Religions > Atheism > Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Henry Cotter" |
| Date: |
17 Dec 2003 02:11:14 AM |
| Object: |
Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
A PRACTICAL MAN'S PROOF OF GOD
The existence of God is a subject that has occupied schools of
philosophy and theology for thousands of years. Most of the time,
these debates have revolved around all kinds of assumptions and
definitions. Philosophers will spend a lifetime arguing about the
meaning of a word and never really get there. One is reminded of the
college student who was asked how his philosophy class was going. He
replied that they had not done much because when the teacher tried to
call roll, the kids kept arguing about whether they existed or not.
Most of us who live and work in the real world do not concern
ourselves with such activities. We realize that such discussions may
have value and interest in the academic world, but the stress and
pressure of day-to-day life forces us to deal with a very pragmatic
way of making decisions. If I ask you to prove to me that you have
$2.00, you would show it to me. Even in more abstract things we use
common sense and practical reasoning. If I ask you whether a certain
person is honest or not, you do not flood the air with dissertations
on the relative nature of honesty; you would give me evidence one way
or the other. The techniques of much of the philosophical arguments
that go on would eliminate most of engineering and technology if they
were applied in those fields.
The purpose of this brief study is to offer a logical, practical,
pragmatic proof of the existence of God from a purely scientific
perspective. To do this, we are assuming that we exist, that there is
reality, and that the matter of which we are made is real. If you do
not believe that you exist, you have bigger problems than this study
will entail and you will have to look elsewhere.
THE BEGINNING
If we do exist, there are only two possible explanations as to how our
existence came to be. Either we had a beginning or we did not have a
beginning. The Bible says, "In the beginning God created the heaven
and the earth" (Genesis 1 :1). The atheist has always maintained that
there was no beginning. The idea is that matter has always existed in
the form of either matter or energy; and all that has happened is that
matter has been changed from form to
form, but it has always been. The Humanist Manifesto says, "Matter is
self-existing and not created," and that is a concise statement of the
atheist's belief.
The way we decide whether the atheist is correct or not is to see what
science has discovered about this question. The picture below on the
left represents our part of the cosmos. Each of the disk shaped
objects is a galaxy like our Milky Way. All of these galaxies are
moving relative to each other. Their movement has a very distinct
pattern which causes the distance between the galaxies to get greater
with every passing day. If we had three galaxies located at positions
A, B. and C in the second diagram below, and if they are located as
shown, tomorrow they will be further apart. The triangle they form
will be bigger. The day after tomorrow the triangle will be bigger
yet. We live in an expanding universe that gets bigger and bigger and
bigger with every passing day.
Now let us suppose that we made time run backwards! If we are located
at a certain distance today, then yesterday we were closer together.
The day before that, we were still closer. Ultimately, where must all
the galaxies have been? At a point! At the beginning! At what
scientists call a singularity!
A second proof is seen in the energy sources that fuel the cosmos. The
picture to the right is a picture of the sun. Like all stars, the sun
generates its energy by a nuclear process known as thermonuclear
fusion. Every second that passes, the sun compresses 564 million tons
of hydrogen into 560 million tons of helium with 4 million tons of
matter released as energy. In spite of that tremendous consumption of
fuel, the sun has only used up 2% of the hydrogen it had the day it
came into existence. This incredible furnace is not a process confined
to the sun. Every star in the sky generates its energy in the same
way. Throughout the cosmos there are 25 quintillion stars, each
converting hydrogen into helium, thereby reducing the total amount of
hydrogen in the cosmos. Just think about it! If everywhere in the
cosmos hydrogen is being consumed and if the process has been going on
forever, how much hydrogen should be left?
Suppose I attempt to drive my automobile without putting any more gas
(fuel) into it. As I drive and drive, what is eventually going to
happen? I am going to run out of gas I If the cosmos has been here
forever, we would have run out of hydrogen long ago! The fact is,
however, that the sun still has 98% of its original hydrogen. The fact
is that hydrogen is the most abundant material in the universe!
Everywhere we look in space we can see the hydrogen 21 cm line in the
spectrum_a piece of light only given off by hydrogen. This could not
be unless we had a beginning!
A third scientific proof that the atheist is wrong is seen in the
second law of thermodynamics. In any closed system, things tend to
become disordered. If an automobile is driven for years and years
without repair, for example, it will become so disordered that it
would not run any more. Getting old is simple conformity to the second
law of thermodynamics. In space, things also get old. Astronomers
refer to the aging process as heat death. If the cosmos is "everything
that ever was or is or ever will be," as Dr. Carl Sagan is so fond of
saying, nothing could be added to it to improve its order or repair
it. Even a universe that expands and collapses and expands again
forever would die because it would lose light and heat each time it
expanded and rebounded.
The atheist's assertion that matter/energy is eternal is
scientifically wrong. The biblical assertion that there was a
beginning is scientifically correct.
THE CAUSE
If we know the creation has a beginning, we are faced with another
logical question_was the creation caused or was it not caused? The
Bible states, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
Not only does the Bible maintain that there was a cause_a creation_but
it also tells us what the cause was. It was God. The atheist tells us
that "matter is self-existing and not created." If matter had a
beginning and yet was uncaused, one must logically maintain that
something would have had to come into existence out of nothing. From
empty space with no force, no matter, no energy, and no intelligence,
matter would have to become existent. Even if this could happen by
some strange new process unknown to science today, there is a logical
problem.
In order for matter to come out of nothing, all of our scientific laws
dealing with the conservation of matter/energy would have to be wrong,
invalidating all of chemistry. All of our laws of conservation of
angular momentum would have to be wrong, invalidating all of physics.
All of our laws of conservation of electric charge would have to be
wrong, invalidating all of electronics and demanding that your TV set
not work!! Your television set may not work, but that is not the
reason! In order to believe matter is uncaused, one has to discard
known laws and principles of science. No reasonable person is going to
do this simply to maintain a personal atheistic position.
The atheist's assertion that matter is eternal is wrong. The atheist's
assertion that the universe is uncaused and selfexisting is also
incorrect The Bible's assertion that there was a beginning which was
caused is supported strongly by the available scientific evidence.
THE DESIGN
If we know that the creation had a beginning and we know that the
beginning was caused, there is one last question for us to
answer--what was the cause? The Bible tells us that God was the cause.
We are further told that the God who did the causing did so with
planning and reason and logic. Romans 1:20 tells us that we can know
God is
"through the things he has made." The atheist, on the other hand, will
try to convince us that we are the product of chance. Julian Huxley
once said:
We are as much a product of blind forces as is the falling of a stone
to earth or the ebb and flow of the tides. We have just happened, and
man was made flesh by a long series of singularly beneficial
accidents.
The subject of design has been one that has been explored in many
different ways. For most of us, simply looking at our newborn child is
enough to rule out chance. Modern-day scientists like Paul Davies and
Frederick Hoyle and others are raising elaborate objections to the use
of chance in explaining natural phenomena. A principle of modern
science has emerged in the 1980s called "the anthropic principle." The
basic thrust of the anthropic principle is that chance is simply not a
valid mechanism to explain the atom or life. If chance is not valid,
we are constrained to reject Huxley's claim and to realize that we are
the product of an intelligent God.
THE NEXT STEP
We have seen a practical proof of God's existence in this brief study.
A flood of questions arise at this point. Which God are we talking
about? Where did God come from? Why did God create us? How did God
create us?
All of these and many more are answered in the same way_by looking at
the evidence in a practical, common sense way. If you are interested
in pursuing these things in more detail, we invite you to contact us.
We have books, audio tapes, video tapes, correspondence courses, and
booklets available and all can be obtained on loan without cost. Just
request our catalog from:
DOES GOD EXIST?
718 E. Donmoyer Ave.
South Bend IN 46614-1999
REFERENCES:
Hoyle, Frederick, The Intelligent Universe, Holt, Rinehart & Winston,
1983.
Humanist Manifesto I and 11, Prometheus Books, 700 East Amherst St.,
Buffalo, NY 14215, 1985.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Back to Does God Exist?
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| User: "Ubiquitous" |
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| Title: Re: Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
29 Dec 2003 06:31:22 PM |
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
18 Dec 2003 12:49:15 PM |
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"Henry Cotter" <henry_cotter@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9f6d7e77.0312170011.4da81f88@posting.google.com...
A PRACTICAL MAN'S PROOF OF GOD
The existence of God is a subject that has occupied schools of
philosophy and theology for thousands of years. Most of the time,
these debates have revolved around all kinds of assumptions and
definitions. Philosophers will spend a lifetime arguing about the
meaning of a word and never really get there. One is reminded of the
college student who was asked how his philosophy class was going. He
replied that they had not done much because when the teacher tried to
call roll, the kids kept arguing about whether they existed or not.
Most of us who live and work in the real world do not concern
ourselves with such activities. We realize that such discussions may
have value and interest in the academic world, but the stress and
pressure of day-to-day life forces us to deal with a very pragmatic
way of making decisions. If I ask you to prove to me that you have
$2.00, you would show it to me.
So rather than simply showing us this god, you provide a dissertation, a
thing you criticize from other people.
So, point at the god so we all can see that it's there. Should be simple.
Unless it doesn't exist.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
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| User: "WayneandMaureen" |
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| Title: Re: Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
18 Dec 2003 04:21:49 PM |
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"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message
news:hoWdndcuv_MKgn-iRVn-tA@io.com...
"Henry Cotter" <henry_cotter@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9f6d7e77.0312170011.4da81f88@posting.google.com...
Snip unacceptable proof>>>>>
So rather than simply showing us this god, you provide a dissertation, a
thing you criticize from other people.
So, point at the god so we all can see that it's there. Should be simple.
Unless it doesn't exist.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
To prove the existence of self beyond the expectations of others......
proves the existence of God.
wayne
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
18 Dec 2003 04:05:36 PM |
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Denis Loubet wrote:
So, point at the god so we all can see that it's there. Should be simple.
Unless it doesn't exist.
You do understand the groups that you are posting to, that your reply is
off topic?
atheism , might be on topic.
dnd, there is believe in manys gos, most fictional
army, the might believe or not, however I suspect (espcially those in
war zones, praying to anyone or thing).
aa, does tend to believe in a higher power, though not always a god,
however even here the post appears to be off topic.
It might be on topic in politics because religion (or lack of one) can
shape and effect politics.
--
news:alt.pagan FAQ at http://www.dmcom.net/bard/altpag.txt
news:alt.religion.wicca FAQ at http://www.dmcom.net/bard/arwfaq2.txt
news:news.groups FAQ at http://www.dmcom.net/bard/ngfaq.txt
Want a new group FAQs http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/ncreate.html
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| User: "Sorcier" |
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| Title: Re: Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
18 Dec 2003 01:14:10 PM |
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Denis Loubet wrote:
So, point at the god so we all can see that it's there. Should be simple.
Unless it doesn't exist.
Point at the President.
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
19 Dec 2003 04:23:07 PM |
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"Sorcier" <sNoErMiOer@cavtel.net> wrote in message
news:3FE1FC82.5705@cavtel.net...
Denis Loubet wrote:
So, point at the god so we all can see that it's there. Should be
simple.
Unless it doesn't exist.
Point at the President.
Of course you are perfectly free to deliberately misunderstand the point of
any post you choose to respond to, but be aware such tactics do not promote
reasoned discourse.
I can point to the president on the television, I can point to his photo in
the newspaper, I can point to the massive documentation of his existence
that issues from friend and enemy alike. By pointing, I'm talking about
pointing at the body of hard evidence in favor of whatever it is at issue.
There are no "a-presidentists" because everyone can agree that the existence
of a human being is not an extraordinary claim. The claim of a big invisible
and immaterial man that created the universe IS an extraordinary claim, and
if you want people to agree with you that it exists, you'd better be
prepared to point the thing out.
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
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| User: "Sorcier" |
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| Title: Re: Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
19 Dec 2003 12:15:54 PM |
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Denis Loubet wrote:
"Sorcier" <sNoErMiOer@cavtel.net> wrote in message
news:3FE1FC82.5705@cavtel.net...
Denis Loubet wrote:
So, point at the god so we all can see that it's there. Should be
simple.
Unless it doesn't exist.
Point at the President.
Of course you are perfectly free to deliberately misunderstand the point of
any post you choose to respond to, but be aware such tactics do not promote
reasoned discourse.
I can point to the president on the television, I can point to his photo in
the newspaper, I can point to the massive documentation of his existence
that issues from friend and enemy alike.
Likewise for God.
By pointing, I'm talking about
pointing at the body of hard evidence in favor of whatever it is at issue.
Then say that.
Don't take me to task for not being psychic enough to realize you were
using shorthand.
There are no "a-presidentists" because everyone can agree that the existence
of a human being is not an extraordinary claim.
False.
There are "a-Presidents".
You and I likely think most of them are nuts, but still.
The claim of a big invisible
and immaterial man that created the universe IS an extraordinary claim, and
if you want people to agree with you that it exists, you'd better be
prepared to point the thing out.
Sorry, but the idea of _ONE_ man having the degree of power ascribed to
the
US President is also somewhat extraordinary.
As is the presumed methodology by which he got there.
We are asked to accept a lot on trust to believe in such a person.
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| User: "scooter the mighty" |
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| Title: Re: Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
20 Dec 2003 06:48:34 PM |
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"Sorcier" <sNoErMiOer@cavtel.net> wrote in message
news:3FE3405A.74DE@cavtel.net...
Denis Loubet wrote:
"Sorcier" <sNoErMiOer@cavtel.net> wrote in message
news:3FE1FC82.5705@cavtel.net...
Denis Loubet wrote:
So, point at the god so we all can see that it's there. Should be
simple.
Unless it doesn't exist.
Point at the President.
Of course you are perfectly free to deliberately misunderstand the point
of
any post you choose to respond to, but be aware such tactics do not
promote
reasoned discourse.
I can point to the president on the television, I can point to his photo
in
the newspaper, I can point to the massive documentation of his existence
that issues from friend and enemy alike.
Likewise for God.
OK, so do it. Where can we find God's photo in the newspaper?
False.
There are "a-Presidents".
You and I likely think most of them are nuts, but still.
Name three of them.
The claim of a big invisible
and immaterial man that created the universe IS an extraordinary claim,
and
if you want people to agree with you that it exists, you'd better be
prepared to point the thing out.
Sorry, but the idea of _ONE_ man having the degree of power ascribed to
the
US President is also somewhat extraordinary.
Bull pats. It happens all the time.
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| User: "Malachias Invictus" |
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| Title: Re: Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
22 Dec 2003 09:58:22 AM |
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"scooter the mighty" <scooter@spambait.com> wrote in message
news:vu9rf034ve163@corp.supernews.com...
"Sorcier" <sNoErMiOer@cavtel.net> wrote:
Denis Loubet wrote:
I can point to the president on the television, I can point to his
photo
in
the newspaper, I can point to the massive documentation of his
existence
that issues from friend and enemy alike.
Likewise for God.
OK, so do it. Where can we find God's photo in the newspaper?
Weekly World News ;-)
--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.
from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
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| User: "Sorcier" |
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| Title: Re: Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
20 Dec 2003 09:07:06 AM |
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Malachias Invictus wrote:
"scooter the mighty" <scooter@spambait.com> wrote in message
news:vu9rf034ve163@corp.supernews.com...
"Sorcier" <sNoErMiOer@cavtel.net> wrote:
Denis Loubet wrote:
I can point to the president on the television, I can point to his
photo
in
the newspaper, I can point to the massive documentation of his
existence
that issues from friend and enemy alike.
Likewise for God.
OK, so do it. Where can we find God's photo in the newspaper?
Weekly World News ;-)
Among others.
Thanks, Mal. <g>
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| User: "Sorcier" |
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| Title: Re: Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
20 Dec 2003 09:06:27 AM |
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scooter the mighty wrote:
OK, so do it. Where can we find God's photo in the newspaper?
Have you looked?
False.
There are "a-Presidents".
You and I likely think most of them are nuts, but still.
Name three of them.
Would their names have meaning to you?
Sorry, but the idea of _ONE_ man having the degree of power ascribed to
the
US President is also somewhat extraordinary.
Bull pats. It happens all the time.
Prove it.
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
20 Dec 2003 04:22:19 PM |
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"Sorcier" <sNoErMiOer@cavtel.net> wrote in message
news:3FE3405A.74DE@cavtel.net...
Denis Loubet wrote:
"Sorcier" <sNoErMiOer@cavtel.net> wrote in message
news:3FE1FC82.5705@cavtel.net...
Denis Loubet wrote:
So, point at the god so we all can see that it's there. Should be
simple.
Unless it doesn't exist.
Point at the President.
Of course you are perfectly free to deliberately misunderstand the point
of
any post you choose to respond to, but be aware such tactics do not
promote
reasoned discourse.
I can point to the president on the television, I can point to his photo
in
the newspaper, I can point to the massive documentation of his existence
that issues from friend and enemy alike.
Likewise for God.
You've seen god on television, and seen a photo of it?
You're lying.
By pointing, I'm talking about
pointing at the body of hard evidence in favor of whatever it is at
issue.
Then say that.
Don't take me to task for not being psychic enough to realize you were
using shorthand.
Dude, the trolling originator of this thread set all that down on paper.
Henry Cotter trolled alt atheism, and a bunch of other unfortunate
newsgroups, with this description of his preferred standard of evidence:
"Most of us who live and work in the real world do not concern
ourselves with such activities. We realize that such discussions may
have value and interest in the academic world, but the stress and
pressure of day-to-day life forces us to deal with a very pragmatic
way of making decisions. If I ask you to prove to me that you have
$2.00, you would show it to me. Even in more abstract things we use
common sense and practical reasoning. If I ask you whether a certain
person is honest or not, you do not flood the air with dissertations
on the relative nature of honesty; you would give me evidence one way
or the other. The techniques of much of the philosophical arguments
that go on would eliminate most of engineering and technology if they
were applied in those fields."
But then he started on a dissertation concerning the existence of god,
exactly the kind of dessertation he was criticizing being presented by
others. I simply asked him to provide the same level of evidence for his god
that he asks for in the above paragraph.
You responded by deliberatly misunderstanding my request.
There are no "a-presidentists" because everyone can agree that the
existence
of a human being is not an extraordinary claim.
False.
There are "a-Presidents".
You and I likely think most of them are nuts, but still.
More deliberate misunderstanding and dodging of the point.
My point stands.
The claim of a big invisible
and immaterial man that created the universe IS an extraordinary claim,
and
if you want people to agree with you that it exists, you'd better be
prepared to point the thing out.
Sorry, but the idea of _ONE_ man having the degree of power ascribed to
the
US President is also somewhat extraordinary.
And I can point it out if I so desire.
As is the presumed methodology by which he got there.
We are asked to accept a lot on trust to believe in such a person.
No. We are not. You're lying again.
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
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| User: "Chris" |
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| Title: Re: Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
20 Dec 2003 10:03:51 PM |
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"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message news:<K5mdnZ8GZ-WeUHmiRVn-hQ@io.com>...
You're lying.
No. We are not. You're lying again.
Justin? Is that you?
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| User: "Chris" |
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| Title: Re: Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
20 Dec 2003 10:03:51 PM |
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"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message news:<K5mdnZ8GZ-WeUHmiRVn-hQ@io.com>...
You're lying.
No. We are not. You're lying again.
Justin? Is that you?
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| User: "Sorcier" |
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| Title: Re: Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
20 Dec 2003 09:04:58 AM |
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Chris wrote:
"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in message news:<K5mdnZ8GZ-WeUHmiRVn-hQ@io.com>...
You're lying.
No. We are not. You're lying again.
Justin? Is that you?
ROTFL.
Thanks!
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| User: "Sorcier" |
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| Title: Re: Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
20 Dec 2003 09:04:33 AM |
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Denis Loubet wrote:
"Sorcier" <sNoErMiOer@cavtel.net> wrote in message
news:3FE3405A.74DE@cavtel.net...
Likewise for God.
You've seen god on television, and seen a photo of it?
Yes.
You're lying.
No.
Just obfuscating.
Then say that.
Don't take me to task for not being psychic enough to realize you were
using shorthand.
Dude, the trolling originator of this thread set all that down on paper.
I was addressing him.
And neither were you.
But then he started on a dissertation concerning the existence of god,
exactly the kind of dessertation he was criticizing being presented by
others. I simply asked him to provide the same level of evidence for his god
that he asks for in the above paragraph.
You responded by deliberatly misunderstanding my request.
Again, you made a very simply worded request that didn't contain the
level
of context you now claim it did.
There are no "a-presidentists" because everyone can agree that the
existence
of a human being is not an extraordinary claim.
False.
There are "a-Presidents".
You and I likely think most of them are nuts, but still.
More deliberate misunderstanding and dodging of the point.
Expansion, not dodging.
Sorry, but the idea of _ONE_ man having the degree of power ascribed to
the
US President is also somewhat extraordinary.
And I can point it out if I so desire.
Likewise for God.
As is the presumed methodology by which he got there.
We are asked to accept a lot on trust to believe in such a person.
No. We are not. You're lying again.
Nope, you're assuming your standard of proof is _the_ standard of proof.
I'll buy that once you prove that _you_ are God.
By my standard of proof, we're asked to accept a lot to believe almost
anything.
That doesn't make me a liar.
It simply means we view "proof" differently.
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| User: "Jeffrey Turner" |
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| Title: Re: Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
20 Dec 2003 04:33:49 AM |
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Sorcier wrote:
Denis Loubet wrote:
I can point to the president on the television, I can point to his photo in
the newspaper, I can point to the massive documentation of his existence
that issues from friend and enemy alike.
Likewise for God.
God was on television? What were god's Nielsens? Will god be back
next season?
--Jeff
--
"I don't mind being characterized as a 'liberal'
- I just don't happen to believe it's true."
Howard Dean
A Dean supporter is just a Democrat who hasn't
listened to Kucinich.
http://www.kucinich.us/
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| User: "Arivne" |
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| Title: Re: Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
21 Dec 2003 02:08:44 AM |
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Jeffrey Turner <jturner@localnet.com> wrote:
Sorcier wrote:
Denis Loubet wrote:
I can point to the president on the television, I can point to
his photo in the newspaper, I can point to the massive
documentation of his existence that issues from friend and
enemy alike.
Likewise for God.
God was on television?
http://www.joanofarcadia.com
http://www.joanofarcadia.com/news
http://www.joanofarcadia.com/news/0085.shtml
What were god's Nielsens?
http://www.joanofarcadia.com/news/0070.shtml
Will god be back next season?
If the ratings stay up.
Arivne
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| User: "scooter the mighty" |
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| Title: Re: Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
21 Dec 2003 01:26:59 PM |
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"Arivne" <arivne@cox.net> wrote in message
news:3ca79050.0312210008.a92926d@posting.google.com...
Jeffrey Turner <jturner@localnet.com> wrote:
Sorcier wrote:
Denis Loubet wrote:
I can point to the president on the television, I can point to
his photo in the newspaper, I can point to the massive
documentation of his existence that issues from friend and
enemy alike.
Likewise for God.
God was on television?
http://www.joanofarcadia.com
http://www.joanofarcadia.com/news
http://www.joanofarcadia.com/news/0085.shtml
That is a religious TV show, but I don't she God in the credits.
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| User: "Chris" |
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| Title: Re: Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
22 Dec 2003 02:44:25 PM |
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"scooter the mighty" <scooter@spambait.com> wrote in message news:<vubt01e78f8a0@corp.supernews.com>...
"Arivne" <arivne@cox.net> wrote in message
news:3ca79050.0312210008.a92926d@posting.google.com...
Jeffrey Turner <jturner@localnet.com> wrote:
Sorcier wrote:
Denis Loubet wrote:
I can point to the president on the television, I can point to
his photo in the newspaper, I can point to the massive
documentation of his existence that issues from friend and
enemy alike.
Likewise for God.
God was on television?
http://www.joanofarcadia.com
http://www.joanofarcadia.com/news
http://www.joanofarcadia.com/news/0085.shtml
That is a religious TV show, but I don't she God in the credits.
Well, duh. God is *very* humble, you know.
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| User: "Sorcier" |
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| Title: Re: Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
20 Dec 2003 09:09:40 AM |
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scooter the mighty wrote:
God was on television?
http://www.joanofarcadia.com
http://www.joanofarcadia.com/news
http://www.joanofarcadia.com/news/0085.shtml
That is a religious TV show, but I don't she God in the credits.
Backpedal! <G>
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| User: "Sorcier" |
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| Title: Re: Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
20 Dec 2003 09:09:14 AM |
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Arivne wrote:
Jeffrey Turner <jturner@localnet.com> wrote:
Sorcier wrote:
Denis Loubet wrote:
I can point to the president on the television, I can point to
his photo in the newspaper, I can point to the massive
documentation of his existence that issues from friend and
enemy alike.
Likewise for God.
God was on television?
http://www.joanofarcadia.com
http://www.joanofarcadia.com/news
http://www.joanofarcadia.com/news/0085.shtml
I love you guys!
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| User: "Sorcier" |
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| Title: Re: Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
19 Dec 2003 06:20:27 PM |
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Jeffrey Turner wrote:
Sorcier wrote:
Denis Loubet wrote:
I can point to the president on the television, I can point to his photo in
the newspaper, I can point to the massive documentation of his existence
that issues from friend and enemy alike.
Likewise for God.
God was on television? What were god's Nielsens? Will god be back
next season?
From what I've heard: Yes, above average, and yes.
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| User: "Virtualoso" |
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| Title: Re: Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
19 Dec 2003 07:02:37 PM |
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In article <AbidnbwyJ8nrDn6iRVn-iw@io.com>, Denis Loubet
<dloubet@io.com> wrote:
Of course you are perfectly free to deliberately misunderstand the point ....
The claim of a big invisible and immaterial man that created the universe
IS an extraordinary claim...
Of course you are perfectly free to deliberately misunderstand and
mischaracterize the claim.
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
20 Dec 2003 04:24:59 PM |
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"Virtualoso" <virtualoso@dot.com> wrote in message
news:191220031702376727%virtualoso@dot.com...
In article <AbidnbwyJ8nrDn6iRVn-iw@io.com>, Denis Loubet
<dloubet@io.com> wrote:
Of course you are perfectly free to deliberately misunderstand the point
.....
The claim of a big invisible and immaterial man that created the
universe
IS an extraordinary claim...
Of course you are perfectly free to deliberately misunderstand and
mischaracterize the claim.
Hey, I've had it described to me in that manner by Christians, as well as in
a host of other contradictory manners. I had to pick one. It is not my fault
if Christians cannot keep their stories straight.
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
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| User: "Sorcier" |
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| Title: Re: Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
19 Dec 2003 12:16:34 PM |
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Virtualoso wrote:
In article <AbidnbwyJ8nrDn6iRVn-iw@io.com>, Denis Loubet
<dloubet@io.com> wrote:
Of course you are perfectly free to deliberately misunderstand the point ....
The claim of a big invisible and immaterial man that created the universe
IS an extraordinary claim...
Of course you are perfectly free to deliberately misunderstand and
mischaracterize the claim.
ROTFL.
I should have gone there!
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| User: "First Prophet of Kaos" |
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| Title: Re: Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
19 Dec 2003 08:21:54 PM |
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On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 16:23:07 -0600, "Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com>
wrote:
"Sorcier" <sNoErMiOer@cavtel.net> wrote in message
news:3FE1FC82.5705@cavtel.net...
Denis Loubet wrote:
So, point at the god so we all can see that it's there. Should be
simple.
Unless it doesn't exist.
Point at the President.
Of course you are perfectly free to deliberately misunderstand the point of
any post you choose to respond to, but be aware such tactics do not promote
reasoned discourse.
The nature of this crosspost stands in the way of reasoned discourse.
Rather than having to deal with just the local kooks trying to twist
the conversation in thirty different directions at once, you must also
deal with imported kooks from 4 different locales.
--
When in doubt, RTFM.
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| User: "Sorcier" |
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| Title: Re: Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
19 Dec 2003 12:19:03 PM |
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First Prophet of Kaos wrote:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 16:23:07 -0600, "Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com>
wrote:
Of course you are perfectly free to deliberately misunderstand the point of
any post you choose to respond to, but be aware such tactics do not promote
reasoned discourse.
The nature of this crosspost stands in the way of reasoned discourse.
Rather than having to deal with just the local kooks trying to twist
the conversation in thirty different directions at once, you must also
deal with imported kooks from 4 different locales.
The nature of this thread stands in the way of reasonable discourse.
It was a troll from the start, and should be treated as, at best, a
source of entertainment.
Only a kook would take it seriously. <g>
So, K., do we have thirty times 4, or 30 to the 4th power?
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| User: "First Prophet of Kaos" |
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| Title: Re: Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
20 Dec 2003 12:59:55 AM |
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On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 13:19:03 -0500, Sorcier <sNoErMiOer@cavtel.net>
wrote:
First Prophet of Kaos wrote:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 16:23:07 -0600, "Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com>
wrote:
Of course you are perfectly free to deliberately misunderstand the point of
any post you choose to respond to, but be aware such tactics do not promote
reasoned discourse.
The nature of this crosspost stands in the way of reasoned discourse.
Rather than having to deal with just the local kooks trying to twist
the conversation in thirty different directions at once, you must also
deal with imported kooks from 4 different locales.
The nature of this thread stands in the way of reasonable discourse.
It was a troll from the start, and should be treated as, at best, a
source of entertainment.
Only a kook would take it seriously. <g>
So, K., do we have thirty times 4, or 30 to the 4th power?
We actually have 5xy where 'x' is the number of kooks in each
newsgroup and y is dependant on the creativity and dementia of the
kooks involved; 30 was just a hyperbolic value for y that I pulled
out of my *****.
--
When in doubt, RTFM.
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| User: "Justisaur" |
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| Title: Re: Proof of God's Existence for the Atheist Fundies out there |
19 Dec 2003 03:08:49 PM |
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Sorcier wrote:
Denis Loubet wrote:
So, point at the god so we all can see that it's there. Should be simple.
Unless it doesn't exist.
Point at the President.
I think that's more proof of conspiracy than of god...
--
- Justisaur -
check http://justisaur.tripod.com/well.htm for my encounter generator,
xp calculator, and other usefull documents.
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