| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jason" |
| Date: |
14 May 2007 03:58:54 PM |
| Object: |
Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
Some atheists also seem to also hate free speech.
Monday, May 7, 2007 2:06 p.m. EDT
Professor Forced Out for Citing George Washington
A tenured college professor is set to be fired for simply sending out an
e-mail to colleagues containing George Washingtonıs "Thanksgiving Day
Proclamation of 1789.²
Already professor Walter Kehowski at Glendale Community College in Arizona
has been placed on forced administrative leave and the schoolıs chief has
recommended his termination.
"It simply boggles the mind that a professor could find himself facing
termination simply for e-mailing the Thanksgiving address of our first
president,² said Greg Lukianoff, president of the Foundation for
Individual Rights in Education (FIRE).
On Nov. 22, 2006, the day before Thanksgiving, Kehowski, a professor in
mathematics in the Maricopa County Community College District (MCCCD) sent
the e-mail containing Washingtonıs message to all MCCCD employees, using a
district-wide service designated for "announcements.²
Story Continues Below
Within weeks, five MCCCD employees filed harassment charges against
Kehowski, claiming his message was "hostile² and "derogatory.² They
complaining employees also cited the fact that the e-mail contained a link
to Pat Buchananıs Web site, where Kehowski had found Washingtonıs
proclamation. Buchanan, a conservative commentator, had also posted to his
Web site criticisms of immigration policies.
On Jan. 3, 2007, MCCCD found that Kehowski was guilty of violating
policies limiting e-mail usage to messages that "support education,
research, scholarly communication, administration, and other MCCCD
business.²
These policies also prohibit "mailings to large numbers of people that
contain unwanted solicitations or information.²
However, MCCCD employees commonly use the "announcements² service to send
out unsolicited information, according to a statement from FIRE.
On March 9, MCCCD Chancellor Rufus Glasper placed Kehowski on
administrative leave and recommended to the MCCCD governing board that he
be dismissed. Kehowski has since appealed that decision and will defend
himself at a hearing before a panel of three faculty members on June 5.
Kehowski contacted FIRE for help, and FIRE wrote to Glasper on April 25 to
protest the actions against Kehowski, asserting that e-mailing a
proclamation from George Washington or including a link to Pat Buchananıs
Web site does not constitute punishable harassment.
FIRE reminded Glasper that the U.S. Supreme Court has held that for
workplace expression to be considered "harassment,² it must be "severe or
pervasive enough to create an objectively hostile or abusive work
environment.²
Sending a link to a Web site, which readers can either visit or simply
ignore, does not fit this standard, FIRE maintains.
Glasper responded with a letter on April 30, but failed to address any of
FIREıs concerns, according to the groupıs statement.
"It is dark day for free speech and common sense in Arizona,² Lukianoff said.
"If the MCCCD believes at all in the importance of the right to free
expression, or even just in basic fairness, it will undo its illiberal
actions and exonerate professor Kehowski immediately.
"This situation is an embarrassment to MCCCD and would be laughable if a
professorıs most basic rights and very livelihood werenıt on the line.²
.
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
14 May 2007 05:41:57 PM |
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Jason wrote:
In article <loqdnQDKCtekS9XbnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@giganews.com>, "Geoff"
<gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote:
Jason wrote:
Some atheists also seem to also hate free speech.
When this gets picked up by another source other than NewsMax...even
a local Arizona paper...then I'll bother with it.
It will NOT be picked up by liberal newspapers--except for the
newspaper in the city where the college is located.
Got a link?
.
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| User: "Jason" |
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| Title: Re: Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
14 May 2007 07:14:06 PM |
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In article <8LKdnegoreoreNXbnZ2dnUVZ_uqvnZ2d@giganews.com>, "Geoff"
<gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote:
Jason wrote:
In article <loqdnQDKCtekS9XbnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@giganews.com>, "Geoff"
<gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote:
Jason wrote:
Some atheists also seem to also hate free speech.
When this gets picked up by another source other than NewsMax...even
a local Arizona paper...then I'll bother with it.
It will NOT be picked up by liberal newspapers--except for the
newspaper in the city where the college is located.
Got a link?
No--I found the story on a website. I should have stated that I was
guessing that the story was printed in the newspaper in the city where the
college is located. There is a state college in the town where I live. I
see lots of stories in the local newspaper about college related issues.
Those stories are not AP stories--just local stories. I would not find
those same stories in USA Today or the Wall Street Journal.
.
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
14 May 2007 08:40:00 PM |
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Jason wrote:
In article <8LKdnegoreoreNXbnZ2dnUVZ_uqvnZ2d@giganews.com>, "Geoff"
<gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote:
Jason wrote:
In article <loqdnQDKCtekS9XbnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@giganews.com>, "Geoff"
<gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote:
Jason wrote:
Some atheists also seem to also hate free speech.
When this gets picked up by another source other than
NewsMax...even a local Arizona paper...then I'll bother with it.
It will NOT be picked up by liberal newspapers--except for the
newspaper in the city where the college is located.
Got a link?
No--I found the story on a website. I should have stated that I was
guessing that the story was printed in the newspaper in the city
where the college is located. There is a state college in the town
where I live. I see lots of stories in the local newspaper about
college related issues. Those stories are not AP stories--just local
stories. I would not find those same stories in USA Today or the Wall
Street Journal.
Seeing as this is only being seen through the lens of the ultraconservative
web media, I don't think the story really has much credibility yet.
It doesn't stand to reason that a professor would be fired for emailing that
text. Either come up with the whole story or cease your rants.
Regardless, even the ultraright account you cited said absolutely nothing
about atheists. This is undoubtedly a deliberate misrepresentation on your
part.
.
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| User: "Jason" |
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| Title: Re: Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
14 May 2007 10:36:44 PM |
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In article <d4OdnbCh-tLsktTbnZ2dnUVZ_sCinZ2d@giganews.com>, "Geoff"
<gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote:
Jason wrote:
In article <8LKdnegoreoreNXbnZ2dnUVZ_uqvnZ2d@giganews.com>, "Geoff"
<gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote:
Jason wrote:
In article <loqdnQDKCtekS9XbnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@giganews.com>, "Geoff"
<gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote:
Jason wrote:
Some atheists also seem to also hate free speech.
When this gets picked up by another source other than
NewsMax...even a local Arizona paper...then I'll bother with it.
It will NOT be picked up by liberal newspapers--except for the
newspaper in the city where the college is located.
Got a link?
No--I found the story on a website. I should have stated that I was
guessing that the story was printed in the newspaper in the city
where the college is located. There is a state college in the town
where I live. I see lots of stories in the local newspaper about
college related issues. Those stories are not AP stories--just local
stories. I would not find those same stories in USA Today or the Wall
Street Journal.
Seeing as this is only being seen through the lens of the ultraconservative
web media, I don't think the story really has much credibility yet.
It doesn't stand to reason that a professor would be fired for emailing that
text. Either come up with the whole story or cease your rants.
Regardless, even the ultraright account you cited said absolutely nothing
about atheists. This is undoubtedly a deliberate misrepresentation on your
part.
The professor that was fired was interviewed on Fox News. He said that the
professors that complained were outspoken atheists. He also said that some
of the other atheist professors told him that they were NOT offended by
his emails.
.
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
15 May 2007 08:47:55 AM |
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Jason wrote:
Regardless, even the ultraright account you cited said absolutely
nothing about atheists. This is undoubtedly a deliberate
misrepresentation on your part.
The professor that was fired was interviewed on Fox News. He said
that the professors that complained were outspoken atheists. He also
said that some of the other atheist professors told him that they
were NOT offended by his emails.
Even if this is true, this is hearsay and cannot be accepted merely at face
value. Regardless, if it is true, then there may be completely valid reasons
for the dismissal whether or not the emails were offensive.
Come on, Jason...keep working it. So far you're just spinning your wheels
(and your conservative propaganda).
.
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| User: "cactus" |
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| Title: Re: Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
14 May 2007 05:22:07 PM |
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Jason wrote:
Some atheists also seem to also hate free speech.
You have what appears to be an example of someone getting into trouble
for sending a bulk email.
What does this have to do with your assertion?
Monday, May 7, 2007 2:06 p.m. EDT
Professor Forced Out for Citing George Washington
A tenured college professor is set to be fired for simply sending out an
e-mail to colleagues containing George Washingtonıs "Thanksgiving Day
Proclamation of 1789.²
Already professor Walter Kehowski at Glendale Community College in Arizona
has been placed on forced administrative leave and the schoolıs chief has
recommended his termination.
"It simply boggles the mind that a professor could find himself facing
termination simply for e-mailing the Thanksgiving address of our first
president,² said Greg Lukianoff, president of the Foundation for
Individual Rights in Education (FIRE).
On Nov. 22, 2006, the day before Thanksgiving, Kehowski, a professor in
mathematics in the Maricopa County Community College District (MCCCD) sent
the e-mail containing Washingtonıs message to all MCCCD employees, using a
district-wide service designated for "announcements.²
Story Continues Below
Within weeks, five MCCCD employees filed harassment charges against
Kehowski, claiming his message was "hostile² and "derogatory.² They
complaining employees also cited the fact that the e-mail contained a link
to Pat Buchananıs Web site, where Kehowski had found Washingtonıs
proclamation. Buchanan, a conservative commentator, had also posted to his
Web site criticisms of immigration policies.
On Jan. 3, 2007, MCCCD found that Kehowski was guilty of violating
policies limiting e-mail usage to messages that "support education,
research, scholarly communication, administration, and other MCCCD
business.²
These policies also prohibit "mailings to large numbers of people that
contain unwanted solicitations or information.²
However, MCCCD employees commonly use the "announcements² service to send
out unsolicited information, according to a statement from FIRE.
On March 9, MCCCD Chancellor Rufus Glasper placed Kehowski on
administrative leave and recommended to the MCCCD governing board that he
be dismissed. Kehowski has since appealed that decision and will defend
himself at a hearing before a panel of three faculty members on June 5.
Kehowski contacted FIRE for help, and FIRE wrote to Glasper on April 25 to
protest the actions against Kehowski, asserting that e-mailing a
proclamation from George Washington or including a link to Pat Buchananıs
Web site does not constitute punishable harassment.
FIRE reminded Glasper that the U.S. Supreme Court has held that for
workplace expression to be considered "harassment,² it must be "severe or
pervasive enough to create an objectively hostile or abusive work
environment.²
Sending a link to a Web site, which readers can either visit or simply
ignore, does not fit this standard, FIRE maintains.
Glasper responded with a letter on April 30, but failed to address any of
FIREıs concerns, according to the groupıs statement.
"It is dark day for free speech and common sense in Arizona,² Lukianoff said.
"If the MCCCD believes at all in the importance of the right to free
expression, or even just in basic fairness, it will undo its illiberal
actions and exonerate professor Kehowski immediately.
"This situation is an embarrassment to MCCCD and would be laughable if a
professorıs most basic rights and very livelihood werenıt on the line.²
.
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| User: "Jason" |
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| Title: Re: Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
14 May 2007 06:33:17 PM |
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In article <ji52i.21518$JZ3.19284@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net>,
bm1@nonespam.com wrote:
Jason wrote:
Some atheists also seem to also hate free speech.
You have what appears to be an example of someone getting into trouble
for sending a bulk email.
What does this have to do with your assertion?
You would have the read the article. George Washington speech's was
related to his love of God. It's my opinion that the atheists that
complained about the speech were upset because they did not want to
receive email messages about God so they wanted to get the professor fired
that sent them the email. Here is the speech that made the atheists so
upset.
Thanksgiving Proclamation
[New York, 3 October 1789]
Page Image.
By the President of the United States of America, a Proclamation.
Whereas it is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of
Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and
humbly to implore his protection and favor-- and whereas both Houses of
Congress have by their joint Committee requested me to recommend to the
People of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer to be
observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many signal favors of
Almighty God especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to
establish a form of government for their safety and happiness.
Now therefore I do recommend and assign Thursday the 26th day of November
next to be devoted by the People of these States to the service of that
great and glorious Being, who is the beneficent Author of all the good
that was, that is, or that will be-- That we may then all unite in
rendering unto him our sincere and humble thanks--for his kind care and
protection of the People of this Country previous to their becoming a
Nation--for the signal and manifold mercies, and the favorable
interpositions of his Providence which we experienced in the course and
conclusion of the late war--for the great degree of tranquility, union,
and plenty, which we have since enjoyed--for the peaceable and rational
manner, in which we have been enabled to establish constitutions of
government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national One
now lately instituted--for the civil and religious liberty with which we
are blessed; and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful
knowledge; and in general for all the great and various favors which he
hath been pleased to confer upon us.
and also that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and
supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech him to
pardon our national and other transgressions-- to enable us all, whether
in public or private stations, to perform our several and relative duties
properly and punctually--to render our national government a blessing to
all the people, by constantly being a Government of wise, just, and
constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed--to
protect and guide all Sovereigns and Nations (especially such as have
shewn kindness unto us) and to bless them with good government, peace, and
concord--To promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and
virtue, and the encrease of science among them and us--and generally to
grant unto all Mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as he alone
knows to be best.
Given under my hand at the City of New York the third day of October in
the year of our Lord 1789.
Go: Washington
Monday, May 7, 2007 2:06 p.m. EDT
Professor Forced Out for Citing George Washington
A tenured college professor is set to be fired for simply sending out an
e-mail to colleagues containing George Washingtonıs "Thanksgiving Day
Proclamation of 1789.²
Already professor Walter Kehowski at Glendale Community College in Arizona
has been placed on forced administrative leave and the schoolıs chief has
recommended his termination.
"It simply boggles the mind that a professor could find himself facing
termination simply for e-mailing the Thanksgiving address of our first
president,² said Greg Lukianoff, president of the Foundation for
Individual Rights in Education (FIRE).
On Nov. 22, 2006, the day before Thanksgiving, Kehowski, a professor in
mathematics in the Maricopa County Community College District (MCCCD) sent
the e-mail containing Washingtonıs message to all MCCCD employees, using a
district-wide service designated for "announcements.²
Story Continues Below
Within weeks, five MCCCD employees filed harassment charges against
Kehowski, claiming his message was "hostile² and "derogatory.² They
complaining employees also cited the fact that the e-mail contained a link
to Pat Buchananıs Web site, where Kehowski had found Washingtonıs
proclamation. Buchanan, a conservative commentator, had also posted to his
Web site criticisms of immigration policies.
On Jan. 3, 2007, MCCCD found that Kehowski was guilty of violating
policies limiting e-mail usage to messages that "support education,
research, scholarly communication, administration, and other MCCCD
business.²
These policies also prohibit "mailings to large numbers of people that
contain unwanted solicitations or information.²
However, MCCCD employees commonly use the "announcements² service to send
out unsolicited information, according to a statement from FIRE.
On March 9, MCCCD Chancellor Rufus Glasper placed Kehowski on
administrative leave and recommended to the MCCCD governing board that he
be dismissed. Kehowski has since appealed that decision and will defend
himself at a hearing before a panel of three faculty members on June 5.
Kehowski contacted FIRE for help, and FIRE wrote to Glasper on April 25 to
protest the actions against Kehowski, asserting that e-mailing a
proclamation from George Washington or including a link to Pat Buchananıs
Web site does not constitute punishable harassment.
FIRE reminded Glasper that the U.S. Supreme Court has held that for
workplace expression to be considered "harassment,² it must be "severe or
pervasive enough to create an objectively hostile or abusive work
environment.²
Sending a link to a Web site, which readers can either visit or simply
ignore, does not fit this standard, FIRE maintains.
Glasper responded with a letter on April 30, but failed to address any of
FIREıs concerns, according to the groupıs statement.
"It is dark day for free speech and common sense in Arizona,²
Lukianoff said.
"If the MCCCD believes at all in the importance of the right to free
expression, or even just in basic fairness, it will undo its illiberal
actions and exonerate professor Kehowski immediately.
"This situation is an embarrassment to MCCCD and would be laughable if a
professorıs most basic rights and very livelihood werenıt on the line.²
.
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| User: "cactus" |
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| Title: Re: Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
14 May 2007 08:52:09 PM |
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Jason wrote:
In article <ji52i.21518$JZ3.19284@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net>,
bm1@nonespam.com wrote:
Jason wrote:
Some atheists also seem to also hate free speech.
You have what appears to be an example of someone getting into trouble
for sending a bulk email.
What does this have to do with your assertion?
You would have the read the article. George Washington speech's was
related to his love of God.
I read it. It appears to be his proclamation of the Thanksgiving
holiday, couched in the rhetoric of the time. Had he been making that
proclamation this year, he would have written something very different.
And I do not seem him proclaiming his own personal belief, but
speaking in terms that most of the members of his audience would relate to.
It's my opinion that the atheists that
complained about the speech were upset because they did not want to
receive email messages about God so they wanted to get the professor fired
that sent them the email. Here is the speech that made the atheists so
upset.
From the other information posted on the subject I infer that this
professor was bombarding people with unwelcome emails that reflected his
own religious beliefs, and not theirs. He was acting in a rude and
inappropriate fashion. He's getting what he deserves.
He works at an academic institution - he should confine his emails to
matters related to the business of the institution.
<snip>
.
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| User: "Jason" |
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| Title: Re: Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
14 May 2007 10:33:25 PM |
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In article <dn82i.21544$JZ3.17266@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net>,
bm1@nonespam.com wrote:
Jason wrote:
In article <ji52i.21518$JZ3.19284@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net>,
bm1@nonespam.com wrote:
Jason wrote:
Some atheists also seem to also hate free speech.
You have what appears to be an example of someone getting into trouble
for sending a bulk email.
What does this have to do with your assertion?
You would have the read the article. George Washington speech's was
related to his love of God.
I read it. It appears to be his proclamation of the Thanksgiving
holiday, couched in the rhetoric of the time. Had he been making that
proclamation this year, he would have written something very different.
And I do not seem him proclaiming his own personal belief, but
speaking in terms that most of the members of his audience would relate to.
It's my opinion that the atheists that
complained about the speech were upset because they did not want to
receive email messages about God so they wanted to get the professor fired
that sent them the email. Here is the speech that made the atheists so
upset.
From the other information posted on the subject I infer that this
professor was bombarding people with unwelcome emails that reflected his
own religious beliefs, and not theirs. He was acting in a rude and
inappropriate fashion. He's getting what he deserves.
He works at an academic institution - he should confine his emails to
matters related to the business of the institution.
<snip>
Would you feel the same way if a professor was sending all of the other
professors emails related to atheism?
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
15 May 2007 10:03:18 AM |
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"Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Jason-1405072033250001@66-52-22-47.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net...
In article <dn82i.21544$JZ3.17266@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net>,
bm1@nonespam.com wrote:
Jason wrote:
In article <ji52i.21518$JZ3.19284@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net>,
bm1@nonespam.com wrote:
Jason wrote:
Some atheists also seem to also hate free speech.
You have what appears to be an example of someone getting into trouble
for sending a bulk email.
What does this have to do with your assertion?
You would have the read the article. George Washington speech's was
related to his love of God.
I read it. It appears to be his proclamation of the Thanksgiving
holiday, couched in the rhetoric of the time. Had he been making that
proclamation this year, he would have written something very different.
And I do not seem him proclaiming his own personal belief, but
speaking in terms that most of the members of his audience would relate
to.
It's my opinion that the atheists that
complained about the speech were upset because they did not want to
receive email messages about God so they wanted to get the professor
fired
that sent them the email. Here is the speech that made the atheists so
upset.
From the other information posted on the subject I infer that this
professor was bombarding people with unwelcome emails that reflected his
own religious beliefs, and not theirs. He was acting in a rude and
inappropriate fashion. He's getting what he deserves.
He works at an academic institution - he should confine his emails to
matters related to the business of the institution.
<snip>
Would you feel the same way if a professor was sending all of the other
professors emails related to atheism?
Of course. Duh.
That sort of thing doesn't belong in the workplace.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "Martin Phipps" |
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| Title: Re: Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
15 May 2007 03:34:40 AM |
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On May 15, 11:33 am, (Jason) wrote:
In article <dn82i.21544$JZ3.17...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net>
From the other information posted on the subject I infer that this
professor was bombarding people with unwelcome emails that reflected his
own religious beliefs, and not theirs. He was acting in a rude and
inappropriate fashion. He's getting what he deserves.
He works at an academic institution - he should confine his emails to
matters related to the business of the institution.
<snip>
Would you feel the same way if a professor was sending all of the other
professors emails related to atheism?
At least _that_ professor would be spreading the truth!
Martin
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| User: "Martin Phipps" |
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| Title: Re: Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
15 May 2007 03:51:35 AM |
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On May 15, 7:33 am, (Jason) wrote:
In article <ji52i.21518$JZ3.19...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net>,
b...@nonespam.com wrote:
Jason wrote:
Some atheists also seem to also hate free speech.
You have what appears to be an example of someone getting into trouble
for sending a bulk email.
What does this have to do with your assertion?
You would have the read the article. George Washington speech's was
related to his love of God. It's my opinion that the atheists that
complained about the speech were upset because they did not want to
receive email messages about God so they wanted to get the professor fired
that sent them the email. Here is the speech that made the atheists so
upset.
Thanksgiving Proclamation
[New York, 3 October 1789]
Page Image.
By the President of the United States of America, a Proclamation.
Whereas it is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of
Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and
humbly to implore his protection and favor-- and whereas both Houses of
Congress have by their joint Committee requested me to recommend to the
People of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer to be
observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many signal favors of
Almighty God especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to
establish a form of government for their safety and happiness.
Now therefore I do recommend and assign Thursday the 26th day of November
next to be devoted by the People of these States to the service of that
great and glorious Being, who is the beneficent Author of all the good
that was, that is, or that will be-- That we may then all unite in
rendering unto him our sincere and humble thanks--for his kind care and
protection of the People of this Country previous to their becoming a
Nation--for the signal and manifold mercies, and the favorable
interpositions of his Providence which we experienced in the course and
conclusion of the late war--for the great degree of tranquility, union,
and plenty, which we have since enjoyed--for the peaceable and rational
manner, in which we have been enabled to establish constitutions of
government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national One
now lately instituted--for the civil and religious liberty with which we
are blessed; and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful
knowledge; and in general for all the great and various favors which he
hath been pleased to confer upon us.
and also that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and
supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech him to
pardon our national and other transgressions-- to enable us all, whether
in public or private stations, to perform our several and relative duties
properly and punctually--to render our national government a blessing to
all the people, by constantly being a Government of wise, just, and
constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed--to
protect and guide all Sovereigns and Nations (especially such as have
shewn kindness unto us) and to bless them with good government, peace, and
concord--To promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and
virtue, and the encrease of science among them and us--and generally to
grant unto all Mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as he alone
knows to be best.
Given under my hand at the City of New York the third day of October in
the year of our Lord 1789.
Go: Washington
Hmm. This doesn't offend me. So this disproves your assertion that
he was fired because atheists complained: he was obviously fired for
sending out spam.
Martin
.
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| User: "Don Martin" |
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| Title: Re: Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
14 May 2007 09:10:05 PM |
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On Mon, 14 May 2007 16:33:17 -0700, (Jason) wrote:
In article <ji52i.21518$JZ3.19284@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net>,
bm1@nonespam.com wrote:
Jason wrote:
Some atheists also seem to also hate free speech.
You have what appears to be an example of someone getting into trouble
for sending a bulk email.
What does this have to do with your assertion?
You would have the read the article. George Washington speech's was
related to his love of God.
There you are wrong. What Washington believed or loved can be found
only in his _private_ writings, not in his public utterances.
I suspect the twerp who sent the email made the same blunder.
Through a jaundiced eye darkly--rheum with a view.
The Squeeky Wheel
http://home.comcast.net/~drdonmartin/
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
14 May 2007 05:36:34 PM |
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On Mon, 14 May 2007 16:33:17 -0700, in alt.atheism ,
(Jason) in
<Jason-1405071633180001@66-52-22-15.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote:
In article <ji52i.21518$JZ3.19284@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net>,
bm1@nonespam.com wrote:
Jason wrote:
Some atheists also seem to also hate free speech.
You have what appears to be an example of someone getting into trouble
for sending a bulk email.
What does this have to do with your assertion?
You would have the read the article. George Washington speech's was
related to his love of God. It's my opinion that the atheists that
complained about the speech were upset because they did not want to
receive email messages about God so they wanted to get the professor fired
that sent them the email. Here is the speech that made the atheists so
upset.
You left out that the professor also had a link to an evangelical web
site. He was using the email system to evangelize. You agree with his
views, so you support his evangelizing. You don't like the atheist
views, so you object to their right to be free of evangelizing.
[snip]
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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| User: "Jason" |
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| Title: Re: Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
14 May 2007 07:21:46 PM |
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In article <80ph43latafpgjkdds0g49nujd5kmr6qqs@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
On Mon, 14 May 2007 16:33:17 -0700, in alt.atheism ,
(Jason) in
<Jason-1405071633180001@66-52-22-15.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote:
In article <ji52i.21518$JZ3.19284@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net>,
bm1@nonespam.com wrote:
Jason wrote:
Some atheists also seem to also hate free speech.
You have what appears to be an example of someone getting into trouble
for sending a bulk email.
What does this have to do with your assertion?
You would have the read the article. George Washington speech's was
related to his love of God. It's my opinion that the atheists that
complained about the speech were upset because they did not want to
receive email messages about God so they wanted to get the professor fired
that sent them the email. Here is the speech that made the atheists so
upset.
You left out that the professor also had a link to an evangelical web
site. He was using the email system to evangelize. You agree with his
views, so you support his evangelizing. You don't like the atheist
views, so you object to their right to be free of evangelizing.
[snip]
Matt,
If I was a professor at a college and received an email from a fellow
professor that was an atheist and was a member of an atheist
organization--I would not start a campaign to get that professor fired
even if the message was offensive to me. I believe in free speech.
jason
.
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
14 May 2007 08:47:30 PM |
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Jason wrote:
If I was a professor at a college and received an email from a fellow
professor that was an atheist and was a member of an atheist
organization--I would not start a campaign to get that professor fired
even if the message was offensive to me. I believe in free speech.
jason
It might not be a free speech issue. Not all speech is constitutionally
protected.
.
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| User: "cactus" |
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| Title: Re: Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
14 May 2007 07:01:56 PM |
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Jason wrote:
In article <80ph43latafpgjkdds0g49nujd5kmr6qqs@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
On Mon, 14 May 2007 16:33:17 -0700, in alt.atheism ,
(Jason) in
<Jason-1405071633180001@66-52-22-15.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote:
In article <ji52i.21518$JZ3.19284@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net>,
bm1@nonespam.com wrote:
Jason wrote:
Some atheists also seem to also hate free speech.
You have what appears to be an example of someone getting into trouble
for sending a bulk email.
What does this have to do with your assertion?
You would have the read the article. George Washington speech's was
related to his love of God. It's my opinion that the atheists that
complained about the speech were upset because they did not want to
receive email messages about God so they wanted to get the professor fired
that sent them the email. Here is the speech that made the atheists so
upset.
You left out that the professor also had a link to an evangelical web
site. He was using the email system to evangelize. You agree with his
views, so you support his evangelizing. You don't like the atheist
views, so you object to their right to be free of evangelizing.
[snip]
Matt,
If I was a professor at a college and received an email from a fellow
professor that was an atheist and was a member of an atheist
organization--I would not start a campaign to get that professor fired
even if the message was offensive to me. I believe in free speech.
jason
You might, depending on the nature of the post. And I think the guy is
getting what he deserves - I have a right to be free from other people's
religion in my work if I so choose.
.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
14 May 2007 07:08:57 PM |
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On Mon, 14 May 2007 17:21:46 -0700 there was an Ancient
Jason@nospam.com (Jason) who stoppeth one in alt.atheism
Matt,
If I was a professor at a college and received an email from a fellow
professor that was an atheist and was a member of an atheist
organization--I would not start a campaign to get that professor fired
even if the message was offensive to me. I believe in free speech.
jason
How about if the professor was spamming dozens of people with the same
unwanted message?
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2011
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the
source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a
stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as
good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
.
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| User: "Jason" |
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| Title: Re: Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
14 May 2007 08:22:21 PM |
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In article <5guh43hoqjciij0d2uv9snfftb0hsktesr@4ax.com>, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
On Mon, 14 May 2007 17:21:46 -0700 there was an Ancient
Jason@nospam.com (Jason) who stoppeth one in alt.atheism
Matt,
If I was a professor at a college and received an email from a fellow
professor that was an atheist and was a member of an atheist
organization--I would not start a campaign to get that professor fired
even if the message was offensive to me. I believe in free speech.
jason
How about if the professor was spamming dozens of people with the same
unwanted message?
Same way. They should just delete the SPAM. I delete over a 100 spam
messages per day.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2011
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the
source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a
stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as
good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
.
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| User: "Don Kresch" |
|
| Title: Re: Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
14 May 2007 09:00:04 PM |
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In alt.atheism On Mon, 14 May 2007 18:22:21 -0700,
(Jason) let us all know that:
In article <5guh43hoqjciij0d2uv9snfftb0hsktesr@4ax.com>, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
On Mon, 14 May 2007 17:21:46 -0700 there was an Ancient
(Jason) who stoppeth one in alt.atheism
Matt,
If I was a professor at a college and received an email from a fellow
professor that was an atheist and was a member of an atheist
organization--I would not start a campaign to get that professor fired
even if the message was offensive to me. I believe in free speech.
jason
How about if the professor was spamming dozens of people with the same
unwanted message?
Same way. They should just delete the SPAM.
Or maybe--just maybe--the spam shouldn't have been sent in the
first fucking place. Ever think of that?
Don
---
aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"
.
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| User: "Geoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
14 May 2007 08:50:42 PM |
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Jason wrote:
In article <5guh43hoqjciij0d2uv9snfftb0hsktesr@4ax.com>, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
On Mon, 14 May 2007 17:21:46 -0700 there was an Ancient
Jason@nospam.com (Jason) who stoppeth one in alt.atheism
Matt,
If I was a professor at a college and received an email from a
fellow professor that was an atheist and was a member of an atheist
organization--I would not start a campaign to get that professor
fired even if the message was offensive to me. I believe in free
speech. jason
How about if the professor was spamming dozens of people with the
same unwanted message?
Same way. They should just delete the SPAM. I delete over a 100 spam
messages per day.
I know you haven't worked a day in the real world, but mail servers owned by
organizations, including schools, are the property of the organizations.
.
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| User: "Jason" |
|
| Title: Re: Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
14 May 2007 10:42:35 PM |
|
|
In article <YN6dnc09xZlujNTbnZ2dnUVZ_qSrnZ2d@giganews.com>, "Geoff"
<gebobs@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote:
Jason wrote:
In article <5guh43hoqjciij0d2uv9snfftb0hsktesr@4ax.com>, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
On Mon, 14 May 2007 17:21:46 -0700 there was an Ancient
Jason@nospam.com (Jason) who stoppeth one in alt.atheism
Matt,
If I was a professor at a college and received an email from a
fellow professor that was an atheist and was a member of an atheist
organization--I would not start a campaign to get that professor
fired even if the message was offensive to me. I believe in free
speech. jason
How about if the professor was spamming dozens of people with the
same unwanted message?
Same way. They should just delete the SPAM. I delete over a 100 spam
messages per day.
I know you haven't worked a day in the real world, but mail servers owned by
organizations, including schools, are the property of the organizations.
That is true. However, if he has evidence (eg downloads of email message)
that other professors sent emails unrelated to college issues--I hopes he
wins the case and gets his job back.
.
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| User: "Mike" |
|
| Title: Re: Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
14 May 2007 10:06:52 PM |
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On May 14, 11:42 pm, (Jason) wrote:
In article <YN6dnc09xZlujNTbnZ2dnUVZ_qSrn...@giganews.com>, "Geoff"
That is true. However, if he has evidence (eg downloads of email message)
that other professors sent emails unrelated to college issues--I hopes he
wins the case and gets his job back.
I am hearing an awful lot of speculation and very few facts. You
seem to have heard this and assumed that and inferred other
things.... Without more info how the hell can anybody decide whether
the guy should win the case and get his job back.
.
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| User: "Jason" |
|
| Title: Re: Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
14 May 2007 11:57:09 PM |
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In article <1179198412.571564.185090@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, Mike
<matmzc@hofstra.edu> wrote:
On May 14, 11:42 pm, (Jason) wrote:
In article <YN6dnc09xZlujNTbnZ2dnUVZ_qSrn...@giganews.com>, "Geoff"
That is true. However, if he has evidence (eg downloads of email message)
that other professors sent emails unrelated to college issues--I hopes he
wins the case and gets his job back.
I am hearing an awful lot of speculation and very few facts. You
seem to have heard this and assumed that and inferred other
things.... Without more info how the hell can anybody decide whether
the guy should win the case and get his job back.
I doubt if a lawyer would have accepted his case if there was no evidence
to support the professor's case.
.
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
15 May 2007 09:01:24 AM |
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Jason wrote:
In article <1179198412.571564.185090@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
Mike <matmzc@hofstra.edu> wrote:
On May 14, 11:42 pm, (Jason) wrote:
In article <YN6dnc09xZlujNTbnZ2dnUVZ_qSrn...@giganews.com>, "Geoff"
That is true. However, if he has evidence (eg downloads of email
message) that other professors sent emails unrelated to college
issues--I hopes he wins the case and gets his job back.
I am hearing an awful lot of speculation and very few facts.
You seem to have heard this and assumed that and inferred other
things.... Without more info how the hell can anybody decide whether
the guy should win the case and get his job back.
I doubt if a lawyer would have accepted his case if there was no
evidence to support the professor's case.
First off, I cannot see where any lawyer has taken the case.
Second, I certainly would expect that a lawyer, probably furnished by FIRE,
to be this fellow's advocate is it ever comes to a lawsuit. There is
undoubtedly evidence for both viewpoints and it is the job of the lawyers to
advocate THEIR INTERPRETATION for the judges or juries.
You seem to be under the opinion that the mere fact that a lawyer is willing
to take a case that he is innocent of the charges. That is completely naive.
.
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| User: "Mike" |
|
| Title: Re: Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
14 May 2007 11:11:48 PM |
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On May 15, 12:57 am, (Jason) wrote:
In article <1179198412.571564.185...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, Mike
<mat...@hofstra.edu> wrote:
On May 14, 11:42 pm, (Jason) wrote:
In article <YN6dnc09xZlujNTbnZ2dnUVZ_qSrn...@giganews.com>, "Geoff"
That is true. However, if he has evidence (eg downloads of email message)
that other professors sent emails unrelated to college issues--I hopes he
wins the case and gets his job back.
I am hearing an awful lot of speculation and very few facts. You
seem to have heard this and assumed that and inferred other
things.... Without more info how the hell can anybody decide whether
the guy should win the case and get his job back.
I doubt if a lawyer would have accepted his case if there was no evidence
to support the professor's case.
LOL!!! Have you ever met a lawyer? As I said, without more info it
is hard to judge.
.
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
15 May 2007 08:53:12 AM |
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Mike wrote:
On May 14, 11:42 pm, (Jason) wrote:
In article <YN6dnc09xZlujNTbnZ2dnUVZ_qSrn...@giganews.com>, "Geoff"
That is true. However, if he has evidence (eg downloads of email
message) that other professors sent emails unrelated to college
issues--I hopes he wins the case and gets his job back.
I am hearing an awful lot of speculation and very few facts. You
seem to have heard this and assumed that and inferred other
things.... Without more info how the hell can anybody decide whether
the guy should win the case and get his job back.
Bingo!
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
|
| Title: Re: Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
14 May 2007 06:37:38 PM |
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On Mon, 14 May 2007 17:21:46 -0700, in alt.atheism ,
(Jason) in
<Jason-1405071721470001@66-52-22-15.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote:
In article <80ph43latafpgjkdds0g49nujd5kmr6qqs@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
On Mon, 14 May 2007 16:33:17 -0700, in alt.atheism ,
(Jason) in
<Jason-1405071633180001@66-52-22-15.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote:
In article <ji52i.21518$JZ3.19284@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net>,
bm1@nonespam.com wrote:
Jason wrote:
Some atheists also seem to also hate free speech.
You have what appears to be an example of someone getting into trouble
for sending a bulk email.
What does this have to do with your assertion?
You would have the read the article. George Washington speech's was
related to his love of God. It's my opinion that the atheists that
complained about the speech were upset because they did not want to
receive email messages about God so they wanted to get the professor fired
that sent them the email. Here is the speech that made the atheists so
upset.
You left out that the professor also had a link to an evangelical web
site. He was using the email system to evangelize. You agree with his
views, so you support his evangelizing. You don't like the atheist
views, so you object to their right to be free of evangelizing.
[snip]
Matt,
If I was a professor at a college and received an email from a fellow
professor that was an atheist and was a member of an atheist
organization--I would not start a campaign to get that professor fired
even if the message was offensive to me. I believe in free speech.
How about if the professor was pushing Satanism? And I will remind you
that good Christians have pushed for Wiccans to be fired from schools.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jason" |
|
| Title: Re: Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
14 May 2007 08:00:06 PM |
|
|
In article <eksh43h9pkpci6mlob637het3sjfd0foqi@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
On Mon, 14 May 2007 17:21:46 -0700, in alt.atheism ,
(Jason) in
<Jason-1405071721470001@66-52-22-15.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote:
In article <80ph43latafpgjkdds0g49nujd5kmr6qqs@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
On Mon, 14 May 2007 16:33:17 -0700, in alt.atheism ,
(Jason) in
<Jason-1405071633180001@66-52-22-15.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net> wrote:
In article <ji52i.21518$JZ3.19284@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net>,
bm1@nonespam.com wrote:
Jason wrote:
Some atheists also seem to also hate free speech.
You have what appears to be an example of someone getting into trouble
for sending a bulk email.
What does this have to do with your assertion?
You would have the read the article. George Washington speech's was
related to his love of God. It's my opinion that the atheists that
complained about the speech were upset because they did not want to
receive email messages about God so they wanted to get the professor fired
that sent them the email. Here is the speech that made the atheists so
upset.
You left out that the professor also had a link to an evangelical web
site. He was using the email system to evangelize. You agree with his
views, so you support his evangelizing. You don't like the atheist
views, so you object to their right to be free of evangelizing.
[snip]
Matt,
If I was a professor at a college and received an email from a fellow
professor that was an atheist and was a member of an atheist
organization--I would not start a campaign to get that professor fired
even if the message was offensive to me. I believe in free speech.
How about if the professor was pushing Satanism? And I will remind you
that good Christians have pushed for Wiccans to be fired from schools.
I would not be offended by the emails. If I was a teacher in a state high
school or grade school and found out a teacher was teaching the students
Satanism--I would tell the principal. If the principal did not do anything
about it, I would probably write a letter to each member of the school
board. If Christians can's teach about Jesus, the advocates of Satanism
and other religion can't teach students about their religions.
Jason
.
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| User: "Geoff" |
|
| Title: Re: Proof: Some Atheists Hate Christians |
14 May 2007 08:49:01 PM |
|
|
Jason wrote:
I would not be offended by the emails. If I was a teacher in a state
high school or grade school and found out a teacher was teaching the
students Satanism--I would tell the principal. If the principal did
not do anything about it, I would probably write a letter to each
member of the school board. If Christians can's teach about Jesus,
the advocates of Satanism and other religion can't teach students
about their religions.
Jason
But you oppose this firing which was probably not just because it was a
mildly religious message. What a hypocrite.
.
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