Proving a negative



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Fester"
Date: 04 Dec 2004 05:42:11 AM
Object: Proving a negative
It's often been said that one cannot prove a negative. I take this bit of
conventional wisdom to mean that one cannot prove that some event did not
happen. While certainly true for *some* negative hypotheses I cannot see
where this axiom is universally applicable. Just about all proofs are have
some degree of certainty, some are more certain than others. For example,
one can prove that Thomas Jefferson existed, but since none of us knew him
personally we cannot be entirely certain that he isn't some widely shared
fictional character. In the area of physicis, for example, one prove that
gravity exists with a high degree of certainty, but there is still the
possibility of a miniscule amount of doubt (perhaps some unseen,
all-powerful joker moves the pencil when you drop it, and maintains the
orbits of celestial bodies to make it look like gravity).
We've all heard of the Noah's Ark fable. Believe it or not, some people
actaully think that it is true. If I were to prove that this story could
not have happened with as much certainty as say a proof that Jefferson
indeed existed, will I in fact have proven a negative? I'll be glad to
provide several such proofs of the falsity of the Noah's Ark thing on
request, but I hardly think I need to present them to a rational audience to
make my point.
--
"Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgement; and
he betrays instead of serving you if he sacrifices it to your opinion"
Edmund Burke
.

User: "kathryn"

Title: Re: Proving a negative 04 Dec 2004 12:57:24 PM
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in message
news:nohsd.26804$Mu3.1690972@twister.southeast.rr.com...

It's often been said that one cannot prove a negative. I take this bit of
conventional wisdom to mean that one cannot prove that some event did not
happen. While certainly true for *some* negative hypotheses I cannot see
where this axiom is universally applicable. Just about all proofs are
have some degree of certainty, some are more certain than others. For
example, one can prove that Thomas Jefferson existed, but since none of us
knew him personally we cannot be entirely certain that he isn't some
widely shared fictional character. In the area of physicis, for example,
one prove that gravity exists with a high degree of certainty, but there
is still the possibility of a miniscule amount of doubt (perhaps some
unseen, all-powerful joker moves the pencil when you drop it, and
maintains the orbits of celestial bodies to make it look like gravity).

We've all heard of the Noah's Ark fable. Believe it or not, some people
actaully think that it is true. If I were to prove that this story could
not have happened with as much certainty as say a proof that Jefferson
indeed existed, will I in fact have proven a negative? I'll be glad to
provide several such proofs of the falsity of the Noah's Ark thing on
request, but I hardly think I need to present them to a rational audience
to make my point.


Anyone who really bothers to think about the whole noahs ark crap can see
how it simply cannot be true.
You cannot create a viable animal population from just 2 of each species.
The majority of those animals could not co exist together. The sheer
pratcically of having billions of animal species on boat, please..... The
fact that certain animals only exist in certain countries, when they should,
if Noahs ark is true be found all over, since last time I checked kangaroos
can't swim...
Kathryn
.
User: "Rv Cloim"

Title: Re: Proving a negative 04 Dec 2004 04:22:06 PM
On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 18:57:24 +0000, kathryn wrote:


"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in message

<snip>

I'll be glad to
provide several such proofs of the falsity of the Noah's Ark thing on
request...

<snip>

if Noahs ark is true be found all over,
since last time I checked kangaroos can't swim...

Kathryn

That just proves that Noah's ark landed in Australia.
Hmmm, what's the tallest mountain in Oz?
Need to send an expedition of fundamentalists to Mount Kosciuszko for
further investigation...
.


User: "Russell Turpin"

Title: Re: Proving a negative 04 Dec 2004 10:58:14 AM
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote:

It's often been said that one cannot prove
a negative. ..

Typically by people who haven't studied logic.
Most who assert this boldly have no notion of
what it would take even to define what a
"negative" is. Think it's trivial? Which of
these statements are a "negative"? Which are
therefore impossible to prove?
* Every crow hatched from an egg.
* No man hatched from an egg.
* Except for 2 and 3, there are no consecutive
prime numbers.
* Every prime number greater than 2 is odd.
* Gorbachev was not president of the US.
.

User: "CQMMAN"

Title: Re: Proving a negative 04 Dec 2004 10:05:39 AM
Fester <not@home.com> wrote:

We've all heard of the Noah's Ark fable. Believe it or not, some
people actaully think that it is true. If I were to prove that this
story could not have happened with as much certainty as say a proof
that Jefferson indeed existed, will I in fact have proven a negative?
I'll be glad to provide several such proofs of the falsity of the
Noah's Ark thing on request, but I hardly think I need to present
them to a rational audience to make my point.

IMO, you could establish beyond reasonable doubt that it can't have happened
as described in the bible, but you couldn't prove that there never was a man
called noah who created a boat and put some animals in it to escape a flood.
--
Saddam has continued to produce them, that he has existing and active
military plans for the use of chemical and biological weapons, which could
be activated within 45 minutes
- Tony Blair on Saddam 24/9/02
"For a century and a half now, America and Japan have formed one of the
great and enduring alliances of modern times."
George W Bush -Tokyo, Japan, Feb. 18, 2002
suicide bombing is not a belief
-CrazyAlec (internet spook)
"I hear there's rumors on the Internets"
- George W Bush -Oct. 9, 2004
Even today I am willing to volunteer to do the dirty work for Israel, to
kill as many Arabs as necessary, to deport them, to expel and burn them, to
have everyone hate us, to pull the rug from underneath the feet of the
Diaspora Jews, so that they will be forced to run to us crying. Even if it
means blowing up one or two synagogues here and there, I don't care.
-- Ariel Sharon, interviewed by Amos Oz (published in the Israeli daily
Davar, DEC 17, 1982
.


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