even tried it. Not for me. I'm
not
into playacting.
Oh yeah?
Then what's that Nun's Habit for, eh?
Yeah, the one in the right hand side of the closet.
What's really spooky, is that's exactly where it is ;)
The EAC has eyes everywhere!
(Sylvia Browne, eat your heart out.
Or let a rabid dog do it for you)
Just a bad habit, no?
Apparently. No one ever wants to borrow it for Halloween ;)
Oooh, oooh!
I want to borrow it, not for halloween, but for Easter!
A Nun with a beard walking into a cathedral. Should be good for a
laugh!
--
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Programmed to Worship |
30 Jan 2007 08:27:58 AM |
|
|
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:q64tr2hqj9a943m1ql8p4jojd2bv84rm45@4ax.com...
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:20:32 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
- Refer: <5276f9F1nj7unU1@mid.individual.net>
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:us6pr2drbfjtel1kab8of9p4hcrjptiaf1@4ax.com...
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 07:10:09 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
snip
Don't get it. Have wondered about it, even tried it. Not for me. I'm
not
into playacting.
Oh yeah?
Then what's that Nun's Habit for, eh?
Yeah, the one in the right hand side of the closet.
What's really spooky, is that's exactly where it is ;)
The EAC has eyes everywhere!
(Sylvia Browne, eat your heart out.
Or let a rabid dog do it for you)
Just a bad habit, no?
Apparently. No one ever wants to borrow it for Halloween ;)
Oooh, oooh!
I want to borrow it, not for halloween, but for Easter!
A Nun with a beard walking into a cathedral. Should be good for a
laugh!
LOL! Hey, it's yours. Hope your health insurance is paid up though ;)
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Programmed to Worship |
30 Jan 2007 05:27:18 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 09:27:58 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
- Refer: <5292lmF1mt15pU1@mid.individual.net>
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:q64tr2hqj9a943m1ql8p4jojd2bv84rm45@4ax.com...
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:20:32 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
- Refer: <5276f9F1nj7unU1@mid.individual.net>
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:us6pr2drbfjtel1kab8of9p4hcrjptiaf1@4ax.com...
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 07:10:09 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
snip
Don't get it. Have wondered about it, even tried it. Not for me. I'm
not
into playacting.
Oh yeah?
Then what's that Nun's Habit for, eh?
Yeah, the one in the right hand side of the closet.
What's really spooky, is that's exactly where it is ;)
The EAC has eyes everywhere!
(Sylvia Browne, eat your heart out.
Or let a rabid dog do it for you)
Just a bad habit, no?
Apparently. No one ever wants to borrow it for Halloween ;)
Oooh, oooh!
I want to borrow it, not for halloween, but for Easter!
A Nun with a beard walking into a cathedral. Should be good for a
laugh!
LOL! Hey, it's yours. Hope your health insurance is paid up though ;)
What are they gonna do?
I mean, it's not as if they worship instruments of torture and
execution now, is it?
.... Hang on a mo, they have a full size version of an horrific
execution device right up front on centre stage, complete with a dummy
being done over...
Oooh and lookie! Most of the females are toting a miniature death
machine around their necks!
I'm getting a bad feeling about the plan now.
--
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Programmed to Worship |
31 Jan 2007 02:35:44 PM |
|
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"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:erkvr2pgb7kl77fhtg0rid2kbkv23ch7h7@4ax.com...
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 09:27:58 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
- Refer: <5292lmF1mt15pU1@mid.individual.net>
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:q64tr2hqj9a943m1ql8p4jojd2bv84rm45@4ax.com...
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:20:32 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
- Refer: <5276f9F1nj7unU1@mid.individual.net>
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:us6pr2drbfjtel1kab8of9p4hcrjptiaf1@4ax.com...
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 07:10:09 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
snip
Don't get it. Have wondered about it, even tried it. Not for me.
I'm
not
into playacting.
Oh yeah?
Then what's that Nun's Habit for, eh?
Yeah, the one in the right hand side of the closet.
What's really spooky, is that's exactly where it is ;)
The EAC has eyes everywhere!
(Sylvia Browne, eat your heart out.
Or let a rabid dog do it for you)
Just a bad habit, no?
Apparently. No one ever wants to borrow it for Halloween ;)
Oooh, oooh!
I want to borrow it, not for halloween, but for Easter!
A Nun with a beard walking into a cathedral. Should be good for a
laugh!
LOL! Hey, it's yours. Hope your health insurance is paid up though ;)
What are they gonna do?
I mean, it's not as if they worship instruments of torture and
execution now, is it?
... Hang on a mo, they have a full size version of an horrific
execution device right up front on centre stage, complete with a dummy
being done over...
Oooh and lookie! Most of the females are toting a miniature death
machine around their necks!
LOL - Yeah, most of my husband's sisters do, the fucking hypocrites ;)
I'm getting a bad feeling about the plan now.
I am not surprised ;)
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
|
| Title: Re: Programmed to Worship |
31 Jan 2007 05:27:11 PM |
|
|
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 15:35:44 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
- Refer: <52ccj7F1nu2giU1@mid.individual.net>
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:erkvr2pgb7kl77fhtg0rid2kbkv23ch7h7@4ax.com...
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 09:27:58 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
- Refer: <5292lmF1mt15pU1@mid.individual.net>
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:q64tr2hqj9a943m1ql8p4jojd2bv84rm45@4ax.com...
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:20:32 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
- Refer: <5276f9F1nj7unU1@mid.individual.net>
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:us6pr2drbfjtel1kab8of9p4hcrjptiaf1@4ax.com...
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 07:10:09 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
snip
Don't get it. Have wondered about it, even tried it. Not for me.
I'm
not
into playacting.
Oh yeah?
Then what's that Nun's Habit for, eh?
Yeah, the one in the right hand side of the closet.
What's really spooky, is that's exactly where it is ;)
The EAC has eyes everywhere!
(Sylvia Browne, eat your heart out.
Or let a rabid dog do it for you)
Just a bad habit, no?
Apparently. No one ever wants to borrow it for Halloween ;)
Oooh, oooh!
I want to borrow it, not for halloween, but for Easter!
A Nun with a beard walking into a cathedral. Should be good for a
laugh!
LOL! Hey, it's yours. Hope your health insurance is paid up though ;)
What are they gonna do?
I mean, it's not as if they worship instruments of torture and
execution now, is it?
... Hang on a mo, they have a full size version of an horrific
execution device right up front on centre stage, complete with a dummy
being done over...
Oooh and lookie! Most of the females are toting a miniature death
machine around their necks!
LOL - Yeah, most of my husband's sisters do, the fucking hypocrites ;)
Well, it would not be hypocrisy if they were committed vicious
murderous tyrants in training.
I'm getting a bad feeling about the plan now.
I am not surprised ;)
--
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Programmed to Worship |
01 Feb 2007 01:23:42 PM |
|
|
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:3c92s29formnvvkmq3opiqi1kjloq419qo@4ax.com...
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 15:35:44 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
- Refer: <52ccj7F1nu2giU1@mid.individual.net>
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:erkvr2pgb7kl77fhtg0rid2kbkv23ch7h7@4ax.com...
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 09:27:58 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
- Refer: <5292lmF1mt15pU1@mid.individual.net>
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:q64tr2hqj9a943m1ql8p4jojd2bv84rm45@4ax.com...
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:20:32 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
- Refer: <5276f9F1nj7unU1@mid.individual.net>
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:us6pr2drbfjtel1kab8of9p4hcrjptiaf1@4ax.com...
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 07:10:09 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
snip
Don't get it. Have wondered about it, even tried it. Not for me.
I'm
not
into playacting.
Oh yeah?
Then what's that Nun's Habit for, eh?
Yeah, the one in the right hand side of the closet.
What's really spooky, is that's exactly where it is ;)
The EAC has eyes everywhere!
(Sylvia Browne, eat your heart out.
Or let a rabid dog do it for you)
Just a bad habit, no?
Apparently. No one ever wants to borrow it for Halloween ;)
Oooh, oooh!
I want to borrow it, not for halloween, but for Easter!
A Nun with a beard walking into a cathedral. Should be good for a
laugh!
LOL! Hey, it's yours. Hope your health insurance is paid up though ;)
What are they gonna do?
I mean, it's not as if they worship instruments of torture and
execution now, is it?
... Hang on a mo, they have a full size version of an horrific
execution device right up front on centre stage, complete with a dummy
being done over...
Oooh and lookie! Most of the females are toting a miniature death
machine around their necks!
LOL - Yeah, most of my husband's sisters do, the fucking hypocrites ;)
Well, it would not be hypocrisy if they were committed vicious
murderous tyrants in training.
And I gave the Warlord the email addresses of two of them. Let the games
begin! <snicker> ;)
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
.
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Programmed to Worship |
28 Jan 2007 06:22:34 PM |
|
|
<rjstorm@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1169970704.788863.72610@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I've recently become interested in ancient history. It appears that
man has always created something to worship. It has been pagan gods,
man gods, woman gods, wind gods, sun gods, rain gods, war gods, love
gods, crop gods, you name it; we've always had something. Are we
programmed through creation, intelligent creation, evolution, or some
other theory of the day, to worship something, anything? Is there
some electron in our brains that is activated when we perceive
hopelessness, a click that sets in motion the desire to worship?
There are those who turn to their perceived God, when they are
confronted with a situation over which they (or any others) have no
control.
Doctor: Mr. Jones, you have a terminal illness. There is nothing the
medical community can do for you.
Mr. Jones: Okay then, I'll just pray to my God. I have hope!
Doctor: Mr. Atheist, you have a terminal illness. There is nothing
the medical community can do for you.
Mr. Atheist: How much time do I have? Is this the first case on
record? Will the illness be named after me? Have you consulted with
others? Have you investigated the possibility of ongoing research for
this illness? I'm certain that through environment, heredity, or pure
accident, I have fallen victim to this illness. Perhaps through
research, a cure will be discovered before my demise. I have hope!
On the bright side, I guess I won't need to make a mortgage or car
payment.
Do atheists have the strength to embrace logic and intellect when
threatened by superstition? Are atheists programmed with the same
urge to worship, but consciously commit their intellect to do battle
with the forces of superstition? Perhaps the atheists are void of
this urge that has infected most of humankind.
This is not a condemnation of any belief. I am truly interested in
knowing if atheists have this "urge" to worship, and fight it off, or
never get it at all?
Oh, the temptation to surrender the responsibility for your actions to a god
is certainly powerful, as is the allure of complete certainty.
Surrendering to such desires and temptations is easy, and dangerous.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
http://www.ashenempires.com
.
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| User: "Luna" |
|
| Title: Re: Programmed to Worship |
28 Jan 2007 07:48:47 AM |
|
|
In article <1169970704.788863.72610@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
wrote:
I've recently become interested in ancient history. It appears that
man has always created something to worship. It has been pagan gods,
man gods, woman gods, wind gods, sun gods, rain gods, war gods, love
gods, crop gods, you name it; we've always had something. Are we
programmed through creation, intelligent creation, evolution, or some
other theory of the day, to worship something, anything? Is there
some electron in our brains that is activated when we perceive
hopelessness, a click that sets in motion the desire to worship?
There are those who turn to their perceived God, when they are
confronted with a situation over which they (or any others) have no
control.
Doctor: Mr. Jones, you have a terminal illness. There is nothing the
medical community can do for you.
Mr. Jones: Okay then, I'll just pray to my God. I have hope!
Doctor: Mr. Atheist, you have a terminal illness. There is nothing
the medical community can do for you.
Mr. Atheist: How much time do I have? Is this the first case on
record? Will the illness be named after me? Have you consulted with
others? Have you investigated the possibility of ongoing research for
this illness? I'm certain that through environment, heredity, or pure
accident, I have fallen victim to this illness. Perhaps through
research, a cure will be discovered before my demise. I have hope!
On the bright side, I guess I won't need to make a mortgage or car
payment.
Do atheists have the strength to embrace logic and intellect when
threatened by superstition? Are atheists programmed with the same
urge to worship, but consciously commit their intellect to do battle
with the forces of superstition? Perhaps the atheists are void of
this urge that has infected most of humankind.
This is not a condemnation of any belief. I am truly interested in
knowing if atheists have this "urge" to worship, and fight it off, or
never get it at all?
Thank you for your patience.
All I can tell you is my own experience.
I have felt, at different times throughout my life, the urge to worship.
Or, more precisely, the feeling that there is a part of me that is
beyond the physical, which is connected to some non-physical part of the
universe, a giant universal spirit sort of thing, which is eternal. I
think most people feel this or something similar to this at some point
in their lives, and the label they put on it depends upon the culture in
which they live.
When I was a child, I labeled that feeling "God." When I was a teenager
and agnostic, I labeled it "Something important, I don't know what." As
an adult and an atheist, I label it "Being human." I have come to
realize it is just a feeling like any other, and does not objectively
indicate something divine about the Universe. Just like when I am happy
it doesn't mean the Universe is a happy place, etc. It's all in my own
head.
Why it is there, what evolutionary advantage it has for the human
species, I don't know. Perhaps it is just a side-effect of creativity
combined with intellect, perhaps it is part of the urge to be part of a
society. Most likely I think it is part of the survival urge. We are
intellectually advanced enough to recognize that death comes to us all,
and our survival urge makes us want to live, so our imaginations create
a way in which we can live forever. We want so badly for it to be true
that we can convince ourselves it is.
.
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| User: "Kate " |
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| Title: Re: Programmed to Worship |
28 Jan 2007 09:24:03 AM |
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On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 13:48:47 GMT, Luna
<lunachick@NOSPAMmindspring.com> wrote:
In article <1169970704.788863.72610@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
rjstorm@yahoo.com wrote:
I've recently become interested in ancient history. It appears that
man has always created something to worship. It has been pagan gods,
man gods, woman gods, wind gods, sun gods, rain gods, war gods, love
gods, crop gods, you name it; we've always had something. Are we
programmed through creation, intelligent creation, evolution, or some
other theory of the day, to worship something, anything? Is there
some electron in our brains that is activated when we perceive
hopelessness, a click that sets in motion the desire to worship?
There are those who turn to their perceived God, when they are
confronted with a situation over which they (or any others) have no
control.
Doctor: Mr. Jones, you have a terminal illness. There is nothing the
medical community can do for you.
Mr. Jones: Okay then, I'll just pray to my God. I have hope!
Doctor: Mr. Atheist, you have a terminal illness. There is nothing
the medical community can do for you.
Mr. Atheist: How much time do I have? Is this the first case on
record? Will the illness be named after me? Have you consulted with
others? Have you investigated the possibility of ongoing research for
this illness? I'm certain that through environment, heredity, or pure
accident, I have fallen victim to this illness. Perhaps through
research, a cure will be discovered before my demise. I have hope!
On the bright side, I guess I won't need to make a mortgage or car
payment.
Do atheists have the strength to embrace logic and intellect when
threatened by superstition? Are atheists programmed with the same
urge to worship, but consciously commit their intellect to do battle
with the forces of superstition? Perhaps the atheists are void of
this urge that has infected most of humankind.
This is not a condemnation of any belief. I am truly interested in
knowing if atheists have this "urge" to worship, and fight it off, or
never get it at all?
Thank you for your patience.
All I can tell you is my own experience.
I have felt, at different times throughout my life, the urge to worship.
Or, more precisely, the feeling that there is a part of me that is
beyond the physical, which is connected to some non-physical part of the
universe, a giant universal spirit sort of thing, which is eternal. I
think most people feel this or something similar to this at some point
in their lives, and the label they put on it depends upon the culture in
which they live.
When I was a child, I labeled that feeling "God." When I was a teenager
and agnostic, I labeled it "Something important, I don't know what." As
an adult and an atheist, I label it "Being human." I have come to
realize it is just a feeling like any other, and does not objectively
indicate something divine about the Universe. Just like when I am happy
it doesn't mean the Universe is a happy place, etc. It's all in my own
head.
Why it is there, what evolutionary advantage it has for the human
species, I don't know. Perhaps it is just a side-effect of creativity
combined with intellect, perhaps it is part of the urge to be part of a
society. Most likely I think it is part of the survival urge. We are
intellectually advanced enough to recognize that death comes to us all,
and our survival urge makes us want to live, so our imaginations create
a way in which we can live forever. We want so badly for it to be true
that we can convince ourselves it is.
I don't have it. I have creativity. I have the urge to be part of a
society as I like sharing with family and friends, although I'm not
much of a partier. But no connection to 'something bigger'.
.
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| User: "Luna" |
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| Title: Re: Programmed to Worship |
28 Jan 2007 10:19:31 AM |
|
|
In article <4614bf20.826483546@news-west.newscene.com>,
(Kate ) wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 13:48:47 GMT, Luna
<lunachick@NOSPAMmindspring.com> wrote:
In article <1169970704.788863.72610@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
rjstorm@yahoo.com wrote:
I've recently become interested in ancient history. It appears that
man has always created something to worship. It has been pagan gods,
man gods, woman gods, wind gods, sun gods, rain gods, war gods, love
gods, crop gods, you name it; we've always had something. Are we
programmed through creation, intelligent creation, evolution, or some
other theory of the day, to worship something, anything? Is there
some electron in our brains that is activated when we perceive
hopelessness, a click that sets in motion the desire to worship?
There are those who turn to their perceived God, when they are
confronted with a situation over which they (or any others) have no
control.
Doctor: Mr. Jones, you have a terminal illness. There is nothing the
medical community can do for you.
Mr. Jones: Okay then, I'll just pray to my God. I have hope!
Doctor: Mr. Atheist, you have a terminal illness. There is nothing
the medical community can do for you.
Mr. Atheist: How much time do I have? Is this the first case on
record? Will the illness be named after me? Have you consulted with
others? Have you investigated the possibility of ongoing research for
this illness? I'm certain that through environment, heredity, or pure
accident, I have fallen victim to this illness. Perhaps through
research, a cure will be discovered before my demise. I have hope!
On the bright side, I guess I won't need to make a mortgage or car
payment.
Do atheists have the strength to embrace logic and intellect when
threatened by superstition? Are atheists programmed with the same
urge to worship, but consciously commit their intellect to do battle
with the forces of superstition? Perhaps the atheists are void of
this urge that has infected most of humankind.
This is not a condemnation of any belief. I am truly interested in
knowing if atheists have this "urge" to worship, and fight it off, or
never get it at all?
Thank you for your patience.
All I can tell you is my own experience.
I have felt, at different times throughout my life, the urge to worship.
Or, more precisely, the feeling that there is a part of me that is
beyond the physical, which is connected to some non-physical part of the
universe, a giant universal spirit sort of thing, which is eternal. I
think most people feel this or something similar to this at some point
in their lives, and the label they put on it depends upon the culture in
which they live.
When I was a child, I labeled that feeling "God." When I was a teenager
and agnostic, I labeled it "Something important, I don't know what." As
an adult and an atheist, I label it "Being human." I have come to
realize it is just a feeling like any other, and does not objectively
indicate something divine about the Universe. Just like when I am happy
it doesn't mean the Universe is a happy place, etc. It's all in my own
head.
Why it is there, what evolutionary advantage it has for the human
species, I don't know. Perhaps it is just a side-effect of creativity
combined with intellect, perhaps it is part of the urge to be part of a
society. Most likely I think it is part of the survival urge. We are
intellectually advanced enough to recognize that death comes to us all,
and our survival urge makes us want to live, so our imaginations create
a way in which we can live forever. We want so badly for it to be true
that we can convince ourselves it is.
I don't have it. I have creativity. I have the urge to be part of a
society as I like sharing with family and friends, although I'm not
much of a partier. But no connection to 'something bigger'.
Eh. Individual people are different. Some feel no urge to procreate,
yet, in general, as a species, we do. Some have a death urge rather
than a survival instinct, but if that were the rule rather than the
exception our species wouldn't have made it this long. I think it's
more common to have these spiritual feelings than not, just based on the
history of human cultures.
.
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| User: "Liz" |
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| Title: Re: Programmed to Worship |
28 Jan 2007 12:19:25 PM |
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On 27 Jan 2007 23:51:44 -0800, in news message
<1169970704.788863.72610@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> wrote:
[---]
This is not a condemnation of any belief. I am truly interested in
knowing if atheists have this "urge" to worship, and fight it off, or
never get it at all?
I don't have any worship urge. When I had surgery last Spring, I
didn't even think about praying.
Überwench #658 Now a *real* atheist!
Dame Liz the Undaunted Ath.D BAAWA
Charter Member of SMASH
and Queen of the known universe
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Programmed to Worship |
28 Jan 2007 04:03:18 AM |
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On 27 Jan 2007 23:51:44 -0800, wrote:
- Refer: <1169970704.788863.72610@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
I've recently become interested in ancient history. It appears that
man has always created something to worship.
Not true, but I shall leave that as another topic.
It has been pagan gods,
man gods, woman gods, wind gods, sun gods, rain gods, war gods, love
gods, crop gods, you name it; we've always had something.
Who are "we"?
Are we
programmed through creation, intelligent creation, evolution, or some
other theory of the day, to worship something, anything?
That's 3 straw men already.
You must be a christian.
Is there
some electron in our brains that is activated when we perceive
There are billions upon billions of electrons in my brain.
(I don't know about yours)
hopelessness, a click that sets in motion the desire to worship?
A single electron cannot do that, you ignoramus!
There are those who turn to their perceived God, when they are
confronted with a situation over which they (or any others) have no
control.
And they are called uneducated, naive, indoctrinated infants.
Doctor: Mr. Jones, you have a terminal illness. There is nothing the
medical community can do for you.
Mr. Jones: Okay then, I'll just pray to my God. I have hope!
Oh, you are referring to ADULTS?!
Then they are referred to as delusional.
Doctor: Mr. Atheist, you have a terminal illness. There is nothing
the medical community can do for you.
Mr. Atheist: How much time do I have? Is this the first case on
record? Will the illness be named after me? Have you consulted with
others? Have you investigated the possibility of ongoing research for
this illness? I'm certain that through environment, heredity, or pure
accident, I have fallen victim to this illness. Perhaps through
research, a cure will be discovered before my demise. I have hope!
On the bright side, I guess I won't need to make a mortgage or car
payment.
Add another two to the stack of straw men.
Do atheists have the strength to embrace logic and intellect when
threatened by superstition?
Most do.
Are atheists programmed with the same
urge to worship, but consciously commit their intellect to do battle
with the forces of superstition?
What fucking "urge to worship", you friggin cretin?
Perhaps the atheists are void of
this urge that has infected most of humankind.
Your original assumption is invalid at many levels.
Try again.
This is not a condemnation of any belief. I am truly interested in
knowing if atheists have this "urge" to worship, and fight it off, or
never get it at all?
So, you are a theist, who assumes that all mankind is suffering from
your hallucinations?
Think again before you put your delusions upon others more rational
than you, if you have a care to.
Thank you for your patience.
I have no patience with destructive pusillanimous theist dickheads.
--
.
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| User: "Luminoso" |
|
| Title: Re: Programmed to Worship |
31 Jan 2007 05:08:45 PM |
|
|
On 27 Jan 2007 23:51:44 -0800, wrote:
I've recently become interested in ancient history. It appears that
man has always created something to worship. It has been pagan gods,
man gods, woman gods, wind gods, sun gods, rain gods, war gods, love
gods, crop gods, you name it; we've always had something. Are we
programmed through creation, intelligent creation, evolution, or some
other theory of the day, to worship something, anything ?
Yea, I think so.
IMHO, it's a minor re-direction of the instinctive
urge to 'worship' the alpha-male, the head of the
primate troupe. As we got smarter, it became possible
to envision an "alpha plus" above and beyond anything
human. So, we behaved for this idealized alpha the
same way primates do for their more corporeal alpha,
right down to the bowing and scraping and begging
and presenting our behinds ...
Supplicating oneself to the alpha male is just fine in
a heirarchical social structure. The structure equates
to a survival advantage so doing things that help
preserve it is (long term) in our best interests. Alas,
when supplicating onself to the abstract "alpha plus",
there's no FEEDBACK. You don't really know what it might
want. So, you make-up stuff. Little wonder so many 'gods'
behave so much like humans - have similar motivations,
emotions, desires and dislikes - RPPs (Real-People
Personalities) - with superpowers. Some theologians
go beyond that, further into abstraction, but the
bulk of the regular Joes see their gods as the biggest
baddest alpha-males imaginible. Mess with it and, well,
kind of like the 'Sopranos' ...
Hmmm ... this perspective may even help explain why
dangerous collective entities like the Mafia seem to
hold such popular appeal. The collective is far more
powerful, more threatening, more intelligent, more
difficult to overcome than an individual - but give
that collective a unitary identity like "mafia" or
"government" or even "aliens" and it becomes LIKE an
"alpha plus" and those same awe-filled feelings and
behaviors coded in our genes pop up again.
.
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| User: "Uncle Clover" |
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| Title: Re: Programmed to Worship |
28 Jan 2007 03:25:30 AM |
|
|
On 27 Jan 2007 23:51:44 -0800, wrote:
I've recently become interested in ancient history. It appears that
man has always created something to worship. It has been pagan gods,
man gods, woman gods, wind gods, sun gods, rain gods, war gods, love
gods, crop gods, you name it; we've always had something. Are we
programmed through creation, intelligent creation, evolution, or some
other theory of the day, to worship something, anything? Is there
some electron in our brains that is activated when we perceive
hopelessness, a click that sets in motion the desire to worship?
There are those who turn to their perceived God, when they are
confronted with a situation over which they (or any others) have no
control.
Doctor: Mr. Jones, you have a terminal illness. There is nothing the
medical community can do for you.
Mr. Jones: Okay then, I'll just pray to my God. I have hope!
Doctor: Mr. Atheist, you have a terminal illness. There is nothing
the medical community can do for you.
Mr. Atheist: How much time do I have? Is this the first case on
record? Will the illness be named after me? Have you consulted with
others? Have you investigated the possibility of ongoing research for
this illness? I'm certain that through environment, heredity, or pure
accident, I have fallen victim to this illness. Perhaps through
research, a cure will be discovered before my demise. I have hope!
On the bright side, I guess I won't need to make a mortgage or car
payment.
Do atheists have the strength to embrace logic and intellect when
threatened by superstition?
Plenty of them have, yes.
Are atheists programmed with the same
urge to worship, but consciously commit their intellect to do battle
with the forces of superstition? Perhaps the atheists are void of
this urge that has infected most of humankind.
I believe that what some express as an urge to worship is actually just a human
expansion of a much more fundamental motivating force - see below.
This is not a condemnation of any belief. I am truly interested in
knowing if atheists have this "urge" to worship, and fight it off, or
never get it at all?
Thank you for your patience.
I suspect that at the base of all motivations - be they human or animal,
terrestrial or alien, real or virtual - have at their absolute core this simple
imperative: "move".
All living things are driven by the urge to move. The urge not to fossilize.
That urge is what I consider to be the root of the human concept of "God". We
are like a question that the universe has asked itself:
Universe: I AM.
Subset 'We': 'YOU AM' _what_, exactly?
Universe: Nothing, just I AM.
Subset 'We': Awww, c'mon old man, that can't be all there is to it. Can it?
Universe: YES.
Subset 'We': Oh, now we'll see about -that-....
<the rest is history>
Anywho, we as humans have become prone to utilizing symbology. So much so that
at this point, symbology is essential to our existence. If we were to suddenly
suffer, sayyyy, some sort of virus that rendered all of us incapable of grasping
symbology, we would become just like all the other primates on the planet.
Weaker, probably. We'd very quickly reduce in number and may even die
completely off.
It is our tendency to represent everything within our own minds as a "symbol" of
some sort that has given rise to the human notion called "god" or "gods". When
we became symbol-grasping creatures, everything changed immediately for us.
We even see each other as symbols within our own minds. I see you on the
street, I say hello, you reply, we pass each other by - that wasn't an
interaction between two people, that was an interaction between two sets of
symbols. The "Hello" came out of my mouth, it's a symbol. As were the twitch
in your eyebrow and the smirk on your face, the tone in your voice - everything
about you is a symbol of something within you that communicates to all the other
people around you, who quite naturally possess a nice little bundle of symbols
all their own.
The sound of the word "hello" from my mouth to your ears (or my hands to your
eyes if deaf) and then your response back to me - that quick exchange of
symbology sets the tone for the entire day of interaction between us if and when
it occurs.
That's one manifestation of our symbol-loving nature. Another one is that we
all keep a running simulation of the entire universe within our own minds, the
nature of that simulation being based upon our perceptions and emotions. "The
Universe" becomes a symbol to us, because we are creatures of symbology.
At one point in our history, we were incapable of distinguishing the symbol of a
thing from that thing itself. It's why people believed in sympathetic magic,
voodoo, or the power one could wield over another by knowing their true name and
uttering it in certain ways. Our symbols became confused, and we began
mistaking them for the real deal.
So here we have this "the whole universe" simulation running in our brains, and
we sense it, and we feel it - quite naturally - in a symbological sense. Our
internal symbol of "THE WHOLE UNIVERSE" - that is from whence the human notion
of a god has come. We feel this symbol in our head and we think it's "the real
deal". Slap the label of "God" on that symbol and you've got yourself a real
crowd-pleaser. At least in more barbaric times. ;-)
We're tricky little critters, but we trick none more so than we trick ourselves.
And so it is that I believe the human notion of god is naught but another
manifestation of that same sensation which drives the spider to weave her web.
It's an urge, it's here, it's in us, it's not necessary to see it as any one
religion proclaims it to be, it isn't necessary to personify it. But it's the
reason we go on living.
Call it "God" if you like, but to me, it is simply nothing more than the urge...
....to....
....move.
.
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| User: "Kate " |
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| Title: Re: Programmed to Worship |
28 Jan 2007 08:31:04 PM |
|
|
On 27 Jan 2007 23:51:44 -0800, wrote:
I've recently become interested in ancient history. It appears that
man has always created something to worship. It has been pagan gods,
man gods, woman gods, wind gods, sun gods, rain gods, war gods, love
gods, crop gods, you name it; we've always had something. Are we
programmed through creation, intelligent creation, evolution, or some
other theory of the day, to worship something, anything? Is there
some electron in our brains that is activated when we perceive
hopelessness, a click that sets in motion the desire to worship?
There are those who turn to their perceived God, when they are
confronted with a situation over which they (or any others) have no
control.
Doctor: Mr. Jones, you have a terminal illness. There is nothing the
medical community can do for you.
Mr. Jones: Okay then, I'll just pray to my God. I have hope!
Doctor: Mr. Atheist, you have a terminal illness. There is nothing
the medical community can do for you.
Mr. Atheist: How much time do I have? Is this the first case on
record? Will the illness be named after me? Have you consulted with
others? Have you investigated the possibility of ongoing research for
this illness? I'm certain that through environment, heredity, or pure
accident, I have fallen victim to this illness. Perhaps through
research, a cure will be discovered before my demise. I have hope!
On the bright side, I guess I won't need to make a mortgage or car
payment.
Do atheists have the strength to embrace logic and intellect when
threatened by superstition? Are atheists programmed with the same
urge to worship, but consciously commit their intellect to do battle
with the forces of superstition? Perhaps the atheists are void of
this urge that has infected most of humankind.
This is not a condemnation of any belief. I am truly interested in
knowing if atheists have this "urge" to worship, and fight it off, or
never get it at all?
Thank you for your patience.
Nope, not in the least. Even when I was a deist (under 13), I never
worshipped, just thought it might be cool.
It would be like pretending to yourself that the drunk in the family
is right - it is everyone else's fault he has problems. You might say
that to his face - to keep him from beating the crap out of you, but
to play that game for real - there lies a real hell and we all know
it.
.
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| User: "MsFrustum" |
|
| Title: Re: Programmed to Worship |
28 Jan 2007 02:04:06 AM |
|
|
On Jan 28, 12:51=EF=BF=BDam, wrote:
I've recently become interested in ancient history. =A0It appears that
man has always created something to worship. =A0It has been pagan gods,
man gods, woman gods, wind gods, sun gods, rain gods, war gods, love
gods, crop gods, you name it; we've always had something. =A0Are we
programmed through creation, intelligent creation, evolution, or some
other theory of the day, to worship something, anything? =A0Is there
some electron in our brains that is activated when we perceive
hopelessness, a click that sets in motion the desire to worship? =A0
There are those who turn to their perceived God, when they are
confronted with a situation over which they (or any others) have no
control.
Doctor: =A0Mr. Jones, you have a terminal illness. =A0There is nothing the
medical community can do for you.
Mr. Jones: Okay then, I'll just pray to my God. =A0I have hope!
Doctor: =A0Mr. Atheist, you have a terminal illness. =A0There is nothing
the medical community can do for you.
Mr. Atheist: =A0How much time do I have? =A0Is this the first case on
record? =A0Will the illness be named after me? =A0Have you consulted with
others? Have you investigated the possibility of ongoing research for
this illness? =A0I'm certain that through environment, heredity, or pure
accident, I have fallen victim to this illness. =A0Perhaps through
research, a cure will be discovered before my demise. =A0I have hope! =A0
On the bright side, I guess I won't need to make a mortgage or car
payment.
Do atheists have the strength to embrace logic and intellect when
threatened by superstition? =A0Are atheists programmed with the same
urge to worship, but consciously commit their intellect to do battle
with the forces of superstition? =A0Perhaps the atheists are void of
this urge that has infected most of humankind.
This is not a condemnation of any belief. =A0I am truly interested in
knowing if atheists have this "urge" to worship, and fight it off, or
never get it at all?
Thank you for your patience.
You seem to confuse praying with worship. They aren't the same=20
thing. Saying/praying "Help me" doesn't mean anything more than it=20
says.
I am truly interested in knowing if atheists have this "urge" to worship,=
and fight it off, or never get it at all?
That would seem to depend on the individual atheist and especially on=20
what religious training he was subjected to before adopting atheism.
---
LOP
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Programmed to Worship |
28 Jan 2007 06:11:12 AM |
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"MsFrustum" <msfrustum@aol.com> wrote
snip
That would seem to depend on the individual atheist and especially on
what religious training he was subjected to before adopting atheism.
Excuse me? I didn't "adopt" atheism. Like everyone, I was born one and
have remained one.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
.
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| User: "MsFrustum" |
|
| Title: Re: Programmed to Worship |
28 Jan 2007 11:53:49 AM |
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On Jan 28, 5:11=EF=BF=BDam, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote:
"MsFrustum" <msfrus...@aol.com> wrote
snip
That would seem to depend on the individual atheist and especially on
what religious training he was subjected to before adopting atheism.
Excuse me?
No, I won't excuse you. You're wrong.
I didn't "adopt" atheism.
Of course you did. Well (see below) I hope you did.
=A0Like everyone, I was born one and have remained one.
Like everyone, you were born one. But, everyone does not remain one. =20
At some point you made a conscious decision to remain one. That is,=20
you consciously rejected the alternatives and adopted atheism.
The "atheism-from-ignorance" you were born with is quite different=20
than "atheism-from-reason."
Unless you've remained just as ignorant as the day you were born, you=20
did at some point drop atheism-from-ignorance and _adopt_ atheism-from-
reason.
--
Robyn
---
LOP
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Programmed to Worship |
29 Jan 2007 03:14:07 PM |
|
|
"MsFrustum" <msfrustum@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1170006829.137263.182620@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 28, 5:11?am, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote:
"MsFrustum" <msfrus...@aol.com> wrote
snip
That would seem to depend on the individual atheist and especially on
what religious training he was subjected to before adopting atheism.
Excuse me?
No, I won't excuse you. You're wrong.
Actually, no, you still are (and probably have always been so)
I didn't "adopt" atheism.
Of course you did.
Sorry, wrong again.
Well (see below) I hope you did.
Like everyone, I was born one and have remained one.
Like everyone, you were born one. But, everyone does not remain one.
At some point you made a conscious decision to remain one. That is,
you consciously rejected the alternatives and adopted atheism.
Sorry, still wrong. Oh well, not my problem.
<remaining ***** deleted>
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
.
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Programmed to Worship |
28 Jan 2007 12:24:50 PM |
|
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On 28 Jan 2007 09:53:49 -0800, "MsFrustum" <msfrustum@aol.com> wrote:
On Jan 28, 5:11?am, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote:
"MsFrustum" <msfrus...@aol.com> wrote
snip
That would seem to depend on the individual atheist and especially on
what religious training he was subjected to before adopting atheism.
Excuse me?
No, I won't excuse you. You're wrong.
Yet another lying, in-your-face nasty theist who pretends they're a
mind-reader.
I didn't "adopt" atheism.
Of course you did. Well (see below) I hope you did.
Are you a mind-reader, *****?
There are plenty of us who were never brainwashed to be theist as
children.
But brain-dead religionists too stupid to understand the world outside
their religion, rudely refuse to accept that because they imagine the
whole world revolves around the hypothetical object of their religious
belief.
ike everyone, I was born one and have remained one.
Like everyone, you were born one. But, everyone does not remain one.
At some point you made a conscious decision to remain one. That is,
you consciously rejected the alternatives and adopted atheism.
Then what am I, liar?
The "atheism-from-ignorance" you were born with is quite different
than "atheism-from-reason."
No, liar. The day I discovered that some adults believed something I
didn't, made no difference my not believing it.
Unless you've remained just as ignorant as the day you were born, you
did at some point drop atheism-from-ignorance and _adopt_ atheism-from-
reason.
Both of which are your pig-ignorant straw men.
--
Robyn
---
LOP
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| User: "Kate " |
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| Title: Re: Programmed to Worship |
28 Jan 2007 02:21:03 PM |
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On 28 Jan 2007 09:53:49 -0800, "MsFrustum" <msfrustum@aol.com> wrote:
On Jan 28, 5:11�am, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote:
"MsFrustum" <msfrus...@aol.com> wrote
snip
That would seem to depend on the individual atheist and especially on
what religious training he was subjected to before adopting atheism.
Excuse me?
No, I won't excuse you. You're wrong.
I didn't "adopt" atheism.
Of course you did. Well (see below) I hope you did.
Like everyone, I was born one and have remained one.
Like everyone, you were born one. But, everyone does not remain one.
At some point you made a conscious decision to remain one. That is,
you consciously rejected the alternatives and adopted atheism.
The "atheism-from-ignorance" you were born with is quite different
than "atheism-from-reason."
Unless you've remained just as ignorant as the day you were born, you
did at some point drop atheism-from-ignorance and _adopt_ atheism-from-
reason.
You don't adopt it. You just see no reason to become theist, anymore
than you see any reason to adopt a-easterbunnism.
How many non beliefs do you think you 'adopted'? Millions and
billions? You must be quite busy.
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Programmed to Worship |
28 Jan 2007 02:28:43 PM |
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On 28 Jan 2007 14:21:03 -0600, (Kate ) wrote:
On 28 Jan 2007 09:53:49 -0800, "MsFrustum" <msfrustum@aol.com> wrote:
On Jan 28, 5:11�am, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote:
"MsFrustum" <msfrus...@aol.com> wrote
snip
That would seem to depend on the individual atheist and especially on
what religious training he was subjected to before adopting atheism.
Excuse me?
No, I won't excuse you. You're wrong.
I didn't "adopt" atheism.
Of course you did. Well (see below) I hope you did.
Like everyone, I was born one and have remained one.
Like everyone, you were born one. But, everyone does not remain one.
At some point you made a conscious decision to remain one. That is,
you consciously rejected the alternatives and adopted atheism.
Only in the fantasies of idiots who think the beliefs of somebody
else's religion have any relevance outside it.
The "atheism-from-ignorance" you were born with is quite different
than "atheism-from-reason."
What "atheism from ignorance"?
Unless you've remained just as ignorant as the day you were born, you
did at some point drop atheism-from-ignorance and _adopt_ atheism-from-
reason.
You don't adopt it. You just see no reason to become theist, anymore
than you see any reason to adopt a-easterbunnism.
There are two kinds of people who don't understand atheists and
atheism:
- those who see the world in terms of the tenets of their religion,
- those who see it in terms of the tenets of somebody else's religion.
It disappoints me how many fall into the latter category.
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| User: "MsFrustum" |
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| Title: Re: Programmed to Worship |
28 Jan 2007 08:30:51 PM |
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On Jan 28, 1:21=EF=BF=BDpm, (Kate ) wrote:
On 28 Jan 2007 09:53:49 -0800, "MsFrustum" <msfrus...@aol.com> wrote:
On Jan 28, 5:11=EF=BF=BDam, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wro=
te:
"MsFrustum" <msfrus...@aol.com> wrote
snip
That would seem to depend on the individual atheist and especially on
what religious training he was subjected to before adopting atheism.
Excuse me?
No, I won't excuse you. =A0You're wrong.
I didn't "adopt" atheism.
Of course you did. =A0Well (see below) I hope you did.
=A0Like everyone, I was born one and have remained one.
Like everyone, you were born one. =A0But, everyone does not remain one. =
=A0
At some point you made a conscious decision to remain one. =A0That is,
you consciously rejected the alternatives and adopted atheism.
The "atheism-from-ignorance" you were born with is quite different
than "atheism-from-reason."
Unless you've remained just as ignorant as the day you were born, you
did at some point drop atheism-from-ignorance and _adopt_ atheism-from-
reason.
You don't adopt it. =A0You just see no reason to become theist ...
Precisely! You "see no reason" thereby making a conscious decision to=20
remain atheist. You thus switch from "atheism-from-ignorance" to=20
"atheism-from-reason." In some cases, which don't apply to any of us=20
here, "adopt" may not be the best word, but there certainly is a=20
conscious decision involved in the switch.
... anymore than you see any reason to adopt a-easterbunnism.
Note that I was replying to Robyn, to whom "adopt" certainly does=20
apply. She spends a lot of time on this newsgroup, has applied for=20
and been granted an AA number which she includes in her every post,=20
has presumably read much about atheism -- although I confess I can't=20
certify that latter part from reading her posts. All those _actions_=20
on her part definitely involve conscious decisions. I think "adopt"=20
is, or is very close to, the right word.
If she'd done the same with a-easterbunnism, then "adopt" would apply=20
there too.
---
LOP
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| User: "Kate " |
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| Title: Re: Programmed to Worship |
28 Jan 2007 11:22:02 PM |
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On 28 Jan 2007 18:30:51 -0800, "MsFrustum" <msfrustum@aol.com> wrote:
On Jan 28, 1:21�pm, (Kate ) wrote:
On 28 Jan 2007 09:53:49 -0800, "MsFrustum" <msfrus...@aol.com> wrote:
On Jan 28, 5:11�am, "Robibnikoff" <witchy...@broomstick.com> wrote:
"MsFrustum" <msfrus...@aol.com> wrote
snip
That would seem to depend on the individual atheist and especially on
what religious training he was subjected to before adopting atheism.
Excuse me?
No, I won't excuse you. You're wrong.
I didn't "adopt" atheism.
Of course you did. Well (see below) I hope you did.
Like everyone, I was born one and have remained one.
Like everyone, you were born one. But, everyone does not remain one.
At some point you made a conscious decision to remain one. That is,
you consciously rejected the alternatives and adopted atheism.
The "atheism-from-ignorance" you were born with is quite different
than "atheism-from-reason."
Unless you've remained just as ignorant as the day you were born, you
did at some point drop atheism-from-ignorance and _adopt_ atheism-from-
reason.
You don't adopt it. You just see no reason to become theist ...
Precisely! You "see no reason" thereby making a conscious decision to
remain atheist. You thus switch from "atheism-from-ignorance" to
"atheism-from-reason." In some cases, which don't apply to any of us
here, "adopt" may not be the best word, but there certainly is a
conscious decision involved in the switch.
... anymore than you see any reason to adopt a-easterbunnism.
Note that I was replying to Robyn, to whom "adopt" certainly does
apply. She spends a lot of time on this newsgroup, has applied for
and been granted an AA number which she includes in her every post,
has presumably read much about atheism -- although I confess I can't
certify that latter part from reading her posts. All those _actions_
on her part definitely involve conscious decisions. I think "adopt"
is, or is very close to, the right word.
So you think being interested in atheism means you adopt it? I don't
think you know the meaning of 'adopt'
Atheism is simply the absense of belief in gods. It's not the
adoption of any active beliefs or ethics. If you've read much here,
surely you've picked that up.
If she'd done the same with a-easterbunnism, then "adopt" would apply
there too.
Oh horsepuckey.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Programmed to Worship |
28 Jan 2007 04:06:07 AM |
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On 28 Jan 2007 00:04:06 -0800, "MsFrustum" <msfrustum@aol.com> wrote:
- Refer: <1169971445.998587.72460@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
On Jan 28, 12:51?am, wrote:
I've recently become interested in ancient history. t appears that
man has always created something to worship. t has been pagan gods,
man gods, woman gods, wind gods, sun gods, rain gods, war gods, love
gods, crop gods, you name it; we've always had something.
re we
programmed through creation, intelligent creation, evolution, or some
other theory of the day, to worship something, anything? s there
some electron in our brains that is activated when we perceive
hopelessness, a click that sets in motion the desire to worship?
There are those who turn to their perceived God, when they are
confronted with a situation over which they (or any others) have no
control.
Doctor:
r. Jones, you have a terminal illness. here is nothing the
medical community can do for you.
Mr. Jones: Okay then, I'll just pray to my God. have hope!
Doctor:
r. Atheist, you have a terminal illness. here is nothing
the medical community can do for you.
Mr. Atheist: ow much time do I have? s this the first case on
record? ill the illness be named after me? ave you consulted with
others? Have you investigated the possibility of ongoing research for
this illness? 'm certain that through environment, heredity, or pure
accident, I have fallen victim to this illness. erhaps through
research, a cure will be discovered before my demise. have hope!
On the bright side, I guess I won't need to make a mortgage or car
payment.
Do atheists have the strength to embrace logic and intellect when
threatened by superstition?
re atheists programmed with the same
urge to worship, but consciously commit their intellect to do battle
with the forces of superstition? erhaps the atheists are void of
this urge that has infected most of humankind.
This is not a condemnation of any belief. am truly interested in
knowing if atheists have this "urge" to worship, and fight it off, or
never get it at all?
Thank you for your patience.
You seem to confuse praying with worship. They aren't the same
thing. Saying/praying "Help me" doesn't mean anything more than it
says.
I am truly interested in knowing if atheists have this "urge" to worship, and fight it off, or never get it at all?
That would seem to depend on the individual atheist and especially on
what religious training he was subjected to before adopting atheism.
"Adopting Atheism"?!?!?!??!
We are ALL born atheist.
We must adopt theism!
(Usually via tortuous child abuse)
If anything, many of us shake off theism and resume atheism.
I do wish that people would get this very basic fact right.
No wonder the likes of Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins are hot under
the collar!
--
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| User: "Richo" |
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| Title: Re: Programmed to Worship |
28 Jan 2007 06:48:05 PM |
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On Jan 28, 6:51 pm, wrote:
I've recently become interested in ancient history. It appears that
man has always created something to worship. It has been pagan gods,
man gods, woman gods, wind gods, sun gods, rain gods, war gods, love
gods, crop gods, you name it; we've always had something. Are we
programmed through creation, intelligent creation, evolution, or some
other theory of the day, to worship something, anything?
We have evolved to have an inate nature - to have tendencies.
Its not deterministic - you can have a tendency - and recognise it and
fight it.
The sex drive is inate and strong - but we can resist our sexual
urges.
Every man has a sex drive - but it is not true that every man is a
rapist.
Is there
some electron in our brains that is activated when we perceive
hopelessness, a click that sets in motion the desire to worship?
No - there is a network of neurons (brain cells).
There are those who turn to their perceived God, when they are
confronted with a situation over which they (or any others) have no
control.
They can also turn to their non-perceived God as well.
Most people worship entirely immaterial (and I believe imaginary) gods
these days - in the past people had gods you could see and possibly
touch - that is the exception rather than the rule these days.
Doctor: Mr. Jones, you have a terminal illness. There is nothing the
medical community can do for you.
Mr. Jones: Okay then, I'll just pray to my God. I have hope!
Doctor: Mr. Atheist, you have a terminal illness. There is nothing
the medical community can do for you.
Mr. Atheist: How much time do I have? Is this the first case on
record? Will the illness be named after me? Have you consulted with
others? Have you investigated the possibility of ongoing research for
this illness? I'm certain that through environment, heredity, or pure
accident, I have fallen victim to this illness. Perhaps through
research, a cure will be discovered before my demise. I have hope!
On the bright side, I guess I won't need to make a mortgage or car
payment.
Do atheists have the strength to embrace logic and intellect when
threatened by superstition?
Often Theist have the same strength too - some times it fails to win
the battle with other passions and tendencies.
Are atheists programmed with the same
urge to worship, but consciously commit their intellect to do battle
with the forces of superstition? Perhaps the atheists are void of
this urge that has infected most of humankind.
I think we humans have the same urges and tendencies - we just deal
with them differently.
This is not a condemnation of any belief. I am truly interested in
knowing if atheists have this "urge" to worship, and fight it off, or
never get it at all?
I have, through self awareness and analysis, come to see the urge as
negative and destructive and resist it.
I don't speak for anyone else.
Mark.
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| User: "Toby Inkster" |
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| Title: Re: Programmed to Worship |
28 Jan 2007 05:41:36 AM |
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rjstorm wrote:
I've recently become interested in ancient history. It appears that
man has always created something to worship. It has been pagan gods,
man gods, woman gods, wind gods, sun gods, rain gods, war gods, love
gods, crop gods, you name it; we've always had something. Are we
programmed through creation, intelligent creation, evolution, or some
other theory of the day, to worship something, anything?
There was an article about this in _New Scientist_ 28 Jan 2006. Sadly I
seem to have misplaced my copy. (I have the previous and following weeks
filed, but the 28th is missing.) It's online here though:
http://www.newscientist.com/contents/issue/2536.html
You need to be a subscriber to read the full articles, but the gist of
them is that evolution seems to have favoured societies that collectively
worship things -- note "collectively" as that's the important part, not
the worshipping.
In the past, it seems to have helped with tribal bonding in much the same
way that communal grooming does in gorillas. (I assume that because humans
don't have as much body hair, they needed a good substitute for hours of
communal lice-picking.)
There is also supposedly a euphoria factor -- hundreds of tribe members
around a camp fire, singing and dancing.
Also, it increases hostility to people outside your own group, which is
good for the survival of your own genes. Think Lord-of-the-Flies-style mob
mentality: kill the pig, cut her throat, spill her blood, etc.
--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
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