| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Saville" |
| Date: |
21 Nov 2004 05:53:25 PM |
| Object: |
Proof?? |
Hi All,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be accepted.
that, we cannot prove that God exists!
If this is the case, then how can we prove
that God dose 'not' exist?
Saville.
.
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| User: "Ike" |
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| Title: Re: Proof?? |
21 Nov 2004 07:30:51 PM |
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"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in message
news:VT9od.2354$h_.192@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
Hi All,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be accepted.
that, we cannot prove that God exists!
If this is the case, then how can we prove
that God dose 'not' exist?
Saville.
If God exists in your mind, I can only prove it by being you. If God doesn't
exist in your mind, I can only prove His not existing by being you. Since
God doesn't exist in my mind I can only prove it to you, by you being me.
--
Freedom of thought entails no "Intellectual Property".
.
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| User: "Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About Clayton...but were afraid to ask!" |
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| Title: Re: Proof?? |
21 Nov 2004 07:10:10 PM |
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"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in message
news:VT9od.2354$h_.192@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
Hi All,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be accepted.
that, we cannot prove that God exists!
If this is the case, then how can we prove
that God dose 'not' exist?
I think I'm going to scream!
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Proof?? |
22 Nov 2004 02:13:38 PM |
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On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:10:10 +1000, "Everything You Ever Wanted To
Know About Clayton...but were afraid to ask!"
<cjfat@SPAMBLOCKphonyemail.com> wrote:
"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in message
news:VT9od.2354$h_.192@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
Hi All,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be accepted.
that, we cannot prove that God exists!
If this is the case, then how can we prove
that God dose 'not' exist?
I think I'm going to scream!
I think you'll be joining a chorus!
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
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| User: "jwk" |
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| Title: Re: Proof?? |
23 Nov 2004 11:34:36 AM |
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stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote in message news:<33i4q05tmmd3d6t98n1upb2oentjnj443c@4ax.com>...
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:10:10 +1000, "Everything You Ever Wanted To
Know About Clayton...but were afraid to ask!"
<cjfat@SPAMBLOCKphonyemail.com> wrote:
"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in message
news:VT9od.2354$h_.192@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
Hi All,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be accepted.
that, we cannot prove that God exists!
If this is the case, then how can we prove
that God dose 'not' exist?
I think I'm going to scream!
I think you'll be joining a chorus!
What is this? About the thousandth time an underage xian thought he
could stump those evil atheists with this bit of "logic"?
jwk
.
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| User: "Raptor514" |
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| Title: Re: Proof?? |
21 Nov 2004 07:12:37 PM |
|
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"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in message
news:VT9od.2354$h_.192@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
Hi All,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be accepted.
that, we cannot prove that God exists!
If this is the case, then how can we prove
that God dose 'not' exist?
I would say that the generic idea of 'God' as in 'some kind of powerful
supernatural being' cannot be disproven--which puts the idea in the same
category as leprechauns, and invisible flying elephants.
However, the Christian/Muslim/Jewish concepts of God are logically
incoherent and cannot exist in the same sense that square circles and
married bachelors do not exist. And so, the answer to your question depends
upon what, precisely, you mean by the term 'God.'
With regards to the Christian/Muslim/Jewish God I'm just as strong an
atheist as the average Christian/Muslim/Jew is towards Zeus. I'm just a bit
more consistent in the application is all.
Raptor514
Saville.
.
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Proof?? |
21 Nov 2004 07:37:22 PM |
|
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"Raptor514" <Raptor514@SPAMSUCKS.com> wrote in message
news:92bod.548$TG2.104@trnddc01...
"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in message
news:VT9od.2354$h_.192@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
Hi All,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be accepted.
that, we cannot prove that God exists!
If this is the case, then how can we prove
that God dose 'not' exist?
I would say that the generic idea of 'God' as in 'some kind of powerful
supernatural being' cannot be disproven--which puts the idea in the same
category as leprechauns, and invisible flying elephants.
However, the Christian/Muslim/Jewish concepts of God are logically
incoherent and cannot exist in the same sense that square circles and
married bachelors do not exist. And so, the answer to your question
depends
upon what, precisely, you mean by the term 'God.'
With regards to the Christian/Muslim/Jewish God I'm just as strong an
atheist as the average Christian/Muslim/Jew is towards Zeus. I'm just a
bit
more consistent in the application is all.
Note also that if a given definition of a god requires that objective
evidence be present, and that evidence is not present, then that god does
not exist. For instance, The Christian god says that followers can drink any
poison without ill effect. This constitutes an objectively testable claim
that can disprove the god.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
.
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| User: "Raptor514" |
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| Title: Re: Proof?? |
21 Nov 2004 11:15:08 PM |
|
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"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:U6ednfqUDMlT3zzcRVn-uQ@io.com...
"Raptor514" <Raptor514@SPAMSUCKS.com> wrote in message
news:92bod.548$TG2.104@trnddc01...
"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in message
news:VT9od.2354$h_.192@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
Hi All,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be accepted.
that, we cannot prove that God exists!
If this is the case, then how can we prove
that God dose 'not' exist?
I would say that the generic idea of 'God' as in 'some kind of powerful
supernatural being' cannot be disproven--which puts the idea in the same
category as leprechauns, and invisible flying elephants.
However, the Christian/Muslim/Jewish concepts of God are logically
incoherent and cannot exist in the same sense that square circles and
married bachelors do not exist. And so, the answer to your question
depends
upon what, precisely, you mean by the term 'God.'
With regards to the Christian/Muslim/Jewish God I'm just as strong an
atheist as the average Christian/Muslim/Jew is towards Zeus. I'm just a
bit
more consistent in the application is all.
Note also that if a given definition of a god requires that objective
evidence be present, and that evidence is not present, then that god does
not exist. For instance, The Christian god says that followers can drink
any
poison without ill effect. This constitutes an objectively testable claim
that can disprove the god.
I dunno, I think more testing is required.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
.
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| User: "Liz" |
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| Title: Re: Proof?? |
22 Nov 2004 05:57:46 AM |
|
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On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 05:15:08 GMT, "Raptor514"
<Raptor514@SPAMSUCKS.com> in news message
<wBeod.1849$6m2.227@trnddc04> wrote:
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:U6ednfqUDMlT3zzcRVn-uQ@io.com...
"Raptor514" <Raptor514@SPAMSUCKS.com> wrote in message
news:92bod.548$TG2.104@trnddc01...
"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in message
news:VT9od.2354$h_.192@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
Hi All,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be accepted.
that, we cannot prove that God exists!
If this is the case, then how can we prove
that God dose 'not' exist?
I would say that the generic idea of 'God' as in 'some kind of powerful
supernatural being' cannot be disproven--which puts the idea in the same
category as leprechauns, and invisible flying elephants.
However, the Christian/Muslim/Jewish concepts of God are logically
incoherent and cannot exist in the same sense that square circles and
married bachelors do not exist. And so, the answer to your question
depends
upon what, precisely, you mean by the term 'God.'
With regards to the Christian/Muslim/Jewish God I'm just as strong an
atheist as the average Christian/Muslim/Jew is towards Zeus. I'm just a
bit
more consistent in the application is all.
Note also that if a given definition of a god requires that objective
evidence be present, and that evidence is not present, then that god does
not exist. For instance, The Christian god says that followers can drink
any
poison without ill effect. This constitutes an objectively testable claim
that can disprove the god.
I dunno, I think more testing is required.
Did you have any subject(s) in mind?
Überwench #658 Now a *real* atheist!
Dame Liz the Undaunted Ath.D BAAWA
Charter Member of SMASH
and Queen of the known universe
.
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| User: "wbarwell" |
|
| Title: Re: Proof?? |
22 Nov 2004 12:48:36 PM |
|
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Liz wrote:
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 05:15:08 GMT, "Raptor514"
<Raptor514@SPAMSUCKS.com> in news message
<wBeod.1849$6m2.227@trnddc04> wrote:
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:U6ednfqUDMlT3zzcRVn-uQ@io.com...
"Raptor514" <Raptor514@SPAMSUCKS.com> wrote in message
news:92bod.548$TG2.104@trnddc01...
"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in message
news:VT9od.2354$h_.192@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
Hi All,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be accepted.
that, we cannot prove that God exists!
If this is the case, then how can we prove
that God dose 'not' exist?
I would say that the generic idea of 'God' as in 'some kind of
powerful supernatural being' cannot be disproven--which puts the idea
in the same category as leprechauns, and invisible flying elephants.
However, the Christian/Muslim/Jewish concepts of God are logically
incoherent and cannot exist in the same sense that square circles and
married bachelors do not exist. And so, the answer to your question
depends
upon what, precisely, you mean by the term 'God.'
With regards to the Christian/Muslim/Jewish God I'm just as strong an
atheist as the average Christian/Muslim/Jew is towards Zeus. I'm just
a
bit
more consistent in the application is all.
Note also that if a given definition of a god requires that objective
evidence be present, and that evidence is not present, then that god
does not exist. For instance, The Christian god says that followers can
drink
any
poison without ill effect. This constitutes an objectively testable
claim that can disprove the god.
I dunno, I think more testing is required.
Did you have any subject(s) in mind?
"Here, Duke, drink this."
--
Kerry - two medals a silver and bronze star.
Bush? Well they don't give medals
for going AWOL, missing your medical and
getting grounded or falling off of a bar stool.
Kerry - a hero, Bush - a zero
Cheerful Charlie
.
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| User: "Carl Kaufmann" |
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| Title: Re: Proof?? |
22 Nov 2004 10:00:40 AM |
|
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Raptor514 wrote:
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:U6ednfqUDMlT3zzcRVn-uQ@io.com...
"Raptor514" <Raptor514@SPAMSUCKS.com> wrote in message
news:92bod.548$TG2.104@trnddc01...
"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in message
news:VT9od.2354$h_.192@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
Hi All,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be accepted.
that, we cannot prove that God exists!
If this is the case, then how can we prove
that God dose 'not' exist?
I would say that the generic idea of 'God' as in 'some kind of powerful
supernatural being' cannot be disproven--which puts the idea in the same
category as leprechauns, and invisible flying elephants.
However, the Christian/Muslim/Jewish concepts of God are logically
incoherent and cannot exist in the same sense that square circles and
married bachelors do not exist. And so, the answer to your question
depends
upon what, precisely, you mean by the term 'God.'
With regards to the Christian/Muslim/Jewish God I'm just as strong an
atheist as the average Christian/Muslim/Jew is towards Zeus. I'm just a
bit
more consistent in the application is all.
Note also that if a given definition of a god requires that objective
evidence be present, and that evidence is not present, then that god does
not exist. For instance, The Christian god says that followers can drink
any
poison without ill effect. This constitutes an objectively testable claim
that can disprove the god.
I dunno, I think more testing is required.
<lol>
--
EAC Liar, Damned Liar, and Statistician
alt.atheist #1966
"Statistical thinking will one day be as necessary for efficient
citizenship as the ability to read and write." - H.G. Wells
.
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: Proof?? |
22 Nov 2004 12:47:38 PM |
|
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Raptor514 wrote:
"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in message
news:VT9od.2354$h_.192@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
Hi All,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be accepted.
that, we cannot prove that God exists!
If this is the case, then how can we prove
that God dose 'not' exist?
I would say that the generic idea of 'God' as in 'some kind of powerful
supernatural being' cannot be disproven--which puts the idea in the same
category as leprechauns, and invisible flying elephants.
However, the Christian/Muslim/Jewish concepts of God are logically
incoherent and cannot exist in the same sense that square circles and
married bachelors do not exist. And so, the answer to your question
depends upon what, precisely, you mean by the term 'God.'
You can actually disprove any sufficiently perfect god
this way not just Judeo-Christian ones. The idea of a perfect god,
Atman of Hinduism is also vulnerable to such disproofs.
--
Kerry - two medals a silver and bronze star.
Bush? Well they don't give medals
for going AWOL, missing your medical and
getting grounded or falling off of a bar stool.
Kerry - a hero, Bush - a zero
Cheerful Charlie
.
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Proof?? |
21 Nov 2004 07:19:24 PM |
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"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in message
news:VT9od.2354$h_.192@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
Hi All,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be accepted.
that, we cannot prove that God exists!
If this is the case, then how can we prove
that God dose 'not' exist?
If one cannot prove a god exists, then there's no reason to try to prove one
doesn't.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
.
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: Proof?? |
21 Nov 2004 08:16:09 PM |
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Denis Loubet wrote:
"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in message
news:VT9od.2354$h_.192@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
Hi All,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be accepted.
that, we cannot prove that God exists!
If this is the case, then how can we prove
that God dose 'not' exist?
If one cannot prove a god exists, then there's no reason to try to prove one
doesn't.
Why didn't I think of that - priceless, I like it
At this point it's best this thread be cut, for the umpteenth time!
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
.
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| User: "kathryn" |
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| Title: Re: Proof?? |
22 Nov 2004 01:40:04 AM |
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"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in message
news:VT9od.2354$h_.192@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
Hi All,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be accepted.
that, we cannot prove that God exists!
If this is the case, then how can we prove
that God dose 'not' exist?
Saville.
We cannot prove pixies exist
how can we prove that pixies don't exist.
Go work on that one and get back to me.
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Proof?? |
22 Nov 2004 07:06:34 AM |
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"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in message
news:VT9od.2354$h_.192@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
Hi All,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be accepted.
that, we cannot prove that God exists!
If this is the case, then how can we prove
that God dose 'not' exist?
We don't. How can we prove that leprechauns don't exist?
--
---------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.
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| User: "Steve Jones" |
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| Title: Re: Proof?? |
22 Nov 2004 03:23:30 AM |
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"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in message news:<VT9od.2354$h_.192@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>...
Hi All,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be accepted.
that, we cannot prove that God exists!
If this is the case, then how can we prove
that God dose 'not' exist?
Saville.
How can we prove that absolutely *anything* we can imagine does not
exist?
Can you prove that there is no such thing as an Invisible Pink
Unicorn?
In a theoretically infinite universe, we cannot prove that a thing
does not exist - rather, those that claim a thing *does* exist are
asked to provide independently verifiable *evidence* that it does.
In the case of gods, as popularly conceived, I have not seen any such
evidence, and absent that evidence, I say that I do not believe such
gods exist.
Steve
(Pentylzic)
.
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| User: "jwk" |
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| Title: Re: Proof?? |
23 Nov 2004 11:21:01 AM |
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"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in message news:<VT9od.2354$h_.192@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>...
Hi All,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be accepted.
that, we cannot prove that God exists!
If this is the case, then how can we prove
that God dose 'not' exist?
You can't. Was there supposed to be a point to your question?
Everyone with half a brain knows you can't "prove" a negative. Not in
the mathematically accepted definition of a proof. However tall tails
should be doubted. Or do you believe in the Easter Bunny, too?
jwk
.
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| User: "Hypatia Kosh" |
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| Title: Re: Proof?? |
22 Nov 2004 09:47:04 AM |
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"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in message news:<VT9od.2354$h_.192@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>...
Hi All,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be accepted.
that, we cannot prove that God exists!
If this is the case, then how can we prove
that God dose 'not' exist?
We don't have to. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
There is no proof, ergo, the hypothesis does not merit consideration.
As for eternal souls (another key theist belief) there's a lot of good
proof *against* their existence, such as deteriation of memory and
mental functioning due to senescence or brain diseases.
-Hypatia
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Proof?? |
21 Nov 2004 06:10:14 PM |
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"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in news:VT9od.2354$h_.192@newsfe3-
gui.ntli.net:
Hi All,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be accepted.
that, we cannot prove that God exists!
If this is the case, then how can we prove
that God dose 'not' exist?
Saville.
Why would we care? If there is no proof that it does exist, why believe
anyway?
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Save Your Dixie Cups, The South Will Rise Again!
.
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| User: "Saville" |
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| Title: Re: Proof?? |
21 Nov 2004 06:35:33 PM |
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"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95A8C306388ECfstone69@207.69.189.191...
"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in news:VT9od.2354$h_.192@newsfe3-
gui.ntli.net:
Hi All,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be accepted.
that, we cannot prove that God exists!
If this is the case, then how can we prove
that God dose 'not' exist?
Saville.
Why would we care?
If there is no proof that it does exist, why believe anyway?
--
Fred Stone
Hi Fred,
I'm not talking about belief!
Its about evidence for Gods existence or
evidence for Gods non-existence!
Can it be proven, one way or the other??
Saville,
.
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| User: "Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About Clayton...but were afraid to ask!" |
|
| Title: Re: Proof?? |
21 Nov 2004 07:15:11 PM |
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"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in message
news:pvaod.2438$h_.32@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95A8C306388ECfstone69@207.69.189.191...
"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in news:VT9od.2354$h_.192@newsfe3-
gui.ntli.net:
Hi All,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be accepted.
that, we cannot prove that God exists!
If this is the case, then how can we prove
that God dose 'not' exist?
Saville.
Why would we care?
If there is no proof that it does exist, why believe anyway?
--
Fred Stone
Hi Fred,
I'm not talking about belief!
Its about evidence for Gods existence or
evidence for Gods non-existence!
Can it be proven, one way or the other??
Saville,
You aren't very bright, are you? Prove that the Invisible Pink Unicorn
don't exist! Prove that leprechauns don't exist! Prove that Santa Claus
doesn't exist! Prove that the Great Green Arkleseezur who sneezed the
universe into existence doesn't exist!
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Proof?? |
23 Nov 2004 05:40:22 AM |
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On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:15:11 +1000, "Everything You Ever Wanted To
Know About Clayton...but were afraid to ask!"
<cjfat@SPAMBLOCKphonyemail.com> wrote:
"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in message
news:pvaod.2438$h_.32@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95A8C306388ECfstone69@207.69.189.191...
"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in news:VT9od.2354$h_.192@newsfe3-
gui.ntli.net:
Hi All,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be accepted.
that, we cannot prove that God exists!
If this is the case, then how can we prove
that God dose 'not' exist?
Saville.
Why would we care?
If there is no proof that it does exist, why believe anyway?
--
Fred Stone
Hi Fred,
I'm not talking about belief!
Its about evidence for Gods existence or
evidence for Gods non-existence!
Can it be proven, one way or the other??
Saville,
You aren't very bright, are you? Prove that the Invisible Pink Unicorn
don't exist! Prove that leprechauns don't exist! Prove that Santa Claus
doesn't exist! Prove that the Great Green Arkleseezur who sneezed the
universe into existence doesn't exist!
<whiney voice>
But that's different...we *know" they don't exist...we don't have to
prove they don't exist. God is different, everybody knows that he
really does exist, so the eeeevil atheists have to prove he doesn't.
</whiney voice>
There, that just about covers the theist position...well, other than
the head up the ***** part, and I'm not that limber.
So, a member of the sect of the IPU. an irishman, a five year old and
a Jatravartid walk into a bar looking for Clayton to discuss his
heretical beliefs...
--
zamboni
#2139
I am Zamboni, and I approved this message.
.
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| User: "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" |
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| Title: Re: Proof?? |
22 Nov 2004 12:31:47 AM |
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"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in message
news:pvaod.2438$h_.32@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95A8C306388ECfstone69@207.69.189.191...
"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in news:VT9od.2354$h_.192@newsfe3-
gui.ntli.net:
Hi All,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be accepted.
that, we cannot prove that God exists!
If this is the case, then how can we prove
that God dose 'not' exist?
Saville.
Why would we care?
If there is no proof that it does exist, why believe anyway?
--
Fred Stone
Hi Fred,
I'm not talking about belief!
Its about evidence for Gods existence or
evidence for Gods non-existence!
Can it be proven, one way or the other??
Does God consciously monitor, control,
and maintain the existance of every particle of
the universe at every instance or did God throw
the dice at creation and let things play out?
I've heard both views espoused.
Oh, and what is proof?
--
rb #2187
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Proof?? |
21 Nov 2004 07:45:48 PM |
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"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in message
news:pvaod.2438$h_.32@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95A8C306388ECfstone69@207.69.189.191...
"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in news:VT9od.2354$h_.192@newsfe3-
gui.ntli.net:
Hi All,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be accepted.
that, we cannot prove that God exists!
If this is the case, then how can we prove
that God dose 'not' exist?
Saville.
Why would we care?
If there is no proof that it does exist, why believe anyway?
--
Fred Stone
Hi Fred,
I'm not talking about belief!
Its about evidence for Gods existence or
evidence for Gods non-existence!
Can it be proven, one way or the other??
Well, it depends on how you interpret the definition of the god and it's
properties.
Christians, for instance, insist their god is all good and all powerful. If
that were the case, we would expect the god to completely and perfectly
prevent evil. Since even Christians admit that there is evil, one would have
to conclude that the Christian god defined as all good does not exist.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
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| User: "jwk" |
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| Title: Re: Proof?? |
23 Nov 2004 11:30:07 AM |
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"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in message news:<pvaod.2438$h_.32@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>...
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95A8C306388ECfstone69@207.69.189.191...
"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in news:VT9od.2354$h_.192@newsfe3-
gui.ntli.net:
Hi All,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be accepted.
that, we cannot prove that God exists!
If this is the case, then how can we prove
that God dose 'not' exist?
Saville.
Why would we care?
If there is no proof that it does exist, why believe anyway?
--
Fred Stone
Hi Fred,
I'm not talking about belief!
Its about evidence for Gods existence or
evidence for Gods non-existence!
Can it be proven, one way or the other??
Saville,
Lack of evidence is evidence of a lack. Proof is an intelectual
exercise. You can't prove it exists (because it doesn't) and you
can't prove a negative. So what? Do you believe in the Invisible
Pink Unicorn? You can't "prove" it doesn't exist.
jwk
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
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| Title: Re: Proof?? |
21 Nov 2004 06:56:20 PM |
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"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in news:pvaod.2438$h_.32@newsfe3-
gui.ntli.net:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95A8C306388ECfstone69@207.69.189.191...
"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in news:VT9od.2354$h_.192@newsfe3-
gui.ntli.net:
Hi All,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be accepted.
that, we cannot prove that God exists!
If this is the case, then how can we prove
that God dose 'not' exist?
Saville.
Why would we care?
If there is no proof that it does exist, why believe anyway?
--
Fred Stone
Hi Fred,
I'm not talking about belief!
But I am. And I'm not talking about belief in abstractions or emotions
or other subjective "feelings". If I am to believe that God is an
objectively real being, I require real objective evidence.
Its about evidence for Gods existence or
evidence for Gods non-existence!
Can it be proven, one way or the other??
Define "god".
Evidence is one thing. There is plenty of evidence that the God of the
Bible, for instance, is a made up character. Same with the Jesus
character. The characters exist as fictional characters, in people's
minds, but nowhere else in the real universe.
When you get to more abstract definitions of "god" then logically, proof
becomes impossible one way or the other. This is usually an indication
that the abstract definition is itself useless, bordering upon
meaninglessness. One may indulge in all sorts of endless philosophical
meanderings about the meanings of words, but it all boils down to the
absense of real hard evidence.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Save Your Dixie Cups, The South Will Rise Again!
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Proof?? |
21 Nov 2004 06:55:18 PM |
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In our last episode <pvaod.2438$h_.32@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>, Saville lept
out of the bushes shouting:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95A8C306388ECfstone69@207.69.189.191...
"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in news:VT9od.2354$h_.192@newsfe3-
gui.ntli.net:
Hi All,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be accepted. that, we cannot
prove that God exists! If this is the case, then how can we prove that
God dose 'not' exist?
Saville.
Why would we care?
If there is no proof that it does exist, why believe anyway?
--
Fred Stone
Hi Fred,
I'm not talking about belief!
Its about evidence for Gods existence or evidence for Gods non-existence!
Can it be proven, one way or the other??
Still, if it cannot be shown to exist, why bother with it?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Being surprised at the fact that the universe
is fine tuned for life is akin to a puddle being
surprised at how well it fits its hole"
-- Douglas Adams
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Proof?? |
21 Nov 2004 08:53:38 PM |
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On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 00:35:33 GMT, "Saville" <saville@uk.com> said in
alt.atheism:
I'm not talking about belief!
Its about evidence for Gods existence or
evidence for Gods non-existence!
Can it be proven, one way or the other??
Nothing can be proved to not exist, unless you limit it severely.
Prove that no birds with blue feathers exist. (There are birds whose
feathers reflect blue light more than any other color but, if you boil
the feathers in a solvent, there's no blue in them. Clear glass
prisms also "create" blue light, but they aren't blue.) Prove that no
birds with blue feathers exist in your bathroom? Easy.
Same with gods. Prove that no god exists? Impossible. Prove that
one DOES exist? Piece of cake. If he smacks you on the head you have
your proof.
--
"Christians, it is needless to say, utterly detest each other. They slander each
other constantly with the vilest forms of abuse and cannot come to any sort of
agreement in their teachings. Each sect brands its own, fills the head of its own
with deceitful nonsense, and makes perfect little pigs of those it wins over to its
side."
- Celsus On the True Doctrine, translated by R. Joseph Hoffman, Oxford University Press, 1987
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Apostate" |
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| Title: Re: Proof?? |
21 Nov 2004 07:04:14 PM |
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On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 00:35:33 GMT, "Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95A8C306388ECfstone69@207.69.189.191...
"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in news:VT9od.2354$h_.192@newsfe3-
gui.ntli.net:
Hi All,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be accepted.
that, we cannot prove that God exists!
If this is the case, then how can we prove
that God dose 'not' exist?
Saville.
Why would we care?
If there is no proof that it does exist, why believe anyway?
--
Fred Stone
Hi Fred,
I'm not talking about belief!
Its about evidence for Gods existence or
evidence for Gods non-existence!
Can it be proven, one way or the other??
Saville,
We need to know, why?
You'd have something much more interesting to say, if you had the proof,
"one way".
--
/Apostate
atheist #1931 I've found it!
BAAWA Knife AND SMASHer
EAC Supernumerary Deputy Director, Department of Redundancy Department
plonked by Lani_girl, first post; Billions Served!
I doubt, therefore I might be.
For e-mail, hold that tiger!
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Proof?? |
22 Nov 2004 02:12:07 PM |
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On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 00:35:33 GMT, "Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95A8C306388ECfstone69@207.69.189.191...
"Saville" <saville@uk.com> wrote in news:VT9od.2354$h_.192@newsfe3-
gui.ntli.net:
Hi All,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be accepted.
that, we cannot prove that God exists!
If this is the case, then how can we prove
that God dose 'not' exist?
Saville.
Why would we care?
If there is no proof that it does exist, why believe anyway?
--
Fred Stone
Hi Fred,
I'm not talking about belief!
Its about evidence for Gods existence or
evidence for Gods non-existence!
Can it be proven, one way or the other??
Sure, g-o-d is only existant as an empty letter string.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
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